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January 31

January 31, 2011 (2011-01-31) (Monday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

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Politics and elections

Sport

World's longest borehole

  • Don't mind more drilling? Then here it is:

The world's longest borehole is drilled offshore eastern Russia, at 12,345 meters (40,502 ft) long. [1]

Support as per nominator. However, I would prefer if the Sakhalin Island was in the blurb, because the article is very good. Crnorizec (talk) 22:18, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Does anyone notice the interesting number? Support, in principle, otherwise. --Tone 22:45, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Ha, that's indeed a nice number :) GreyHood Talk 22:57, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support The ITN template should always document such records. I remember the Gotthard Base Tunnel, which get posted when the drill was completed.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 22:49, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
How about this blurb:

The world's longest borehole is drilled offshore the Russian island Sakhalin, at 12,345 meters (40,502 ft) long.

It includes the Sakhalin island which I also thing is more appropriate.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 22:51, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Good one. Is Sakhalin-I article updated enough? GreyHood Talk 22:57, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
For me it's enough.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 23:44, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support as nominator. I've updated also the lead section of the article. GreyHood Talk 23:58, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Lake Vostok drilling

Support but wait. I was going to nominate it myself ;) This story has a very big importance for biology as well as for Antarctic and space exploration (Europa, the moon of Jupiter, could be drilled the same way). However, they still didn't manage to drill all the way down and reach the lake, so posting it would be prematural, and even discussing it until the successful end of drilling makes no sense. GreyHood Talk 18:35, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Strong support pending published results. Significant implications for multiple fields. ~AH1(TCU) 19:52, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Many months could pass until we have published results, even if they manage to reach the lake in this season. So I believe we may post the end of drilling itself. GreyHood Talk 20:28, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hm. I believe we may report it this way, even if they don't manage to get to the lake itself:

That's a technological record, and anyway it will provide new valuable scientific results, since using ice cores they study ancient climates etc. But still we need to wait until February 6 when they will stop the work and we will have data about how long this ice core is, exactly. GreyHood Talk 20:40, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

We should wait until we know whether or not they reached it before deciding whether to post. That could be a few days, but there's no reason this thread can't be bumped up the page if necessary. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 03:47, 1 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. Arbitrary depth is boring. The guys doing the drilling probably don't care. Reaching liquid is the important thing. Abductive (reasoning) 13:26, 1 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

IPv4 address exhaustion again

It is around 10 mill addresses left, and the IANA pool is supposedly going to be out in the 1st. Nergaal (talk) 08:03, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose. While the topic is definitely notable, there is no official counter, which means no one knows the exact date when IPv4 addresses exhaust. --bender235 (talk) 08:32, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • That's nonsensical -- when IANA says they don't have any more addresses to assign - an event that will most definitely make news -- that's when the supply is officially exhausted. Just because IANA doesn't have an official counter somewhere doesn't mean that there's no way to tell. Raul654 (talk) 08:42, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • So why not wait until they do run out and it does make news? Wikipedia is not an alarm for the announcement of impending problems, especially ones we can't date precisely. Cjs2111 (talk) 10:20, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • If you want to count it that way, then the ITN line has to say exactly that: IANA allocated the last available IPv4 blocks. That doesn't mean all IPv4 adresses are gone, just that the IANA doesn't have any blocks left (well, technically they do, but none to allocate). --bender235 (talk) 21:39, 1 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
i think thats a given. It will not be posted before. But its good to be ready for it. -- Ashish-g55 15:00, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The final 5 are automatically distributed, one to each regional agency. Nergaal (talk) 15:31, 1 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
But they are not listed as being distributed yet. So it should happen very soon, but doesn't seem to have happened yet. I don't see why we should rush to report the IANA address exhaustion before it have actually happened. Thue | talk 17:54, 1 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Kosovan parliamentary election, 2010 again

We had a lengthy discussion on this, and we decided to support, but wait for the official results. Now the results are out, so I am re-nominating this entry. Crnorizec (talk) 11:16, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I extended the article's reactions section, and someone has updated the results table, so now it is up to date. Crnorizec (talk) 15:26, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I'd just note, though, that I support this mainly because of the current complaints that there are too many sport items on ITN right now. Parliamentary elections in semi-recognized country, weeks after the actual event, is not a big story. But we need to uphold the procedure. GreyHood Talk 18:50, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
the article is not update before peopel say "yes support and post" can they read ti pelase! since the nomination says official resutls are out the page has NOT BEEN UPDATED,(Lihaas (talk) 22:11, 31 January 2011 (UTC)).[reply]
!?... the article IS updated. The latest results and corresponding source are here, which is in this section of the article, entered by Nightstallion today, which can be checked from the template history ... Crnorizec (talk) 22:31, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
So what's about this? The article looks substantially updated [4]. GreyHood Talk 14:18, 1 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
A well-worded blurb please? --BorgQueen (talk) 15:26, 1 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

John Barry

Film Composer John Barry dies, aged 77. yorkshiresky (talk) 13:18, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I would support it if the article received some work... Those citations need to be fixed. --Tone 15:41, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - Article is in much better shape now with the contentious material either removed or referenced. yorkshiresky (talk) 20:32, 1 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Is it bad to have a media player of the James Bond theme music at the Main Page? –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 20:37, 1 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Nice idea, but note that the most famous James Bond theme was just arranged by Barry and was not actually composed but him. GreyHood Talk 21:08, 1 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I'm going to finish referencing the awards a bit later. I've added quite a few more references (there are now 27) and removed the excess external links. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 20:42, 1 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
There's still no update on his death, though. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 22:52, 1 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Good point, and I don't have time to do anymore. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 22:58, 1 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I've added several more sentences and references, but there is really not so much to say about his death compared to his life. There should be no problem with posting now. GreyHood Talk 23:43, 1 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 23:56, 1 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • Belated oppose - the standard by which we measure notable peoples' deaths on the Main Page is totally arbitrary. I think Michael Jackson and Ted Kennedy et al. set a bad example. We do not have to post the death of every single famous person, unless they are of unparallel importance with due consideration that it was unexpected. Michael Jackson's death certainly meets this criteria, as would have John Lennon's or RFK's when theirs occurred. If Serena Williams died tomorrow, she would fit this criteria. It is arguable whether or not John Kerry would, even if he died from unnatural causes. John Barry is not remotely close in notability - in fact, judging by page views alone, his notability is similar if not less so than that of Charlie Callas. We need to establish some sort of reasonable standard. Colipon+(Talk) 03:13, 2 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • Oppose I considered opposing earlier, but enough people were supporting that I figured it wasn't worth the time. I agree with Colipon that John Barry is not notable enough for ITN. Death on ITN is so strange: super-famous people can garner opposition while lesser figures go through unopposed. And the article update is kind of weak too. Makeemlighter (talk) 16:47, 2 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose as per above. I don't think this meets the death criteria.--Johnsemlak (talk) 02:14, 3 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

January 30

January 30, 2011 (2011-01-30) (Sunday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Business and economy

Disasters

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Science
  • Exotic birds are found to have been driven into Britain's back gardens by the extreme cold, as more than half a million people participate in the largest wildlife survey in the world. (The Observer)

Sport

Chip Ganassi Racing wins Rolex 24

Oppose Apparently, it is only local news with no international significance and very low media coverage outside the United States.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 22:18, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
"No international significance"? The 24 Hours of Daytona is the second most important endurance race in the world, second only to the 24 Hours of Le Mans. A large number of the drivers in the field are from foreign countries (vis-a-vis American); the majority of the cars in the race are BMWs and Porsches. Non-local links about the race: Eurosport, Hertfordshire (England) Mercury, Toronto Star, Sport.co.uk, etc... - The Bushranger One ping only 23:06, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Since you mention 24 Hours of Le Mans, it's the only endurance race which should get posted. We don't have to post every second thing of any topic. So, its international significance could not be measured to another second-rated things. The main reason why I voted oppose is that you note the success achieved in the United States, which pours a flaw on the race.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 23:21, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
My proposed blurb is:
Thus, it will be concentrated only on the race, which keeps the international significance. Mentioning the United States makes it local news.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 23:27, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Ahh, I see your point. That can be in the article. I approve of the revised blurb and have edited accordingly. Thanks! - 23:35, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

Comment Now it's clear, and we need an article about the 2011 race. The link in the blurb still redirects to the update in the page about Chip Ganassi Racing, which was probably edited for the purpose of the previous nomination.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 23:41, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. We already post EIGHT motor racing stories per year, just with the WP:ITNR events. I don't think we should post any more. Modest Genius talk 23:44, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The 24 Hours of Daytona is at least as internationally notable as the World Men's Handball Championship. Also, I'll work on a quick article for this year's race. - The Bushranger One ping only 23:55, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Whether it is more notable or not is a valid topic of discuss slanted on the regions where it is popular.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 23:58, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per Modest Genius, and there are 3 sports items on ITN already. Makeemlighter (talk) 01:20, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Seems that if we add one more, the lowest one sports item will be bumped out of the box anyway, so that's not a problem. Even if we add two more sports items, this likely will not persist for long, since ITN has significantly accelerated today, and there is near consensus on the South Sudan blurb. GreyHood Talk 01:46, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
And now complete. - The Bushranger One ping only 03:39, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Just curious, how is it overrepresented, by type of racing? Sports car racing, stock car racing (the Daytona 500) and open-wheel racing (F1, Indy) are about as different from each other as American football is from soccer, for instance. - The Bushranger One ping only 03:50, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

When was the last time a car race was featured on ITN? --candle•wicke 04:03, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment. LOL is all I can say to this discussion. Oppose because 'motorsport' already has 8 items a year? The Dakar rally is the same as the Monaco Grand Prix which is the same as GP Motorcycle racing? Does this mean we can take down the ludicrous handball entry, as one of the million variants of ball sports that get posted per year? Just wow tbh. MickMacNee (talk) 16:32, 1 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Bandy World Championship 2011

I agree that there's some unnecessary clutter at ITNR but there's no need to add to that problem. Oppose.--Johnsemlak (talk) 19:25, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I'd differentiate between this and the World Handball Championships (which I supported) on the grounds of Olympic status and professionalism (I am open to correction on the professionalism point), so oppose (change to support if evidence that it is fully pro) Kevin McE (talk) 19:47, 30 January 2011 (UTC)]][reply]
Professional and recognised by the IOC: change that to support, and suggest that the minor flood of sports items be combined in a common blurb rather than omit some on grounds of "too many sports items" Kevin McE (talk) 00:16, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
AFAIK, the tournament is professional, but bandy is indeed not an Olympic event, though it will be a demonstration sport during the 2014 Winter Olympics. GreyHood Talk 20:39, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose; Bandy World Championship 2011 is in a pretty dire state and doesn't have so much as a link to what the actual sport (game?) is.  狐 FOX  19:52, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The links for the game and the general tournament articles are provided. If there is more consensus for posting, I'll do more update tomorrow. GreyHood Talk 01:06, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support. I have never heard of this but if it is a "world championship" featuring many countries and is to be added to the Olympics in some form then it is probably significant enough. I agree that the article is in a bad state though and would need to be improved. --candle•wicke 21:31, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support Given the fact that ITN template documents reports of matches in sports which are popular in only few countries, the World Bandy Championship should be posted.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 21:58, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose since this is not a common enough sport. There are federations in very few countries: File:BandyCountries.svg. Nergaal (talk) 03:22, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I see federations on every continent apart from Africa, including such giant land masses as Russia, Kazakhstan, China, India, Australia, Argentina, Canada and the United States. That's eight of the nine largest countries in the world for a start. Either way I wouldn't describe it as "very few". --candle•wicke 03:47, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Wait, I read this argument again and I LOLed. You can't, won't and don't use land mass to denote that there are "many countries" playing this sport. The Federation of International Bandy has 27 members. Compare than to FIFA that has 200+ or even the International Federation of American Football that has 57 members. It only has three member nations west of the Atlantic Ocean! THREE! Yeah, three big nations but probably a minority of Canadians even heard of that there was a world championship for bandy. Don't expect the Americans, most especially the Argentinians to care. The Chinese federation is organized on a winter-sport basis, so technically there is no governing body for bandy in China. And where would you play bandy in India? In Kashmir? –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 20:00, 1 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Bandy is a winter sport, not as popular as Olympic Winter sports but immediately behind them, so don't you find this situation with bandy federations mostly in the Northern hemisphere normal? GreyHood Talk 20:11, 1 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I did not particularly point out that bandy federations (or organizations that sorta promote bandy) are mostly located at the Northern Hemisphere, but even countries such as Mexico and Morocco are IIHF members. If we're into promoting winter sports there are other ones that have a larger following like figure skating. –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 20:21, 1 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
A better metric would be which of those eight nations have bandy as their at least 10th most popular sport. –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 04:53, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support, it's an Olympic-recognised sport so I see no reason to exclude it. The article can always be updated properly, it being in a "dire state" shouldn't itself preclude the nomination from succeeding unless it remains in such a state without it being touched. Strange Passerby (talk • contribs) 03:26, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose, the article is in bad condition and we already have 3 sport items. --Tone 10:23, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Could you change your mind when more non-sport nominations are added to the template and the bandy article is improved? GreyHood Talk 18:40, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Strong support oppose Hundreds of thousands viewed the article during the tournament's run. –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 17:43, 1 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Which brings us to the crux of the whole point of ITN. Do we take the point of view that few people viewed the article, so a large number could have it drawn to their attention by ITN posting, or do we say that an article that has had enormous amounts of traffic already, and which deals with a subject that any of our readers already knows about and could easily find for themselves, gets that extra, unneeded, publicity? Kevin McE (talk) 19:10, 1 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
You know, I'd like say something about your question (and it's a good one, I also raised a sorta similar question at WT:ITN), and while most people really don't like using the view stats as a tool to judge potential ITN items, but those view stats are pretty really depressing for a world championship that has a potential to stay in Wikipedia's main page for a week, I'd have to find a really damning evidence that this is significant enough before I answer that. Come on, are you seriously willing to put an "In the News" item that had less than 600 view stats/day? We routinely reject items that had view counts of as much as 10,000, but like I said view stats isn't everything, unless perhaps it's less than 600/day. –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 19:39, 1 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The stats literally mean fuck all.  狐 FOX  19:43, 1 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, I'd probably submit to that, if there's at least hurling-level view stats. –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 19:45, 1 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oh my God, stop comparing everything to hurling.  狐 FOX  19:50, 1 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I can't think of a sport with a limited enough appeal. How about American football? Oh. –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 20:04, 1 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I wish I were that funny. Really, I do.  狐 FOX  20:09, 1 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oh God, not everything is a joke about how nobody cares about hurling. –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 20:11, 1 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The stats for the recently featured Kosovan election. I think this is the answer for your question. Also, if you do the stats check for quite a number of items featured in the recent months, you'll find as unimpressive statistics as this, or not very much bigger than in the bandy case. GreyHood Talk 19:54, 1 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Elections for all states, and most unrecognized ones do get in no matter what and no matter how small as long as its updated so we really can't compare bandy and elections as well as bandy and hurling. –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 20:04, 1 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
OMG, whatever the case with bandy, hurling is a joke... %) GreyHood Talk 20:11, 1 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I think we have moved from WP:ITN/C to WT:ITN here really, but I really like ITN as it stands right now: the top 5 stories (Jordanian re-shuffle, Kosovan election, record borehole, low profile sport at World champ level, Sudan referendum results) all all issues where Wiki can really inform the reader about issues that are current, but under-reported in mass media news in its 3-minute bulletins. This is what ITN can do well. When it merely summarises what we hear "on the top of the hour, every hour" (do DJs still say that?), and can only link to a brief summary of the output of those news services, it is of little useful purpose to anyone. Kevin McE (talk) 21:12, 1 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I would have expected Kosovo's election to be higher than that... -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 21:02, 1 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

South Sudan referendum

The first official results came out today, with over 99% in favour [5]. This is the second of the three ITN items earlier discussion gained consensus for (start of vote, official results, date of independence). Blurb suggestion below, article will need updating.

Modest Genius talk 13:18, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

There's only one sentence update at the moment in the corresponding section... this needs to be improved, then I don't see any concerns. --Tone 14:06, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
It should be noted that this is only the first official results coming out. The BBC says "Final results ... are expected early next month." - Dumelow (talk) 14:16, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support I think we can post this now, 99% in favour is pretty strong. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 14:22, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I would like to point out that the current official figure is 99.57%, which actually rounds up to 100% (or we just go with 99.57%, but 99% is wrong). sephia karta | dimmi 14:32, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hence why my blurb suggestion says 'more than 99%'. Modest Genius talk 21:20, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
STRONG wait the article is NOT updated with official results yet. when they are then obvious support(Lihaas (talk) 14:48, 30 January 2011 (UTC)).[reply]
Support posting now iff the announced the partial official result has more than 2/3 of the votes cast. Considering the figures if that line is crossed (99% for secession w/ 67% reporting) there's no more turning back –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 16:40, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support no doubt of the result, evn if figures will maybe be slighlty ajusted in coming weeks. 86.200.84.129 (talk) 18:09, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment There have been unusually many news posted in the last 24 hours, and two more items are coming... Maybe we could delay posting this one until tomorrow, so that earlier items wouldn't be bumped out too quickly? Or perhaps, we could bump out the Egyptian blurb which has been there for the longest time? GreyHood Talk 18:27, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Support'. Official result, end of story. Who care if it clashes with other dubious items? This at least is a no brainer candidate. MickMacNee (talk) 19:47, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support pending results. Likely the creation of a new North African country and large implications.
Support A vote that has resulted in starting the process of creating a new nation. IT's a no brainer. We've posted the handball world championship and not this?!--Johnsemlak (talk) 00:50, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose since when have we read preliminary results as official results? Furthermore, since when have we posted preliminary results? Official results are due to be released on 14 February and nothing should be posted until then and after that, nothing until the Republic of South Sudan is created on 9 July. Calm down... Therequiembellishere (talk) 00:55, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
These are official but partial results. The BBC article did not state how much of the votes were included. –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 02:59, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
99% according to preliminary results is fairly decisive, and there's an overwhelming likelihood that the result has been determined. If the official results due to be released in two weeks show a different result, that will be newsworthy in and of itself.--Johnsemlak (talk) 01:21, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Even so, we have never posed preliminary results even when we've known what would happen months in advance. It's not a bad thing to just keep consistent with the precedent and wait two weeks and nothing bad will happen if we do. Therequiembellishere (talk) 01:57, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support Yes! Of course! 99%? Oh my god! Diego Grez (talk) 02:03, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose and wait. Preliminary reports don't mean crap until all of the votes are tallied. This is a very serious issue and we would look like idiots if we were to post an preliminary tally. Sure, 2/3rd of it might be counted, but a result of 67% is much less shocking than a result of 99%. But if consensus decides to post, please watch how the blurb is formulated. EricLeb01 (Page | Talk) 04:03, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support. I thought I had posted my support already, but I suppose given the official results I will support again. ~AH1(TCU) 16:33, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Which I did. ~AH1(TCU) 16:37, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

We need to be careful in how we phrase this blurb, so I'm opening this up to suggestions. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 17:30, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

What's wrong with the one I suggested at the top? Can modify if necessary, but I'd need to know what has to be changed! Modest Genius talk 17:37, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Well if these are partial results, we should indicate that, because 99% of 51% of the votes is not as impressive as 99% of 99% of the votes. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 17:49, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Hence why we are suggesting to wait the extra week or two. MG's blurb would be perfect if all the votes would be tallied, but now we are stuck with "Preliminary results from the South Sudanese referendum show that 99% wish to separate from Sudan." EricLeb01 (Page | Talk) 18:26, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Hmm. I was looking at the words 'first complete results' in the BBC article. The referendum commission website doesn't actually give the results, just a story saying that they're being announced on 30 Jan. Their 'timeline' suggests that the preliminary results will be declared final if no-one files an appeal against them. But waiting for the formal appeal process seems pointless here. Modest Genius talk 20:17, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Aha! found the results. http://southernsudan2011.com/ says 'As of now, 100% of the North and OCV votes and 100% of the South votes have been processed. (Last updated 2011-01-30 07:05:40) ' and gives 98.8% in favour. Modest Genius talk 20:18, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Sudan is preliminary results, final results are not out for a few weeks. weve already set this prcedence.(Lihaas (talk) 22:47, 31 January 2011 (UTC)).[reply]
Read MG's new comment. Vote counting is over anyways. EricLeb01 (Page | Talk) 00:02, 1 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

2011 Saxony-Anhalt train accident

At least ten people are killed and many others are injured as two trains collide in Saxony-Anhalt, Germany. (BBC, AFP). wackywace 07:48, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. The death toll isn't that high and it's small news compared to the stuff going on elsewhere.--Johnsemlak (talk) 10:42, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per Johnsemlak. GreyHood Talk 10:56, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Neutral we usually post train crashes of this size and I think its probably worthy of posting, but there is other more important stuff being discussed and there is a strong case that we post too much violent stuff. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 14:11, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I agree, we already have too many disasters... Would support on a slow news day but I've just posted two new items and by the end of the day there will be two more so it's not such a day. --Tone 15:44, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Not even on a slow news day. Just more EVENT failing newscruft tbh, written today, abandoned tomorrow, but impossible to ever delete. MickMacNee (talk) 19:50, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Funeral of David Kato / LGBT rights in Uganda

His death was previously opposed, with some suggesting they would reconsider if anything more occurred. Well... "Scuffles at funeral of Uganda gay activist" - Reuters, "Ugandan gay activist David Kato's funeral marred by angry scenes: Presiding pastor called on homosexuals to repent or be 'punished by God' at the murdered activist's service" - The Guardian, "Chaos erupts at funeral of Ugandan gay rights activist" - CNN, "Uproar at gay activist's funeral" - The Sydney Morning Herald Plus there is a UK deportation case which is receiving some interest abroad now as well. "Ugandan faces deportation after judge rules she's not a lesbian: 'I will be killed,' refugee claimant says, citing the murder of gay rights advocate" - Montreal Gazette, "Judge in Britain Halts Deportation of Ugandan" - The New York Times, "Gay Ugandan woman wins temporary reprieve" - Kenya Broadcasting Corporation. The Uganda Anti-Homosexuality Bill also received a lot of attention at the time. --candle•wicke 05:21, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose no international recognition and no English wiki readers from Uganda. Nergaal (talk) 06:51, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
WTF? See Languages of Uganda. MickMacNee (talk) 10:52, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
How many of those read THIS wikipedia? Nergaal (talk) 20:07, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
93.6% of Wikipedia traffic from those Ugandans who have Internet access read the English Wikipedia. Total traffic from Uganda was 0.01%. –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 05:26, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: seriously, Nergaal? English is an official and widely-spoken language of Uganda (see Ugandan English) and even if it weren't I can imagine many Ugandans using the English Wikipedia as it is far more comprehensive than in any other Ugandan language. But that doesn't even matter because as Candlewicke has shown there has been widespread coverage and discussion across the Anglosphere (I count four continents of sources above). 86.6.193.43 (talk) 13:13, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support given the international coverage. This seems worthy of posting. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 16:31, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - a murder like any other. All murders could appear here since, myself like roughly everyone, oppose them, and this one is no different. He isn't a former head of state, or someone else who has made a name for himself, but is only known for this. And even under this criteria, I doubt weather the murder of a celebrity (ie. Britney Spears, who does have a name) would appear here. 86.200.84.129 (talk) 18:04, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. His death was not in any way related to his activism, so it wasn't posted. Why would we post a funeral when the death itself wasn't posted? HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 22:14, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Well, per the sources above, i.e. that it has led to "controversial" events which have been "in the news". --candle•wicke 00:27, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support. If nobody can agree to reduce the number of sport items to stop embarrassing situations like ITN right now, we're going to have to increase the non-sport ones. This is a murder under suspicious circumstances of a significant figure in a recent major human rights controversy with some frankly unbelievable events at his funeral, with significant worldwide media coverage. (BTW, using Nergaal's reasoning, we would have to remove the Egypt protests item, since Egyptians would be assumed to mostly use Arabic Wikipedia.) Suggested wording: - BanyanTree 10:49, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Human rights groups call for an investigation into the murder of Ugandan gay rights activist David Kato.
Oppose still not notable enough. When the WBC pickets funerals, that ends up in newspapers, but we don't put that on itn. --PlasmaTwa2 15:24, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose neither some idiot pastor's comments nor the fact that the deceased was an "activist" make this notable on a sufficient scale. μηδείς (talk) 15:29, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

World Economic Forum concludes, Rosneft-BP and Rosneft-ExxonMobil deals

The 2011 World Economic Forum concludes in Davos; main events include the announcement of joint development of the Black Sea shelf by Rosneft and ExxonMobil, and that of the Arctic shelf by Rosneft and BP. GreyHood Talk 01:09, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I think there is a good reason to concatenate these two nominations proposed below. Both of them have gained more support than oppose, and the World Economic Forum seems to have gained consensus. In the discussion about the Forum editors have demanded something important coming out of the event, and the Rosneft-BP and Rosneft-ExxonMobil deals are some of the implications. GreyHood Talk 01:09, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I think there was consensus for posting the WEF conclusion, but the rest of this just looks like an attempt to shoehorn an item that doesn't have a consensus into a blurb where it doesn't really fit (and would take up about half the room on the template). HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 01:16, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Well, I wouldn't try this, but there were requests for some implications from the Forum. If more fitting blurb incorporating the two items is proposed, that will be good. Otherwise, I don't insist on such a concatenation, of course. GreyHood Talk 01:25, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe this one is better:
At least it's shorter, but wasn't the BP/Exxon/Rosneft deal announced days ago? HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 01:56, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Days ago there was a swap of assets between BP and Rosneft. Exxon-Rosneft deal has been signed at the midst of the Forum, with a simultaneous announcement of the BP-Rosneft cooperation in the Arctic. GreyHood Talk 02:09, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Ready to post?. The World Economic Forum is updated (mostly the World Economic Forum#Deals section) and Rosneft is updated too. The Rosneft-BP-Exxon deals nomination seems to get even more support. I think this could be inserted between Zine El Abidine Ben Ali arrest warrant and A Sacra Conversazione. If a plain WEF conclusion blurb is chosen (The 2011 World Economic Forum concludes in Davos, Switzerland), it should go at the top of the template. GreyHood Talk 11:43, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Posted. --Tone 15:45, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

2011 World Men's Handball Championship

Support I think handball deserves a place on ITNR. It is much more popular sport than hurling or netball that got there somehow. GreyHood Talk 10:55, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Why not? Professional sport, large following in much of Europe, 5 continents represented at the tournament. Support Kevin McE (talk) 15:39, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. There's nothing about the handball world championship that could not also be said about darts, and that got binned last year out of nothing more intellectual than 'I've never heard of this sport'. If netball really is on ITN/R, that only makes that decision even more of a joke. MickMacNee (talk) 15:50, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
"If you haven't heard about the sport", it doesn't mean it is less popular than the other sports listed in ITN/R, which are popular only in few countries. In comparison, handball is an Olympic sport, the world championship features national teams from all continents, and it has high media coverage and receives attention mostly in Europe, Africa and Asia.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 16:42, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Did I say I had never heard of handball? No I didn't. Please read what I actually said, and respond to it, not what you think I said. Darts has a huge following, it has huge media coverage, and it has participation from countries around the world, even Amercians have managed to figure out how to play it. Yet does it get on ITN? No it does not. Being an Olympic sport is totally and utterly irrelevant for ITN, nobody cares about a hell of a lot of Olympic sports, and they would certainly never get posted on ITN just for that. MickMacNee (talk) 19:40, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Please look at the quotation marks, and my post scriptum bellow, where you seem to have my respond why you got that stupid argument. Unfortunately, the discussion dropped my comment out of the first one.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 21:27, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Dunno about Africa but certainly not Asia. It's not on the Japanese Asahi Shinbun sports English page. –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 16:52, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Not on Xinhua sports English page either. –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 17:04, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
My notion is about the sport, not about the championship, which indeed is broadcasted in Asia, although with low traction after the Asian national teams were eliminated. However, it is more popular worldwide than other American sports which regularly get posted.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 17:47, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Seriously the only American sport that no one cares about outside the U.S. is the NFL. Korea and Japan are baseball-mad countries. Ichiro Suzuki must've been a national hero over there. Li Na can't even compare to Yao Ming in China, considering Yao hasn't played in ages. –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 17:56, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I have nothing against posting the Super Bowl next Sunday, though in my opinion it's only significant for the people of the United States. So, please express a more neutral view of handball as a sport, which unfortunately is not popular among most of the Americas.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 18:02, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not even bringing the Americas or the Super Bowl into the question here. I'm challenging the statement that it "receives attention mostly in Europe, Africa and Asia." –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 18:05, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
As for the Super Bowl as long as there's no team called as the "Ducks" I don't particularly care, I'd probably mock how the discussion will go, though.
If you really think that handball is not so popular in Asia, please look at the success of the South Korea national handball team at the Olympics, and the World championships. Thus, if it doesn't receive attention, it wouldn't be played there and surely won't produce winning teams.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 18:11, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Korea Times's English sports page doesn't mention this world championship. –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 18:21, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Don't know about the rest of Asia but Handball ain't big in South Korea. I'm sure that there's interest in the Olympic team if it does well as the Koreans are very focused on any medal they win but as a team sport it doesn't get much traction--the main sports are Football, baseball, basketball, and volleyball.--Johnsemlak (talk) 18:26, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Just to show how Euro-centric this "world" championship is, let's see how the other knockout stages for world championships for team sports went:
P.S. Probably you missed the WP:NNEWS, but it's not a reason to use the same comment to oppose this.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 16:48, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support Handball has a following across most of the world...not so much in the United States, but still enough that it's played in PE classes. If some sports with only regional following are ITN worthy, then handball certainly is. Ks0stm (T•C•G) 17:11, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support definite support for this. Not only american sports should be placed on ITN.--BabbaQ (talk) 17:16, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
LOL! –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 02:32, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Only American sports get on ITN? What utter nonsense. MickMacNee (talk) 19:40, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support per Kiril Simeonovski, Kevin McE and Ks0stm since it is not represented on ITN elsewhere. --candle•wicke 17:19, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The 2011 World Men's Handball Championship concludes with France defeating Denmark to retain the title.

This is my proposed blurb.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 17:57, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
It's fine but the article needs some more work, at least changing the future tense in the intro to past...--Tone 18:10, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
IMO the article should be updated substantially further. The only prose is in the lede section. There's no summary of the final or the later rounds.--Johnsemlak (talk) 18:21, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Also, there's only two references in the entire article. And frankly speaking, what little prose there is in this article is really non-notable stuff. Oppose.--

Johnsemlak (talk) 20:10, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I've expanded the section about the final, and now it's ready for posting.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 20:30, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I hate to be a nag but it's still not ready for posting--not enough references, and none in the updated section.--Johnsemlak (talk) 20:38, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
More referenced added. Now, the whole prose is referenced.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 20:42, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support once the text is updated. Nergaal (talk) 20:08, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I've expanded the article a little bit with a summary about the final match and more references. Looks like the consensus has been done here, and the article should be posted. My proposal for a new blurb, including a link to the final is:

The 2011 World Men's Handball Championship concludes with France defeating Denmark to retain the title.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 21:18, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Great, that's how the update should look like. Posting. --Tone 22:28, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Rashid Al-Ghannushi returns to Tunisia

Neutral on this. Maybe Al-Ghannushi is really important person for Tunisia, but his return seems to be a development of much lesser scale compared to other recent events in Tunisia (or in Egypt). There would have been some sense in requesting an update of the current Tunisian blurb with this new story, but seems that blurb will be soon bumped out. GreyHood Talk 22:30, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

January 29

January 29, 2011 (2011-01-29) (Saturday)
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2011 AFC Asian Cup Final

It's Australia vs. Japan. –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 14:14, 29 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It's an ITNR event so it should be posted if it gets updated but I'll note, for whatever it's worth, that the attendances of this tournament have been fairly poor. I guess Asia's a large continent and many countries' fans can't travel to it that easily.--Johnsemlak (talk) 15:19, 29 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support as ITNR. At least 3-5 sentence update will be needed. GreyHood Talk 17:26, 29 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
STRONGEST POSSIBLE SUPPORT WOO HOOO!! THE WORLD GREATEST SOCCER TOURNAMENT STILL IS (read asain). as if poland/ukraine is better than qatar!? Lihaas (talk) 18:15, 29 January 2011 (UTC).[reply]
Support A continental football championship is always a significant topic. Excuse me Lihaas, but this is not place for such sighs.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 19:59, 29 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The article isn't up to scratch and the tournament article isn't good either. I'll have a crack at the Final article but can't guarantee anything. --Mkativerata (talk) 20:03, 29 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I think the article is in decent shape, since the content is sufficient for a final match. However, we should post the conclusion of the championship and instead the article about the final, we may post the article about the championship as a key one.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 20:19, 29 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Articles need prose not tables and stats (although if you're looking at the final article now, it's got a fair bit more prose than it did 10 minutes ago). --Mkativerata (talk) 20:27, 29 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The article about the Euro 2008 Final is still worse than this one, but got posted when the championship ended. I don't think we need a criterion to maintain such article as others.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 21:00, 29 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
In 2008 ITN had different criteria. Support iff the article gets some significant amount of text. Nergaal (talk) 21:11, 29 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
ITN did have a "different" criteria now but it had one constant criterion: a sufficiently expanded update. This one has it. –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 03:46, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The main report is that the championship concludes, so the article about the championship is the most important. The final match decides only the winner, and thus I don't think that a bad article should prevent it of posting.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 21:29, 29 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Ready to post? Currently the article has more text than some of the sports events posted in the recent months. Mkativerata has done some good job expanding the prose. GreyHood Talk 21:26, 29 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I think so. The article is in pretty good shape.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 21:29, 29 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Posted. The finals article actually has some prose related to the match so I highlighted that one. Feel free to modify. --Tone 22:00, 29 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

2011 Australian Open

In tennis, Kim Clijsters and Novak Djokovic win 2011 Australian Open. EugεnS¡m¡on(14) ® 10:50, 29 January 2011 (UTC)→[reply]

Support A recurring item, and as usually we should post the women's winner first, and after the men's final ends to update the blurb.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 11:29, 29 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support per Kiril. GreyHood Talk 17:27, 29 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support only after the men's final. Nergaal (talk) 21:12, 29 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

information Administrator note I'm not seeing any prose on the winner... HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 01:02, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Support It's time. --Kitch (Talk : Contrib) 11:21, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Posting.--Tone 15:37, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Haitian cholera reaches Venezuela

Haitian cholera outbreak reaches the American continent, as at least 111 Venezuelans contract cholera brought from Haiti's neighbour, the Dominican Republic. BBC CBC

Yes. The Dominican Republic. --candle•wicke 05:00, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support upon expansion. ~AH1(TCU) 00:07, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It's probably not a big job, but we need a paragraph or two of prose on the Venezuelan outbreak before this has any hope of being posted. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 01:04, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved

Expanded. --candle•wicke 05:00, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Support as nominator. Seems ready to post. GreyHood Talk 12:05, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Omar Suleiman appointed Egyptian vice president

Omar Suleiman has been appointed vice president of Egypt by Hosni Mubarak, the first time he has named a VP during his rule. (Guardian) --bender235 (talk) 16:01, 29 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Also, Ahmed Shafik has been sworn in as Egyptian prime minister. (Al-Jazeera reporting) --bender235 (talk) 16:05, 29 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose, not a change in head of state. We usually only post changes in head of state (or head of government where the head of state is also head of government or where the head of state only has a ceremonial role). I see no need to bump the Egypt blurb with this at this time. Strange Passerby (talk • contribs) 16:13, 29 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
If a dictator names a vice president for the first time in 30 years, that is notable. If not, what is? --bender235 (talk) 16:17, 29 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I never said it wasn't notable. Just that it doesn't exactly meet WP:ITNR#Elections & Heads of State. Strange Passerby (talk • contribs) 16:32, 29 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Not meeting the criteria on ITNR shouldn't exclude any nomination from being posted, and certainly not this one.--Johnsemlak (talk) 16:56, 29 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Perhaps this is one reason to ignore ITNR. There hasn't been one for decades and Egypt is receiving a large amount of attention worldwide. There is also a new prime minister and more than 100 deaths. It wouldn't necessarily mean every vice president would be posted in future (unless accompanied by unusual events on this scale). --candle•wicke 17:01, 29 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
It wouldn't be WP:IAR at all. There's no criteria that excludes this event.--Johnsemlak (talk) 17:31, 29 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support per Candlewicke, updating the current Egyptian blurb. The situation is far from being an ordinary vice president or prime minister appointment. GreyHood Talk 17:29, 29 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support Since both a Vice President and a new PM have been appointed, I believe this change in the political makeup is notable enough for ITN. Suggested blurb: As anti-government protests continue in Egypt, President Hosni Mubarak appoints Omar Suleiman Vice President, and Ahmed Shafiq Prime Minister. Franklinville (talk) 17:43, 29 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Strong Oppose - after the fact. It is pointless to announce desperate moves of an outgoing dictator as news. Much more important news from Egypt today is the shutting down of Internet access and SMS services, and the house arrest of El-Baradei. Crnorizec (talk) 23:17, 29 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I wonder about both, actually, but we don't go back in time, unfortunately. In this case, a president facing popular riots and requests for withdrawal, appoints his top spy of many years as his vice-president. What's new there, except that the US don't have anything better in their sleeve, so they are desperate enough to support even that??? Crnorizec (talk) 11:02, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
It's pretty non-negotiable to exclude the replacement of a prime minister, no matter how scrupulous the circumstances are. –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.)

January 28

January 28, 2011 (2011-01-28) (Friday)
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Madonna and Child

Madonna and Child by Titian is sold in New York for $16.9 million.BBC

Thus it becomes the record sold Titian's work.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 22:11, 28 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The name of the work is A Sacra Conversazione, is it not? He's depicted Madonna many times. Nightw 23:30, 28 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
No, sacra conversazione is the Italian term for sacred conversation.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 00:20, 29 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Ground-breaking observation... Nightw 05:22, 29 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The full name of the painting is A Sacra Conversazione: The Madonna and Child with Saints Luke and Catherine of Alexandria.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 00:30, 29 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support but not happy with the hook and secondary link - the fact that it's a record for Titan is key. Suggest -

Titian's Madonna and Child achieves the highest auction price ever for one of his works, at $16.9 million. Pedro :  Chat  23:37, 28 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Madonna and Child is a different painting. It's in the Kunsthistorisches Museum in Vienna. This is just the name of the motif applied in the painting. Titian painted it many times: Madonna and Child with the Young Saint John the Baptist and Saint Catherine, Virgin And Child, Madonna and Child with Saint Catherine and a Rabbit... The name of the work is A Sacra Conversazione... Nightw 05:22, 29 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support as it is a new record and a rare topic to feature on ITN. --candle•wicke 00:15, 29 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I can't find anything about this work in Titian's article and the title itself is a redirect. We need an update somewhere before it can be posted; I don't particularly care where. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 03:28, 29 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I updated the Titian article. Crnorizec (talk) 04:49, 29 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support as shown on the In the News talk page culture is under-represented on ITN. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 23:28, 29 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comment of note the correct Titian link is to: Titian#Present_day. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 23:34, 29 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Important painting and special event. ~AH1(TCU) 00:09, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The update is basically one sentence long. I can't post that, much as I would like to. Anybody fancy creating an article for the painting? You could easily get at least a decent start and the attention it receives on the MP will likely attract improvement. It would also mean I can bold the painting, which is, of course, the emphasis of the blurb. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 02:11, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
It is not one sentence, I also inserted a paragraph about the painting in the chronological listing of his works, in the article.

Egypt update - new government announced

mubarak just went on and on and basically announced a new govt to be announced tomorrow.(Lihaas (talk) 21:44, 28 January 2011 (UTC)).[reply]

Egyptian government shuts off internet and SMS networks

  • After the Egyptian government censored social media websites such as Twitter, Facebook, Google, on Friday internet access and SMS networks were cut off in response to the protests. [6] [7]
  • Support - I feel it is incredibly important and of extreme urgency the fact that a country's government has not only censored websites which aid people in expressing their dissatisfaction with the government (by sharing ideas or by arranging assemblies to express such dissatisfaction/dissent), but went a step further and switched off (almost) the entire internet (only one ISP working, Noor, the other four major ones are not, including Vodafone) and SMS networks to strip people of their ability to communicate efficiently so as to suppress the protests which are currently taking place in Egypt. I feel this is also very important as US media have failed to cover the Egyptian protests to the extent that European media have, and also it is very relevant to the new bill that is being passed in the US, giving the US president unprecedented power over control of the internet infrastructure in the US. Instead, what is currently the top news item on the front page is an article about a monkey's genome being sequenced. Interesting, but is it really more important than suppression of freedom of speech and assembly by a whole government? ¬ jujimufu (talk) 13:16, 28 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Merge with the fact that massive protests are taking place again today and bump the blurb from a couple of days. The article has a decent section on the development though it may be worth waiting for some more information. Or not. Actually I am willing to post when I see some more support. --Tone 14:56, 28 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support as it is such a strange response to events there and agree with Tone. --candle•wicke 15:21, 28 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, what about the blurb? --Tone 15:40, 28 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Suggest: Thousands of Egyptians intensify anti-government street protests inspired by the recent Tunisian uprising, as the Egyptian government cuts off internet access and SMS networks nationwide. --candle•wicke 15:49, 28 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I think we can omit the Tunisian part. The blurb gets too long... --BorgQueen (talk) 15:58, 28 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
It seems the police are forcing Al Jazeera off the air as well... --candle•wicke 15:51, 28 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The suggested blurb seems a bit wordy. Let's have something more concise, along the lines of: Anti-government street protests across Egypt intensify, as the Egyptian government suspends internet access and SMS networks nationwide. --Dorsal Axe 16:00, 28 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, posting. And skipping Tunisia, this is a very much a story on its own now. --Tone 16:01, 28 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict)Support, today's protests are really big news. Modest Genius talk 16:02, 28 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict) OK. That's better. There's a curfew now but there are still people on the streets... --candle•wicke 16:03, 28 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

A picture of the NDP HQ on fire would be useful too if there is one anywhere. --candle•wicke 20:51, 28 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

January 27

January 27, 2011 (2011-01-27) (Thursday)
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David Kato

Oppose. Not sufficiently notable, and over half of the content of his article is about the murder. Modest Genius talk 01:05, 28 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. If he was killed for being a gay rights activist, I might well have supported, but it doesn't look like he was killed for being him, rather because he was in the wrong place at the wrong time. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 01:10, 28 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose his death itself is not notable enough and his life as an activist isn't notable enough either. --PlasmaTwa2 01:41, 28 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

2011 Yemeni protests

Rosneft cooperation with BP and ExxonMobil

Russia's oil giant Rosneft announces a joint development of the Black Sea shelf with ExxonMobil and the Arctic shelf with BP. RIAN BBC

  • A week ago we have overlooked the Rosneft-BP swap deal, one of the largest deals in the oil industry in the recent years, having especial importance after the Deepwater Horizon spill of BP and sparking much discussion among the American media and politicians. This is a continuation of the topic, accompanied by another large development, a cooperation with ExxonMobil. Note that so far the Black Sea shelf and the Arctic shelf have no active offshore oil industry, so these decisions are historic. GreyHood Talk 15:27, 27 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
NO this is business as usual. At least there are no pelicans in the Arctic. Nergaal (talk) 17:19, 27 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
There are polar bears, pinnipeds and walruses. And I believe we may say "this is business as usual" about all news currently in the ITN box, as well as about 99% of news we ever had or would have. Geneticists sequence new genomes. Diplomats conclude and prolongate treaties. Instability plagues the third world countries. Terrorists blow up more bombs. Political parties are engaged in political struggle. Booooring, usual businessss... GreyHood Talk 17:38, 27 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Seriously speaking this is not usual business of course. Starting an offshore oil extraction in a new sea and in a new ocean, with huge ecological implications possible, involving a company that is responsible for recent and the very largest sea oil spill disaster in history - this is not usual. GreyHood Talk 17:38, 27 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Conditional support given that we can choose a specific article to bold in the blurb. ~AH1(TCU) 18:30, 27 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Rosneft owns a larger share in Rosneft-BP joint venture, I believe, and the situation with Rosneft-ExxonMobil would likely be similar. So I think Rosneft should be bold in the blurb. GreyHood Talk 19:34, 27 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support if this is truly the first plan to commence offshore drilling in both those areas. Things seem to be getting a little desperate for the oil business. And whatever happened to simple "oppose"s? EricLeb01 (Page | Talk) 18:48, 27 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
There are different planned projects, but BP and ExxonMobil are the largest and most technologically advanced Western companies to be given access to those areas. At least for the Arctic, this is the first plan to commence the truly large-scale offshore oil extraction in these waters, involving very large and rich oil fields, similar to Sakhalin-I and Sakhalin-II projects (the second is the largest integrated offshore project in the world). Reconnaissance drilling is well underway in the Arctic by Russia and in the Black Sea by Turkey-Brazil. GreyHood Talk 19:34, 27 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support It's a deal between three of the largest companies in the world, which is obviously significant.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 21:27, 27 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. This seems to be an exploration contract, not the start of drilling. The sums involved don't see that massive. I would support the first drilling in those seas, but for now they're just working out where they might put the rigs. Modest Genius talk 01:13, 28 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose, uninteresting non-news. Abductive (reasoning) 15:00, 29 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support this is a pretty big business story. And we don't post enough of them. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 00:28, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
And yes, support as nominator. GreyHood Talk 00:45, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support. These are major deals for the companies involved, and massively important for the development of Russia's hydrocarbons industry and its economy as a whole. Nanobear (talk) 03:59, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

UK economy sufferes a shock 0.5% contraction because of snow

An unexpected 0.5% contraction of the U.K. economy in the last quarter of 2010 is announced, explained by the severe winter. BBC

Oppose. It's not really surprising that weather that bad (by British standards) would have an adverse effect on the country's economy. Besides, it's of little significance outside the UK and not really of much day-to-day significance within it. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 17:42, 27 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
British budget cuts (Spending Review and Strategic Defence and Security Review) were posted, nevertheless. GreyHood Talk 18:18, 27 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Because it was of great significance inside the country. Here it isn't. (Well, at least not as much as the reviews you cite that we posted.) EricLeb01 (Page | Talk) 18:45, 27 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose (as a Brit). A single bad data point does not make a crisis. And frankly, anyone who was shocked by this obviously missed the massive arguments about whether Osborne was going to cause a double-dip recession (it seems he has). Modest Genius talk 01:15, 28 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

27 January 2011 Baghdad bombing

27 January 2011 Baghdad bombing - article required. - EugεnS¡m¡on(14) ® 14:00, 27 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Perhaps this one also may replace the current related blurb. GreyHood Talk 14:35, 27 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
NO bombs in Baghdad? Who would have thought? Nergaal (talk) 17:16, 27 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support when article is expanded. Whether or not a region sees many car bombs, 100 people is very significant. EricLeb01 (Page | Talk) 18:43, 27 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. This is the third in a week. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 18:58, 27 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Reportedly the death toll has risen to 48.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 21:49, 27 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Iraq is a war zone, so incidents like this are, while appalling, not major news by themselves. Nick-D (talk) 02:35, 29 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. The arguments against posting are fine, since it is indeed a usual business in Iraq, but nevertheless it looks abnormal when we have a standing Iraq blurb with less victims in the box, and at the same time ignore the case with more victims. What's the problem with a simple update of the existing blurb? GreyHood Talk 18:02, 29 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Interpol arrest warrant for Zine El Abidine Ben Ali

Support - this is a ITN worthy news in my opinion. An historic event and its effects.--BabbaQ (talk) 13:13, 27 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. Btw, we featured when a head of state was slapped with an ICC arrest warrant in 2009. --BorgQueen (talk) 13:17, 27 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Well, al-Bashir was in office at the time so I think that's a bit different, but Ben Ali was only just ousted a few weeks ago and I still think this is notable enough. Nightw 13:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support, per above. Nightw 13:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Weak support replacing the Egyptian blurb with this, as it may be regarded as development of the same topic. If there was a real arrest, not just a warrant, I'd full support. GreyHood Talk 13:48, 27 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
What is transpiring in Egypt is an entirely separate set of events, challenging the Mubarak administration. It has nothing to do with Ben Ali. Nightw 14:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
OK, I withdraw my proposal, seems it won't do. GreyHood Talk 14:41, 27 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support as Interpol doesn't issue such warrants to heads of state or recently ousted heads of state every day. I disagree with the idea of replacing the Egyptian blurb. They concern different countries, and Egypt is still happening and is a big enough and unusual enough event on its own as indicated by 2011 Egyptian protests. --candle•wicke 14:27, 27 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support usually Interpol arrest warrants aren't terribly notable, but I'd definitely say the fact that a place is seeking the arrest of an exiled head of state is very notable indeed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dorsal Axe (talk • contribs) 15:10, 27 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Wait? until the Saudis say something or extradite him. Nergaal (talk) 17:22, 27 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support, but I would rather have his arrest featured. And unless there are political steps to take before actually apprehending him, we should probably wait until it happens. EricLeb01 (Page | Talk) 18:41, 27 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Ready to post? The article is updated and there seems to be consensus, though the actual arrest would be better of course. GreyHood Talk 17:35, 29 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 18:09, 29 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The most distant galaxy is detected

The lonely oldest and most distant galaxy is detected at 13.2 billion light-years from Earth, hinting that the early Universe was emptier than previously thought. Nature GreyHood Talk 01:47, 27 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Conditional support given an article, removal of the word "lonely" from blurb and more objective phrasing of the information and its implications. ~AH1(TCU) 01:52, 27 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose for now. I'll have to read the paper in detail tomorrow, but the abstract of the actual paper contains the worrying statement that 'we find one possible z ≈ 10 galaxy candidate'. Unless they've actually measured a spectroscopic redshift, this is nothing more than a candidate and we should wait for the actual measurement. Also, it took 11 months for them to get the paper accepted by the referees, which for such a high profile field is a big warning light. Modest Genius talk 01:57, 27 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The orangutan genome sequenced

The orangutan becomes the third species of hominids to have their genome sequenced, following humans and chimpanzees. Nature GreyHood Talk 01:47, 27 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Support. Seems to be a major scientific event. ~AH1(TCU) 01:50, 27 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support: a great achievement for conservation. Nightw 03:47, 27 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support considering we know so little about orangutans compared to other living primates this is a surprising The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 03:51, 27 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comments: The article needs to be updated a bit more. --BorgQueen (talk) 07:45, 27 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The article updated. Ready to post. Some orangutan portrait may be used as a nice decoration. GreyHood Talk 15:03, 27 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 15:43, 27 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Blurb makes no sense: there is no species called orangutan. There is a genus of that name, containing two species: Bornean Orangutan (Pongo pygmaeus) and Sumatran Orangutan (Pongo abelii). The article cited at the article for the genus (the one linked in the blurb) names the individual sequenced, but not its species! Kevin McE (talk) 19:18, 27 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
See Wikipedia:Main Page/Errors#Errors in In the news. ~AH1(TCU) 01:28, 28 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved
Sorted, thanks Woody. Kevin McE (talk) 07:11, 28 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

January 26

January 26, 2011 (2011-01-26) (Wednesday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections


Northeast snow

There's no article on it yet, but see [9] [10] [11] [12] --Perseus, Son of Zeus ✉ sign here 19:27, 26 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Well for a start, Northeast where? China? France? Equatorial Guinea (now that would be a story)? Orion?. Clicking those links, it seems very little has happened. Snow in winter is not unusual in that part of the world. Modest Genius talk 19:32, 26 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Northeast U.S., but the snow is pretty significant. HOWEVER, this seems to be less significant considering what's happened this year so far. --Perseus, Son of Zeus ✉ sign here 19:40, 26 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose this doesn't seem worthy of posting. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 19:51, 26 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose, not unusual. Titoxd(?!? - cool stuff) 20:04, 26 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
No way It always snows over there. If it was snowing here (Coastal city in Central Chile) I'd support an ITN nom. Diego Grez (talk) 20:36, 26 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I was going to make some smart-alec comment about it often snowing in Punta Arenas, then noticed you said central Chile. Doh. Modest Genius talk 01:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Neutral Given its proximity to the State of the Union address, perhaps it deserves a mention? "Only one day after President Obama addresses America from Washington D.C., the capital is deluged with rain and slush." μηδείς (talk) 22:30, 26 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Only if we tie the Crop circles in Indonesia because Barack lived there in his child thus it must all be connected The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 23:07, 26 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
How are the two events remotely related, and how does the former render the latter sufficiently noteworthy? —David Levy 01:28, 27 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I presume its a joke ;). -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 08:30, 27 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Strong oppose Nothing special since such snowstorms in the northeast Unites States "every year" are hailed as very rare, and every year it is reported that they cause fatalities, though it's minor in contrast of the fatalities of same sort in other parts of the world.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 22:44, 26 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose My god, it snowed somewhere. Hold the front page! 87.112.177.117 (talk) 00:36, 27 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. The snow is greatly inconveniencing me, but it's nothing particularly extraordinary. We include weather disasters in ITN, but this is merely weather. —David Levy 01:28, 27 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. Please post such a nom only when casualties are reported. ~AH1(TCU) 18:26, 27 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose as per policy: WP:SNOW Heroeswithmetaphors (talk) 18:53, 27 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Russia ratifies New START treaty

Both Houses of Russia's Parliament approve the strategic New START treaty, a month after its ratification by the U.S. BBC

  • Here is the archived discussion of the U.S. ratification from December. Back then I thought that posting the U.S. procedure would be enough, since it had some intrigue unlike the yet expected Russian one. But in fact the additional resolution which accompanied the American ratification delayed the Russian approval, since it took some time for the Russian side to study that additional text which describes the U.S. view on the treaty in more detail. So it took a month for the Russian Parliament to come up with similar addition to the ratification bill, and this makes Russian ratification much more significant and interesting. Also, now the treaty is put into effect finally, which was not the case in December when some people complained about it in discussion. GreyHood Talk 15:49, 26 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support This is obviously ITN worthy, and with its ratification it officially comes into force which affects the nuclear armament in the world.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 15:58, 26 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - Agree with reasoning per nom. Jusdafax 16:17, 26 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Article needs more of an update. Is there enough news here to do more than change "ending" to "was ratified"? Makeemlighter (talk) 16:26, 26 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Posted. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 19:15, 26 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

2011 World Economic Forum

The 2011 World Economic Forum opens in Davos, Switzerland. [13]

  • It's 40 years since Davos Forums foundation in 1971. I wonder why this largest annual meeting of business and political leaders is not on WP:ITN/R. That looks like an expression of bias against economy topics on ITN (apparently in favour of sports, arts, science and space on ITNR, with addition of deaths, elections and instability). GreyHood Talk 15:18, 26 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I was ready to nominate this but thought that it may be more effective to post it when the forum ends with the general outcome attached in the blurb.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 15:27, 26 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Well, indeed. But I thought we'll have more time to discuss it. The Forum ends on January 30, when this nomination still should be on the list, so if we reach consensus by that time, someone just will need to post it before the topic is archived. GreyHood Talk 15:53, 26 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Hm, after some consideration I think I won't insist on late posting instead of quick one. Just some thoughts. If we post it early more people will get interested and will follow the development of the story, and with the current speed of updating ITN it likely will be still in the box on January 30. It's not a sports event also, and there are no clear winners, so what could be that general outcome to attach in the end? Perhaps the total cost of deals which are usually concluded at this summit, or some common declaration if they manage to produce it. Is it worth waiting for? GreyHood Talk 16:24, 26 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
You have a nice reasoning, and gauging that on Sunday we'll have few sport events, such as the end of Australian Open and of the World Men's Handball Championship, the speedy posting may receive greater attention.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 18:56, 26 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Unless something important comes out of it, I'm not sure this would be ITN-worthy. Makeemlighter (talk) 16:19, 26 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
What is being decided in this forum? Nergaal (talk) 20:51, 26 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Sometimes they launch Global Initiatives and sometimes they publish Global Reports (don't know much about initiatives, but the reports are quite useful on Wikipedia and constitute a part of the Lists of countries with rankings). Significant investment and trade deals may be concluded. This particular time they discuss how the global economy is recovering from the crisis. But mostly and primarily, this forum is about getting acquainted between the businessmen and politicians, and about trying to draw more investment for particular projects and countries. All this may affect the global investment patterns and economy growth predictions. GreyHood Talk 21:18, 26 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose for now. The meeting itself is not notable. If any important announcements are made, then we might have a story. Otherwise this is just a load of businessmen having a chinwag. Modest Genius talk 01:22, 28 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support as nominator. There seems to be an agreement on Wikipedia talk:In the news#Discussion that economy is underrepresented topic on ITN, and I propose adding more economic items to WP:ITN/R as a remedy. The World Economic Forum would certainly be one of them, along with the G8 and G20 meetings.
World Economic Forums are really important (much more important than most events that we usually post on ITN), even when there is no single major decision or declaration taken. Multiple deals, project presentations, economic reports are taking place on the Forums, including the present one.
And more of other important things have happened or will happen in the last day. Though I believe there would have been much more sense in posting it on the opening day so that the people could follow the event while it is happening, I propose this for tomorrow posting:

The 2011 World Economic Forum concludes in Davos, Switzerland. GreyHood Talk 18:53, 29 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Colombian coal mine explosion

Up to 30 miners are trapped by an explosion in a coal mine near Sardinata, Colombia. BBC

Comment Here the number has been lowered too, now they say from 13 to 19 people are trapped. GreyHood Talk 16:29, 26 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
There have been too many coal mine accidents posted on ITN. They are somewhat common so I don't think they really pass the notability criteria. Nergaal (talk) 18:43, 26 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support. At least 21 people were killed, others injured and it is the deadliest accident there in four years. ITN hasn't had a coal mine accident for some time and they don't seem to happen as often as the earthquakes, floods or other weather events that are posted. --candle•wicke 14:36, 27 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

2011 Lahore and Karachi bombings

  • In suicide bombing attacks in Lahore and Karachi, 16 people are killed and at least 50 injured.BBC

I think this one receives attention, has a global media coverage, and thereby is sufficient for posting. There is no article yet, but I hope it will be created ASAP.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 12:45, 26 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Now BBC says 13 people have been killed. GreyHood Talk 16:28, 26 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
It's perhaps only the fatalities of the blast in Lahore. Reportedly, 16 people are killed, with 13 in Lahore and 3 in Karachi.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 19:01, 26 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Hm, there are 9 victims in Lahore (including 3 policemen), plus 1 terrorist, and 2 victims in Karachi, plus 1 more terrorist. Anyway, the number of people killed is not very large for the region. But the number of injured is rather high, though, and the double attack adds to the significance. So perhaps I'd still support the entry if the article is created. GreyHood Talk 21:28, 26 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
16 is not that remarkable by that part's of the world standards for bombings. Nergaal (talk) 20:54, 26 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

2011 State of the Union Address

In a State of the Union Address U.S. President Barack Obama compares challenges facing the country with the 1950s Sputnik crisis. BBC

Don't know if the State of the Union addresses are posted usually, but this seems of major significance to the U.S., it is primary topic (including a live coverage) on BBC now, and it is granted a wide interest in the post-Soviet states due to the Sputnik phrase. GreyHood Talk 01:51, 26 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
strong oppose because the usa prez lectures people is no reason that the world is effeted. if they DO stuff it can be, certainly not some lecture to what will end up being one o if not the, most dysfunctional congress.(Lihaas (talk) 02:02, 26 January 2011 (UTC));[reply]
oppose a speech is a speech. we didnt even post Queen's first speech after 50 years in the UN. this thing is annual for goodness sakes. -- Ashish-g55 16:47, 26 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. This is no more significant than an opening of parliament or any comparable political event and we (quite rightly) don't post those, so we shouldn't post this. Not everything the media get into a frenzy about is ITN-worthy and this is a classic example. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 19:05, 26 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per HJ Mitchell. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 19:08, 26 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. An annual speech during which nothing particularly surprising or significant was said. So what? Modest Genius talk 01:31, 27 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Wow. You'd think there'll be lots of !votes when there's an argument between supports and opposes. This one is so one-sided, but this has the highest number of !votes currently on WP:ITN/C Well, it can be beaten by the northeast U.S. snow suggestion above.
Oppose because there was no major surprise policy statement (eg "Axis of Evil"). Heroeswithmetaphors (talk) 18:50, 27 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

January 25

January 25, 2011 (2011-01-25) (Tuesday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Business and economy

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Sports

January 2011 Manila bus bombing


Lebanese government of November 2009

The March 8-backed nominee for PM has been tasked by the president to form a government amid controversy both within and without Lebanon.(Lihaas (talk) 01:13, 26 January 2011 (UTC));[reply]


2011 Egyptian protests

Thousands of Egyptians join the anti-government protests after an internet campaign inspired by the recent Tunisian Revolution. BBC

  • Not sure if it is worth posting right now, but at least we must keep an eye on this story. If the Tunisian blurb was still in the box I'd certainly propose to update it with this new development. GreyHood Talk 17:16, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment This is another protest in the aftermath of the protests in Tunisia, which also follows the protests in Algeria and Yemen.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 18:45, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Then we may consider this more general blurb: A wave of instability continues in the Arab states following the recent Tunisian Revolution, with thousands joining anti-government protests in Egypt. GreyHood Talk 19:00, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support per the second blurb. I reckon that these protests are sufficient for posting separately, but including all the protests which comprise the instability in the region could be more comprehensive for the reader.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 19:11, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Wait. I don't think we should post about the protests, per se. If they lead to social / political change (such as in Tunisia), cause significant economic instability (the French pension strikes), or result in violent reprisals (e.g. Iran), then I would support a post. Thousands of protesters is remarkable for Egypt, but in a country of nearly 80 million people, it seems unlikely to have much consequence. If it does lead somewhere, then I'd support posting about those results. Dragons flight (talk) 19:51, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The reasoning is good, and I was just to wait for a while to see what will happen but actually it's still significant since these are mass protests in many Arab countries, which get international importance and global media coverage.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 20:11, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Support as (based on the contents of the article) the protests have taken place in the capital Cairo (with a major square occupied in Africa's largest city and the 16th most populous metropolitan area in the world) as well as throughout the country, have been occurring for some time (i.e. are not a one-day event), have proven to be fatal in at least one case, have involved extreme acts (e.g. self-immolation on multiple occasions), and because such events are rare in this part of the world or country. Also, as noted above, it has a population of nearly 80 million (15th in world) which hardly makes the place small or internationally insignificant in any way. --candle•wicke 21:28, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Are we looking at the same article? 2011 Egyptian protests has several paragraphs of "background" on why Egypt is bad / corrupt / etc., but less than 5 sentences and one brief table of immolations for actually describing the current events. It's not really enough that Egypt is important, we also need a demonstration than the current event is important too. More content needed. Dragons flight (talk) 22:00, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I concur with the view that the article is non-balanced and perhaps even non-neutral. Something should be done about it. But as for the description of the current events, the article has nearly as much prose as the recently posted 24 January 2011 Iraq bombings, the usual minimum IMO. GreyHood Talk 22:29, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Support per Candlewicke. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 21:42, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Support per Candlewicke's posts. If the President's family have fled, you have news that is ITN-worthy. That's serious instability. Jusdafax 22:43, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Support per Candlewicke.--Wikireader41 (talk) 22:49, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment: I support, but the article needs improvement before it is to be posted. There needs to be more information about the protests themselves, and not just the controversial background causes to the protests. SpencerT♦C 23:33, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Support My support might be a bit biased because I am an Egyptian, a pro-democracy advocate and the fact that I have started the article and have been working on it since then. Nevertheless, The last time Egypt saw any protest on this scale was back in 1977 in what was known as The Bread Intifada or as Anwar El Sadat called it The Thieves Intifada. -- The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 23:42, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 08:33, 26 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Russia purchases French Mistral-class warships

Russia and France sign an agreement to jointly build four Mistral class helicopter carriers for the Russian Navy. [16]

  • For quite a while, the Russian purchase of Mistral has been a major topic in Russia as well as in the neighbouring Eastern European countries and NATO member states. It might be the largest ever Russian purchase of military equipment from a West European or NATO country. This seems to be a final deal after a long series of talks and preliminary agreements. Two of the ships are to be built in France, and two more in Russia, thus transferring some technological know-how to the Russian side. The deal of France with Russia is highly criticized by Georgia and the Baltic States. All in all, this story is of high international significance and is worth posting. Perhaps, a direct link to the Mistral_class_amphibious_assault_ship#Russian_purchase may be highlighted, not the article in the whole. GreyHood Talk 17:00, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. A large contract, and important for both the Russian Navy and the for French defence industry. It's the first time Russia has made a major arms purchase deal with a NATO country. Nanobear (talk) 21:52, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support since it's a big deal between the two countries, and it's directly concerned with a part of the Russian military, which is of global interest.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 23:03, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose There are much bigger recent arms deals than this (for instance the $60Bn US-Saudi arms deal which was approved by the US Congress late last year) and this has been dragging on for months, so it's hardly 'new' news. It's also unlikely to be of wide interest to readers. Nick-D (talk) 00:24, 26 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • That $60Bn US-Saudi arms deal should have been nominated and featured, btw. If we have overlooked some important news that doesn't mean we should never post the news of similar kind again. Anyway, the size of the deal is not of primary interest in this case. Here we have both a rare and major purchase of equipment from NATO country by a country that once have been NATO's strategical opponent, quite unlike the US-Saudi deal which is totally routine except for the especially large sum of money this time. France-Russia deal has been of much interest for a range of countries, including U.S., Georgia, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Poland, France, Russia. Countries bordering the Baltic Sea and the Black Sea expressed their concern regarding the possible usage of Mistrals in their waters. If this is not international significance, I don't know what is. And the fact that this has been dragging on for months only adds to the significance of the matter. GreyHood Talk 00:44, 26 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Request for comment. Guys, so what's with this story? Are strategic defence technology deals really of so little interest to the audience? I was thinking about bringing more stories of such kind in future, is it worth making attempt? GreyHood Talk 20:42, 26 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Neutral. The size of the deal is not huge in defence terms (€1.4b), but the previous strategic animosity between the two parties gives it greater significance. We certainly can't go posting all arms deals, though this one is rather unusual. I can see both pros and cons on this one, so I won't !vote either way. Modest Genius talk 01:38, 27 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Actually, while two ships will be built in France with a cost of €1.4b, two more ships will be built in Russia with a comparable cost. So the total cost of the project will be about €2.8 billion, which in dollar terms is comparable to the annual size of exports by world's largest arms exporters. GreyHood Talk 13:11, 27 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
McCain: France-Russia warship deal 'troubling'

Merger between British Airways and Iberia


It's somehow below-the-radar news, but may be ITN-worthy.195.57.146.182 (talk) 08:51, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Given that both airlines are still operating under their current names as subsidiaries of the new group, there's nothing really major about this. Besides, it's been knowledge for a long time now, merely that shares in the new entity have begun trading. Not a peep on BBC News' main page, where you'd expect it to be if it really was "in the news", so oppose. Strange Passerby (talk • contribs) 09:35, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose old news.--Johnsemlak (talk) 11:40, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose was posted in April 2010 when the merger was announced. Grsz 11 18:04, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Strong oppose - we already posted this story 9 months ago. Modest Genius talk 01:40, 27 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Palestine Papers

This is attracting a lot of media attention (e.g. BBC NYT El Pais)

This is a big deal-changer (both literally and figuratively) in the conflict, but the article could do with better referencing. Thoughts? Modest Genius talk 01:55, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Support with caveat Per nom, I am going to look over the article now, I fear the article could be landmine with the usual Arab/Israeli pov war. If its stable enough and fairly neutral We can post. The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 03:42, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
That amusing its the most neutral Arab/Israeli article I have seen in while though lack of referencing is an issue that needs to be taken care of before posting The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 03:44, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support this is a really big deal. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 09:05, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support per Modest Genius. GreyHood Talk 15:33, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support - per all above. this is major news.--BabbaQ (talk) 16:47, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

information Administrator note The sourcing (or lack thereof) is still an issue. Far too much of it is unsourced for it to be ready to post. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 18:14, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Support per previous such releases and this one being referred to as "the largest in the history of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict" which, according to Wikipedia, has been going on from the "early 20th century-present", a considerable period of time. --candle•wicke 21:10, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support's fine, but with all the support in the world, it's not going anywhere near the Main Page without serious work to sort out the sourcing. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 22:30, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry I haven't had time to work on this myself. The second half of the article (the reactions) is fine, it's just the bit dealing with exactly what's in the documents which needs improved references. Modest Genius talk 01:42, 27 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

January 24

January 24, 2011 (2011-01-24) (Monday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture
  • Hamas bans the sale of two books that it says "contradict" Islam after receiving complaints from locals. (Associated Press)

Business and economy

Disasters

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Science

Sport

Rahm Emanuel tossed off the ballot

See [17] notable enough? --Perseus, Son of Zeus ✉ sign here 18:42, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Unless Emanuel is gay, mayoral elections anywhere have no chance here. –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 19:12, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Sorta expecting numerous "Who?" and other similar responses right about.... now. –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 19:27, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
You forget the ITNC regulars are slightly more aware of current events and important people than the general population The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 20:54, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Strong oppose. Even the results of the election itself won't be significant enough, let alone legal challenges over who can contest it. Modest Genius talk 23:39, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


More Iraq bombings

24 January 2011 Iraq bombings. Another 25 dead in Karbala (and two in Baghdad). This might work as an update to the current blurb, along the lines of: Less than a week after 133 die in a series of bomb attacks in Iraq, four bombs explode killing another 27. Strange Passerby (talk • contribs) 15:15, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Support updating the current blurb and moving it up. GreyHood Talk 18:53, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support per Greyhood. This is significant, but related attack was already posted, so updating is solution here.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 18:55, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support per Greyhood. (update) --Perseus, Son of Zeus ✉ sign here 19:34, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Update and bump current blurb. Merging the articles would seem to be a good idea too. The 'less than a week' bit sounds bad and should be avoided. How about 'Three sets of bombings' or 'a third series of bombings' or similar? Modest Genius talk 23:43, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The only reason I didn't add it to the existing article was that the new set of attacks haven't been described as being suicide attacks (the original article is about suicide attacks), and while the three original attacks happened on back-to-back days and could be combined into one article about all bombings within a week/three-day span, this stand-alone attack really doesn't seem to fit in there. Strange Passerby (talk • contribs) 02:20, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comment This seems ready to post. Merging the articles is not necessary. GreyHood Talk 15:31, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Suicide bombing of Domodedovo International Airport

Deaths into double figures reported, many more casualties (BBC). The Rambling Man (talk) 14:24, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Support Asssuming it is a Suicide Bombing and the casulties are actually that high and pending article creation. We should wait another 6 hours or so before posting See what shakes out The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 14:33, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I start 2011 Domodedovo International Airport attack - EugεnS¡m¡on(14) ® 14:35, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Update 1 - 31 deaths - EugεnS¡m¡on(14) ® 14:48, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support Post immediately; article in place, WP:RS and all. Hold back on mention of suicide bombing; media still calling it an "apparent suicide bomb blast". Lampman (talk) 15:09, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support, obviously.--Johnsemlak (talk) 16:04, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Death of Jack LaLanne

- Nomination - EugεnS¡m¡on(14) ® 13:17, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per my rationale for Bhimsen Joshi below, except that this gentleman is even older and even less significant. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 13:36, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Neutral I don't think this should be posted, since Jack LaLanne achieved something which is more entertainment than something influential. However, he became part of many commercials broadcasted in whole world, so his media coverage is broader than his achievements. Hence, I have no oppose for this.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 19:00, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support The man was a huge pioneer of the fitness movement with a two decade TV run, world-wide name recognition among people people born before the internet age, and a lifespan of notable length.μηδείς (talk) 19:43, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I rather dispute the 'world-wide name recognition among people people born before the internet age', which he certainly does not have. I'm insufficiently familiar with this person, but his TV show doesn't even have its own article, just four other languages have articles on him, and his death isn't receiving much media attention (at least from my usual outlets). So I oppose unless someone can demonstrate widespread importance. Modest Genius talk 23:52, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I don't strongly care about this nor really expect a consensus for LaLanne to be posted. But wikipedia's bias is hugely towards things that happened after the 1990's. The lack of an article on any particular subject over 20 years of age hardly speaks to its actual import. With articles on Marxist cells, computer games, and footballers making up a third of the encyclopedia, and a further one in twenty articles being about municipalities in Poland, some focus on the world before Clinton would be refreshing. (If you don't believe that one in twenty or more articles is about a Polish political division, try hitting random article 20 times as an experiment.) μηδείς (talk) 00:45, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I tried 40 random articles, and indeed got two Polish municipalities. I also got 5 other articles on towns/communes/etc in five other nations. Yay bias. ::Modest Genius talk 01:03, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, one of them was France and another was Azerbaijan, no doubt. μηδείς (talk) 01:32, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. "On January 23, 2011, Jack LaLanne died of respiratory failure due to pneumonia at his home in Morro Bay, California." That sentence comprises the article's information regarding LaLanne's death (in its entirety). I'm not suggesting that this indicates a deficiency, as there probably isn't much more than that to document (e.g. extraordinary circumstances, major societal impact or comments from high-profile individuals). But ITN isn't a news ticker; its purpose is to link to articles created or substantially updated to reflect recent/current events. Unless and until such an update occurs (or the section's scope is modified), this article simply doesn't qualify. —David Levy 01:04, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Portuguese election

Aníbal Cavaco Silva wins a second term as President of Portugal. CNN Courcelles 07:49, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Head of state, ITN/R. There's a section that needs references but otherwise this looks ready to post. --Tone 09:59, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The election article is very sparsely referenced and Silva's article isn't a lot better. One or t'other will need some wok before it can be posted. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 10:17, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I was going to nominate this myself, but I restrained myself as it was not a particularly noteworthy election. He was expected to be re-elected, and he was, quite easily apparently. It's on ITN/R though, so as long as the article gets fixed up, I don't see anything stopping it getting posted. Nightw 10:45, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
It's on ITNR so should go up, but the article is almost completely unreferenced, consists mostly of a list of opinion polls, and has no prose whatsoever on the result. Regardless of how easy the victory was, it should go up once the article is brought up to speed. Modest Genius talk 23:55, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Death of Bhimsen Joshi

BBC - "One of India's most famous musicians" / "A legendary singer of Hindustani classical music" / "A big shock for all students of music in India" / "An era of Hindustani classical music has ended. One of the pillars is gone" --candle•wicke 05:52, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose, for a death at the age of 89 to get onto ITN, the person should have some extraordinary achievement to their name like, say, founding the Peace Corps, and should be very well known to a wide variety of people (not make me think "who?"). Even putting that aside, we already have one obituary on ITN and I would say founding the Peace Corps is more significant than some nice singing. Tragic, but not ITN material. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 07:31, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


IPv4 address exhaustion

The Internet runs out of addresses


As of this writing, IANA has only seven class A networks left to allocate. This should be exhausted sometime in the next week or two. (Countdown). Raul654 (talk) 05:38, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This may be a really stupid question, but what happens when they run out? Does the world end or do they just change the way they designate IPs or something a little less dramatic? HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 07:33, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
My understanding is if a new startup company wants an IP, they simply won't be able to get it. Similarly to if all the new phone prefixes in the US were to be in use. A new state /county/whatever would not be able to get a new prefix, even if the total number of phone lines in the US is well below 10bn. Nergaal (talk) 07:39, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
More on that question at [19] Pedro :  Chat  07:39, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Wait until all of the class A blocks have been allocated. What will happen after this is that the regional groupings (Asia Pacific, Europe, Africa and the Americas I believe) will continue to allocate them, Asia will run out first around the end of 2011, but given they make most routers they'll probably be forcing an upgrade through so that vaguely new ones will support IPv6. As far as I know IPv6 addresses will almost certainly never run out - see this for more. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 08:25, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Rain check support. This should be posted when the IPv4 addresses are nearly all depleted. ~AH1(TCU) 16:52, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support, but the blurb sucks and is misleading. From what I understand, there are seven /8's available, and as soon as two of those /8's are gone, then each of the remaining five is reallocated to each one of the RIRs. We are probably a week away from that occurring. While the exhaustion of the central address pool is a noteworthy milestone by itself, each RIR will continue to have some IP addresses for at least a few years, so "the Internet runs out of addresses" is not entirely true. Titoxd(?!? - cool stuff) 21:10, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Actually the Asia-Pacific one is due to run out completely by the end of the year. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 21:22, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
This is an interesting story which we should certainly cover, but it's difficult to know exactly when we should do so. Running out of centrally-administered class-A addresses isn't the same as running out of addresses, and new IPs will continue to be available for some time. Even those RIRs which are close to exhaustion will probably recall IPs which have been allocated but are not actually in use. On the other hand, it's difficult to see any other clear boundary to post at. Hmmm. Modest Genius talk 23:59, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


I emailed a friend of mine, Chase Cotton, who used to work under Dave Sincoskie at Bellcore. Here is his response:

I note data sourced from an IPv6 provider run by an old buddy of mine (v4 FUD is good for them)
pain likely for wireless providers ... wireline providers in pretty good shape
will kick off a number of alternate mechanisms (commercial, carrier NAT, etc.)
no need to head to the bomb shelter quite yet (IMHO)
Chase

I'm going to hazard a couple predictions: (1) while some businesses will run into consternation, end users will be entirely unaffected, and (2) it will significantly speed the deployment of NATs and later IPv6. With that said however, I definitely think it should be main page news. Raul654 (talk) 00:24, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Question: Am I correct in noting that internet users already are assigned IPv6 addresses, but that according to Raul's post, this will still affect some businesses? If so, the fact that there will be a switch merits a blurb on ITN. EricLeb01 (Page | Talk) 03:34, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Am I correct in noting that internet users already are assigned IPv6 addresses -incorrect. IPv6 is essentially not in use anywhere except on a handful of private lans. I think it's installed lots and lots of places (I think every major OS comes with it, turned off). Raul654 (talk) 04:02, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
this will still affect some businesses? - as someone noted above, each regional naming authority has a stockpile, but those will eventually be depleted and then it's going to get sticky. Stop-gap measures (like using a network address translator, a NAT, to have multiple computers / networks sharing an IP ) can be deployed, but the only real long-term fix is to use IPv6Raul654 (talk) 04:02, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


A New Permian Extinction Theory

A study published today in Nature Geoscience suggests that one trigger for the near-apocalyptic 'great die-off', which killed 96% of marine species and 70% of land-based vertebrate organisms, was a volcanic explosion in coal and shale deposits in Siberia.[20] Crnorizec (talk) 04:05, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Weak oppose. It's actually only a small refinement on an existing theory. As the referenced URL explains, we already knew that there was a massive volcanic eruption in the Siberian Traps (1-4 million cubic kilometers of magma) at the time of the Permian extinction. Further, we also knew that the eruption caused a massive perturbation of the carbon cycle (~3 trillion tonnes of carbon emitted). The new evidence points to coal combustion as enhancing the eruption and polluting the oceans with toxic ash. So, this work refines the details of the eruption in an important way, but really isn't a new theory of the underlying cause of the extinction. It is a scientifically interesting argument, but the new part of this "news" isn't really all that broadly interesting in my opinion. Dragons flight (talk) 06:20, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I agree that most of the facts were known, however, this coal fire was the missing peace of the puzzle. If you look at the article, most of the assumptions that have been made in the past, are now justified and unified under this latest finding. Crnorizec (talk) 13:50, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. This is an incremental change to an existing theory, and given the historical disagreements over this event I severely doubt it will settle the matter one way or the other. Modest Genius talk 00:06, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

January 23

January 23, 2011 (2011-01-23) (Sunday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture
  • Actress Zsa Zsa Gabor is permitted to leave hospital and return home, eight days after undergoing the amputation of her right leg. (BBC)

Business and economy

Disasters

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Science

Sport


A "European record" in Belgium

"Thousands of Belgians staged a march of 'Shame' in the capital to demand a government after a seven-month impasse between Dutch and French-speaking politicians, a European record." Compared to an "unprecedented" march 15 years ago so doesn't seem to happen very often. More coverage: Al Jazeera, The Guardian, The Irish Times. Is it significant enough? --candle•wicke 03:31, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Only 30,000 showed up? –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 15:16, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. 'Belgium can't agree a government' isn't news. Although this is the longest continuous period without one, since 2002 they've been without a government for more time than they've actually had one (slight exaggeration, but not by that much). The protest itself is hardly significant. Modest Genius talk 00:10, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Lance Armstrong officially retires

I don't favour announcements of retirements by sportspeople. Way too often they last less than 2 years. Around 5 cases of similar prominence than Armstrong jump to my mind immediatelly. --Tone 17:16, 23 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
He hasn't resigned, he has said he won't take part in any more races outside the US. Had he resigned (as he did last time around) at the top of the sport, this might have been worth including, but he was 60th in the UCI World Rankings last year. In terms of sporting importance in cycling, this might manage 4th place in the most important events of this week, well behind the Tour Down Under, the Tour de San Luis, and the announcement of wild card teams for the Tour de France. In which case, we are left to consider its importance in terms of celeb news. So oppose. Kevin McE (talk) 18:33, 23 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. We should post major achievements when they happen, not when the person retires. Modest Genius talk 19:52, 23 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose posting the retirement of any sportsperson. A retirement is just not particularly notable and experience shows us that it's often not permanent. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 19:59, 23 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose posting retirements in general, ever.--Wikireader41 (talk) 01:40, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comment – for what it's worth, we posted the retirement last year of Haile Gebrselassie, which lasted barely two weeks. Strange Passerby (talk • contribs) 02:01, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
IIRC that was part of a blurb on the 2010 NYC marathon (an ITN/R event) in general, after which Gebrselassie retired. The retimrement wasn't the sole event in the blurb.--Johnsemlak (talk) 02:58, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Per John. We posted his retirement because it shadowed the outcome of the New York marathon, which is ITN topic. It was irregularly a significant event which get posted, but not introducing a rule of posting retirements.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 03:00, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose, wouldn't shock me if he came back once the doping furore ceased.  狐 FOX  03:06, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I would never say never to posting a athlete's retirement but it should be a rare and significant event. This ain't it. It's also possible that in the near future the US government will charge him with doping related offences (including stuff like drug trafficking and racketeering). That might be news.--Johnsemlak (talk) 09:06, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Ireland's Green Party quits government of Brian Cowen

John Gormley
John Gormley

Ireland's Green Party quits government of Brian Cowen, removing the ruling coalition's majority. BBC

  • Well, they say this move is expected to bring forward the general election. The event itself is not that important on the world scale, but the Irish governmental topic in the whole is important and interesting enough development, I think, so it may be given some place on ITN. If more expected events come true, we'll simply change the blurbs. GreyHood Talk 16:23, 23 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support: something needs to be posted about the developments in Ireland, and this is notable enough in my opinion. Nightw 17:46, 23 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support, while expected, this is of more international interest than the resignation of a party leader. Titoxd(?!? - cool stuff) 18:50, 23 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Surely it would be better to put this up on Tuesday after the vote of no confidence takes place. After all in theory it could be that the Irish Government survives the vote of no confidence.Jason Rees (talk) 19:05, 23 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
My understanding was that the Greens had withdrawn, but would be supporting budget and confidence votes. Am I mistaken? Modest Genius talk 19:59, 23 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
As far as i know, the Greens have only said that they will be supporting the budget vote. Although if you think about it, why would they walk out of the Government and then support them in the confidence vote?Jason Rees (talk) 00:02, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support. We haven't covered any of the developments in Ireland, so I'm willing to support anything related to it. Especially with the timer being deep in the red. EricLeb01 (Page | Talk) 23:57, 23 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Suggest: The Green Party (leader John Gormley pictured) withdraws from the Brian Cowen-led government of Ireland. --candle•wicke 02:25, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: I am opposed to making the Green Party article the featured one here. It's more important to focus on the fall of the government and not on the party that's forced its fall, imo. Strange Passerby (talk • contribs) 02:32, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: There is no "fall of government" article and the nomination suggests a focus on the Green Party. If the party hadn't withdrawn how would there be anything to focus on? --candle•wicke 02:57, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Government of the 30th Dáil would seem to be the right article, if it was updated. Strange Passerby (talk • contribs) 03:25, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support by the way, since the political situation has been changing so rapidly throughout the week as seen in Portal:Current events or this BBC summary. --candle•wicke 03:21, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Provisional results show South Sudan votes to secede

Provisional results from South Sudan independence referendum show that almost 99 percent of voters have chosen secession from Sudan. Reuters

  • I remember that we agreed to wait the last official results in February, but the timer is very red and there is not even one nomination on the list that is likely to pass (while there is much bickering going on in the discussions).
  • With 99% of votes for independence, after 98.7 percent of the votes had been counted, the situation is too much clear and predictable. Anyway, the formation of a new state is important and interesting process, and no harm would be done if we draw attention to this topic once again. GreyHood Talk 16:12, 23 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The result seems obvious enough by now aleady. Would make sense in posting now and when the independence is actually declared some time in summer. --Tone 17:18, 23 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose: I still think we should wait for the official results to be announced. There's always the possibility of them getting challenged, dismissed as "unconstitutional", or some other response (maybe even violent) from Khartoum, so I think there'll be something more solid to say when the results come in a few weeks. It's not that long to wait. Nightw 17:44, 23 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I'd concur with waiting for the official results if they were expected some time soon, though if they were expected to be ages, I'd rather have it up while it's news. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 19:50, 23 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Quoth the article: 'The United Nations reported that preliminary results would be expected by February 2, 2011, with final results expected within the following two weeks.' I still think we should wait for the official final results. Modest Genius talk 20:04, 23 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Wait per Modest Genius. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 20:07, 23 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

January 22

January 22, 2011 (2011-01-22) (Saturday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Science

Resignation of Brian Cowen

"He will remain as Taoiseach." ?  狐 FOX  14:16, 22 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support if he resigns as Prime Minister (where "Taoiseach" should be at, but that won't have a sliver of a chance for a move so...") –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 14:18, 22 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oh shush. ;)  狐 FOX  14:35, 22 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Do you want me to try? :p –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 14:36, 22 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
It seems so. It has just happened but it is already of interest to the media elsewhere, such as the BBC, Reuters, Brisbane Times, Daily Mail / Sky News. --candle•wicke 14:31, 22 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Cowen resigns as party leader, but remains Irish PM. When Gordon Brown resigned as Labour head he also resigned as PM. This one's different. –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 14:33, 22 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
That's why it is unusual. The leader of a party resigns but is still the leader of a country? --candle•wicke 14:36, 22 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
So we're into listing resigning party leaders now at ITN? –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 14:37, 22 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
PS: I don't speak Irish but I don't think the "Taoiseach" is the leader of the country. –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 14:39, 22 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
No. But how often does a party leader (who is government leader) resign and remain government leader too? Just wondering. --candle•wicke 14:41, 22 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Even better. The head of state. Of 90 million people. "President Gloria Macapagal Arroyo will be resigning as national chair of the ruling party, Lakas-Kampi-CMD" –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 14:45, 22 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I see. Though that was 2009. Was it nominated at the time? --candle•wicke 14:48, 22 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Even if it was/was not, ITN doesn't follow stare decisis. –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 14:49, 22 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

(edit conflict) How is the head of state "even better" than the head of government? I don't think it works the same in Ireland. --candle•wicke 14:52, 22 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"Head of State" is always better than "Head of Government" just as pro football is always better than college football. –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 14:55, 22 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Although I agree that we should Oppose until FF is soundly defeated this March and Cowen leaves office before we put this on ITN, I disagree with your comparison. GMA resigning the Lakas-Kampi-CMD leadership is incongruous to the current situation because the President of the Philippines is not directly tied to the leader of the lower house's majority party as it is in Ireland. The Philippines is a presidential system and Ireland is a parliamentary system, although the Philippines has been debating moving over for the last three years or so. (An example of a similar system to the Philippines would be how Barack Obama is the President of the United States but Tim Kaine is the Leader of the Democratic Party.) I'm sure another, more accurate example exists in a parliamentary republic where the majority party leader resigns but stays on as PM for an extended period after the resignation but I personally can't think of one right now. Therequiembellishere (talk) 10:17, 23 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Although they maybe of different systems, the dynamic stays the same: the two leaders resigned right before the election due to their massive unpopularity. If you'll see Timeline of Philippine elections, the president and the leader of the lower house always come from the same party, so it appears that two are almost similar, just that the system is different. –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 11:32, 23 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


the silly pro-footbnall metaphor is ruubish. College football is more fanatically fopllowed vs. better" pro-football.(Lihaas (talk) 08:20, 23 January 2011 (UTC));[reply]
That was the point. –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 08:48, 23 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
ah! god knows weve all discussed that to the death at some point ;)Lihaas (talk) 08:20, 23 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
it's a new year's ritual. –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 11:48, 23 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Keith Olbermann (withdrawn)

January 21

January 21, 2011 (2011-01-21) (Friday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Business and economy

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

China surpasses Japan as second largest economy

Keep an eye on on this should be posted when it bcomes official. From the The Yomiuri Shimbun http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/dy/editorial/T110121004116.htm —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.65.20.122 (talk) 18:46, 21 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment In terms of GDP (PPP) China has surpassed Japan years ago, and some estimates even suggest that by now China has surpassed the United States as well. As for the nominal GDP, this is also an important indicator of course, and various estimates already have put China on the second place (see List of countries by GDP (nominal)). However, we indeed do need some event at a certain date in order to post it. If the Chinese Government would make a special announcement of the fact, not just a casual issue of statistics, I'd support this. GreyHood Talk 21:35, 21 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Ya we talking about nominal here. Should it be posted now? Or wait until its "official" when Japan reveals official numbers Feb 16 I believe. Japan Econ Minister has already conceded that China has overtaken it. From the Journal: http://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/2011/01/20/its-almost-official-china-is-2nd-biggest-economy/

As far as the PPP claim by one US economist that it has overtaken US. It is only from one person, and very much a minority view right now. Although by current measurements, this will almost certainly happen in just several years. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.65.20.122 (talk) 04:09, 22 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

South Korean Navy rescues Samho Jewelry crew from Somali pirates

In the Operation Dawn of Gulf of Aden the South Korean Navy rescues the crew of Samho Jewelry tanker, killing eight and capturing five Somali pirates. BBC

We have the article Operation Dawn of Gulf of Aden, although it appears to be currently under construction. --BorgQueen (talk) 20:29, 21 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I've incorporated this into the blurb. The article is sufficiently good, I believe. Now we may even do without an additional article for the ship. GreyHood Talk 21:50, 21 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support, me and XavierGreen (talk · contribs) have worked on the article, and I think it's in decent shape. A raid against pirates, as opposed to paying ransom, is pretty unusual, as is the fact that there were casualties. C628 (talk) 23:44, 21 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support as per above, this is the bloodiest engagement to my knowledge fought so far against the pirates by any nation. Its also, to my knowledge, the first action where the side fighting the somali pirates suffered casualties.XavierGreen (talk) 00:24, 22 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Any objections? The article looks fine now. --BorgQueen (talk) 06:45, 22 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Support - Good looking article. Count me on board, so to speak. Jusdafax 07:00, 22 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 07:07, 22 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

January 20

January 20, 2011 (2011-01-20) (Thursday)
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Science
  • 2010 tied for the warmest year ever recorded, and the last decade was the warmest ever recorded, since records began in the 1800s.(Reuters)

Venezuela oil reserves surpasses Saudi Arabia's

Venezuela has overtaken Saudi Arabia as the world leader in proven oil reserves, with certified deposits reaching 297 billion barrels. [28]

  • Comment Indeed, though it is not clear when this will happen. The oil reserves are very large, but this is mostly heavy crude oil that requires much investment in its recovery, and Hugo Chavez hasn't been very successful in attracting foreign investment to Venezuela so far. I'd include some such remark to the blurb, but this is not possible in the short format of ITN. Nevertheless, the potential is huge, and the discovery and certifying of so large reserves is an event itself. GreyHood Talk 18:04, 20 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. Is there any meaningful independent corroboration for this? Venezuela increased their self-proclaimed "proven reserves" 40% since last year. Personally, I'd like to know that this is based on real facts on the ground and that such numbers aren't merely being manipulated by the Chavez government for political gain. Dragons flight (talk) 18:22, 20 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comment The estimates, on which claims of Chavez are based, were made initially by American agencies (US Geological Survey and perhaps some others). A year ago they even said that Venezuela's reserves may double that of Saudi Arabia [29]. The current news are about certified deposits, and if the estimates of U.S. geologists are at least partially true, I don't see any reason not to take Chavez words seriously. GreyHood Talk 18:36, 20 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The US estimate is not new though. In 1987, it was estimated that there was originally 1100 billion barrels of oil in place. In two decades since then that's been revised to 1300 billion, which in the world of oil exploration is hardly any change. The USGS report didn't change those figures, they simply updated estimates of the recoverable fraction to 45% and (after discounting oil already removed) came to the conclusion that 513 billion barrels are recoverable plus or minus 20%. By contrast Venezuela has moved their "proven reserves" from 100 billion barrels in 1997 to 297 billion today, a 200% increase in less than four years, even though the estimated total reserves have increased only about 30% over more than two decades. Maybe Venezuela has been doing lots of oil exploration, and they really have documented far more proven reserves. However, I suspect it is more likely that the Venezuelan government simply finds it politically desirable to move their "proven reserves" closer to the long-standing "total reserve" estimates. Hence, back to my original question. Is there any independent evidence for the large increase in proven reserves? Personally, I'd rather not run an ITN story if the only basis for it is a self-serving claim from the Venezuelan government. Dragons flight (talk) 19:08, 20 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
P.S. So oppose pending some corroboration. Dragons flight (talk) 19:10, 20 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The increase in estimate of recoverable fraction is actually the same as increase in proven reserves (see the definition), so we shouldn't discard new U.S. data because they haven't changed the total reserves significantly. New technology allows to extract more oil, and thus increases in proven reserves may depend on technology updates rather than on new exploration. Also, the increases of Venezuela proven oil reserves in previous years were supported by OPEC data. I doubt that this new increase won't be supported by OPEC as well (note, that Saudi Arabia is an OPEC member). But I don't know when the new OPEC data will be issued and I'm almost sure this won't constitute an event noticed by the media, so we have to report Venezuela increase now or never. GreyHood Talk 19:35, 20 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Blurb corrected I've added the word "proven" to the highlighted part of the blurb, so that it couldn't be confused with total reserves. GreyHood Talk 19:48, 20 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I have to nit pick that. I am not clear who certified this exactly? The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 19:59, 20 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Not sure about the exact case, but naturally, some regulating office of the owner country does the certification, as far as I know. In this case this should be some part of Venezuela government. Certification is made on the basis of expert estimates. This time clearly the certification is supported by independent American expertise. GreyHood Talk 20:28, 20 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Unless they provide details on the facts supporting their new estimate, this is basically the same as saying that Venezuela can claim their proven reserves are any number less than the 500 billion barrels in total reserves (proven and unproven) estimated by the US, and there is no way to challenge their result. On the basis that extraordinary claims (e.g. number one in the world and a 200% increase in four years) demand extraordinary evidence, I would be opposed to putting this on ITN without more than Venezuela says so. Who are their experts and what new fields have been proven, etc.? Dragons flight (talk) 21:05, 20 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Unfortunately I'm not in position to quickly and easily answer this your question. Just now I can only indicate again that this 200% increase is not actually extraordinary, with the fact that large potential had been foreseen decades ago, with the fact that larger part of this increase has been already recognized by OPEC, and with the fact that most respectable U.S. estimates put a much larger figure. GreyHood Talk 21:29, 20 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict) No, they are not the same. The page you cite reads: "The term proven reserves is further subdivided into proved developed reserves and proved undeveloped reserves. Note that it DOES NOT include Unproven reserves, which is broken down into Probable reserves as well as Potential reserves." Setting aside that those sentences are poor writing, it alludes to the fact that proven reserves are a combination of both the recovery fraction and the amount of proven oil in the ground. It does not include the oil in "potential" and otherwise unproven deposits. Since the 80s geologists have proposed that oil bearing rocks are extensive enough that they could hold over a trillion barrels, but one needs to sample the field and better document its extent before putting those formations in the proven column. Perhaps they have now done more of that work, but I'd like to see documentation of it. Dragons flight (talk) 19:57, 20 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Well, you may try to find more documentation on the United States Geological Survey site, perhaps. Anyway, given the stable estimate of proven amount of oil in the ground, the increase of estimate of recoverable fraction leads to increase in proven reserves. GreyHood Talk 20:28, 20 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Suggest: Venezuela overtakes Saudi Arabia as the world leader in proven oil reserves. --candle•wicke 21:45, 20 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Support: this doesn't look good for the rainforest, or the natives. Nightw 22:59, 20 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I think Dragons flight has a point here. The estimate is clear enough, and I don't think it should be rejected to prove only that it is used by the country for political purposes.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 23:02, 20 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. I don't see what has happened here. The only source that is remotely current is the article which relies on Hugo Chavez's statement that Venezuela's reserves are the world's largest. This very much looks like an announcement by Chavez for political purposes, even if there is factual basis for it.--Johnsemlak (talk) 23:55, 20 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comment What has happened is the official recognition by Venezuela government and petroleum industry of huge new recoverable oil reserves, which has made it world leader by that criterion. The actual event of the discovery and estimate of these reserves may have happened long before, but as with many scientific discoveries it should be reported when it is officially announced. And this has factual basis, as shown by the U.S. Geological survey estimates and (partially) by the OPEC recognition of the large part of these reserves. As for the political purposes, I think one may be sure that the political leadership of any country that founds so much oil wealth would use it for political purposes, so this argument should be discarded unless there is some strong reason to be biased against Venezuela in this case. GreyHood Talk 00:15, 21 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
You've mentioned "OPEC recognition" several times. Do you have any reason to believe that OPEC does anything other than simply repeat the official proclamations of its member states? Dragons flight (talk) 02:12, 21 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Isn't the simple repeating of data enough recognition? International organisations usually haven't ability to full independent double-check of data, and so have to rely on the data provided by constituent countries. GreyHood Talk 02:41, 21 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Reported proven reserves for Venezuela (red) and Saudi Arabia (blue)
Comment. The graph at right shows the history of Venezuela's self-reported proven reserves. Maybe there is a legitimate reason for why the estimates have repeatedly jumped up in recent years after years of little movement, but it would be very unusual to have major oil discoveries year over year for a sustained period. It is entirely plausible that Venezuela has the world's largest reserves (based on the USGS findings), but as I imply above it seems at least as likely that the Chavez government simply revised the "proven" numbers upward because it was politically advantageous to do so. As discussed at oil reserves, the self-reported "proven reserves" for many OPEC countries are problematic. Dragons flight (talk) 02:12, 21 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I've already given a link to the BBC article which shows that according to the U.S. Geological Survey the increase of estimated recoverable reserves in Orinoco Belt is due to a much larger share of technically recoverable oil than thought before, not because of the large new discoveries. Also, I have a proposal to settle this whole issue in a simple way: let's reflect in the blurb that this is Venezuelan claim, and let's use the graph which you have created so kindly to illustrate the extraordinariness of the situation (though I don't think that something totally unexpected and unplausible has happened).
Suggested blurb: Venezuela claims to have overtaken Saudi Arabia as the world leader in proven oil reserves (recent growth pictured). GreyHood Talk 02:41, 21 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Political declarations, even not supported by real actions, have been featured on ITN so far, and this one is interesting and has a good ground behind it (personally I believe Venezuela might have made this announcement a year ago after the U.S. Geological Survey was published, but I think that they didn't do it that time because they feared it might negatively reflect the global oil prices, which was then too low in comparison with the levels at which the extraction of Venezuelan oil could be economically feasible). GreyHood Talk 02:41, 21 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Support - I think Greyhood's blurb is fine. Big news even if it is just Chavez spouting off, in that it shows intent by him to make a big claim... and this is a huge claim. Jusdafax 06:40, 21 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Half-hearted reservation: it seems that such data is more indicative of the scale of research rather than the (unknown) fact of how much black sticky stuff is actually there. That graph makes it look as though Saudi Arabia simply hasn't bothered looking much since 1987. Kevin McE (talk) 07:31, 21 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support - looks credible, and it is very important news (unfortunately, as we still heavily rely on oil). Crnorizec (talk) 08:57, 21 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Looks like the consensus has been done here, and it's ready for posting. I wonder what are John and Dragon flight trying to prove, but their point is more than obvious here, and I urge to stop manipulating with the relevance of the sourced estimate and the possible political background of it.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 10:23, 21 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 12:35, 21 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I have to say I still feel this one shouldn't be up. Have the supporters looked closely at the sources? The only source that is at all recent (less than one year old) is the al ahram article, a state-owned Egyptian newspaper, which is basically quoting Chavez. The only real further analysis the article provides is a mention that "exploiting most of it would be prohibitively expensive", which makes me wonder what's the point of having 'proven reserves'.--Johnsemlak (talk) 15:30, 21 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Here are hundreds of sources from the last 3 days. GreyHood Talk 15:42, 21 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Btw, searching through these sources I've found this interesting opinion about the bias of certain media towards Venezuela. There are some good points made. GreyHood Talk 15:58, 21 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I don't disagree or agree that there is bias in the media in whatever direction, except that it further emphasizes the need for reliable sources. Greyhood has provided a few more, but it should be said that they still aren't referenced in the article; and they all seem to be basically quoting Chavez. I certainly don't consider Chavez boasting about his country's resources to be a reliable source anymore than I would consider Obama to be a reliable source. Yes, Chavez's claims are backed by various US reports, but those seem to be old news. In terms of sources that document that this is in the news now, it's still thin.--Johnsemlak (talk) 17:10, 21 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support Greyhood's blurb. Ks0stm (T•C•G) 15:53, 21 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Mafia arrests

This looks pretty significant. Can't see a decent target article though. MickMacNee (talk) 16:02, 20 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Support - Seems significant enough; large-scale arrest of some large criminal families. As per nom, all it needs is an article.--WaltCip (talk) 16:35, 20 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Wait Too Much is uncertian lets give in a day or two. We dont actually know if they got the Leaders, let at least wait until the arraingment occurs. I am personally leaning toward support though The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 16:48, 20 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support Was coming to nominate this myself. Accoring to this article on Yahoo (which will depricate), 127 arrests. Grsz 11 18:40, 20 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Over 100 arrests sounds pretty significant, but I'd prefer to wait for more details to come out. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 19:34, 20 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Support This press release and this one from the justice department says they've charged mob associates and mob bosses alike. The list of indictments are here. Even if they caught nobody just charging them is big news internationally. Richard-of-Earth (talk) 21:11, 20 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I added a section American Mafia#2011 Crackdown. Currently a stub, but could be the target article. Richard-of-Earth (talk) 21:54, 20 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Not a chance. That article is full of BLP violations. The unsourced names of people apparently in the amfia is a lawsuit waiting to happen. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 23:17, 20 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Irish Dail dissolved, election called

Brian Cowen today announced he will request the dissolution of Parliament and call an election in Ireland. Strange Passerby (talk • contribs) 14:07, 20 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose - only requested, so it might not even happen.  狐 FOX  15:23, 20 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
If the Prime Minister calls an election, chances are that the "request" is just honorific. EricLeb01 (Page | Talk) 22:19, 20 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support - now it's on Reuters, with the election date announced; [30]

January 19

January 19, 2011 (2011-01-19) (Wednesday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

1 US service member was killed in Afghanistan. Spc. Joshua T. Lancaster

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9,400-year-old dog found, earliest found in Americas


[31]
I am nominating this article because researchers are saying they have found a bone fragment from what they are calling the earliest confirmed domesticated dog in the Americas. Which is historical, in my point of view. AJona1992 (talk) 21:25, 19 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



Its been accpted by The Journal of Physical Anthropology for publication, Which is one the highest quality journals for such discoveries. That being said I would like to Wait until its published as this could be a data stretcher or "just theory" with minimal evidence. The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 21:39, 19 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Our article dog says that DNA that distinguishes domesticated dogs from wolves existed at least 15,000 years ago (maybe 140,000: proof of that might be ITN worthy!), and cites a 2002 paper saying that they were in N America at least 8000BC (i.e. more than 10,000 years ago).  So the only thing that is new here seems to be discovery of bone fragments, not of new time-frames.  On those grounds, oppose. Kevin McE (talk) 21:50, 19 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I say it again, Waiting is best option until its actually published there could be very big implication if this person has the evidence to back things up. The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 22:58, 19 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Weak oppose. This doesn't seem to be the earliest, though it's really old. --Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 21:59, 19 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


  • Support The prior dates are surmises based on DNA evidence and the reconstruction of earlier cultures assumed to have had domesticated dogs.  The 8,000 BC date is not based on fossil evidence of a domesticated specimen.  This, if confirmed, is the earliest physical evidence.  It is certainly newsworthy on its own.μηδείς (talk) 23:29, 19 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Indeed its big if this indivdual has all the ducks in a row, I say wait until the article is published. This could be legit big stuff or it could be stretching the data. Until Its published we have a glorified Press release and no actual source for the article. The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 00:14, 20 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


I'd support the oldest domestic dog remains to be found. Is that what this is? If so, then I'd say it's worth posting when all the facts are published by a reputable journal. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts?   02:05, 20 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

As I read it, it is only the oldest bone fragment found in North America, not globally.  This, plus the fact that this fits within the already known time-scale of presence in that continent, and offers nothing new by suggesting that dog was a human food resource, leaves me entirely underwhelmed.  Nothing really new, no new knowledge, not in the news, so not In The News. Kevin McE (talk) 07:10, 20 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

In that case, oppose. Not really telling us anything new, but like I say, I'd support the oldest remains in the world. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts?   19:31, 20 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



15 and 60 dead in suicide attacks in Iraq


[32] --Perseus, Son of Zeus 18:36, 19 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



Support, but when article created.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 19:25, 19 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

2011 Iraq suicides. --Perseus, Son of Zeus 20:01, 19 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It's a start, but not nearly enough to base an ITN blurb on.  It's just a ref with no text. Jusdafax   20:03, 19 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I could zap that under CSD A3 if I were so inclined. Suggest expansion before a more trigger happy admin stumbles across it. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts?   20:06, 19 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

No need for deletion. I wonder how this could be well referenced without any prose.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 20:11, 19 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Wash post link is very annoying: [33]. --Perseus, Son of Zeus 20:28, 19 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Okay, I've expanded the article, and support posting, due to fairly high number of casualties, as well as it's been a while since the last attack, so they aren't exactly an every other week occurance anymore. C628 (talk) 00:12, 20 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Support since the article now exists and is decent.  Agree with C628 that this is newsworthy since the attacks are not as common these days in Iraq, and the deaths are on the high side. Jusdafax   05:56, 20 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Support, third day of attacks today killing another 48+. Clearly newsworthy. Strange Passerby (talk • contribs) 14:02, 20 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Oppose Unfortunately, this is all too commonplace in the Middle East to warrant notability. --Kitch (Talk : Contrib) 17:57, 20 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



wow, that article is pretty crap in its organisation. It wasnt ready for posting askin to the attack articles we usuall post.


The current days support on 2 articles are better,(Lihaas (talk) 20:03, 20 January 2011 (UTC));[reply]


2010–2011 Southern Africa floods


Floods in Southern Africa have killed at least 53 people and displaced nearly 20,000. Condition is worsening as further rains are expected to fall over the coming days. I just created the article so I'll be expanding it soon to make it better covered. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 19:53, 19 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



Update- Floods spreading to other countries and death toll upped to 54. Affected countries include South Africa, Mozambique, Zimbabwe, Namibia, Botswana, Zambia and Malawi (Seven countries). Cyclonebiskit (talk) 20:19, 19 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Support 53 people and 20,000 displaced. Good enough for ITN. --Perseus, Son of Zeus 19:58, 19 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Support as an international high-casualty flooding event. However I do not condone the use of "people affected" or "displaced" when the number is under 10 million. ~AH1(TCU) 01:05, 20 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Not to start a confrontation here, but, you are aware than 10 million affected/displaces persons seldom happens, right? Cyclonebiskit (talk) 01:46, 20 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

If it's rare, it could be becoming more common. My description fits both the 2010 Pakistan floods (20 million) and 2010 China floods (over 230 million). ~AH1(TCU) 21:56, 20 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



January 18



















    

        
January 18, 2011 (2011-01-18) (Tuesday)
        

        
    

    

                
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Magallanes conflict ends


[34] [35] Conflict between inhabitants of Magallanes Region and Chilean Government of Sebastián Piñera ends after agreement. Diego Grez (talk) 23:36, 18 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



  • The article, 2011 Magallanes protests, is ready. Please comment! :D Diego Grez (talk) 02:43, 19 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • 

  • What's the international notability of this event? Nergaal (talk) 05:41, 19 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

    • It's the largest series of protests in Chile for a good while. And, try to look for information on the protests, it's everywhere and is internationally notable. For a reason I posted two links :) Diego Grez (talk) 15:18, 19 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

      • I dunno. We (rightly) didn't post the student protests in London last month. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts?   16:24, 19 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

        • I dunno either... The result is that one minister got replaced and that an agreement was signed. Big issue for the country, no doubt, but doesn't seem that big on international scale (the last protests we've had on ITN were those in Tunisia and those were of a totally different level). --Tone 20:53, 19 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

          • I tend to lean towards oppose...it's certainly major on a local level, but it's not hugely significant even nationally, let alone WRT other countries. It's only one minister replaced as a result, so you can't really make an argument for it on the grounds of a major political shakeup, one minister does not a government make. And the stuff on the agreement (which I note lacks references) doesn't extend beyond local impact either. C628 (talk) 00:35, 20 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • 

  • Support. Does the "evacuation" and "kidnapping" of tourists count as international notability?  'Tourists, mostly from Argentina, Europe and North America, staged their own demonstration to complain about dwindling food, money and patience, with some saying they had been "kidnapped".' [...] "Kidnapped was the word most repeated in various languages," reported El Mercurio newspaper. The Red Cross has set up a shelter in a school for tourists who have run out of money.  Highways, airports and sea ports blocked. It seems to have been an extraordinary enough situation. --candle•wicke 22:03, 20 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Comment. International significance is not a criterion. Are the protests important or are they not? EricLeb01 (Page | Talk) 22:07, 20 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, they were. Diego Grez (talk) 23:02, 20 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Death of Sargent Shriver


Death of Sargent Shriver. [36] --Perseus, Son of Zeus 22:42, 18 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]




information Administrator note Would somebody care to update the article a little? Al we have currently is "Shriver died on January 18, 2011. He was 95". When, where and how would be nice, as would some quotes from leading figures in his field (POTUS maybe?). All you have to do is find a few good sources and filter out the wheat from the chaff if anybody fancies a Main Page credit for 10 minutes' work. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts?   02:24, 19 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



How's it now? Makeemlighter (talk) 03:31, 19 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Where an how would be nice, but it's early yet, so the details might not be known. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts?   03:34, 19 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I just added the Peace Corps' reaction too. I haven't seen any "how" yet, although he did suffer from Alzheimer's. As for "where", I definitely saw something that said he died at home surrounded by family, but (of course) I can't find it now. Makeemlighter (talk) 03:52, 19 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


  • Posted. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts?   03:38, 19 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • 

  • Query?  Have we changed the way we handle deaths?  The way I remember the rules being applied, a death almost always needed to be unexpected and/or the deceased needed to be actively engaged in public life at the time of his death.  In other words, for a death to make ITN it generally seemed that not just the person's life needed to be remarkable, but also the way in which they died.  Though Mr. Shriver's historical accomplishments are quite numerous, his death at age 95 after a long battle with Alzheimer's is not particularly remarkable.  Given that there was no opposition at all to posting this, I'm wondering if the standards have shifted?  Dragons flight (talk) 19:08, 19 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



Pakistani Earthquake


7.2 Earthquake strikes Southwestern Pakistan, [37] Its a big enough to have its own article and will have a decent deathtoll for ITN merit though it could be while before we have death toll The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 22:07, 18 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



I found 2011 Pakistan earthquake after a quick stroll through Special:NewPages. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts?   22:26, 18 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The Article is in great shape, I think its ready to post. The timer is 2 Days in the Red. I have a hard time seeing any one opposing a 7.2 in an Area like pakistan. If it was Japan maybe but building codes are low enough (or nonexistent) in Pakistan so its safe to says its will be a mess The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 22:33, 18 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



Comment  There were 7 stronger earthquakes in 2010 and about a half-dozen or so of equal magnitude.  Still, the impact on people is an important factor as well.--Johnsemlak (talk) 09:13, 20 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]




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January 17, 2011 (2011-01-17) (Monday)
        

        
    

    

                
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  • 39 people are killed in South Africa and thousands of homes are destroyed in Mozambique following widespread flooding. (Reuters)
    • 

  • Hundreds of people are hospitalised after an extreme cold spell in northern Vietnam that has also killed thousands of cows and buffaloes. (Straits Times)





                
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68th Golden Globe Awards



We don't normally post the Golden Globes (instead waiting for the Oscars). We already have 6 stories a year on films (according to WP:ITNR#Film); do we really need more? Modest Genius talk 17:09, 17 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Oppose - to many film events. - EugεnS¡m¡on(14) ® 17:15, 17 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



Oppose, if there was previous consensus in which only those 6 made the cut, I can't support this time 'round. And I do agree with the six that were chosen. Nightw 22:54, 17 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Comment On what basis is 6 recurring events about film per year enough, compared with a gazillion recurring events about sport, most of which are far less notable than the GG?--Johnsemlak (talk) 01:55, 18 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



Seven, if you count the Emmys. The Golden Globes are popular and significant, but it's an award ceremony which is second-class for awarding awards both to American television series and films. The four others under Film are highly renown international film festivals, and the BAFTAs is the top ceremony for British films (in the same way the Academy Awards ceremony is to North American films), so, essentially, every aspect is not left uncovered. Sports are different, though, because there are normally many equally-significant tournaments or matches played during the year, and most of the time, they attract international attention, unlike the Golden Globes. I think that should be a sufficient rationale not to ITN/R it. EricLeb01 (Page | Talk) 03:03, 18 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The Golden Globes attract significant international attention.  Also, I think there some areas still uncovered in film on ITN.  The Filmfare awards for example.--Johnsemlak (talk) 03:34, 18 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Well, that's another discussion. EricLeb01 (Page | Talk) 04:03, 18 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


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January 16, 2011 (2011-01-16) (Sunday)
        

        
    

    

                
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Sports








Southern Sudan referendum update



An update on a previous item now pushed well off the list.  The "preliminary analysis" refers to the sampling of a polling stations done by the Associated Press, which is a credible and unbiased observer.  (Given the 96-3 split, safe to say we needn't worry about margins of error from the sample.)  The nominated main link has been updated to reflect this information, but has one yellow-grade flag in play.  I'd suggest it might as well go up now, playing up the fresh "voting concluding" angle, but I'd understand others wanting to wait.  We won't have final results until February 14, which given the lopsidedness will be a bit of anticlimax. The Tom (talk) 21:21, 16 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


  • Slight oppose. I believe we had already decided on posting the beginning, the official tally, and whatever else that follows. Although I understand that this is very important vote, so I suppose it wouldn't hurt if it would go up. EricLeb01 (Page | Talk) 01:10, 17 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


strong oppose nothing final yet, the AP count was at a mere 10 stations and doesnt mean much. We dont go to ITN on trends, prelims results should be in a couple days/weeks with final results in Feb sometime (which is when itll really be INT)(Lihaas (talk) 02:28, 17 January 2011 (UTC)).[reply]


Wait for the final results. Nightw 03:19, 17 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Wait for the official results the preliminary result is stating the sky is blue. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 07:48, 17 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

or black - that would be pov to state ;)Lihaas (talk) 02:28, 17 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Wait. Previous consensus was three stories: the start of the referendum, the official announcement of the results, and actual independence. Modest Genius talk 17:11, 17 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


34,000 year old bacteria is alive



Lifecycle of bacteria not really comparable with that of higher organisms.  Asexual reproduction by division: which of the two resulting cells is the "baby", which is the pre-existing parent (and on that basis, can it be said that all existent bacteria are as ancient as the strain that the represent?)  In 1931 it was being said that bacteria "survived in the coal of untold ages".  Poor science, so oppose.  Kevin McE (talk) 18:26, 16 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Tentative Support I would support this for ITN if it were to recieve some additional coverage and if the publication in the geological society of America constitutes a peer-reviewed work or is followed up by a peer-reviewed publication.  Kevin McE's rational above is incorrect.  The bacteria were found mostly dormant, and had been continuously living for 34,000 years.  This is decidedly different from a strain of bacteria lasting eons.  Cellular division was not occuring in these bacteria becuase there was no available resources, and so the individual cells apparently shut down most cell functions aside - essential a hybrination.  The presence of the bacteria in the salt can be verified by simple microscopy techniques such as an SEM.  The presence of life was verified by awakening the bacteria and growing them in a culture.  The newly grown bacteria is, of course, not very old.  But for the egg to hatch it had to have been laid by a very very old chicken, so to speak.  So, in summary, I'd be willing to support this for ITN if we can find some additional news coverage and if there is an intention to publish the discovery in a peer-reviewed journal.  CoolMike (talk) 23:03, 17 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: GSA Today is peer-reviewed (at least the articles in their 'science articles' section); the paper can be accessed for free at [42]. I'm having a read of it now before deciding whether to support. Modest Genius talk 23:17, 17 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Weak support. Whilst this is extremely interesting, and is certainly good science, it doesn't seem to be a record. Vreeland et al claim to have cultivated a bacterium which was 250 million years old. That claim is disputed by some, and this study seems to have eliminated most of the possible problems. The problem is that this story them becomes 'oldest organisms for which the results can be reliably reproduced'. Modest Genius talk 01:11, 18 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Also, the micro-organisms in question were archaea, not bacteria. Modest Genius talk 02:42, 18 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Support per CoolMike's excellent comment. Diego Grez (talk) 02:36, 18 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Weak Oppose.  Old microbes aren't really that rare.  There have been many studies to extract viable cells from glacial ice older than 34kyr.  By some estimates ~10% of the intact prokaryote cells in ice cores of about 100 kyr in age are viable.  Recently, there was a claim to culture cells from Antarctic ice that was 3-8 Myr old.  The difference is that cells probably survive more easily in ice than in salt.  The low temperatures in the ice help inhibit spontaneous DNA damage, which means a cell should be able to persist in quasi-hibernation for a lot longer at low temperatures.  Culturing cells that were trapped in salt crystals is novel enough to be scientifically interesting, but it is certainly not the first time we've revived cells that were trapped and immobile for tens of thousands of years.  Dragons flight (talk) 02:15, 19 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



Qingdao Haiwan Bridge



Note: Longest bridge over water, not longest bridge. EricLeb01 (Page | Talk) 17:34, 16 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, but that is the technically difficult one. List of longest bridges in the world has ones that  are longer, but they are high-speed train tracks over land. Nergaal (talk) 17:51, 16 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I would have liked to support, but the key event is already more than a week ago, so already dropped off the bottom of the ITN timeline.  Is it too late to propose it for DYK?  Kevin McE (talk) 18:10, 16 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The article is too small to qualify for DYK; if it can be expanded 5x from what it is now then it can be nominated there. wackywace 18:13, 16 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Too late, I think. I support in principle (though surely a better article than that could be written?). The article and the one (!) source don't actually give a date for the opening, but I'll take Kevin McE's word that it was over a week ago. Modest Genius talk 17:14, 17 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Tunisia again


A fire in a jail kills at least 42 people. - [43] - EugεnS¡m¡on(14) ® 10:33, 16 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



Support. The deadliest individual incident there and 42 people is a lot of dead people. --candle•wicke 10:59, 16 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

1. what article?


2. is it related to the protests? (apparently, in this cae the article is already on the page)(Lihaas (talk) 12:33, 16 January 2011 (UTC));[reply]



Death of Nat Lofthouse


Bolton Wanderers and England football team legend Nat Lofthouse has died. [44] [45] doktorb wordsdeeds 09:25, 16 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



Oppose A long retirement of dignified quiet (more credit to him for it), and therefore no high profile for many years, and little or no international profile.  Well remembered by a previous generation, but not a holder of records or other major accolades.  Kevin McE (talk) 11:40, 16 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Oppose. Whilst he was certainly a famous footballer, he's wouldn't be in anyone's top 20 list. Modest Genius talk 16:30, 16 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


January 15



















    

        
January 15, 2011 (2011-01-15) (Saturday)
        

        
    

    

                
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2011 Dakar Rally




The 2011 Dakar Rally concludes in Buenos Aires, with Vladimir Chagin of Russia achieving the 7th victory on his Kamaz truck, thus becoming the most successful Dakar pilot so far.



Dakar is WP:ITN/R, so likely there would be no questions about publishing it in principle. The rally will officially end tomorrow, but the results are known already, and that's why I start the discussion now, to fill the day and to accelerate the posting if possible. As for the Russian driver part (image on the right), he is just one of the 4 champions of course, but his achievement is historical one. Also, I believe, he has set a number of other records, such as the total number of stages won, etc. GreyHood Talk 21:44, 15 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



Of course the trucks category is the least exciting, because Russian KAMAZ wins in this category almost all the time ;) That's how the records are made GreyHood Talk 22:02, 15 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



ITNR, so no need to support. But if it's going to conclude tomorrow, we should wait for the conclusion (there's an argument to be made if there's weeks in between the two eg. football leagues, but not here). Modest Genius talk 16:32, 16 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


So it did! My mistake. Modest Genius talk 16:41, 16 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



That's my mistake, sorry. Actually Stéphane Peterhansel is the most successful driver by total number of wins in Dakar: he won 6 times on a motorcycle and 3 times on a car. I've overlooked the fact that there was the same man in two different categories, and some of my sources deceived me. Hope Chagin can beat this record in the next few years... GreyHood Talk 02:29, 17 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  • I think we should use this blurb instead of the current one ("The 2011 Dakar Rally (route pictured) concludes in Buenos Aires"). The current blurb is too general and has too little information; it makes it sound like the rally concluded, and now they are trying to find out who won. Nanobear (talk) 01:29, 18 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


I support the blurb as is.  The route, currently pictured, is more interesting than the winners.--Johnsemlak (talk) 02:46, 18 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


January 14



















    

        
January 14, 2011 (2011-01-14) (Friday)
        

        
    

    

                
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International relations


  • Israel's Press Office apologises for what The Jerusalem Post dubbed "Bra-Gate" - the security screening of several international journalists forced to remove their underwear and denial of entry to Al Jazeera producer Najwan Simri Diab after she refused to remove her bra. Najwan Simri Diab says she did not wish for an apology, only to be assured that it won't happen again. (Sify) (The Jerusalem Post) (Ynetnews) (Al Jazeera)
    • 

  • Veteran Irish Labour Party TD Michael D. Higgins demands that the British government explain why one of Britain's undercover policemen was operating on Republic of Ireland territory on May Day 2004, as the European Union expanded to the east. Higgins compares it to illegal activities carried out by British state agents in the same country during the 1970s. (The Guardian)
    • 

  • A closed-door briefing occurs at New York City's United Nations building. Behind it around 150 non-American diplomats object to the American government about a decision by the country's banks to end services for diplomatic missions, with some diplomats suggesting the UN budget could be affected. (BBC)
    • 

  • Guyana formally recognizes Palestine as an independent state as part of its "long-standing and unwavering solidarity with, and commitment to, the just and legitimate aspirations of the people of Palestine for the exercise of their right to self-determination and to achieve a homeland of their own, independent, free, prosperous and at peace", a foreign ministry statement says. (Al Jazeera)
    • 

  • South Africa's chief rabbi Warren Goldstein criticises a controversial petition launched by three Jewish Capetonians calling for Archbishop Emeritus and Nobel Peace laureate Desmond Tutu to be axed as patron of two Holocaust centers. (IOL)
    • 

  • The Obama administration in the United States eases travel and other restrictions on Cuba. (ABC News)





                
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India stampede



Support. The Telegraph describes it as "one of India's most popular Hindu festivals" and says it "attracts between three and four million worshippers". More than 100 dead is also a lot of people. A disaster on this scale musn't happen very often either if the article can only compare it to this (63 people killed in a state at the opposite end of the country last March). Wikipedia has Sabarimala stampede (53 people killed exactly 11 years ago today). So perhaps that should be renamed 1999 Sabarimala stampede and maybe this should be started at 2011 Sabarimala stampede? --candle•wicke 23:14, 14 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Support Per reasons given above. Plus, we need a few additional items for ITN for tomorrow anyway, and this is a rather suitable event to report on. --Dorsal Axe 23:37, 14 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Support, but I think the article needs a bit more expansion. Makeemlighter (talk) 00:27, 15 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Support a major tragedy and worthy of putting on in the news section.Shyamsunder (talk) 08:58, 15 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


information Administrator note The article's a bit short. Would anybody care to flesh it out a bit? HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts?   16:13, 15 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]




Coup d'état or Revolution in Tunisia ?


  • Nominate President Ali's departure if the reports are true. Mohamed Ghannouchi is the new interim President. Scanlan (talk) 18:21, 14 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

    • Wait - this is a coup d'état — or a Revolution — under way. President fires Prime Minister. Prime Minister strikes back, puts President in a plane and proclaims himself President. People probably want to oust both President and Prime Minister. Anarchy everywhere. Classic. Probably a lot is going on right now, so please wait till the dust settles. Hektor (talk) 18:32, 14 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Support. @Hektor: I'm not aware of any evidence that the prime minister forced Ali to resign and leave the country. The PM wasn't exactly fired, the whole cabinet was dissolved and the PM was asked to form a new one (or so he claimed yesterday). And it'd be natural for Ben Ali to escape if he has no hope of restoring his rule and/or fears for his life. --Roentgenium111 (talk) 18:45, 14 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Support President steps down and Prime Minister is the interim President. In CNN & in BBC Essam Sharaf 19:07, 14 January 2011 (UTC)  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Essam Sharaf (talk • contribs) 



Tunisia national state of emergency


Tunisias president has declared national state of emergency within the last hour. With riots in Tunis.--BabbaQ (talk) 16:25, 14 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]




I am re-nominating this as new big developments has occured.--BabbaQ (talk) 16:25, 14 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This story will soon be posted by consensus in a earlier discussion of this subject. So closing this.--BabbaQ (talk) 17:57, 14 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Oldham East and Saddleworth by-election, 2011


A by-election in the UK which was heavily followed by the national media - not just on account of it being the first electoral test of the new government, but also because all main three parties had a conceivable shot at winning (based on previous results) - and represented a huge swing towards the Labour Party, despite it losing power a few months ago.  Their result is better than that achieved in the constituency at its 1997 landslide victory.  Therefore, for all reasons stated, this by-election is a hugely significant epitome of the state of British politics. 90.216.46.207 (talk) 02:41, 14 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]




I'm sceptical that this can be considered "mundane": the result is quite different from that achieved in 2010.  The Labour Party gained a majority in excess of its 1997 landslide, and the Conservative vote collapsed.  The by-election was heavily followed nationally, and the swift change in electoral fortunes for Labour, makes this quite notable, I contend. 90.216.46.207 (talk) 02:53, 14 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It is mundane. Labour had the seat, Labour now have the seat. Try writing a nice blurb on that.  狐 FOX  03:48, 14 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



Strong oppose. Minor by-election with no real consequences. (note: I'm British) Modest Genius talk 03:25, 14 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Strong oppose: how is this under any serious consideration?  We never include individual local representative elections, no difference to make-up of Govt, insignificant difference to parliamentary majority, entirely unscientific/unacademic as a poll of gvernment popularity (as though that were ITNworthy).  No meaningful effect to people in the constituency next door, yet alone nationally or internationally.  Kevin McE (talk) 07:04, 14 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Oppose per above. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 08:45, 14 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Oppose Insignificant, nationally and internationally. And if I weren't assuming good faith, I'd be inclined to suspect the nominator was from Labour Party Central Office. 87.112.177.117 (talk) 23:07, 14 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


January 13



















    

        
January 13, 2011 (2011-01-13) (Thursday)
        

        
    

    

                
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2010–2011 Tunisian protests


2010–2011 Tunisian protests
From Portal:Current events: "At least four people are killed in renewed unrest in Tunisia, hours after the lifting of a curfew.(Al Jazeera)"
This is surly relevant for ITN?




Reasons for notability of conflict.: 23-66 people dead (BBC News)



Dusk to dawn curfew in Tunis with suburbs http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12175959 When was the last time there was such a curfew in a capital. And a closure of all schools and universities in a country http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12155670?


Ben Ali the President steps down?! Will not seek reelection he says. http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/01/2011113192110570350.html--Alcea setosa (talk) 20:31, 13 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The demonstrations are causing massive unrest among the bourgeoisie of Arab world[ http://lynch.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2011/01/11/arab_regimes_on_edge with concerns of Domino Theory like scenario] So I support  assuming appropriate updates are made The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 21:15, 13 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I will try to update the article myself but I have no specific knowledge about Tunisia, the Arab world or even the French language. The only reason I try Is that it was not getting the attention it should here (as a  newsworthy headlines event).


Any help would be greatly appreciated.--Alcea setosa (talk) 23:56, 13 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



Support. Large-scale riots and government crackdowns in what was thought to be a stable country now attracting international condemnation. - BanyanTree 23:20, 13 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Oppose unless the situation has significantly worsened. We've already posted this. EricLeb01 (Page | Talk) 00:19, 14 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Oppose, since we already posted the ongoing protests. Modest Genius talk 00:34, 14 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Support now the state of emergency has been declared. The media's really jumped on this all of a sudden. Modest Genius talk 17:43, 14 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Support as the situation has significantly worsened and appears to be worse in Tunis (the capital) than it was before. Surely it is to Tunis and Tunisia what the recently reposted 2010–2011 Queensland floods is to Brisbane and Australia? They are both significantly  covered in the international media, both unusual events to be happening in these locations and the death tolls are even similar. --candle•wicke 02:38, 14 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Strong support - The main news on all news channels I can find and news media on the internet.--BabbaQ (talk) 16:13, 14 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Now we seem to have consensus. Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 17:55, 14 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The wording seems a little confusing, given that it's referring to a now-former president who has apparently fled the country. --Dorsal Axe 18:24, 14 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Rephrased. --BorgQueen (talk) 18:35, 14 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


South Korean foot and mouth disease outbreak



Support if any article updated or created. I think updating the article about the desease with creating an article about the epidemic in South Korea will be appropriate.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 19:31, 13 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

We have 2010 Japan foot-and-mouth outbreak, so probably just need to create 2010–2011 South Korea foot-and-mouth outbreak. --BorgQueen (talk) 19:59, 13 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The article about Japan is lack of information about South Korea, so definitely distinguishing in two different articles is necessary here.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 20:03, 13 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I could do that in 24 hours... but I need to get some sleep first :) --BorgQueen (talk) 20:06, 13 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Good night then.:) I'll try to do something.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 20:09, 13 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Support pending article creation. ~AH1(TCU) 00:43, 14 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The article has been created. Still a bit short; all are invited to contribute. --BorgQueen (talk) 11:18, 14 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Any objections? --BorgQueen (talk) 12:38, 14 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The article has been expanded a bit more. --BorgQueen (talk) 14:17, 14 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

support article looks good -- Ashish-g55 14:50, 14 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

We seem to have consensus. Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 15:26, 14 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Wikipedia 10th anniversary (Jan 15)


I've decided for the 10th anniversary that instead of running the normal featured article, I'm going to be running a featured list, topic, and sound (in a single blurb) -- see Wikipedia:Today's featured article/January 15, 2011. 


The discussion is going on at Talk:Main_Page#10th_Anniversary_FA and has been extremely positive. The FA blurb is going to be a bit (30-50%) longer than normal. In order to balance out the main page, what I want to do is put a message at the top of ITN in bigger-than-normal font:


Wikipedia turns 10 years old

along with some relevant image (either the Wikipedia globe, the number 10, or something else) 

I brought this up at Wikipedia_talk:In_the_news#Anniversary_stuff and Courcelles suggested I posted it here. Raul654 (talk) 02:33, 13 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]




How about having that sort of large item at the top on the actual day, then converting it into a regular bullet-point item and letting it move down the template as normal? Modest Genius talk 17:53, 13 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



I don't suppose there is still time to get Wikipedia up to FA status?--Chaser (talk) 05:41, 13 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Not a chance. The shortest featured article candidate to promotion ever was 4 days. Raul654 (talk) 18:00, 13 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Which one? Nergaal (talk) 20:32, 13 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

God, you're testing my memory here. I don't remember, but Sandy might. Raul654 (talk) 21:26, 13 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]




This is blatant IAR stuff. Support adding a Raul's text. We can bypass ITN's usual requirements, and mention it ourselves regardless of its objective importance. Modest Genius talk 23:56, 13 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

What's the blatant improvement to Wikipedia this implies then? Free beer I suppose. MickMacNee (talk) 00:34, 14 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]




Just this twice: there's the April Fools MP as well. Modest Genius talk 03:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


In the spirit of "it's 5 o'clock somewhere", could we leave up the ITN blurb as long as it is January 15th somewhere in the world? I'm not as concerned about having it up before dawn in China on January 15th, but keeping it up through at least the evening in the Americas and the Pacific seems logical.--Chaser (talk) 07:07, 14 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



  • Support per WP:IAR. It needs to be big, and noticable. Wikipedia rarely gets the opportunity to boast about itself, so I think it's fair to take advantage of this chance. As Raul654 said, it will aid in the main page design for tomorrow. Having looked at the mock ups, any mention in OTD certainly won't get noticed, and the altered featured content section will be jarring to readers if there is no explanation as to why it has changed. --Dorsal Axe 14:08, 14 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • 

  • Support per above. I don't see any harm. --BorgQueen (talk) 15:32, 14 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]




Climate in Sri Lanka


  • Temperatures in western Sri Lanka broke 61-year record low of 18 °C (64 °F), while more than 28,000 troops were deployed to relief over one million flood victims in other regions of the country.


Still haven't created an article for this, but could create one if anyone thinks it's a good entry.

Just about six months ago the country experienced record high temperatures as part of the 2010 Indian heatwave. Colombo is located just about 750 km (470 mi) north of the equator, and is a sea-level city, the average temperature is nearly always above 30 °C (86 °F). References: AdaDerana (local)

As for the floods, areas such as Batticaloa received a year's rainfall in 42 days. Batticaloa, also a +30°C area, recorded 16.9 °C (62 °F) temperatures. References: CNN, AdaDerana (local)

--Rehman 09:47, 13 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



  • Comment other than it needs an article - don't mention the temperature. I imagine a lot of people won't know where Sri Lanka is (in relation to the equator) and will just think "18? That's summer, here".  狐 FOX  13:56, 13 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


True. How about mentioning "tropical" somewhere? Would that help? Rehman 14:37, 13 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Weak support. The weather conditions are not extreme, but however it breaks a historical record.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 19:37, 13 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Comment. Nowadays, all-time record low national temperatures are set on the rate of roughly one per year. Last year, for example was when Guinea set a record just above freezing and Cuba late December set a low temperature a few degrees Celcius above freezing but broke no records. However, we almost never post national record high/low temperatures on ITN, and the only other instance I saw of a similar entry was one for Norway when a series of record-breaking (but in their own right) winter storms affected much of Europe last winter. However, I agree we need an article for the floods, where this temperature record can be mentioned. Perhaps something like 2010 Sri Lanka floods, including the effects experienced following Cyclone Jal. For this particular story though, the record low temperature in itself is nothing life-threatening, unlike some of the heatwave and winter storm stories such as 2010 Russian wildfires and February 5–6, 2010 North American blizzard we posted within the past year. ~AH1(TCU) 00:53, 14 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



January 12



















    

        
January 12, 2011 (2011-01-12) (Wednesday)
        

        
    

    

                
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Update on Wakefield


What are the thoughts here on continuing Andrew Wakefield ITN?  It's still very much a breaking story, with new allegations and revelations coming out daily.  I don't usually participate here, so I don't know how you all decide how long to run an item.  SandyGeorgia (Talk) 20:08, 12 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



At the minute, since it's the last item, it'll come off next time ITN is updated, which could be five minutes or five days, depending on the news and consensus. I've no opinion on whether Wakefield should be kept on, but it's not so old that it would look out of place if it were kept on an extra day or so. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts?   23:13, 12 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Thanks, HJ-- I just didn't know the procedure here, so thought I'd ask.  I see other ITN's getting substantially more page views, though. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 23:30, 12 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


If substantial news comes up, and the article is updated, feel free to poke here. Titoxd(?!? - cool stuff) 00:14, 13 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


It's a very notable story, with new aspects detailing the many parts of the "elaborate fraud" constantly coming out. A scam of high low caliber. Let's keep it out there so people can follow along with the development of the story. -- Brangifer (talk) 00:29, 13 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Those are continuations of the same development. There is a high bar for reposting an article to ITN (see the Queensland floods section below), so more details coming out doesn't cut it. Titoxd(?!? - cool stuff) 01:09, 13 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

You are saying that about a dozen of deaths and some material damage is more notable than this report? Nergaal (talk) 04:13, 13 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

As you know, that's not how ITN works. For reasons beyond our control, this happened before the floods. Thus, it went on ITN before the floods, thus it will almost certainly come off ITN before the floods, but if we aim to have a new item every 24 hours, both will have spent the same amount of time on ITN by the time they are respectively replaced. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts?   05:04, 13 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

FWIW, the Queensland floods have killed significantly more than a dozen (It seems that at least 40 people died in Grantham alone) but having said that, the main peak of the flood threatening Brisbane seems to have passed. It could be removed now IMO  (and I nominated it). -- Mattinbgn (talk) 22:19, 13 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


If something major happens, we can bump it. But at the moment I can see no reason to raise its position on the template. ITN lists items in chronological order. Modest Genius talk 17:59, 13 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Floods again, now Brazil


More than 220 people have been killed by flooding and mudslides in south-eastern Brazil. [48]




That's a blue-link stub now… Titoxd(?!? - cool stuff) 01:09, 13 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It's also a mini-stub. Maybe some of the people at WP:CSB would be interested in helping?--Peter cohen (talk) 02:35, 13 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I moved this to January 2011 Rio de Janeiro floods and mudslides to match the other Brazil flood articles. I've also expanded it a bit, but there isn't much information out there yet. The Portuguese Wikipedia seems to have some more info - and more sources - if anybody can read it. Makeemlighter (talk) 06:22, 13 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Support. I just expanded it. Not a stub anymore. I believe it meets inclusion criteria already. Missionary (talk) 06:34, 13 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



Support since the mudslide is another fatal disaster which causes deaths, so this is not only floods. It's a huge concern to see any disaster of this type with such fatalities in only two days.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 08:33, 13 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


This is the worst natural disaster in Brazil in four decades [49] ever Missionary (talk) 17:42, 13 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



Support in principle, but the article is still rather poor. Modest Genius talk 18:00, 13 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps the article is poor but it's already updated and very well covers the disaster. I think it's ready to be posted with only condolences added.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 19:34, 13 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


I added international condolences and other content; article now over 8 KB. Missionary (talk) 19:36, 13 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



After standardization of references, this article has more content than Iran Air Flight 277. Missionary (talk) 20:32, 13 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



Strong support. This is the deadliest flood so far in 2011, and more devastating than the April 2010 Rio de Janeiro floods and mudslides, which we posted. Article needs some revamping however, and the death toll is rising almost by the hour. Was at 482 at last check and many more missing. ~AH1(TCU) 00:56, 14 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



Update. More than 500 people have been killed. ~AH1(TCU) 03:07, 14 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Updating the number of fatalities is a good solution, though.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 10:34, 14 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Update. Now more than 610 people have been killed. GreyHood Talk 23:33, 15 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Update to ITN posted. Since this thread will be archived soon, any future needed updates to the blurb should be posted at WP:ERRORS. Titoxd(?!? - cool stuff) 09:24, 16 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Antimatter Thunderstorms


Scientist prove Thunderstorms eject mass streams of antimatter into space BBC The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 16:40, 12 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]




That would be a wholy unsuitable place for the update. It's hardly an important fact about antimatter. Updating thunderstorm or lightning to say that they produce antimatter would be far more sensible. Modest Genius talk


  • Support. It's always necessary to post scientific researches and proofs. This is also of great importance, since the antimatter is a current topic, which receives too much attention and is considered a base for future researches.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 08:39, 13 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


This is certainly interesting, though I'm not that surprised. I support in principle, but oppose for the moment, because as far as I can find no peer-reviewed paper exists. This was just a conference announcement, and anyone can say whatever they like at a conference. If a paper does exist and I just haven't found it, I'll change to support. Modest Genius talk 17:56, 13 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

One of the articles I was reading mentions its will will be published in Geophysical Research Letters shortly. (source didnt indicate how soon) The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 18:04, 13 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I did some further hunting, and R&D Mag says that the paper has been accepted by GRL. So I withdraw my objection. Modest Genius talk 18:12, 13 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



Support. Major discovery in geophysical quantum meteorology and of great significance. ~AH1(TCU) 00:57, 14 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Is 'geophysical quantum meteorology' even a real research field?!? Modest Genius talk 01:11, 14 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Not quite, but it could very well be emerging! ~AH1(TCU) 03:08, 14 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Is this ready to post? Ks0stm (T•C•G) 03:32, 14 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Support per above. This is just too interesting. It's a significant discovery, and science items are rarely featured in ITN. --Dorsal Axe 23:41, 14 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Can somebody add more details to the thunderstorm article, and provide a blurb? Titoxd(?!? - cool stuff) 23:44, 14 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]




  • A sentence about antimatter has been turned into a small paragraph in the Thunderstorm article.


I'm not exactly very inventive with this blurb and in fact have taken it right from the article, but nevertheless:


If too long, the first part can be changed just to "Scientists prove that..." (like The Resident Anthropologist has proposed initially). Also, I think that it would be rather nice to have some impressive picture of a thunderstorm (see right for example) on the Main Page on Wikipedia's birthday %). GreyHood Talk 01:00, 15 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



Damn, you beat me to it by seconds! HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts?   02:54, 15 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Lebanese government implodes


Hezballah quits the unity government over acusations of being responsible for the assassination of former premier Rafiq Hariri. CNN The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 16:18, 12 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



Support, once we have an article an a blurb. Thue | talk 18:12, 12 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Oppose.  This is an event that happens with regularity; not a news item. Nutmegger (talk) 21:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Governments don't collapse every day. I support. EricLeb01 (Page | Talk) 03:02, 13 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Obvious Support This is big news. Fixman (talk!) 04:08, 13 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Support, but the above news doesn't cover the issue correctly. I suggest this one instead:

Lebanese coalition government falls as Hezbollah and allies quit quit.[50] Because there are many other parties beside Hezbollah such as Free Patriotic Movement, who oppose Hariri government. --Seyyed(t-c) 04:40, 13 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Support. It might be nice to get the Hariri article into the blurb too. Modest Genius talk 17:57, 13 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The article has to be updated first. --BorgQueen (talk) 23:45, 14 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Im updating the Lebanese government of November 2009 article.


update done: and for the record mst obvious support, dont see how this is recurrent stuff.(Lihaas (talk) 04:44, 15 January 2011 (UTC));[reply]


Support as governments falling are usually notable enough for the Main Page. Is there any other reason for delay if the article has been sufficiently updated? --candle•wicke 06:34, 15 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Can we get an updated blurb? Titoxd(?!? - cool stuff) 06:37, 15 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Options:


March 14 alliance-led Lebanese coalition government falls after the opposition allies withdraw support.


Saad Hariri-led Lebanese government falls after the opposition allies withdraw support.Lihaas (talk) 04:44, 15 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Posted. --BorgQueen (talk) 12:24, 15 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Earliest known winery



--RaffiKojian (talk) 00:16, 12 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]




Timer's red and this has better support than anything else, but is there an article? HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts?   00:08, 13 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



History of wine. The lede has a mention of Armenia, as does the early history section. Makeemlighter (talk) 00:39, 13 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I cleaned that section up a bit, but the article as a whole probably needs more work. Makeemlighter (talk) 01:03, 13 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



January 11



















    

        
January 11, 2011 (2011-01-11) (Tuesday)
        

        
    

    

                
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7 billion people


  • I've seen various news agencies announcing that the population will pass 7bn in the next few months. This shouldn't be posted now, but do you guys have a good idea when it should? Nergaal (talk) 23:16, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


I assume the relevant UN agency will make an announcement, and that's what the media will take as their cue. Modest Genius talk 00:19, 12 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The United Nations Population Division, a section of UNDESA. I think they've predicted that it will pass the mark anytime between late-2011 and mid-2012. Not until at least the second half of 2011, and even then, they're just going off estimates. It may have passed the mark a long time ago, it may just as easily be a long way off. Nightw 04:51, 12 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Latif Khosa appointed Governor of Punjab, Pakistan


He is appointed after ex governor Salman Taseer assasinated last week.
--Saqib Qayyum (talk) 17:38, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]




Oppose - this is just fallout from the assassination, which we already posted. And I seriously doubt this would go through in any normal circumstance either. Modest Genius talk 00:20, 12 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Definitely oppose - this is solidy local/regional news and doesn't meet the criteria to be posted on ITN. Mar4d (talk) 07:16, 12 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Chengdu J-20 first flight


Hopefully this is an easy SUPPORT. China's first fifth generation stealth fighter comparable to the US F-22 and Russia PAK FA made its first flight hours ago. Very closely watched story on the press and militaries worldwide.Amraamny (talk) 06:23, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
The Post: Chinese stealth fighter makes first test flight http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/11/AR2011011100300.html[reply]




I guess this one is ready to post. I'm having some problems with formulating a good blurb... --Tone 10:24, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

How about: The People's Republic of China's Chengdu J-20, a fifth generation stealth fighter aircraft prototype, makes its first flight. --BorgQueen (talk) 10:33, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds good.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 10:35, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Posting. --Tone 10:48, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



2010–2011 Queensland floods



Yes, this article has already had a run on ITN but matters have taken on a much more grave tone now. There could be up to 70 deaths alone on 10 January and the major city of Brisbane (pop >2m) is expected to be inundated. -- Mattinbgn (talk) 03:37, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



(edit conflict) Strong support: This has worsened considerably, and has now reached the capital. Brisbane suburbs are being told to evacuate (ABC). Over 70 people are missing, 8 confirmed dead (ABC). This is huge for Australia, which is used to decades of drought. Nightw 03:37, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Support per all of the above. --Mkativerata (talk) 03:44, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Support per above. Melicans (talk, contributions) 03:54, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Wait - I do agree that this is a different event to the rising flood waters further north, which were on the front page 1-2 weeks ago (this is a flash flood rather than slowly rising rivers). But I don't think 8 deaths is world front page material yet. As I understand it, only one Brisbane suburb has been told to evacuate. Hopefully Brisbane will survive relatively well, and most or all of the 70 missing in Toowoomba are OK, and there'll be no reason to put it on the front page.  Adpete (talk) 04:19, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Just to clarify: the total death toll is 19 so far. The 8 were just those that died yesterday. Nightw 04:27, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


(ec)13 dead in the flash flood alone now and the PM—who I assume has been well briefed— has said "The nation needs to brace itself for the fact… the death toll is likely to rise. I hope it turns out to not be as disastrous as feared too but it is already pretty horrific. -- Mattinbgn (talk) 04:29, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

After reading the guidelines at Wikipedia:In the news I'm now Change to cautious support. Perhaps I'm showing regional bias (I'm Australian but the other side of the country from the floods), but there's clearly going to be great interest in Australia about this (one of the criteria at Wikipedia:In the news), even if not much elsewhere. Adpete (talk) 05:03, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



I understand and respect your point of view but I would make two points. 1. The flash flood is actually a second event caused by a separate rain event. It is included in the main flood article more for convenience sake and certainly could support a stand alone article. 2. If I could turn back time, I would have preferred that the article wasn't listed on ITN initially as it was probably marginal in terms of global significance. However, the events of yesterday, today and the rest of the week most certainly would be. -- Mattinbgn (talk) 09:24, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Given the Toowoomba flash flood as a separate disaster with reportedly 9 deaths and 66 missed is still not sufficient for the ITN template, and I would rather wait, but using the whole disaster in Queensland to induce its significance as the blurb states above associates to the previously posted report. If you distinguish it from the Queensland floods in a new blurb (separating in new article is not intended) and then try to get traction and support, could somehow change my opinion to wait and see how it continues and receives more global coverage and attention. Anyway I doubt this would really become enough sufficient to be posted as a separate disaster.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 10:19, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

If them's the rules, then them's the rules and I'm happy to defer to the experts here. It just strikes me as strange that the flood event was suitable for inclusion when it was little more than an (rather large) inconvenience to a range of small towns and minor cities but no longer meets the criteria when it has turned rather deadly and will see large chunks of a city of 2m underwater. Cheers, Mattinbgn (talk) 10:36, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Support Keeping a big ongoing and evolving event ITN is fine with me. Thue | talk 10:37, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Strong Support for posting as soon as the article is updated.  Brisbane, Australia's third largest city, is being evacuated.  Let's quit the bickering over rubbish sports stories and get this up ASAP.--Johnsemlak (talk) 16:07, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



Ok, I agree with rationale for posting. However, there are several issues with the article. First, the boxes on top. Then, the sections that need expansion. Third, since when do we include the list of casualties with extensive details in the articles about catastrophes? --Tone 16:15, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


ITN should never include items that maintenance tags on them. RxS (talk) 16:19, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I don't dispute that.  My (strong support) is conditional on it being fixed, but I do feel it has priority.--Johnsemlak (talk) 16:39, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Brisbane was hit by the floods earlier and many people were evacuated before the Toowoomba flash flood. As I noted above, keeping an ongoing event which was previously posted or separately posting its aftermath is not intended. The only thing which could be done is to update the posted blurb, which currently is gone.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 16:47, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

There was some minor flooding but to claim Brisbane was "hit by the floods" is a bit of an exaggeration. The scale of the earlier floods in Brisbane was insignificant compared to Rockhampton, Bundaberg, Dalby et al and barely worth mentioning compared to what happened yesterday and will continue to happen over the next three days. -- Mattinbgn (talk) 20:23, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry if I got it wrong. I don't live in Australia and I used the reports claiming that the evacuation continues and becomes more massive after the most recent flash flood. Regards.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 20:33, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Strong Support this is comparable to Hurricane Katrina in Scale. But We can't post until Matience tags and the WP:MEMORIAL section is zapped. The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 17:47, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


  • What would be a proposed blurb? There are still yellow-level tags on the article, but all orange-level and red-level tags are gone. Titoxd(?!? - cool stuff) 18:29, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

    • 

  • Oppose per Kiril and Nergaal. I understand, though, that the event is of much importance to Australians and perhaps of more interest to the wider Anglophone world. But still it has quite a low death toll and has been already posted, even if the new phase of flooding is somewhat separate development. If this has to be posted due to a massive support here, I strongly suggest that the blurb should reflect the new quality of the flood, that is the fact that it has reached Brisbane, the capital of Queensland. Simply reporting more deaths and more people affected won't do any good for the ITN. GreyHood Talk 21:18, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Anybody care to suggest a blurb with the focus on more recent events rather than the (comparatively small, though still tragic) death toll? HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts?   21:30, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



Evac of brisbane seems significant. The 8 deaths above only represnts the inland tsunami incident The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 21:35, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



The picture for this item makes absolutely no sense (the wheel of brisbane to show floods?), but I don't have any better suggestions? Any ideas? SpencerT♦C 01:05, 13 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



Didn't see the floodwaters at the base. But still, it's not the best picture to show flooding. SpencerT♦C 01:07, 13 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Kepler-10b



-- Rehman 01:58, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



  • Neutral I am normally a strong supporter of these discoveries, but this one in specific does not really raise the threshold that much. Just take a look at Super-Earth. It orbits a Sun-like star at under 0.02 AU - compared to Mercury at ~0.4AU. Nergaal (talk) 02:31, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Neutral Oppose. Certainly news in astronomy circles, but nowhere near as big as Gliese 581g was (and the controversy surrounding it...). This is incremental, not revolutionary; it's an impressive piece of work, with exquisite sensitivity, but the results are hardly surprising. Edit: This is a conference announcement, and as far as I can tell no paper has been published. The article also has unreferenced sections, and a slew of synthesis ('significance'). Modest Genius talk 02:47, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


oppose I trust ModestGenius's judgement on this as the issues he raises are redflags of conference stumping. The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 18:30, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Comment: Kepler-10b is NOT the smallest exoplanet discovered. This title belongs to a pulsar planet, which is much smaller than Earth. And even among "normal" planets, Gliese 581e is likely smaller, since it is much lighter.--Roentgenium111 (talk) 15:28, 13 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


January 10



















    

        
January 10, 2011 (2011-01-10) (Monday)
        

        
    

    

                
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Arts and culture






                
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2010 FIFA Ballon d'Or



Now that the FIFA World Footballer of the Year has been merged with the Ballon d'Or, the combined FIFA Ballon d'Or is now the undisputed highest individual award in the world sport of football (that's soccerball to you college hand-egg fans). Of obvious international interest and ITN level notability. MickMacNee (talk) 21:05, 10 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



Support clearly notable. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 21:21, 10 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Support - I know little about the sport, indeed.  I assume Mick knows what he's talking about, and hence support. Jusdafax   21:24, 10 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Support - More notable than the college hand-egg alternative.--WaltCip (talk) 21:30, 10 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Support. highest individual award in football. Modest Genius talk 21:39, 10 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Meh, dunno.  Football is a team sport.  We should post team accomplishments instead IMO.  We don't normally support 'best player' awards in any sport. But this is pretty big.--Johnsemlak (talk) 21:48, 10 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Oppose I dont really see what seperates this from the various "sportsman of the year" awards that were released during the New Year, of which none were put on ITN if I believe. I suppose if there is an award for basketball we will put it up? It's an international sport... --PlasmaTwa2 22:20, 10 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Support in principle but the award article could do with more prose and this award is hidden somewhere between everything Messi was awarded so far... --Tone 23:16, 10 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Support Football, not American version, IS the most popular professional sport worldwide. Nergaal (talk) 23:19, 10 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Oppose: a vote, not the result of a sporting contest, and entirely incidental to a team sport.  Article informs the reader of almost nothing in terms of who was able to vote, how the shortlist was selected etc etc  Kevin McE (talk) 00:02, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Question: Is this as big of a deal in the soccer world as the Heisman Trophy is in America? If I were to stop a random soccer fan and ask him who's won the most Ballons d'Or, would he know? (Any American football fan can tell you the only person to win two Heismans.) If I named a random soccer star, would a fan be able to say whether he won a Ballon d'Or? If the answer is no, I oppose, and if the answer is yes, I oppose anyway, WP:POINT notwithstanding, on the grounds that it's dismissive of our readership to include this award and not the Heisman, which receives more attention than any other individual sports award in the English-speaking world. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 00:07, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Archie Griffin is in a statistical set of one - there's him, and the rest. That's not hard to remember. It's not comparable to expecting someone to know that Cruyff, Platini, van Basten have won the Ballon the most at 3 times each, with a further 6 players on 2 awards each. You'd have to think of an award in gridiron whose cumulative total is similar to that, to get an idea of what this is. But suffice to say, those three players are household names across Europe, even to non fans. Even winning this just once, means that you are more than just a 'random soccer star'. And I'd say the Heisman gets zero attention in the UK btw, whereas this is being covered by all the US networks (this was top result on Google.com just this second for 'Messi' in news), so it's not exactly apples and oranges if you are looking for a both or nothing deal here in that regard. MickMacNee (talk) 02:22, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

What is a Heisman trophy? Have you asked a random person from England or Australia what is that trophy?  Nergaal (talk) 02:33, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

What's a Ballon d'Or? Lemme ask my Korean friends. They might think it's something that floats. –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 02:34, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Do they read the English wikipedia? Nergaal (talk) 03:04, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Well I certainly won't be having Korean friends if we can't talk to each other. –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 03:16, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Most American football fans could easily name four or five of the past six Heisman winners (Tebow, Ingram, Newton and Bush are easy). The point I'm making is there's an aura to the Heisman Trophy that is unique from any other individual award that I know of in a team sport. Just do a Google Image Search for "Heisman pose". How many other trophies are so well-known that there's a meme of people (including the president of the U.S.) imitating the guy on it? (I don't even know what the NFL, MLB or NBA MVP trophies look like.) Is there that kind of mystique to the Ballon d'Or? -- Mwalcoff (talk) 03:08, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Are you really asking if people imitate this trophy? That's a hard job, even for the most dedicated performance artist. If this trophy has an 'aura', it's not because of silly things like people imitate the guy on it, it's because it is basically a list of the greatest players of their time, and that has all the 'aura' you would expect it to have in the greatest sport in the world. MickMacNee (talk) 14:48, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


A few months/weeks ago, there was a debate on who should win this (I don't remember such a spirited debate on the previous years), it was Messi and another guy. However, football and European sports in general are focused on teams, not individuals. As far as I know there still is no "official" FA Cup Final man of the match. It was only lately they started focusing on individual awards. –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 03:16, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

That might have been true in the Olden Times of Yore, but for good or for bad, the yank tradition of giving out MVPs and the like for teams sports is now well established in soccerball (and I don't know why people are even making this point, college handegg is still a team sport right?). It's imho pretty far fetched to claim that in the olden days soccerball was only focussed on teams though, nobody remembers Pele or Maradonna because they were awesome team players. Nowadays, that recognition is not just cultural, it is also done through personal awards, and since the merger, this one is now pretty much it in terms of the definitive trophy. MickMacNee (talk) 14:48, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Actually there could've been individual awards before, like the golden ball and their equivalents, just that you'd have to do something -- like score the most goals in a tournament -- rather than say, win a poll (LOL this is what the BCS is). Pele or Maradona were remembered chiefly for being on great players on great teams. Everyone, even American non-soccer followers, knows Pele. George Best, not as much (Pele is a very high standard anyway). If that's for better or for worse that's outside of ITN's scope. –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 15:16, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


The point I am trying to make is that there are waaay more football fans then that of American football. The award having an aura does not make it more prestigious than an award given for a more popular sport, with more fans and more players to choose from worldwide. Nergaal (talk) 03:20, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I guess the "other" point is this is not a that-followed award in football. In a random pick, it's not even mentioned in the prose of the Franz Beckenbauer article. –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 03:24, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Yes it is, it appears in the lede, given equal standing alongside his 103 international caps and appearances in 3 World Cups as a player. The term 'European Footballer of the Year' is the English alternative for its French name, the Ballon d'Or. MickMacNee (talk) 15:08, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Well the lede is supposed to be a summary, which means it should be mentioned somewhere else in article. (I was going to comment on something else, but I got confused with Beckenbauer's 1976 award, being merged with the supposedly now-defunct FIFA's award to this new(!) award.) –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 15:16, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Support, clearly notable, with it being the highest award given to an individual in the most played and most watched sport in the world. Nightw 03:31, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Oppose We didn't feature a sportsman of the year selection from among all of the world's athletes, across all sports, nor should we. Same for this. Grsz 11 05:36, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Was that even nominated? Nergaal (talk) 06:56, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

You mean the grossly  Eurocentric Laureus World Sports Awards? :P –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 06:29, 13 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


As far as I know, it's only elections where we take such a blanket view on what should and should not get posted. We will never be posting the World Player of the Year of Table Tennis, but that really has got sod all to do with the merits of this nomination. MickMacNee (talk) 14:48, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



Suggestion


Let's include both the Ballon d'Or and the BCS game results and then everyone's happy, more or less. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 03:25, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



Come on, do you really think they'd allow the BCS to be there? :P –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 03:32, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

That would suggest that the 'beautiful game' is comparable to some backwater, improperly named junior game from America. Can't have that, no sir. --PlasmaTwa2 06:34, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



The Heisman award is significant only for the United States and in spite of its media coverage it receives attention in only one country, unlike The Ballon d'Or which is significant worldwide.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 10:47, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


I'll support this if you can show me that the BBC reported the winner of the Heisman. I've shown above that major American networks report the winner of this trophy. MickMacNee (talk) 14:48, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This is not the BBC, but the awarding of the Heisman was reported in a Singaporean newspaper (the same newspaper reported the FIFA award, too). –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 15:48, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Oppose. We're not in the business of quid pro quo. Each item should be assessed on its own merits, not horse-traded against others. Modest Genius talk 00:23, 12 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Oppose per Modest Genius.  Once we start down a road of swapping rights to post at ITN, the result will be chaos and possibly removal of the feature.  Not the way to go. Jusdafax   00:38, 12 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Tom DeLay sentenced to three years


Tom DeLay, ex-U.S. House Majority Leader sentenced to three years... for a U.S. pol of this magnitude, this is a lot.  We did have a blurb when he was convicted, but this merits another, in my view. Article on DeLay appears to be updated. New York Times Jusdafax   20:57, 10 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



Support this is a really big deal. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 21:21, 10 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Oppose as it was already posted. The story now is the "3 years" part, which is not extraordinary to warrant ITN presence. I think any future Republican president will probably pardon him anyways. Nergaal (talk) 23:30, 10 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Was it posted? I don't see an ITN tag on its talk page. --BorgQueen (talk) 00:20, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I put it up.[53] Apologies for neglecting the tag on the talk page. --Mkativerata (talk) 00:25, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Oppose, since there doesn't seem to be anything surprising about 3 years, given the conviction. Modest Genius talk 00:28, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Agree, I don't think we need another DeLay entry. (Oppose) -- Mwalcoff (talk) 00:31, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


2011 BCS National Championship Game


The championship game to determine the NCAA Division I football champions will be played tonight in Arizona between the Auburn Tigers and the Oregon Ducks. I think it would be a good idea to start the debate, yelling and accusations of American bias beforehand so we can be in a good position by the time the game ends. This is a major sporting event in the States and will be followed by more people than the NBA or NHL finals. It is also important to note that the winning team will go undefeated if they win tonight, which could be added to any potential blurb. --PlasmaTwa2 19:58, 10 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



  • Oppose. Not a professional league, of no real general interest outside N. America, and not even a sport with major international interest at the professional level by any stretch imagination. To post this is would be a perfect example of the Bad Kind of systemic bias. I think we should be considering posting the result of the annual Wembley NFL game before ever considering posting this as being of any kind of ITN level of notability. MickMacNee (talk) 21:05, 10 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



Strong oppose. Not a professional league, the participants are chosen by computer and rankings in various polls rather than results and on-field performance, and at the end of the day this is a student competition. If we posted this we would be setting a precedent to post all the NCAA student championships, which would be a bad thing IMO. For all sports which are only popular in one or two countries we only ever post one story per year; I don't see why american football should be treated any differently. Finally, mere audience numbers do NOT determine what we should post - if it did, we'd have a never ending stream of TV 'talent' shows and wrestling. I'm also sceptical that the worldwide audience for this game is higher than the worldwide audience for either the NHL or NBA finals, both of which are sports which are popular in many other nations. Modest Genius talk 21:49, 10 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Support it may be a rubbish sport, but American football is very popular in the US, who make up a substantial proportion of the audience. Giving it more than one story a year doesn't seem unreasonable. Just because we post this doesn't mean we can't post other non-US stories. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 23:08, 10 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


I support the BCS in principle but I think this is not the same BCS... (no serious opinion otherwise, I'd just think Super Bowl was enough, maybe?) --Tone 23:16, 10 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



That's one of the most random hatnotes I've ever seen. Who would possibly confuse the two? Modest Genius talk 23:36, 10 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


  • Oppose per MG. Nergaal (talk) 23:28, 10 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • 

  • Support. Ah, it wouldn't be January without the annual BCS debate! Anyway, the same things as last year and the year before that -- college football is a religion in much of America. This is the second- or third-biggest annual sporting event in America. You can't make blanket statements about sports like "professional is bigger than amateur" or "international is bigger than domestic." Minor League Baseball is fully professional and international, but is no big deal, while big-time college football and basketball are huge. Take a look at the front page of the Eugene, Oregon, paper today, the day of the game. It doesn't matter how many countries a sport is popular in; it matters how many people, particularly readers, are interested in it, and American football has got to be the second-most-popular sport among English Wikipedia readers behind soccer. If America was divided into little bitty countries like Europe is, this would be big in 50 countries. And (to address Modest Genius's concern) everyone who follows American sports knows there are only two big-time college sports: football and men's basketball. All others are either minor spectator sports (college baseball, lacrosse, women's basketball) or are exclusively participatory sports with few real "fans." -- Mwalcoff (talk) 00:03, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

    • If you start dividing the European countries into subcountries that are between 37 million and 300k people, then, you will get almost 100 countries. The only annual event in soccer that gets posted is the Champions League final one and possibly the player of the year award. I don't see why the football that is nob played with your feet should get more than half of those ITNR spots. Nergaal (talk) 02:44, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



Err, you might like to actually look at Wikipedia:ITNR#Football_.28Association.29. None of those leagues are listed. Modest Genius talk 03:15, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Check out Wikipedia talk:In the news/Recurring items/Archive 2#A proposal for domestic leagues. –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 03:19, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

That was more than a year ago. Nergaal (talk) 03:22, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hence "there was an..." (For the record I'd support one bullet point for every league when the champions are known.) –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 03:26, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



Oppose, this isn't a professional sporting event. It's child's play, literally, and of no interest to anyone outside the U.S. Popularity does not determine notability. Nightw 03:25, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

 I don't think Nick Fairley would appreciate you calling him a child. Anyway, it bears pointing out that we had the Gaelic football championship, and that's both fully amateur and of interest to a lot fewer people than the BCS championship. And when it comes to sports, there's little difference between popularity and notability. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 03:28, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



Strong oppose. First, the sport is not widely popular. Second, it is not the highest-level league. Third and final, if we should post this, we must post every low-level league ends, which is not intended in the ITN template.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 11:05, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Comment. The Super Bowl is enough for this sport in the ITN template.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 11:08, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It could be argued by some that college football is a different game than the NFL. --PlasmaTwa2 16:16, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I've got it in mind. If you regard it as a distinct game, then the power snooker is distinct from snooker. Considering the every college rules of the game as a new game, you can easily reach thousands of new sports. However, either it is American football or not, it is popular in only one country, and the popularity in that country is pointless here.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 16:39, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe, but power snooker does not have the popularity of college football. You're comparing apples to oranges. Also, this entire "it is only popular in one country" argument holds no weight because American college football is roughly as popular (if notmore so) as soccer in Canada. So, if I understand the term "international", the popularity of this game achieves it. And don't claim some dumb argument like "the popularity in that country is pointless here." That just makes you sound stuck up. --PlasmaTwa2 16:47, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

First, I urge you to remain civil in this discussion, and second, even if it is popular in Canada outside the United States, it's still not sufficient. Can you again prove how this is popular enough to be posted in the ITN template? We omit to post events which cause death toll and somehow shake whole regions. So posting a mixed sport for kids is off-topic here.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 17:25, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


P.S. More comprehensive, how this report affects the world today? I doubt that somebody outside Canada and the United States have ever heard about such sport. It is 6.5 billion people or app. 95% of the world's population who live in other continents. I also suggest you to nominate this for the ITN sections on other portals, such as North America, American football, or Canadian football.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 17:41, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Kiril that line of argument could be used against virtually any sports event save the World Cup and the Olympics.  ITN notability is not such a high standard that the event must affect more than 5% of the world's population, or 1%, or whatever.  Many ITN items matter to people of a limited geographic area.--Johnsemlak (talk) 17:49, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Very well said, but in wrong direction. Please tell me which posted events you think affect only a limited geographical area, and I will prove you otherwise.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 18:25, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


It really isn't up to one person to decide what is sufficient to meet the international "guideline" on ITN, especially when we have included such items as Gaelic football - a sport with maybe a few million followers. A sport that is very popular in a nation of 300+ people and somewhat popular in a nation of 35 million is somehow not notable enough for ITN when ITNR lists approximately five different items for rugby each year, including the Tri Nations which includes three nations of a combined population under 100 million and is not the "highest level of play" in the sport. Calling college football a "mixed sport for kids" shows a complete lack of respect and knowledge for the sport and its players, and I'm sure others who are more knowledgeable about the sport could provide evidence to debunk that belief a lot better than I can. Citing events that cause deaths and other catastrophies is off-topic, as is mentioning Canadian football which is a completely different sport, played in a different part of the world and has no connection to this item. Can you give a good reason why this should be left off, other than it is American-centric? --PlasmaTwa2 18:10, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I did not try to introduce new criterion, and please don't play with my previously said words. Since you mention other sports which are recurring items for the ITN template, I must redirect you to the WP:ITN/R where you can find the whole list of recurring items, and you can nominate also this as something which should be included. Your last comment would be more appropriate there.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 18:25, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

That's all well and good, but we are not here for that. We are here to discuss whether or not this game should be included this year. I am completely well aware of ITNR, having contributed to its creation, so please don't be so condensending. As it stands, you asked me to explain how this game is popular enough to be on ITN, and I did so. I asked you to come up with an argument against this that is not based around American-centrism. --PlasmaTwa2 18:35, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I think I was also clear. I'm not somebody against the American things and don't have any intention to be. So I will utter once again the all things, why I think it's not sufficient enough, and thereby why I voted with "strong oppose":

  • no global media coverage;
    • 

  • not a professional sport;
    • 

  • popular in small part of the world;
    • 

  • not a recurring item (conditionally, since I have low regard to the list though I must respect it).


Best regards.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 18:51, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Don't wanna intervene on this discussion, but the U.S. and Canada are certainly not a "small part of the world". Also, for someone who cited WP:ITNR you might have a wrong idea how that thing works. –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 18:58, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Several people object on the basis that it isn't a professional sport.  Does that mean that the Olympics were non-notable before the late 1980s?  This seems to be an argument that is cherry-picked to object to American college sports.--Johnsemlak (talk) 09:41, 12 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



John at the Olympic Games before 1988 every sport was recognized as professional (had amateur and professional players), though the participants weren't those who earn money but those who didn't. Before the players started earning money, there was no professionalism in its current definition. Claiming that if the players are not professionals, the sport is not professional and thereby the Olympics are not professional and non-notable is easily refutable. You don't have to prove that the Bowl Championship Series is a professional league, but to prove that there is any college football league that is professional.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 17:59, 12 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Yeah, yeah, we're all anti-American. We know the bit. Nightw 15:43, 12 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Meh. Game's over. People won't be interested now, although they were interested yesterday -- it has higher page views all of the ITN items singly. If ever this didn't need the help of ITN to get page views. –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 16:35, 12 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


ETA's new ceasefire


Basque separatist armed organisation ETA declares a permanent ceasefire towards an end to its conflict with Spain




Let's wait a bit. The last time we posted the ceasefire from ETA was in September last year. But, if it's permanent, that would be the last one to post... --Tone 12:07, 10 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Well the BBC in September said it was unclear whether it was permanent or temporary. It looks like it will be permanent. The article I Iinked to above covers the implications and the supposed motives for a ceasefire better than the new ones do. If the appropriate updates are made and the articles are in good shape I see no reason not post. So Support The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 14:08, 10 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

In fact that previous ceasefire annoucement the Spanish Government said Its not enough and rejected it. So to me this hinges on the Spanish governments acceptance of the ceasefire. The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 14:19, 10 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



no reason to believe this "permanence" would stay indefintaly.(Lihaas (talk) 20:31, 10 January 2011 (UTC)).[reply]



  • Weak oppose due to the fact the ETA has called for a ceasefire several times in the past and that neither Spain or France have agreed to it. This could be notable if the governments agree, but as of right now... --PlasmaTwa2 20:35, 10 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


January 9



















    

        
January 9, 2011 (2011-01-09) (Sunday)
        

        
    

    

                
Armed conflicts and attacks






                
Arts and culture






                
Business and economics






                
Disasters and accidents






                
International relations






                
Law and crime


  • An investigation by The Guardian newspaper reveals details of how Metropolitan police officer Mark Kennedy infiltrated dozens of protest groups in 22 countries using the pseudonym Mark Stone. (The Guardian)
    • 

  • Prosecutors in the U.K. drop the case against members of a group who were planning to forcefully shut down the coal based Ratcliffe-on-Soar power station temporarily, after the undercover officer, an alleged provocateur in the group, offers to give evidence in support of the activists. (BBC)





                
Politics and elections






Iran Air Flight 277


105 passengers, 50 survivors - EugεnS¡m¡on(14) ® 18:03, 9 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



Wait its breaking news right now. let wait a couple of hours and see what details come out. The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 18:05, 9 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Update 1. Reports mentioned at least 45 fatalities. - EugεnS¡m¡on(14) ® 19:15, 9 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Support High death toll, Good Article, Just make sure to include survivors rescued in the blurb and we are good. The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 19:44, 9 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



Support without opposition to waiting; 70 dead I think is significant and article is in decent shape. How about The crash of Iran Air Flight 277 leaves about 70 people dead and 32 injured for a blurb? C628 (talk) 20:42, 9 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Support due to the high death toll. --candle•wicke 21:18, 9 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 21:24, 9 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


South Sudan independence referendum


Voting starts today in a referendum on the whether South Sudan should become an independent country, which is widely expected to be approved (one poll put 97% in favour). However, results apparently won't be announced for a week. Modest Genius talk 02:08, 9 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



Blurb suggestion:



Previous discussion:










WP:ITN/FE discussion








Date will be 9 January. Modest Genius talk 02:07, 27 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]


Pretty important. Will be ridiculous if this event and fully fleshed out article do not reach the front page.



Don't forget the deathly clashes ahead of the vote.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 21:55, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]





Both sides have agreed to respect the results, per the peace agreement of the Sudanese Civil War. It's also supported by the UN, EU, African Union etc. So that's a yes, but I don't know what the time-scale would be. Modest Genius talk 02:24, 9 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Update: BBC says results will be out on 6 Feb (14 Feb if there are appeals) and a yes result would lead to independence on 9 July 2011. Modest Genius talk 20:13, 9 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


resuls will certianly not be out this day, or eeven week for that mater. but when they are then i think this article adn the new country article will/shoud/must go up. (albeit forming the new country will take months too, need to divide a lot of things. not to mention a potential "2011 sudan crirsis" page that may happen if violence ensues. Will there be at least some death today and this week through political vioelence? id bet on it, already 7 yesterday(Lihaas (talk) 02:53, 9 January 2011 (UTC));[reply]


  • We note things like the US presidential election, despite results being unavailable for a while. This is far more important than that - an event that sees the possible culmination of 50 years of conflict, and the declaration of a new country. Wikipedia is incredibly biased against the south, biased against Africa, and biased against non-American/non-British world. A referendum for a US state to succeed would be on the front page without question.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.219.241.110 (talk) 05:12, 9 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



What about TX after SuperBowl L when the Cowboys play the Texans? Well secede, the usa cant offer us anything more...too good for that ;)Lihaas (talk) 02:53, 9 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

If TX does secede and their teams will still play in the NFL, the Super Bowl will truly be an international event with the likes of such sporting events such as the Snooker World Championship. –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 06:12, 9 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

You guys should stop calling things international or World Series if only two countries participate. Nergaal (talk) 06:31, 9 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Like the much-awaited International Rules Series? At least everyone knows the World Bowl is higher in rank than the Super Bowl. :) –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 06:37, 9 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


  • Support whenever something official is published. For the Sint Martin and Curacao we published both the referendum and the official change of status and I expect this to get similar treatment. Nergaal (talk) 06:32, 9 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • 

  • Support now - the biggest story of the year so far, by a large margin, how often is a referendum held to create a new country? It's already Jan 9 (election day) where I live, it belongs on the WP front page ASAP, whatever the result. Adpete (talk) 08:20, 9 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


The article has a cleanup tag at the top, if the problems can be sorted, this can be posted soon. However, to post it before the results (that are not expected for a while), we'd need some more update regarding the voting itself. At the moment, the article is about background mostly. --Tone 10:18, 9 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Well from a cursory read, the background material is fairly good and moderately neutral, though I'm not brave enough to remove the tag. The start of voting has been all over the news. It seems to me an ideal time for the casual reader to go to WP and get some background. Adpete (talk) 10:39, 9 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I totally agree it is very informative. However, for ITN, the article has to be updated to some point as a prerequisite. If we can add some information on how the voting is proceeding, then I see no problem. --Tone 12:46, 9 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


  • Support, Biggest story of the year indeed! Marcus Qwertyus  14:07, 9 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • 

  • Support posting now. From what I've read, the voting will proceed until the 15 January, and the final results will be announced on the 6 February. I believe at least at the later date we'll have another ITN-worthy event (independence or non-independence of the Southern Sudan). GreyHood Talk 14:24, 9 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • 

  • I think both common sense and consensus support the merits of this one. The main debate seems to be whether to post now or later, on which I am neutral, though I would stress that there's no urgency to post on ITN.  The other issues are with the article itself, which needs a better update before polling.  Finally, there's the WP:NOT tag.  Does anyone understand what the root of the problem is?  Other than the article being overly long perhaps, I can't see a problem with the article.  I would support simply removing the tag unless someone presents a clear rationale for it.--Johnsemlak (talk) 17:31, 9 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


I think it refers to the (polemic) material which is now at Talk:Southern_Sudanese_independence_referendum,_2011#The Illegitimacy of the Proposed South-Sudanese Referendum. I'm going to have another read through of the article and see if there's anything else, otherwise I'll remove the tag. Modest Genius talk 19:31, 9 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



The question is whether we think this is major enough to merit posting the election now, and the results on 6 Feb. The only examples I can think of where we've done that are the US presidential and UK general elections, both of which were really blurb updates since results took less than 24 hours. Personally, I think we should post both, since this is just about the biggest political event possible in a country. Modest Genius talk 19:29, 9 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, it would be good to post both. They are far enough apart to each be considered separate events The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 19:47, 9 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



[54]Lihaas (talk) 02:53, 9 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


  • Comment I just posted, in light of the overwhelming support voiced above.   I disagree with the suggestion that this topic's notability is bound up in the likelihood of a vote for secession.  Referend(ums/a) to potentially create new states are very rare beasts indeed and inherently notable, regardless of the odds of assorted outcomes.  Off the top of my head, I believe the last mass popular consultation along these lines was Quebec in 1995, and you can be quite sure that if we had an ITN at the time the voting itself would have been ITN-level-notable even though the result did not set in motion events that would lead to an independent Quebec. If we get a result around February 6, that will likely be post-worthy as well.  If we get a formal independence declaration in July or thereabouts, that will be post-worthy, too.  No need to ration coverage, this is rare stuff. The Tom (talk) 01:27, 10 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Montenegro couple of years ago..Lihaas (talk) 02:53, 9 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Gah, brainfart, forgot they referendized. We had results there at the end of a single day of voting, so not strictly comparable, and I'm pretty sure we had one story for the results and one for the declaration.  (Aside: I think Montenegro's actually unique in history as being a peaceful creation of a new state following a popular referendum (Czechoslovakia was dissolved by the pols) so there's the possibility that Southern Sudan would be Number 2.) The Tom (talk) 01:32, 10 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It took decades of civil war for Sudan to reach this point. The referendum is a concession to the rebels. And there could be violence yet over the composition of the border and other issues. I would hardly call it a peaceful split if we take the long view. Cjs2111 (talk) 01:47, 10 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

A fair point, Cjs2111.


For comparison's sake, I dug through the archives and here's how we ITN'ed Montenegro in 2006... (I was most unshocked to see myself in the thick of things): End of campaigning/beginning of voting the day before; revised to "voting underway" the day of; then revised again with provisional results the night of.  A little more than a week later, we had a fresh item for the formal declaration of independence. The Tom (talk) 01:53, 10 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Just for the record, there's also East Timor which voted in 1999 and was proclaimed in 2002. Adpete (talk) 03:03, 10 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


January 8



















    

        
January 8, 2011 (2011-01-08) (Saturday)
        

        
    

    

                
Armed conflict and attacks






                
Arts and culture






                
Business and economics


  • 2010–2011 Tunisian protests: At least one person is killed and others are injured in the town of Tala during the latest protests against unemployment and poor living conditions. (Al Jazeera)
    • 

  • Algerian protests against food prices and unemployment:

    • Government taxes and duties on sugar and cooking oil in Algeria are lowered in response to three days of unrest over increases in unemployment and the cost of living. (Al Jazeera)
      • 

    • Two people are killed and hundreds of others are injured during the protests. (Yemen News Agency) (BBC)





                
Disasters and accidents






                
International relations






                
Law and crime








Gabriele Giffords shot in Arizona



She is dead according to television. She was the wife of the commander of the future and final Shuttle flight btw. Hektor (talk) 19:06, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


  • (edit conflict) Support, but wait. I see this is a breaking news story but we have to wait for (a) confirmation of her injuries or, hopefully not, her death, and (b) an update to her article. Hopefully we won't have to feature this. EricLeb01 (Page | Talk) 19:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Also wise to note that 11 other people were injured in the shooting. EricLeb01 (Page | Talk) 19:10, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


  • Strong wait. The nomination contains essentially all the information that is known about the incident. Let's see what comes out over the next few hours. Also, was this a particularly notable politician? (I also find it amusing that you've completely failed to state which country this referred to) Modest Genius talk 19:17, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Oh come on. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that Arizona is in the United States, or that Wales is in the UK, or that Ontario is in Canada. EricLeb01 (Page | Talk) 19:30, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Wait wait wait! I thought Ontario was in New Zealand! xD (just kidding) Diego Grez (talk) 19:40, 8 January 2011 (UTC)|[reply]

If the event was in Bavaria, would we mention Germany? Or if in Victoria, would we mention Australia? Arizona seems to be on the same level as those to me (admittedly from a UK-centric PoV) Modest Genius talk 01:56, 9 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Oppose Her death has been confirmed by the sheriff's office] and  I hate to say it but She was low ranking house member and not quite important enough for ITN in IMHO. The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 19:20, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think this is so much about the congresswoman, but about the shooting itself. Six others have died now. EricLeb01 (Page | Talk) 19:20, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with you in principal, but something tells me had it been a member of Australian House of Representatives or a member of The House of Commons we would not be having this conversation. 12 dead is more serious though. The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 20:15, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I would personally wholeheartedly support any assassination of a member of parliament / house of commons / federal governmental body in a civilised country because it really does not happen often. As noted below, the last time this happened in the States was the murder of Leo Ryan in Jonestown decades ago. But I agree that it would have gained considerable support because of the American bias. EricLeb01 (Page | Talk) 21:50, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



CNN is reporting that several people have been killed and more injured. Yes, this does deserve an article IMHO.--White Shadows We live in a beautiful world 19:33, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

NOTE: CNN is stating that reports are conflicting on whether or not Giffords is in surgery and alive or if she has actually died. Another reason to wait, as noted by MG. EricLeb01 (Page | Talk) 19:37, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I just heard the same thing...we can only wait and pray that she is indeed alive....--White Shadows We live in a beautiful world 19:38, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Those of us who don't believe in a comforting fallacy would do better to check the latest news reports and concentrate on improving the article, rather than praying. Please remember that not everyone shares your religious beliefs.  Modest Genius talk 02:13, 9 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



Rather not. We aren't a news ticker. We'll only post if the article in conjunction with the event is stable and in good shape. EricLeb01 (Page | Talk) 19:53, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


  • Not yet.  As others have noted, the event is highly notable for several reasons.  But there are many uncertainties at this point, so the item shouldn't be added until the situation is clearer and the article has been updated to reflect this.  —David Levy 20:02, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


A few of us are working on the article. Once it is clear that she is alive or dead, I think we can continue.--White Shadows We live in a beautiful world 20:06, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



Yes, I don't think there's a need to wait. There are enough editors working on the article, so it should get updated quickly when further information comes out. Nanobear (talk) 20:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Reporting breaking news isn't Wikipedia's purpose.  —David Levy 20:24, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Well, we do it excellently, so whether or not it's our purpose the article is still going to be in good shape throughout, based on past experiences. __meco (talk) 20:36, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


  • Note: In addition to the uncertainty regarding  Giffords' condition (which might be clearer after a press conference scheduled for 20:30 UTC), there are new reports that authorities seek a possible second gunman.  Fellow admins, I urge you not to add this item until the situation is clearer.  Wikipedia isn't a news website, and our article will not be in reasonable condition until various details are sorted out.  —David Levy 20:24, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • 

  • Support Political assassinations are rare in America. Questions over her importance shows ignorance about this fact and about the expectations that she would someday become a Senator. Imagine Reason (talk) 20:27, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


information Note: who posted prematurely? The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 20:29, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



one of the speediest ITN posts ive seen in a while. while many are asking to wait. wow... -- Ashish-g55 20:33, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

RA, I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you! Mjroots (talk) 20:34, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Not funny.  —David Levy 20:41, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Yes, some of us are under the impression that Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a breaking news ticker.  —David Levy 20:41, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



And if Wikipedia were a news website, that would be appropriate.  —David Levy



whats funny is it says 19 on ITN. article says 18 in very first line. the count on the side adds to 16. and news sites are reporting 12 shot. this just looks bad -- Ashish-g55 20:51, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

CNN actually now says 18 --Kitch (Talk : Contrib) 20:57, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


And we just parroted erroneous reports that John Roll, a federal judge and one of the shooting victims, was confirmed dead.  This is exactly the sort of mess that those of us opposing the item's premature inclusion foresaw.  —David Levy 20:58, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



She has just been confirmed to be alive.--White Shadows We live in a beautiful world 21:10, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Then I strongly oppose posting, especially in its current form. Take it down.--WaltCip (talk) 21:12, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


1. "International significance" isn't an inclusion criterion.


2. This was a mass shooting, not merely the shooting of a congressperson.


3. I agree, of course, that the item should not be present at this time.  —David Levy 21:16, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


  • Removing for now Most of the above supports seem to mention that several people including the congresswoman were killed, and there is current instability in terms of the number of people actually shot. SpencerT♦C 21:17, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


So just because she survived means that it is not notable enough for the main page? Not at all. This was a major shooting that resulted in at least one death, and involved a US House Representative and a Federal Judge.--White Shadows We live in a beautiful world 21:18, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

That's not what I mean. There is insufficient current clarity in the article as well as in the previous wording of the word to merit hasty posting to the Main Page before the article has more content. Repeat, this is temporarily holding off of posting until the article is fully ready. SpencerT♦C 21:25, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

We will probably have it back up in another 8-12 hours. Spencer hit the nail on the head. too much uncertainty on the details. The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 21:29, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Fair point. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 21:33, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Are you guys serious with removing this? A congresswoman from a large country has been shot. This is hardly an everyday occurrence. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 21:22, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that the event meets our notability criteria, but the item's addition was premature.  We're parroting conflicting reports regarding major details, including the number of deaths and specific people's deaths.  An article in such a state of flux should not be linked from the main page.  The section isn't a breaking news ticker; its purpose is to link to encyclopedia articles that have been appropriately updated to reflect current/recent events (which clearly isn't possible at this point).  What's the rush?  —David Levy 21:24, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


  • Support Nothing inherent to the definition of encyclopedia means untimely, with the multiple victims including a federal judge this is a significant news item regardless of whether Giffords dies or not.μηδείς (talk) 21:27, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


No one has asserted that the encyclopedia shouldn't contain an article on the shooting.  But the In the news section's purpose is to link to articles that have been appropriately updated to reflect recent/current events.  Such an update will not be possible until more concrete information is available.  —David Levy 21:38, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



Your comment appears to reflect a mistaken impression that the section's purpose is to promptly report news.  It isn't.  There's no need to rush instead of waiting until the situation is clearer.  —David Levy 21:38, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

My comment in support stands.  I have been an ITN contributor for some time and have a very good idea what the ITN section's purpose is.  Consensus was established, the blurb was posted.  I submit the removal and nit-picking of details is a mistake.  The Congresswoman's condition is "very critical", a Federal judge and five others are dead [55], and it is all over the news. I repeat: Put it back up. Jusdafax   21:49, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Please don't escalate this. EricLeb01 (Page | Talk) 21:52, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


If you understand the section's purpose, why do you believe that we should link to an article lacking essential information about the event?  "This is no time to nit pick details" seems to imply a sense of urgency that simply doesn't exist.  You've noted that the story is "all over the news," but Wikipedia isn't a news website and the section isn't a breaking news ticker.


I disagree that consensus was established to post the item at this juncture.  Much of the support (including mine) is contingent upon waiting until the facts are known.  —David Levy 21:56, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


  • Comment. It was pretty clear from the beginning that we should not have rushed this. There is always a large magnitude of uncertainty when news networks break a story of this calibre. People do not come to Wikipedia for news, they come for encyclopaedic content; and when we make claims on the front page of the website which are not confirmed with certainty, that undermines our purpose. So lets take it slow, vamp up the article, and then post it when everything looks good. Just like any other story on this page. EricLeb01 (Page | Talk) 21:50, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


I strongly agree with this statement'. We are not a breaking news site, there is no need to rush unless and until the details are clear and the articles in a postable state (ie not in constant flux on the essential details) Modest Genius talk 01:47, 9 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


  • Strong support. A federal judge murdered and a congresswoman shot in the head? This kind of thing hasn't happened for decades. Extreme reader interest and worldwide coverage. If the article on the shooting isn't ITN quality yet, we can bold-link Giffords' name. There will be hundreds of thousands of people coming to Wikipedia for info on Giffords now, and it makes sense to have a link from the front page. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 22:31, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


That's an important point. We need to give our readers a quick way of finding the info they really need right now. Nanobear (talk) 22:34, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Like the Wikinews link prominently placed in the article?  —David Levy 22:38, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


It's unfortunate that "hundreds of thousands of people" have mistaken Wikipedia for a news website.  —David Levy 22:38, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It's not that they think this is a news site; it's that they'll be looking for background information on who this person is. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 22:43, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

They can find her Wikipedia article by typing her name into our search box.  Better yet, they can follow a link from Wikinews' article on the shooting.  By treating ITN as a breaking news ticker, we discourage people from even bothering to visit Wikinews, which is a great disservice to our sister project (as well as a misuse of the Wikipedia project).  —David Levy 22:55, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



At this point there are only two figures mentioned regarding killed people: 5 (mentioned by Obama) or 6 (mentioned by CNN and others). I don't think that is going to change for a while. Information seems to be stable now. Nanobear (talk) 23:11, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Agree. News stable at six killed across the board. Jusdafax   23:18, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


  • Support Newsworthy. Mono (talk)  23:22, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • 

  • Strong support, although waiting 12-24 hours may be a good idea. A major news event with wall-to-wall coverage by all the major national news outlets and with major international coverage as well. Quite obviously will be the lead story in all the newspapers tomorrow. Even without knowing all the details, the scale of the attack and the number of victims already make it the most prominent example of domestic political assassination attempt in years. Nsk92 (talk) 23:24, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • 

  • Strong support, attempted (maybe successful) political assassination, not to mention the other casualties, and if I am not mistaken she will be only the second US member of congress to be killed in the line of duty. However, I think we should wait until the important facts are cioimpletely established; how many injured, how many dead, status of Giffords, who was the shooter, etc. --PlasmaTwa2 23:39, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


She wasn't killed. But it was the first assassination attempt against a female politician the US, according to the Telegraph.[56] Nanobear (talk) 23:41, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure I believe that. It is probably the first on politician of her stature.Marcus Qwertyus  23:49, 8 January 2011 (UTc)

Council member Connie Karr, Kirkwood City Council shooting. Marcus Qwertyus  23:57, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



Atleast five people including a federal judge are killed, and Representative Gabrielle Giffords is injured in a shooting in Arizona. Maybe? Support by the way. Grsz 11 00:41, 9 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


I agree that we've reached a sufficient level of information.  —David Levy 00:48, 9 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



'United States federal judge' seems way too vague to me. Either the person is notable, in which case we have a named article on them, or they aren't, in which case they are irrelevant. The story here is surely the congress member, not the judge? Modest Genius talk 01:51, 9 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

We have an article on John Roll. Not sure how to reword it (since the main focus is on the representative), as you indicate. Titoxd(?!? - cool stuff) 02:01, 9 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I've reworded the item in a manner that omits the mention entirely.  Under the circumstances, there really doesn't seem to be a non-awkward way to work in that information.  And given the lack of evidence that Roll was a specific target (i.e. that he was shot because he was a federal judge), this might be for the best.  —David Levy 02:11, 9 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

For the record, support posting, and support David Levy's rewording to omit the judge. We could probably have waited a few hours for the article to stabilise, but I appreciate the widespread interest this attracts. It's still good to mention the country (as the current blurb does) though. Modest Genius talk 02:17, 9 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



It's a good warm-up for this--Johnsemlak (talk) 04:47, 9 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

If the Ducks win and it won't be posted I'd sue ITN. –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 04:55, 9 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Renault-Nissan



Interesting news [57], but we normally wait for convictions for this sort of thing. --BorgQueen (talk) 10:17, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Isn't it just speculation at this point? Modest Genius talk 10:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

they haven't released anything except 3 people got fired over it. not much to go on -- Ashish-g55 17:16, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"A possible Chinese connection" (source) is not the same as "was spied by the Cninese" (nomination). --candle•wicke 04:13, 9 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


January 7



















    

        
January 7, 2011 (2011-01-07) (Friday)
        

        
    

    

                
Armed conflicts and attacks






                
Business and economy






                
International relations






                
Law and crime






                
Politics






                
Sports








U.S. Foreclosure Crisis


The 2010 United States foreclosure crisis continued to intensify as the Massachusetts Supreme Court ruled against the nation's banking industry in a case that affects hundred of thousands of homes. [58]  [59] A pretty big deal; not only does this dramatically slow the pace at which banks can boot Americans out of their homes due to widespread 'robo-signing', it also has a number of deep effects on the housing market, banks, the U.S. economy, and an international 'ripple effect' .  A benchmark legal ruling with multiple ramifications.  Suggest 'Foreclosure' article to link to, as it is quite well reffed, but the article does need an update re: today's development. Jusdafax   06:02, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



Support - as nominator. Jusdafax   06:05, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


oppose far to vague "intensify" which is synthesis. So the maket went down 22 points, big deal. speculative terrorists anyhow ;) not bloody logical, stupid big media comes up with any crapship reason(Lihaas (talk) 07:36, 8 January 2011 (UTC));[reply]

And this from someone who places a request at the top of his talk page saying "please be nice, assume good faith...I don't like reading wild demands and rude talk."   Hmmmm.  Kevin McE (talk) 11:11, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

He wasn't doing any of that. He's criticising the media and the story, not Jusdafax. EricLeb01 (Page | Talk) 17:52, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

precisely. read what it read before trying for some vengeance, and as you assert then did you WP:AGF.Lihaas (talk) 07:36, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Oppose'. I'm not seeing the story here. A state (not federal) court rules that two (a whole 2!) mortgage foreclosures were illegal; in response shares fall by a whole one percent. So what? I don't see any of the wider implications you suggest. Modest Genius talk 10:30, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Asian Cup 2011



Woo hooo! the world's greatest soccer tournament kicks off!!!!!!!!!!! (and india vs. australia on monday, guess what the commentators are going to say? ;))(Lihaas (talk) 19:40, 7 January 2011 (UTC));[reply]



Support when tournament ends. ITN/R. EricLeb01 (Page | Talk) 19:59, 7 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


(ec) Post the winner at the end of the tournament. I guess we only post openings of Olympics and the World cup. --Tone 20:06, 7 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. Post it when Australia wins. --Mkativerata (talk) 20:09, 7 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

on current aus. sporting form...ooh! monday..! ;)Lihaas (talk) 19:40, 7 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Wait until the final result. Also, some kind of pretence at objectivity from Lihaas would be nice ;) Modest Genius talk 23:02, 7 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

what do you mean? i said its be a nice game ;)Lihaas (talk) 19:40, 7 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Wait I am going to laugh my ass off when the so-called "world's greatest soccer tournament" will be won by a country that... is not even in Asia. Nergaal (talk) 00:05, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Haha, they are hosting the world cup but they are not even able to win a game in the so-called "world's greatest soccer tournament". Nergaal (talk) 00:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I know, so sad. theyll be worse than SA at home ;)Lihaas (talk) 19:40, 7 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


You guys have no idea how ITN was that bad 4 years ago... –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 02:15, 10 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Death of Vang Pao


Was a Major General in the Royal Lao Army. He was an ethnic Hmong and a leader of the Hmong American community in the United States. - EugεnS¡m¡on(14) ® 11:04, 7 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



Oppose. Not seeing the significance here. Doesn't meet the death criteria, and I'm not seeing much coverage. Might later defer to others if support is convincing. EricLeb01 (Page | Talk) 17:15, 7 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Oppose. I too cannot see why this person is especially significant, and neither the article nor nomination make any substantive claim otherwise. Modest Genius talk 10:32, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


England win the Ashes in Australia


England have beaten Australia in Australia for the first time in 24 years, in the Ashes, the longest running and most competitive series in test cricket. Mcai7et2 (talk) 02:14, 7 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



Whilst I agree we should be posting this now (when it's the lead story on every UK media outlet), for some reason we already posted the Ashes after the 4th test (when England could no longer be beaten). I doubt it's a significant enough story to get two items in as many weeks. Modest Genius talk 02:50, 7 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Absolutely not. We already posted this a few weeks ago after England "won" the tournament. --PlasmaTwa2 03:15, 7 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It's not a tournament, it's one match that for some reason has a separate "trophy".  狐 FOX  11:44, 7 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Err, it's neither. It's a series of five matches which has its own trophy, which is only awarded at the end of the series. But it's a fait accompli now... Modest Genius talk 16:28, 7 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Oppose. We posted it when England retained the Urn. I think that's sufficient. Although I too don't exactly see what the rush was. EricLeb01 (Page | Talk) 04:00, 7 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Oppose.  Already posted, at the correct time IMO and as per consensus.  The final match just padded the victory.  I know 'victory' wasn't guaranteed before in one sense but we've had this debate before.--Johnsemlak (talk) 07:11, 7 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Oppose, already posted before and it's not so important as to post again. Disclaimer, I'm a Scot. ;)  狐 FOX  11:44, 7 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Support but not because of the Ashes (which was correct to put up at some point), but because it is the first time any team has won 3 matches in a series by an innings away from home. [60] (aprox 2/3rds down).

To be fair, that's just stats-cruft. Modest Genius talk 16:28, 7 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Oppose It was posted when England clinched it. --Kitch (Talk : Contrib) 17:28, 7 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

stupid bloody imperialists! how many Welshman are actually on that wales team? (and clearly england didnt win, WALES did)Lihaas (talk) 19:40, 7 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


January 6



















    

        
January 6, 2011 (2011-01-06) (Thursday)
        

        
    

    

                
Armed conflicts and attacks






                
Business and economy


  • A French market regulator approves a takeover defense adopted by the Hermès family, who own the manufacturer of Birkin and Kelly handbags. This improves the odds that Hermès will preserve its independence in the face of a bid by LVMH. (Reuters)





                
Disasters and accidents






                
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Large-scale death of fauna


Although there seems to be no article, surely the large-scale deaths of fish and birds in the US over the last few days should be mentioned especially as it seems so bizarre and unprescedented? Simply south..... 00:54, 6 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



Note: Moved to proper date. EricLeb01 (Page | Talk) 04:07, 6 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Oppose Freak incidents are classic WP:NOTNEWS, Its weird dont get me wrong. Lack of an Article is a good thing  as I can only see this pie chart as the center piece of the article.

im leaning towards support. 2m fish dead because of colder temperature? every day now a large number of dead animals are being reported. single instance would definitely be useless but this is everyday news now. -- Ashish-g55 21:14, 6 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

But there is no connection between them! other than occurring roughly with a week of each other. The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 21:25, 6 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Oppose, especially considering they're placing it down to something mundane like firework noise.  狐 FOX  21:50, 6 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Comment - I have noticed a spike in this type of article in the past five days or so re: birds, fish, and honeybees.  As far as I know there is no article at the moment, so that is an issue, and I won't take a stand on the merits of an ITN blurb.  But it is an unusual concentration in my view, and I speak as a news junkie for half a century and an ex-reporter for a decade.  Worth keeping an eye on, and if it continues... Jusdafax   16:28, 7 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


MMR vaccine controversy


Found to be fraud:  I haven't had time to update article, but it's in very good shape. [61]  SandyGeorgia (Talk) 05:37, 6 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



If it were up to me, everyone who ever thought that vaccines cause autism would be forced to read this article. But I'm not sure if this is significant enough. I remember that we ran the article on ITN when The Lancet retracted Wakefield's article, so I don't know if we should run it again. I could be convinced either way. NW (Talk) 05:42, 6 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Not sure about the article being in good shape. On a 5 minute spot-check I found some close paraphrasing of footnote 83 and footnote 77 provides no support for the very contentious material it follows. I'm sure parts of the article are fine, but that's not to say a lot of crap hasn't crept in over time. But in principle, I'd like to see this up. --Mkativerata (talk) 05:45, 6 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Well, it was in good shape before Eubulides (talk · contribs) left Wiki (he tended it), but I'm off to bed, so can't work on it-- I left a message at WT:MED.  SandyGeorgia (Talk) 06:07, 6 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Support one of the things that wikipedia should do is to educate people. This is a good example where it can do lots of public good if users do not stringently stick to the idea if it was on ITN before it should not be again. Nergaal (talk) 06:18, 6 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Support per above, in principle. The article is long so I can't read it at the moment but will try later. What would the blurb say? --Tone 08:04, 6 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Support per above, but this is not a sufficient update.--Chaser (talk) 09:09, 6 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Strong Support Extremely significant event. To have an article retracted by a the high caliber journal like the The Lancet  for poor methodology was one thing... now to reveal its was pure fraud is astounding. Not to mention the fact that it was one the most conterversial studies in medicine for nearly a decade increases the signficance. The multimillion dollar lawsuits that stemmed from the result of the study.... The children who died from being unvaccinated... the effect on the autism community... Do I really need to go on? The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 13:29, 6 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I believe we have a consensus here, what we need, is a substantial update to the article. With a strong story like this, we cannot afford to put a badly-update article on the main page. --Tone 14:02, 6 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I'm just waking up, and have a busy day, but med editors are aware.  Was the old ITN a link to the controversy article?  Would the blurb be to that article, or to Andrew Wakefield and Brian Deer?  I've not much experience in blurbs for ITN, but The Resident Anthropologist hits on the key issues.  SandyGeorgia (Talk) 14:56, 6 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I think it would be better not to link to Andrew Wakefield that article is has enough BLP issues without us trying to draw more attention to it. Brian Deer on the other hand I would not have an issue with. The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 15:12, 6 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Support The Andrew Wakefield article has the best (in terms of both detail, organization and accuracy) update, so use that one as bolded link. Narayanese (talk) 15:48, 6 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Whilst this is plainly an important story and the sort of thing we should be covering, is it really news? We've known that the Wakefield study was massively flawed for over a decade, and that it was fraudulent for years. What's new here is that Brian Deer, who has published a whole load of material on this, has published a new piece in the British Medical Journal. It's not actually a scientific paper, but more a piece of journalism. I'm not a biologist, but I don't see much actually new in the article. Modest Genius talk 16:18, 6 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This is the fat lady singing, the final nail in the coffin. Thats how i view it. The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 16:25, 6 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Modest Genius, I think you missed a step re who published what in the BMJ:  [62].  Anyway, Wakefield is in pretty good shape, I agree that is the better article, and I don't think we can't handle BLP issues on the mainpage-- it's well cited.  I don't know how to do ITN blurbs, and I'm off for the day.  SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:39, 6 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Deer published an article (my link) which was discussed in an accompanying editorial (your link). What are you getting at? Modest Genius talk 16:43, 6 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Oppose - I can't support this, as it is marginal 'news' at best. I read a lot of mainstream news websites before I log on here, and saw nothing about this in any of them.  Adoption of this item starts a a new approach to ITN criteria, and I am astonished at the supporters who say we should be "educating" people with the ITN feature.  If so, why not change the name of this feature from ITN to 'News we think you should know'?  Seriously, I wonder greatly at this. Jusdafax   16:55, 6 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It was featured at least on the mainpage of Yahoo, and is currently featured on the maipage of CNN-- haven't checked others.  SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:06, 6 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I see this story on CNN way down at the bottom in the world section: [63] and I find it highly interesting that Wakefield strongly disputes the findings. I'd suggest you put that in the blurb as well if you must run this at ITN, but my previous objections stand.  I should also note I have no personal interest either way in the topic of the item, and have no prior history of editing these types of medical articles.  My objection is that putting this minor item on the ITN main page feature appears to me, rightly or wrongly to be advocacy and POV-driven, or at least could be taken that way, when there are numerous other stories at the top of the headlines that are of greater merit, in my view. Jusdafax   17:48, 6 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I think that is a function of CNN's randomizer; it is at the top of the Health section for me. But as another example: the four main articles on NPR today are the governmental panel's reports on the oil spill, what is happening with the 112th Congress, this, and William Daley becoming Chief of Staff. We clearly can't run the 2nd or the 4th, the 1st probably isn't significant enough with how much attention we have paid to it, but the 3rd looks perfectly fine to run, IMO. NW (Talk) 18:00, 6 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

At the time I checked it was most definitly at the very top of their mainpage, not at the bottom, not a separate section (haven't rechecked).  Jusdafax, what is your concern?  Is there something in the article that isn't well cited or undue and you think he'll sue us or what? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 18:38, 6 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Sandy I missed your question here earlier.  I trust my comments further down answered you? Jusdafax   01:40, 7 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Support. Arguments made above convince me that this was a big and important controversy ended with the official rejection of the initial study. EricLeb01 (Page | Talk) 17:04, 6 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Question: upon further investigation, this seems to be mostly fallout from the GMC hearings that struck Wakefield off the register. A lot of it is write-up in a scientific journal of things that came out during the hearings. Did we post anything about that at the time? Modest Genius talk 17:01, 6 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


  • I find it interesting that the three major newspapers of Britain (I think), The Times, The Guardian, and The Telegraph, all are not running the article. Neither is The New York Times.  On the other hand, NPR and CNN have it in their top articles. Perhaps the journal was released too late for the newspapers? In any case, I think tomorrow we will see the newspapers running the articles for sure. Anyway, how about this for a hook:



The title of British Medical Journal was officially shortened to BMJ (which I find very confusing for our readers, but ... )  SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:43, 6 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

First BP, then BMJ (or the other way around)? Gosh darn those Brits :)
How about:



I'm unsure, do most readers know what MMR stands for?  Should it be generalized to "vaccines"?  SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:51, 6 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I would doubt it. But the paper did only focus on MMR, generalizing to all vaccines is a bit of a stretch. NW (Talk) 18:00, 6 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I had not heard of it or indeed any of this story, and I continue to feel the blurb should note Wakefield disputes the finding his study is a "fraud".  I would think very carefully about this, people, per WP:BLP policy. Jusdafax 18:04, 6 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

(edit conflict)I'm not sure how that blurb would violate BLP. Numerous studies and investigations have found him guilty of fraud, including the Lancet which retracted his paper, and the General Medical Council which revoked his license to practise medicine. There's no undue weight, since scientific opinion is overwhelmingly against him. And the story is sourced to the BMJ, one of the most widely respected medical journals on the planet. How does this violate BLP? Modest Genius talk 18:19, 6 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Before you go taking any of Wakefield's claims seriously, know this: Wakefield no longer has a license to practice medicine as a result of the publication of this article. BMJ is the one of the most cited health journals, and its rivals include (the very prestigious) The Lancet, The New England Journal of Medicine and Journal of the American Medical Association. You're not really going to get a more reliable source. In addition, my proposed hook includes attribution. NW (Talk) 18:16, 6 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

NW, I find I must repeat that I never heard of this guy, know absolutely nothing about the topic, have never presumed to edit on the topic, and have no strong feelings either way about it.  The case has been made here that we are in compliance with WP:RS... very well, point taken. I would still take care to write the blurb to be as neutrally worded as possible, which is never bad advice.  My other objection stands but I will step back since I am in the total minority on that. Jusdafax   18:35, 6 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Shouldn't we highlight the controversy article instead? --Tone 18:36, 6 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

See the discussion at the top - I'm concerned there could be too many problems with the article, including source misrepresentation for POV material. The Wakefield article looks in much better shape and SandyGeorgia seems to have had a good crack at it over the last few hours. --Mkativerata (talk) 18:39, 6 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I worked on Wakefield a bit, but I didn't do much at the controversy article, and other than ongoing cleanup and having them watchlisted for a long time, I can't vouch for the intergrity of the controversy article since Eubulides left Wiki.  SandyGeorgia (Talk) 18:41, 6 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Looking at the lede of the Wakefield article gives me the chills, as it seems pretty close to WP:UNDUE. A few weeks ago I suggested an ITN item that mentioned Dick Cheney's involvement in Nigeria with Halliburton in the quarter billion dollar bribery 'settlement'. We had to remove mention of Cheney, the CEO of Halliburton at the time of the alleged offense that Halliburton paid big buck to settle, from the ITN blurb that was posted because you can't get any of that even mentioned in the Cheney article, due to watchdogs that scrub anything negative out of the article, much less the lede.  This guy Wakefield's treatment in his article is a bit different, wouldn't you say?  Jusdafax   18:55, 6 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree. Cheney was a US Vice President - hit job allegations by a foreign entity are a trivial part of his biography. This is all that Wakefield is known for. --Mkativerata (talk) 18:59, 6 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Agree with Mk ... Cheney's case is very different, Wakefield wouldn't likely even be notable except for the MMR controversy.  SandyGeorgia (Talk) 19:06, 6 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

My point at the time was that a quarter billion dollar payout was hardly trivial, considering Cheney's being cited in the Nigerian indictment. The corollary of that as it pertains to Wakefield is that no one is going to pay a dime to clear his reputation.  Here again, I seem to be finding zero common ground with anyone here.  I don't care about Wakefield per se, but anyone supporting this linking to his article should read that lede.  (Shakes head.) Jusdafax   19:11, 6 January 2011 (UTC)[reply] 
Marginal support, but only if we rephrase the blurb: fraud is a criminal offence, and the BMJ does not have jurisdiction to declare criminal guilt. Let's restrict ourselves to falsification, which the BMA is competent to identify. Kevin McE (talk) 19:16, 6 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Financial fraud is a criminal offence, research fraud is not. Perhaps we should say 'research fraud' in the blurb then? Modest Genius talk 19:56, 6 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The term you seek is "Academic fraud" not "research fraud" The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 20:12, 6 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Is non-academic research immune from fraud then? Modest
Genius talk 20:22, 6 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



No merely noting a specific term applicable in this situation over neologism. The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 20:27, 6 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


We seem to have an article on it but I would not recommend linking it in the blurb: it's too broad and too rubbish for this purpose. --Mkativerata (talk) 20:19, 6 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



I will say this, Sandy: Thanks to your efforts, and those of NW and other editors at Wakefield's article, I think the lede and article are improved and approach NPOV.  The interest in the story is obvious from your stats.  While I still have reservations, the improvements and removed dubious material show reasonable concern over what was there 12 hours ago, and I thank you for taking the time and trouble. Jusdafax   02:57, 7 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Most of the lead was written by TenOfAllTrades; I just pasted it in, massaged it a wee bit, and then NW reworked it-- but thanks!  SandyGeorgia (Talk) 03:04, 7 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


I believe we have consensus for the addition. Could an administrator please take a look? NW (Talk) 04:03, 7 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



Posting - I do not normally post rationales for ITN updates, but this might warrant one. There is definitely consensus for posting this article. While BLP concerns also factor here, this "fraud" is being widely reported by news media around the world as such (along with the academic studies and investigations that led to this conclusion), so I don't think posting this would violate BLP. Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 04:18, 7 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


January 5



















    

        
January 5, 2011 (2011-01-05) (Wednesday)
        

        
    

    

                
Arts and culture






                
Business and economy


  • Iran and India develop a stop-gap plan to continue the flow of oil from the former to the latter, and payments in the opposite direction, days after India withdrew from the Asian Clearing Union.  The new plan involves payments through the EIH Bank, in Hamburg, Germany. (Domain-b)





                
Law and crime


  • A 17-year-old student at Millard South High School, in Omaha, Nebraska, shoots an assistant principal to death and wounds the school principal before turning the gun onto himself. (CNN)
    • 

  • A Malaysian coroner records an open verdict in the death of opposition aide Teoh Beng Hock, who fell from the roof of the anti-corruption commission building in July 2009. (BBC) (Malaysia Star)
    • 

  • Police investigating the murder of Joanna Yeates make a fresh appeal for information, saying that when discovered, her fully clothed body was missing a sock which may hold important clues. (BBC)
    • 

  • In the UK 33 people are convicted for their part in an £80m drugs and money laundering operation. They include Simon Ford, a firefighter commended for his actions during the 7 July London bombings. (BBC)





                
Politics






                
Sports






                
Bird Deaths


  • There were 3 fairly significant mass bird death events in Italy, Sweden and Romania. (Wiki)






Fault-finding in Deepwater Horizon oil spill



I added the lowest section, the one detailing the release of the new report several hours ago which blamed BP and its associate companies. The report was released on January 5, UTC. Reaper Eternal (talk) 03:50, 6 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. No surprise there. Wait for a fine or something from the government, because a report won't do anything to BP anywhere other than in court. EricLeb01 (Page | Talk) 04:02, 6 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It is all over the headlines on many news stations. MSNBC, The Telegraph, Minneapolis Star Tribune The Washington Post, WSAU, The New York Times, Reuters, and KSFR are just a couple. Reaper Eternal (talk) 04:06, 6 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, no doubt this will get attention, but it still has no implications. EricLeb01 (Page | Talk) 04:13, 6 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Support. It's indeed over the headlines now, and they call for reforms in the BP industry, so it is likely to have some implications. The blurb may relflect the main point of the report, that the Deepwater Horizon oil spill was not a rare occurence, but a consequence of systemic problems with management. GreyHood Talk 13:27, 6 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Support - Agree this is very much 'In The News'.  This major story fixes blame and points fingers.  Agree with Greyhood re: "systemic problems" resulting in one of the greatest environmental disasters of all time. The report is well-considered, of high repute, and this item would be a worthy addition to ITN. Jusdafax   17:58, 6 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Support per above. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 18:36, 6 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Anyone else? The update looks fine. --BorgQueen (talk) 20:44, 6 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Support offcial report places blame on the party in question, hope fully this is the last Deepwater horizon ITN update ever. The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 22:53, 6 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Be sure and link BP, Halliburton and Transocean to keep NPOV  since they are all blamed in the report The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 23:05, 6 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, we seem to have consensus. Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 23:32, 6 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Suicide of Ali-Reza Pahlavi



I'd say it didn't meet the criteria. But I'm not bothered either way. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 14:22, 5 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Support. Life is a struggle - EugεnS¡m¡on(14) ® 17:06, 5 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Anyone else? The timer is red... --BorgQueen (talk) 17:30, 5 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


The article is not that good. If you're conserned about the timer, we have the floods and the cave that I think are better for ITN at this moment. --Tone 17:35, 5 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The article doesn't demonstrate that he's a particularly significant figure, so I can't see why his death is ITN-worthy. --Mkativerata (talk) 19:38, 5 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Oppose. I can't see the significance of this person - younger son of an admittedly notable person, but who hasn't done anything much notable himself, whose death appears to have had little to no impact. Modest Genius talk 20:25, 5 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Oppose: It's his brother who's the heir to the throne. I don't see how his death affects much of anything, even among the monarchists. Nightw 12:00, 6 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Oppose He never ruled Iran himself, and was never that big a force against the current Iranian regime anyway. Not notable enough. --Kitch (Talk : Contrib) 19:16, 6 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


2010–2011 Philippine floods



–HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 11:57, 5 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



Yay, more floods! This looks as bad as in Australia, support in principle. --Tone 13:06, 5 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Support as per Tone.--Johnsemlak (talk) 16:13, 5 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Can anyone do something about the orphan tag? --BorgQueen (talk) 17:38, 5 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Oppose at only 25 deaths in a country commonly struck by extreme weather. Nergaal (talk) 06:19, 6 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Support The absolute scale seems to be larger than in Australia. More deaths, more people affected, from what I have read. Definitely should be posted. GreyHood Talk 13:09, 6 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment The timer is extremely red, and the article seems to be good enough. GreyHood Talk 13:29, 6 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Support. Extent of flood is comparable to the ongoing Queensland floods. EricLeb01 (Page | Talk) 17:06, 6 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Weak support, but lose the 'extreme' in the blurb. Article is rather meh, but we've posted plenty of worse ones. Modest Genius talk 17:34, 6 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Comment Hey, admins, please turn your attention to this nomination! 5 supports against 1 oppose, and the article meets the minimum posting criteria. What are we waiting for here? The blurb may go this way:


Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 12:59, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Death of Gerry Rafferty


British singer Gerry Rafferty died of liver failure yesterday. Best known for his involvement in Stealers Wheel, a musical group formed in the 1970's. Most of us have heard "Stuck in the Middle", which sold one million copies in 1973 and hit #6 on the Top 100. Also led a successful solo career, hitting platinum and gold with City to City (5 mil. sold) and Night Owl respectively. Personally never heard of the guy, but I have heard his music, and I think his death carries a sufficient blow to the music industry to be featured on ITN. BBC, Telegraph, NYT, CBC, LA Times EricLeb01 (Page | Talk) 05:55, 5 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



Upon reading his article it seems to me he's a minor celebrity with similar notability to Pete Postlethwaite below.  On that basis I'll oppose.--Johnsemlak (talk) 07:11, 5 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Just to add that I don't see how he meets ITN death criteria.--Johnsemlak (talk) 07:13, 5 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Oppose One record that reached No 3 in UK chart, No 2 in US (mainly on the back of 8 bars by Bob Holness Raphael Ravenscroft); one other top ten hit as part of a group.  No major release for c25 years, so not sure what nom means by "blow to the music industry". Nice to hear the song on the radio this morning, but miles away from being an important news item.  Kevin McE (talk) 07:29, 5 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose one hit wonder. EDIT: Stuck in the Middle is a very famous record regardless of its chart status, the issue for me is that this guy didn't really make anything else that was equivalently popular. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 07:36, 5 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"Baker Street"? Apparently he makes US$125,000 per year only in royalties for that song. EricLeb01 (Page | Talk) 16:38, 5 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


World's Biggest Cave Found in Vietnam


Recent expedition by a team of British Cave Research Association finds Hang Son Doong in Vietnam to be the biggest cave in the world discovered so far. [65] Crnorizec (talk) 09:15, 5 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]




Looks promising. However, the article is somehow short and should be improved - for example, if it is a World heritage site, it should have the box. --Tone 13:05, 5 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The Phong Nha-Ke Bang National Park where the cave is located is a World Heritage site.--Johnsemlak (talk) 13:11, 5 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



I only skimmed the article, so excuse me if I missed something, but what's new about this? It looks like the survey was conducted in 2009. The National Geographic site reported Hang Son Doong as the world's biggest cave almost two years ago. I can't tell what's been updated. Has it been officially confirmed or something? Makeemlighter (talk) 23:34, 5 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

And that NatGeo article linked above is from July 2009... Modest Genius talk 23:51, 5 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The Yahoo article dated this month linked in the article says that the 2009 discoverers of the cave returned recently to measure the cave or something. I see nothing about actual confirmation though. EricLeb01 (Page | Talk) 00:47, 6 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

They only measured it with lasers and published the results recently, and that is why NatGeo News updated the old article on 3.1.2011. Before that, the researchers didn't know the actual size. Crnorizec (talk) 01:27, 6 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


January 4



















    

        
January 4, 2011 (2011-01-04) (Tuesday)
        

        
    

    

                
Business and economy






                
Disasters and accidents


  • Russia begins an operation to free 500 people stranded in ships by ice in the Sea of Okhotsk. (BBC)
    • 

  • More evacuations take place in Queensland, Australia, as flood waters continued to rise and the Australian prime minister says damages could amount to hundreds of millions of dollars. (CNN)





                
Law and crime






                
Politics






                
Science and technology








Governor of Pakistan's Punjab Province assassinated


Salmaan Taseer, Governor of Punjab, Pakistan, was assassinated today by his own security guard in the capital, Islamabad.[66] __meco (talk) 11:55, 4 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



Support. "The killing was the most high-profile assassination of a political figure in Pakistan since the slaying of former Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto in December of 2007." [67] --BorgQueen (talk) 12:27, 4 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Biographical article is in okay shape for posting on ITN. I've dealt with some urgent cleanup issues. __meco (talk) 12:30, 4 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The "Controversy" section seems to need some attention, perhaps just removing a few sentences. --BorgQueen (talk) 12:38, 4 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I have removed some and tagged the rest. Do you think more needs to be done before posting? __meco (talk) 12:44, 4 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Let's wait for more supports before posting... --BorgQueen (talk) 12:49, 4 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Support, once the referencing issues in the "Controversy" section have been cleared up. Nightw 12:52, 4 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Weak support I have some slight concerns about reporting this, since he is not and never has been a top-level leader at the national level. But he does have a good article. --Kitch (Talk : Contrib) 13:19, 4 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Then again, considering it was over Pakistan's blasphemy law, that could push it over the top. --Kitch (Talk : Contrib) 13:22, 4 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


We have a free image: File:Salmaan Taseer October 29, 2009 Lahore.jpg. --BorgQueen (talk) 13:46, 4 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Support Indeed, it is hot news right now. He may not be as influential in national politics as Kitch says above, but he was at least at the provincial level - as the governor of the country's largest and strongest province. Mar4d (talk) 13:59, 4 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Posting soon. --BorgQueen (talk) 14:07, 4 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

One could argue about Pakistani Panjab being "strongest" province as Karachi is the economic capital of Pakistan.  Nonetheless an important assassination in connection with Pakistans Blasphemy Law and related to Taseers known support to Asia Bibi[68] so Strong Support--Wikireader41 (talk) 21:09, 4 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Post-posting support, but I'd like to make a procedural point: whilst consensus appears to have been reached, I would prefer to see an uninvolved admin making the post, rather than someone who cast the first support !vote. Modest Genius talk 17:02, 4 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think ITN should be as bureaucratic as XfDs. If there is no opposition, I don't have a problem with an "involved" admin acting boldly and quickly to enact the consensus and update ITN. --Mkativerata (talk) 21:41, 4 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


FWIW, I'd have posted it myself. Support. Titoxd(?!? - cool stuff) 21:31, 4 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]










WP:DENY







Scientists create more than 50 rainstorms in Abu Dhabi desert.


In January 2011, it was reported that during the previous year, scientists involved in a secret project called Weathertec had created more than 50 rainstorms in the Abu Dhabi desert. Time The modernization of Emily (talk) 02:54, 4 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



neutral mostly becuase its pretty astounding.... Too astounding for my comfort. I saw the Daily Mail treated it with "Scientist Claim." I am concerned its people taking credit for mother nature any one else wanna take a stab?  The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 03:19, 4 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The Time article states "On the 52 days it rained in the region throughout July and August, forecasters did not predict rain once." The modernization of Emily (talk) 04:26, 4 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Weak Oppose, seems a little too reliant on "might have"s for me. Have the feeling that people will spot something amiss if and when we post.  狐 FOX  03:46, 4 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Oppose. This is scientific? There should be a scientific paper (unless I'm missing something). Until then, this is not proven, and, as noted by TRA above, this could turn out to simply be a completely natural occurrence. My gut tells me it's the latter. EricLeb01 (Page | Talk) 03:56, 4 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The project was monitored by the Max Planck Institute. Arabian Business The modernization of Emily (talk) 04:24, 4 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I still personally want to see something more scientific than a TIME and Arabian Business article before concluding that this is some revolutionary technique to warp our weather. EricLeb01 (Page | Talk) 04:54, 4 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]




January 3



















    

        
January 3, 2011 (2011-01-03) (Monday)
        

        
    

    

                
Armed conflicts and attacks






                
Business and economy


  • Investments in Facebook totaling US$500 million lead to speculation that its value could be as high as US$50 billion. (CNN)





                
Disasters and accidents






                
International relations






                
Law and crime






                
Politics






                
Science and technology








Death of Pete Postlethwaite


British actor Pete Postlethwaite has died (BBC). Our article isn't great, but Steven Spielberg reckoned he was "the best actor in the world", and he starred in productions from Royal Shakespeare Company plays to Hollywood blockbusters, and everything in between. Receiving lots of media attention at the moment. Modest Genius talk 18:23, 3 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



Support. Outstanding British Oscar nominated actor. His death has received wide spread coverage in the British media. Bjmullan (talk) 18:53, 3 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Support per above. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 18:58, 3 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Support. Mainly I'm against posting the death of every actor, but this should be excluded, since Postlethwaite was really acclaimed, and the report about his dead receives reputable attention.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 19:01, 3 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Support Article is not great but its decent and definitely ITN postable. Kiril and I agree on the merits of actors on ITN and agree this one is worth posting. The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 19:05, 3 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



Oppose.  Not nearly notable enough for ITN in my opinion.  His most famous roles have been supporting roles.  No major awards.  As mentioned the article isn't great, which I think is not unconnected to his notability.  The death is not getting much high-profile coverage outside the UK that I can see.  I can't see him meeting the death criteria, specifically number two: 'a very important person in his/her field, and recognised as such'.  ITN is not an obituary section.  Many more notable actor's deaths have not been posted.--Johnsemlak (talk) 20:25, 3 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Oppose. There must a hundred actors and actresses more notable, more known, more acclaimed, more accomplished and with better articles than Mr. Postlethwaite. I have seen his death noted on several newspaper's websites, but I attribute it to a slow news day (while The Washington Post was headlining a story about President Obama's vacation going well it was running Mr. Postlethwaites death in the 'Celebritology 2.0' section). Mr. Postlethwaite is listed on the recent deaths page; that's the appropriate place. Blake the bookbinder (talk) 20:52, 3 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Oppose I agree with Johnsemlak. --Mkativerata (talk) 20:55, 3 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Support. one of the greatest actors & at the very top of his field.  untimely death after one of his most successful films ( Inception).  we too are having a slow news day so the slow news argument cancels out.--Wikireader41 (talk) 21:05, 3 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Just a comment not intended as a rebuttal: his involvement in Inception was lying in a bed for a couple of minutes and groaning a few times. --Mkativerata (talk) 21:09, 3 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

yes perhaps because he was deathly sick himself[69] the reason I had brought it up was to show that he was still active in his field and had not retired 20 years prior.  I thought that one was on your unofficial death criteria Mkativerata ? He was relatively young too.--Wikireader41 (talk) 04:51, 4 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed it is one of my criteria. In my view he fails the most important of my criteria, which is "significance" (although I grant reasonable minds will differ on this). --Mkativerata (talk) 04:53, 4 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Oppose per John. Everything combines to make this a no. Grsz 11 21:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Support If Blake the bookbinder wishes to publish his WP:OR list of the "hundreds or more actors more notable" then he can go do it somewhere. WP:NOT-AS-NOTABLE-AS-OTHER-PEOPLE is about akin to WP:OTHERSTUFF. He is a notable actor - we have a reasonable article and the event (sad death) is covered. Looks good to me. Pedro :  Chat   21:28, 3 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I'll leave it to you to assemble the list, if you really want one. You might start with people who have WON an Oscar, a BAFTA, an Emmy, an Olivier Award or a Tony Award. Blake the bookbinder (talk) 22:20, 3 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose  redacting support per Blake the bookbinder. Its not as if British actors rarely win oscars. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 22:24, 3 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


For the record, I'm a weak support myself. Well loved, a wide range of roles, and I don't see 'not an Oscar winner' as a deciding factor (over half his career wasn't in films anyway). But I'll admit he's not the biggest name in acting. Modest Genius talk 00:16, 4 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that an Oscar shouldn't be a requirement but he wasn't won any awards as far as I can see.  Is there any other evidence that he was recognised as a leader in his field?--Johnsemlak (talk) 05:18, 4 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Awards were fairly light. The best argument for notability seems to be the intense media response - even the tabloids are talking about his Shakespeare work. But hence my weak support. Modest Genius talk 16:59, 4 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Oppose Good actor: yes.  Internationally famed, outstandingly important actor: no. Kevin McE (talk) 10:29, 4 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Support. Absolutely notable. A widely known, respected actor who's been on the screen for decades. Nightw 12:15, 4 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


At the moment the !vote is 6.5-6. It would be nice to get some more input to swing things one way or the other. Modest Genius talk 20:27, 5 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Leaning toward oppose. A good actor but I don't think he is notable enough. --BorgQueen (talk) 20:31, 5 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


December 2010 Queensland floods


BBC, Telegraph, NYT/AP, CBC, AJE

Originally nominated by Johnsemlak on December 29. Re-nominating as there was a recent hike in discussion for the event due to the fact that the floods have significantly worsened. Was archived a few hours ago. Original discussion. EricLeb01 (Page | Talk) 02:15, 3 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



Note: "More than 20 towns have already been cut off or flooded across an area larger than France and Germany, with more than 200,000 people affected." [70] Pretty much sums up the new and interesting information. EricLeb01 (Page | Talk) 02:21, 3 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Support and Speedy Post Obvious reasons The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 02:32, 3 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Support. Well, the scale of the disaster has grown and I change my vote just as promised. It seems that the archived discussion was leaning to support, and the article is good enough, so I hope to see it posted without much delay. GreyHood Talk 02:37, 3 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, this indeed got bad enough. Please suggest a blurb, otherwise I'll use something like More than 200k people are affected by floods in Queensland, Australia. --Tone 08:01, 3 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Posted. --BorgQueen (talk) 08:21, 3 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


January 2



















    

        
January 2, 2011 (2011-01-02) (Sunday)
        

        
    

    

                
Armed conflicts and attacks






                
Business and economy






                
Disasters and accidents






                
International relations






                
Law and crime






                
Politics








January 1



















    

        
January 1, 2011 (2011-01-01) (Saturday)
        

        
    

    

                
Armed conflicts and attacks






                
Business and economy






                
Disasters and accidents






                
International relations






                
Law and crime


  • Specialist prison guards and firefighters are sent into Ford Open Prison in West Sussex, United Kingdom, after 40 inmates started a riot. Part of the prison has been destroyed by fire. (BBC)





                
Politics








2011 Surgut aircraft explosion


- A Tupolev 154 explodes in Surgut, Russia, killing four people. - EugεnS¡m¡on(14) ® 12:39, 1 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



Support, once more information is available. Present reports of casualties conflict. Feezo (Talk) 13:02, 1 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Oppose, at least until more information is available. GreyHood Talk 13:15, 1 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Support - deadliest aircraft accident in 2011 to date. Mjroots (talk) 20:56, 1 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Good one. Grsz 11 21:00, 1 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Oppose relatively small incident with only 3 Killed and 4 seriously injured. Its barely scraping WP:AIRCRASH much less fit for ITN The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 22:02, 1 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Oppose, minor incident. Modest Genius talk 22:10, 1 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

A major airliner is written off with loss of life and you call it a "minor incident"?  Mjroots (talk) 22:15, 1 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

cf. Template:Aviation accidents and incidents in 2010. If we posted every time there was loss of life in a plane crash, we'd be posting roughly one a week. Modest Genius talk 22:21, 1 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Not every accident on that template involved loss of life. Many of the accidents there have survived AfDs too. Mjroots (talk) 22:22, 1 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

True, but most of them did. And I'm not contesting the existence of the article(s), just whether they should be on ITN. Modest Genius talk 22:23, 1 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I agree it passes WP:AIRCRASH but its rather small death/injury toll as our ITN stuff goes. The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 23:47, 1 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Oppose, unless is can be shown to be a terrorist act. Abductive (reasoning) 22:43, 1 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


2011 Alexandria bombing


-21 people were killed in Egypt. - EugεnS¡m¡on(14) ® 08:49, 1 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]



The event is certainly worthy of posting. The article needs to be expanded, though. Nightw 11:25, 1 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Support. Alexandria is a major port city. ~AH1(TCU) 15:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Support. Front page of many news outlets (BBC, NYT, WaPo, CBC, The Times), significant death toll in a major city where, frankly, there isn't much disruption. EricLeb01 (Page | Talk) 18:11, 1 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Support. We usually post such reports, and the article is in pretty good shape.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 19:19, 1 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Willing to post. A blurb, please. --Tone 19:40, 1 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Posted. --BorgQueen (talk) 19:49, 1 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


New United National Security Council non-permanent members



Support. Significant positions allowing for control of various important and international matters. EricLeb01 (Page | Talk) 01:10, 1 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Support obviously  per Eric The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 01:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Support with comment and question - Important international matter.  I am struck by Germany's first participation on the Security Council when they voted not to support the U.S. invasion of Iraq. [71] As this article notes, Germany is set to play a major role on the incoming council.  It also notes the push to expand the permanent membership of the council.  Question: What article do we link to? Jusdafax   02:21, 1 January 2011 (UTC) Ah, nevermind, I see it would be natural to link to United Nations Security Council. Jusdafax   02:31, 1 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

We have United Nations Security Council election, 2010. --BorgQueen (talk) 08:44, 1 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Support, new members of the the most influential body in international relations. Modest Genius talk 04:09, 1 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The article has already been updated. Posted. --BorgQueen (talk) 08:49, 1 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Euro and Estonia



    

  1. ^ "IRAN: Judiciary official says woman to be stoned for husband's murder, not just adultery | Babylon & Beyond | Los Angeles Times". Latimesblogs.latimes.com. 2010-07-12. Retrieved 2016-03-22.

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