I created {{User WPWA}}. It is functional but desperately needs attention from someone with a sense of style. As it stands I'm not even willing to put it on my own user page! Hesperian10:49, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
I think its inevitable that this WikiProject will be involved in article assessments. I've been involved in projects that run "their own" article assessment, and I've been involved in projects that piggyback on their parent WikiProjects for article assessment (e.g. WikiProject Australia) Personally, I very much prefer the former. What does everyone else think? Hesperian11:14, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
I like both ideas, but... what I'd really like to see is what we initially proposed early on and hasn't occured yet. A parent project that assesses and sub-categorises assessments overall (Australia-wide) and per child projects (project wide). I'll make a note to speak with the bot author's about our needs tomorrow when I get some time. If I recall correctly User:Golden Wattle made up an example table at the time but I don't remember where I saw it. Splitting the WA content off into it's own assesment group at this stage will only lower the overall WikiProject Australia assessment stats, or create two sets of assessments if we make use of both the WP:AUS template and a new WP:WA template on talk pages. I'll expand more on this tomorrow when I'm more alert :) – Longhair\talk11:39, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
My concern with the piggybacking approach is the rating of "importance" against a wider WikiProject's scope. If we had let WP:AUSTRALIA handle the article assessments for WP:BANKSIA, the article importance ratings would all be low, low, low. Admittedly that is not likely to be such a problem for this project. Hesperian11:49, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
I hear what you're saying, and somewhat agree. But I'm concerned that down the track, when every Australian state or territory has a WikiProject and performs their own assessments, the value of WP:AUS assessments will be zero. I've got a plan ahead, I just don't think I'm going to be in a position to provide the necessary code to get it working as I'd like to see. I can surely help spec it out though if you're keen to hear more.
I strongly concur with Longhair on this. I've long hoped to see all child project templates subsumed into an all-singing, all-dancing {{WP Australia}} (that is, a banner which can cater for every contingency). At present, there are four child projects which conduct assessments outside {{WP Australia}}: Geelong, Adelaide, Crimes and Banksia. This practise serves only to proliferate project banners on talk pages (a persistent point of concern at WP:COUNCIL, among other places), and likely dilutes WP:AUS statistics though exclusion. {{WP Australia}} can be utilised for the task anyways â I'm fairly certain {{WP India}} allows for dual assessment already.--cj | talk20:18, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
So that leaves Banksia. Adelaide assessments never really started; they were mistakingly initiated by a user unaware of {{WP Australia}}, which had only been set up a couple days or so earlier. --cj | talk22:01, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
(offtopic) As an initial response re WP:BANKSIA, I have updated {{WP Banksia}} to use the Australia assessment categories too. Articles tagged as X-Class Banksia articles are categorised into the X-Class Australia articles category; articles tagged as Top-importance Banksia articles are categorised as Mid-importance Australia articles; and articles tagged as High-, Mid- or Low-importance Banksia articles are categorised as Low-importance Australia articles. For an example see Talk:Banksia baueri. I'm reluctant to go any further that this in the absence of a fully-fledged dual assessment system, as I think small, well-defined projects like WP:BANKSIA have more need of, and make better use of, article assessments than great big projects like WP:AUS. i.e. with gazillions of articles, WP:AUS can only follow progress via broad statistics, whereas WP:BANKSIA can individually plot the progress of each of our 118 articles. Hesperian22:59, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
Hesperian makes a good point at my talk page. We're aiming from the top down in relation to assessments, when we should be aiming from the bottom up. More prominence is given to WP:AUS on the project template, than the project covering the article subject itself. The only problem with this 'bottom up' approach I see is we don't yet know where the bottom is, ie, WikiProjects are always expanding into new areas. I'm forced to rethink my approach to assessments now... it's time for a detailed look into the future so any changes we make now are scalable. – Longhair\talk02:02, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
I wouldn't have thought not yet knowing where the bottom is would be a problem. Rolling out a new subproject would merely require replacing
{{WP Australia | class = Bonza | importance = Nah}}
Before joining the project, I am interested to know how articles relating to this wikiproject and the WikiProject Perth will differentiate. Will there be criteria to follow to make sure people do not confuse the two? Is anything place/area outside the metropolitan area of Perth considered a part of this wikiproject? Thanks, --Ali K12:10, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
Broome, Western Australia surely wouldn't fall under the Perth WikiProject? I'm not sure how far the Perth metro area extends, but I'd hazard a guess to say anything lying outside of it would fall within this project's scope. – Longhair\talk12:15, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
hehe thats where the fun starts - there are scattered debates on various talk pages about this issue. Laying down the law now so theres no times wasting issues on this - Perth is the metro area of Perth local government areas (although some of them have parts outside the metro area) .
The answer to Ali K's question - all Perth project articles must be based on things in Perth metro area (as defined) andything 'outside' must default to wa project
maybe - unless there can be susbtantial parts of an article that relate to a Perth metro area issue place or Person.
Any border issues need to be ascertained - the weather is too muggy for lengthy debate about what constitutes Perth - we've been through it before... SatuSuro12:25, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
I would say that anything relating to solely the Perth metropolitan area, or any sub-unit of the above, falls under WP:PERTH - that's uncontroversial as that already is the case. With regards to people and entities that relate to all of Western Australia but are primarily based in or from Perth is something we'll probably need to discuss (esp with regard to history sections where people wandered all over the place with no respect whatsoever for the MRS that had not yet been designed :). Orderinchaos12:40, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
Somebody has already defined Perth as the 'child' of WP:WA. I believe a focus on cross ref and expansion of WA topics across many fields and disciplines can be coordinated u/ this umbrella. Some idle thoughts and blather on subjects
Wadjela definitions of place and name are a small part of the big picture almost entirely missing from Wikipedia.
Some people still define themselves as from Fremantle Western Australia. Certainly , country people would not identify Perth as their birthplace.
Roads are not the only connections in wikipedia. Transperth supplies up to date timetables. We have avoided some of the more difficult topics it would seem!?
'Perth' articles probably relate strongly to WP:WA while the reverse is not usually so. This can better coordinated from here.
Whadjuk history is largely 'unavailable' whereas nyungar and other aboriginal history is. Would like to see it incorporated, not sectioned off or addressed in the first para only. Our country, our history.
Perth has historically distanced itself from adjoining suburbs, even Northbridge, so it can mean CBD or greater metro to different readers.
With regards to your third point (re roads/Transperth) I'm not sure what you mean exactly? (I am interested, as it's something I can probably help with) Orderinchaos02:31, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
This may sound totally silly but hey just spent last 8 hours sitting(driving) in a bus(no aircond) but instead of defining this project scope in relation to perth should we just presume that any subject/person/event that somehow is west of the SA/NT border is part of this project and more specific projects then can choose what articles they support, aka perth choose what it thinks is a perth article if they overlap whats the problem. Gnangarra07:50, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
Towns, LGAs and suburbs of non-Perth metropolitan areas
Not sure whether these belong under the new project, or under Australian Places. Should we have a section for such entities in this project? Things that fall into this category are:
These belong under both WikiProjects. Oerhaps we should look at creating subpages for different aspects, e.g. /Places, to list available categories, templates, lists, relevant policies, resources, etc. Hesperian22:28, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
Support convenient subpage for above, which often reference each other, at Project and Category. Then 'People' which are great starting points for intra linking articles about art, culture, society, history, science, et cetera. (Please don't change West Perth, it is perfect.) Fred.e10:59, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
Hey, lets just walk first, some of us arent even crawling with it yet. There might be the info - but we have the occasional structural issues to sort out with those the other side of the Nullabor - also portals - to work well need a large number to naturally keep things rolling -many portals just die.. Better a project up and running after sorting through the issues of the project alone - ...SatuSuro01:30, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
It might be worthwhile figuring out what we need to achieve before a portal becomes viable. For example, how many "quality articles" (FA or GA) do we need to have before we can introduce an "article of the week/month" section? Hesperian01:35, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
As I mentioned to SatuSuro a day or so ago, lets walk before we run (to borrow his terminology :-). If we get this WikiProject up and running nicely, other states and territories can then use the WA WikiProject as a model to follow. – Longhair\talk01:41, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
My experience with the Indonesia portal (or non experience) is that its not worth exploring until we have sorted through all articles relative to wa that exist. When thats done and theyre assessed, that will be worth putting our flag up and trying for a portal then.SatuSuro
I'm open to the idea of portals for the states (I've even tested one for South Australia somewhere in my userspace), but agree with those above that this a tad bit down the track. Focus really needs to be on developing a structure for the project itself.--cj | talk02:01, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
Wiki-mateship (an observation)
One thing I admire about you WA blokes (apologies to any sheilas here :) is your close bond, your high communication rate, and apparent real life wiki-friendships which you carry over into real life. Other states just don't seem to have that kind of collaborative and inspiring effect happening, ie, most us us only interact when we step into each others' areas of expertise and need to clarify matters via talk pages. Perhaps this is why WA has become the first state to fly the WikiProject flag? Another reason I guess is that us easterners are a little more spread out. You guys are all somewhat local to each other I assume? – Longhair\talk01:59, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
I'd like to be able to attribute it to clean air and good surf, but I think this comes down to the unremarkable fact that we have one (in particular, maybe others too) editor who is constantly watching the big picture, working the talk pages, introducing people to each other, and generally functioning as the social glue that ensures we work together, rather than just working alongside each other. Hesperian02:24, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
I'd agree with this comment. Although we probably need to organise meetups like the Adelaide, Melbourne and Brisbane guys have :) Orderinchaos02:27, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
Drudgery
Anyone interested in getting on with the real stuff or sorting through articles - and establishing some policies and rules on that? SatuSuro02:48, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
Replying to myself here to add another point, the What links here feature is sometimes useful to locate articles that aren't yet categorised under the relevant categories. Worth exploring also. – Longhair\talk07:44, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
Well - anyone up on how we can utilise the WP Australia box to have a west australian tag inside that? We need to start on that.... at least - was well as making a general west australian project category...SatuSuro07:05, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
I'll add the WP:AUS template parameter later tonight if nobody else has by then. Meanwhile I'm giving this bottom up approach some more thought... – Longhair\talk07:38, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
Thanks any help is appreciated for those of us (?) bracing at the bit to put a wa stamp on things - I think the more important thinkers in on this project are probably celebrating the krikit win... :) SatuSuro07:44, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
I've cleared out Towns in Western Australia, Suburbs of Bunbury, Suburbs of Albany and Local Government Areas of Western Australia, and added WA numerous unrelated article talk pages on the way. If anyone wants a challenge - bays, headlands, national parks need to be done :) Off to bed for me. Orderinchaos16:29, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
I just tag the article with WA=yes, but noticed this has been rated as "start" class, I think its more a "B" class article either way this should be targeted/focused on/collaborative efforted whatever you want to call it and get it to at least A class. I think FA and front page in June should also be possible. Gnangarra08:25, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
The Western Australia article certainly needs another iconic image or two. Speaking from somebody that's never been there, the article should take us there. I agree with the upgrade from Start to B however. Some required images that spring to mind are the Pilbara area, and the Nullarbor. – Longhair\talk08:31, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
Correct. Areas west of the Nullarbor. WA has a lot more to expose than it's capital, Perth, which is what I'm getting at. – Longhair\talk08:39, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
The Western Australia article is the logical place to start, the article does need some pretty major improvements to get it to FA, including the images (as above) and more foot noteing.Hossen2708:41, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
Hummock grassland
This is perhaps a good time for me to plug my Triodia hummock grassland image; after all, about a third of W.A. looks like this. Hesperian10:46, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
Nice work! I've never actually been north or east within the state, hope to have money to do so for winter 2008 (I'm studying all next year) Orderinchaos09:33, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
Can someone with more knowledge than me of these matters have a look at this article? For an article about a WA primary industries company there seems to be an awful lot about some comparatively minor incident in Mauritania Orderinchaos14:18, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
Gn seems to have fixed this. Still pretty slight. Ah! Shall we call a section "Stubbies" short, embarrassing and hopefully on the way out! Fred.e16:57, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
Whilst adding wa=yes to the electorial district articles I nopticed that this or similar The seat in 2009 is expected to be retained by the Liberal Party. speculation is mentioned in the articles. As its speculation of public opinion in 2/3 years time should it be sourced or removed. Obviously if a retired premier wishes to provide me with campaign contributions and a telephone in case further consultations are needed I quite happily pretend I didnt notice these statements. Gnangarra14:52, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
Good observation :) IMO speculation should be removed from all articles as there's no way it can be verified ESPECIALLY as only five seats (all in Mining and Pastoral) will be left untouched by the 2007 electoral review (the near-complete abolition of the weighted system), by which the number of Perth seats will grow and several country seats will be merged. Orderinchaos15:36, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
Actually, don't worry too much about the content. Most of them are either pretty sparse (with some glaring inaccuracies, or what I would call time-specific references which only apply to the seat's present form and are not suitable commentary for past borders) or are plagiarised from Antony Green (I work by the principle that even acknowledging the source on Wiki doesn't get one around copyright - an original article needs to be written for all 57 present electorates plus numerous past ones that have existed. I'm working on histories for those for an off-Wiki project so can incorporate my work here). I'll get around to rewriting them all when I've gotten my suburb elaboration project completed and sorted out which format of politics box is best for the suburbs (see Template talk:Australian Politics Suburb for worked examples of the two different formats I've been mulling over) Orderinchaos17:33, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
If someone creates these, they second the motion to start articles and I will contribute. Add yr own or move to front page. Fred.e10:39, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
. For those that have missed previous notices. I'm spending the school holidays wandering around the Perth metro area if you have an desired images add them to the list at User:Gnangarra/Photo wish list, Today Maylands was the area, more uploads tonight. Gnangarra09:41, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
An addendum to the above - I'm going to be spending two days (tomorrow and Friday) in Mandurah-Pinjarra area, so if anyone wants anything let me know (I've already noted Moondyne's three requests). Mostly I'll be snapping the suburbs for suburb articles, and I'm trying to think if there's any notable monuments or memorials or anything else down there I should grab. I'll be doing some more outer northern photography on Saturday. (Somehow I don't see a "list of water towers in Perth" article emerging - it would be rather dry - pardon the terrible pun) Orderinchaos09:45, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
Per the previous section, we need an article on Ross McLarty. The tourist centre in Pinjarra has preserved Ross's parliamentary office. Might be worth a snap. Hesperian10:58, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
On behalf of us at the WA project I have welcomed and wished luck to the Victoria project - I am sure we all wish them well! SatuSuro13:53, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
Heritage refers to something which is inherited from one's ancestors. It has several different senses, including:
Cultural heritage, a nation's historic monuments, museum collections, etc.
Natural heritage, a nation's fauna and flora, natural resources, and landscape
Tradition, customs and practices inherited from ancestors
Substituting state for nation, of course! Themes like this could be a good way to develop high value links between articles. A new Heading? Fred14:08, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
Wikipedia Day Awards
Hello, all. It was initially my hope to try to have this done as part of Esperanza's proposal for an appreciation week to end on Wikipedia Day, January 15. However, several people have once again proposed the entirety of Esperanza for deletion, so that might not work. It was the intention of the Appreciation Week proposal to set aside a given time when the various individuals who have made significant, valuable contributions to the encyclopedia would be recognized and honored. I believe that, with some effort, this could still be done. My proposal is to, with luck, try to organize the various WikiProjects and other entities of wikipedia to take part in a larger celebrartion of its contributors to take place in January, probably beginning January 15, 2007. I have created yet another new subpage for myself (a weakness of mine, I'm afraid) at User talk:Badbilltucker/Appreciation Week where I would greatly appreciate any indications from the members of this project as to whether and how they might be willing and/or able to assist in recognizing the contributions of our editors. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker20:18, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
Current status of state projects
We now have another state project up and running -
so its:-
The template is in - its now a process of trying to come to agreement where and when is most convenient for those daring to meet face to face those strange names... SatuSuro18:01, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
Transwikis
Should our project be looking at articles on Western Australian subjects on other Wikipedias (at least, the ones we can read, anyway)? I just saw the articles for Perth and Western Australia on the Simple English wikipedia, one is, shall we say, a bit deficient while the other seems decent (although is only a lead sentence and history section) but has no referencing whatsoever, and looks to have been written by a very patriotic Hesperian (not our one). Orderinchaos09:35, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
Interesting looking at which Wikis are most popular (primarily by number of articles) - English is WAY out in front, then German, French, Polish, Japanese and Dutch. Spanish is 10th, Chinese 12th, Indonesian 22nd, while all the nordic languages and Esperanto are in the Top 20. Comically, Romanian (21st) feature article of the day is Lenin, and one of the other Eastern Bloc ones was Brezhnev. :) There's a MÄori one with 442 articles - gave me the idea we could have a Nyungar one someday Orderinchaos13:02, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
The frogs of Australia are well represented with photos in respect to most of Australia's fauna, with 35% represented with photos. However, a majority of these are from the eastern states, especially NSW, Vic and Tasmania. Western Australia has the lowest number of frog species with photos. Could everyone in WA with a camera be on the lookout for your local frogs, and upload them if it is a species we don't have, or you can't identify. Have a look through the new WA frog category to see if you can match your frog to any already there so we don't get a bunch of Motorbike Frogs to identify.
The three species I would really love photos of are the Turtle Frog (Myobatrachus gouldi), the Sandhill Frog (Arenophryne rotunda) and the Western Spotted Frog (Heleioporus albopunctatus). Thanks --liquidGhoul12:46, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
If they are like their relatives in eastern Australia, they are pretty much impossible to find when they are calling. Go out on a wet night, and some may be walking around looking for some food. Thanks. --liquidGhoul10:43, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
The West Australian (newspaper)
I've raised a proposal to fix this article (link), which is in a sad state. I think this should be one of our project's tasks, considering it is our state's premier newspaper (for better or worse). If you have any ideas or thoughts on what should be in this article, feel free to raise comment. Orderinchaos03:50, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
Hi
Hey I am keen to do what I can, I didnt even know this one existed I thought there was only Perth. how do I sign up?? DanielT505:39, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
Hi Daniel. There's no formal requirements - just look for anything that needs improving or look at some of our tasks that need doing on the main page. Glad to see another country Western Australian on - ironically most of the country article improvement drives have been coming from here in Perth. See also Wikipedia:Countering systemic bias if curious. Orderinchaos06:24, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
Article Improvement Drive
I think this would be a good idea, I saw it on a few other projects and also here and talked to Orderinchaos about it who thought it was worthwhile too. I suppose what you guys are doing with the West Australian is kind of the first one but should we make it a regular thing after that maybe? DanielT513:07, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
Wagerup
[1] - The edit seems very POV (pro-Alcoa) to me but being quite close to the article (I wrote the original wording three months ago), I'd rather someone else make the call on what to do with it. A back trace of the user's IP [2] suggests it may be an Alcoa employee. This is the only article they've edited apart from changing "town" to "city" (correctly) on the Transwa Australind article. Edits on this IP months ago were probably an unrelated user. Orderinchaos10:20, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
I reverted its significant but there is a need for a citation to support the claims of residents intending to fight the expansion in court. Gnangarra10:26, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
Yeah I noticed that one too - not entirely sure why I skipped that one as I do have a ref for it! Will check it to make sure it's still valid then whack it in. Orderinchaos10:27, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
One very big absence inthe Darling Scarp article is a good outline of the extensive anti Alcoa movement (No mining in Jarrah Forests - SWFDF and CSNF) in the years before they managed to get underway - unfortunately I have lost contact with a guy who has been through all the arhival material about that era and those groups that was part of his PhD :( SatuSuro14:20, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
It wouldn't be lurking around whatever uni he did his PhD at? At Curtin and Murdoch, for example, they have HEAPS of unpublished theses on the shelves or available by request. Orderinchaos14:32, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
Just occurred to me that the day had clicked over. I am amazed how much we have achieved in such a short time, it's a testament to all the great people here. Orderinchaos16:10, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
I reverted the bot edit to our page and added strike through. Amalas is not a participant of our project and the sudden absence might confuse some. Fred16:44, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
Good point - hadn't noticed that one! I can't believe I'm still up. I can't believe that I just spent an hour fixing up SmartRider, either. One wonders why a ticket type by a public transport authority in one city requires an entire article. :| Most of the Transperth articles demonstrate in full colour exactly why we have WP:CRYSTAL. Orderinchaos17:58, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
Left a few comments with 'them'. Good going btw. Sleep well. All is quiet now. Fred
Road articles come back and bite us again - seems that two competing standards have emerged for junctions. The original one was simply to note the suburb(s) in which the junctions occurred, while the other notes the destination of the road with which the junction occurs. I think both are potentially useful, but not sure how to resolve this one. Orderinchaos13:08, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
oh yay we saved it! I was so worried about that, sorry I went offline without announcement but I was in perth arranging accommodation and going to rural access days and stuff :| will be more active over the weekend! DanielT512:54, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
Which gave some misinformation about Wikipedia and more or less hams up on reversions(not even a reasonable edit war) - and the west cannot even cite their own sourcs for international stories - some great example! SatuSuro11:58, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
Interestingly inside cover rarely does followups on its own stuff... virtually impossible to 'have a go' at them.. SatuSuro10:00, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
I coud not resist and bought it today. I wonder who their source is? They may do a followup on Woodside or similar cases. Then again ... Fred10:49, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
hey I read that one and thought of you guys when I was on the bus yesterday :) Nice to know the West are onto this sort of thing, bet you there are other companies doing this all over Wikipedia as we speak... strange thing is I got into a convo with someone and they seemed to think this was quite expected for companies to be allowed to modify their own articles on wikipedia, I gave up trying to explain it to them :( DanielT512:56, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
Try random article searching for a few hours on end and see how many vanity, advertisement, and blatant crazy pages you can find per hour... It makes one reversion on wagerup lool like a beatup! SatuSuro13:06, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
Bias towards Eastern States
I was watching the SBS News tonight and they said the funniest and most stupid thing, apparently Western Australia has just passed South Australia in population. We had better change all article to reflect this, oh wait they already show this because it happened about 15 years ago (the story might be repeated at 9:30 if you want to have a look). Anther perfect example of lack of research and knowledge in the media. But it also got me thinking could we have an article on the bias in Australia towards the Eastern States, I cant count the number of times I have watched a show such as the 7:30 Report and politicians have listed states for some reason or another and always seem to stop at VIC, NSW and QLD. Any thoughts Hossen2712:01, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
I think they haven't forgiven us yet for overtaking Adelaide, however they're still hatching their evil plans to take over our companies and businesses, force us to watch NRL, sell our children into slavery and impose permanent daylight saving on us. (Reads best if you put a slightly evil, menacing tone into each "they" or "their") (Note that "they" is never defined, as all Eastern States are exactly the same) Orderinchaos15:38, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
Anyone with good knpowledge of wa history should know what it is that we need a good section or article on internal regional rivalries in western australia - forrest's era to now.... SatuSuro13:15, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
Howdy sandgropers! I'm a geologist currently working and living in WA. Aside from the usual struggle against vandals and whatnot, and general geology related problems, I've been steadily adding to WA related geology articles, such as;
I'll be trying to keep the ball rolling, but its a lot of work, but if you need anything spruced up or a geology related opinion on something in the WA project, drop a hoi on my talk page. Cheers, Rolinator13:34, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
Welcome - the whole australian project has so few geols on the job - you are welcome - and thanks for letting us know what youve been up to! Hope you enjoy your stay SatuSuro13:39, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
Good on ya, Rolinator. Could I suggest a laypersons explanation of the geological reasons for why the Stirlings and Porongorups are there? Thanks. Callophylla09:05, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
xxx, Perth
An editor has just ran into the railway station xxxx. Perth naming system - and started converting only to find the whole metro area station names have this moniker ( even the freo one which reads weird to say the least) - after the rather awkard re-name from a sock (which bothers me that such can happen) regarding all Perth arts - the issue that arises - what do we do with a whole heap of Perth railway stations? Are they in Perth? Western Australia? or are they stand alone unless the need to disambiguate occcurs? I eagerly await responses SatuSuro13:29, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
Thanks - but we have almost all the railway stations with the Perth moniker - should we continue the removal? viz – Fremantle railway station, Perth to Fremantle railway station ? BTW Wikipedia talk:Places of local interest has an interesting take on railway station articles :( SatuSuro00:25, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
I'd normally agree with Hesperian but for the fact this seems to be standard right across Australia, even if it is an odd system, e.g:
US have yet another system (eg Delray Beach (Amtrak station)) - always disambig. They just change "Amtrak" to whatever network the station is on (eg PATH for New York)
If there was a perceived need for a standard would probably need to go to WP:Trains - like the battles over railroad and railway - maybe somewhere in the Trains Portal a table would be the way to go - bit like the gauge variations all over the world...
But in the end - maybe we need to decide which precedent we follow in WA as there are quite a few existing and potential station articles to establish the convention for...SatuSuro01:01, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
I say drop the disambiguation and keep as "xxx railway station" as per normal Australian usage. Just because its been done elsewhere (inconsistently) doesn't make it right. Unless someone can point to a discussion and consensus I'll be moving them all (WA ones anyway). I'm not in a great hurry though. —Moondyne08:56, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
I've got no opinion either way on what it should be. The actual naming of the articles is immaterial so long as it's clear that it's an article for a railway station and there's no problems with disambiguation (i.e. no two the same) Orderinchaos10:12, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
Irrespective of the merits of either format (disambiguated or not, comma or parenthetical), I think that there should be consistency across Australian cities. In other words, there should be no whole scale change to WA stations without equivalent action to interstate stations.--cj | talk21:23, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
Quality
Haha oh dear, my liddle map of Hamersley is today's picture :) Makes up for having my power knocked out for two hours. It could be worse - most of the Wheatbelt has been out all late afternoon and evening and Mandurah and the western suburbs have been all over the place all day. Western Power and heat don't seem to be terribly compatible. Pity there wasn't a non-OR way to do a Major service disruptions in Western Australia article, starting with mid-May 1994 when most of Perth and the southwest lost power for 5 days. Orderinchaos13:18, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
Maybe a simple NPOV list, without commentary? :-) Tenterden fire, Feb 04 shutdown, pole fires every time it rains in summer, average brownouts per thunderstorm... (;-) Callophylla09:09, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
I have heard the comment we are one of the few places to put our power in the air and phone under the ground. The crackle of power poles is part of perth's soundscape, not that I will miss it.Fred14:58, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
The May 1994 disruption was instrumental in SECWA becoming Western Power later that year, I might try and find some stuff on that subject next week when I'm back in the Battye. Ironic that one of the reasons for the Hamersley Scheme was to put power under the ground, and the powers-that-be (mainly the SEC and the Town Planning Board) effectively blocked it. The confusing situation means that one tiny area of Greenwood north of Blackall Drive does have underground power, while the entire rest of the district does not. Orderinchaos15:17, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
Silly sports question
What do you call an unenclosed grassed oval laid out for AFL with night lights around it? It's probably something *very* obvious but it is not coming to me right now. Orderinchaos14:33, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
reserve comes to mind aka Ashfield reserve, normally the UBD/Streetsmart/shire have names for ovals of this size anyway. Gnangarra15:24, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
Convict fence in the Canning River
Does anyone have any information on the background of the so called "Convict fence" in the Canning River between Salter Point and Mumms Point, Shelley? I haven't been able to find anything firm. Local folklore when I was a kid in those parts was that it was built by convicts and used to assist with the floating of logs downstream from the mills in Kalamunda. I have no idea on the truth of this and would love to find out. —Moondyne14:08, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
Fred Carden's book, Along the Canning details some of it.[1] and so does McQueen in her 1963 thesis[2] and the City of Canning heritage inventory[3]
and Hutchison and Davidson book on the convict fence.
[4] and I almost forgot LePage's book too.[5]
Good Luck!
petedavo10:07, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
^Carden, F.G. Along the Canning: A History of the City of Canning Western Australia, Covering its progress from Roads Board to Shire, to Town, to City City of Canning, 1st Edition 1968, 2nd edition, 1991,
^McQueen, Jeanette 'Pioneers of the Canning District' thesis prepared for Graylands Teachers' College 1963, p.13.
^Detail from 'Municipal Heritage Inventory', City of Canning.
^Hutchison, D. and Davidson, D. 'The Convict Built "Fence" in the Canning River' Records of the Western Australian Museum Vol. 8 (1), 1979.
^J.S.H. LePage Building A State: The Story of the Public Works Department of Western Australia 1829-1985 Water Authority of Western Australia, Leederville, 1986, pp.211-
Snow falls
Listening to the radio(6PR) the Perth BOM has a collection of all official and unofficial recordings of snow falls in WA, According to the interview Wongan Hills is the furtherest north town with official recordings of Snow, and Coolgardie is the furtherest East. The falls have been recorded from April thru to November, I done some scrounging through the BOM site but theres no online information. Given that snow falls are unusual for most places in WA the event will be covered by Newspapers, or mentioned in LGA records if you come across any please list them on Wikipedia:WikiProject Western Australia/Snow Falls in WAGnangarra10:27, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
It seems when new users ( and red link users) find their favourite music/band not mentioned in the western australia, or perth western australia articles , they feel a great need to include it in the articles - consequently there is a regular change to the music sections in the mentioned articles - I am suggesting that in hidden text we have instructions to divert these enthusiasts to the music in wa article - any thoughts on this one? SatuSuro23:41, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
Haha I've been guilty of that one myself in my early Wiki days... doesn't sound like a bad suggestion to me, although to have any listed (especially if they're all older, or newer, or one style, or another) is practically inviting such edits. Orderinchaos10:34, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
There are some Perth music articles being consistently created in the background - but in most cases they are for a specific genre - this suggestion is across the board - whether punk, folk or even classical for that matter. SatuSuro07:11, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
Even more silly surf question
Anyone up on surf culture in the south west - have collected some info - and am contemplating some of the info pages on some web pages - but would be very interested if any west aust project members have the residual bleach in their hair, or wax between their toes to help iron out some ponderous information glitches between maps/ websites and surf break names - or any possible alternative info sources apart from the dreaded google first page - or the maps brought out by margaret river .com - I suspect a deafening silence but any clues would be appreciated...SatuSuro14:00, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
This would be a very good article, I would be happy to give you a hand with it. The surf culture down here is very strong in many aspects of the community, but im sorry to say there is very little residual bleach in my hair, or wax between my toes I have surfed a few time and im awful. I could also get a comprehensive list of surf spots, not just the one listed on various sites and maps. Hossen2700:02, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
I meant to mention the magazines like, er Tracks, was it?. Probably movies too for more unusable citations. It was an international (nomadic-romantic) culture so info may turn up from beyond our shores. Pretty sure the local names for bodies of water around beaches and reefs would be mentioned there. Fred11:34, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
As far as I can ascertain there are no index/archives of surf culture magazines - unless its blindingly obvious and I've missed it. The info is on current tourist maps - and web sites - the problem is nomenclature/consistency - which is why I am happy that Hossen27 has responded. Some maps and lists are not clear on which side of Margaret River mouth is which break and so on. It simply needs extra checks against anyone in the know before creating an article. SatuSuro07:09, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
Hi I am currently organising a list of surf spots in the cape to cape region (hopefully with coordinates). There are quite a few that are not mentioned anywhere and really only known to locals, i'm a local and i don't know a lot of them, surfers are very protective of good surf spots. I will post the list in a day or so. Hossen2707:39, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
Hamersley
Right - somewhat later than I'd hoped, I have finally got the first draft of the prose for Hamersley, Western Australia done (the pictures have largely been removed to the talk page until I can decide on appropriate placement once the prose is a good size). The initial comments coming back are that it is quite verbose - 50k with 69 references - the intention was to do more rather than less, then edit it down. Parts of it - especially the history - were written as short blocks, so may not flow or be in the wrong logical order. I'm not entirely happy with the prose in Demographics either, as it was necessary to keep comparing three or more different areas on the various statistics and got a bit tangled. Unfortunately I think I've got to the point where having written most of it, I am seeing what I was thinking, not what is actually there from an outsider point of view.
So if you see anything that could do with some snipping, reduction or rewriting, any obviously missing parts, etc, feel free to let me know on my talk page or that of the article. I'm hoping to be able to get it to second draft stage in a few days and then bring in a few of the other Australian editors before taking it to FAC. Orderinchaos16:00, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
Landgate (fmly Dept of Land Information, fmly Dept of Lands and Surveys); Treasury and Finance (DTF); Energy (office or dept? not sure); Department of Planning and Infrastructure (DPI) (which absorbed Transport); Local Government and Regional Development (DLGRD); Premier and Cabinet (DPC); Office of Shared Services (OSS) (Very interesting and controversial one with lots of recent media coverage!) off the top of my head. Orderinchaos16:34, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
It is very important to understand that the subsequent authorities that come under the umbrella of a department - as found in the government website - do confuse the average punter as to whether they constitute a department or whether they are bodies separate...
If anyone has a sense of masochistic self defeating enthusiasm (?) a table of departments with their earlier incarnations would be a world first (!) - state records office might have some solutions (see what we cited at Western Australian Government Railways re the earlier and later names) - it would seem some politicians or their yes persons must sit around waiting for the next opportunity to change a department or name.... SatuSuro23:04, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
I had always thought of an agency as a different sort of animal to a department. Hesp's link above includes Main Roads and Police within the agency list. —Moondyne23:19, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
Which is the very important isue I was trying to make the average person dosnt always pick up the diffs between agencies and depts SatuSuro23:20, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
OK, what is the difference? I think its that a department has a chief executive that reports directly to the responsible minister. An authority has an elected or appointed board which reports to the minister, and the chief executive reports to that board. Agency is a non-specific term for both. Am I close? —Moondyne23:27, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
Sorry - without looking to see if they actually make the diff on one of their websites - i thought it was the legislation - i thought a dept had an enabling act - while authorities only needed govt gazetal - Im probably wrong... SatuSuro23:33, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
Report from the minefield, part 356. (subsection 5, clause 2) - we must avoid even worrying about authorities - we just need to keep it simple with departments (current only) - anyone want detailed explanation - I will gladly email an explanation in detail - for wikipedia purposes - lets keep it simple SatuSuro00:57, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
However (part 357) :
Statutory Authorities - in almost all cases appear to require an enabling Act (and therefore the Parliamentary process involved with that)
Departments are usually created by the Governor In Council and by executive decision on advice from the then premier
However the status and position of government bodies within that framework is quite complicated - and there many complications occuring on this matter...and even government officers get it wrong.... :)
Consequently - for this reason I would not support Category:Government departments and agencies of Western Australia- it is clear which are departments on web sites and telepohne book lists etc - but the agencies are a minefiled best left out of the equation for the minute - or having a separate category (anything between 300 and 400 acccording to one source working in parliament house) SatuSuro01:24, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
Very good point - there are some authorities that appear to be departments or vice versa at times - with a name 'authority' - yet in the current phone directory FESA is in the department list...SatuSuro01:53, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
Government of Western Australia – Government departments of Western Australia
\\ // ||
Authorities of Western Australia ||
\\ ||
Government agencies of Western Australia
My thought would be something like this in structure, each with a main article that cover the way in which these are created and define. Gnangarra02:12, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
Oh dear - having the full knowledge of the complications about authorities and agencies I simply couldnt accept that - its not how they exist in their complicated realities... SatuSuro02:37, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
Good to see our highly esteemed local admin has his sense of humour with him this am - that would be enough to set the cat police in a murderous blind frenzy among the pigeons for the length of the title alone...
In reality it is very simple - (1) Govt depts (2) Agencies and all else - with known dept affiliations (3) Stand alone agencies - (ok someone is going to ask how to distinguish between 2 and 3, I can hear that) SatuSuro23:43, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
I like that - its consistent with the Federal structure and 'entities' is a good catchall phrase for anything that's not a department. Support —Moondyne00:35, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
Me too, except that it seems to me that a department is a government entity but not all entities are departments, so I don't know why the departments category isn't a subcat of the entities category, rather than the other way around. Hesperian00:46, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
To go back to what the parliamentary expert said yesterday - the creation is the rub - governor in council creates the depts - and parliament does the rest.... the cats and relationships - departments have more clout than the entities - or agencies as the telephone book has - so departments are not the same level or status as the entities so it is an error to think of them at the same level - as they have different processes creating/enabling their existence. SatuSuro01:23, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
I should have a few - I took literally hundreds of photos in my last trip to Pemberton in April 05, and I think the Augusta area is also karri? Orderinchaos11:35, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
Great! Thanks. Yes, Augusta is Karri. But even if it wasn't, I'd happily accept any decent photo of vegetation (as opposed to a single plant) within the region's boundaries. Hesperian11:40, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
Gawd surely there is a karri occurence map somewhere to prevent me giving you guys geographically challenged awards? THE boranup Karri forest- aka sand patch area is the best of the area - but there are still stands very close to augusta SatuSuro 11:57, 11 February 2007 (UTC) maybe try http://www.naturebase.net/content/view/906/1282/ for an idea SatuSuro12:02, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
For the big picture maybe - is still prefer the bottom picture at the page mentioned earlier SatuSuro
I was out walking to a place called Hillview Lookout about 7km west of Augusta and took many shots on the way there and back. The flies were something incredible. Orderinchaos12:04, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
Know it well - the views to the left at about 3 km is appropriate... - but also try around cape naturalise lighthouse on a still day - that is where the t-shirt with the logo 'relax in a state of excitement - a billion flies cannot be wrong' evolved I am sure - black backs... SatuSuro12:08, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
Check my flickr now - there should be 9 pics up. see one you want me to upload to commons, just give me the filename(s) (they're in a massive unsorted directory on my hard drive) Alternatively if none are suitable I have more. Orderinchaos12:23, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
Sweet. I'll take IMG_3081 for the vegetation section. And IMG_3078 for the geology section, as a rough indication of "dissected, undulating topography". Thanks again. Hesperian12:32, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
I was thinking of converting the "Specific goals" section of the project page into a "Vital articles" section (or subpage), a laWP:VITAL. What do you think? Hesperian01:12, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
Due to the myths about the solidity of the yilgarn block - the west australian earthquake article dosnt exist - just pathetic little mentions at meckering and cadoux - yet if this is an encyclopedia with enquirers about earthquakes like the shark bay one this morning - there's nothing to lead the enquirer to understanding the ubiquitousness (?) of earthquakes in western australian history - classic omission... SatuSuro01:38, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
Sorry H, we digress re the Vital WA articles. As a start, could we use the "I can't believe we don't have an article on...!" section on the project page? —Moondyne02:10, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
- I agree with moondyne - that we start from within the project as is - there are substantial areas of knowledge that readers/enquirers would find black holes like earthquakes in wa - and so on - I do have a problem with people lists - just because the daily rubbish gives us a list of people they deem important - I would be tempted to go for larger broader themes - earthquakes - fires - droughts - floods - which affect whole communities - rather than indicidual ego driven politicians - for instance - maybe the living treasures people deserve writeups - but I have a problem with a large amount of the vital list as it is - I do believe that we could create a list of articles and yet to be done articles that are unique to our project rather than an idealistic framewrok from the culturally biased list at Vital - but then, I could always be wrong... :) SatuSuro02:20, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
I wasn't proposing a new project or subproject, merely a subpage to avoid taking up too much space on the main project page. My concept of "vital articles" wasn't "vital articles that don't exist and why bloody not?!!!"; it was more "vital articles that this project should strive to make not suck". Think of them as the WA articles that we would rate importance=top if we had a WA rating system. i.e. the list would contain both redlinks and bluelinks. Yes, many of the vital articles would be on broader themes. No, I wasn't suggesting we should follow WP:VITAL in our article selection; we would judge for ourselves what topics are vital to coverage of Western Australia. Of the articles on the "I can't believe it's not butter" list, I can only make a case for Rischbeith and Salvado, and perhaps not even them. Hesperian02:34, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
File:100 most influential western australians.jpgList from the West's "100 Most Influential Western Australians", December 2006.The question is not so much who is on here that shouldn't be, more who isn't? BTW, the selection panel included Geoffrey Bolton, Jenny Gregory and Tom Stannage, so who am I to say they got it wrong? —Moondyne03:05, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
It looks suspiciously like the brass slabs on st georges terrace type list - the 150th list plus a few newbies... SatuSuro03:27, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
At least Fred's George is there - interestingly I would add dorothy hewett, gavin casey, henrietta drake brockman, before stanley - just shows what current notoriety does to latter - and i reckon battye before lukis- and I could go on... I would not have wanted to hear geoffrey jenny and tom sort through their eliminations - probably my olde school mate the lapsed editor had the casting vote :( SatuSuro03:42, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
I've added substantial content to the Mount Barker, WA page. There's still work to do including formatting, linking and images but the basics are there. More content will be added soon - but It's 2am now so I'm off to bed :) --AndrewD MBarker17:13, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
Placed here and at the article talk page as well...
The range of groups relative to environmental issues in western australia fromthe 1970s to the present is non-existent on wikipedia - and I have privately signalled to a number of other editors that articles that are needed - however this group is one of about up to 10 that are notable - but they all lack a good overview history (although there might be one completed phd at murdoch that might cover aspects of the issues) and also the groups themselves tend to hand over their records to the state ref library (battye) and few if any members ever have either the interest to write reviews of their decades or attempt to provide adequate summaried of activities within the western australian political and social context... the w.a. conservation council even has had a professional historian as an office bearer - but I am unaware of any of the groups being sufficiently resourced or reflexive of their place in wa society.... I'd only hope that it was otherwise - but knowing the rang of knowledge of most of fellow wa editors on their history of environmental issues here- I will not hold my breath waiting for someone to come up with any good seccondary sources that would give good overviews of the member groups of the wa conservation council over the last thirty years, sigh... SatuSuro09:42, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
That's what they said about LOFAR, until the Europeans announced at the very last minute that the cash they'd promised to kick in was conditional on it being built in radio-noisy Europe instead of radio-quiet WA. I'll believe it when I see it. Hesperian04:01, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
Recently, some changes were made to Rockingham-area articles and an article created for Mark McGowan MLA. I would fix it up myself but full time uni will have my full time attention for the rest of the week, so thought I'd raise it here. Orderinchaos15:06, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
Final call for Hamersley
Orderinchaos is about to put in the images and send it to FAC. I've done a bit of work on it today. if anyone can think of anything else and also review my images list on the talk page and see if it's excessive or not then we can put them on and list it - thanks! DanielT512:11, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
Thanks guys :) I was prepared for the worst, I think it was a hell of a lot of preempting of issues on everyone's part that meant it got a fairly easy run. Now to find another one to work on... Orderinchaos08:41, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
Good call Grangarra. 78's is an important piece of the fabric and evolution of the WA music scene. Hopefully there's some music buffs out there who can add some more weight to the article. thewinchester12:12, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
Follow up – I've notified both the nominator and the admin who deleted the article that I have restored it. Gnangarra12:20, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
Well done - it needs some companions to get through windter - anyone else for tricky perth items- anyone for a London Court article? SatuSuro12:44, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
He is of course one of our own - so we need to be kept up with this! Maybe WA project persons might be interested to join in. SatuSuro10:43, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
Someone has written a vaguely adequate but substandard election article at Western Australian election, 2005 (I had to move it to the correct spelling as they had "West Australian")... my biggest problem with it is it wears a strong bias about the prospects of the Liberals going into the election. Noone ever thought they had a hope of winning but thought they might win some marginals, but the Feds came in and blew up the coalition so they wasted their time fighting the Nats. I think the extreme right agenda didnt help in the city either, that was announced in October or November well before the election. DanielT513:56, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
You're not wrong. The article's been written with very little knowledge of the local political scene and reliance on an expert from ECU who basically qualifies as an "educated watcher" rather than a David Black or a Greg Craven (the West use him a fair bit), and in its current form could not be upgraded past Start class in my opinion. The section on the seat changes doesn't tell me clearly what I already know, it's all lost in the details. Libs and Labor getting back seats from retiring independents, while important in the result, is not actually critical to the understanding as it's the entirely expected result. I agree that there seems to be a Liberal POV in there and we need to make it a priority to fix it. Orderinchaos14:52, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
I have done my bit trying to fix this page. I used a template constructed by another user which was far more readable and attempted to summarise some of the goings on in the lead. It's not even close to complete but it's the best I can do in 30 minutes. :) DanielT516:17, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
Good changes Daniel :) I've put in minor changes to the 1993-2005 elections to bring them into line with MOS and other stuff. They're all very basic but at least we've managed to steer around the problems identified above. When I get time after doing the geography stuff, I'll do what I can to bring these up to B class or higher, although sourcing will be a problem. If anyone knows any good sources about these four elections (or has anything to add) I'd love to know - I really want to use News Ltd and the West as sources as little as possible, as both were identifiably inaccurate during at least two of the polls. I remember browsing a good book about 2001 which delved into the Bloffwitch car deal and Kingstream in some depth, I'd love to find that again. Orderinchaos03:23, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
go to the talk page for more ...
(Date added for archiving) 13:55, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
CALM and Naturebase external links
Most of the Wikipedia links to www.calm.wa.gov.au are broken with the website change from CALM to Naturebase. As many of these broken links are listed in Wikipedia:Dead_external_links#Downloads, there is a danger that well meaning editors will simply go through the article list and remove the broken links. The articles need to be gone through manually and relinked by searching naturebase.net. —Moondyne01:54, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
The bad news is the DEC have adopted one of those annoying content systems that completely obscure the URLs, so there's no easy fix. The good news is the list isn't all that long, as many of them are links from Wikipedia:Dead external links. The list of links that actually need fixing follows. Hesperian05:53, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
I'd be careful as to what you decide to go about fixing. Due to the merger of CALM and DOE, they are in the middle of consolidating their seperate CMS systems. I don't know if CALM Naturebase will be staying in it's current Joomla environment, but I will find out. You obviously don't want to go fixing these links to find out a few months down the track they'll be changing or screwed up again. Will try and get some more information soon. thewinchester07:46, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
Once this list is done we should ensure it stays somewhere in the archives so that if a second change does occur we can easily trace back what we did. Orderinchaos08:42, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
Please see the main project page for the potential immanent deletion of the Musician List - perhaps as a project we need to decide what to do with this!SatuSuro01:37, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
History of Perth Category
Category:Histories of cities in Australia does not have such for Perth - admittedly other states havent populated their categories - but nothing for Perth? Interesting to see whether anyone is interested in either articles for - or tying in - with such a category - seeing that the other cities have one . SatuSuro02:03, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
Out of curiosity - do we have/have we had separate articles on any of the w.a. cyclones at all? - or is it for australia? SatuSuro 12:56, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
OOps - just found Category:Cyclones in Australia clearly unedrpopulated and not linked to either an article or list of substance SatuSuro13:03, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
Excellent - thanks for the response - as it is a major aspect of life for the people living along the pilbara coast - or above the tropic of capricorn I believe the WA project should take more effort in making sure stuff like this gets up to scratch - so thanks Hossen27 ! SatuSuro12:23, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
Thats a pretty good map. My father has a similar map (might actually be the same one) for the entire state and one for the nation, but they are framed. If they could be found they would be great additions to many articles. Hossen2706:15, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
It could be a namesake - one Peter Holland did indeed run in 1984 in Division of Forrest picking up 45.7% of the vote. It's not an uncommon name though. What may be worthwhile is checking Bunbury newspapers (South West Times etc) around Nov 84 for ads, see if they picture the candidate. (Another Peter Holland is a senior person in Geoscience Australia, while another is a Monash academic) Orderinchaos14:12, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
I was looking for clarity over whether it was a state or federal seat he contested. I'm quite certain that it is the newsreader I'm taking about. —Moondyne15:55, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
Ah oops, sorry :) I thought it was a bit odd as it was a South West-based seat, I'd have expected him to try for Moore (which then included nearly all of modern-day Pearce) or Curtin (all other seats had sitting Labor MPs and he had direct ties to both seats). And of course there was no 1984 state election (1983 or 1986) and no state seat of Forrest at that time - although one historically existed. Orderinchaos18:00, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
BTW anyone got any idea what the Swan Location K or Cockburn Sound Location 16 or Ninghan Location 23 would be called (as in the bit italicised), or where I would find out? It'd be a region of some sort but I think region has a different meaning (eg Gascoyne, Pilbara etc). They don't conform with the counties but they were used from the colony's earliest days and are still used today - recent council documents from any I can find use them consistently. I wouldn't mind doing an SVG map of them and then linking to a series of articles - it seems there's about 30 of them.
There's an interesting thing too where when they resume a lot from a big location as crown land, they create a new location number for it - so many of the higher-numbered locations are actually parks, drains, schools or buildings, and even "trig stations" whatever they are, while the lower ones are often huge tracts of land - eg Swan 1370 covers from around 1km north of Hepburn Avenue all the way out to Yanchep, with some bits cut out of it here and there (including almost the entire coastline past Burns, Quinns etc, which is Reserve 20561, first gazetted in 1930.) And now I really am rabbiting on. :P Orderinchaos16:33, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
Cameron's book on early Perth has a map with such strange parcels of land identified in the original locations allocated in the time of Stirling - most locations were the parcels allocated along straight lines with no interest in topography. SatuSuro12:34, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
Cadastral divisions of Australia states that "Most property titles in Australia are listed as being in the parish and county". On a hunch, I plugged "Cockburn Sound" into the Gazetteer, and not only is there are sound of that name, there is also an entity of type "DI (Administrative)",[7] which is defined as "Agricultural area, County, District, Local government area, Parish, Region"[8] (my emphasis). "Swan" comes up as a "DI" too, [9] (and the map suggests that this is not the LGA or federal division. Finally, "Ningham" comes up as an entity of type "PRSH" (i.e. parish), but in Queensland. Would this be right?
If you're happy with Ningham being in Queensland, then I suggest that these three names refer to parishes, in the land title sense.
Need for work on Western Australian Aboriginal Groups
Whilst we have something on Noongar, there is nothing on Yamatji, Wangka, or other Aboriginal groups in Western Australia. There is also a huge gap in a number of local history articles about Abioriginal presence in locations, for example there was no mention of the Aboriginal occupation of Albany, and I suspect the same is true of most other country towns in the Western Australian section. John D. Croft13:49, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
You are absolutely right John. The reality is people come here voluntarily and write on subjects that they are familiar with. There's just not that many people who can contribute to these subjects which is quite sad as its very worthwhile and encyclopaedic - far more than silly articles about schools. The answer is to encourage new editors into the project. —Moondyne03:00, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
Since the trial with WP:ADEL articles worked, and seeing as though this project tends to be something of a beehive, I've introduced an assessment capability for WP:WA to {{WP Australia}}. Here's the intitial statistics: Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Western Australia articles by quality statistics. The only change to existing assessment practice is the introduction of a "WA-importance=" parameter (which functions in addition to the general "importance=" parameter) so that you can rank WA-related articles in the context of this project's scope. Have fun, --cj | talk13:59, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
Any reason why it wasn't mapped to the existing importance rating used in the WP Australia template? Most of the WA entries use that field already to rate the importance as there's no real difference in the mappings between the two projects (someone might want to confmirm this). thewinchester21:42, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
Theoretically, articles that may be highly important to WP:WA may not be so important in a national context. I'd offer an example, except I don't know Western Australian topics well enough. We're still in trial stage, and I'm certainly not attached to the parameter, so if in due course the general opinion is against it, it can be removed.--cj | talk22:07, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
And the other way around too. Since cyclones are topical: a cyclone that smashes Queensland and the Northern Territory to smithereens, then causes minor damage in WA, would be higher for Australia as a whole than for WA; a cyclone that smashes WA to smithereens would be higher for WA than for Australia as a whole. Hesperian11:00, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
Should we have a discussion here on how we should rate WA articles differently to Australian ones, or shall we assume the same for now until a pressing need to do otherwise arises? Orderinchaos15:46, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
That's what I was meaning. Remind me not to indulge in structural theory at quarter to one in the morning after a full day at uni :) Orderinchaos06:29, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
OIC, Don't forget not to indulge in structural theory at quarter to one in the morning after a full day at uni :) Hesperian12:19, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
Grrr, I should not indulge in rhetoric upon recognising my errors of wording the day after being up until after a quarter to one in the morning after a full day at uni :) Orderinchaos12:21, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
Cyclone George has been created by the Hurricane Project, it covers the storm itself but will need to updated with results of various investigations into the deaths etc. Gnangarra03:05, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
Whats the bet that no-one in the wiki heirarchy/ jimbo minder dept even looks at the wa project or its trappings before coming here - 1 round at the next meetup i make it on that ! SatuSuro08:03, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
I reckon you'll be wrong - and 1st round on me if I'm mistaken. I'm clearing my diary for a dinner invite on the 24/4. —Moondyne08:24, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
I thinks we have a date range for the next meetup somewhere between 23-25 April, since he's in Adelaide on the 23rd and in Sydney on the 26 given the restrictions to aircraft in sydney his flight will probably be during the day on 25th. How about we send him an email with an invite to a meetup for late drinks on the 24th. Gnangarra12:43, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
Oh hell that means I shout first round... do it! - maybe signed on behalf of the 1st meetup group - iand on behalf of all the rest ? SatuSuro12:48, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
As a reminder to all WP WA participants, the next WP Perth project meetup is currently being proposed to coincide with a visit to Perth by Wikipedia founder Jimmy Wales, a breakfast with himself is being mooted.
Where: Botanic Cafe Kings Park
When: Tuesday 24 April 2007.
Time: Meetup proper from 07:00 till 08:30 or when you have to leave
There are heaps that have not yet had articles yet as well - or identified as such. Gold rush towns with in some cases lifespans of 10 or 20 years were surveyed and vested/declared lived in and abandoned - and are still on 'the books' so to speak - so those that hesperian and orderinchaos have tagged are a tip on the iceberg.SatuSuro14:10, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
What about the timber towns of the south west, or places like Dale, Western Australia that grew at cross roads then vanished when the horseless carriage achieved greater range out of a tank of juice. And other that grew as rail grain sidings then vanished in the blink of a road train, or loss of a narrow gauge line. Gnangarra14:49, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
List of islands of Western Australia has over 1,000 entries! I plan to sub-divide it, sooner or later, unless someone else does so first; not least because it will break when the new {{coord}} replaces the existing coordinate templates, but mainly because it's simply unwieldy and not user-friendly. I suggest 200 should be the approximate maximum; 240 the hard limit (coord breaks at ~247 on that page). Like wise List of lakes in Western Australia. Andy Mabbett10:13, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
I see your point re: the template expansion failure; although I wish someone would treat that as a software bug and fix it, rather than requiring us to conform our lists to it. But I don't agree about it being "unwieldy and not user-friendly". In my experience, splitting lists make them worse not better. Once you've split this list it will be harder to read, harder to navigate, harder to categorise, harder to maintain. Hesperian13:03, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
Please note that I directed Andy here - as I thought it might be relevant to the collection of lists relative to western australia - I tried explaining that we have a large landmass.... SatuSuro13:06, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
Thank you for your comments. I suspect that the "failure" is not a software error, but a deliberately hard-coded limit (and reasonably so, lest someone make recursive template calls and crash the system). Perhaps the limit needs top be enlarged, but I couldn't say. I don't agree, though with your comment about the size of the page; it's physically too large (there's a message asking for it to be reduced, when you edit it) and there are plenty of the such lists, which are subdivided, be that alphabetically, geographically or by some other means. Need, I recently sub-divided one such list myself, and was thanked for my efforts. Andy Mabbett15:51, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
FYI, {{coord}} has been streamlined. The page now breaks after 675 instances. As the person working on the template says, there will always be a limit somewhere. And my other points about the size of the page still stand. Andy Mabbett08:25, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
I still maintain that this is a coherent, well scoped list that would be better presented on a single page... but I'm not interested in bikeshedding this any further. Hesperian13:15, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
According to the often unreliable Urban Dictionary, "Technical disputes over minor, marginal issues conducted while more serious ones are being overlooked. The implied image is of people arguing over what color to paint the bicycle shed while the house is not finished." Orderinchaos17:19, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
Thank you. I've done the 'Islands' lists and will follow with lakes later. I'll leave it to those of you who know the subject best, to decide whether you want the introductory boilerplate and some navigation to go in a template, or stay on the pages. Please see WP:COORD for details of the new coordinate template and its advantages. Andy Mabbett18:38, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
In December 2006, the West Australian published a list entitled the 100 Most Influential Western Australians. The list was developed by a committee including several eminent Western Australian historians. It is considered that articles for each of the 100 people be considered as 'vital articles' for WikiProject Western Australia. Missing, Stub and Start class articles should be created or improved.
I notice today a user as removed GA status from this article. After all the work that went into it I`m not inclined to bother with GA again, it seems too abitary. With a concerted effort however I would be willing to aim for FA status. If anyone is willing to help please comment Ghostieguide10:00, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
Unfortunately that's the nature of the beast; constantly rising standards for good and featured articles and the almost universal reason is lack of references. Under WP:WIAGA, 2b: "the citation of its sources is essential, and while the use of inline citations is not mandatory, it is highly desirable...". It is subjective but I don't think it's arbitrary, and there's plenty of precedents. An article of that length really does need more quality citations than it currently has to hold onto a GA or FA status according to current standards. —Moondyne10:14, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
If it can wait two weeks I'll see if I can improve on it. Got some assignments atm but am looking to go to the Battye for my own stuff. Orderinchaos10:15, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
This article has been bugging me for a few days since I saw the extremely poor state it's history section was in (only a single line). Since then I've given it a massive kick in the bum, and after collecting what I knew about the station and matching it up to information found at LISWA this afternoon, the section has been totally re-written from scratch including appropriate referencing and whatever else was warranted. While the article is within the scope of WP Perth, I know the WP:WA talk page is read by a lot more execellent and competant editors - so if anyone has the time, i'd really appreciate any feedback you'd feel like passing on on the improvments. Cheers, – Thewinchester(talk)17:00, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
Excellent work (and yeah, all the Perth editors seem to be here anyway, I see Perth as more an organisational tool than an actual project these days). Glad to see some of my refs were useful too :) Orderinchaos05:36, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
Further to all of this, I have decided to make some serious efforts to improve the information on the Northern Suburbs Transit System project and connected infrastructure. You'll see that previous link to the NSTS article which is the kick start to it, and I'm hoping to spend some serious time getting further information and compiling it into a greatly improved set of articles. My goal would be to at least get the NSTS article up to an FA status at some point in the next six to nine months, and if we could take the stations with it to FA at the same time it would be that much more special. Thewinchester(talk)16:48, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
It seems like we have both the manpower and skills to do this - we're already planning some visits to the Battye and trying to get things happening on this. Obviously some of the research I did for Hamersley had offspins onto Warwick station, and I can probably bring Innaloo and Stirling up with Stirling station when that is being done. Glendalough is a current event because of the boundary changes and I have a rough idea when that was completed (gazette suggests 1949), so maybe it can join them. Stirling was only declared very late on (1976 I think) and was still largely agricultural almost right to that point, so it shouldn't actually be a hard one to get documents on. My gazettals register for roads and reserves, by the way, is coming along well - hopefully by mid-year it will be complete enough for sharing. Orderinchaos07:07, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
I've identified about 32 holdings in the SLWA collection relevant to the line, and i've not begun to count off the number of relevant items in the SRO collection (Have looked through AEON and there seems to be a truckload of relevant information there, at least 300 or so entries). Looking forward to see if we can pull this off. Thewinchester(talk)07:19, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
I've just contributed to Talk on Feral Cats and I think that the proceeding dialogue has only been POV of American and European bias and is not based in scientific fact. Of course in Western Australia we do have numerous studies by CSIRO and CALM so maybe some of us should get together on putting the rest of the world straight on what is known, not what is POV. petedavo14:58, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
Just as an FYI, I've taken the liberty of cleaning up this category to make a bit more sense to the structure in regards to rail transport. Previously, Railway stations in Perth, Western Australia was at the top of this category, and was causing a number of Perth rail transport related articles to be left all on their own without any mapping back to the main category. I have since created Rail transport in Perth, and moved Railway stations in Perth, Western Australia underneath it. All other rail articles which were hanging on their own have now been re-categorised accordingly so they relate back to the core subject tree. Drop me a line if there's any questions, comments, or issues. Thewinchester(talk)18:47, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
| WA-importance = [Low|Mid|High|Top]
(changed section heading from incorrect "Medium" to correct "Mid" - apologies if I've broken some links. Hesperian02:31, 22 April 2007 (UTC))
The {{WP Australia}} template has had a WA-importance argument for a while now. But it appears that this parameter has only ever been used twice. Perhaps this is because no-one knows about it? Or is it because everyone (including me) keeps forgetting to make use of it?
Well, anyhow, if you're assessing article importance for WP Australia, please take a moment to ascribe a WA-importance too. Hesperian01:35, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
Because the template is a disgusting mess of spaghetti code. In this case, someone had supplied a rating= argument instead of class= argument, and for reasons unknown this was preventing the WA-importance= argument from doing its job. Hesperian01:59, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
Obviously Perth would be top and the major regional cities would be high, but what importance should WA give to towns (major/minor), suburbs (hub/non-hub), councils/shires and the 9 regions? âThe preceding unsigned comment was added by Orderinchaos (talk ⢠contribs) 04:55, 12 April 2007 (UTC).
I'll 2nd that 2nd. BTW I think Stirling, Yagan, O'Connor and J.Forrest as top are there any other people as significant these 4. Gnangarra07:02, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
[edit conflict] :::Logically, the WP:WA100 bio's should all be either Top (say: Stirling, Forrest (both of them), Yagan, Vlamingh, O'Connor, Mitchell (maybe)) or High (the rest of them). —Moondyne07:09, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
with premiers the person in general should be high-if elected, mid-if they took over midterm, with exceptions(inc incumbent at top). WP:WA100 default mid, high for the notable, top exceptional and BB only if we all get a phone. Gnangarra07:13, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
IMHO high schools should be mid including all PSA ones, UWA as top, with the other Uni's at high. exceptions on a case by case Gnangarra07:38, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
Wouldn't Curtin merit top as well on that basis, given it's almost the size of all others combined and has international profile? Orderinchaos07:42, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
Major regional cities (>10000 + Esperance, Collie, Pinjarra, any others which merit High through historical or economic importance) - high
Other large towns - Medium
All other towns - Low
Major suburbs (Joondalup, Midland, Armadale, Cannington, Subiaco, Cottesloe, Scarborough, Rockingham, any others?) - Medium-High
Other suburbs - Low
Councils - medium (urban ones plus Cities outside Perth, and Shire of Busselton which is soon to change status) to low except City of Perth.
Note this is only a proposed hierarchy so if you disagree let me know, I'm not ultra-committed to the above and more interested in getting it right :) Orderinchaos07:42, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
"Hey, buddy. You forgot your change." "Thanks. Makes the world go 'round." "What's that?" "Gold." "Some people say love." "Well, they're right too. It is love. Love of gold." David Mamet, Heist
Anyway, the amount of gold to have come Western Australia makes the gold rushes look like a lucky dip. Substantial enough that the british crown maintained control of it well past federation. There was at least one royal commission regarding associated corruption in WA. The effect on pop. was enormous and tipped the gender balance of the state yet again. This started at a time when 'Australia' (read: Eastern States) was in a depression. I too can't believe we don't have an article on the Gold boom(redirect) as it is often called. Importance = top, anyone who disagrees will get another Mamet quote :P Fred17:33, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
I read somewhere that 80% of the gold held at Fort Knox was mined in Kalgoorlie and that upto 45% of all the gold ever mined in the world is from Kalgoorlie. Is this true? 203.59.157.4213:49, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
Not quite 45%. See Perth Mint. "Up to 2000, the Mint's refined fine gold output totalled 4,500 tonnes, representing 3.25% of the total tonnage of gold produced by humankind. This is about the current holdings of gold bullion in the United States Mint's Fort Knox Bullion Depository." —Moondyne14:18, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
moved from "can't believe ..." to current discussion.
Maybe start broad with Gold mining in Western Australia, to fit in with Moondyne's excellent series on W.A. industries. The history section may eventually warrant a daughter article - History of gold mining in Western Australia. This would give us the context we need to write individual articles on the Halls Creek, Yilgarn, Southern Cross and Coolgardie rushes, and the 1890s gold boom.
One of Scott's early bands in Perth was The Spektors which later merged with another Perth band called 'The Winstons' to form The Valentines. My question is, what is the correct spelling of the Winstons? I've seen variously 'Wynztons', 'Winstones' and the 'Winstons' - all in external webpages. My best bet is the latter, but I'd like to get to the bottom of this and in theory it shouldn't be too difficult. Does anyone have any original source material or solid references? —Moondyne01:23, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
Those Winstons were responsible for a 12 second piece of music that basically shaped modern drum'n'bass, oddly enough. Orderinchaos06:51, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
possibly the australian performing rights association has a register of names of groups on the internet from the old days would you get something - lionel crafnield at zenith music (if you are not too shy to ring him) - or get orderinchaos or other battye library hoppers to do a quick squiz in the entertainment pages of the daily news on fridays in about 1966 or so - stage one - there are other avenues - if you want m i can get em to you off wiki :) SatuSuro06:42, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
With the seemingly growing number of historical LG entities which we actually can provide quite good articles for, anyone know if there's a "historical" tag we can apply to the top of them to indicate to readers that this entity is no longer current and they should look elsewhere? I've done an otheruses4 for Geraldton and Greenough, but thought I'd chuck this one out there. Will also come in useful when I get to the electorates. Orderinchaos13:03, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
I have started the portal that will run alongside this project. It is obviously still under construction so feel free to contribute to it. Hossen2715:08, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
Well I doubt i'll have time to claim that round, and even if I did I don't drink (and this is not to encourage you to get me to drink either). Thewinchester(talk)05:09, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
And you know what the desk nazi's there are like with permissions requests, let alone the door goons when you even stand near the main entry gates downstairs with a mobile phone. Thewinchester(talk)07:07, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
What is wrong with you people? Do you want me to do it for you? The TheWinchester link above says "To publish or display them, contact the State Library of Western Australia." A digital copy of the original would be fine. ;) —Moondyne07:28, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
Somebody needs a hug! If I can track it down next time i'm there i'll see what I can do. Drop OIC a line, he might be in there even sooner than me. Thewinchester(talk)07:48, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
Annoying bots
I've come across this bot on WP in the last few days. Nice idea in principal, but it removes article stubs, replaces them section stub tags. However, this method removes it's link to the relevant stub category and IMHO makes it much harder for people who are interested in cleaning the relevant stub categories finding relevant articles. I have actually taken the step of reverting it's changes to articles on my watch list and have left a not on the bot's discussion page flagging this issue. If anyone has any thoughts or comments on this please speak now. Thewinchester(talk)06:38, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
Stubsensor isn't a bot; it's a tool. In this case, User:Petze is running stubsensor, and has chosen to replace {{business-stub}} with some {{section-stub}}s, which, as you say, removes the article from the relevant stub subcategory. If I were you I would take it up with him/her, as your message at the stubsensor page will surely achieve nothing. Hesperian06:52, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
LGAs
Just thought I'd log here that every LGA in Western Australia now has an article documenting its basic statistics, history (formation/amalgamations etc), wards, component towns/suburbs, and thanks to User:Astrokey44, completed neighbour boxes and maps. Some are slightly non standard - the City of South Perth, Town of Kwinana and Shire of Shark Bay come to mind. I'll be looking to upgrade these in a few months with economic data and indicators (NRPs, AgStats and SEIFA), the 2006 census figures which will be out in 7 or so weeks, historic population figures, and any other info (suggestions are welcome :)) Orderinchaos06:34, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
Indeed. These are some of the best articles on municipalities I've seen yet, and to have rolled them out across the entire state is very impressive. Congratulations on a great job! Rebecca07:06, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
all low except maybe mid for Wooroloo this seams to house many of the more well healed residents, also its been subject to damage by a number of bush fires. Gnangarra13:00, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
Cool :) We're down to about 400 unranked and I want to keep it going that way (it was in the thousands last week)... Then it's a matter of others going through my ratings and seeing if they were actually right (most are uncontroversial but I'm certain a few I ranked Low would be Mid and vice versa). Orderinchaos13:18, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
I'm flagging this for everyone's awareness and attention. While checked in on the Aus Del Sort list, I saw that one article related to the Principality of Hutt River had been moved to AfD. Taking a wander through linked articles, I spotted the inclusion of a document [14][15] in the aforementioned article.
The document in question purports to be a copy of/text of what some unnamed person saw in communication from the then Commonwealth Department of the Territories to an unnamed minister. My first concern that regardless of the contents, the graphic in question containing the letter had an Australian security classification within its text, and as the letter was undated it was not possible to determine if the security clearance had expired or been released under the 30yr rule. Further to this, no citation was made as to the source of the document and AFAIC fell into the category of Original Research. It also from examination seemed to be a concoction and not the original document, I immediately set about to remove all links to the item in question, and after discussion with OIC placed a aw-hoax warning on the user's page in question. Regardless if the document was fake or not, I was concerned enough that it warranted my making a call to ASIO to inform them that a document purporting to be classified was in the public realm.
Some discussion has taken place on both the user in question and my talk pages, to which after some discussion with persons and those with friends 'in the know' on these matters, I was reasonably convinced that the document was indeed a fake for a number of reasons. Despite the issues being clearly laid out, the user has failed to understand the WP:NOR and WP:V issues in this matter and persists to push the tried and true I believe that the public have a right to see this document and will be fighting for them to do so line. The user in question has indicated their desire to take the matter to third opinion dispute resolution. I'd be open to here what some of the more experienced project members think about this issue, and the manner in which it was handled. Thewinchester(talk)12:40, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
The funny bit is that the public can see it on any of the websites where it is hosted. I agreed with Thewinchester that it was unsuitable for Wikipedia, although I should clarify I didn't comment on the particular action taken in the above instance. I've since weighed in on both talk pages with my opinion. Orderinchaos12:50, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
Thewinchesters action are reasonable in the circumstances, the source of the letter fails WP:RS. Documents from government agencies should only be officially released material or material sourced via a reliable third party aka a recognised media outlet, published book. Gnangarra13:06, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
Australian transport navbox consolidation
For the interest of WA editors, i've opened up discussion on AWNB on consolidation of Australia's transport navboxes. This has been prompted by the creation of yet another transport-related navbox this morning which has infested a number of Perth transport articles. Your thoughts and input on the matter before I go ahead with this would be appreciated. Thewinchester(talk)04:23, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
Im about to fill in the first 10 entries of the biography section of the WA portal. I thought I'd get some suggestions first. Any ideas Hossen2708:06, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
What a great question! Here's my top 14 (If you have to have 10, you choose which ones to drop, because I can't ;)...
No 14 is fine. I'll wait a bit for other suggestions, though, most of those will be on everyone's list. Hossen2708:48, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
Brand, Mitchell and de Vlamingh are barely more than stubs, so if you want to drop some, there's three. —Moondyne13:40, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
No disrespect to the folks I'd say Edith Cowan as she is the odd one out - I'd suggest the next 10 need to be women ! SatuSuro13:49, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
The stub articles can be dropped no problem there, the selected bio really needs a image, that limits some in the list right now. There's no actual limit on how many we can have, its just the more you have the less frequent each article appears. The women idea is feasible though. Hossen2714:23, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
Looks like a cut and paste of older versions of the existing articles - it needs to be fixed so that each one is in summary form with a {{main|X, Western Australia}} link to the primary article on each town. Orderinchaos06:17, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
In its current state I'd only just agree with Moondyne - if it had shown any broader larger picture of the ebb and flow of mining communities in general - and had Wittenoom (and the closing down politics) I would have argued for a very strong keep, as it could have been specifically an article with significance - maybe another article, another day to deal with the processes that create them in the first place SatuSuro01:22, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
OOOps it pays to read the item first and then write? yes? OK so it does have Wittenoom -
(1) I agree with a category as proposed as by Moondyne
(2) I dont agree with a 'list' article as it is - but I would prefer to see a small article introducing and providing an overview the subject and linking the various townsites - rather than including ad hoc tourist info on bits and pieces. It is salient that the first edit made on this article appeared to be was not followedup - not a good sign.
(3) Having tagged a few cats, get intrigued by cats with no linked articles, my reason for wanting one, cheers SatuSuro01:30, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
Hi all... I've just started editing under a username, I was previously known as all sorts of little number groups making small corrections to articles. I'm just dropping a note here regarding the Culture categories. I have created a new category "Culture in Western Australia" to house the cultural sections of the WA and Perth Wikipedia projects, as they all seemed to be floating around ekeing out their own separate existences and were thoroughly tangled! Also sorted out the 100% redundancy between "Media in Perth, Western Australia" and "Radio stations in Perth" (the latter seems a more logical place, and it is a subset of Media in Western Australia anyway). If anyone has any suggestions or requests or ideas I'm all ears! Zivko8511:49, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
Railway line diagrams
Ok, after stumbling upon the German railway template this afternoon which is nearly complete in migration from de.wp, i've decided to have a crack at implementing it. Joondalup railway line, Perth is my first crack at the beast, and i'd be pleased to hear your feedback as to what you think about it's use in the Perth rail line articles. Cheers, Thewinchester(talk)08:24, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
The worst thing, I did all of that by hand... before reading further down the documentation and realising that someone with some brains had thrown together an application to make doing it a whole lot easier. Sigh! Thewinchester(talk)08:42, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
Its great - well worth the hard work. Pity its antithetical to the direction in reality, I would have thought from the bottom up to correspond to south to north. Ok you have a few more lines to do now :) SatuSuro09:38, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
Ok, just as an FYI I have now made my third revert this month to the above article. There are a number of anon ip's who seem to have this odd beleif that Virgin Atlantic had committed to use the new Boeing 787 Dreamliner to fly PER-LHR non-stop. I've had to look into this, and the airline only ever indicated that the plane in question could enable non-stop flights on this and outer long haul routes. If you have Perth Airport on your watchlist and see edits similar to this crop up, please remove them as vandalism. I've also addressed this issue on the article's talk page. Cheers, Thewinchester(talk)10:25, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
Aquinascruft
After a conversation with Orderinchaos this evening, I've decided to create an essay on Aquinascruft. It was first coined by Hesperian in this AfD. Considering the sheer number of school related issues which I see day in day out in AfD, it was high time someone got round to writing an essay which can be used to quickly cover the policy issues relating to them. Enjoy. Thewinchester(talk)12:30, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
At last I'm famous. I knew if I went around wasting space and annoying people like Paris and Nicole do, sooner or later I'd make it. Hesperian12:44, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
I think maybe it should be moved to either user space or under the WA project space in its current state the essay may attract an Ogre. Gnangarra13:52, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
LOL! I might have a look into it when I've got time - my available WikiTime was taken up this morning with sorting out someone forking one of my GAs (it was a valid fork, but poorly executed) Orderinchaos18:59, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
Hesp will have to make sure his anonymity is up on P and N - I'd hate to think there would be videos on the net....And as for ogres - well theres a third version of that out at the moment SatuSuro23:45, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
Hows about "Alternate suggestions". It's not brilliant but at least it's neutral. Great work on the article BTW. —Moondyne13:12, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
The simple things in life are often the best. Suggestion taken and changed accordingly. And thanks for the re-rating of this one to a B. I'm working with OIC for ideas about how this can be improved, and as previously stated i'd like to see this hit GA level sometime this year (If not all the railway stations on the Joondalup line). It all depends on how much information I can get access to via Dept. Premier and Cabinet and DPI, and how long I feel up to spending in the SRO particularly after my wingman bailed on me last time. Thewinchester(talk)14:06, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
Ok, this article finally deserves it's B-High rating now particularly after some major work this evening having added about 10k. Literally by chance I stumbled across two documents on their own website which gave a pretty detailed account of the airport's history. I've made my way through the FAC document in it's entirety, and i'm still not even a few pages into the book published by Graylands Teachers College. Needless to say, all possible improvements and ideas you can think of are welcomed and valued, particularly since after I've done with this second reference I'd like to consider taking to GAC for review. Cheers, Thewinchester(talk)16:11, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
215 edits later and having finally finished cleaning up melbourne public transport last night, it's time to give Perth a good kick in the pants. First order of business is a new navbox for the topic, which I have drafted up here. If you could take a look and pass on your comments it would be appreciated.
I've done that, and also done some other jigging under the Transport in Western Australia hierarchy to create a structure which compares to Victoria, although is not as complete. Orderinchaos05:10, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
I failed to overcome my apathy with respect to Ellis Guitars, and now I'm wondering if I have let it get out of hand; see the ridiculously overdone backlink at Corymbia calophylla for example. Perhaps someone else feels inspired to tag-n-bag the article. Hesperian12:49, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
I'll be up around Dongara, Geraldton, Northampton and Kalbarri in a couple of weeks, if anyone has any requests for photos (noting I do not have a car) additionally to Geraldton suburbs, please let me know. Orderinchaos17:30, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
I have created most of the suburbs in Suburbs of Geraldton, the other 6 are waiting for me to finish their geography and demographic sections before they go up. If anyone can think of anything to add to any of them, feel free. Orderinchaos02:06, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
Maritime museum has the actual Batavia Arch, as opposed to the copy in Freo I photographed. Also anything else while your in there. dont forget Regans Ford, Cataby, Badgingarra, Eneabba (also the natural gas pumps at Eneaba) as you pass through them. If you get there walkabout and Greenough river, anything that flowering. Gnangarra06:48, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
Was only able to get (several) decent shots of Cataby and one of Gingin, took heaps along the Brand Highway from the bus but no idea how they will turn out. Am now in Geraldton, will have a busy couple of days. :) List currently includes: Cathedral of the Holy Cross, pictures to illustrate the road and suburb articles and Chapman River, Point Moore Lighthouse, HMAS Sydney Memorial, Geraldton Port infrastructure, the old Greenough Shire office and a few old buildings.Orderinchaos 10:30, 3 July 2007 (UTC) Got them all except pictures for Strathalbyn, Tarcoola Beach, Wandina and Rudd's Gully and I have no idea what my Drummond Cove shot will look like. Orderinchaos04:54, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
Got all these. Sadly my camera packed up and carked it this morning, so I have just bought a new one at DSE so I can run down and get southern Geraldton before my bus. 341 shots to date. Orderinchaos04:59, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
Going to get some cliffs today, nat park tomorrow, who knows what on Monday. Advance warning: anything worth snapping in Dongara? Orderinchaos04:54, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
Hamersley, Western Australia FAR
Hamersley, Western Australia has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here.SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:06, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
The Geography of Western Australia
I jave established a backbone for the article on the Geopgraphy of Western Australia. I welcome all you WA Wikipedians to contribute. Regards
John D. Croft01:45, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
Heavens above, that is a right mess. Complex images and maps are just not my forte (As I found out when attempting to do a graph in SVG format for Perth Airport), so if an appropriatly skilled person could set this up it would be greatly appreciated. Thewinchester(talk)03:15, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
Comments at various locations suggest we have lost (ie wikipedia or the oz project) the good map makers of the past (astrokey still around?)- we need a map maker in training - specially if the new geography of western australia article is to get beyond crawling... SatuSuro03:18, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
Ok you have the point - but if you get the implications of what the new geography article is all about - its going to need heaps and heaps of maps to prove most of its points - just the lead paragraph could have up to three maps to make sense of the assertions SatuSuro03:38, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
Heck, i'd just like it to illistrate where suburbs and important locations are (which as soon as we get a map into the relevant cat we're away using the existing template), but if we can come up for something which works for more uses than that it would be even better. Thewinchester(talk)03:51, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
Looks good Astrokey, love your work. Now for the mapping challenged like myself I just need to work on some conversion issues to impliment it correctly. Thewinchester(talk)11:45, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
Norman Brearley started
Ok, i've just started off Norman Brearley from the requested articles list. It's a little light on detail at the moment, so all information for expansion would be appreciated. If anyone knows where to source an appropriate free image, also appreciated. Thewinchester(talk)13:16, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
I have a couple of obscure refs. I will put my hand up to get the image, unless any one has already. Fred ☻ 13:45, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
Noticed the image, thanks for the quick find. I generally prefer to steer clear of them because the copyright issues can get messy. Best left for someone such as yourself with the experience. All obscure references and information welcomed. Thewinchester(talk)14:39, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
If you'd like, I can email you a scan of
Mayman, Ted (1979). "Sir Norman Brearley, the aviator". In Hunt, Lyall (ed) (ed.). Westralian Portraits. Nedlands: University of Western Australia Press. pp. 193–198. ISBN0-85564-157-6. {{cite book}}: |editor= has generic name (help)
I did some light proofing on this and saw that the footnotes are in a mess, so suggest you have another go at them. I'm also looking for some material I have somewhere on Brearley's very important contribution to postal services (airmail) in WA. – Bjenks09:45, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
Huh? theres not too much to use a library online catalogue - however many editors in wikipedia dont seem to know what refs are... sighSatuSuro08:34, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
I've started an article on Tjyllyungoo (Lance Chadd) who is a top indigenous landscape painter based at Bunbury, I understand. Would appreciate contributions from anyone with knowledge. I have one of his tree paintings which probably gives me the right to copy and release a jpg. --Bjenks17:35, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
This article has just been increased 14x over, so if you've not said your piece on this AfD, would you please take the time to review it and pass your considered comments in due course. Thewinchester(talk)13:47, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
There seems to be a large discrepancy between the names of articles about schools in Perth and the guidelines for disambiguation and WP:NC(S). Specifically, that these articles should use parenthetical disambiguation not comma (ie School Name (Perth, Western Australia) not School Name, Perth, Western Australia). If you have a good reason not to follow the guideline, please register your concern at WT:NC(S)Adam McCormick15:41, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
Per OIC, the naming convention is a proposed guideline, and quite frankly School Name, Location works quite fine. The parenthesis are redundant. Thewinchester(talk)02:48, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
I recall reading that Peter is a nephew of Mary and Elizabeth but can't verify this. Does anyone know or know differently? —Moondyne02:39, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
I'm not sure that format is as helpful - I think you're already on the right track with the one you've got. The NT and NSW pages have quite a bit of information which seems much more suited to a portal, and some which is pretty irrelevant (like the Australia-wide news template). While it looks more slick, I don't see a lot on either of them which actually helps collaboration - whereas I see a lot here that does. In short, I think they should be copying you guys, not vice versa. :) Rebecca12:58, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
I agree with Rebecca. I don't much bother posting article requests now that I have to click through to a shared template. Things were much easier when we had a simple, ugly, archaic project page. Hesperian13:06, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
I personally think what we have is the best for a well-used page which needs frequent updating. Keep in mind NSW and NT were written outside their respective borders. Orderinchaos13:50, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
I like our current working mans version we dont need anything pretty its just for communicating and noting changes/issues, with that format you end up 6 different templates that need constant monitoring and updating. And worse still someone got to spend a lot of useful time doing it. Gnangarra12:18, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
Riverina, one of the other highly active projects, also has a utilitarian layout. It works better when lots of minor updates are needed. The other ones are mostly for marketing purposes to try and entice people in :P Orderinchaos12:24, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
If I may explain, the original format of the suggested page is not from the NT WikiProject, but from Sydney's Wikiproject. The original WikiProject Sydney page didn't have a lot of information on it, so I thought it might be better to move it to a page that consolidated all the information in a couple of templates. Yes, the Australia-wide news section is a bit out of place, but no one was going to spend the time on writing a Sydney-wide or NSW-wide news bulletin - there just isn't enough notable news to be covered. My only other idea was to merge the talk page with the main page, like the Aus Wikipedians' notice board. My efforts were a big improvement on the Sydney page, but the WA is quite advanced in its own way, so there's no need to do any work on it here if you don't want to. JRG05:30, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
Perth city centre
Someone has asked me today why we don't have an article for the Perth CBD. On looking around, I can see the following articles:
Given that "downtown" is never used in an Australian context, and the suburb of Perth is a very strange and inconsistent shape - Hyde Park on Vincent Street is in Perth, as is the back of the East Perth train station, and the suburb bends and stretches around Northbridge and Highgate - what should we call ours? Factors similar to ours were a reason why Melbourne deviated from the norm in their naming, as the suburb name extends well beyond the "Hoddle grid" and even across the river and down St Kilda Road for several kilometres. Orderinchaos03:25, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
Interesting no Adelaide or Hobart (which are far more definable in space than some others). As potential sub sections the malls and arcades (current and historic) could be sections which would get around the issues of notability that 78s had to bear. It would also need to be appraised against the stubs/articles of the roads that exist within it (maybe they need to merge into it) - and be defined very carefully. So with care, and caution. SatuSuro05:53, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
Suggest maybe the region bound by Freeway, rail line(Freo-Armadale) and river which is in general the Perth CBD area, that would exclude Parliament house, KP, West Perth but included the East Perth Cemetery, WACA, Glouster Park, Langley, and trinity college Gnangarra06:14, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
Yeah this is the same debate Melbourne had - in the end they ended up with Melbourne 3000/3004, which included quite a random space that happened to be within the locality, while having an entirely separate article for "Hoddle Grid" which is La Trobe, Spencer, Flinders, Spring. The best definition of "CBD" in perth would be Gnangarra's, as far as Hill Street, as East Perth is kind of distinct. (I'm not sure one way or another, but I probably tend slightly towards the locality as a whole, with sections on each "bit") Orderinchaos10:49, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
Hill street not far enough as the city is IMHO refers to the area from the causeway. Maybe limit it at Plain street include the area around Hay and Adelaide tce to causeway. Gnangarra11:05, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
Hill Street is the actual gazetted boundary though - beyond that is East Perth. (I always thought it was Victoria Avenue for some reason until a couple of years ago - possibly because of the name changes of some roads. Incidentally those roads change name because they were built during the reign of Victoria and a street could not continue across the name of a monarch. Weird rule but you see it in Adelaide too with King William Street in the CBD) Orderinchaos11:08, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
A cut at hill would exclude the ABC, Perth Mint, Government Labs, Wellington Square, and Silver City, Perth Police station, East Perth lockup, Sheraton, all recognised as being in the city. Gnangarra11:12, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
Since I hit a nerve earlier on today with Moondyne, I owe him some images for the article. Anyhow between now and then I'd like to find some old images, which I could then retake now showing the difference over time. Post any links to the talk page of the article. Gnangarra08:32, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
Tagging
Anyone know if images are supposed to be project tagged? (Either class=NA or not at all I'd gather, but I'm wondering if we should actually bother at all.) Due to the new u-beaut features on AWB (i.e. recursive category searching) I've been able to mine Geography of Western Australia and surprisingly only found 61 pages which weren't tagged, some of which had talk page redirects. Orderinchaos02:14, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
Announcing the birth of...
Template:Infobox Government agency, a new baby infobox template weighing in a 3.25kb, born to proud parent Thewinchester and delivered in the birthing suite by Orderinchaos. Infobox and parent are doing well, and the parent is already showing off the newborn in locations as far away as the United States. We look forward to watching this infobox grow into into a healthy template. Thewinchester(talk)14:35, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
Userbox
While experimenting with some templates, I have made an attempt to combine the multiple userboxes that this project has - having a single template is always the way to go. I have combined them all into the one template {{User WPWA}} where you can choose from a couple of options what you wish to display, and add extra ones without having to make a new template every time. See the template page for the syntax. This way, the other templates can be redirected to this one and eventually deleted. If you've got any questions or comments, please leave them at my talk page. Thanks. - 52 Pickup08:15, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
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