Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2010 January 20

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January 20

Confused about deletion citeria

A political page[[1]] was posted for potential Chilean candidates for the next election, which is four years from now! Chilean elections were just concluded on Sunday. I think this page is rather pre-mature, there are no sources, etc. Is this page a good candidate for deletion? --Neon Sky (talk) 03:31, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Looks ok to me. South Bay (talk) 05:37, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Actually, I don't think so. I started to read the guidelines and it does not meat the general notability guideline, not to mentions for lack of verifiability, for bias (4 of the five candidates are leftists. I'm going to ask it be deleted. It's way too much of a premature subject. --Neon Sky (talk) 15:46, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Does WP:CRYSTAL help? – ukexpat (talk) 16:31, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Mmm, good link. Thanks.  :) I requested a speedy deletion but was declined. There is one sentence that places the article into context, according this the admin.[[2]] I'll try the deletion discussion and keep you all posted. You never know, whatever the outcome, it may help someone else out in the future as well. In the meantime, Cheers, --Neon Sky (talk) 00:37, 21 January 2010 (UTC) P.S. The whole process is daunting! --Neon Sky (talk) 00:44, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Permanently Deleting Edits from Page History

Resolved

 –  – ukexpat (talk) 16:29, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Deleting parts of a page's edit history: I'm aware that it exists by This page's deleted October 17 2009 edits. My questions are about the process in general:

1) Is there information about the process on the Wikipedia namespace? I was unable to find it.

2) Would it be possible to request deletion of parts of ones own user page history if, lets say, that page once contained information that the user now regrets putting on there, for personal reasons?

--69.157.33.227 (talk) 05:36, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

See WP:oversight, which should answer your questions. --ColinFine (talk) 08:06, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Thank you, that answers my questions. --69.157.33.227 (talk) 15:12, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Question about redundancy

I'm currently editing "Panna Tal Lake" and I'm wondering if I should change the title of the article to "Panna Tal" or leave it as "Panna Tal Lake". I ask because "tal" might mean "lake" and although the first two words aren't English, if "tal" means lake it would be the same as saying "Panna Lake Lake", which is redundant. My question is, if a noun is already part of a title but is in a different language, should the noun (like "lake") be left in or removed? Thanks. Totakeke423 (talk) 06:23, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

I'm not sure, but I think this would depend on existing usage within English. If sources for the article use the term "Panna Tal Lake", then stick with that. On the other hand, if sources in English generally omit "Lake" as part of the title, then that is probably better. I notice the article currently has no sources referenced at all, which could result in its being nominated for deletion, though a bit of googling shows both "Panna Tal" and "Panna Lake", but no results for the three-word term. Jan1naD ^{(talk • contrib)} 10:46, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

See List of tautological place names for *lots* of examples in English. The "La Brea" Tar Pits, which means The The Tar Tar Pits is just one example. But as the previous poster said, googling for the most common term is probably a good bet.Naraht (talk) 15:28, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the help. =)Totakeke423 (talk) 23:03, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Listing as a Lesbian Musician

Hi. I know I'm not allowed to write an article about myself. However, I consider myself to be a very serious member of the Lesbian Music Community and would like to be listed in your Lesbian Musicians page. Is there any way I can do that? Thanks.-Sue Doherty (The Sonic Suester) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sonicsuester (talk • contribs) 06:28, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

The categories are made up from articles in Wikipedia. So, first comes the article and then comes the addition to the category. Bielle (talk) 06:39, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

By "Lesbian Musicians page", I'm guessing you mean the Lesbian Musicians category. Categories aren't like regular pages. The lists in categories are automatically generated by certain tags in the articles. You can see all the categories that an article belongs to at the bottom of every regular article. So, in order to be listed in a category, you must first have an article in which the category tag would be placed. Dismas|^(talk) 06:41, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Before someone can create an article, they'll need reliable sources about you to cite, in order to establish your notability. Please note that this requires independent, not self published sources. If suitable sources exist, starting an article stub is usually straightforward. You can also list an wp:article request to get someone else to start it. LeadSongDog come howl 07:29, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

refer to a file in "<ref?"

Resolved

 – -Bubba73 ^{(Who's attacking me now?)}, 17:18, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

I'm trying to make a reference to File:Apollo 11 Tapes Report.pdf in Moon landing conspiracy theories - footnote #68. I can't figure out the format to make it work. Hos it is done? Bubba73 ^{(Who's attacking me now?)}, 06:46, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

 Fixed, check out the ref now, the coding is: <ref>[http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Apollo_11_Tapes_Report.pdf NASA final report on the missing Apollo 11 telemetry tapes] ([[PDF]]) ''commons.wikimedia.org''</ref>, let me know if this isn't what you wanted. Spitfire^Tally-ho! 08:45, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

This is the first time I tried linking to a PDF file and I tried 3 or 4 things. It still isn't working right for me, but I'm not sure where the problem is. If I click on it and click "Open PDF", Adobe Reader gives a blank screen and an error message about it being the wrong format. But I don't have any problem with the file directly (or from entering the link). Bubba73 ^{(Who's attacking me now?)}, 15:58, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Whoops, clicking on File:Apollo 11 Tapes Report.pdf and then "open PDF" gives the problem I'm talking about, but if I enter "File:Apollo 11 Tapes Report.pdf" into the search box it works. What is going wrong? Bubba73 ^{(Who's attacking me now?)}, 16:18, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

I think you need the raw link to the file: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a4/Apollo_11_Tapes_Report.pdf viz, <ref>[http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a4/Apollo_11_Tapes_Report.pdf NASA final report on the missing Apollo 11 telemetry tapes] ([[PDF]]) ''commons.wikimedia.org'']</ref>, rather than the link to the Commons description page -- looks like a bug to me. Or even better still use a {{Cite web}} template referring to the file on NASA's site, if it's available. – ukexpat (talk) 16:23, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

It is available from NASA, but it is slow to load from there. It seems faster to load from the Commons. Bubba73 ^{(Who's attacking me now?)}, 17:10, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

But having it on Commons may lead the conspiracy theorists to argue that it's not the original file - it's almost always better to cite to the original source. – ukexpat (talk) 17:35, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

OK, that is working as it should. Thanks. Bubba73 ^{(Who's attacking me now?)}, 17:18, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

How to create a new Infobox?

Hi, I am working in Punjabi language. I want to create a new infobox for cities. How can I search the already existing Infoboxes. And how do I create a new Infobox in case there is no Infobox currently for cities.

Machhiwara vickie (talk) 07:43, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

See Category:Infobox templates. --ColinFine (talk) 08:10, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

sports logos

there are alot of team pages on wikipedia, are we allowed to actually use team logos for new pages? thanks Ottawa4ever (talk) 11:58, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Now there is one sprawling and acrimonious debate! Generally, if the logo is considered public domain (trademarked but not subject to copyright, as in a simple typeface "UofT" logo) you can use it wherever appropriate. For copyrighted team logos, you should follow the guidelines at WP:NFCC. I believe the current state of play (heh:) is that the logo is permitted on the main article about the team [Ottawa Senators] but not in subsidiary articles such as [Ottawa Senators 2005 season]. You can get specific, possibly conflicting, advice at the copyright questions noticeboard. Franamax (talk) 12:10, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Ya it seems like it can cause problems. Prtobably best just to do the article without the logo I guess for now. Thanks for the insight Ottawa4ever (talk) 12:19, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

I'd like to use templates to obscure table syntax

(This isn't really for wikipedia but a related wiki, though I figured you guys would be best equipped to help compared to the ref desk)

Basically I have formatting around a particular heading that I'd like to continue to be editable through the regular [edit] link. Though I would like to obscure all of this table details that the average editor might be discouraged by:

{|style="font-size:100%; border:1px solid #BAC5FD; " cellpadding="0"

|colspan="2" width="45%" bgcolor="#F2F2F2" style=""|
===Title===
|}

For example, I'd like to pull off something like this:

{{Header}}
===Title===
|}

Or any other similar configuration. None of these seem to work as I'd hope

Any help? Thanks Chris M. (talk) 12:51, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

4CTechnologies is Notable

I am contacting you because I have tried in vain to add an article about a local Technology firm who has made documeneted business strides, including The Pittsburgh Business Times Top 100 Fastest Growing Companies among other awards and refereces. I keep incountering a problem when trying to post said article can you please offer some assistance.

Thank You

Stephanie Davis —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sldavis07 (talk • contribs) 16:42, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

You might like to check out WP:CORP for our criteria for inclusion of companies. If your submitted page is deleted, then you might not have shown that the subject meets those criteria. You might also like to develop the page in a userpage, or use the new article wizard. --AndrewHowse (talk) 16:52, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

You can write about any company on Wikicompany, with no requirement for notability. If Pittsburgh had a City wiki you could write about the company there, but unfortunately City wiki#Known city wikis does not list one for Pittsburgh yet. Also see Wikipedia:FAQ/Organizations. --Teratornis (talk) 19:18, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

A template for moving a comment to a different talk page

Sometimes i want to move a comment from one talk page to another, but to leave a comment on the first talk page saying where i moved it. Is there a template for that? Such a template exists in the Hebrew Wikipedia (he:תבנית:הועבר). I tried searching for an English version on Help:Talk page, Wikipedia:Refactoring talk pages, Wikipedia:User page and couldn't find it.

Thanks in advance. --Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 18:16, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

If there isn't there should be. Maybe a template wiz could adapt the one from He Wikipedia? – ukexpat (talk) 18:22, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Doh, in fact one of the options in the {{Ear}} template leaves a "moved to" message. I have thought for a while that we should use that template here as it is much more flexible than {{Resolved}} and {{done}}. – ukexpat (talk) 18:25, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

You don't really need a template wiz. It's very simple. I could translate it in five minutes. It's just that i'm very surprised that there isn't one already. It is there? --Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 18:30, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Did you try the {{Ear}} version? {{Ear|m| to [[WP:FOOBAR]]}} gives:

Discussion moved

 – to WP:FOOBAR

 – ukexpat (talk) 19:08, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Thanks! Although i would expect something more obvious. --Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 19:15, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Here's something nice that i found by random searching: {{Moved talk to}}. It is used on a surprisingly small number of pages, though. --Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 21:55, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Actually it's not that great. I guess i'll fix it. Since it's used so little, i don't think that anyone will mind. --Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 21:58, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

I just tweaked the doc to clarify that EAR refers to Wikipedia:Editor assistance/Requests. LeadSongDog come howl 05:43, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Getting company on Wikipedia

I am trying to get some information posted on Wikipedia and have not had any responses on what the status was about the new post. I am new to posting and did as the tutorial said but still have had no luck. If there is someone who is familiar with posting and would be willing to help out with getting this on the site we would definitely appreciate it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Timeless09 (talk • contribs) 19:25, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Well apart from the layout issues, the draft reads like an advertisement in violation of WP:SPAM and needs a major rewrite to be a neutral article, assuming that the company meets the notability requirements of WP:CORP, which looks doubtful to me. An alternative outlet may be WikiCompany. – ukexpat (talk) 19:32, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Hey, I was about to say that. There is another user space copy with better layout, but it is clearly advertising as written, plus probably conflict of interest. Timeless09, woulc you please look at WP:COI as well. Thanks. Dougweller (talk) 19:35, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Ok well how would we go about having someone write an article to get us on Wikipedia that would not be conflict of interest or advertising —Preceding unsigned comment added by Timeless09 (talk • contribs) 22:44, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

The company would first have to meet this specific guideline, quoted from WP:CORP above: An organization is generally considered notable if it has been the subject of significant coverage in reliable, independent secondary sources. Trivial or incidental coverage of a subject by secondary sources is not sufficient to establish notability. All content must be verifiable. A quick Google gives me a lot of advertising and blogs but not much else. Bielle (talk) 23:00, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Ok so what would we need to do as a company to be able to be in wiki. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Timeless09 (talk • contribs) 23:22, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

You could post the company's name in the appropriate space at Wikipedia:Requested articles, and see if anybody is interested in creating the article. You could also create an article in your own user space, such as at User:Timeless09/company name, then ask people to look it over. Once that's done, if the person who reviews it thinks it's good enough to go into article space, once it's moved over from your User space into article space, you should then go to the article's Discussion page and reveal your interest in the company. Woogee (talk) 00:02, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

From what I have seen so far, I just don't think the company is notable per WP:CORP - not every company is. That's why I suggested WikiCompany. – ukexpat (talk) 01:52, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Should this be posted?

Hello

I am brand new to Wikipedia and have a general question for you: If someone has information such as the example I provide below, should it be posted?

child abuse Versus the items listed which seem minor and arbitrary, these facts would seem more pertinent to the subject of controversy. A close colleague dated ------ (his daughter) in mid 90's pre-marriage and she confided in him that he (---) beat her repeatedly as a younger child. Especially bad were nights that he was being nominated for a particular award - but did not end up receiving. She (---) found it extremely ironic that he (---) at the time was earning money on the lecture circuit talking about how "so much courage and unity was used when my daughter was having heart surgery" while the truth being he was physically abusive. I have never seen mention of this in print but it was confirmed by then ex-wife ---------.

In addition, regarding any hypocritical comments made about ------- and drug use I offer this: ------ became pregnant during this same above referenced time period. The father of the child was a known drug dealer in the South Florida area at the time. It is not known whether child was carried to term or whether current husband is same person.

The above information is factual and can be verified but is regarding a very prominent sports figure. I would not want for anyone to be hurt by the posting of this information but at the same time it flies in the face of his "public" image.

signed,

curious19:42, 20 January 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.5.220.205 (talk)

This would need to be rigorously sourced to reliable sources. Please read WP:BLP too; we take this very seriously. --AndrewHowse (talk) 19:54, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Should this be posted? Absoutely not. You say that you've never seen this information in print. It cannot therefore be added to Wikipedia, because all information - particularly where living people are involved - must be based on reliable sources. This is non-negotiable. "His daughter told a colleague of mine" is, in Wikipedia terms, useless. Bencherlite^Talk 19:58, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Adverts

Are adverts okay? The article about Jilly's Rockworld is like an advert. If they are then I would like to add some adverts too. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fly by Night (talk • contribs) 20:41, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

No they are not, see WP:SPAM. – ukexpat (talk) 20:45, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Okay. I will read this page. Thank you. (~~~~)—Preceding unsigned comment added by Fly by Night (talk • contribs)

I have despammed Jilly's Rockworld a little. – ukexpat (talk) 20:57, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

tag to mark a section as non-notable?

Resolved

Is there a tag to mark a section as non-notable (as opposed to the whole article)? I want to mark the section showing the tournaments of the last six months that way at Samuel Sevian, i.e. Samuel Sevian#Latest tournaments (last six months)). What tag should be used there? Bubba73 ^{(Who's attacking me now?)}, 21:07, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

{{Importance-section}} should do it. – ukexpat (talk) 21:13, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, that should do it. Bubba73 ^{(Who's attacking me now?)}, 21:32, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Question

How do you pronounce Herbert V. Prochnow's last name? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.20.11.88 (talk) 21:50, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Have you tried Wikipedia's Reference Desk? They specialize in knowledge questions and will try to answer just about any question in the universe (except how to use Wikipedia, since that is what this Help Desk is for). Just follow the link, select the relevant section, and ask away. I hope this helps.. – ukexpat (talk) 21:52, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Contents box on my talkpage missing

 Done

Hi there. I have searched high and low and am tired out. Can someone tell me how to add the contents box to my talkpage please? Thanks in advance! --Neon Sky (talk) 23:24, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Add __TOC__ to your page where you want the Table of Contents. ~~ GB fan ~~ ^talk 23:32, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Well that was easy. :D Thanks! --Neon Sky (talk) 23:35, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Parrot Family Bird - Solid White Similar to African Gray

My wife bought this bird aprox 6 month's ago. Was told the bird was 6 yrs old. She bought the cage and everything. They bonded very well,my wife spends alot of time time with the bird.My wife left the bird with her daughter for four day's. It's been two week's know and the bird won't have anything to do with her. When my wife try's to feed her, the bird bites her. Won't sit on her shoulder or eat from her hand. My wife suffer's from depression, And the bird was a big help. My wifes daughter came over, and the bird got all excitied. My wife offerd her daughter the bird but she quickly declined. Now my wife is really depressed and can't pull her self out. I would really be grateful for a answer to this problem.

68.185.71.4 (talk) 23:28, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

The advice of a licensed psychologist will always trump the advice of some random Internet people. In addition, Wikipedia cannot give medical advice; I believe this extends to situations of this type. Sorry. Xenon54 / talk / 23:48, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Aside from the medical issues, there are other things to look into. Why not ask her daughter how she got the bird to like her? Or consult an animal trainer? LeadSongDog come howl 05:29, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Animals

Can someone point me to the notability guideline on animals? Simply south (talk) 23:36, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

I don't believe there is one, so the general notability guideline applies by default. You could ask at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Animals to see if they have any guidelines or tips in determining whether a species needs its own article. Xenon54 / talk / 23:52, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

I don't see how any particular species of animal could not be notable, unless you're talking about a single particular animal, like Rin Tin Tin. Woogee (talk) 23:59, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

As far as I can see, all species of animals are inherently notable - all of them will have reliable sources of information available if you look for them. The only criteria for deletion would be if the article is about a specific animal (for example, a famous person's pet), which has to be demonstrated as being notable enough. An example of this would Michael Jackson's chimpanzee Bubbles, who met the notability guidelines. However, Sharon Osbourne's dog Minnie does not have an article, as it fails to meet the criteria. -- PhantomSteve/talk|contribs\ 00:07, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

How about a bus riding cat? Simply south (talk) 00:09, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

I'd hazard a guess that that would be kicked into touch via WP:ONEEVENT and WP:NOTMEMORIAL unless anything else can be dragged out of the ether apart from said cat riding a bus a lot and then said cat being run over. Nanonic (talk) 00:14, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

(edit conflict) I'm thinking that it would not be notable enough for inclusion! However, I can think of one circumstance where a species might not be suitable for inclusion - if I had discovered a new species tonight, and create an article for it tomorrow - as there would be no peer-reviewed papers about it... but as soon as I had reported the species, got it officially recognised, published a paper on it, had that paper peer-reviewed, then the Phantomsteve Puma can get its article (although to avoid COI, I'd list it at WP:REQ)... you heard this here first, folks! -- PhantomSteve/talk|contribs\ 00:17, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

If you do, name it Main Page! It'll be intereting to see how the wiki would cope with that. Nanonic (talk) 00:21, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Casper was covered during his time when riding so there are sources covering not just when he died. Simply south (talk) 00:26, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

It strikes me the best place to mention Casper, with a few lines about what made him interesting, would be List of cats. The article has lots of cats that managed to become moderately famous but don't really need an article all on their own. Sabine's Sunbird talk 01:00, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

The cat has recieved (more or less) letters from all over the world concerning its death? Simply south (talk) 02:15, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Newsworthy = Yes, Notable = No, The are alot of cats that do some very interesting things and some do make it to the news however none of them have articles on Wikipedia, this is an Encyclopedia not a database for every living creature or thing, it would never make it into a paper edition so why should it be included on this website. ZooPro 03:05, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Further more i agree it could be placed on the List of cats but not have its own article. ZooPro 03:07, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

How about Macavity? Simply south (talk) 19:42, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

What about him? Please read WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. Woogee (talk) 21:34, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

I'll wait to see if anything other more notable about it turns up. Now it is on the List of cats but i was meaning look at the article especially the last part. Simply south (talk) 00:21, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Find a Practioner in Cchicago

Resolved

HI, thank you for posting this info on treatment of Lymp and Edema- my mom has a pretty bad case of this swelling although her legs and ankles are not darder in color- they have swollen to 2 times orig size. I am concerned because her doctor tells her there is nothing to do but she can not walk and it's getting worse. When I read about Sequential Gradient Therapy- I felt hopeful that this could benfit mom. Last year after being admitted for a comp in her CHF they drained 22 pounds of flulid- afterwards she was able to walk better, Where do I find a practioner who can see mom in our area to discuss this with her- she is open to trying this and is distressed about being confined to her bed and liftchair. thank you for your help. Maureen <details removed> —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.180.196.76 (talk) 23:39, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

I suspect, based on your question, that you found one of our over 6 million articles and thought we were affiliated in some way with that subject. Please note that you are at Wikipedia, the free online encyclopedia that anyone can edit, and this page is for asking questions related to using or contributing to Wikipedia itself. Thus, we have no special knowledge about the subject of your question. You can, however, search our vast catalogue of articles by typing a subject into the search field on the upper right side of your screen. If you cannot find what you are looking for, we have a reference desk, divided into various subject areas, where asking knowledge questions is welcome. Best of luck.

I suggest you look at your local yellow pages for an appropriate doctor. Any advice beyond that is not allowed, as Wikipedia cannot and does not give medical advice. Xenon54 / talk / 23:45, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

We cannot offer medical advice. Please see the medical disclaimer. Contact your General Practitioner. -- PhantomSteve/talk|contribs\ 00:17, 21 January 2010 (UTC)