Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Water Under the Bridge (song)/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ian Rose via FACBot (talk) 20 November 2022 [1].

Water Under the Bridge (song)

Nominator(s): N Ø 11:11, 2 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about Adele's song "Water Under the Bridge". It was released as the fourth single from 25 late into the era, and ended up overshadowed by the gargantuan success of "Hello" and "Send My Love (To Your New Lover)" at the time. However, it was positively reviewed by critics and got its time to shine upon going viral on TikTok last year. This article was lucky and received a very helpful GA review from Ippantekina and a very helpful peer review from Aoba47. Thanks a lot to everyone who will take the time to give their feedback here.--N Ø 11:11, 2 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Aoba47

This song is included in Category:Disco songs, but I do not see any indication in the article this is a disco song.
Is Kelly Clarkson's cover notable enough for inclusion? Here are some sources (Today and Billboard).
25 should be in italics in the citations (i.e. Citation 24, 25, 27, etc.).
Billboard is not linked in Citation 43.

I hope these comments are helpful. Once everything is addressed, I'd be more than happy to support. Best of luck with this FAC! Aoba47 (talk) 20:57, 2 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I believe these should be addressed now, Aoba47. Thanks a lot for the review!--N Ø 04:01, 3 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for addressing everything. I support this FAC for promotion based on the prose. Aoba47 (talk) 05:11, 3 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Source review

per MOS:CONFORMTITLE, quotation marks should be removed in addition to italicizing album titles
NPR is italicized but Clash is not?
Billboard Brasil should be italicized
Is there another source supporting the presence of a gospel choir? In the music sample it just sounded like Adele's backing vocals to me.

The gospel choir is mentioned explicitly in PopMatters, Gigwise, Irish Mirror, and HuffPost.

Harper's Bazaar describes it as a "soulful pop song". Per WP:EXPLICITGENRE, I'm not sure it is appropriate to label it a "soul" song.

Added Billboard: "The bubbling soul anthem from Adele's third album".

"Water Under the Bridge" received generally positive reviews from music critics → source?

As with most post-album single releases, there is no article assessing the critical consensus. This is a summary statement for the paragraph so it doesn't start abruptly, "generally positive reviews" is not a controversial assessment to absolutely require a direct source.

A non-controversial assessment would be to write that critics wrote about the production, not that it was negative or positive. It's original research unless a source explicitly states that overall reception was a certain way. It annoys me too sometimes, but we have to work within the confines of the sources available. Heartfox (talk) 23:12, 4 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry but I disagree. Stating that something received generally positive reviews when 9/12 of the reviews were positive is not a controversial assessment. Saying "every review the song ever received was positive" would be a controversial take since it would be impossible to prove. See Blank Space, Delicate, and Style, etc. Although I understand where you are coming from too.--N Ø 04:02, 5 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Yes there are examples of FAs with that, but there also also FAs where "generally positive reviews" as a summary is not present because other FAC commenters spoke out about it. Nonetheless, I accept that this is a different situation than a statement like "received universal acclaim".

Thanks for compromising.

"the fourth single from 25 on the iTunes Store with single artwork" → iTunes does not indicate it being the fourth single

Heartfox (talk) 18:43, 3 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Has the possibility of including any foreign-language reviews been examined? 25 did chart worldwide. Heartfox (talk) 21:31, 5 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Sure, unfortunately those reviews did not discuss this song and fixated on the commercially successful singles and the album's sales numbers.

*Both The Independent and the Los Angeles Times have referred to it as an R&B song. Is there a reason why this genre isn't given?

LA Times does not refer to it as an R&B song, it says it has an "R&B vibe" which is accurately denoted as an influence. The Independent source is a performance review so I am not sure it is appropriate to use it as a source for the genre of the studio recording which the article is about.

I am seeing additional so-so reviews about the production that are not included in the article. For example, the Toronto Star wrote that it "probably would have managed just fine on the strength of its sticky ’80s funk riff without the windblown, Sermon From the Mount production". The Times wrote that it "has more than a whiff of 1980s cheese to it". When writing about "Easy on Me", the Financial Times said "Shorn of the bombast that marred “Water Under the Bridge”, it makes for an attractively low-key comeback." The Business Post said "There are a couple of duds too – Water Under The Bridge sounds like a forgotten 1980s dad-funk B-side..."

At this point, I am more hesitant about the statement "generally positive reviews" for the production.

Thanks for adding the sources. Just missing appropriate url-access parameters. Heartfox (talk) 00:56, 8 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Pass. Heartfox (talk) 18:40, 9 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Heartfox

"Water Under the Bridge" received generally positive reviews from music critics → The paragraph is about positive reception to the production of the song, but this sentence does not specify that.
Almost every sentence in the first paragraph critical reception section includes a quotation; more can be paraphrased.

Eliminated single-word quotes and reduced the first paragraph's quotes to only five sentences. Feel free to mention any specific sentence you think could use further work.

"Adele owned it" → feels colloquial. Maybe "Adele distinguished it" is better.
"Rolling Stone listed "Water Under the Bridge" as Adele's 18th-best song" → when? This paragraph should have an introductory sentence about retrospective/ranking reviews.
"On 22 March 2021, Kelly Clarkson covered "Water Under the Bridge" on The Kelly Clarkson Show → what does this have to do with the section heading "promotion"? Maybe "live performances" is more accurate.

Renamed "Promotion and other usage". "Live performance" does not fit most of the second paragraph which is about the TikTok trend.

Heartfox (talk) 18:43, 3 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the comments. Please check out the replies and the other changes. Regards--N Ø 08:55, 4 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

"walks the line" → change to something like "balances" per MOS:IDIOM. Heartfox (talk) 21:31, 5 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Done.--N Ø 10:08, 6 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for a truly thorough review, Heartfox. I would like some indication of when I can expect it to conclude; was that the last of your comments?--N Ø 05:51, 7 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support. Heartfox (talk) 18:40, 9 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support from ErnestKrause

The article looks like a fairly straightforward approach to examining the song for Wikipedia using generally good RS. Some comments below:

(1) Its described as a 'song' in the first sentence of the lead, though it seems your thorough description in the main sections of the article could allow you to describe the genre more precisely. Is it love song, is it a break-up song, is it a melancholy song or ballade? Something more than simply a 'song'.

(2) There is a large reliance on the use of the particle 'it' as a description for what is being discussed. Its understandable to use this particle of 'it' to sometimes describe the most recent noun to which you are referring, but using the particle several times successively might be looked at in this article. I can list these successive usages of 'it', if you need them, though you might check to see them yourself. For example, four times in the part that says: "produced it, and engineered it with Liam Nolan, Alex Pasco, and Julian Burg. Kurstin plays the bass, drums, guitar, piano, and keyboards. Tom Coyne and Randy Merrill mastered it at Sterling Sound Studios in New York City; and Serban Ghenea and John Hanes mixed it...".

(3) No Legacy section or Covers section. The song has been out there for over 5 years and I'm finding a lot of fairly well-developed covers out there; about 7-8 different vocal cover versions, and about 8-9 instrumental cover versions. You can check one of the lists for the different covers here [2].

The charts sections generally look quite good. ErnestKrause (talk) 14:16, 5 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks again for the comments. The song's genres are pop and soul, which are mentioned in the lead and the Composition section. This isn't a noteworthy enough detail to be the opening sentence as most of this singer's music is in these genres. I've now handled the successive usages of "it" in that sentence. That's a nice list of covers but none of these hit charts or drew reviews from reliable secondary sources so I'm not sure how that is an actionable comment for the FAC (See WP:INDISCRIMINATE). Regards.--N Ø 10:08, 6 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

For the Covers, Sleeping Panda actually released an album of Adele covers which is commercially sold on Amazon, and the Sarah Stone vocal cover was broadcast on one of the televised singing competitions, which might suggest a Legacy section. Its up to you since I'm now in Support. I've also just listed a FAC for the president James Madison just above your FAC here and if you have a chance it might be nice to hear your support/oppose comments there. ErnestKrause (talk) 23:07, 7 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Added a mention of the Sarah Stone cover as I found an AllMusic listing. The only way to include the Sleeping Panda cover would be retail store links which are discouraged and wouldn't prove its notability. Once again, thanks a lot for the review.--N Ø 16:28, 10 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Image and media review (pass)

File:Adele - Water Under the Bridge (Official Single Cover).png has a clear purpose in the article, a complete WP:FUR, and appropriate WP:ALT text.
File:Adele - Water Under the Bridge Clip.ogg has a complete WP:FUR and a clear role in the article as it is pointing elements of the song that readers may not fully understand through prose alone.
Would an image of Adele be beneficial for the article, like in the "Background" section?
Are there any images of Adele performing the song? If not, would it be beneficial to include an image of Megan Thee Stallion in the "Promotion and other usage" section?

Everything checks out to me. I do have a few clarification questions, but I will not let that hold up the review (although I would still appreciate an answer of course). This passes my image and media review. Aoba47 (talk) 02:51, 11 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks a lot for the media review! I think the 2021 Adele pic is a bit overused at this point, do you like any among these? I chose not to add a pic of Megan as she lacks personal involvement in the song and the mashup was fanmade, if that makes sense.--N Ø 17:14, 11 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for the response. I agree with your point on Megan. It would be different if she covered the song or was part of an official remix or video, but the fact that the mashup was fanmade (and congrats to that fan for their work) and she did not have direct involvement with the song would make an image seem out-of-place.

I also agree the 2021 picture is over-used, and while it is nice, it would be more ideal (at least imo) to get an image closer to when this song was released. Unfortunately, I do not think any of the 2016 images are particularly great, but great performance images are hard to take for a variety of reasons. Would an image of Greg Kurstin be appropriate for the "Background" section as he not only contributed to the song, but seemed to have a fundamental role in getting 25 made? Aoba47 (talk) 18:32, 11 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you so much for the suggestion. I think Kurstin is a much better fit in terms of involvement and I found a good picture of him from around the song's release in a studio, which I have now added.--N Ø 18:46, 11 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for addressing this! Aoba47 (talk) 21:07, 11 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support from Sammi Brie

A lot of comma and grammar fixes, but nothing else holds back a support !vote when that is rectified. Read User:Sammi Brie/Commas in sentences. Ping to MaranoFan. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 06:50, 13 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Adele wrote it with its producer Greg Kurstin — comma after "producer", as the name is in an appositive and could be removed without altering sentence structure.
of 1980s music, R&B, and a gospel choir, over guitars — the last comma doesn't make sense.
The song reached the top 10 in Israel, Poland, Belgium, and Iceland, and received Platinum or higher certifications in Canada, Mexico, and the United Kingdom. — remove the comma after Iceland, as you are not joining two complete sentences. User:Sammi Brie/Commas in sentences (CinS)
Adele performed it for her NBC special Adele Live in New York City, The Tonight Show Starring Jimmy Fallon, and included it on the set list of her concert tour Adele Live 2016. no parallelism. both commas must go, the first to "and on" and the second for CinS reasons.
I spotted a typo: "ouf", not "out".
Adele announced 25's tracklist on 22 October 2015, which included "Water Under the Bridge" as the sixth track. misplaced modifier. The item between the commas should go in an appositive between "tracklist" and "on".
The song was recorded at Metropolis Studios in London, with production from Kurstin, and engineering The comma after Kurstin should go.
Tom Coyne and Randy Merrill mastered it at Sterling Sound Studios in New York City; and Serban Ghenea and John Hanes handled mixing at MixStar Studios in Virginia Beach, Virginia. Either get rid of the "and" after the semicolon or convert the semicolon to a comma.
Cinquemani likened "Water Under the Bridge" to the work of Jessie Ware, and thought — remove comma, CinS
Clash's Gareth James thought that though it had a behemoth chorus — complete the appositive by adding a comma after "that"
He thought its melody resembled pop radio hits of the time, but found — remove comma, CinS
Chicago Tribune's Greg Kot found the gospel choir a sketchy addition on "Water Under the Bridge", and its — remove comma, CinS. Also add "The" before "Chicago Tribune" (but not in the italics).
Alexandra Pollard of Gigwise found the song's beat fascinating, but — remove comma, CinS
Billboard's Chuck Arnold placed the song at number 28 in a ranking of her discography, and noted — remove comma, CinS
"Water Under the Bridge" charted at number 37 on the Canadian Hot 100, and earned a 3× Platinum certification from Music Canada. — remove comma, CinS
Elsewhere, it charted within the top 20, at number one in Israel, number five in Poland, number 10 in Belgium, Iceland, number 14 in Slovenia, number 16 in Argentina, Brazil, and number 20 in Finland, Hungary. Change to Elsewhere, it charted within the top 20, at number one in Israel, number five in Poland, number 10 in Belgium and Iceland, number 14 in Slovenia, number 16 in Argentina and Brazil, and number 20 in Finland and Hungary. Too many commas right now.
"Water Under the Bridge" earned a Platinum certification in Mexico, and Gold remove comma after Mexico

Thanks for the helpful links, Sammi Brie. Should be all fixed now and if I missed one by chance feel free to fix it.--N Ø 12:59, 13 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@MaranoFan:: Looks like everything was handled. Support. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 03:39, 15 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FAC/ar, and leave the {{featured article candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through. Ian Rose (talk) 01:55, 20 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.