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August 26

Oppenheimer movie and German A-bomb

In the trailer of Oppenheimer (film), there is a scene where General Groves tells Oppenheimer that the Nazis have a 12-month head start on the A-bomb. Oppenheimer replies "eighteen", and Groves asks "how do you know that?". ``````````````` What is Oppie's reply in that scene, and does anyone know if it is historically accurate? I haven't seen the movie but don't worry about spoilers. I've read most of the books about Oppenheimer. 2601:644:8501:AAF0:4043:7961:893C:EC1 (talk) 02:55, 26 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I think American knowledge of the state of Germany's research was sketchy at best. The main issue in determining how much head start the Germans had depends on what you consider the starting points of both the German and American efforts. I guess Germany's program formally started in September 1939 (formation of the second Uranverein). I think you could date the start of the American program to October 1939 (first meeting of the Advisory Committee on Uranium) or June 1940 (creation of the National Defense Research Committee). The German nuclear weapons program during WWII is a highly complex subject with few easy answers. For more information take a look at the relevant articles, in particular:

-- Random person no 362478479 (talk) 18:51, 26 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I believe the first nuclear weapons project was Tube Alloys. DuncanHill (talk) 19:10, 26 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, the British contribution to the Manhattan Project doesn't really get a mention in the film, only that Klaus Fuchs turned out to be spying for the Soviets. Alansplodge (talk) 12:28, 28 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

As to American knowledge of Germany's research, The Bastard Brigade by Sam Kean is an interesting read. --142.112.221.184 (talk) 07:50, 27 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The Norwegian heavy water sabotage operations from 1940 onwards were intended to prevent the Germans from getting enough material for a bomb. Alansplodge (talk) 12:37, 28 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Interestingly, I've just been reading Most Secret War (archive.org, free reg, borrowable for 1 hour at a time, no pdf, three copies available), written by the director of Air Intelligence R. V. Jones He was the brains behind most of the RAF's direction-finding equipment and British efforts to jam the German equivalents - see Battle of the beams. Info about the German efforts to make a nuclear weapon is scattered throughout the book, including the raids on the Norwegian heavy water plant. Chapter 42, p. 472, "Nuclear Energy" details his findings. He was lucky to have access to the entire raw output of Enigma machine and to all the captured German generals and some scientists after the war, for interviews. He says Werner Heisenberg had visited Niels Bohr in Copenhagen in 1941 and implied that the Germans were working on the problem. Heisenberg may have considerably over-calculated the amount of Uranium-235 needed to destroy a city - up to 40 tons. Albert Speer said that Hitler would definitely have used the bomb if it had been available. (note, pp. 483-4) Pic of the German experimental nuclear pile just before p. 397. The whole book is fascinating, often both funny and moving. Highly recommended to anyone interested in that sort of thing. MinorProphet (talk) 12:05, 29 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The meeting between Heisenberg and Bohr is famous. For one thing it seems to have put an end to their friendship. For another no-one really knows what happened or what they talked about because of conflicting accounts. See Copenhagen_(play)#Historical_debate. Heisenberg's role in the German program is also the subject of debate. He later more less claimed that he was actively working on not developing the bomb and that he only joined the project to prevent its success. See Operation_Epsilon, Werner_Heisenberg#German_nuclear_weapons_program, Werner_Heisenberg#Post-Second_World_War. -- Random person no 362478479 (talk) 17:08, 29 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Heisenberg wasn't alone. von Weizsäcker, quoted in Jones's Most Secret War (pp. 482-3), said: "I believe the reason we did not do it was that all the physicists did not want to do it, on principle...If we had wanted to win the war we could have succeeded." His colleague Erich Bagge was of the opposite view, but Otto Hahn, the original co-discoverer of nuclear fission and Nobel prize winner was so upset at the vast destruction of humanity that he had to be refrained from committing suicide (ibid). MinorProphet (talk) 03:46, 30 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks everyone, the history stuff was interesting, but to be clear, my question was: what happens in a certain described scene in the recent Christopher Nolan movie about Oppenheimer? Whether the movie shows historical reality is a secondary question. 2601:644:8501:AAF0:0:0:0:E23B (talk) 04:00, 30 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Am just about to start watching the film (ahem) for your benefit and my interest. <aside> The score of the TV series by Carl Davis (including eight pianos and as many double-basses) is one of the best things I've ever heard. The ensuing LP was particularly bad in comparison. I'm unlikely to be watching Barbie.</aside> I'll let you know how I get on.. MinorProphet (talk) 16:37, 31 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! The Nolan movie is supposed to also have a good score. The movie has gotten positive reviews but I'm personally uneager to watch it because I'm fairly familiar with the history it covers. I figure I'll catch it on video someday. 2601:644:8501:AAF0:B556:6305:5857:2300 (talk) 20:34, 31 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]