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Over-capitalization

I notice a lot of articles include "... Men's Basketball Tournament" and "... Women's Basketball Tournament" in their titles, but I have a hard time finding sources that call them that, or that capitalize those terms in sentence context as WP:NCCAPS requires. Any objection if I move those to lowercase "men's basketball tournament", etc., as I find them? I've done a few already (see my logs). Dicklyon (talk) 03:42, 15 August 2022 (UTC)

My take is that "... Men's Basketball Tournament" and "... Women's Basketball Tournament" are descriptive titles for Wikipedia disambiguation purposes. They are not proper nouns (example). Generally these are referred to simply as "NCAA Tournament", "Big Ten Tournament", etc., and the context is implied by the source based on newspaper/website organization, etc. As those titles read fine without capitalization, I think it's fine top convert them.—Bagumba (talk) 05:38, 15 August 2022 (UTC)
Exactly. It looks like there may be a few thousand of these, so I'd need to have a strong consensus to ask for bot help to move them. I can start by doing more in-article case fixing with JWB, and some moves by hand to see if wider exposure attracts any discussion. Thanks for your support. Dicklyon (talk) 01:12, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
I went ahead and moved the March Madness one to NCAA Division I men's basketball tournament, but I incorrectly mentioned "Wikiproject Basketball" in my edit summaries; dang it. Now I need to make another edit to direct any reactions to here. Dicklyon (talk) 01:26, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
To note, even ESPN doesn't consistently capitalize the simpler "NCAA tournament" (see here).—Bagumba (talk) 01:37, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
I've moved and editted a bunch more. I don't expect much pushback, but will wait and see. Dicklyon (talk) 04:05, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
I don't know. I think the full names of these tournaments may be proper nouns. Whatever the case, this is a not a basketball-specific issue, so consistency should be applied to other sports as well. Jweiss11 (talk) 04:40, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
Do you see any sources in support of the idea that those are the full names of the tournaments? I don't. You're right, I see, that there are some other sports with the same issue, and yes let's get to that, too. Dicklyon (talk) 17:45, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
I've just now notified the wikiprojects involved in articles like NCAA Division I Men's Soccer Tournament and NCAA Division I Men's Ice Hockey Tournament, which use this same pattern, to join the discussion here. Dicklyon (talk) 18:06, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
Agreed. If they are nouns and not proper names they should not be capitalised. Nehme1499 18:08, 18 August 2022 (UTC)

This topic should cover all sports, not just college basketball. I've no preference for upper-casing or lower-casing. I only ask that we apply the style consistently, across the related pages. GoodDay (talk) 18:13, 18 August 2022 (UTC)

PS: Perhaps this entire discussion would be better held at WP:SPORTS? Just a suggestion. GoodDay (talk) 18:19, 18 August 2022 (UTC)

I looked some more and found some in volleyball, in addition to the soccer and ice hockey I mentioned above. The great majority are in basketball, so maybe this is the best place to discuss. I'll notify the volleyball project. Dicklyon (talk) 20:41, 18 August 2022 (UTC)

Using this query, I made this list of about 3200 titles, more than two-thirds of which are basketball: Dicklyon (talk) 16:12, 19 August 2022 (UTC)

List of affected titles (there will be others that extend the pattern)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Hearing no objection, I'll go ahead and seek bot help to do the moves, then I'll do cleanup with JWB. Dicklyon (talk) 23:50, 19 August 2022 (UTC)

Dicklyon, I would slow down on the bot requests. I'm finding lost of sources capitalizing these tournaments: [1], [2], [3]. Jweiss11 (talk) 01:38, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
I'm listening. Are you saying you think these are the proper names of the events, and are consistently capitalized in sources? For a few of them? Or a lot of them? Dicklyon :::(talk) 02:20, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
Yes, these are clearly treated as proper names in the examples I've given. Are they "consistently" capitalized? I don't know, but they're capitalized a lot. I'm sure there are other examples where sources say "ACC tournament". But a mix of proper and generic references doesn't negate the existence of proper name at the core of the subject, e.g. mentions of "the majors" or "baseball" do not negate the proper noun status of "Major League Baseball". The burden of proof lies on you to show that a name change is warranted for each case. Jweiss11 (talk) 02:43, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
In general, the occurrence and capitalization of the phrase "Men's Basketball Tournament" is so rare that the burden of proof should be on finding exceptions to the conclusion that these titles are descriptive, not proper names. Is "AAC Men's Basketball Tournament" or "AAC Women's Basketball Tournament" such an exception, due to being found in a couple of newspaper articles? Let's look at things near that: Web search might incline you to capitalize "AAC Men's Basketball Coaches" and "... Championship" and "... Standings" and "... Schedule" and "... Matchups" along with "AAC Men's Basketball Tournament". But if you search news, you'll find lowercase at least as often as capped. In Book Search there's pretty much nothing. So it doesn't seem to be close to the threshold of "consistently capitalized in reliable sources", or even WP:COMMONNAME for these events. Are there other possible exceptions? That's what I'm looking for. Dicklyon (talk) 04:06, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
Re Major League Baseball, that one is quite common and has reached about 75% capped in sources, and is clearly the proper name of an actual organization. Not much analogy to what we're looking at here. Dicklyon (talk) 04:27, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
"ACC Men's Basketball Coaches", i.e. the coaches of men's basketball in the ACC is not a proper noun. But the ACC Men's Basketball Tournament is a specific annual event with its own proper name. It's not just a couple of newspaper articles--those are just three I found in a few minutes. It's likely hundreds for this one tournament and many thousands when you consider all tournaments implicated here. Per the MLB, your comparison is ignoring simply "majors" and "baseball"--generic references to the MLB, which can't be easily parsed out from other uses of of "majors" and "baseball" in a quick search like this. Major League Baseball has many events and other entities with proper names, e.g. Major League Baseball All-Star Game or the World Series. Similarly, conferences like the Atlantic Coast Conference (ACC) have many events with proper names, e.g. the ACC Men's Basketball Tournament. Jweiss11 (talk) 05:25, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
If "ACC Men's Basketball Tournament is a specific annual event with its own proper name", then we'd expect to see it consistently used thus, and capitalized, in sources. But that's not what we see. Even the site that promotes watching it online calls it many different things, all on the same page: "ACC Men's Basketball Tournament", "ACC Tournament", "ACC Basketball Tournament", "ACC Tournament Championship". They cap them all, along with Online and a few other things important to their message. There's not much indication that any of these terms is the actual official or proper name of the event, which is probably why other sources are also so variable. ESPN doesn't cap it. Neither does Greenville News or WRAL or Boston College or Tar Heel Times or Blue Ridge Public Radio or lots of other places. And of all the references cited on ACC Men's Basketball Tournament, only theacc.com uses this name, it appears. This doesn't feel to me like sources view this as a proper name. Dicklyon (talk) 23:11, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
@Jweiss11: If you're not convinced, or if others have objections, we can do a multi-RM discussion at ACC Men's Basketball Tournament, and include a selection of other AAC and other basketball articles, to see if we arrive at consensus, with exceptions or not. Dicklyon (talk) 23:57, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
@Jweiss11: I'll take the silence to mean you have no further objection re ACC Men's Basketball Tournament as long as we're consistent. Dicklyon (talk) 02:45, 23 August 2022 (UTC)
I still think these are all proper names. A move discussion would be good. I think would should try to get a broader consensus before we start renaming over 1,000 articles and tons of associated categories and templates. Jweiss11 (talk) 02:50, 23 August 2022 (UTC)
OK, I launched an RM discussion at Talk:ACC Men's Basketball Tournament, where you can explain why you think some of these are proper names. Dicklyon (talk) 04:48, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

Let's take this to Talk:ACC Men's Basketball Tournament#Requested move 23 August 2022. Dicklyon (talk) 05:15, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

Mostly done

After the above-linked RM completed as "Move", we got a bot to move over 3000 articles, and I've done about 10,000 or so cleanup edits, which has been a long slog with some errors along the way, and still a bunch to do. Finally got all the related basketball categories moved (or almost all), but not yet all the templates (about 66 to go; hoping to get bot help, but I could do them by hand). Once those are moved, there's still a bunch more over-capitalization to fix. And I'm focusing on basketball for now, but will get back to soccer, ice hockey, etc. eventually. Some relevant discussion is at User talk:Tol/Archives/2024/09#Redirects needed (that's the operator of TolBot). Along the way I've been fixing some, but by no means all, of the other commonly over-capped phrases in basketball articles (like First Round, Third Place Game, and lots more). Please, if you see any redlinks or other problems I have caused, let me know. Dicklyon (talk) 22:53, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

Dicklyon thanks for you all your efforts here. But I'm scratching my head on some of your cleanup edits though. What is the point this edit [4], which produced red links? Why not just link to proper target, 1956 NCAA basketball tournament, and format accordingly? Also, I see you are changing the capitalization of things like "first round". I presume "Sweet Sixteen", "Elite Eight", "Final Four" stay capitalized? Jweiss11 (talk) 03:01, 22 September 2022 (UTC)
J, thanks for asking. The point is that I'm going through thousands of articles quickly, using replacment patterns that I've developed to be almost always correct, but sometimes they result in unanticipated errors such as unintended redlinks. I'm watching for unusual results, but checking every edit for redlinks would be about 10x slower than what I'm doing. So I let a few mistakes slip through, usually in patterns that are amenable to quick bulk fixing with JWB once they get pointed out to me. Some of these were from the redirect problem discussed at User talk:Tol/Archives/2024/09#Redirects needed; I just fixed some of those by hand and will check again after that process completes. Dicklyon (talk) 03:43, 23 September 2022 (UTC)
Skipping the redirect and linking directly to the proper target would be ideal, I agree. The reason I don't is that I don't know how to semi-automate the detection of redirects and their targets in a regex-replacement setting. A good bot writer could do, I'd bet. Dicklyon (talk) 23:49, 14 October 2022 (UTC)
And yes, things like "Sweet Sixteen", "Elite Eight", "Final Four" are apparently trademarks, while "first round" and "second round" are generic. Dicklyon (talk) 23:47, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

Anything else?

After a few intense weeks with lots more downcasing of "tournament" and lots of other stuff, I'm about done for now. There's still a lot of over-capitalization in table headings, in sentences, etc., but not in huge pattern clusters that are easy to find and fix. If anyone sees anything I messed up, or has other patterns that they'd like to see worked on, please do let me know. Dicklyon (talk) 23:42, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

@Dicklyon: The title of the infobox for general tournament pages like Pac-12 Conference women's basketball tournament needs to be changed to lowercase, along with the subheader "College Basketball Tournament". —Bagumba (talk) 05:51, 18 October 2022 (UTC)
Yes. Like this. I'll try to generalize... Dicklyon (talk) 05:08, 19 October 2022 (UTC)
I see about 300 pages using that particular infobox, in various sports. This will take a while... Dicklyon (talk) 05:24, 19 October 2022 (UTC)
Done. Dicklyon (talk) 17:06, 19 October 2022 (UTC)

Request for input on naming convention - Arkansas–Pine Bluff Golden Lions and Golden Lady Lions

There is open conversation about the naming convention for UAPB's women's team name at Talk:Arkansas–Pine Bluff Golden Lions and Golden Lady Lions#Requested move 14 October 2022. If you have any input please chime in there. Thank you. SportsGuy789 (talk) 18:05, 21 October 2022 (UTC)

WP:CBBALL project page question

Does anyone object if the WikiProject's name gets slightly modified from "Wikipedia talk:WikiProject College Basketball" (with a capital B) to "Wikipedia talk:WikiProject College basketball" with a lower case b? I am trying to get the project template fixed to show it this way but a gatekeeper is claiming this uncontroversial request needs consensus (discussion here). Any objections? SportsGuy789 (talk) 15:04, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

FAR for Tyrone Garland

User:Buidhe has nominated Tyrone Garland for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets the featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" in regards to the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 05:34, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

Individual game summaries for each regular season game

I see that some team season pages have a section with individual game summaries for each regular season game e.g. 2022–23 UCLA Bruins men's basketball team#Game summeries, 2022–23 Ohio State Buckeyes men's basketball team#Game summeries. Given that the pages already have a standard table for the schedule with basic stats, (e.g. 2022–23 UCLA Bruins men's basketball team#Schedule and results), this seems like overkill and WP:NOTSTATS for 30+ games. This isn't like shorter football seasons, where individual games have more significance, and one might want prose on each game. I propose removing them for basketball.—Bagumba (talk) 07:36, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

Given the WP:SILENCE and WP:NOCONSENSUS for inclusion, I removed them.—Bagumba (talk) 13:08, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

Vital Articles level 5 basketball players discussion

Here at Vital articles level 5, I have started a discussion that people from this project might be interested in participating in. It is at this link: Wikipedia_talk:Vital_articles/Level/5#Add_Bob_McAdoo_remove_Pau_Gasol.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 04:11, 18 November 2022 (UTC)

New ESPNU merger request

I have nominated ESPNU College Basketball for merging - see here for more information. 100.7.44.80 (talk) 20:28, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

GenQuest has formally started the discussion - see here if you'd like to participate. 100.7.44.80 (talk) 01:48, 19 January 2023 (UTC)

Realgm.com discussion

Please join the discussion on this source at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Basketball_Association#Realgm.com.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 13:58, 5 February 2023 (UTC)

High School Years

I was in a discussion at User_talk:SportsGuy789#High_school_years about why we don't put high school years in parentheses like we do for college years. My thinking was that if we have this information, why not present it in the infobox? What is the reasoning as to why this information should not be included? TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 22:29, 18 February 2023 (UTC)

It is too clunky to have school name, years and city, state. The years should be discussed in prose in the high school section Rikster2 (talk) 00:41, 19 February 2023 (UTC)
What is the reasoning for why it *should* be included? "Because we have it" is not a reason for including it in the infobox. What does the reader gain from the infobox by seeing the years that a player was at a high school, or the multiple different high schools they may have attended, the vast majority of which are not well-known? At least professional and college teams are limited, and the vast majority of them are well-known. The overwhelming number of high schools are not known by the average reader, and seeing high schools listed adds nothing of value. fuzzy510 (talk) 01:53, 19 February 2023 (UTC)
Agree w/Rikster2 and Fuzzy510. But to add: infoboxes are supposed to list the most relevant, pared-down, immediately necessary information for a reader to gain an understanding of the article's subject. For basketball biographies, high school years add no value to the very limited infobox real estate. College years are relevant because they provide context as to when a player played at the highest amateur level of the sport, and also provide a framework as to when that player was (approximately) eligible for the NBA draft. High school years do not create additional value; in the prose, sure, but not in the infobox where "(City, State)" are already listed after them. It's superfluous info at best for the infobox. SportsGuy789 (talk) 20:25, 19 February 2023 (UTC)

Michigan State - Minnesota cancellation/postponement

The 2023 Michigan State University shooting caused a game between 2022–23 Michigan State Spartans men's basketball team and 2022–23 Minnesota Golden Gophers men's basketball team to be either cancelled or postponed. Is the game going to be made up? Based on the schedules of the two teams it would be impossible to make up the game without at least one team having to play on back to back nights or reschedule another game.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 04:07, 24 February 2023 (UTC)

None of us can possibly know that, Tony, but whenever a determination is made, we can update the articles accordingly. In the meantime, this area is WP:NOTAFORUM to discuss things like this. fuzzy510 (talk) 04:42, 24 February 2023 (UTC)
User:Fuzzy510 Many secondary source articles use the word postponed and many use the work cancelled. I don't see how WP:NOTAFORUM is relevant. I am trying to assess whether we have the proper content in the articles right now.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 05:28, 24 February 2023 (UTC)
If it's not definitive, why wouldn't we just call it "postponed" for now until a formal announcement is made otherwise?—Bagumba (talk) 05:37, 24 February 2023 (UTC)
Both institutions involved have the game currently listed as postponed. Unless there has been a recent article (which is to say, not reporting on the initial fact that the game is not being played as scheduled) stating that the game has been cancelled, it would be inappropriate to say that the game is anything other than postponed. fuzzy510 (talk) 05:43, 24 February 2023 (UTC)

Hampton Pirates/Lady Pirates

Is there a reason that Hampton Pirates men's basketball is as it is, but Hampton Lady Pirates basketball exists? Which one is correct, and which one needs to be moved (men's to no gender tag, or Lady Pirates to Pirates women's)? fuzzy510 (talk) 21:40, 23 February 2023 (UTC)

ESPN, Fox Sports, and Hampton themselves refer to the team as Lady Pirates. A GHit result shows 3,030 results for "Hampton Lady Pirates basketball" versus 1,470 for "Hampton Pirates women's basketball". The only legit source which contradicts the use of Lady Pirates is the NCAA, whose page refers to the team as simply Pirates (link). So, I guess Lady Pirates is correct? SportsGuy789 (talk) 15:46, 24 February 2023 (UTC)
The inclusion of "men's" is probably to combat gender bias that "<school> <mascot> basketball" is assumed to be the men's program. On the other hand, "Lady Pirates" presumably is WP:COMMONNAME over "Pirates women's". —Bagumba (talk) 01:22, 25 February 2023 (UTC)

Tourney parameter in season infobox

I'd appreciate any feedback at a discussion I started at {{Infobox college sports team season}}. We don't seem to be using the tourney or tourney_result parameters as the template documentation suggests. Hoof Hearted (talk) 16:16, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

Leaders

With the COVID redshirt, I notice that Pete Maravich NCAA career scoring record listed at List of NCAA Division I men's basketball career scoring leaders is under assault. Is nothing else under assault or are the other pages not being updated?--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 19:47, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

I'm not sure that they've been updated for a minute, and could probably use some checking up. --fuzzy510 (talk) 20:02, 14 February 2023 (UTC)
User:Dale Arnett and I are religiously updating all of the stats pages, all it takes is a quick glance at editing history to see this. Not sure what all of the fuss is about. Note, it makes no sense in the least to update the career games played leaders page, because it's going to be a total editing shitshow from here until the end of the year. It'll be much easier to just do one massive end-of-season update. SportsGuy789 (talk) 04:01, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
Now that you called my attention to it, I see that the NCAA career records were updated December 5.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 14:04, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
My apologies, and thank you for that. And I agree, one big end-of-season update makes much more sense. fuzzy510 (talk) 14:18, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
I agree with one end-of-season update for the games played list. The other lists are much easier to keep up with. The number of active players on various leaders lists that I've been keeping up with (or, in some cases, created): — Dale Arnett (talk) 20:31, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
* Men's career scoring leaders: One (Antoine Davis). Davis is also the only active player who's an all-time conference scoring leader, and one of only two who (to my knowledge) is his program's all-time leader (Darius McGhee being the other).
* Men's career three-point leaders: Three (Davis, McGhee, Umoja Gibson).
* Women's career three-point leaders: Two (Taylor Robertson, Taylor Mikesell).
* Women's career field-goal percentage leaders: One (Monika Czinano).

Automatic_qualifiers

Does anyone else feel it would be useful if 2023_NCAA_Division_I_men's_basketball_tournament#Automatic_qualifiers had an additional column for tournament championship date?-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 22:33, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

What value does that information have to justify its inclusion in the tournament article? fuzzy510 (talk) 22:49, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
I find myself trying to figure out when more bids will be determined. Having a dates column would enable us to sort to figure things out. My team (Michigan) is on the bubble (and may have fallen off of it today). I am trying to figure out how many top conference tournament seeds were upset.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 03:18, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
I can see why that would be useful for you, but I'm not seeing why that's a useful inclusion on this year's tournament's main page. fuzzy510 (talk) 04:04, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
It's clutter for someone who reads this years, even weeks from now.—Bagumba (talk) 07:04, 7 March 2023 (UTC)

NIT bracket formatting

Since the NIT uses a campus play format where the higher seed is the home team, why do we present brackets with the high seed above the low seed? Usually the home team is at the bottom when scores are presented in two rows.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 17:20, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

When scores are displayed, sure, but that's not a common principle when displaying brackets at all. Common bracket display involves having the higher-seeded team displayed on the top line, regardless of where the games are being played. -fuzzy510 (talk) 17:36, 13 March 2023 (UTC)
They're probably referring to something like 2021–22 NFL playoffs#Bracket, which isn't readily apparent that the home team is on the bottom, unless you happen to be a fan enough to know the stadiums. If the home team tidbit really was to be effectively conveyed, it'd just use a simple symbol, or at least explain in a key. —Bagumba (talk) 10:09, 15 March 2023 (UTC)

Using nowrap

I saw this line at Drew Timme, but have seen elsewhere before:

{{nowrap|2× Consensus second-team [[NCAA Men's Basketball All-Americans|All-American]] ([[2021 NCAA Men's Basketball All-Americans|2021]], [[2022 NCAA Men's Basketball All-Americans|2022]])}}

Its bad to nowrap an entire line; it's meant for small snippets. Per the {{nowrap}} documentation: Use this template sparingly...The size of the nowrapped text becomes the minimum width of that paragraph and that can negatively influence the ability of the page to adapt to smaller screens, or alternate representations of the content.

We can't assume everyone has got a wide screen, or easier yet, think mobiles. This just makes for a potentially giant infobox. Generally, let the platform decide how and when to wrap. —Bagumba (talk) 09:57, 15 March 2023 (UTC)

I think that is the work of a specific user. Probably best to direct them here or address on their talk page. Rikster2 (talk) 12:59, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
For Timme, I traced it to this edit by SportsGuy789—Bagumba (talk) 14:22, 15 March 2023 (UTC)

Source request

What is the most official source for 2021–22_NCAA_Division_I_men's_basketball_season#Statistical_leaders?--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 01:18, 15 March 2023 (UTC)

What is the specific question/concern? Is it that year or official stats for any year? Rikster2 (talk) 01:37, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
I am working on Foster Loyer. It would be nice if that year's section had a citation. I can find other citations for the prose in his article.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 21:21, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
If you ever need reliable sources for yearly stats leaders, use https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/leaders (scroll down). For Loyer specifically, see https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/leaders/men/ft-pct-player-yearly.html. SportsGuy789 (talk) 13:34, 16 March 2023 (UTC)

TfD notice: Big Ten Conference Women's Basketball Defensive Player of the Year navbox

A template that is of interest to this project has been listed for deletion. If you feel strongly enough to chime in, here is the TfD: Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2023 March 16#Template:Big Ten Conference Women's Basketball Defensive Player of the Year navbox. Thanks. SportsGuy789 (talk) 16:19, 16 March 2023 (UTC)

Help with All-America team article formatting

A while back someone added a navigation infobox to the yearly All-American articles (example). I like the change but think it would look better if the picture montage could be inside the infobox instead of below it. Does anyone have the skill to make the change? If someone can do the 2023 article I can implement the change to the others. Rikster2 (talk) 23:51, 15 March 2023 (UTC)

@Frietjes: – might you be able to take a look? SportsGuy789 (talk) 00:14, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
Rikster2, like this? FYI, you might want to make sure that the sidebar/images are appearing on mobile. if not, you can switch from sidebar to infobox. Frietjes (talk) 15:45, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
Thanks. The sidebar does not show up in the mobile version. Is it as simple as moving this to an infobox template? Or creating one? Sorry, I am not very knowledgeable around these aspects of WP. Rikster2 (talk) 16:49, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
But yes, the look is perfect Rikster2 (talk) 16:50, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
Rikster2, the most straightforward solution for mobile would be to use infobox award, but there may be another infobox that's more appropriate. Frietjes (talk) 19:52, 16 March 2023 (UTC)

Stats table request

Can someone do a college stat table for Foster Loyer.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 12:53, 17 March 2023 (UTC)

Relevant discussion regarding College of Charleston vs. Charleston

There's a renaming discussion taking place for College of Charleston Cougars that I think is probably relevant to this project's interests. -fuzzy510 (talk) 18:22, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

Sorting of conference standings...revisited

I'd like to gauge the feelings of project members about how teams should be sorted on conference standings. I and many others I've seen have traditionally used the following data to sort teams in the lists: Conference winning percentage, Number of conference wins (with consideration for 0–0 teams being placed at .500 and sorting winless teams in order of fewest losses), Overall winning percentage, Number of overall wins (same considerations as conference wins data), and Alphabetical order. Notably, most (but not all) conference websites I've looked at appear to use this method.

But now with regular seasons wrapping up, a common issue has once again arisen where some other editors prefer to sort standings based on conference tournament tiebreakers. I don't like this method as well, as tiebreakers only exist for tournament seeding purposes and generally aren't intended to be applied to standings.

I also think there should be a single standard for sorting regardless of when an update is being made, to reduce confusion. Tournament seeding tiebreakers are meaningless until the end of the regular season, so it's essentially a waste of time (and original research, really) to apply them at every update throughout the season rather than being able to do a simple scan of the wins and losses in the list to sort them on a daily basis. (Conference tournament tiebreakers can't even be applied at all before conference play begins.)

I found this discussion from 14 years ago where there wasn't really any resolution, so I'm hoping we can try again to achieve a consensus to guide editors trying to keep these standings updated. Thoughts? WildCowboy (talk) 20:00, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

For clarification - do the conferences that use the criteria that you listed then go by the conference tournament tiebreakers at the end of the season if there is a discrepancy? Or will they list the final standings true to the order you listed, even if that means the standings do not also serve as a sequential list of the tournament seedings? fuzzy510 (talk) 20:32, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
I have always sorted by 1.) conference winning percentage, 2.) overall winning percentage, 3. alphabetical.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 22:32, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
Most of the ones I've seen do not use tournament tiebreakers at any point when it comes to standings, so even at the end of the season they don't necessarily match the tournament seed order. WildCowboy (talk) 22:34, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
In that case, yes, I support wholeheartedly trying to standardize the standings (heh) on that set of criteria. fuzzy510 (talk) 22:48, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

Appreciate the feedback here. Would love it if a few more folks could weigh in so we have a stronger consensus to rely on whenever this issue comes up as it does at the end of pretty much every regular season. WildCowboy (talk) 03:21, 20 March 2023 (UTC)

I'd go by reliable sources. For example, in the Pac-12 in 2021–22, Washington State, Oregon, and Washington were 11–9 in the conference. On p. 11 of the Pac-12 record book, they show as tied for fifth place. On p. 8, which shows the standings by year, the tied teams are sorted by overall record.—Bagumba (talk) 04:09, 20 March 2023 (UTC)

Gerry McNamara

Can someone who knows international basketball and minor league basketball fill in the playing career section of Gerry McNamara's infobox.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 06:08, 20 March 2023 (UTC)

Help understanding NCAA record book

It seems that the NCAA single-season free throw percentage leader lists have had varying qualifications. I do not understand why Foster Loyer does not qualify based on his 2021-22 season. here is a 2010 record book (see page 20) with a lot of asterisks. here is a 2023 record book (see page 20, what are the asterisks for?). Why doesn't Loyer qualify for the single-season all-time leaders?--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 00:34, 20 March 2023 (UTC)

The free throw percentage list on page 20 of the 2023 record book is in the freshman record section, and Loyer wasn't a freshman that year. The overall single season record list for that is on page 15 and he just missed with 93.5 in 2021–22 while it takes 93.8 to make the list. As for daggers in the 2010 record book, which I assume is what you meant by asterisks, those denote season leaders. So like JJ Redick is 4th on the list but he doesn't get a dagger because he didn't lead the country in 2004. Blake Ahearn with the overall record was the leader that year. WildCowboy (talk) 03:18, 20 March 2023 (UTC)
Thx.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 11:21, 20 March 2023 (UTC)

Request for third opinion

There is an ongoing dispute involving @Jmg38 and @Legolover26 on Talk:NCAA Division I men's basketball tournament upsets#Trivia only when nothing else to say regarding whether a discussion of games in which a 16 seed nearly beat a 1 seed should be removed from that page. Legolover26 (talk) 17:24, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

I would be more worried about how undersourced it is and whether it passes WP:NLIST. While I don't doubt there are significant sources of some sort of lists of NCAA upsets, right now it looks alot like original research. Alvaldi (talk) 18:10, 19 March 2023 (UTC)
WP:NLIST isn't applicable here, because it's not a standalone list. It's purely a content dispute, and agree about the sourcing concern. —Bagumba (talk) 04:23, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

"Head men's basketball coaches" vs. "Men's basketball head coaches"

I've been going through and starting to create lists of each college's head coaches to fill some of the red links on the navboxes, and I've noticed that the nomenclature that's used for those lists is somewhat inconsistent. The red links on the templates all point to "List of (team name) (men's) basketball head coaches," but a couple of other pages have been created using the verbiage "List of (team name) head (men's) basketball coaches." Additionally, our formatting clashes with the college football coaching lists - for example, List of Alabama Crimson Tide head football coaches, where the sport comes after "head."

What do people think here? I think the way we have it set up is probably proper, but I think it's worth discussing. fuzzy510 (talk) 10:06, 25 February 2023 (UTC)

@Fuzzy510: I'm not a grammar expert, so not sure if there are any applicable rules here in that regard. In its absence, it seems like the most general concept is that of a head coach. So I'd tend to prefer "<team> <sport> head coach" —Bagumba (talk) 05:08, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

Redshirt

Can someone remind me about the rules regarding redshirting. Why is it that if you play 10 games early in the season you are eligible for a redshirt, but if you play 4 games late in the season, you are not. Specific case for my curiosity is Joey Baker.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 03:06, 19 February 2023 (UTC)

In his case, I also need to know are graduate transfers limited to one season?-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 03:29, 19 February 2023 (UTC)
For grad transfers, they can play more than one season. For example, Cameron Johnson played two at UNC as a GT. Rikster2 (talk) 11:54, 19 February 2023 (UTC)
Thanks User:Rikster2!! O.K. back to the original question then. Why doesn't Joey Baker have any eligibility remaining?-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 13:43, 19 February 2023 (UTC)
in his freshman season at Duke, Coach K activated him too late in the season for it to count as a redshirt year (link). Rikster2 (talk) 13:48, 19 February 2023 (UTC)
So I have read the article and I don't understand. Playing 10 games in November and December does not burn a redshirt, but playing one in February and eventually a total of four late season games does? Why? Why does it matter that it was February? Is there a redshirt date during the season?--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 19:31, 19 February 2023 (UTC)
why don’t you Google the NCAA record book? There is a point in the season after which you can’t play games and still redshirt. I don’t know exactly where the cutoff is but that’s the reason. Rikster2 (talk) 20:37, 19 February 2023 (UTC)
In basketball, you burn a redshirt if you see *any* action. I don't know who you are talking about with regards to 10 games played and still redshirting, but that was almost certainly a medical redshirt, or some other hardship waiver. fuzzy510 (talk) 02:05, 20 February 2023 (UTC)
Definitely not true. Lots of guys play lots of games and find themselves getting a medical redshirt. I was not sure that there is an actual deadline after which a single game burns an entire year. Here are a couple examples of redshirts with lots of games played Spike Albrecht, Jon Horford, David Lighty.— Preceding unsigned comment added by TonyTheTiger (talk • contribs) 16:18, 20 February 2023 (UTC)
Baker was never injured, it is different when an injury drives the redshirt. Again, I would encourage you to do the research by googling the NCAA basketball rule book. I would think that would spell it out exactly Rikster2 (talk) 20:54, 20 February 2023 (UTC)
As Rikster said, a medical redshirt allows for a redshirt to be awarded after the fact when a player doesn't play due to injury concerns. Joey Baker was never injured, he planned to sit out for the year and then didn't. fuzzy510 (talk) 15:14, 21 February 2023 (UTC)
  • Comment/Proposal Should we include the redshirt year as part of the years played for a college within the infobox? While the player didn't play in any games, they did occupy a roster spot and, if applicable, use up a scholarship during that year while likely taking part in team activities and practices. Best, GPL93 (talk) 00:49, 22 February 2023 (UTC)
For instance, Obi Toppin's, "college" label in the infobox would say 2017–2020 instead of 2018–2020. I feel like the current way that college year are listed may give readers who are less familiar with college sports the impression that the player spent the year away from the sport entirely. Best, GPL93 (talk) 00:57, 22 February 2023 (UTC)
I am against this because I think most readers are mainly curious what years the player actually competed/what teams they were on. In an infobox, which only can give an overview, this feels most accurate. You also get into issues with the many years of freshman ineligibility where players only got 3 years to play. Insinuating that those guys competed 4 years for State U feels way off to me. The prose should explain the details of their eligibility journey, if relevant. Also, there are other ways that playing in a real game matters, like if they never do the college shouldn't appear in the infobox and the player category does not get applied. Having redshirt years listed for new players just confuses the issue for new editors IMO Rikster2 (talk) 14:19, 22 February 2023 (UTC)
Oppose The only time this is appropriate is when the redshirt is in the middle years like Rob Pelinka.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 19:52, 22 February 2023 (UTC)
Oppose per Rikster2. Especially for when the NCAA didn't allow freshmen to compete on the varsity level, but they were ostensibly "on" the roster even though they weren't. SportsGuy789 (talk) 17:39, 23 February 2023 (UTC)
Oppose No reason to change the current framework. ~EDDY (talk/contribs)~ 23:53, 24 February 2023 (UTC)
Comment No opinion on the starting year, but defintiely oppose for redshirts in the middle years and potential pedantic spans like (2000–2001, 2002–2005), if they redshirted in 2001–02.—Bagumba (talk) 05:29, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

Rick Suder

In relation to my work on Foster Loyer, I have stubbed out Rick Suder. this source says he was a CBA draftee. I could use help with this guys playing career from anyone. @DaHuzyBru:.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 12:45, 20 March 2023 (UTC)

I will look into the CBA angle in my media guides. If he played in the CBA I will find him. But, looking at the article, Davidson was not in the Atlantic 10 in the 1980s, they were in the SoCon. They joined the A10 in 2014. Rikster2 (talk) 13:15, 20 March 2023 (UTC)
Ah, I see, he played for Duquesne, not Davidson Rikster2 (talk) 13:17, 20 March 2023 (UTC)
Suder never played in the CBA. Rikster2 (talk) 23:59, 20 March 2023 (UTC)
Thx. I am hoping User:DaHuzyBru can bring me news of international play. Maybe he played in Serbia.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 03:07, 21 March 2023 (UTC)
No eurobasket profile, so not sure sorry. DaHuzyBru (talk) 07:25, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

Should USBWA honorable mentions be added to All-American articles?

It looks like the USBWA has honorable mention All-American selections like the AP does with that practice starting last year. Should we add those selections under the AP listings? Best, GPL93 (talk) 00:21, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

Seems reasonable to add there. —Bagumba (talk) 04:12, 21 March 2023 (UTC)
I know you added it already but I wanted to say I agree as well (for posterity), might as well add it. SportsGuy789 (talk) 14:59, 24 March 2023 (UTC)

Conference N/F/RoY templates

Bouncing around yesterday, I saw that {{Big Ten Conference Women's Basketball Freshman of the Year navbox}} and {{Big East Conference Women's Basketball Freshman of the Year navbox}}, but the ACC does not have a Freshman/Rookie/Newcomer of the Year template for women because Diamond DeShields does not have a FoY/RoY/NoY template. I have not seen any FoY/RoY/NoY templates for the men. Do we want Men's and Women's basketball the have conference FoY, NoY or RoY templates?-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 03:26, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

I'm a hard no on those. SportsGuy789 (talk) 06:48, 7 March 2023 (UTC)
Yeah, if anything, I think these aren't necessarily worth including as it is. fuzzy510 (talk) 14:39, 7 March 2023 (UTC)
Should we delete the ones that exist?--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 04:03, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
I'm tempted to say let's just leave them, and if somebody outside the project wants to delete them, I wouldn't put up a fight, but I think there's a good argument either way. fuzzy510 (talk) 22:36, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
I think people inside the project should decide whether we want to develop the complete set or delete what is out there. Why would we leave that decision to people outside the project.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 15:59, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
I'm with Tony on that. WP:CBBALL consensus should come from within the project. Regarding the templates in question, my stance is that any award which is grade-specific should not have one (eliminating Freshman OTY, Sophomore OTY etc.). I don't think there ought to be Newcomer OTY or Rookie OTY either, as they're not "major" awards for that conference and they begin to violate WP:CREEP and WP:NENAN. Tony, if you open a mass-TfD I'll chime in with these thoughts. SportsGuy789 (talk) 16:09, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
Yes, that makes much more sense. Completely in favor. fuzzy510 (talk) 17:12, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

Ordinality of Cousinship

Juwan Howard is some type of cousins with Jalen McDaniels and Jaden McDaniels per [5], [6] and [7]. My guess is that he might be first cousins with their father. Anyone have information on this?--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 05:17, 24 March 2023 (UTC)

Creating a List of NCAA Division I men's basketball tournament winning coaches?

Currently no such list exists on Wikipedia but there are similar lists for the Super Bowl, NBA Finals and other championships. The closest page to this is this list which is a list of Final Four coaches and also a list of coaches with multiple championships. Should this list be split to create two separate pages, one about Final Four coaches and one about champion coaches, or should the list simply be reworked?--Newtothisedit (talk) 20:09, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

Honestly, a Final Four coaches article that envelops the contents of the more specific championship coaches – that makes tidying sense to me. SportsGuy789 (talk) 03:11, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
Make sure it meets WP:LISTN: One accepted reason why a list topic is considered notable is if it has been discussed as a group or set by independent reliable sources, per the above guidelines; notable list topics are appropriate for a stand-alone list. The entirety of the list does not need to be documented in sources for notability, only that the grouping or set in general has been. My rule of thumb is, "Can I write an interesting paragraph or two about this grouping from these sources?" It doesn't happen often, but I was just in an AfD where it seemed LISTN was met, but it got merged anyways. Per WP:N: This is not a guarantee that a topic will necessarily be handled as a separate, stand-alone page. Editors may use their discretion to merge or group two or more related topics into a single article.—Bagumba (talk) 04:28, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
Another option is to take NCAA Division I men's basketball tournament Final Four appearances by school, and modify it to a table with the rows as years, and have sortable columns—one for the team and then their coach next to it.—Bagumba (talk) 04:34, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
@Bagumba: Doesn't that already exist at List of NCAA Division I men's basketball tournament Final Four participants. If anything shouldn't the FF appearances by school and the participants be merged? I think they can be merged and have a coaches column on the yearly list. The Final four appearances is redundant because a similar list is on the Final Four participants page as it is. It should be deleted.-UCO2009bluejay (talk) 04:58, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
Note It looks like Newtothisedit found List of NCAA Division I men's basketball tournament Final Four appearances by coach after the fact (they changed their link up top[8]) —Bagumba (talk) 05:03, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
Yeah, that's the list I was originally referring to, I linked the wrong list originally, and changed without an update as I wasn't aware that I needed to do that. I'm personally leaning towards keeping the lists of schools and coaches seperate and just changing the format (and perhaps the title) of the coaches list. Newtothisedit (talk) 14:36, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
Consider just boldly merging and redirecting. It's less bureaucratic than going the WP:AFD route, which would probably lead to the same result anyways. —Bagumba (talk) 05:09, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
^ This. SportsGuy789 (talk) 17:20, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
Done. What about appearances by school and appearances by school and conference?-UCO2009bluejay (talk) 22:50, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
Honestly, looking at both of them......does anybody else think that the second list is too crufty to justify even merging it in? I feel like adding conference affiliation to the first list would just clutter it up further, and I'm not sure that "number of bids earned by teams that currently reside in this conference" is actually a useful metric. Whenever I see references to past bids from teams in a conference, it's referencing members of the conference at that previous time. Nobody talks about bids earned by the American Athletic Conference before it existed. And saying the Missouri Valley Conference's most recent Sweet 16 was in 2010 is factually incorrect, it doesn't lose Wichita State's appearance in 2015 just because the Shockers moved conferences. fuzzy510 (talk) 23:54, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
I'm with you on that. CRUFTy and overall not useful to a reader, especially given the inconsistencies in context. SportsGuy789 (talk) 14:58, 24 March 2023 (UTC)
Would anybody mind if I took NCAA Division I men's basketball tournament bids by school and conference to AfD? -fuzzy510 (talk) 01:08, 25 March 2023 (UTC)
Seems reasonable. Anyone that minds can just !vote to keep. —Bagumba (talk) 01:25, 25 March 2023 (UTC)
Done, and listed here, for anybody who'd like to comment. fuzzy510 (talk) 09:32, 25 March 2023 (UTC)

AfD: 2023 MAAC women's basketball tournament

There is currently an open AfD that the members of this project may be interested in, please see here. Thanks, Ejgreen77 (talk) 15:23, 25 March 2023 (UTC)

AfD: NCAA Division I men's basketball tournament bids by school and conference

There is currently an open AfD that the members of this project may be interested in, please see here. Thanks, Ejgreen77 (talk) 15:23, 25 March 2023 (UTC)

Notable?

I have newfound page creation energy. I am quite sure that I am on the fringes of notability, but with my Chicago Public Library account I can access statewide newspapers to buff up a page for a barely (if at all) notable subject. Max Bielfeldt may have a claim to be the first Big Ten basketball player to win B1G championships with two different Universities (if this source is an RS). He is a former B1G 6th man of the year. Before that he was heralded as the best low post player to ever come out of Peoria, Illinois. He was 1st team All-state in a class of Illinois players that has produced several NBA prospects. His sister was an All-star high school basketball player who is married to Meyers Leonard. He is from the Bielfeldt family (his grandparents) that has donated $Millions to University of Illinois and has their name on the Athletic Administration building there. Max's career high in high school was 40, which fell one short of his grandfather, who played football at Illinois in the 1950s, according to the press. Because of his family's prominence in Central Illinois, there was a lot of press about him in high school and I think notability is permanent. He has gone pro in a non-sports profession. Is he notable enough by WP:GNG to have a WP page although he almost never even started in college and never played pro?--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 21:12, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

A lot of what I'm reading here seems like inherited notability - he's notable because of the accomplishments of other people he is related to. Based strictly on what I'm reading here, I don't think he would pass GNG on his own. -fuzzy510 (talk) 23:46, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
Well. He got a lot of press 1. for his rise to being a 1st team All-State high school basketball player as the best low post player out of Peoria. The Peoria and Pekin, Illinois papers covered him quite a bit. I think he may pass WP:LOCAL (Honestly, I have had several articles that were already GAC based on just this stage of a person's life. Most of them went on to play in the NBA however.) 2. A little press For his role on the national runner-up 2013 Michigan team when he was captain of the scout team. 3. For being B1G sixth man of the year for B1G champion 2016 Indiana. I am not sure where it is going to fall. It may not pass.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 04:15, 24 March 2023 (UTC)

Auburn season AFDs

Several seasons of the Auburn men's basketball team have been nominated for deletion:

BeanieFan11 (talk) 16:38, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

Conference affiliation changes

Just a friendly reminder to everybody that the 17(!!!!!) conference moves coming this off-season aren't official until July 1. I've seen a couple of people (not members of the project AFAIK, no names I'm familiar with) who have been making changes early, and I've been reverting and leaving gentle talk page reminders. I know it seems silly, since the basketball teams won't be playing again until they're in their new conferences (save for Florida Atlantic), but official is official, and we did actually have one team back out a week before they were supposed to move.

Thanks! fuzzy510 (talk) 06:50, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

Curtis Aiken

Above in the MCDAAG section, I posted a quote with dubious preciseness. I have another issue: Is there a such thing as 1983 USA Today third team all-America. It seemed that in the early years All-USA was only a 5 man team.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 21:42, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

"Lists of seasons by conference" navboxes and "Lists of statistical leaders by conference" navboxes

Found these templates yesterday, which serve as ways to navigate around the "lists of (team) seasons" and "(team) statistical leaders" articles, but grouped by conference. We've already been in something of a mindset to delete template cruft, and I feel like these fit the same bill - I don't see too many instances where you'd specifically want to navigate between the list of seasons or statistical leaders of teams in a specific conference. With conference changes as they are, too, this is just another set of templates to maintain for minimal gain. Can I get a couple opinions before I do a batch nomination?

The categories housing these templates can be found at: Category:American college basketball statistical leaders navigational boxes and Category:NCAA Division I men's basketball team seasons navigational boxes.

Thanks! fuzzy510 (talk) 07:17, 1 April 2023 (UTC)

AFD

You may be interested in Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2022–23 Michigan State Spartans women's basketball team. BeanieFan11 (talk) 14:53, 1 April 2023 (UTC)

Notability tag at National Campus Basketball Tournament

There is a notability tag on what I presume is a recently created article National Campus Basketball Tournament. It appears to have been a postseason tournament like the CBI, CIT, or NCIT. Maybe some editors here can find additional sourcing?- UCO2009bluejay (talk) 00:47, 2 April 2023 (UTC)

Overhaul of NCAA Division I men's basketball tournament upsets

Hey, I've started a discussion about potentially overhauling this article here. Wanted to notify the project as a whole as well, since this would be quite a big overhaul. Skarmory (talk • contribs) 20:30, 24 March 2023 (UTC)

The women's article could also probably use an overhaul. I think these should be relatively consistent in what they include – the women's article only includes 11 seeds and lower up to the Elite Eight, and just drops off there, while the men's article includes 10 seeds in the Round of 64. (Apparently, I brought this inconsistency up on the talk page of the women's upsets article last year. I completely forgot I did that, actually.) Skarmory (talk • contribs) 00:19, 25 March 2023 (UTC)

I have begun the overhaul at User:Skarmory/NCAA Division I men's basketball tournament upsets. Feel free to chip in or contribute however you see fit. I wrote a bit more on what I'm attempting to do with the overhaul on that page. Skarmory (talk • contribs) 22:13, 2 April 2023 (UTC)

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