Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2010 February 4

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February 4

Sandy Beach

In the mid to late 1950's my family would got to a manmade lake, I think, in Oakland New Jersey called "Sandy Beach". We commuted from Queens, New York, and it was just a magical place with large, treed picnic area. The lake had a sliding pond on one end, colorful fenced off areas with much more shallow water. There were also "waterfalls" which may have also been manmade.

No one can tell me what happened to this place; possibly condos were built there. You could walk around the lake, there were concession stands, and the entire atmosphere was fantastic. I mean if I could have one day back in my childhood, it would be a day at Sandy Beach.

How can I find out what happened to this place; exactly where it was located, etc.

Lucy Varricchio —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.80.249.96 (talk) 01:07, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

I've removed your email address to stop spammers finding it. You'll need to return here to get answers per desk policy. Marnanel (talk) 01:09, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

There was once a Sandy Beach in Oakland, NJ. According to this blog post, Sandy Beach was shut down in the early 1960s when the water of the Ramapo River (where the beach was located) became murky due to the growth in the number of septic tanks installed as part of the area's suburban development. Sandy Beach was one of a series of summer resorts along the river, the last of which apparently shut down in the 1980s, according to the blog post. Sandy Beach was located along the Ramapo River just southwest of the end of Hemlock Street in Oakland. Hemlock Street is now a dead end, but it may once have led to the park. The park access road is no longer on the map. If you search for Hemlock Street in Oakland, NJ, on Google Maps, you will find the area. Looking at a Google Earth image of the area, it now seems to be overgrown. The Sandy Beach area has not been developed since it was closed. There are probably still foundations of structures in the woods there. The water along what used to be the beach area now seems quite murky, and the Google Earth image, apparently taken in summer, shows a dense growth of algae or pond scum in the water along the shore. I'm sorry that the place you remember so fondly has changed beyond recognition. Marco polo (talk) 01:38, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

I found this http://www.oakland-nj.org/minutes/BOA%20Minutes%204-10-07.pdf which describes a Sandy Beach in Oakland, New Jersey. "The property had been originally a part of the Samuel P. Demarest Farm, which was considered a “Wood Factory.” Prior to the 1900’s, the property had been purchased by Ludo Wilkens who constructed the “Wilken’s Bristle Brush Factory.” In the 1930’s the property then was acquired by Sandy Beach, Inc., which operated as a swim club." Could that be it? 89.240.201.246 (talk) 01:52, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Comparing the google and multimap maps of 41°01′15″N 74°15′26″W - the Hemlock Street location discussed above, it seems that a single lake now covers an area which once had three smaller lakes. It's possible that some of the land you walked on is now under water. If it helps, yours is the very sweetest question we've been asked in a long time on the reference desk. I'm sorry the news was not better. --Tagishsimon (talk) 03:18, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

So now we'll never know if we found the right place or not, or if the OP came back and read this. ;( 92.26.29.37 (talk) 20:05, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

Hello, I believe I may have found the answer to your query. I am currently resident at 207 Ramapo Valley Road Oakland, NJ, a mere two blocks from what I know to be the ruins of the "Sandy Beach" swim club. My father once worked there many years ago and provided me with much information on the subject. The area now resembles (as best as I can describe it) a large open area, with some knee-high grass covering one half, and mulch covering the other. There is a large barn/warehouse there (with industrial locks on the doors and bricked-up windows [they really don't want anyone in there]) that used to be a sort of "common building" for lake-goers. Back behind the "common building", are located an extremely large amount of concrete or cement (I'm not much of the construction sort of guy) benches/picnic tables (this is not on site, it is just clarification of what type of table I am talking about http://www.hansonsilo.com/images/picnic-table-2.jpg)with a large backhoe claw (much like this http://www.valbysales.com/_borders/newgrapple5.jpg, but bigger and rusted over) lying beside, and what I can only imagine to be what was used to move the tables. My friends and I now enjoy play games of airsoft on the site, and I am happy to give you any more information that you would like.

Scott 5/16/14 - Hello and YES, this was Sandy Beach!! I went to Sandy Beach for years when I was little. The entrance was not on Hemlock but at the end of Spruce St. There used to be a waterfall off the Ramapo river right at the end of Hemlock. The waterfall diverted water through a type of filtration system and filled the swimming area. A stream carried the water out from the swimming area on the other side which ran along side picnic benches where we used to fish. A small dam with a house over it allowed water to go back to the Ramapo. The dam was opened at the end of the season to drain the swimming area. The course of the river was changed as it extends back further now but used to run closer to the beach area. From the back of the beach area you could see people canoeing down the river. Some of the cement walls that helped contain the river are still hidden deep within the woods where the river once flowed. Within Sandy Beach there were a couple of small bungalow's which were rented each season. Two of my childhood friends Bobby & Patty stayed in one of them. There was a large pavilion there. At one end they had two bays, one of which they parked the tractor which raked the beach every day and the other end had a bar with a stage area. At the end of the day, those who remained would head over to unwind before going home. Songs like "See You in September", Wooly Bully", Hot Fun In The Summertime" and Donovan's "Hurdy Gurdy Man" could be heard playing. There was a small baseball diamond next to the pavilion. I first learned to swim at Sandy Beach where my step dad through me in the water at the deep end by the diving boards. I have lot's of memories of this place. I was too young to understand why it closed but will never forget my time there. The name changed from Sandy Beach to the Ramapo Valley Beach Club a season or two before it closed. Somewhere I still have pictures from there, I need to dig them out again!

need to know if i can get half cuts cars from china for export

i need to know if it is allowed in china to buy half cut cars in accident or from junkyards and engines gearboxes ....to export. cars brands is cherry and tiggo . —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hisam 2010 (talk • contribs) 09:17, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

That's legal advice. Sorry, we can't answer that sort of thing. Shadowjams (talk) 11:21, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

I don't agree that it's certain that it's necessarily a legal advice question; but I don't know the answer. Comet Tuttle (talk) 18:40, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

well, as a non-legalish answer, you can buy just about anything you set your mind on, if you're willing to pay the price for it. however, that statement will rapidly bring you back to question of whether it's against the law. --Ludwigs2 20:16, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

hypothetical lease question

If someone has a long term lease, (example someone has a 50 year lease on a person's farmland, or woodland or whatever), and 5 years into the lease, the landlord dies, is the heir required to continue the lease, or must it be renegotiated? I understand that the answer probably depends on where this happens, but since it is only hypothetical, just let me know where the particular situation is applicable. Googlemeister (talk) 15:55, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

I don't know about the general case under common law, but I would be surprised if such a long term lease didn't include clauses dealing with "assignment" or "survivorship" or some such. It's not just possible but likely that (at least) one of the original parties to a fifty-year lease will die before the term is up, and I would expect their lease to address the issue explicitly. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 16:05, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

That's right — most contracts I have seen have a clause that specifically states that the terms of the contract continue to be binding on the parties' "survivors or assigns"; but I don't know the answer under English and American common law when there is no such clause. The wimpy answer is "this depends on where you live; look up the law". Comet Tuttle (talk) 16:52, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Googling "landlord dies" yields many results on this question; one that looks authoritative is this article from Iowa State University, which states that, in Iowa at least, the lease is still valid, and the dead landlord's estate is now the landlord. The estate can presumably go ahead and terminate the lease if the executor desires, but would have to do so under whatever termination procedures are in the lease contract, or under the state's statutory termination procedures if there's no termination clause in the contract. Many of the Googled results are questions about what happens if the lease agreement was an oral agreement; since there are typically no witnesses in these cases, the results are usually quite bad for the tenant. Comet Tuttle (talk) 19:23, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Inaccuracy in the The Hurt Locker?

I haven't yet watched the film, however, in the poster of it, a soldier is pulling several cables from the ground. Isn't it an extreme unwise thing to do in Iraq? Wouldn't it be more common to simply try to detonate anything you find buried in the ground?--Quest09 (talk) 17:58, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Maybe you should see the movie. I quote from our article:"tensions mount between the team members due to James's recklessness and unorthodox methods". DJ Clayworth (talk) 18:56, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

"Extremely unwise" pretty much sums up James' approach to defusing bombs. It's an excellent movie, incidentally.

Addressing the detonation problem—the difficulty is that most of the IEDs in the movie are found in heavily populate urban areas. To blow them up would in part accomplish the damage desired by those who left them there (and require the evacuation of a large area, destruction of personal property, possibly many injuries, etc.). In the film they spend most of their time defusing the bombs, and then taking them out into an unpopulated area and detonating them there. My understanding is that it is always a trade-off for bomb squad people to try and figure out what they can and can't diffuse. --Mr.98 (talk) 20:52, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Re to DJ Clayworth: That's not really talking about that action, but rather a broader string of actions (some of which are in that scene).

This is an interesting question because I wonder why they don't just cut the cords. In that particular scene the bomber is trying to set off the bombs with a 9V battery... in that case the circuit is already broken. Cutting the wires would be no change (except the 9V wouldn't be a threat). Is this realistic? Shadowjams (talk) 07:37, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

The s symbol we all drew as kids

http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/object2/600/78/n317809704552_8958.jpg

Anyone have any idea as to where it came from? 75.107.246.153 (talk) 18:45, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

I don't remember if I drew it as a kid, but if I did, then it came from other kids. Those kids took the idea from other kids. And don't ask me how it began. There are kids up to the beginning. Quest09 (talk) 18:51, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Who's "we all"? I never even saw that symbol, let alone drew one. TomorrowTime (talk) 18:55, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

I recognized this symbol immediately. When I was younger, people used to make NC State symbols with the exact same pattern. I don't know if this is specific to NC State, or if other state schools have similar designs. (note, I don't think this is the official NCSU logo). Falconus^{p t c} 19:07, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

I remember people writing the word "Smile" with an S like that and the other letters in the same style (and the "l" drawn as a palm tree). I've only seen this in Austrian schools. Rimush (talk) 19:08, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

I used to draw a variant of that as a kid and thought it was from the logo of Suzuki, though now that I look at it, there's little resemblance. Comet Tuttle (talk) 19:14, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

We used to doodle like that with Isometric Graph paper when I was a kid, purely as it fit the lines/dots perfectly. Nanonic (talk) 19:27, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

I clearly remember learning to draw that symbol as a kid (USA, late '80s). Everyone in my class thought it was a neat trick at the time, since we were too young to produce decent bubble letters, and that S can be drawn quite easily by making two rows of three vertical lines, then connecting the ends. I've also seen it used a lot in graffiti tags, probably for the same reason. My guess would be that, like playground games, urban legends, and nursery rhymes, it's one of those little things passed endlessly between generations and cultures because its appeal is universal to children of a certain age. - Fullobeans (talk) 19:51, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

It could be a Möbius strip. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 22:46, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

I remember drawing it in elementary school in the late 90s and early 2000s. Fun stuff. Drawn the same way, I don't think it came from a label or something. Quest09 is right, just passed down. The Reader who Writes (talk) 00:21, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

I remember seeing it growing up in Australia in the 1980s. Steewi (talk) 00:44, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Likewise, it was a common doodle when I was growing up in New England in the 1980s. It is, as noted above, part of one of the common logos of North Carolina State University, but from my memory, we always called it the "Suzuki S" after Suzuki motocycles. --Jayron32 06:20, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Are these sensible questions?

I ask whether any of the following questions has an objective answer. They are not random questions. They were issued to me today by New Era Publications who market Scientology materials, hence the occasional Co$ jargon.

1) What is a thetan´s relationship to the body at night while the body sleeps?

2) How was time really invented?

3) How people actually put on, or lose weight?

4) Why is sex a puzzle to man but not to women?

5) Why are men sometimes dying earlier then women? <-- Alan King had the answer to this one. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 02:29, 5 February 2010 (UTC)No, in that video Mr. King seems unaware that men marry women much younger than themselves with predictable result.Cuddlyable3 (talk) 16:58, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

6) What has the motto of the whole track been?

7) What have you been doing the last 76 Trillion years?

8) How do you increase your horse power as a thetan?

9) Why do children sometimes not want to eat their food?

10) Why do babies don’t talk? (It is not because of their age)

Cuddlyable3 (talk) 22:34, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

In order: no because there is no objective proof of thetans; no because time is an abstraction, not something that can be invented; yes, see food science; no (unless possibly you first prove the premise); probably (if the premise is true); I don't know because I don't know what "the whole track" is; yes, at least for the infinitesimal portion of 76tn years I've actually been around; no, same reason as the first; yes, see child psychology; no, since the premise is clearly ridiculous. Marnanel (talk) 22:45, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia has articles about Thetan and the whole track that may help. Or not. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 22:53, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

(EC) As I suspect you already knew, at least some of those are loaded questions. Some of the other just plain don't make no sense. That is, they don't make sense if you haven't been immersed into Scientology lore - which makes them useless questions to pose to a non-believer. What you want to do if you're drafting for your local cult religion is pose questions that don't reek of that same local cult's hermetic practices - you wanna get your new cultists believers by pulling them in gently. Your local Scientology chapter really should get a better PR manager... TomorrowTime (talk) 22:52, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Don't know if it is an objective answer but my usual answer to people asking me rubbish like that is something like 'Thanks but I'm not interested". Dmcq (talk) 23:35, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Or you could answer with a question, such as, "What has a trunk with no key; weighs 2,000 pounds; and lives in a circus?" ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 02:37, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

A tree and a fat clown. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 12:21, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

That's a pretty good answer. The one I was thinking of was from Duck Soup. Prosecutor: "That's irrelevant." Chicolini: "Hey, that's the answer! There's a lot 'r elevents in the circus!" ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 23:27, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

I numbered your questions for you to make them easier to reference. 1) False or unproven presupposition that Thetan's exist 2) Depending on who you talk to time may be a fundamental structure of the universe (Newtonian time) in which case it was certainly not invented unless you believe in a universal creator. Another philosophical doctrine, Kant and Leibniz style time, is that time is fundamental intellectual structure (together with space and number) within which humans and other organisms sequence and compare events and is not materially real. Good luck with that second one. 3) This is certainly phrased in a loaded way, but if you want to be unambiguous, then humans gain weight because they intake more mass through their diet and, to a negligible extent, air (air isn't so negligible when you are an autotroph) than they lose through excretion. 4) Has a false or at least unproven presupposition. 5) Life expectancy#Gender differences. Also it is impossible for any human male to outlive all human females that will ever be barring redefining the notions of "human", "males", or "females", extreme human population dieoff, and immortality. 6) No idea, probably you can look this one up if the whole track exists and it has a motto. 7) According to the best accepted astrophysical explanations: I have been living X years, gestating for Y months, and most of the mass that comprises me has been recirculating through various biogeochemical processes (when they came into existance) such as the food web, the carbon cycle, the nitrogen cycle, the water cycle, etc for 4.54 billion years. Before then my mass was probably localized in a molecular cloud that gravitationally collapsed 4.6 billion years ago to form the solar system and probably several other stars as well. The molecular cloud was probably short lived, but for about 8.6 bya before then, my mass would have been part of various stars, nebulae, dust and gas of the milky way's interstellar medium, and components of other galaxies and the intergalactic medium drawn in by the milky way's gravity. Before that, for probably around 400 million years my mass was fairly homogeneously distributed neutral hydrogen and helium atoms busy contributing to the cosmic microwave background. Before then, it was rather complicated and you can read more about it here [1]. Everything that occurred before 75.98627± 0.00012 trillion years ago I can't account for or may be irrelevant as time may have not existed. 8) False or unproven presupposition that thetans exist and I am in fact a thetan, but I can increase my horsepower by increasing my metabolic rate through exercising, and I can increase my horse power by purchasing more horses. 9) Children may not want to eat their food for a variety of reasons such as simply not liking it, not being hungry, being sated, having ulcers or other painful internal afflictions, or expressing independence by not doing what you would like them to do. 10) Their levels of language acquisition and speech production are not adequate assuming "don't talk" is a grammatical error and not some sort of jargon. Also, some babies may have a developmental or voice disorder that delays or makes it impossible to speak. 152.16.15.144 (talk) 02:54, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

I can make heads or tails out of all but number six -- the motto of the whole track? mkay... Number two is being equivocal about the term 'invented', but I get the gist of it. Vranak (talk) 13:43, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

lolling forever at question 4, but I'm interested how you came to have this. Scientology is usually very good at separating the in-group communications from the out-group, and this uses in-group terms and ideas. 86.179.145.61 (talk) 15:14, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

As a general rule, a question without context is like a tree without roots: it stands or falls according to the direction of the wind. so which way is your wind blowing? --Ludwigs2 15:39, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

I think the answer to your title question is No. Let us progress from there.

1.I'm going for 'first cousin twice removed'.Either that or 'very bad,since the body at sleep hogs the duvet,and leaves the Thetan with only half the bedclothes and so rather cold.'

2.Something happened.Anything.Then we get before that event,during it and after. That's a concept of time which means time in some form must have arrived. If it had to be invented,someone had to have invented it,which begs the question of what it was like before time was invented,and since time is such a fundamental concept,imagining living without it makes my brain hurt.

3 can easily be dealt with. People put on weight by eating lots.Fatty,sugary foods do the trick-scarf down a ocuple of boxes of doughnuts a day with a fryup for tea and then couch potatoing will add the weight.To lose it,eat healthily,sensibly and exercise.

4.The person who can answer this will be a multi-millionaire.We would all like to do.Which specific part of sex is the puzzle? The physical bit is quite straightforward-put this thing into this hole. The more puzzling bits-why won't he/she/it have sex with me?Especially when they will with someone else?Why aren't I enjoying it? Why does he/she/it like these weird sexual practices? have kept manual writers busy for years-especially the differences between male and female perception-emotional vs practical etc. Some women find sex a puzzle,some men don't.

5 pretty much answers itself with that sometimes. Men sometimes die earlier than women,which means that sometimes they don't and women die earlier. Take your choice of reasons why someone dies early- disease,illness,murder,car accident,suicide,wondering 'what this button does if I press it?'

6.Google is your friend.Apparently,'The Whole Track' is some sort of music portfolio group and their motto is 'We live in an interactive world'.

7.That's a heck of a long time.Make it 'What were you doing for the night of the 17th' and you might stand a better chance. I suppose perfecting omnipotence,creating a few billion words and universes-and learning to answer daft questions.That practice certainly seems to be coming in handy.

8.Pedal harder.Or get more horses.

9.They don't like the taste,they're already full,they're ill,all the reasons you don't eat your food.Or they're just vindictive little brats who are out to cause trouble with a hunger strike.

10.Well,they may not be able to talk,but they've mastered grammar.'Why do babies don't talk?'Yikes.They produce noises that express their feelings-I'm hungry,I'm cold,I'm thirsty,I want to sleep,I want you to stop tossing me around like a rugby ball.'Most of these noises are identical.To determine exactly what each honk means,you need a baby translator-This gentleman has exactly what you require.

Next week:Why the aliens are coming to take us home to the planet Vlarg.All hail Kang and Kodos Lemon martini (talk) 01:25, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

More religious mockery on the reference desk. We're the 95%, you know. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.54.94.43 (talk) 07:35, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

What religious mockery do you mean? On my bookshelf I have: "Scientology has opened the gates to a better World. It is not a psycho-therapy nor a religion." (my emphasis) L. Ron Hubbard, Page 251, Creation of Human Ability (c) 1954 L. Ron Hubbard. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 15:04, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

208: Being in the majority doesn't make you either right or worthy of any special respect. It is a fact that the percentage of people who believe in religion drops rapidly as a function of intelligence and educational level - and since there are a lot of very well educated and intelligent people here (that's how we manage to answer all of these difficult questions) - you're probably in the minority. Wikipedia (and the Ref Desk) are about fact - and religion is very light indeed on actual fact. I personally reserve the right to mock religion and those who are stupid enough to believe in it as I see fit. In any case, the scientology "believers" are most definitely not a large part of "your" 95%. Technically, it's not even a religion - so a good fraction of it's enthusiasts are presumably in the remaining 5% anyway. SteveBaker (talk) 01:35, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

SteveBaker your claim to belong to "we...very well educated and intelligent people" makes one wonder who educated you in English because neither they nor corrections given to you on the Ref. Desk have taught you that "it is enthusiasts are" is abuse of the grammatical contraction it's = it is. For that you have only yourself to blame, irregardless tedious ranting against allegedly sub-intelligent under-educated stupid mock-worthy fact-ignorant religionists. Amen.Cuddlyable3 (talk) 16:51, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Excessive thanks

I've noticed this sort of thing time and again, and I've probably done it myself a few times.

Scenario: Two people, A and B, are approaching a door into a supermarket, office, whatever. A opens the door and holds it open so B can pass through. B thanks A. What could A say to B? Usually it would be something like "You're welcome". But often, A thanks B in return; they'll actually say "Thank you".

My question is: What is A thanking B for? B didn't do anything for A. It seems like excessive politeness. Oh, I'd rather they err on this side than be impolite, but what's the cultural transaction here? Are people taught to do this, or do they just sort of slip in to it unthinkingly, perhaps using "Thank you" as a sort of catch-all expression that can be applied to a wide range of polite circumstances that don't necessarily have much to do with actual literal gratitude? One wouldn't walk up to a friend one has just spotted on the street and say "Thank you" for the sake of being polite - so there are situations where it's definitely out of place. In my scenario above, it seems just as out of place and I could imagine a latter-day Monty Python team making fun of it:

• A opens door for B.
• B: Why, thank you.
• A: Thank you.
• B: What are you thanking me for, you stupid cow? I didn't do a damn thing for you. Now piss off and keep your irrelevant thanks to yourself. Oh, have a nice day. -- 202.142.129.66 (talk) 22:36, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

I think you have answered your own question and given us a joke too. Thank you! Cuddlyable3 (talk) 22:42, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

I have noticed a number of times where people seem to use "thanks" not as a method for thanking but rather as a method of ending a conversation as quickly and politely as possible. Many times, it's when they're distracted and cannot put the normal level of thought in their speech. At first it caught me off guard as well, but I grew to use it myself (semi-consciously) because it really is more effective than quickly blurting out, "yesyourewelcomeImsorrybutIminabitofahurryrightnowbye". Matt Deres (talk) 23:12, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Isn't the logic of this is that you are 'thanking' them for thanking you (i.e. appreciating their being polite)? 194.221.133.226 (talk) 09:49, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Maybe. But then, shouldn't they thank you for thanking them? Where does it ever end? I mean, among polite people politeness is a given, a sine qua non of normal behaviour, and it's not something that merits especial praise or even acknowledgment, I would have thought. Like virtue, politeness is its own reward. -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 09:56, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

[2]. Deor (talk) 16:06, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Deor, dat doesn't download downunder, dammit - but tks anyway. -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 21:27, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, Jack. Here's the same sequence (and more) on YouTube. And thank yo! Deor (talk) 22:57, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Oh no, don't mention it. Thank you! -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 23:10, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

In some places, I think a "thank you" - with an appropriate measure of very pleasant surprise - is appropirate, because there is so little politeness and so much rudeness in some places. But, the problem with that is, it can easily become condescending; it's one thing to praise a child for being polite (as I did to one who was the only one to say "thank you" when I held the door open for a large group of kids once), another to a grown up.

I wonder if part of it is actually repetition. In our fast-paced lives, perhaps we are so harried and rushed that our minds can't quite conjure up the appropiate phrase ("you're welcome"), but we know that we're supposed to say *something* polite. So, in attempting to blurt something out that sounds polite, we accidentally mimic the "thanks" that we received from someone else. Does that sound plausible? Ir, is that just something I do at times becuase my brain is wired a bit differently?Somebody or his brother (talk) 16:20, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Sounds plausible to me. I doubt anyone's done a study of this sort of thing. It's only very odd people like me who ever notice it, I guess. -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 21:27, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

personally, I always saw it as a thanks for recognizing the politeness. I mean, when you open the door for someone, and they walk through it with their nose in the air (as though it is only right and natural that a person such as you should defer to a person such as them), you just want to follow it up with a good, hard kick to the nearest available bodily surface. the extra thank you is thanks for acknowledging that it is politeness amongst equals. --Ludwigs2 21:35, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

In that circumstance, a loud, sarcastic and unsolicited "That's perfectly all right, you're very welcome, I'm sure" comes in handy. -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 22:19, 6 February 2010 (UTC)