Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2024 December 27

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December 27

Citation format for interviews - citing interviewer

Hi all -- quick question about citation/quote formatting. Appreciate any insights!

I'm using an interview of a subject of an article (Sam Gilliam) as a citation for a fact about an exhibition Gilliam held in New York in 1968. I am not using one of Gilliam's answers in the interview as the source for this detail, but rather one of the interviewer's statements. The interviewer gives details about a work from that 1968 exhibition. Is there a way to properly format an interview citation to show that I'm citing the interviewer rather than the subject, and is it in general OK to use an interview source like this, with the interviewer as the actual source of the information? And relatedly, would it be "correct" to include a bracketed statement of who is speaking if I were to include a quote from the source in the citation? Here's what I'm looking to cite/how I think it would be formatted (quote would probably be shorter), as both a long citation and harvp with a quote:

-Section of article -

• Detail about the exhibition

-Citations-

-References-

• Gilliam, Sam (September 2019). "Sam Gilliam with Tom McGlynn". The Brooklyn Rail (Interview). Interviewed by McGlynn, Tom. OCLC 49309197. Archived from the original on 26 September 2023. Retrieved 11 February 2024.

(I did some major clean-up on the Sam Gilliam article a while back before I really understood the nuances of citing interviews, doing some patching now to add in secondary sources to the few places where I accidentally used an interview as a sole citation.) 19h00s (talk) 02:53, 27 December 2024

19h00s I know nothing about citing interviews per se but in this situation I would just do something like: <ref>{{citation template filled in here}} text written by you to the effect "Citing the statement of interviewer at line 36" or timestamp 6:12 or whatever</ref>.

The whole point of citations, in my mind, is to created a network of all the data included therein, which then links to the network of data included in the sources, basically mapping the tiers of giants on whose shoulders we are standing until you reach a theoretical "beginning" AND you want to help any nerd besides you who ever cares again this much about this topic to be able to find the specific source cited in the most expedient way possible in a world where all media recycles every 15–30 years and old formats become significantly less accessible, etc.

Basically, consider yourself authorized to have a tiny quiet authorial voice in the citation explaining yourself and validating your use of the cite.

jengod (talk) 21:22, 30 December 2024 (UTC)

Small question

How do I see my edit count to articles only? Is there a script for this? TNM101 (chat) 06:37, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

@TNM101 there's a simpler way: go to Special:Contributions/TNM101, expand the "Search for contributions" menu, and select the "(article)" namespace. '''[[User:CanonNi]]''' (talk • contribs) 06:43, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

Alright thanks a lot TNM101 (chat) 06:53, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

I have done as you said, but it seems like it doesn't show the number of edits, which is what I need TNM101 (chat) 07:23, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

Go to Special:Contributions/TNM101, scroll down to the bottom, and select "Edit count" from the links there. Then scroll down to the "Namespace Totals". -- John of Reading (talk) 09:17, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

Thank you TNM101 (chat) 12:14, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

Also, see the "namespace totals" section at [1] for a nice pie chart of your contributions per namespace. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:49, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

Transclusion

Is there a way to transclude pages cross-wiki? Sangsangaplaz (Talk to me! I'm willing to help) 09:07, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

@Sangsangaplaz: No, that's not possible. The only exception is that pages at Wikipedia can pick up values from Wikidata. -- John of Reading (talk) 09:13, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

Thanks. Sangsangaplaz (Talk to me! I'm willing to help) 09:14, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

Choice of a specific value from Wikidata

Is there a way to chose a specific value when invoking from Wikidata? Lets say I have {{#property:P1843|from=Q206998}} and there are multiple values for that property. How do I chose exact one< Juandev (talk) 09:24, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

@Juandev General advice at WP:Wikidata#Inserting_Wikidata_values_into_Wikipedia_articles. It gets very technical but to get the "preferred" value of "heath" in your case you would need to use something like {{#invoke:WikidataIB |getPreferredValue |P1843 |qid=Q206998 |fetchwikidata=ALL |onlysourced=false}}, using a Lua module. Mike Turnbull (talk) 12:36, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

Infobox image with casual outfit?

Hello. I am back on the Help Desk, working on the article Glaiza de Castro, with this question:

The current infobox image depicts the subject wearing a somewhat casual (at least for some) outfit. Will the casuality of the outfit of the infobox image affect FA nomination? Because there are no other good alternatives on Wikimedia Commons...

Looking forward to a reply, thanks. Ramkarlo82 (V • T • C) 12:13, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

I don't see anything wrong with that image. There's nothing to worry about. And, TBH, I don't think it even matters at all. Hacked (Talk|Contribs) 12:15, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

@Ramkarlo82 There is nothing in the criteria for featured articles at WP:FACR that would prevent that image being used. At present, the article is only rated as "C", so it has a long way to go. It would be standard practice to nominate it as a good article first. Mike Turnbull (talk) 12:20, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

images themselves at GA/FA are more judged on if the fair use rationale (also the equivalent free usage as well) is met and if there is enough/too many images and if they have alttext. It's rarely a case of how nice the image is. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:51, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

Where can I find data on the circulation and citation rates of these journals?

Hello everyone, where can I find data on circulation and citation rates of journals from this list? Vyacheslav84 (talk) 12:21, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

It looks like you're looking for assistance for something not directly related to Wikipedia, so this isn't an appropriate question for the Wikipedia Helpdesk. However the Wikipedia:Reference desk may be able to assist. TiggerJay (talk) 05:59, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

Thank you! --Vyacheslav84 (talk) 09:58, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

apostrophes in links - pipe or no?

Consider the sentence the plot was influenced by H. P. Lovecraft's work. On The Staff of Karnath it was originally linked as [[H. P. Lovecraft]]'s and I recently changed it to [[H. P. Lovecraft|H. P. Lovecraft's]] in order to encompass the 's into the link, as I think the entire word should be linked, rather than leave unsightly (IMO) hanging non-linked text on the end of a bluelink.

User Rhain reverted, saying that this shouldn't be done, the apostrophe is not to be linked. I've looked in as many MOS and Help articles as I can, and this doesn't seem to be covered. Plenty of pipe help, but nothing that covers apostrophes being included in a link or not. Both our arguments are based on the same premise - Rhain believes the link to be better and simpler to directly link to "H. P. Lovecraft" which is simpler from a source point of view, but I think it's better to pipe and make the visual aspect better for the reader, as covered by Wikipedia:Linking dos and don'ts - Use piping to fit link text into prose. I think that precedent has been set for appending text to the link in that Wiki already does this - appending any regular text onto the end of a link automatically bluelinks the entire cheeses text even though the link is for cheese singular, just with an "s" on the end. This doesn't work for apostrophes, so a manual method can be used instead. Chaheel Riens (talk) 13:57, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

To clarify - should it be needed - I think the sentence "the cheeses were Richard Cheese's" is better presented as "the cheeses were Richard Cheese's" for the reader. Chaheel Riens (talk) 14:11, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

MOS:PIPESTYLE says Plurals and other derived names. [[apple]]s displays as apples, and this is simpler and clearer than [[apple|apples]]. Similarly: [[appeal]]ing, [[hyperlink]]ed, [[red]]dest. Some characters do not work after the link; see Help:Link for more details. Possessive is similar to plural. Its link to H:WIKILINK includes a possessive example, and the 's is outside of the wikilink brackets. Schazjmd (talk) 15:39, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

I'd missed the possessive example in H:WIKILINK, but ironically Rhain has already noted in his arguments that Help:Link is only a guideline, not a policy. Chaheel Riens (talk) 16:40, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

WP:MOS itself is a guideline, not a policy. Schazjmd (talk) 17:13, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

If there are no clear policy, it would be left to editors' own discretion. In this case, it might be better to ditch 's and use a different wording, something like "the plot was influenced by the work of H. P. Lovecraft." Tutwakhamoe (talk) 15:48, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

I think I prefer this option, but I also still believe (and I've stated this on the talk page) that in the absence of MOS policy, each editor should be free to pursue their own interpretation, so long as it doesn't become disruptive or tendentious. Chaheel Riens (talk) 16:42, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

But isn't you changing [[H. P. Lovecraft]]'s to [[H. P. Lovecraft|H. P. Lovecraft's]] a case of you overriding the previous editor's "own interpretation"? Schazjmd (talk) 17:16, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

Yes, but that's true of pretty much any change and revert for the history of an article. The defining factor in that case would be how recent are the changes - in this case the previous editor's "own interpretation" was made in 2015 here, so I'm hardly edit-warring on that count. If you want to go down that route, then isn't Rhain just as guilty of overriding my "own interpretation"? This is the problem when there is no clear MOS. Rhain has said that he thinks it unnecessary complication - so my proposal still stands that why doesn't he just not get involved? Chaheel Riens (talk) 20:05, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

I know, which is why I said "might be better", it's a personal suggestion in case a consensus can not be reached. Tutwakhamoe (talk) 17:34, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

I tend to think it's just better to reword to avoid such an issue. "The cheese was owned by Richard Cheese" etc. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:53, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

question re requests for templates at Wikipedia:Requested templates

hi. is there anyone here who watches the requests at Wikipedia:Requested templates? i have a template for a wikiproject, which i would like to modify. i appreciate any help. pls ping me if you reply. thanks! Sm8900 (talk) 15:24, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

It would seem the best place to raise that issue would be at Template talk:WikiProject History, and perhaps add a note also over at Wikipedia:WikiProject History/Task forces/Modern and Contemporary history task force so they're also aware of the conversation. TiggerJay (talk) 17:43, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

well, i am nominally in charge of both the wikiproject and the task force, so they are already fully briefed. Sm8900 (talk) 20:11, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

I've been framed!

Glancing at my contributions list a big red (−4,881) catches my eye. What? All I remember doing to Neolatino Romance was capitalizing "romance languages" and "vulgar latin" in several places (which my summary reflects). I thought, did I perhaps wipe a section by accident? But that's not it, this edit has various detailed changes that are outside my knowledge, as well as introducing at least three errors in spelling or punctuation.

So what happened? Has this happened to you? —Tamfang (talk) 22:11, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

@Tamfang: You probably clicked edit while viewing an old revision and made these changes. All later edits are discarded when you edit an old revision. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:35, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

In the words of a more prominent American, D'oh! —Tamfang (talk) 02:08, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

That's a weird article. It's about a language. Its only references are in the lead section, despite recommedations that a lead should summarise the rest of the article and should not normally include references. It offers no evidence that anyone has ever used the language, even in a work of fiction. Maproom (talk) 23:01, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

Agreed, it appears to be wholly not-GNG at this point. There does appear to be more information over at Pan-Romance language § Romance Neolatino but is still entirely primary sourced, with no coverage otherwise. Should probably be put up for a redirect. TiggerJay (talk) 05:52, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

@Tamfang - you were not framed, but probably made an accident while editing. No big deal as someone else already noticed it and reverted the removed information. In the future, I would suggest always reviewing the page after editing to make sure accidents didn't happen, so that you can fix them before other people. I find that I make more of these sorts of mistakes when I edit using a mobile device. It only becomes concerning when this occurs more than once in a while, and again, if you fix it right away, then no harm is really done. TiggerJay (talk) 05:57, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

It'll be a warm day in Antarctica when I try editing on a mobile. —Tamfang (talk) 08:56, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

Tamfang, I have made over 100,000 edits from sunny California using smartphones, which are just small hand-held computers that work perfectly fine, with a little practice, for editing Wikipedia. Cullen328 (talk) 17:40, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

That's nice. Perhaps your fingers are smaller than mine, or you find it easier to look through a keyhole. —Tamfang (talk) 21:14, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

Tamfang, I am 6'3" tall and weigh 250 pounds. My fingers are proportional to my body size - quite large. Also, the screen of my smartphone is a couple of orders of magnitude larger than a keyhole. Cullen328 (talk) 18:58, 30 December 2024 (UTC)

How, just how do you manage Cullen328. It pains me, but I do it once in a while and it takes me three times as long, at best. But maybe I'm just too fast on a traditional keyboard. Cheers! TiggerJay (talk) 01:16, 31 December 2024 (UTC)

@Tamfang, it might be time to try editing on your mobile phone:

”Antarctica Melts Under Its Hottest Days on Record.” Augnablik (talk) 08:40, 30 December 2024 (UTC)