Wikipedia:Good article reassessment/Sorry (Madonna song)/1

Sorry (Madonna song)

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Result: Delist, reasonable concerns with the GA criteria not actioned within a reasonable timeframe. Please fix the article up and bring back to GAN! (t · c) buidhe 11:40, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

There are several issues with the article which impacts its GA status, and its FT status by extension. Just by reading through WP:GAFAIL, the article immediately fails criteria 3, which contains a cleanup banner for a single WP:USERGEN source which has not been addressed in over 2 years. According to WP:GACR, there are a significant number of requirements which had not been thoroughly addressed in the previous review while skimming through the article:

GA1a: There are quite a few copyediting issues in each section which could be addressed at WP:GOCE.
GA1b: The lead section does not include any citations unless the information could be challenged per WP:LEAD. It is also not concise, with information about the remix and Madonna's greatest hits album not necessary for inclusion. The genres in the infobox are unsourced and need to be stated in the composition section; citations are also not used in the infobox and should instead be expanded in the above section.
GA2a: Ref [1] does not list Virgin as a publisher in the parameter; source is also not archived. The Credits and personnel section is also unsourced.
GA2b: Ref [4] is from Madonna's own website, while ref [63] is from a Madonna fan site, which is an WP:ELNO.
GA2c: Ref [45] uses MTV as a source to describe the plot of the music video, which is considered WP:OR. The source also redirects to the main page.
GA3a: The Background section seems a bit bare compared to the other sections; maybe use the liner notes from Madonna's album to write about the recording year, as the infobox parameter is unsourced.
GA4: The song seems to be placed in a positive light with the lead sentence, "Sorry" received positive reviews from contemporary critics, who declared the track the strongest song on Confessions on a Dance Floor, which is only supported by a single source. Are there no mixed to negative reviews about the song?
GA6a: There is no reason why the audio sample and music video screenshot should be included in the article, given that there is no specific commentary or purpose expanding the reader's understanding of the topic. This fails WP:NFCC#8.

Overall, there are far too many issues with the article which would take over a week to address, considering the original user is indefinitely blocked. In addition, after looking at several articles at Wikipedia:Featured topics/Confessions on a Dance Floor, there are several unsourced track listing sections in each song article. I am asking for a community reassessment, as I have only briefly skimmed the article without checking every source's validity, considering the main editor was blocked for fabricating information. As much as I would like the FT to remain, the majority of articles need to be reassessed. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 08:25, 3 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I was the original GA reviewer (2009). As one reviewer to another, I recommend applying the criteria only insofar as they are stated for the purposes of determining pass/fail. Several of the above points exceed the GA criteria. The scope of GA1a is "clear, concise" prose with correct spelling/grammar. If there is a sentence that is not understandable, it would be appropriate to highlight it here and to see if someone can figure it out. However, getting a copyedit from GOCE is not a requisite of achieving or maintaining GA status. Similarly, the GA3a threshhold is "broad", not comprehensive. What "main aspects of the topic" do you believe is missing? Also, on GA2b, the Madonna source is being used to reference a quote from Madonna so I'm not following how that is a violation of inline citations must be from reliable sources. And on GA2c, WP:OR is about referencing WP material with your own research or providing subjective analysis that is not in the cited reference (e.g. this tune is catchy), but describing the video (e.g. Madonna standing in front of neon lighted screen) is in line with MOS:PLOT. I'm not following your point on GA4...are you asking us or telling us this article is purposefully ignoring mixed to negative reviews? If there is negative criticism, please bring it forward so it can be included. Can you clarify what infobox parameter is not backed up in the Reference section? Thanks. maclean (talk) 05:23, 5 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

In accordance to GA1a, sentences such as Musically, "Sorry" is an uptempo dance song containing layers of beats and strong vocal on the chorus, The song talks about personal empowerment and self-sufficiency, and Alexis Petridis from The Guardian called the song as triumphant. Kitty Empire from the same publication said that "'Sorry' sees Madonna taking a lover to task over an insistent dance-pop rush." could be reworded. The last sentence in particular could be combined into one sentence, considering that both authors write for the same publication, which would be easier to understand. I have not thoroughly gone through the article in great detail in comparison to other GA reviewers, so they may have more feedback to address that I have not caught on to. I am aware that articles do not need to go through WP:GOCE to become a GA, but it is expected that the prose is clear, concise. In response to GA3a, the lead section contains information about the personnel and release date which is not acknowledged in the Background section. The 2005 recording date in the infobox is also not acknowledged anywhere in the article, considering that she could have recorded it prior to that year. Maybe it is best to remove it, as it may be considered WP:OR. In regards to GA2b, the first Madonna source is acceptable as long as there are no other reliable secondary sources that could be used instead, while the second source has been addressed. For GA2c, I am perfectly content with the synopsis following WP:PLOT, but not with each sentence being directly cited by the MTV source, considering that the link is broken and is WP:REPCITE. If possible, I recommend that the section be split into two subsections; Background and Synopsis, so that it would be easier to navigate for readers. GA4 was just a question regarding whether the song has received any criticism, as I have only seen one mixed review in the critical reception section. The lead sentence, "Sorry" received positive reviews from contemporary critics, who declared the track the strongest song on Confessions on a Dance Floor. has only been attributed to the MTV News article, and may be considered WP:SYNTH. Discogs is a WP:USERGEN source that should not be cited for any track listing. Preferably use Template:Cite AV media to find appropriate listings and add any missing formats to the infobox parameter "formats", which I have not seen for the 12-inch vinyl. CD promos are also not used in the section, as they are not "commercial releases" of the song. Finally, both the sample and screenshot should be removed unless there is thorough information that cannot be supported by text alone. Neither explain why both mediums should be included in the article, considering the former does not refer specifically to "synthesized" beats. While some of my above points may barely pass GAC, the articles displayed in Wikipedia:Featured topics/Confessions on a Dance Floor at first glance seem to not be GA worthy, especially Get Together (Madonna song), where the GA review was essentially barren, given that there are more problems there that are glaringly noticeable while scrolling the article, particularly in the music video section which the majority of information sourced is from a fansite, as well as the unsourced track listing and personnel section. Considering that every article was GA'd in four months before being made a FT, and the reason for the nominator's indefinite block makes me doubt the integrity of some sources. While my comments may seem harsh for a GA reassessment, other reviewers at WP:GAN#SONG have made thorough reviews to ensure that each citation style and information in each section is sourced properly. As stated earlier, I have not searched any sources to check WP:INTEGRITY or fix citation parameter improvements, so this article was deliberately placed in community reassessment for other reviewers to discuss. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 12:17, 5 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]