Q2: Why are Wikipedia editors biased against BFDI and against creating an article for this series?
A2:Wikipedians are not "biased" against BFDI. The creation of a Battle for Dream Island article is simply not allowed because the topic lacks notability and overly enthusiastic fans have repeatedly recreated it despite consensus favoring its deletion. This behavior is disruptive and wastes the time of those who have to delete and salt (i.e. protect a page from creation) the pages created by these said enthusiasts, which is why it is blacklisted on Wikipedia.
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A long running, award winning web series that had a multi-city tour across the USA, official merchandise, a Scholastic book tie-in, and had people like Kevin Macleod, Tomska, etc as guest stars. It seems the only way to get BFDI to have a wikipedia page is to get Donald Trump to watch it. People like Scott The Woz and Chuggaaconroy have less subscribers and less views, yet he is allowed to have a Wikipedia page? If you want news coverage, Microsoft news covered it recently. Feels like a lot of bias here. Brian Koch (a director for Inanimate Insanity and someone who works for Nickelodeon) disagrees with the No BFDI/II policy on Wikipedia, and so do I. You claim Tomska has reliable sources (who also voice acted on BFDI) but not Jacknjellify/Animationepic? AmericanAccount704 (talk) 19:35, 17 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
For reference this tweet appears to have brought you here. It's easy to understand why you'd think Wikipedia is being unfair to BFDI but to be honest it doesn't seem like you've read this page well enough. Wikipedia's criteria for notability and how BFDI doesn't meet them are both discussed thoroughly. Unless you have a new reliable, independent source you can link to, the fact that BFDI doesn't have a Wikipedia article isn't likely to change. Nythar (💬-🍀) 19:51, 17 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
But that's my point: it isn't anyone's "belief" that BFDI isn't notable that prevents the article's creation. It is a lack of reliable, independent sources that renders BFDI to not be notable according to Wikipedia's notability guidelines. I read through the responses to that Twitter post and most of the people criticizing how Wikipedia works have no idea how Wikipedia works. For those who happen to read this comment, notability on Wikipedia has nothing to do with the popularity of a subject. A person who only a handful of people have ever heard of can be more notable than BFDI, with which millions are likely familiar. I know this is counterintuitive, which is why I said I understand why you think it's unfair that BFDI doesn't have an article. An article on BFDI could be created tomorrow if we find sources that would make such an article meet the notability criteria. Nythar (💬-🍀) 21:51, 17 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Well maybe it doesn't fit Wikipedia's notability guidelines. But if a "award winning web series that had a multi-city tour across the USA, official merchandise, a Scholastic book tie-in, and had people like Kevin Macleod, Tomska, etc as guest stars." doesn't fit Wikipedia's notability guidelines then maybe the problem is with Wikipedia's notability guidelines. 2007GabrielT (talk) 23:26, 17 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I severely dislike the term "Notability"; I believe it to be one of the worst-named guideline whether in or outside Wikipedia. Very counterintuitively, "Notability" in Wikipedia is not a measure of real-life significance. If it is, I'd agree with you that it is failing spectacularly and BFDI merits an article. But the truth is that it's all about sourcing. If there are no sources without a conflict of interest, is it possible write a wp:neutral article? If there are no reliable sources, how could a Wikipedia article be verifiable and reliable? Catalk to me!09:42, 18 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
For a wikipedia page to be verifiable and reliable it only needs to be based on verifiable facts, which if we don't look at the rules, can be the non independent articles. (Some in fact are allowed to come from primary sources via this rule) As for it being neutral, while in theory would be hard to do without many independent articles, would in practice be very easy to do because what the hell is there to be biased about here? 2007GabrielT (talk) 15:06, 18 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I don't care what the rules say. My point is that if the rules say that BFDI doesn't get a page despite being very popular then the rules are bad and should be fixed. 2007GabrielT (talk) 22:05, 18 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That's not circular reasoning thats just you saying the same thing twice.
"The "rules" are bad because BFDI is popular and don't have a article." means the same thing as " BFDI don't have a article because the "rules" are bad"
The rule are bad because they don't allow BFDI to have page. Thus BDFI doesn't have page because the rules are bad. I don't see anything circular. 2007GabrielT (talk) 02:23, 19 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I copied how the rules explain themselves - basically, solely citing the non-independent sources on an article may be seen as advertising, and it would be hard to neutrally explain the cultural impact of the series on the article without an independent source. ObserveOwl (talk) 05:51, 19 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Y'all havent updates your notability guidelines since 2002, y'all should remoce the indpendent sources rule, the internet is too interconnected to need independent sources AmericanAccount704 (talk) 05:18, 18 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I strongly believe the universe will end before an independent article exists. The problem isn't Wikipedia, the problem isn't BFDI, the problem is the coverage guidelines or personal opinions of notable, reliable, independent companies' effect that rules out the possibility of a reliable source's existence. The independent companies are just following set guidelines that govern the coverage or exclusion of certain shows. The guidelines are supposed to prevent obscure shows from being covered, but mistakes happen, and "BFDI" has been possibly labeled as obscure and/or unnecessary. It's not anyone's fault "BFDI" is unique. 124.149.252.234 (talk) 04:48, 25 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Then the problem is Wikipedia. If BFDI is popular thing then it should have a Wikipedia page. If anything about Wikipedia's rules prevent BFDI from having a page then the problem are those rules. 2007GabrielT (talk) 15:17, 25 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
AmericanAccount704: 1. "award-winning" is just a marketing ploy. Awards like the Nobel Prize, Oscars/Academy Awards, Grammys, Tonys, etc. are well-known because they are presented by reputable organizations. The "award" that BFDI received was from one of those amateur news accounts on social media (e.g. Pop Crave) run by a person who has no experience. 2. The Scholastic book was written by the production team, which does not contribute to BFDI's notability. 3. Just because people who have articles were featured on BFDI does not automatically mean it's notable; notability is not inherited. 4. A random jazz band can do a worldwide tour and sell merchandise and not get significant coverage by any reliable sources. 5. There is no "No BFDI/II" policy on Wikipedia. 6. The reason why Scott The Woz and Chuggaconroy have articles is because they are notable. We have credible sources covering them in significant detail. BFDI doesn't have that. — 💽 LunaEclipse 💽 ⚧ 【=◈︿◈=】15:06, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
i have been following this situation for the better portion of a year, and a few things should be answered .
1. if battle for dream island got reliable sources on something that didn’t exactly aim for the show itself, but something expressly bfdi (like for example the live tour/the scholastic guide book), would it mean that the thing itself still be rejected as its not significant coverage? (of the show), or would the thing itself be able to get a wikipedia article only about itself.
1b. and if it would be rejected, does that mean that bfdi is required to have its own article (for the show) for there to be any articles relating to bfdi?
2. what about object shows? (bfdi’s main example) like itft, inanimate insanity, or obsolete battle show, these shows take (both full/partial) inspiration from bfdi, but most are unrelated, but this is not talking about a single confined object show, it’s about the whole community as a thing, but how could you even make an article (with sources), on such a wide concept, as the osc?
2b. what about any singular object show?, like what if lots of sources made news coverage on any particular object show, would it need to conform to its unique identity as an object show?, or would it only be classified as a webshow? (if both a bfdi and osc article didn’t exist)
[cw roblox mention]
3. what about find the markers? the original game creator was the one to come up with marker, so he has the ownership of the character, so he made a game on roblox that wasn’t directly tied to bfdi or anything other than the character marker, this game is popular with alot of people (bfdi fans and non bfdi fans alike) and could have it’s own article (with sources), does that mean you couldn’t mention bfdi along with this article? (as find the markers’ development didn’t have direct influence from bfdi, so mentions of bfdi aren’t needed)
[roblox mention over]
4. how many sources do we need on bfdi?, what is the number of reliable sources needed until bfdi is notable?, because does wikipedia allow any wikipedia page aslong as it has atleast 1 source? or does it need lots?
5. do we exactly need all mentions of bfdi in regular known pages deleted?, as its blacklisted (for now), because there’s lots of places where bfdi could be used as a passing mention, but what if the (wikipedia) article is based on an news article that has only a slight mention of bfdi in it?
(heh 5b)
5b. how about general places that don’t need bfdi references?, but the topic in question mentions it to the point where it is applicable to the article, but technically you could reference bfdi in it as it was in article that was a reliable source?
1. That would depend on how much context on BFDI the source provides. The article about BFDI would be pretty confusing to read without information about itself.
1b. Technically not, but that would perhaps be for an exceptional case in which something from BFDI has made some impact outside the OSC.
2. By waiting for reliable, independent and in-depth sources the article would base upon, I suppose. As for the OSC, there are some articles about specific fandoms, so an article about the OSC could base its structure on some of them.
2b. Depends on how reliable coverage describes it.
3. It would again require reliable coverage, and of course it can mention BFDI when relevant and noted by sources.
4. The general notability guideline mentions "sources" in plural, but the reliability and depth of the sources count more than the quantity. The practical minimum could be two sources if they are very in-depth, or three moderately in-depth ones; it should be evaluated case-by-case.
5. Would depend on the context and relevance to the article in question.
this is going to be another wierd question but it will be more specific.
how about yoylecake itself getting a wp article..
battle for dream island has been brought up for sources from a Comic con food truck for its food item yoyle cake.
and those sources don’t specifically fit as sources for bfdi, but my question is could yoylecake have its own wp article?
understandably yoylecake is an important thing in the bfdi universe, but not exactly a real food item.
yoyle cake isn’t strictly a food item though as its also a catchprase from one of the characters in the show.. and this broadness of being both a phrase and a (fictional) food item, is something they could put on a page.
(catchphrases aren’t always articles [execptions eg. D'oh!] but rather sections/redirections of characters [eg Did i do that, Bazinga] and could be possible for a redirection/section of a hypothetical yoyle cake article)
You should exlplain why SML has no wikipedia page, they have a retail merch store in Pensacola, is 10x bigger than BFDI, and appeared on Good Morning America and The Sun, albeit for bad reasons, Jeffy alone could have a Wikipedia page, maybe even Jeffy's Tantrum could have a wikipedia since that is what started the whole controversy (please make it a shorter essay unlike the anti-BFDI page essay) AmericanAccount704 (talk) 03:08, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You can try searching for sources talking about SML in more detail that weren't mentioned in the deletion discussion, though. Try asking someone experienced with notability about them, and then open a deletion review if appropriate. ObserveOwl (talk) 06:31, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Something I have never managed to understand is how Battle For Dream Island doesn’t have a Wikipedia page, and yet Epic Rap Battles of History does. What does ERB have that BFDI doesn’t? I’d argue that BFDI has more, what with merchandise, an active fan base of all ages, countless series inspired by it and a lot more! 86.13.247.51 (talk) 17:40, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Other WMF-projects will deal with whatever per their own policies and guidelines when noticed by the editors there. en-WP has no special authority over other WMF-projects. For example, ja-WP had a BFDI-article for a while:[1]. Fwiw, this page exists on ko-WP:[2]Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 07:57, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
