Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Food and drink/Archive 6

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Unrefined cane sugars

Turbinado, piloncillo, panela, jaggery, demerara, muscovado, sugarcane juice, rapadura, Steen's cane syrup, Florida Crystals, Sugar in the Raw, chancaca, and sucanat are essentially all unrefined or partially-refined sweeteners derived from sugarcane. Many of them vary in little more than name or region of production. Most of these articles are currently stubs, and should probably all be merged into a single article. I'd probably title the article Unrefined cane sugars. The jaggery and panela articles both list a lot of other synonyms which might be considered for redirects. List of unrefined sweeteners would need to be updated as well.

Erp Erpington (talk) 14:07, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Go for it - there's a lot of this kind of thing in this Project - the brand names in particular need merging but some of the more generic names might be able to justify a whole article on history grounds. Not something I know much about, other than there is quite a lot of history to some of these names, with the whole colonial trade routes thing. FlagSteward (talk) 19:33, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

I need a lot of help to turn Economics of cocoa from a POV anti-slavery article to a *good* article

The article Economics of cocoa was originally at "Labor exploitation in the chocolate industry" - It needs a lot of rewriting and it needs to have other info too besides slavery of boys. WhisperToMe (talk) 04:28, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Without looking at the articles, this sounds like a challenging, fraught endeavor. On the one hand, exploitation might be a somewhat minor aspect of the general subject Economics of cocoa. But, the exploitation might well also be a more notable/significant/interesting subject than the general economics. So, might be very hard to decide on "proper" emphasis. Seems like the exploitation could end up buried in a big bland boring article. -69.87.199.71 (talk) 15:07, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

From my experience the best way to start would be by neutralizing the Weasel words and NPOV statements. Read the article and add the {{fact}}, {{clarifyme}} and {{who}} tags to sections as needed. This will give you the framework for editing it to clean it up. I can help if you would like.

1. Use the {{who}} () tag where statements like Critics claim... are used and said critics are not named;
2. Use the {{huh}} () tag where the statement is not clear;
3. Use the {{fact}} () tag where statements claim something and do not have a proper reference;
4. Use the {{or}} () tag where something appears to be original research.

If you feel a section is beyond help, be bold and delete it.

--- Jeremy (talk) 20:11, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Food plant statistics

Each food plant article should include:

• total annual production/harvest worldwide
• top ten country production figures
• annual consumption per capita in various countries
• import/export flows
• wholesale and retail prices
• production per acre
• inputs: labor, water, fertilizer, weed killer, insecticide per acre and per kilo of food production
• environmental/sustainability aspects
• history of domestication; current split between formal vs. subsistence production/consumption

Until we incorporate such information into the articles, what are the best external sources of such information?

This seems like a good global data resource:

• Food and Agriculture Organization
• Food and Agriculture Organization Corporate Statistical Database
• Plant Search Form -- 2568 plants; detailed data sheet for each foot plant
• FAOSTAT by-country data access

-69.87.199.71 (talk) 15:01, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Anomalous articles

Some of you may have seen my bot-generated report over on the Wine talk page of >10kb Start articles, whose size suggests that they might be ripe for either direct promotion or needing a few refs, images, copyediting or extra information before being B-ified. I've sort of done the same thing for FAD, except the bot timed out about a third of the way through - there's still plenty to be getting on with. The same caveats apply, the only criteria for this list is being a Start and being over 12kb, there may well be good reason for assessing that the FAD content of an article is only worth the current assessment. Anyway, here they are in descending order of size within each classification :

• Top Starts - Sugar, Breakfast, Curry, Chili pepper, Japanese cuisine, Fast food restaurant, Citrus, Sausage, Indian cuisine, Beef, Common bean, Meat, Pork, Vanilla, Yoghurt, Spanish cuisine, Soup, Restaurant, Canning, Cereal, Cooking oil, Fermentation (food), Drinking water, Chinese cuisine, Cooking
• High Starts - Taboo food and drink, Lactose intolerance, Jewish cuisine, Street food, Palm oil, Cuisine of the Philippines, Cuisine of the United States, Food irradiation, German cuisine, Garlic, Cuisine of Hawaii, Korean cuisine, Chocolate bar, Bengali cuisine, Cuisine of Malaysia, Vinegar, Rabbit, Iranian cuisine, Taste, Ficus, Avocado, Pizza, Livestock, Grill (cooking), Sweet potato, Scotch whisky, Cuisine of Vietnam, Cuisine of Singapore, Cuisine of Karnataka, Milkshake, Sauerkraut, Onion, Roman cuisine, Food preservation, Portuguese cuisine, Plantain, Doughnut, Coffeehouse, Pancake, Dumpling, Garden Strawberry, Grape, Cuisine of Thailand, Ginger, Lard, Flour, Popcorn, Pear, Cantonese cuisine, Margarine, Edible mushroom, Supermarket, Peach, Tea (meal), Carrot, Nutmeg, Pineapple, Bagel, Beet, Basil, History of coffee, Sesame oil, Kiwifruit, Swordfish, Dutch cuisine, Genetic engineering, Cinnamon, Asparagus, Cuisine of Cambodia, French toast, Horseradish, Turmeric, Hot chocolate, Rapeseed, Coconut oil, Diner, Entomophagy, Laotian cuisine, Celery, History of salt, Cuisine of Afghanistan, Quinoa, Kellogg Company, Veal, Chicory, Cheesecake, Bourbon whiskey, Cauliflower, Starch, Flavor
• Mid Starts - Regional variations of barbecue, High-fructose corn syrup, Molecular gastronomy, Bottled water, Canna (plant), Horse meat, Cassava, Table manners, Triticale, Sterilization (microbiology), Fast Food Nation, Refrigerator, Goat, Safeway Inc., Thanksgiving, Cuisine of Burma, Cuisine of the Midwestern United States, Local food, Aquaculture, Chili con carne, Cooperative, Oat, Cheesesteak, Empanada, American Chinese cuisine, Bobby Flay, Greek cuisine, Lupin, Anthony Bourdain, Kimchi, History of pizza, Geophagy, James Beard, Satay, Dieting, Offal, Outdoor cooking, Back-to-the-land movement, Maple syrup, Hormel, Carl's Jr., Canola, Persimmon, Yam (vegetable), Glutinous rice, Maltese cuisine, Cuisine of Chile, Pork rind, Economics of cocoa, Cuisine of Puerto Rico, Lay's, Slaughterhouse, Pumpkin, Top Chef, Radish, Pea soup, Tamil cuisine, Wiener schnitzel, Kraft Foods, History of gardening, Caesar salad, Jell-O, Matzo, Chinese noodles, Black pudding, Lychee, Chez Panisse, The Culinary Institute of America, Arby's, Sourdough, ICA meat repackaging controversy, Burrito, Chuck E. Cheese's, Kefir, Jackfruit, Jack Daniel's, Full breakfast, Rhubarb
• Low Starts - Atkins Nutritional Approach, Chipotle Mexican Grill, Camel, Byward Market, Burek, Cassia, Burger Chef, Acorn, Binge drinking, Archer Daniels Midland

As an aside, well done to the Project for clearing the Top Stubs, there's only one left and to be honest I'm still undecided whether dish (food) should be a short Wiktionary definition or a massive multi-page article. ;-/ FlagSteward (talk) 19:31, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

I'll take a look at them, I agree with your statement on dish (food), I seems more like it should be a Wikitionary definition. If it were to be a proper article it would be massive and confusing as each culture could identify so many different items as a "dish."--Chef Christopher Tanner, CEC (talk) 23:01, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Glad to hear it - I thought it was just me as an ordinary punter being ignorant of some vast academic literature on the nature of what a dish is, I thought it might be one of those that with your training you had more thoughts on. OTOH, there probably is an interesting article to be written on the naming of dishes, as Macrackis tries to do in the existing dish article - it ain't a Top importance though. ;-/ And if someone nukes it - then the project has acheived its first milstone, of not Top Stubs outstanding! Then there's just 76 High Stubs to go....

Don't sweat too hard on the Starts - I guess no more than a third will be 'easy' to sort out one way or another (either promoted, promoted after a quick tweak, or dropped altogether from the Project). But it seemed an interesting approach, and just for being 'different' might inspire some activity on the Project. FlagSteward (talk) 00:15, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Automatic banners, assessments

Guys, would it be useful to get SatyrBot working for the Project? It can do a couple of things :

• generate an automated todo list by scanning Project pages for wikify, cleanup, notenglish etc templates.
• set class=Stub on the Talk page of any Unassessed article with a Stub template on the main page
• Create a list of, or add the Project banner to any articles that aren't yet in the Project but are in categories of our choice (typically the appropriate stub categories, but can be others)

Seems to me that these would all be useful things to do although the new article categories have to be quite tightly managed. FlagSteward (talk) 19:41, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Sounds like a great idea.--Chef Christopher Tanner, CEC (talk) 23:02, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Talk:Hummus

Some guidance as to how to categorize this food in sundry geographic/cultural cuisines would be very helpful, Gwen Gale (talk) 10:46, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

For consideration

Regarding Casu marzu, articles meeting the featured article criteria and passing WP:FAC in time can be considered for the April Fools' mainpage, as discussed at Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2008-03-03/Dispatches. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 22:31, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Krispy Kreme Original Glazed Doughnut

Hello everyone. I just started this article, and at this stage it's just a stub, but any help on it, for example prices, more detailed nutritional info etc. would be great. Thanks. Tarcus (talk) 09:56, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Chocolate misidentification

Hi, I was looking at some of the tasks to do for this Wikiproject when I noticed the following: "Bring these Top Importance articles currently at GA status up to FA status: Chocolate..." I went to Talk:Chocolate out of curiosity but noticed that the article was rated B-class rather than GA-class. Should this be corrected on the project page? GlobeGores (talk page | user page) 02:10, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

That was because it was demoted, I'll change it on the project page, thanks.--Chef Tanner (talk) 16:56, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Newsletter and food portal

I apologize for not really getting to either of these this month. I am reeeeally behind in my work on my thesis and I have been competing and judging culinary competitions with the American Culinary Federation so I have been really busy. My edit count is almost nil for this month but I am going to be working on some things this week as the school I teach at is on spring break. So do not dismay (if you like the newsletter and portal) as I will be updating them both for next month. The Food Portal will be changed to use the random portal generator better with many more articles on it so that if I miss a month again it will change randomly on its own other than the news section. On a side note, I got the Wine Portal up to be a featured portal a while ago so there is some great stuff over there.--Chef Tanner (talk) 16:55, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Navigation Idea

I was thinking about doing something like this for the Food/Cooking related T.V. shows, what do you people think. Although i wasn't sure how i should "group them". 1. Each "gene" with a separate navbox.

2. Multiple "genes" per navbox.

Which type would you people prefer? Peachey88 ^{(Talk Page | Contribs)} 12:56, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

I think the lower layout is better, but I really recommend settling for one link per show to avoid cluttering the template too much.

Peter ^Isotalo 13:22, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

I like the second as well, cleaner layout with each genre given its own line. You should add a third grouping of called Instructional with shows such as the French Chef. --- Jeremy (talk) 15:25, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

The project template, help!

Hello, the project template:WikiProject Food and drink does not show the importance of an article in the box, you must scroll down to see the ratings as a category. Does anyone have the template knowledge to correct this? I will give it a crack myself if no one comes forward but I am a bit scared of changing a complex template used in so many places. GameKeeper (talk) 17:51, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, that one's bugged me for ages, I've finally done something about it by converting the FAD banner to use Template:WPBannerMeta, which is a template for creating templates. :-) Which has the big advantage that it doesn't need fluency in Wikitemplate-speak to fiddle with it and add new "features", set against the small disadvantage of a slight loss in flexibility, and forcing you to use "standard" names for eg categories. Give me a shout on my talk page if I've managed to break anything. One benefit should be that now people will be more likely to assess for importance, so less work for the assessment "sweeper-uppers" to do.... FlagSteward (talk) 14:33, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Food and drink: Articles of unclear notability

Hello,

there are currently 27 articles in the scope of this project which are tagged with notability concerns. I have listed them here. (Note: this listing is based on a database snapshot of 12 March 2008 and may be slightly outdated.)

I would encourage members of this project to have a look at these articles, and see whether independent sources can be added, whether the articles can be merged into an article of larger scope, or possibly be deleted. Any help in cleaning up this backlog is appreciated. For further information, see Wikipedia:WikiProject Notability.

If you have any questions, please leave a message on the Notability project page or on my personal talk page. (I'm not watching this page however.) Thanks! --B. Wolterding (talk) 16:01, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

"Cuisine of Country" or "Demonym Cuisine"

In reviewing the Cuisine of Canada article, I decided that it required a navbox, so I added the following one:

I then decided to add this navbox to each of the other articles to which it links. Once I had started doing this, I realized that some of the "cuisine by country" articles used the title "Cuisine of Country" (ex. Cuisine of Canada, Cuisine of Antigua and Barbuda) while others used the title "Demonym Cuisine" (ex. Cuban cuisine, Dominican Republic Cuisine). Before I continue adding the previously mentioned navbox to each of these articles, I feel that it is important to decide which of these two formats is preferable and to rename the appropriate articles, for standardization's sake as well as the navbox. I felt that this would be the most appropriate place to begin a discussion. If you have a preference, please state your opinion so a decision can be made.

Neelix (talk) 12:39, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

This has come up before and it seems the conclusion has ended up with a concensus based on the individual article, not en mass across Wikipedia.--Chef Tanner (talk) 14:08, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Cheese

Cheese has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here.

Jim Beam

Hi there- I'd like to start working a little more on content (I've been a recent changes/wikignome type for some time) and get an article up to GA status. I've decided to at least for now focus my efforts on the Jim Beam article, and I saw your wikiproject tag on the discussion page. I've begun research, but only made 1 qualitative edit so far, however I was wondering if I should post requests for folks to assist evaluating it after I work some more on it - and if so, should I post it here or at Wikipedia:WikiProject Mixed Drinks, or perhaps somewhere else I'm not aware of. Any info would be appreciated! CredoFromStart ^talk 17:08, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Deletion discussion

See Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2008_April_12#Seasonal_cuisine. Badagnani (talk) 22:55, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Assessment of article Food cart

Should it be Start-Class, or remain a stub? Basketball110^Talk 18:51, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

I would lean to keeping it as a stub, but it is on the fence. I personally think it needs a little more to be considered a start, but as I said that is only me. --Jeremy ( Blah blah...) 19:48, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Anyone else? I would like to gather a few opinions, and see where it needs to be fixed, or what needs to be added. Basketball110^Talk 22:45, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

I would say it is a stub, it really doesn't go into much detail, there needs to be more information on this topic although I find the title a bit broad.--Chef Tanner (talk) 01:43, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Attempt to split Celery (plant) from Celery (food)

See Talk:Celery. Badagnani (talk) 07:24, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Attempt to split Sugar-apple (fruit) from Sugar-apple (tree)

And again; see Annona squamosa and Sugar-apple. People, plese watch this; it could happen anywhere (including Banana or Peach) if no comment is made. Badagnani (talk) 18:18, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Odd new category

Is Category:Low-carb packaged foods a legitimate category? Badagnani (talk) 00:02, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

It seems sort of a stretch. I think I saw Salami on there which isn't necessarily packaged, in my garde manger kitchen we produce and hang fresh salami which is obviously not packaged. I think this cat needs to go up for review.--Chef Tanner (talk) 01:45, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

I fail to see how many of the articles currenly in this category, such as walnut, should be called packaged foods. Of course they can be packaged, but so could anything. Deli nk (talk) 17:43, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

French Laundry up for deletion

Someone has placed French Laundry up for deletion. The WP:AFD discussion is at Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/French_Laundry. —EncMstr (talk) 04:58, 27 April 2008 (UTC)