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July 20

Should Afghanistan be considered part of West, Central, or South Asia?

exactly what it says on the tin

Duckmather (talk) 04:11, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Based on the article, South Asia. GalacticShoe (talk) 04:21, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Also, Afghanistan is a member of the South Asian Association for Regional Cooperation. --Lambiam 09:39, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Look, these geographic units are completely arbitrary. You can consider Afghanistan as part of all of these regions, and these regional identities are not necessarily mutually exclusive. If you define 'West Asia' as Greater Middle East, then Afghanistan can be part of it, but let's be clear that the notion of a 'West Asian' region is a construct that only exist in the mind of people outside the supposed region. In terms of Central Asia vs South Asia, Afghanistan doesn't match perfectly in neither, Afghanistan was not directly part of Soviet Union as the rest of Central Asia and was not directly part of British empire as the rest of South Asia. Then the UN georegions is a different story, but UN region allocation is not a particularly important categorization except for UN employees. --Soman (talk) 13:36, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

And it's confusing for UN employees too. WHO places Afghanistan in the ludicrous 'Eastern Mediterranean Region'. OCHA where I work, at least places Afghanistan in the somewhat more sensible 'Asia Pacific' region. (There is a concept called the "One UN" that nobody in the UN believes in.) Hayttom (talk) 00:40, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

And other entities don't put it in Asia Pacific; Australia Post has five international pricing zones (New Zealand, Asia Pacific, US and Canada, UK and Europe, and Rest of the World), and per their zones page, Afghanistan is "Rest of the World", like Iran, but unlike India or Pakistan. I suppose the situation is like that of Germany and Austria: are they Central or Western Europe? See plenty of discussions of this subject at Talk:Germany. Nyttend (talk) 22:19, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

{{ping|Soman}} Here's a follow up question: Culturally, which of these three regions is Afghanistan most similar to? Duckmather (talk) 00:50, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @Duckmather:. Ping template won't work if you place nowiki tags around it. I don't know, to be frank. Depends a bit on what criteria of 'culture' you are looking at. Afghanistan is majority Pashtu, in the border areas of Pakistan you'd find a lot of commonalities in terms of food, clothing, language, religion, etc. But what would be the 'cultural' link between Herat and Jaffna? I'm tempted to say that Central Asia is somehow closer, at least in terms of cuisine, but Central Asian socieities are generally much more secularized. Whilst Afghanistan has large Tajik and Uzbek populations my personal understanding is that there isn't the same level of cross-border cultural linkages as with the Pakistan border areas. But I could be wrong here. --Soman (talk) 12:23, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"West Asia"? Isn't that Europe?--User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 14:08, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Word for office selling lottery tickets

Is there a word in English for a office selling lottery tickets? Dipsacus fullonum (talk) 09:30, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Lottery tickets are sold by "lottery retailers", which are typically not specialized offices but, for example, tobacco shops, gas stations and convenience stores. For example, tickets for Landbrugslotteriet in Denmark are sold by many, diverse retailers.^[1] In some countries they are also sold by street hawkers.^[2] --Lambiam 10:05, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This is true now, but historically there have been many offices/stores in Denmark whose sole purpose has been to sell lottery tickets. The Danish word for such lottery sales outlets is “lotterikollektion”. My question is whether there is an equivalent word in English for a shop that only sells lottery tickets. Dipsacus fullonum (talk) 10:20, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Tickets for the National Lottery (United Kingdom) can be bought from newsagents, supermarkets and local grocer's shops, although at the outset in the 1990s, post offices were the main outlets.

I was curious about the 17th and 18th century goverment lotteries, such as the Million Lottery, but it seems that the £10 tickets could only be afforded by the very wealthy and were obtained from the Bank of England through a stock broker. [3] Alansplodge (talk) 11:09, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As far as I know, none of the English speaking countries ever had shops dedicated to just selling lottery tickets, so they wouldn’t need a word for such shops. Blueboar (talk) 12:53, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(edit conflict) If there were a need for a word, then "lottery office" would probably suffice. English is not fond of the compound words that are found in other Germanic languages. Alansplodge (talk) 15:21, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

English is very fond of them (see Noun adjunct), but it only spells them as single words (with no internal space or hyphen) in limited circumstances... AnonMoos (talk) 18:23, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

When I was in Portugal the streets were full of people selling lottery tickets. I assumed this was normal for countries operating a lottery (basically all of them except Britain). There was also the Totobola, a kind of national football pool which I believed to be widespread in Europe, although I don't know who sold the tickets - the results were announced on the radio at 7 PM on a Sunday night. When the British lottery came in it was controlled almost as much as the football pools, the emphasis being on tickets not being available on the street, and the pools seem to have largely died out. Similar coupons which were not pools were not so restricted - fixed odds football coupons are available in betting shops.[Edit] Totobola is apparently run by the Roman Catholic Church. 2A00:23A8:1:D801:A94B:5D04:D466:F650 (talk) 15:17, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Google Maps seems to prefer "lottery retailer". Abductive (reasoning) 21:01, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, but that refers to any store selling lottery tickets - which might also (primarily) be a gas/petrol station, a grocery store, a tobacconist, etc. Blueboar (talk) 21:36, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The lottery distribution network is based on that of the football pools. Nobody is allowed to visit National Lottery headquarters - agents come to winners. Bookmakers were formerly "turf accountants". It was illegal to visit their offices (the only place a bookmaker was allowed to operate was on the racecourse or at a dog track). Off-course credit betting was allowed, but punters had to phone their bets in (or post them). Notwithstanding, punters did visit their local "turf accountant". Every so often offices were raided - advance notice was given by the police of who would be targeted. Bookmakers employed "runners" who would illegally visit factories, hand out betting slips and results and collect cash bets. Pools companies termed these people "collectors" - clients could not visit the pools companies' offices but had to post coupons with the stake for the previous week's losing coupons. Later they were allowed to enclose the current week's stake. This system enabled those who wanted to cut ties with the pools company to stop receiving supplies of coupons through the post - they would send in coupons without money. The companies would then write back to say that because of the clients' "bad debts" they were being removed from the mailing list for coupons. Some collectors visited clients to collect coupons and stakes and they may have had an office clients could visit - Kelly's Post Office London Directory 1976 has an entry for "Vernons Pools: area office (7), 556 Garratt la SW 17". Otherwise, collectors operated much like lottery outlets - they did not advertise, but if you went into their shop you might well see coupons on the counter. One place you would not see football pool coupons was in the betting shops after legalisation. Television was not allowed, so commentary and results came over a telephone line from the Exchange Telegraph Ltd, otherwise known for relaying share prices. Casino bets were settled by cheque. In the nineteenth century the Prince of Wales was involved in the "Royal Baccarat Scandal", when it was alleged the gambling was conducted in a house where gambling was a business (and hence illegal) rather than socially in a private home. 92.29.246.121 (talk) 14:09, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, I don't see the connection between my question and this story from an unspecified location. Dipsacus fullonum (talk) 14:57, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I do not see a response discussing how it was done in England. It used to be that a broker (the predecessor to stock brokers) purchased the right to sell lottery tickets from the crown. The broker then ran a brokerage, where lottery tickets could be purchased. But, successful brokers didn't require customers to come to them. They hired runners to go to the customers and sell the tickets. Also, specific to your question, there was no requirement that a brokerage could only sell lottery tickets. They certainly ran a successful business to have the income to purchase rights to broker the lottery tickets. 12.116.29.106 (talk) 15:35, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Such shops appear to exist in at least one US state, in connection with the Ohio Lottery. Growing up, I remember seeing shops with names such as "So-and-so's Lotto", which suggested to me that they were primarily or exclusively retailers of lottery tickets. (My bank account is too small, and my awareness of probability too large, to allow me to patronise such businesses, so I don't know if they sell anything else.) But I've never heard a term that includes them while excluding convenience shops, groceries, etc. Nyttend (talk) 22:00, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks to everyone who contributed answers to my question. --Dipsacus fullonum (talk) 20:22, 1 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment (slightly post festum): The OED seemingly have no alternative to Lottery office which it defines as

"A place where lottery tickets are sold and redeemed; frequently attributive, as lottery-office clerk, lottery-office keeper".

I cannort see whether or not this implies exclusivity. OED gives 1735 as the year of the first known instance of the bare term "lottery office" (but a somewhat earlier time for "Malt-Lottery Office"). JoergenB (talk) 17:51, 2 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What part of this is a hate crime?

I'm reading this news article [4] about 2 men who allegedly spray painted “FREE GAZA” on an Israeli flag at a grocery store. The police are charging them with damage to property, disorderly conduct and hate crimes. I get why they're being charged with damage to property and disorderly conduct, but I'm not sure what part of this is a hate crime. If they had spray painted "kill all the k***s", that would be hate crime. I don't know if a serious political opinion like "free Gaza" is being treated as a hate crime. Or maybe there's more to what happened then was explained in the news article? A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 23:40, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The example with the slur is gratuitous (I'd suggest refactoring your question) and we are not going to be able to solve all of the real or philosophical problems involved in the war here, but to answer the question it would make sense to go to the applicable criminal code, which is here. The two are accused of "misdemeanor criminal damage to property", and the applicable law defines this as a hate crime when it involves "the actual or perceived race, color, creed, religion, ancestry, gender, sexual orientation, physical or mental disability, citizenship, immigration status, or national origin of another individual or group of individuals, regardless of the existence of any other motivating factor or factors." Presumably the prosecutors will argue that this applies, but the accused have not been convicted of any crimes yet, so some jury will be tasked with answering the question you pose, or perhaps the accused will plead guilty to lesser charges. Dekimasuよ! 03:33, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Somewhat obviously, the lawyers for the defendant may argue that the request to end the war was not directed to an individual or group of individuals (who would not be able to end the war anyway, whether they want it to end or not), but towards the State of Israel, represented by its flag. The flag was presumably put up to express support of Israel in view of the current conflict, and the spray-painting was clearly intended as a protest against such support, but AFAIK there is no reason to assume that the store employees who put up the flag were Jewish, and even less so that the alleged protesters knew their religion, ancestry, or national origin, which would be a mens rea requirement for this being a hate crime. While it is generally unpredictable how a jury will respond, this specific charge (not by the police, but by prosecutors), unless they know something not revealed in the news article, gives a bit the feeling of throwing things against the wall to see what will stick. --Lambiam 08:48, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Defacing any country's flag can be a hate crime. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 18:08, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Per Texas v. Johnson and United States v. Eichman, desecration of the Flag of the United States is protected speech and thereby not a crime. --Lambiam 20:39, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I wouldn't count on that ruling applying in this case. Also, can you imagine the outrage if someone vandalized a Gaza flag with pro-Israel writing? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:20, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(a) You wrote, "any country's flag". Last time I heard, the US was still a country. (b) I have a hard time imagining the hypothetical perp being charged with a hate crime. This may, of course, be due to a weakness of my power of imagination. --Lambiam 13:56, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You did not imagine our "hypothetical perp" might be Canadian, either that or something about human nature. fiveby(zero) 17:05, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There is no "flag of Gaza" (there are the Palestinian and Hamas flags). Anyway, in U.S. law, a precedent was set in the Bremen flag incident of 1935, when a Nazi flag was destroyed, but at the time it had a somewhat ambiguous legal status in Germany (it certainly wasn't the official main national flag), so a U.S. court ruled that no diplomatic insult had occurred... AnonMoos (talk) 17:07, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It will be up to a jury and the court system to decide whether it's a hate crime. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 19:45, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Also, someone could paint "free Gaza" on a Hamas flag, on the premise that it is Hamas who hold the Palestinians hostage and have brought this disaster upon Gaza. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 19:47, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You think Gaza was free before the Hamas takeover? DuncanHill (talk) 19:55, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Compared to what they have become? So who's the idiot?[5] ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 20:06, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Nothing to do with flags, but though Gaza around 1980 was no paradise, Gazans had a large degree of freedom of movement then, and there were no heavily-fortified borders. The difference between then and now is almost entirely due to the effects of decades of attacks on Jews emanating from Gaza... AnonMoos (talk) 21:38, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Why do you choose 1980? Hamas was founded in 1987, Israeli blockade began in 2005, Hamas Gaza takeover was 2007. But you know that already. There have been decades of attacks on Palestinians emanating from Israel... But you know that too. DuncanHill (talk) 09:35, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe you've forgotten the terrorist attacks on Israelis, in particular the one during the 1972 Summer Olympic Games. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 13:13, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I presume that part of the issue here is that it isn't just "free Gaza" but that "free Gaza" has specifically been spraypainted onto an Israeli flag, which directs it "at" someone much more obviously than spraypainting "free Gaza" onto a local bridge or abandoned building or what-have-you. But to answer your question in general, you may be interested to read this article, which outlines how this sort of thing has gone recently in Canada. -- asilvering (talk) 04:16, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"Free Gaza" is protected speech. Vandalizing someone else's property is not. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 23:56, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]