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September 30

Memento Aomori

According to our article on Aomori, the original name of this Japanese city was 善知鳥村 Utō-mura. Now, how to you get that pronunciation from those kanji? If I'm not mistaken the last character 村 should be -mura (village). But the rest? Thank you! 95.238.49.112 (talk) 14:56, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

By morpho-ambulating helplessly through jawiki, it seems it corresponds to an old form of ja:ウトウ, the name for the Rhinoceros auklet, who I deem a cute little guy. Apparently, that's ultimately a loanword from Ainu, neat! Remsense ‥ 论 15:10, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I suspect it is a nanori. ColinFine (talk) 17:34, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"Turn it up now"

In 1950s England, was this phrase:

Equivalent to "settle down", or
In its French translation, one of the few phrases known to a beginner, for some reason?

I ask because I'm curious about the phrase as it appears at the foot of this page in one of the Nigel Molesworth books. Card Zero (talk) 17:52, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"Turn it up!" means "stop it", "settle down", "lay off", etc. The French looks like Molesworth's attempt. DuncanHill (talk) 18:31, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, so it really does mean that. Interesting in the light of wikt:turn up sense #6 (and the song Turn down for what, which by all reports intended that sense). I see Molesworth's sense of "turn up" is missing from Wiktionary, although the nautical sense 5 (fasten lines down) might be related? Card Zero (talk) 19:18, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"turn it up", not "turn up". OED has "transitive. slang (chiefly British). To give up, abandon (an activity). Formerly also intransitive: †to throw up or abandon one's work, to give up (obsolete). Now only in imperative as turn it up: used as a warning to desist, esp. from objectionable talk; ‘shut up’, ‘come off it’. DuncanHill (talk) 19:45, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Seems counterintuitive. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:10, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

An idiom (which this is), by definition does not mean what it would if read literally, and has to be learned from its cultural context and use. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.6.86.81 (talk) 21:35, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I just wonder where it came from. Typically, "turn it up" would mean to increase something, not decrease it. A more fitting expression would seem to be "dial it down" or "dial it back". English is weird. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:15, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The usage is cited back to 1819, rather earlier than your dials. A related usage is "transitive. To give up, renounce, abandon, cast off, discard (an associate). Now rare (slang in later use)" which goes back to 1541. DuncanHill (talk) 22:34, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. My question is why? What is "it" that's being "turned up"? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:59, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The "it" is whatever activity the speaker wishes to be ceased. Perhaps it originates from a once familiar activity where 'turning up' was a thing: one possibility that occurs to me is that on a sailing vessel with fore-and-aft rig (like most yachts), one can come to a standstill by turning the bows up to point directly into the wind. (This application of 'up' is still in use, as anyone following the current activities in Barcelona will know.)

I believe there is a technical term for such indeterminate 'its', which I've forgotten. Another example: when we say "It's raining", what exactly is "it"? {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.6.86.81 (talk) 01:47, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe you're trying to remember "dummy pronoun"? --Antiquary (talk) 08:38, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Looks like a merger of "turn in" and "give it up", if I am to guess. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 23:23, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

We may never know. Idiomatic phrases arise amongst us hoi polloi, who have no reason to record definitions of them in writing. By the time the lexicographical elite notice them, nobody may remember their actual origin. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.6.86.81 (talk) 14:01, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Etymonline has "turn up" as attested from c. 1400 (originally "dig up, uproot"), which kind of fits. But then, the nautical meaning of "tie it down" also kind of fits, as does the other nautical meaning of "stop your yacht". Card Zero (talk) 17:42, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Green’s Dictionary of Slang has it back to 1812. I can't find my A Dictionary of Slang and Unconventional English by the great Eric Partridge, but I would bet my bottom dollar it's in there.

I just recently saw the British 60's movie The Kitchen, and there was a small part of dialogue where "turn it in" and "turn it up" were used in tandem. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 11:56, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]