Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2021 January 12

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January 12

Question about cooking show

FYI

 – Heading added, section has been malformed; original question missing. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 17:47, 15 January 2021 (UTC)

Hi, Nina Schroeder, you've posted on Wikipedia, not whichever show you're referencing (which is not affiliated with said show). Perhaps you meant to post somewhere else? —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 00:31, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

It's not a good idea to post your contact details on a public forum such as this. You never know how they could be used. JIP | Talk 01:01, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

Spelling

Why is it MO for NY. I’ve notice that if a person is either born or dies on NY instead of NY it’s MO? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.113.21.195 (talk) 01:37, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

What's the context behind this? —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 01:45, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

It's not. Where are you seeing this, 98.113.21.195? —[AlanM1 (talk)]— 05:17, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

Why isn't DEFAULTSORT ordering working in this category?

I'm working my way through Category:Wikipedia articles incorporating a citation from Newgenbio with a missing parameter, adding volume and page numbers to references that lack them and noticed something odd. Some of the articles are listed in straight alpha order instead of respecting the DEFAULTSORT contained in the article. For example, Thomas Acton appears under T instead of A. He has a DEFAULTSORT defined, and appears properly listed in other categories he's a member of, but not this one. Other articles, for example Laurens Bake, do make use of DEFAULTSORT ordering.

What is happening here? Is there any way to fix it? Chuntuk (talk) 01:54, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

@Chuntuk: This is phab:T40435: "Sortkey for categories is ignored when category is inside a <ref> and DEFAULTSORT comes after <references/>". Thomas Acton was fixed by moving DEFAULTSORT before <references/>.[1] This was just a test. I don't recommend doing it. If a category is added inside a reference then it's nearly always a hidden maintenance category not seen by readers on the article unless they have an account and enable "Show hidden categories" at Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-rendering. PrimeHunter (talk) 09:50, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

Thanks, though I'm mystified as to why Laurens Bake (and several other articles) are correctly sorted, when they also have DEFAULTSORT after references. Oh well, I was hoping it might be something about the markup of the category page that I can fix - as it is, since I'm aiming to empty that category I'll just put up with it. Chuntuk (talk) 10:15, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

@Chuntuk: Laurens Bake doesn't have {{Cite Newgenbio}} inside a <ref> so the issue doesn't affect her. PrimeHunter (talk) 10:32, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

I have documented the issue at WP:DEFAULTSORT.[2] PrimeHunter (talk) 10:42, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

Australian Institute of Polish Affairs

I just noticed that the page for our very reputable organisation - Australian Institute of Polish Affairs (https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Australian_Institute_of_Polish_Affairs#:~:text=The%20Australian%20Institute%20of%20Polish,cultural%20life%20in%20Poland%20today.) has been suddenly deleted. We suspect that this may be a result of a malicious effort by someone critical of our organisation’s principles and outlook. Could we request that the page is restored. The warning on Talk came during the busy Christmas/New Year period so we missed the 7 days given to object this deletion. I think, there were previous unsuccessful attempts to delete this website. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alex Dee (talk • contribs) 03:41, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

Alex Dee, you can ask for a WP:REFUND from the deleting admin Liz, but just be ready to address her concerns that the article fails organisation notability, and that reliable sources should be found to establish notability. (Please remember to sign your posts on talk pages by typing four keyboard tildes like this: ~~~~. Or, you can use the [ reply ] button, which automatically signs posts.) —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 04:05, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

Hello, Alex Dee. Please don't assume malice. The deletion log says "Non-notable organization, could not find sources to suggest notability. Fails WP:ORG" - in other words, there do not seem to be enough independent reliable sources about the organisation to provide the basis for an acceptable encyclopaedia article. Remember that Wikipedia is not interested in what the subject of an article says or wants to say about themselves, or what their associates say about them. Wikipedia is only interested in what people who have no connection with the subject, and who have not been prompted or fed information on behalf of the subject, have chosen to publish about the subject in reliable sources.. Not every organisation has been written about enough to meet those requirements. --ColinFine (talk) 12:09, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

Wikipedia is broken, why no one wants to fix it?

I posted a new topic yesterday but the aether bunny ate it and now it is missing.

Charts on all pages are missing also. I wrote about this a few days ago, but no one wants to fix it. Someone changed something and broke Wikipedia just recently, can you please fix it.

The above comment is signed by Firdaus Bin Mohammad, 2021-Jan-12 Thanks for your attention — Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.187.94.75 (talk) 05:06, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

It's most likely #All charts are missing on all pages. Please continue discussion there if it is. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 06:38, 12 January 2021 (UTC) Archived.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 23:20, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

Graphs made with mw:Extension:Graph require JavaScript in your browser now. A January 8 post at phab:T242855 says "Drop ability to attempt server-side rendering with Graphoid". PrimeHunter (talk) 09:06, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

Tricky issue

Not sure what to do about this one. The article Rideshare Drivers United was until recently about the American Rideshare Drivers United. That org has a website here. Then the Australian organization called Rideshare Drivers United came along to claim the article and promotionally edit it to say the Australians are the boss of Rideshare United. Their web site, for reference, is here. I have added good sources to the article, but it turns out the article may not be correct as it is mixing mentions of the organizations. Ideas? I was thinking it might be good to move it to draft until they get their act(s) together vis-a-vis naming. Possibly (talk) 05:15, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

@Possibly: If both organizations are notable, then we need two separate articles. The question is how to get there. I propose that you revert the article back to the latest version that was still "pure" US, and then move the article to Rideshare Drivers United (US). Then, create Rideshare Drivers United (Australia)) by copying the content of the last-but-one version (attribute your copy on the article's talk page) and removing the US stuff. Finally, edit the redirect page that was left from the move to turn it into a disambiguation page. If the Australian article has questionable notability, then nominate it for deletion. All of this "extra" work will minimize any bickering with the Australian editors. -Arch dude (talk) 16:26, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for the good advice @Arch dude:. I moved the page to Rideshare Drivers United (California) as the US org seems to be only active in that state. I'll have a look later at whether there is enough sourcing for Rideshare Drivers United (Australia). Possibly (talk) 20:06, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

Editing on Android

I've been contributing to Wikipedia for a while via desktop, so I generally know my way around the site. however, I'm having issues editing on my Android phone, which I'd like to do. I can use the main desktop site in my browser, but that's obviously not a great experience. both the mobile site and the app feel like they're a lot more designed for readers than editors, for example, I can't easily view page history in the app. any recommendations? Elliot321 (talk | contribs) 06:00, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

@Elliot321: My recommendation is always to use the desktop mode, and to set a responsive skin (monobook or timeless) in your preferences. The funny thing about those two is that they are able to adjust the viewport and the menus based on the avalable screen width, so that everything will fit. You can test this out (on a desktop broswer) by opening this link or this link and making the window smaller. Victor Schmidt (talk) 06:39, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

Restore material

My article was deleted because I used different language. I wrote on ru.wikipedia in english. I want my text back! I worked a long time on it!! I want to save it for myself!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tilessova (talk • contribs) 10:02, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

I can't find any deleted materials from this account - just this one singular edit. However, the English wiki is not ru.wiki - you will have to write in English. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 10:12, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

If you wrote your article on Russian Wikipedia, Tilessova, then it will have been deleted in Russian Wikipedia, and you will have to ask for it to be restored to you there: nobody on English Wikipedia can help. You probably want to start by asking at ru:Википедия:Форум/Вопросы. --ColinFine (talk)

@Tilessova: The page has been restored and moved to ru:User:Tilessova/Orbis Kazakhstan. See Wikipedia:Articles for creation for how to submit an article for review in the English Wikipedia. It should satisfy Wikipedia:Notability (organizations and companies). PrimeHunter (talk) 21:37, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

The information aboud my bio is incorrect

Hello,

I writing to object about my bio information on wikipedia, My name is Jamaluddin Badr the former governor of Nooristan province. In wikipedia my bio appears with corruption allegation, after legal invistigation by afghan court I was acquited and declared clear from any allegation. I am attaching court desicion for your consideration and please edit my bio with supporting docs that are attached.

https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Jamaluddin_Badr

thank you

Jamaluddin Badr — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.172.5.154 (talk) 10:23, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

Please visit the talk page of the article about you and make an edit request(click for instructions) detailing the changes you wish to make, and any independent reliable sources you have to support them. Court documents are considered primary sources. 331dot (talk) 10:27, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

i am free editor

i am just making a page and this is gone in speedy deletion. please help me to complete this any one here help me please url of page is https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Chirag_shah . — Preceding unsigned comment added by Indobrothers (talk • contribs) 14:21, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

Note - editor blocked for repeated attempts at promotion. --ColinFine (talk) 15:20, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

Asking for the effect of a table template

There is a table that is in the Chinese Wikipedia (I ask here because I got no answers in the wiki), but there are some effects I don't know how to make. Here is the table.

1. There are 60 columns in the table, and I set "2%" trying to make the content having same width, but it turns out it can't, especially the ones with only one digit. By the way, this happens specifically in Chrome when the web page view zooming is 100%. - George6VI (talk) 15:42, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

number of edits compared to oldid?

I was looking at Wikipedia:Time_Between_Edits#Projections. It has one number for NUMBEROFEDITS and a different, larger number for oldid. What is the meaning of these two values, why are they different, and which one is closer to the actual edit count for Wikipedia? RudolfRed (talk) 16:47, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

@RudolfRed: they refer the same thing, though because of implementatiosn, they are different. NUMBEROFEDITS refers to the total number of edits saved in the database (i.e. the number of entries in the revisions database table), oldid refers to the largest revision number currently in use. They differ (at least from my knowledge) because the revision numbers (oldid) aren't retained when a page is deleted. Instead, they are given new oldid numbers when they are undeleted, which means they increase the maximum oldid currently in use, even though they are technically no new edit. Deleted edits are kept seperate by page title and edit timestamp. Victor Schmidt (talk) 17:03, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for the explanation! RudolfRed (talk) 17:48, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

@RudolfRed and Victor Schmidt: Admins cannot access deleted revisions by oldid but the oldid is kept if the revision is restored, at least currently. See for example oldid's in the page history of Draft:Boyertown Grizzlies which was recenly restored. According to [3], {{REVISIONID}} was "over a hundred million less" than {{NUMBEROFEDITS}} in January 2017. Today {{REVISIONID}} is around 4.7 million larger than {{NUMBEROFEDITS}}. I don't know what causes the difference. Wikipedia:Statistics displays {{NUMBEROFEDITS}}. It has been archived many times at https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Wikipedia:Statistics. 6 February 2017 it said 873,239,337. A sandbox edit at the time: https://wiki.riteme.site/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Sandbox&oldid=764067289. That's 109 million less so it's a good match to the earlier quote. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:16, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

I thought I read that some time ago, though it might have been fixed since. I can't go on a hunt right now, because I don't have the time. Victor Schmidt (talk) 22:06, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

IIRC, a long time ago, there was a problem or two that caused duplication or skipping of revids. If it's like other database apps, there can be other reasons why some ids don't get used. Specifically, an id might be allocated to an insert that doesn't occur for some reason (failure, cancellation, etc.), and that id might not be re-used unless the app is specifically coded to handle this (usually a real pain to implement, and not worth doing unless it's a very common occurrence and there is a concern about running into the max value of the id within the lifetime of the app). —[AlanM1 (talk)]— 22:53, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

Mescalero Sands Natural National Landmark update

Extended content

I am Museumsmithc, 164.47.227.50 and after receiving input from Ivanvector on January 5, 2021 I have reduced the content of my submission taking out any reference related to my personal activities concerning the establishment of Mescalero sands Natural National Landmark. Only my publications remain which are necessary to the original fieldwork. I have taken the liberty to attach the newest version for your editing hoping you can give me direction on where it should be submitted, e.g. in the initial description of the Wikipedia article reserved for the NNL, or as a "Featured Article", or one of the "Protected Areas"? I prefer to place it in the former location as that is where most people will search for the information surrounding the area. I had already pursued the links suggested, Mescalero Ridge, which does not give information about the south dune field; Mescalero Sands, which is limited to the north dune field; and the National Natural Landmarks of New Mexico which, as observed, does not link to the "Mescalero Sands South Dune". I have an additional ~ 60 more references but the ones included are the most relevant for this purpose. Mescalero Sands National Natural Landmark The Mescalero Sands National Natural Landmark lies just below the western edge of the Llano Estacado known as Mescalero Ridge, locally called "The Caprock". U. S. Highway 380 bisects this sandy region located midway between Roswell and Tatum, New Mexico. The most outstanding physiological feature from Mescalero Point, 4,511 feet above sea level are three very light-colored mobile dunes named the Mescalero Sands by early pioneers and travelers through the area. The dune field is located 10 miles west of the small combination Post Office and general store of Caprock, New Mexico and from 6 to 10 miles south of U. S. 380. A separate mobile dune field is located just south of U. S. 380, 36 miles east of Roswell, New Mexico is open for All Terrain Vehicles (ATV's). The 610-acre recreational area designated by the Bureau of Land Management as the Mescalero Sands North Dune Off Highway Vehicles (OHV) Area [17.,18.]. The three main dunes are located at the extreme northern limits of the Chihuahuan Desert and peripheral grasslands environment of the southern end of the Great High Plains making it ideal for ecotonal studies. The climate is typically semi-arid but influenced by both the Upper and Lower Sonoran vegetative groups with mesquite, creosote bush and occasional juniper with dominant "Quercus harvardii", called shin oak or shinnery, surrounding and separating the dune fields. The rainfall averages 15 inches a year and 200 days without a killing frost from April to October. The potential evaporation can reach 33 inches per year considering the 60-70 percent of sunshine. Temperatures are generally mild but can range from 110 to minus 25 degrees Fahrenheit [2.b., 2.c., 8., 14.]. From Mescalero Point to the base of Mescalero Ridge the escarpment drops off steeply to 4,200 feet or about 300 feet to the sandy environments. There is a slight downward topographic change westward to the Pecos River approximately 40 miles away with a channel altitude of 3,600 feet at this point in its drainage. The escarpment is essentially composed of the Dockum-Lykins formation of the Upper Triassic and is overlaid by the Ogallala formation which is of a limestone composition commonly referred to as caliche which is of Pliocene age. There are Permian outcrops in the breaks around the Pecos River but the sandy regions are from Quaternary origins composed of Pleistocene and Altithermal period Aeolian deposits created during the Altithermal some 7,500 years ago. Unlike the White Sands National Monument to the west of Alamogordo, New Mexico which are composed of gypsum, the Mescalero Sands are fine grain quartz attributed to the Monahans deposition. They overlay the Judkin formation of the mid-Wisconsin glaciation some 18-20,000 years ago and are from lake beds that have been dated from snail samples to approximately 13,000 years ago [9., 12.b.]. The oak forest of shin-high, Quercus harvardii, stabilizes most of the dune field with only a few mobile dunes which, due to the prevailing southwesterly winds move up to ten feet a year to the northeast. The dunes themselves are normally Barcan in form, reaching heights of 60-70 feet, but as they move perpendicular to the winds they become lenticular in shape. Being just above the alluvium, moisture bearing strata, there are a few seep springs within the three main dunes and windmills are pumping water from 35-65 feet deep. There were many springs at the base of the escarpment during the historic settlement period at the turn of the 20th century and best known was Mescalero Springs which supplied ample water for large herds of cattle and horses, but they rarely flow currently. The springs and atmospheric moisture running away from the escarpment never reach the Pecos River, with the sand serving as an entrapment thus all water percolates into shallow sub-surface catchment basins. The wetness within the sands may also contribute to the vast quantities of fulgurite found in the mobile dunes. Often called "petrified lightning" these tubes of glass are formed when lightning strikes the sand [1., 8., 12.b, 12c., 12.d.]. The earliest evidence of humans occupying the region is from the Clovis-Folsom Paleo period from 13-11,500 years ago. Although there are remains of mammoths eroding out of the Judkin "hardpan" three miles south of the south dune and fragments of one at the edge of the remnant lakebed in the south dune there is no evidence of direct association with humans. There was, however the base of a Folsom Point found in the center dune. It is believed that the lakebed(s) forming the three main dunes were still active until the end of the Pleistocene or at the boundary of the Holocene [12.a., 15.]. The Archaic Period appears to have been temporary occupations from the west and south with few concentrations representing the early Holocene up to the Formative Stage when large amounts of arrow points, pottery and tools are common on the surface throughout the immediate area. Several middens have also been surveyed and reported just below the escarpment mostly to the south. There is also evidence of later Native American cultures such as Comanches and Apaches utilizing the Llano Estacado and the edge habitat the sands offered in alternative resources [12.a.]. The first European contact was during the Spanish Colonial Period from early 1600's through the early 1700's when "Pearlers" made treks from Santa Fe down the Pecos River to lower Bosque Grande where the Sacramento River (now the Rio Penasco) flows into the Pecos River they then cut across the sands to the escarpment with fresh water and onto the treeless and waterless "Staked Plains" on over to the eastern edge of the Llano Estacado and down to Tobacco Creek ending up on the Concho River where they collected freshwater pink to purple pearls, one of the few treasures they were able to send back to Spain [12.d.]. The southern end of the western escarpment was described by Captain C. L. Taplin in March, 1854, who was assistant to Captain John Pope who was in command of exploring the southern route for the Pacific Railroad Survey. He found the travel extremely difficult discouraging any further wagon or rail passage through the area and early maps indicated, "Void of Wood and Water" that prevented homestead settlement in the region for many years. Lieutenant Colonel William Shafter entered the area in 1875 in an attempt to push the Apaches onto the reservation in the Sacramento Mountains and discovered "Dug Springs" where indigenous people had dug out several springs as well as Monument Springs where there was a natural flowing spring both at the southern edge of the escarpment [10., 12.d.]. The first permanent resident of the Mescalero Sands was a buffalo hunter named George Causey. He had built a house in Yellowhouse Canyon west of present-day Lubbock, Texas and established a camp at the springs near Ranger Lake north of Tatum, New Mexico but sold out to the Littlefield Ranch and he and his brother John built a way station just north and below Mescalero Point as a stopover and resting location for freighters transporting goods from the nearest railhead in Midland, Texas to Roswell, New Mexico. Another prominent figure in the settlement of the Mescalero Sands was a character called "Old Man Harry", an English sailor who jumped ship and swam to Padre Island, Texas and made his way up to the Littlefield Ranch and eventually established a herd of his own and built a rock house east of the south dune at the base of the escarpment just south of Mescalero Springs. He was remembered for having the only phonograph in the area before he was buried just north of his house where the marker reads: "AT REST HARRY ROBINSON BORN KENT CO ENGLAND JAN 9 1836 DIED AUG 3 1911 Out of Sight but Memory Never". Another one of the original Anglo settlers was Clyde Browning, who moved to just below the escarpment as a child when his father homesteaded in the 1880's south of Old Man Harry's place [16.]. Just after the turn of the 20th century "nesters" began to take advantage of the strips of free government land that were found between the larger ranches, often under the protest of gunfire. One of these homesteaders was a man by the name of Lon Levi who in the 1920's lived in a dugout on the east side of the north dune. He plowed a field and planted subsistence crops which included watermelons. Some of his farming equipment that remained consisted of a planter and a rake which perpetuated the erroneous story that a wagon train had been attacked by Indians because of the quantity of flint "arrowheads" that had been found in the hollows or "blowouts" adjacent to the field. Although a motorized vehicle got stuck between the Causey way station and Roswell and the occupants had to be rescued, there is no verifiable evidence of a wagon train being endangered in the area [11., 12.b., 12.c., 12d.]. Near the old field the last of an elk herd that had been brought in by Joe Lane who owned the Four Lakes Ranch northwest of Tatum had escaped their compound and made their way down into the sands in the late 1940's and survived until the 1960's when the last old cow was killed. She had been feeding with the cattle and was shot and left by poachers and the antlers of the last bull were at the Culp Ranch just west of the north dune [7., 12.b., 12. c., 12.d.]. Extensive research was conducted from 1965 – 1970 within and adjacent to the three mobile dunes making up the south dune field under the direction of the Paleoindian Institute and the Natural History Museum at Eastern New Mexico University. Over 300 cultural artifacts and natural history specimens were collected and place in the repositories of the two entities. One of the objectives was to determine if the Whitetailed deer inhabiting the area were a unique subspecies and while two of the deer were captured and released with collars that could be seen during aerial surveys there was not enough conclusive serological evidence to prove their taxonomic separation from other, Odocoileus virginianus, species. However, the studies did justify the establishment of the three main dunes as an Outstanding Natural Area (ONA) by the Bureau of Land Management [2.a., 4., 5., 6., 12.b., 12.c., 12.d.,13.]. It was a small lizard, which had been taken during the summer of 1967, that helped establish the 6,293 acre preserve, now accessible only by foot or horseback and secure the dune’s permanency for future generations. The Dunes Sagebrush Lizard, Sceloporus arenicolus, (occurring, burrowing or inhabiting in sand) was declared threatened by the U. S. Fish and Wildlife Service with a great deal of pressure from numerous conservation societies and organizations but has been pulled from the list until further research on the species can be conducted [3. and 19.]. The three main dunes were declared a National Natural Landmark in 1982, as “The best example of an active sand dune system in the southern Great Plains” [17.]. References 1.) Bagnold, R. A., 1941, The Physics of Blown Sand and Desert Dunes, Methuen, reprinted by Springer, 1974, 256 pp. 2.a.) Bailey, Vernon, 1931, Mammals of New Mexico, North American Fauna, No. 53, U.S. Department of Agriculture, Bureau of Biological Survey, U. S. Government Printing Office, 412 pp. 2.b.) 1913, Life Zones and Crop Zones of New Mexico, North American Fauna, No. 35, U. S. Department of Agriculture, Bureau of Biological Survey, U. S. Government Printing Office, 100 pp. 2.c.) 1905 Biological Survey of Texas, No. 25, U. S. Department of Agriculture, Bureau of Biological Survey, U. S. Government Printing Office, 262 pp. 3. Chan, Lauren M., J. Archie and Lee Fitzgerald, 2013, Review of the Systematic Status of Sceloporus arenicolus, Degenhardt and Jones, 1972 with an Estimate of Divergence Time, Zootaxa, Vol. 3664, pp. 312-320 4. Findley, James S., Arthur H. Harris, Don E. Wilson and Clyde Jones, 1975, Mammals of New Mexico, University of New Mexico Press, Albuquerque, New Mexico, 360 pp. 5. Hall, H. Ernest, 1944, Sandhill White-tailed Deer Restoration, Project Record Report, New Mexico Department of Game and Fish, Santa Fe, New Mexico 6. Hibbler, Dr. Charles, Colorado State University, 1969, Personal communication 7. Johnson, Carl Lane, 1969, Personal communication 8. Ligon, J. Stokley, 1927, Wildlife of New Mexico Its Conservation and Management, New Mexico State Game Commission, Santa Fe, New Mexico, 212 pp. 9. Oetking, P., H. B. Renfro, D. E. Feray and A. P. Bennison, 1967, Geological Highway Maps for the Regions: Great Plains, Mid-Continent and Texas, USGS Map Series No. 2, Tulsa, Oklahoma 10. Pope, Capt. John, 1854, Route Near the Thirty-Second Parallel, From the Red River to the Rio Grande, Explored by Bvt. Capt. John Pope, Top. Engineers, in 1854, 52 pp. 11. Rogers, Walter, 1968, Personal communication 12a.). Smith, Calvin B., 1966, The Paleo-Indian in Southeastern New Mexico, Transactions of the Second Regional Archaeological Symposium for Southeastern New Mexico and Western Texas, Special Bulletin No. 1, Midland Archaeological Society, pp. 3-8, Midland, Texas 12.b.) Smith, Calvin B., 1971, Mescalero Sands Natural Studies Plan, Natural History Museum and the Paleo-Indian Institute, Eastern New Mexico University, 50 pp. 12.c.) Smith, Calvin B., 1971, Proposed Study Area in the Mescalero Sands, Southeastern New Mexico, New Mexico Academy of Science Bulletin, Vol. 12, No. 2, pp. 19-20 12.d.) Smith, Calvin B., 1985, To Save A Dune, The Greater Llano Estacado Southwest Heritage, Vol. 14, No. 1, Hobbs, New Mexico, pp. 5-3, 12 and 19 13.Taylor, Walter P., 1965, The Deer of North America, The Wildlife Management Institute, Washington D. C., 668 pp. 14. Tuan, Yi-fu, Cyril E. Everard and Jerold G. Widdison, 1969, The Climate of New Mexico, State Planning Office, Santa Fe, New Mexico, 169 pp. 15. Wendorf, Fred, Alex D. Krieger, Claude C. Albritton and T. D. Stewart, 1955, The Midland Discovery: A Report on the Pleistocene Human Remains from Midland, Texas, University of Texas Press, Austin, Texas 139 pp. 16. Whitlock, Vivian, 1970, Cowboy Life on the Llano Estacado, University of Oklahoma Press, Norman, Oklahoma, 320 pp. External links • www.example.com 17. National Park Service, 1982, “Mescalero Sands South Dune”, National Natural Landmarks, https://www.nps.gov/subjects/nnlandmarks/site.htm?Site=MESA-NM 18. Bureau of Land Management, 2020, "Mescalero Sands North Dune OHV Area" https://www.blm.gov/visit/mescalero-sands-north-dune-ohv-area 19. Biological Diversity, 2011, "Dunes Sagebrush Lizard" https://www.biologicaldiversity.org/species/reptiles/dunes_sagebrush_lizard/index.html

-- 164.47.227.50 (talk) 17:47, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

If you have suggestions for an article, start a discussion on that article's talk page (and don't just post a big wall of text, explain what changes you want). If you are trying to start a new article, follow WP:YFA for guidance on that and use the wizard there to create a draft. RudolfRed (talk) 17:50, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

you as info are not judge and jury

Sedition - Wikipedia n 6 January 2021, in an attempt to stop the formal certification of the electoral votes for Joe Biden in the US Presidential election of 2020, a group of right-wing protestors, encouraged by or at the behest of the outgoing president, Donald Trump, infiltrated the United States Capitol and overpowered the Capitol Police. Michael Sherwin, the US Attorney for the District of Columbia, told the Associated Press: "All of those charges [sedition, unauthorized access, theft of federal property] are on the table... We’re not going to keep anything out of our arsenal for potential charges. We will bring the most maximum charges we can based upon the conduct." [65] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.144.232.114 (talk) 18:22, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

I'm not really clear on what this is meant to be discussing. Wikipedia is not a judge and jury. It is an encyclopedia that summarizes what independent reliable sources state. If you feel that an article inaccurately summarizes what sources say, please discuss it on the relevant article talk page. 331dot (talk) 18:28, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

Looks like yet another of those far-right zealots accusing Wikipedia of a pinko leftist communist bias. JIP | Talk 19:05, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

The poster is quoting from Sedition#United States but missed "O" in "On" at the start. You can post suggestions for the article at Talk:Sedition but include reliable sources. PrimeHunter (talk) 19:57, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

Should football club article names be transliterated, if they are from a country that doesn't use a Latin alphabet?

There is an inconsistency in article names of football clubs that use the Cyrillic script, the issue is with their transliterations.

For example, FK Partizan is a Serbian football club, its full name is Fudbalski klub Partizan , which is a transliterated from (Serbian Cyrillic: Фудбалски клуб Партизан). FK Vardar is a North-Macedonian football club, its full name is Fudbalski klub Vardar coming from (Macedonian: Фудбалски клуб Вардар). The majority of articles about football clubs in Serbia and Macedonia, who both use the Cyrillic script abbreviate Fudbalski klub as FK.

However, when it comes to countries such as Bulgaria, Russia, Ukraine, who also use the Cyrillic script, many football article names are transliterated as FC. For instance, PFC CSKA Sofia stands for Profesionalen Futbolen Klub CSKA Sofia (Bulgarian: Професионален футболен клуб ЦСКА София). Taking into account romanisation laws the aforementioned club name should be abbreviated as PFK CSKA Sofia. An example with a Russian club is FC Zenit Saint Petersburg, in Cyrilic that would be (Russian: Футбольный клуб «Зенит»), transliterated as Futbolʹnyi klub Zenit. However, the wrong transliterations write ФК as FC rather than FK. I assume in an attempt to translate the club's name and use the English spelling of "football club".

Other non-Latin alphabet countries, like Greece have opted for a different approach, where they just use the English naming customs. For instance, Greek club Olympiacos F.C. uses the typical "F.C." after its name, rather than a transliteration. Whereas countries like China and India brand their clubs in English.

So many article names are wrong as a result of faulty transliterations, should their names be altered?

Divpatok (talk) 18:47, 12 January 2021 (UTC) Divpatok

Different clubs from different countries speaking different languages, which all happen to use Cyrillics, might perhaps transliterate them into Latin script in different ways.

Bearing in mind that on the English-language Wikipedia we use the most common forms of names found in English, rather than those that might be more technically "correct", I suggest that we should follow what the clubs themselves have used in any English-language material they may have produced, or failing that what authoritative English-language newspapers (for example) have used.

However, that's only my off-the-cuff response: have you looked for guidance at any of the Association Football WikiProjects? {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.200.40.9 (talk) 19:30, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

This sounds like a case of WP:TRANSLITERATE and WP:COMMONNAME apply here. For another example, see Beitar Jerusalem F.C. Shushugah (talk) 19:38, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

2021 NCAA Division I FBS football season

What No 2021 NCAA Division I FBS football article the 2020 season ended last night. 68.102.42.216 (talk) 19:32, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

Feel free to write the article. We are all volunteers and we each do whatever tasks we want to do. See WP:YFA. -Arch dude (talk) 19:35, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

Rollback doesn't use the edit summary it asks me for

When I rollback a user's edits, I'm asked for an explanation, which I consistently submit. Where do such explanations end up? Not in the diff, where the user might benefit from it. Users I roll back are provided with "reverted", as far as I can tell. This curtness is likely to alienate users, particularly the newer ones who need guidance. In fact, it alienates me, by giving the impression that my explication has be preserved when it hasn't been. What happens to rollback explanations?--Quisqualis (talk) 20:10, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

Please clarify. Are you saying the edit summary for the revert is not what you entered in the edit summary box?

Since you are not a rollbcker, you cannot technically rollback edits. As to reverts I only see in your contributions that edits summaries are present for the reverted edits. Ruslik_Zero 20:26, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

It appears Quisqualis is using Twinkle. Would your explanation happen to be "Unsourced", by any chance? It appears in the edit summaries. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 20:31, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

Thanks, Tenryuu. I guess my question should have been, "why do diffs selected from some history/contribution pages not display with edit summaries, while the same diff selected from another history/contribution page will show the edit summary?" I'll find examples later today, as there definitely is some sort of intermittent-appearing failure to display the edsum for rollbacks--Quisqualis (talk) 20:55, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

It's back to my original question. This diff lacks my "unsourced" designation.--Quisqualis (talk) 22:27, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

Your edit summary (diff) includes your "unsourced" designation. The tag that says "reverted" which is applied to the edits that have been reverted is applied by the system to the reverted edit for tracking purposes, and would not include your edit summary. ~ ONUnicorn^{(Talk|Contribs)}problem solving 22:31, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

@Quisqualis: You wrote: "This diff lacks my "unsourced" designation." The diff you gave is between numbers 2 and 1 (the edit by 420Prince1012). Number 4 is your edit, "rolling back" to number 0, and the edit summary ends with "Unsourced".

No.	Timestamp	Id	Editor	Edit summary	Tag(s)
4	2021-01-12T19:56:26Z	999952611	Quisqualis	Reverted to revision 998459265 by Pvmoutside (talk): Unsourced	Undo Twinkle
3	2021-01-12T19:49:45Z	999951541	420Prince1012	Reorganizing link	Reverted
2	2021-01-12T19:49:18Z	999951462	420Prince1012	Added Blue Collar Caucus	Reverted
1	2021-01-12T18:29:00Z	999938233	420Prince1012	Added Medicare for all caucus
0	2021-01-05T13:40:18Z	998459265	Pvmoutside	External links

—[AlanM1 (talk)]— 01:09, 13 January 2021 (UTC)

My basic question now is "does using Twinkle change the format of diffs in any way, vs not using Twinkle?", given that my confusion began consequent to using Twinkle. Never mind that I need new glasses...--Quisqualis (talk) 17:52, 13 January 2021 (UTC)

@Quisqualis: Twinkle does not change the format of diffs. (Tag: Twinkle) is automatically displayed after the edit summary. That's all. Another time, please post an example from the beginning. PrimeHunter (talk) 08:33, 14 January 2021 (UTC)

How to submit a new word...

Hello. Just wondering how I would go about submitting a new word to Wikipedia? Thank you. Amy — Preceding unsigned comment added by CookMeSilly (talk • contribs) 21:27, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

You don't. GRINCHIDICAE🎄 21:32, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

@CookMeSilly: You may be more interested in Wiktionary. Seagull123 Φ 22:29, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:Wikipedia is not for things made up one day.--Quisqualis (talk) 22:32, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

Suggested citation change

Hello,

With articles of impeachment introduced yet again for the 45th president of the United States, I reviewed the Wikipedia article for Impeachment in the United States. In reading the article, I found a citation to a given line, "The President may not grant a pardon in the impeachment case, but may in any resulting Federal criminal case." This is cited under citation [35]. However, this cites an article on the website for The Heritage Foundation. Given that The Heritage Foundation is a conservative think tank and has a clear bias, I thought the objectivity of the Wikipedia article would be better suited to cite https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/artI-S3-C7-1-1/ALDE_00000037/ which explains the same point. This site is backed by the US Government and is a direct description of Article I, Section 3, Clause 7 of the Constitution. Essentially, I'm proposing using the constitution.congress.gov citation as it accomplishes the same requirement and comes from a non-biased source.

If this is not the correct forum for this question, I apologize. I ask that you please direct me to the appropriate forum.

Thank you, H — Preceding unsigned comment added by WhatsHerFace09 (talk • contribs) 22:31, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

@WhatsHerFace09: welcome to Wikipedia. The best place to suggest changes to an article is on that article's talk page. RudolfRed (talk) 22:42, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

Donor potential and subject for publication

Good day; I would like to have our Charity - Bikers Against Bullies, the largest non-gov't anti bully program (501 C3) as a part of reference in Wikipedia. We can give the copy, which we have in the past and never been published. In return, I will make a personal donation of between 250-500.00 to assist your publication. Please approach me periodically and ask, "how come you and your organization is not found on Wikipedia?"

Please advise and thanks in advance,

Flash! Co-Founder, Bikers Against Bullies/Bikers Against Bullies USA — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.174.133.186 (talk) 23:54, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

Donations do not determine if an article will be created, and if an article is created for your group, you will have no control over the content of the article. Start at WP:NORG to see if your group would even qualify for an article, and if it does, you can create a draft using WP:YFA but you will need to comply with WP:COI and WP:PAID policies. RudolfRed (talk) 00:02, 13 January 2021 (UTC)

What RudolfRed says. But look, even ₩500 is very low. Five hundred bitcoins, and you might tempt somebody. However, all of us here are virtuous -- unlike a lot of hucksters who, on other websites, will promise to provide an article if you pay for it. (These promises are fraudulent. Don't fall for any of them.) -- Hoary (talk) 00:42, 13 January 2021 (UTC)

The fact is, that if Wikipedia started taking payment for articles then it all of its credibility a free encyclopaedia would go down the drain overnight. Then what would you have paid for? An article on some website with no credibility, sounds like a waste. --Paul ❬talk❭ 11:07, 13 January 2021 (UTC)

Wikipedia articles are not for the benefit of their subjects (though obviously some subjects do get benefit from being the subject of a Wikipedia article: some others get the reverse!). The way to get onto Wikipedia is not to try and write about yourself, still less to pay (Wikipedia or anybody else). It is to become notable: to be such that journalists or scholars, off their own bat, write about you. If that happens enough, then somebody will eventually write a Wikipedia article about you. --ColinFine (talk) 11:53, 14 January 2021 (UTC)