Talk:Tropical Storm Nadine (2024)

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	This article was accepted from this draft on 23 October 2024 by reviewer Tavantius (talk · contribs).

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Impact

I believe that we should start on the impact section once publishers state what happened as it already made landfall. BoppySillyMcGoof (talk) 00:59, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That will undoubtedly happen (Sunday morning) once wind and rain impact reports are published by the media. Drdpw (talk) 01:14, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hey, I mean... Do you want to start on it? BoppySillyMcGoof (talk) 01:18, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There is nothing to start yet; be patient. Drdpw (talk) 01:28, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, I have a tendency to rush things as I get overexcited. BoppySillyMcGoof (talk) 01:30, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Under review!

I think that it’s sufficient enough to be an article right now. LemonJuiceIsSour (talk) 23:07, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In all honesty; I have to concur with @LemonJuiceIsSour. This certainly seems to be notable enough in my opinion; although whether or not it gets accepted by AfC I don’t know; there might still need to be some cleanup. But five people died; it made landfall with likely at least some damage. It would be notable enough by my books. Hurricane Clyde 🌀^{my talk page!} 02:22, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

yay you agreed with me :)

Yes, it’s true that it needs some cleanup, but, overall, I think it’s good enough to be an article currently. LemonJuiceIsSour (talk) 02:25, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Which; that said @LemonJuiceIsSour, I’m not an AFC reviewer; so I of course can’t accept it, and I can’t say for sure that it’ll be accepted. I am going to ping @Hurricanehink into this conversation though. Just to get a second opinion on whether or not it is notable enough. Hurricane Clyde 🌀^{my talk page!} 02:32, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Well… the second opinion is kinda a moot point now. The AFC was accepted. Hurricane Clyde 🌀^{my talk page!} 16:22, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry I took too long! ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 17:45, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Merge Kristy and Nadine

Kristy and Nadine are closely related tropical cyclones and neither would have an article too large as Kristy is a fish storm while Nadine was a weak tropical storm. However, they do bring their own information to the table: Nadine gives Kristy a history while Kristy would expand meteorological history. (Pinging @Drdpw, @Jasper Deng, and @JayTee32 due to involvement on discussion at the wikiproject) ✶Qux yz ✶ 01:44, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I would still prefer that Kristy gets its own article as readers are unlikely to be interested in both at once.--Jasper Deng (talk) 01:47, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support, as you can't tell the story of either storm without the other. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 01:55, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes you can, there are plenty of systems like Kristy and Nadine that don't share the same article even when one's remnants led to the formation of the other, and that's the only connection they share with each other unlike systems like Amanda and Cristobal, for example, that shared other aspects as well like region impacted and damages caused. ABC paulista (talk) 03:27, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Slight Oppose, I'd prefer that each system to be contained in their own spaces, but I don't mind much about the merging as long as we make it clear that they aren't officially considered to be the same system. ABC paulista (talk) 03:53, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose, Kristy is not going to have an impact on land so it’s unnecessary to include it with Nadine even if they have a shared meteorological history. I think we just need to leave Nadine and Kristy separately.IrishSurfer21 (talk) 13:36, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Neutral - These are two different types of storms, even though Nadine became Kristy - Nadine affected Central America and Belize as a weak tropical storm, but Kristy has peaked as a Category 5 and is not expected to affect any land.

However, they are the same storm technically… AwesomeAndEpicGamer (talk) 02:00, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I am changing my vote to Support after reading the discussion desc — merging the two in one could make the article bigger and more interesting.

AwesomeAndEpicGamer (talk) 02:06, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

They aren't considered the same system since by NHC since they stated that Nadine's LLC dissipated over land prior to its crossing, and on a later outlook the stated that the low that became Kristy is partially related to Nadine's remnants. Both indicate indirect connections, not direct ones. ABC paulista (talk) 03:35, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This point exactly. MarioProtIV (^talk/_contribs) 04:06, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support – Numerous media reports directly connect the remnants of Nadine with the formation of Kristy; official season summaries and TCRs likely will as well, I'm sure. A combined Nadine–Kristy article would have notability, and a depth that the Nadine article lacks due to its small-scale infrastructure impact, and a separate Kristy article would lack due to it being a Category 5 fish storm without any records or land affects. Drdpw (talk) 02:16, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I seriously doubt it. They don't consider official crossovers in systems which the low-level circulation dissipated during the crossing, and since they stated that Nadine's dissipated before redeveloping into Kristy, unless they state that the surface circulation actually survived crossing into the Pacific, they'll most likely be treated as distinct systems and their BT points will be disconnected from each other, like the disconnection that happened between Amanda and Cristobal's lives during operational and best track datas. ABC paulista (talk) 03:49, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose – This is a vastly different situation then Amanda/Cristobal. Each are notable to their own and do not need to be mindlessly combined into one article. Amanda/Cristobal was because land impacts were too close together to distinctly seperate them enough. Here, Nadine and Kristy are two different sides of the same coin. If this thought process is what is being used, then we should merge every Atlantic to Pacific regeneration storm because of this. Cat 5 fishspinners particularly in the EPac can have all their content fit nicely within the season page itself. Also, as a note, the NHC did not even mention Nadine in their first advisory for Kristy, and even k the days leading up it was said a TC could form in parts due to Nadine’s remnants, not directly from the MLC. The BT have 2 TD points at the start is likely not correct either and someone probably left it in. Either way, from what we can gather, the explicit connection between the two has not been made official yet by a NHC TCR. --MarioProtIV (^talk/_contribs) 04:03, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If the TCR mentioned the connection, would you change to support? ✶Qux yz ✶ 12:38, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose as per MarioProtIV's reasons. Unless the TCR explicitly makes the connection between the two, they should be considered as two separate systems. If we use the original argument, wouldn't that also make the case for 11E and Milton to be merged (albeit a weak one), as 11E also gave it some history? Regards, 👦 06:56, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose, two different tropical cyclones even if they are connected, and because I think Kristy shouldn't have its own article - at least while its notability remains indeterminate. Java Hurricane 07:40, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support they are the same system. 66.206.125.66 (talk) 11:47, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose your words, They are not the same system. LemonJuiceIsSour (talk) 12:07, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Creator of both articles (whatever) I think that they should be merged overall - --LemonJuiceIsSour (talk) 12:23, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Put Support then if you agree with the idea. Insendieum ✉️ 13:18, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support, I agree with Hurricanehink here 🍋 🍋(talk!) 13:54, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. 🍋 🍋(talk!) 15:02, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@LemonJuiceIsSour, for future reference, you are only supposed to !vote once. If you change your !vote, strikethrough earlier !vote(s). Drdpw (talk) 15:12, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

oop then I won’t vote then until I figure this out so 🍋 🍋(talk!) 15:13, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose in absence of reliable sources explicitly confirming Kristy was a direct regeneration of Nadine. As pointed out above, NHC explicitly said Nadine's low-level circulation center dissipated over land (when the requirement for an Atl/EPac crossover is the LLCC surviving), and they indicated the low-pressure area that became Kristy was only partially related to Nadine's remnants. In NHC's last discussion on Nadine, they said they expected pre-Kristy to be a "new low pressure system" formed from "the combination of the remnants of Nadine and influences from a Gulf of Tehuantepec gap wind event"; there was also no mention of Nadine in NHC's first discussion on Kristy. This is enough evidence that NHC considers Kristy and Nadine to be separate systems, and on this encyclopedia we defer to what our reliable sources say. A sentence in this article like "Nadine's remnants later contributed to the formation of Category 5 Hurricane Kristy in the Northeastern Pacific" would suffice (no matter whether Kristy has its own article or not). ~ KN2731 {talk · contribs} 14:59, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Title

What should the title of the merged article be called?

✶Qux yz ✶ 01:51, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Option 2 - "Tropical Storm Nadine and Hurricane Kristy" ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 01:55, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Also Option 2 Drdpw (talk) 01:58, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Option 2 as names like these should always go in chronological order. Option 1 doesn't follow the rule, Option 3 only applies to crossovers that were renamed when they entered a different basin (e.g. Hurricane Joan–Miriam), and Option 4 is only used for tropical cyclones that did not originate from the same system (e.g. Cyclones Judy and Kevin). _ZZ^Z 'S 03:04, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Option 2 LemonJuiceIsSour (talk) 03:41, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Option 2, per above. ABC paulista (talk) 03:54, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Option 2 just like above as Nadine formed before Kristy Crominance (talk) 11:07, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Option 2 – This makes more sense generally and there's 100% consensus on the 2nd option. SomeoneWiki04 (talk) 13:12, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Second option — Tropical Storm Nadine and Hurricane Kristy (like with Amanda and Cristobal)

AwesomeAndEpicGamer (talk) 02:09, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Second option looks to be the best, as it was Nadine that formed first. Vida0007 (talk) 03:02, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Second option as I really want to avoid another Amanda/Cristobal type of debate Jay Tee⛈️ 04:57, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]