Wikipedia:Peer review/Artemy Vedel/archive1

Artemy Vedel

I've listed this article for peer review because I'm keen to get it to become a FA (if I succeed it will be the first one for me that isn't about a Norfolk topic)

Thanks, Amitchell125 (talk) 21:56, 7 October 2022 (UTC)

STANDARD NOTE: I have added this PR to the Template:FAC peer review sidebar to get quicker and more responses. When this PR is closed, please remove it from the list. Also, consider adding the sidebar to your userpage to help others discover pre-FAC PRs, and please review other articles in that template. Thanks! Z1720 (talk) 16:36, 10 October 2022 (UTC)

Comments from Gerda

Thank you for a good article about a man who is known too little!

Lead

• kapellmeister? (lower case) as not German but English meaning

Capital removed.

• "Divine Liturgy" italic?

Not as far as I am aware.

• link to "psalms"?

Done.

• link "Italian" perhaps better to Baroque?

Please could you clarify what you mean?

I think a link to Music of Italy is too broad, and links to Italian Opera#18th century and perhaps Concerto grosso might be better. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:05, 10 November 2022 (UTC)

 Done apart from the last one. Amitchell125 (talk) 13:47, 10 November 2022 (UTC)

Infobox

• usually no red links there - best solved by writing that article

 Done Amitchell125 (talk) 16:04, 10 November 2022 (UTC)

TOC

• perhaps have one level 2 with two level 3 for references?

Sorry, can you clarify what you mean here? Amitchell125 (talk) 14:01, 10 November 2022 (UTC)

Background

• perhaps it would deserve a sentence that in the early 19th century, West-European music was classical heading towards Romantic, while counterpoint , 4-voice polyphony and concerto grosso are rather Baroque features

 Partly done Amitchell125 (talk) 20:57, 10 November 2022 (UTC)

Family

• perhaps a pic of the church he belonged to (interior preferred) would illustrate the cultural background better than a street map if there's no room for both?

 Not done I've uploaded an image of the (now destroyed) church onto WikiCommons, but there's no evidence the family attended it, only that they lived in the parish. Amitchell125 (talk) 16:48, 10 November 2022 (UTC)

Moscow

• comma needed after General of Moscow

Done.

• "at time"?

Sorted.

• do we know which year he returned?

Period added.

 Done Amitchell125 (talk) 17:35, 10 November 2022 (UTC)

Levanidov

• pic left?

Done.

• "concertos" rather than "concerts"? - link? if these were larger works italic instead of quotation marks? (Bach called his cantatas "concerto".)

Concerts is the correct term.

• if quotation, then sentence case

There are no quotations—they are the names of works, but I've put them in sentence case, which looks better.

• do we know about texts for these concertos? Biblical?

I looked before, and found nothing, but I'll look again.

 Done Amitchell125 (talk) 16:58, 10 November 2022 (UTC)

Novice

• "canticle" seems not to be the normal meaning of the term

Agreed, word replaced.

( Done Amitchell125 (talk) 17:38, 10 November 2022 (UTC)

Imprisonment

• comma needed after Kyiv

Done.

• offer a year along with "after nine years"

Done.

 Done Amitchell125 (talk) 17:03, 10 November 2022 (UTC)

Composition

• title of autograph italic?

 Done Amitchell125 (talk) 17:46, 10 November 2022 (UTC)

Style

• I believe that tenor singer and Ukrainian folk melodies should go to the lead

Done.

• I believe the move from Renaissance to Baroque was before his time, - the changes seem to have been slower in his part of the world, - perhaps clarify?

Done

 Done Amitchell125 (talk) 20:29, 10 November 2022 (UTC)

Censorship

• pic smaller to avoid displacement of next header?

 Done Amitchell125 (talk) 14:04, 10 November 2022 (UTC)

Revival

• I'd take some of that section to the lead, especially the difficulty of solo parts and large choruses

Done.

• offer a year for Ukraine becoming Soviet Union, and move the item of his music banned then also to the lead

Done.

 Done Amitchell125 (talk) 19:43, 10 November 2022 (UTC)

Recognition

• do we know what became of the intentions to celebrate in 2017?

I'm afraid not, it seems he got put on a commemorative stamp.

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 02:36, 10 November 2022 (UTC)

You've "done" a lot, - go for FAC and I can support. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:23, 11 November 2022 (UTC)

Comments from Tim riley

Not much from me. The article looks pretty much ready for FAC I think.

• General

• The article is clearly in BrE, and impeccable in that regard – with the exception of the persistent –ize endings, which despite dogged rearguard resistance from the Oxford University Press is now old hat in British usage. (The Times and the Cambridge University Press switched to –ise endings quite some time ago.) I don't say –ize endings are wrong, by any means, but in modern BrE they look both quaint and alien at the same time. But you must, of course, stick to your preferences if you have strong views on the matter.

Sorted.

• You blue-link rather too many words that seem to me to be everyday expressions: choral, chapel, patron, Russian, biography, operatic, infantry, chapel (again), decreed, patronage, depressed, censored, plaque. And we have duplicate links to Baroque music, St. Petersburg State Academic Capella, Russian Empire, Dmitry Bortniansky and musicologist. One apiece is the usual rule, and it saves the reader from being smacked in the eyeball with a barrage of blue.

Done.

• You refer to the then capital of Russia as "St. Petersburg", but our article on the city calls it "Saint Petersburg". I don't know if this matters or not, but I just mention it.

Done.

 Done Amitchell125 (talk) 21:29, 10 November 2022 (UTC)

• Lead

• "as one of the 'Golden Three' composers" – double quotes, rather than single, are specified by the Manual of Style.

Sorted.

• "Most of his choral music, uses texts" – unexpected comma

Sorted.

 Done Amitchell125 (talk) 07:27, 11 November 2022 (UTC)

• Background

• 'singing in parts' – single quotes, as above

Done.

• "the most notable name in Russian music" – this could do with a citation.

Text expanded and cited.

• "classical influences ... such as four-voice polyphony" – the association of polyphony with the classical era seems strange, but perhaps I have the wrong end of the stick.

I don't think there's a problem here.

 Done Amitchell125 (talk) 08:10, 11 November 2022 (UTC)

• Early years in Kyiv

• "the Italian operatic composer Giuseppe Sarti who spent 18 years as a composer" – composer twice in one sentence – could be smoother

 Done Amitchell125 (talk) 08:12, 11 November 2022 (UTC)

• Imprisonment and death

• "After 9 years' imprisonment" – I don't know of any firm rule, but I think it is usual to write numbers up to and including ten as words and to use digits for 11 onwards.

Done.

• "permission for a proper funeral, even though Vedel had been incarcerated in an asylum" – are we to take it that in the Russian Empire of the time people who had been in an asylum were usually not allowed a proper funeral? You ought to make this plain, if so.

Looking again at the text in Ukrainian (a friend helps me with such matters), I've amended the sentence, as it's not clear that all patients were denied proper funeral. It was more that Vedel was a political prisoner.

 Done Amitchell125 (talk) 09:45, 11 November 2022 (UTC)

• Compositions

• "an All-night vigil" – the capital A looks rather odd.

 Done Amitchell125 (talk) 10:52, 11 November 2022 (UTC)

• Musical style

• "Musicologists consider Vedel ... to previously unknown levels" – does citation 2 cover all 254 words and three separate statements here?

 Done Amitchell125 (talk) 11:02, 11 November 2022 (UTC)

I hope these comments are of use. Please let me know when you go to FAC. – 08:38, 10 November 2022 (UTC)

Afterthought: there are some recordings of Vedel's music: see here (WorldCat). If there's enough in there you might perhaps add a "Recordings" subsection to the Music section. Tim riley talk 09:28, 10 November 2022 (UTC)