Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Protected areas/Archive 6

This is an archive of past discussions about Wikipedia:WikiProject Protected areas. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archive 1

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Archive 4

Project scope clarification

There is a disconnect between the first paragraph:

This WikiProject aims primarily to provide information on all protected areas in the world.

and the third paragraph:

Protected areas are those which a higher level governmental entity manages, maintains and or oversees directly. For instance in the United States, this would include primarily federal and to a lesser degree, state managed areas, but rarely those managed by a county or city.

The disconnect plus the subjective qualifiers make it hard to decide if an article should be tagged with this project. There is also land owned by NGOs such as The Nature Conservancy.

I wrote a program to generate a list of articles that are in a protected area category that aren't tagged with this project. Clarification of this projects scope would help me determine which ones to manually tag. --Bamyers99 (talk) 23:07, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

Hi Bamyers99. I think there is not really a consensus here on the scope of the wikiproject, but it would be great if your raising the question, with a good offer to help, could lead us to come to some consensus. Back in 2007-2008, there was productive-seeming discussion about defining this project's scope to be sites that are actually listed in the United Nations Environment Programme's (UNEP's) list of protected areas, and/or the International Union for Conservation of Nature (IUCN)'s World Database of Protected Areas (WDPA) database. And/or that should be listed there, with possibility of collaboration back-and-forth to have UNEP/IUCN update their database sensibly. (See discussions archived here and in sections before and after.) At the time there was clearly some bad data in IUCN's database, both in terms of erroneous inclusions of inappropriate areas, and of erroneous exclusions of valid protected areas. There was some momentum developing for this Wikiproject to proceed, in cooperation with IUCN's director who contacted this Wikiproject and was interested, but that didn't work at the time.

I think starting anew could mean working with IUCN and/or with UNEP's World Conservation Monitoring Centre, see http://www.unep-wcmc.org/. That organization currently states that there are 22,599 Protected Areas in the United States, covering 12% of the United States, per http://beta.unep-wcmc.org/#?dashboard=show (not sure if that URL will work for you, but it is what shows for me).

Anyhow, I think it is necessary to work with a list (although it can be an evolving list) that is maintained by IUCN or another entity, to determine which sites are protected areas to be covered by this wikiproject. --do ncr am 23:58, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

I think there is consensus that all IUCN listed areas are within the scope of this WikiProject, but I wouldn't add at this stage areas with lower level protection only. It is only useful to tag articles if editors here are willing and able to take care of all tagged articles. There was a similar bot tagging in November 2011 which I requested from DodoBot. It included only pages that are clearly in scope, as included in the categories listed here. This increased the number of tagged articles by about 1,000. I think at this stage as the number of tagged articles is increasing, it would be also useful to think of more taskforces. --ELEKHH^T 10:16, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

I have created a list of protected area designations from around the world at User:Bamyers99/sandbox/List of protected area types (the page name should be designations instead of types). I don't know if this list is suitable for a real article. I am going to feed some of these to the new article bot.

Re: "Using a list": I don't see a need to use a third party list for determining if an article is of interest to this project. Those lists are always going to be out of date because of their data collection methods. It is usually not that hard to figure out if an article is of interest using either the lead or the designation.

Re: "Working with IUCN/UNEP": Protected Planet maintains two sets of data. 1) Entity submitted (govt, etc.) 2) Community submitted (anyone). The community submitted data is not a reliable source for the IUCN category, etc. unless there is a verifiable reference tied to the community update. This would be hard to verify if using a database dump from them to update article info boxes.

Re: "Editors willing to care for all tagged articles": I don't think that is possible for many wikiprojects. I can't predict what future editors will be willing to do. The importance field is there for denoting project priority. --Bamyers99 (talk) 01:11, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

You can't predict future participation, but it can go both ways: WikiProjects can fail for having too broad scope as well. Overlapping with other WikiProjects is also undesirable. I suggest to be cautious. In your list, some general terms such as "state forest" can have different meaning in various countries. In Australia for instance state forests are often production forests managed by the state forestry authorities. --ELEKHH^T 08:52, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

Infobox protected area

Infobox protected area has been proposed for merger at Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2014 May 17#Template:Infobox protected area. --ELEKHH^T 09:42, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

Wiki Loves Earth

There is an ongoing Wiki Loves Earth photography competition on Commons. Over 20,000 images have have been uploaded so far from about a dozen countries. Many of these images can be useful for illustrating protected areas articles. The competition is open until the end of May. --ELEKHH^T 10:48, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Cape Byron Marine Park

Here's an AfC submission that's up for review. You may wish to take a look. —Anne Delong (talk) 04:00, 10 June 2014 (UTC)

Threatened species known to occur in the Great Barrier Reef World Heritage Area

Hi All

I started an article Threatened species known to occur in the Great Barrier Reef World Heritage Area, it still needs a lot of work and would appreciate some help. It's quite a complex job that would help others to be done systematically, please see the talk page for notes and information.

Many thanks

--Mrjohncummings (talk) 23:15, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

US Army Corps of Engineers and protected areas

I find that many articles on reservoirs and other facilities built and still maintained by the US Army Corps of Engineers have been placed into 'protected areas of xx county' categories simply because of the USACE connection. The articles do not show that the reservoirs and etc. have been designated a protected area by any federal or state authority such as the National Register of Historic Places and so on. Is this USACE connection sufficient to categorize these as 'protected areas'? Hmains (talk) 02:06, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

Could you provide some examples of which articles you're talking about? Fredlyfish4 (talk) 02:21, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

Yes, I was just thinking of that. Oologah Lake Robert S. Kerr Reservoir. Hmains (talk) 02:26, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

And Webbers Falls Lake. I first noticed these in connection with McClellan–Kerr Arkansas River Navigation System facilities, but there are many more. Hmains (talk) 02:30, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

My initial response to this was no, USACE management is not sufficient for to be considered a protected area. However, they do provide a significant level of environmental protection in some circumstances. In my opinion these areas a reservoirs/lakes/landforms first, but I have often seen articles about a geographic feature such as these that also include surrounding protected areas that have not been written as their own article yet (such as XX state park as a subsection within XX reservoir). Fredlyfish4 (talk) 02:43, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

Comment on the WikiProject X proposal

Hello there! As you may already know, most WikiProjects here on Wikipedia struggle to stay active after they've been founded. I believe there is a lot of potential for WikiProjects to facilitate collaboration across subject areas, so I have submitted a grant proposal with the Wikimedia Foundation for the "WikiProject X" project. WikiProject X will study what makes WikiProjects succeed in retaining editors and then design a prototype WikiProject system that will recruit contributors to WikiProjects and help them run effectively. Please review the proposal here and leave feedback. If you have any questions, you can ask on the proposal page or leave a message on my talk page. Thank you for your time! (Also, sorry about the posting mistake earlier. If someone already moved my message to the talk page, feel free to remove this posting.) Harej (talk) 22:47, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

One of your project's articles has been featured

Hello,
Please note that National park, which is within this project's scope, has been selected as one of Today's articles for improvement. The article was scheduled to appear on Wikipedia's Community portal in the "Today's articles for improvement" section for one week, beginning today. Everyone is encouraged to collaborate to improve the article. Thanks, and happy editing!
_{Delivered by Theo's Little Bot at 01:00, 27 October 2014 (UTC) on behalf of the TAFI team}

WikiProject X is live!

Hello everyone!

You may have received a message from me earlier asking you to comment on my WikiProject X proposal. The good news is that WikiProject X is now live! In our first phase, we are focusing on research. At this time, we are looking for people to share their experiences with WikiProjects: good, bad, or neutral. We are also looking for WikiProjects that may be interested in trying out new tools and layouts that will make participating easier and projects easier to maintain. If you or your WikiProject are interested, check us out! Note that this is an opt-in program; no WikiProject will be required to change anything against its wishes. Please let me know if you have any questions. Thank you!

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Harej (talk) 16:56, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

Use of Infobox in articles about Ramsar Sites

Hi, I am currently writing an article about a Ramsar site in Australia and am wondering if it is appropriate to include the Protected areas infobox. My reading of the general subject material suggests that Ramsar sites are outside of the IUCN system of categories. Regards Cowdy001 (talk) 07:35, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

In short, yes it is appropriate to include the protected areas infobox. However, this depends on which Ramsar site you are writing about. If the the site is primarily a lake (see Caddo Lake) or other geographic feature then you should use its corresponding infobox. If the site is part of a larger protected area (see Ash Meadows National Wildlife Refuge) or doesn't seem to fit elsewhere, then use the protected areas infobox (see Francis Beidler Forest). Particular Ramsar sites may or may not have appropriate IUCN designations, but you can leave this field blank in the infobox. In all these cases it is preferred that you designate it as a Ramsar site by including the embedded designation at the bottom of the infobox. Fredlyfish4 (talk) 13:32, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply - I will take the advice on board. Regards Cowdy001 (talk) 18:51, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

Wiki Loves Earth

There is an ongoing photography competition this month on Wikimedia Commons focused on protected areas! --ELEKHH^T 13:04, 14 May 2015 (UTC)

Proposal for a new WikiProject

Hello there, I have just proposed a new WikiProject be started; National Parks of the United Kingdom and I was wondering whether you would be able to come and have a look at the proposal and join the discussion. Thanks for looking. Seagull123 Φ 14:54, 30 June 2015 (UTC)

Protected Planet website

Hi everyone, I recently noticed the use of the Protected Planet (PP) website (http://www.protectedplanet.net/) as reference in an article about a conservation park in Australia. It is reported as being “the online interface for the World Database on Protected Areas (WDPA), a joint project of IUCN and UNEP.” The subsequent use of PP has revealed the following pluses, minuses and interesting aspects.

PLUSES - for information collection purposes, it is useful as protected areas are shown on a map which can be ‘clicked’ to reveal protected area names or identifying details. Within articles, it is useful as an “external link” as the webpage for each protected area has a map which allows the reader to visualise the extent of protection. Also, it is useful where it contains information not available elsewhere (i.e. identifying details associated with private protected areas) and where there is a shortage of “reliable sources” subject to the “reliability” of the content (please refer comments below).

MINUSES - however, it can be unhelpful and/or “unreliable” for reasons such as the following:

National point of view - the minimum information on each page is presented from a national perspective which may not helpful to situations such as Australia where the vast majority of protected areas were controlled by state and territory governments.
Currency - I have found that content can be out of date; in one case so far, a major protected area declared over 2 years ago is not included. This is probably due to PP replying on the relatively slow flow of information passing to IUCN/UNEP from national agencies, sub-national agencies and so on.
Overlapping protected areas - there are circumstances where protected areas created under separate statutes overlap each other with the result that graphical information applicable to only one protected area is shown (and therefore “clickable”) at the expense of the other protected areas.
Content out of align with national policy - further to the comment re “overlapping” above, areas such as Ramsar sites and Biosphere reserves which are shown on PP and which in the case of Australia are not listed on official lists of protected areas published at state and national level (i.e. CAPAD). This leads to problems such as those discussed above in “overlapping”. In one case, a Ramsar site is given priority over the protected areas within its boundary and whose establishment, in at least one case, pre-dates it.

INTERESTING - entries are all linked to the Wikipedia (discussed briefly on http://www.protectedplanet.net/about) even if there is no specific article present at the time. There may be some opportunities in respect to this particular PP initiative. Also, there may be an extra activity required to improve the Wikipedia. In one case, I upgraded an article for a large geographical feature to include a list of protected areas within its extent after I noticed that a number of PP entries linked to that article. Regards Cowdy001 (talk) 00:28, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

Windsor Hill SSSI listed at Requested moves

A requested move discussion has been initiated for Windsor Hill SSSI to be moved to Windsor Hill. This page is of interest to this WikiProject and interested members may want to participate in the discussion here. —RMCD bot 19:44, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

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List of local nature reserves in Somerset at FLC

List of local nature reserves in Somerset, which is tagged as being of interest to this project, is currently nominated for featured list status at Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of local nature reserves in Somerset/archive1. It would be great if you could comment on whether it meets the Wikipedia:Featured list criteria.— Rod ^talk 08:02, 15 October 2015 (UTC)

FAR

I have nominated Banff National Park for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here.--Jarodalien (talk) 00:44, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

WLE 2015 Writing Contest

Hello. I want to invite you to participate in this writing contest about natural sites of Spain and Portugal till December 6, 2015. You can join it in every language. More information in meta:WLE 2015 Writing Contest/en. Thanks. --Millars (talk) 22:59, 15 November 2015 (UTC)

Converting List of New York state parks to a sortable table

Hello all, I am in the process of converting the List of New York state parks article from a bare list to a sortable table, as discussed at that list's talk page. This is being done using the List of Pennsylvania state parks (a featured list) as a model, with some changes. I have mocked-up two versions of the proposed table in my userspace, here.

If anyone from this project has interest and time to review the mock-ups, please do - your feedback would be much appreciated. If not, no worries. Thanks! Antepenultimate (talk) 22:48, 1 January 2016 (UTC)

Militia occupation of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge listed at Requested moves

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Oregon Refuge occupation - name of the group at AFD

Please consider joining the discussion whether to morph article into a redir at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Citizens for Constitutional Freedom NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 13:15, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

Adding all Man and the Biosphere Programme reserves to Wikidata

Hi all

I'm involved in adding all the Man and the Biosphere Programme reserves to Wikidata using Mix n' Match, I hope you can help import the entries for the sites. There are instructions of how to use Mix n' Match in Manual mode here. Creating this catalogue will make it much easier for people to see which articles relating to the programme are still needed in which languages.

Thanks

John Cummings (talk) 10:09, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

Mana Pools listed at Requested moves

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John D. Rockefeller, Jr. Memorial Parkway listed at Requested moves

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Open license descriptions of all UNESCO biosphere reserves is available

Hi all

I'm very happy to say that UNESCO has made the official descriptions of all Biosphere Reserve sites available under a Wikipedia compatible license. Currently around 440 (out of 670) of the Biosphere Reserves do not have an English language Wikipedia article.

These descriptions can be used as the missing Wikipedia articles with very little adaption. I have created a Wikidata query and a set of instructions to help people create the missing articles.

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WikiProject_UNESCO/Create_Biosphere_Reserve_Wikipedia_articles_from_UNESCO_descriptions

If you like you can retweet my tweet about it as well https://twitter.com/mrjohnc/status/733623393233346560

Thanks very much to Navino Evans who did all the data importing into Wikidata (a herculean effort) and Andy Mabbett for helping me with the instructions.

Cheers

John Cummings (talk) 12:35, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

Martin Luther King, Jr. National Historic Site listed at Requested moves

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Martin Luther King, Jr., National Historic Site listed at Requested moves

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List of British Columbia Provincial Parks listed at Requested moves

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Kachhua Sanctuary listed at Requested moves

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Occupation of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge listed at Requested moves

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Should we use image galleries to illustrate ecosystems in parks?

We're having a discussion at Talk:Rocky Mountain National Park#Gallery removed: shall we illustrate the article's sections on ecosystems using image galleries? Feel free to join in the discussion. Thanks! —hike395 (talk) 13:21, 3 November 2016 (UTC)

Creating Biosphere Reserve articles from official UNESCO descriptions

Dear all

UNESCO has made the official descriptions of all Biosphere Reserves available under a CC-BY-SA license. I have created a guide will help you create missing English language Wikipedia articles for the Biosphere Reserves using the official descriptions. Please let me know if you have any questions.

Many thanks

--John Cummings (talk) 12:36, 4 November 2016 (UTC)

Hi John Cummings, While I could not get your guide to work, I was able to do the following four stub class articles being the balance of outstanding articles for Australian biosphere reserves - Barkindji, Mornington Peninsula and Western Port, Hattah-Kulkyne and Murray-Kulkyne, Great Sandy. Regards Cowdy001 (talk) 09:34, 6 November 2016 (UTC)

Cowdy001 wonderful, thanks very much for trying it. Could you tell me what the problem you were having? I want to expand this to more text from other UNESCO programmes so I would really like to understand where it can be made better.

Thanks again

--John Cummings (talk) 20:35, 6 November 2016 (UTC)

I tried again and was able to produce an article for the And Atoll (biosphere reserve). The mistake that I made on my previous attempt was that I did not carefully read the instructions and got distracted with the code on the first window on the first step. The only improvement that I think is required is to mention that ‘visual editing’ needs to be used for ‘Step 3: Attribute the text’ rather than ‘source editing’. I have added the four articles that I recently prepared for biosphere reserves in Australia to Wikidata. I have the following additional comment. The map showing the Biosphere Reserves that do not have English language Wikipedia articles now shows six sites in Australia including the former reserve at Macquarie Island. All of these sites have existing WP articles which have Wikidata IDs that are different from those nominated for the biosphere sites. What is the best course of action? For example, should I create ‘redirects’ for these articles and add these to Wikidata? Regards Cowdy001 (talk) 19:50, 7 November 2016 (UTC)

Cowdy001, thank you very much for the feedback, I've added a line to the instructions with a link to the Source Editor instructions. I'll have a look at the Wikidata items and try and work something out, this is a recurring issue because often the Biosphere Reserve and the protected area inside it often share the same name but are actually different areas (the Biosphere Reserve is larger). --John Cummings (talk) 13:43, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

Sainte-Marguerite River listed at Requested moves

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2016 Community Wishlist Survey Proposal to Revive Popular Pages

Greetings WikiProject Protected areas/Archive 6 Members!

This is a one-time-only message to inform you about a technical proposal to revive your Popular Pages list in the 2016 Community Wishlist Survey that I think you may be interested in reviewing and perhaps even voting for:

Fix and improve Mr.Z-bot's popular pages report

If the above proposal gets in the Top 10 based on the votes, there is a high likelihood of this bot being restored so your project will again see monthly updates of popular pages.

Further, there are over 260 proposals in all to review and vote for, across many aspects of wikis.

Thank you for your consideration. Please note that voting for proposals continues through December 12, 2016.

Best regards, Stevietheman — Delivered: 18:07, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

Squaw Creek National Wildlife Refuge listed at Requested moves

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Martin Luther King Jr. Memorial listed at Requested moves

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Request for comments re: Badlands Twitter controversy

Hi, please see here: Talk:Badlands_National_Park#Twitter_controversy. Thanks! Missvain (talk) 01:37, 25 January 2017 (UTC)

Gamlingay Cinques Common listed at Requested moves

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Notice to participants at this page about adminship

Many participants here create a lot of content, may have to evaluate whether or not a subject is notable, decide if content complies with BLP policy, and much more. Well, these are just some of the skills considered at Wikipedia:Requests for adminship.

So, please consider taking a look at and watchlisting this page:

Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Optional RfA candidate poll

You could be very helpful in evaluating potential candidates, and even finding out if you would be a suitable RfA candidate.

Many thanks and best wishes,

Anna Frodesiak (talk) 01:11, 10 February 2017 (UTC)

Mount Pulag listed at Requested moves

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Commons:Photo challenge May 2017 is "Mammals"

See commons:Commons:Photo challenge/2017 - May - Mammals. It starts in few days. It is going to be difficult, because pets and animals in zoos are excluded, but we hope to get enough new nice images. Please take a look. It is probably going to last two month, not just one.--Alexmar983 (talk) 05:04, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

Falls of Clyde (waterfalls) listed at Requested moves

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Okanagan Falls Provincial Park listed at Requested moves

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Popular pages report

We – Community Tech – are happy to announce that the Popular pages bot is back up-and-running (after a one year hiatus)! You're receiving this message because your WikiProject or task force is signed up to receive the popular pages report. Every month, Community Tech bot will post at Wikipedia:WikiProject Protected areas/Archive 6/Popular pages with a list of the most-viewed pages over the previous month that are within the scope of WikiProject Protected areas.

We've made some enhancements to the original report. Here's what's new:

The pageview data includes both desktop and mobile data.
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We're grateful to Mr.Z-man for his original Mr.Z-bot, and we wish his bot a happy robot retirement. Just as before, we hope the popular pages reports will aid you in understanding the reach of WikiProject Protected areas, and what articles may be deserving of more attention. If you have any questions or concerns please contact us at m:User talk:Community Tech bot.

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Updates to Wikipedia articles about national parks in Africa

On behalf of the nonprofit organization African Parks via the Wyss Foundation, and as part of my work at Beutler Ink, I am working to create and improve several Wikipedia articles related to national parks in Africa. I created this page to describe the scope of the project and provide updates about my progress.

So far, I've submitted an expanded and updated draft for consideration at Talk:Liwonde National Park, and posted a note at WikiProject Malawi. I will likely be posting similar notes at other WikiProject Africa task forces for parks in other countries, once drafts are published.

I invite any Wikipedia editors to follow along and help improve articles by reviewing and responding to the edit requests I post on their talk pages. I'm happy to answer any questions or concerns about my work on my user talk page, or on talk pages belonging to articles in the scope of this project, since I have them watchlisted. Thanks! Inkian Jason (talk) 18:00, 9 October 2017 (UTC)

I would suggest that it would be helpful to save the original source first in your draft and then work on it. That way we can use the history feature to easily compare your updates and expansions to the current article. Rmhermen (talk) 19:10, 9 October 2017 (UTC)

@Rmhermen: Thanks for the suggestion. In most cases, I am creating new drafts completely from scratch, but I will try to remember to do this before saving new drafts in the future. Inkian Jason (talk) 19:42, 9 October 2017 (UTC)

Nkhotakota Game Reserve listed at Requested moves

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Majete Game Reserve listed at Requested moves

A requested move discussion has been initiated for Majete Game Reserve to be moved to Majete Wildlife Reserve. This page is of interest to this WikiProject and interested members may want to participate in the discussion here. —RMCD bot 20:46, 17 November 2017 (UTC)

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Disambiguation links on pages tagged by this wikiproject

Wikipedia has many thousands of wikilinks which point to disambiguation pages. It would be useful to readers if these links directed them to the specific pages of interest, rather than making them search through a list. Members of WikiProject Disambiguation have been working on this and the total number is now below 20,000 for the first time. Some of these links require specialist knowledge of the topics concerned and therefore it would be great if you could help in your area of expertise.

A list of the relevant links on pages which fall within the remit of this wikiproject can be found at http://69.142.160.183/~dispenser/cgi-bin/topic_points.py?banner=WikiProject_Protected_areas

Please take a few minutes to help make these more useful to our readers.— Rod ^talk 18:08, 3 December 2017 (UTC)

Martin Luther King Jr. National Historic Site listed at Requested moves

A requested move discussion has been initiated for Martin Luther King Jr. National Historic Site to be moved to Martin Luther King, Jr. National Historical Park. This page is of interest to this WikiProject and interested members may want to participate in the discussion here. —RMCD bot 15:44, 9 January 2018 (UTC)

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Martin Luther King Jr. National Historical Park listed at Requested moves

A requested move discussion has been initiated for Martin Luther King Jr. National Historical Park to be moved to Martin Luther King, Jr. National Historical Park. This page is of interest to this WikiProject and interested members may want to participate in the discussion here. —RMCD bot 18:59, 19 January 2018 (UTC)

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National Scenic Area (Scotland) listed at Requested moves

A requested move discussion has been initiated for National Scenic Area (Scotland) to be moved to National scenic area (Scotland). This page is of interest to this WikiProject and interested members may want to participate in the discussion here. —RMCD bot 12:17, 7 February 2018 (UTC)

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Odzala National Park listed at Requested moves

A requested move discussion has been initiated for Odzala National Park to be moved to Odzala-Kokoua National Park. This page is of interest to this WikiProject and interested members may want to participate in the discussion here. —RMCD bot 17:30, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

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