Wikipedia talk:Article Rescue Squadron/Archive 13
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Needing diplomacy and finesse
Both Ancient Tombs of Goguryeo and Joseon tongsinsa are AfD nominated. Both are noteworthy subjects; but both are entirely unsourced and both are awkwardly written. Both were created by the same contributor who abandoned them and Wikipedia soon after.
The unverifiable text at Ancient Tombs of Goguryeo could be merged with the better written, but also unsourced prose at Complex of Goguryeo Tombs ... but the content problems would remain unaddressed. As a result of feedback at AfD, I learned that UNESCO has identified the Goguryeo mounds as a World Heritage Site.
Similarly, the unverifiable narrative at Joseon tongsinsa would be merged with the unsourced table at Joseon Tongsinsa ... but the essential problems in each article are unaffected. As a result of feedback at AfD, I looked into this subject a bit further and learned that in 2008, an application has been filed with UNESCO to register "Joseon Tongsinsa" on the World Cultural Heritage list.
I myself lack the optimistic temerity even to attempt to bridge these substantive gaps. In this instance, I'm persuaded that bold would be unwise, perhaps foolish for someone like me to do more. --Tenmei (talk) 19:38, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
- I have tagged Ancient Tombs of Goguryeo for rescue. I have not done so for Joseon tongsinsa since I feel this was a bad AfD nom, and in such cases I feel in such cases that {{rescue}} is not quite the way to go. I have no doubt someone else will tag. In both cases the work that is needed is for someone with overview of the sources to merge the relevant articles together. Taemyr (talk) 20:49, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
- Taemyr -- Please allow me to reiterate that I will gladly apologize if or when I come to understand and agree with your point of view. I continue to assert, and to believe, that the article as it now stands does meet the criteria for deletion. However, as this posting makes clear, I'm committed to doing what I can to ensure that neither Joseon Tongsinsa nor Joseon tongsinsa deleted thoughtlessly or casually. --Tenmei (talk) 21:36, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
- With the exception of copyvios and attack pages AfD's is always about the potential that a topic have. Never about what the current state of an article is. Taemyr (talk) 22:18, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
- In light of your last posting, I will re-visit the guidance pages which informed my AfD nomination. I do not now recall reading that an assessment of potential becomes a relevant factor in this process. You may notice that I've underlined two sentences above. Even as I re-examine the criteria for AfD, I don't want to undervalue these unexpected and constructive consequences of this step in an oblique direction. --Tenmei (talk) 23:12, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
- The relevant section is WP:BEFORE on the procedure page, and WP:ATD on the policy page. Taemyr (talk) 00:07, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
- Also note that it's specifically the nom of Joseon tongsinsa that I react to, since discussions of alternatives already where underway at that article. Taemyr (talk) 00:11, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
- The relevant section is WP:BEFORE on the procedure page, and WP:ATD on the policy page. Taemyr (talk) 00:07, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
- In light of your last posting, I will re-visit the guidance pages which informed my AfD nomination. I do not now recall reading that an assessment of potential becomes a relevant factor in this process. You may notice that I've underlined two sentences above. Even as I re-examine the criteria for AfD, I don't want to undervalue these unexpected and constructive consequences of this step in an oblique direction. --Tenmei (talk) 23:12, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
- With the exception of copyvios and attack pages AfD's is always about the potential that a topic have. Never about what the current state of an article is. Taemyr (talk) 22:18, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
- Taemyr -- Please allow me to reiterate that I will gladly apologize if or when I come to understand and agree with your point of view. I continue to assert, and to believe, that the article as it now stands does meet the criteria for deletion. However, as this posting makes clear, I'm committed to doing what I can to ensure that neither Joseon Tongsinsa nor Joseon tongsinsa deleted thoughtlessly or casually. --Tenmei (talk) 21:36, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
- We are on the same page -- specifically WP:BEFORE and the sentence highlighted in bold:
- "If the article can be fixed through normal editing, then it is not a good candidate for AfD."
- It was specifically that sentence in that section which informed my decision -- and in light of what has happened since, I think that assessment and judgment is born by what has developed. I'm astonished that we read the same sentence, we examined the same edit history and text, we are informed by the same record of an extended discussion -- and yet we draw such disparate conclusions.
- I was referring to the sections. WP:BEFORE also includes statements such as
- Consider making the page a useful redirect or proposing it be merged rather than deleted. Neither of these actions requires an AfD.
- WP:ATD states;
- If two pages are duplicates or otherwise redundant, one should be merged and redirected to the other, using the most common, or more general page name. This does not require process or formal debate beforehand.
- The content issues should be discussed at the relevant talk page, and other methods of dispute resolution should be used first, such as listing on Wikipedia:Requests for comments for further input. Deletion discussions that are really unresolved content disputes may be closed by an administrator, and referred to the talk page or other appropriate forum.
- Taemyr (talk) 07:46, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
- I was referring to the sections. WP:BEFORE also includes statements such as
- It is no mere "wonkery" for me to assert here that my AfD nomination was explicitly informed by WP:ATD -- both by the "Editing" sub-section and by the "Merging" sub-section; but this becomes worth pondering further. --Tenmei (talk) 01:42, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
- My appologize, it was not my intention to call your nomination process wonkery. If you read my comments that way please accept my reasurrance that this was not how my comments was intended. Taemyr (talk) 07:46, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
- We are on the same page -- specifically WP:BEFORE and the sentence highlighted in bold:
The Adventures of Brer Rabbit
The Adventures of Brer Rabbit - not quite sure if it should be tagged for ARS. Currently in AfD ( Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Adventures of Brer Rabbit ). With all the talent listed in the article's sidebar, seems like there should be something that passes movie notability guidelines, but a cursory review doesn't support it. Will an experienced ARS member take a look and decide if it should be rescue tagged? Thank you! LaughingVulcan 02:33, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
- Done. definitely looks rescue-able. Banjeboi 10:47, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
- I added a bunch of refs to the AfD page, but haven't had a chance to integrate them into the article. Feel free to do so, as I may not have time to before the AfD closes. However, things are almost snow'ing keep on the basis of those sources, looks like. Jclemens (talk) 14:49, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
Wall Street Journal mention
If you haven't seen it, the Wall Street Journal did a rather long article on Wikimania, and it mentions ARS. Enjoy. Jim Miller See me | Touch me | Review me 02:15, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
tagged articles
- Smackdown vs Raw 2009 Roster (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Smackdown vs Raw 2009 Roster
- "WWE SmackDown vs. Raw 2009 Roster is a list of characters in WWE SmackDown vs. Raw 2009, the tenth video game in the WWE SmackDown professional wrestling series, and the sequel to WWE SmackDown vs. Raw 2008." Banjeboi 09:18, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
- Karthik Kumar N G (Vishwa) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Karthik Kumar N G (Vishwa)
- "Karthik Kumar N G (born 20 July, 1980 in Bangalore, Karanataka) was a state level cricket player and started an acting career at the age of ten." Banjeboi 18:49, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
- List of Elite Four members (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Elite Four members
- "The Elite Four (四天王, Shitennō, lit. "Four Heavenly Kings") are fictional characters in the Pokémon video game series, anime, and manga." Banjeboi 02:19, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
- Master game server (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Master game server
- "A master game server is an internet service which receives information about running game servers and their rules and delivers this information to clients, e.g. a game server browser." Banjeboi 09:09, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
- Odessa (Wild Arms 2) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Odessa (Wild Arms 2)
- "Odessa is a fictional terrorist organization from the PlayStation role-playing game Wild ARMs 2." Banjeboi 02:22, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
- Obnosis (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Obnosis
- "Obnosis is a neologism derived from Greek roots, referenced in common cultural use; historical Internet civil disobedience, Internet computer security, Internet neutrality history, open source and technical critical thought; now invoked in reference to open source systems support, systems theory, technical education and cultural Internet sociology." Banjeboi 23:37, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
- Desktop Destroyer (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Desktop Destroyer
- "Desktop Destroyer is a downloadable program that enables a screen shot to be virtually "destroyed" for entertainment." Banjeboi 00:27, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
- Likely notable enough but needs a lot of clean-up and sourcing. Banjeboi 00:28, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
- Prelate Annalina (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Prelate Annalina
- " Prelate Annalina Aldurren is a main character in The Sword of Truth series written by Terry Goodkind." Banjeboi 00:39, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
- Witch Hunters (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Witch Hunters
- "Witch Hunters are one of the playable armies in the tabletop miniature wargame, Warhammer 40,000." Banjeboi 23:33, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
- Zittel's Marina (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Zittel's Marina
- "Zittel's Marina is a marina located on Johnson Point in Olympia, Washington." Banjeboi 23:22, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
- SuperAntiSpyware (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/SuperAntiSpyware
- "SUPERAntiSpyware (SAS) is an anti-spyware program for Microsoft Windows first released publicly in March 2006 designed protect and remove various threats from a computer." Banjeboi 00:23, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
- List of Chronicles of the Sword characters (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Chronicles of the Sword characters
- "A comprehensible listing of character presented in the story of the videogame Soulcalibur III's mini-game Chronicles of the Sword. " Banjeboi 00:43, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
- Mr. Wormwood (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Bruce Bogtrotter (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mr. Wormwood
- Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Bruce Bogtrotter
- "Mr. Harry Wormwood is a fictional character in the British book Matilda, by Roald Dahl, and lead character in the film based on the book."
- "Bruce Bogtrotter is a fictional character from the novel Matilda." ::Banjeboi 02:42, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
- Harlan Rook (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Harlan Rook
- "Harlan Rook is a fictional character from the last Dirty Harry film, The Dead Pool, played by actor David Hunt." ::Banjeboi 02:42, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
- Ben Mitchell (film character) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ben Mitchell (film character)
- "Ben Mitchell is a fictional character from the Australian horror film Wolf Creek (2005). " ::Banjeboi 02:42, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
- Irina (General Hospital) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Irina (General Hospital)
- "Irina was a fictional character on the popular ABC soap opera General Hospital." ::Banjeboi 02:42, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
- Rolando Gomez (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Rolando Gomez
- "Rolando Gomez (born 1962) is an American freelance photographer and author for Amherst Media." ::Banjeboi 02:42, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
- Snorri Snorrelssen (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jenna Heap
- "Snorri Snorrelssen is a Northern Trader in Septimus Heap Book 3 Physik." -- Banjeboi 22:42, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
- Marcia Overstrand (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jenna Heap
- Marcia Overstrand is a major character in the Septimus Heap series by Angie Sage --10:52, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
- Technology of the Tau Empire (Warhammer 40,000) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Technology of the Tau Empire (Warhammer 40,000)
- First 40k army focused on ranged combat, article is in the middle of a rewrite, sources for notability have been found. Tealwisp (talk) 23:30, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
- Births, Marriages and Deaths (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Births, Marriages and Deaths
- ==England and Wales==Since 1837, all births, marriages and deaths in England and Wales have been registered at a Register Office in the region where the event took place --23:57, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
- Decade nostalgia (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Decade nostalgia
- Decade nostalgia is nostalgia for certain aspects of a past decade within contemporary popular culture --23:57, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
- Gamer Tonight (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Gamer Tonight
- Gamer Tonight is an Australian cartoon short made by Ross O'Donovan --23:57, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
- Stuart M. Pepper (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Stuart M. Pepper
- Stuart M --21:32, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
- Angry left (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Angry left
- "The Angry Left is a term that refers to a group of people in American politics who have a liberal viewpoint, hence the term "left", and are very angry with the current presidential administration, hence the "angry."" --23:57, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
Rescue - But Not Tagged
The Article Rescue Squadron guidelines say don't rescue-tag a page if you're th primary editor but add it here instead; but I can't see a suitable section to add it to?
The page I'd like some help saving is Alan_Pipes. Thanks for help and comments. WorthyDan (talk) 16:43, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
- Yes, it's a bit confusing. On that article you have a "prod" that if left uncontested will be automatically deleted. Use {{hangon}} directly below that prod tag if you intend to improve the article and post on the talkpage of that article what you will be doing immediately to appease concerns. In this case you will need reliable sources asserting that the author and/or books are noteworthy. If you aren't able to quickly do that you may also ask that if the article is deleted that it be userfied so you can work on it at a more relaxed pace in your userspace then repost it when it's ready. -- Banjeboi 22:13, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
- Actually, that's not quite correct. Use {{hangon}} if an article is tagged for speedy deletion. Any editor who contests the use of a {{prod}} can simply delete it, giving an appropriate edit summary. Unless either 1) they aren't paying attention to the article anymore, or 2) you've done some stunning improvements so that the editor who placed the prod no longer believes that the article merits deletion, the editor who placed the prod will typically nominate the article for deletion, WP:AfD. That is normally the venue that ARS looks to make improvements, since an AfD discussion typically runs for 5 days. If the nomination is off base, often it will fail anyways. What seems to be the most common issue in AfD's these days is adding reliable sources. Jclemens (talk) 22:27, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
- OK, I reviewed it and deprodded it. I'm leaving specific recommendations for future improvements on the article talk page. Cheers! Jclemens (talk) 23:06, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
Tagged articles
J. J. Thiel,
Frank Armin,
Harry Brock,
Wes Buller,
Jake Cabell,
Bill Carroll,
Fred Clapp,
Don Copper,
Fred Dittman,
Chris Douglas,
Phil Hower,
Robert Hower,
Harold Hunt,
Jay Mack Love,
Ray Morrison,
Dick Nolan, and
Jim Paramore
- J. J. Thiel (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Frank Armin (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Harry Brock (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Wes Buller (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Jake Cabell (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Bill Carroll (football coach) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Fred Clapp (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Don Copper (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Fred Dittman (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Chris Douglas (football coach) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Phil Hower (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Robert Hower (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Harold Hunt (football coach) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Jay Mack Love (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Ray Morrison (football coach) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Dick Nolan (football coach) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Jim Paramore (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/J. J. Thiel (yes they're all there)
- "J.J. Thiel was the first head football coach for Southwestern College Moundbuilders in Winfield, Kansas." -- Banjeboi 23:20, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
- Frank Armin was the fourth football coach for the Southwestern College Moundbuilders in Winfield, Kansas and held that position for the 1908 season --22:30, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
- Harry Brock was the 10th football coach for the Southwestern College Moundbuilders in Winfield, Kansas and held that position for the 1942 season --22:30, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
- Wes Butler was the 19th football coach for the Southwestern College Moundbuilders in Winfield, Kansas and held that position 3 seasons, from 1969 to 1971 --22:30, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
- Jake Cabell was the 24th football coach for the Southwestern College Moundbuilders in Winfield, Kansas and held that position for the 1992 season --22:30, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
- Bill Carroll was the 14th football coach for the Southwestern College Moundbuilders in Winfield, Kansas and held that position 2 seasons for 1952 and 1953 --22:30, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
- Fred Clapp was the fifth football head coach for the Southwestern College Moundbuilders in Winfield, Kansas and held that position 5 years, from 1909 to 1913 --22:30, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
- Don Copoper was the 8th football coach for the Southwestern College Moundbuilders in Winfield, Kansas and held that position for three seasons, from 1937 to 1939 --22:30, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
- Fred Dittman was the 12th football coach for the Southwestern College Moundbuilders in Winfield, Kansas and held that position for the 1948 season --22:30, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
- Chris Douglas was the twenty-seventh head football coach for the Southwestern College Moundbuilders in Winfield, Kansas --22:30, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
- Phil Hower was the 21st football coach for the Southwestern College Moundbuilders in Winfield, Kansas and held that position 4 seasons, from 1977 to 1980 --22:30, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
- Robert Hower was the 15th football coach for the Southwestern College Moundbuilders in Winfield, Kansas and held that position 5 seasons, form 1954 to 1958 --22:30, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
- Harold Hunt was the 13th football coach for the Southwestern College Moundbuilders in Winfield, Kansas and held that position 3 seasons, from 1949 to 1951 --22:30, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
- Jay Mack Love was the 3rd football head coach for the Southwestern College Moundbuilders in Winfield, Kansas and held that position 2 years, from 1906 to 1907 --22:30, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
- Ray Morrison was the 17th football coach for the Southwestern College Moundbuilders in Winfield, Kansas and held that position for the 1962 and 1963 seasons --22:30, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
- Dick Nolan was the ninth football coach for the Southwestern College Moundbuilders in Winfield, Kansas and held that position 2 seasons, from 1940 to 1941 --22:30, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
- James "Jim" Paramore was the 20th football coach for the Southwestern College Moundbuilders in Winfield, Kansas and held that position 5 seasons, from 1972 to 1976 --22:30, 22 September 2008 (UTC)