Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Panggilan Darah/archive1
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
- The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
The article was promoted by Ian Rose via FACBot (talk) 13:43, 16 January 2016 [1].
- Nominator(s): — Chris Woodrich (talk) 23:51, 27 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Owing to RL concerns (babies, school, work, the usual) I haven't been able to write nearly as much as I've wanted to this past year. I'm hoping to fix that this holiday with another colonial Indonesian film article. This time I bring you Panggilan Darah, a 1941 production starring Dhalia and Soerip. It casts the two as orphans who are struggling to get by, working as maids and later at a clove cigarette factory. The article is well-written, and the images are free. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 23:51, 27 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Support on prose per standard disclaimer. These are my edits. "J. B. Kristanto" or "J.B. Kristanto" is fine, as long as spacing with initials is consistent. - Dank (push to talk) 02:19, 28 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
- Thank you! — Chris Woodrich (talk) 02:20, 28 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The article as-is is excellent; I'm really trying hard to find any nitpicks. Mostly, I'm interested in a few hits I see on Google Scholar (I see one of your pieces is there, so I suspect there's little I can add!).
- Have you taken a look at Charlotte Setijadi-Dunn and Thomas Barker's "Imagining “Indonesia”: Ethnic Chinese Film Producers in Pre-Independence Cinema"? There's at least a passing mention of this film. It's from a special issue on Indonesian cinema which may be a treasure-trove of information for you. I don't personally have access to an online version, but I think (the listings aren't fully reliable...) I can access the hardcopy, if necessary. (But I'll not be at the library for a couple of weeks.)
- I've got the Indonesian-language edition of that journal (actually got it from Barker himself, at a Wikimedia Indonesia/University of Indonesia event). I'll take a look. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 01:01, 30 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
- Just listed in the bibliography. Nothing on the film itself; the focus of the article is on Kris Mataram. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 01:12, 30 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
- I've got the Indonesian-language edition of that journal (actually got it from Barker himself, at a Wikimedia Indonesia/University of Indonesia event). I'll take a look. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 01:01, 30 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
- How's your French? Another special issue on Indonesian cinema, and another mention, here.
- Rusty, but passable. I'll have a look. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 01:01, 30 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
- Alright, from my reading Ramadhan and Biran are writing that Dhalia made her debut in Panggilan Darah, but never gained the popularity of Titien Sumarni (yes, I know that's a redlink, but my mid-1950s film magazines feature one or more stories on her a month) and never became a major star. Important for her article, but maybe only worth a footnote here. Thoughts? — Chris Woodrich (talk) 01:12, 30 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
- I defer to your judgement! Josh Milburn (talk) 12:38, 2 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Alright, from my reading Ramadhan and Biran are writing that Dhalia made her debut in Panggilan Darah, but never gained the popularity of Titien Sumarni (yes, I know that's a redlink, but my mid-1950s film magazines feature one or more stories on her a month) and never became a major star. Important for her article, but maybe only worth a footnote here. Thoughts? — Chris Woodrich (talk) 01:12, 30 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
- Rusty, but passable. I'll have a look. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 01:01, 30 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
- "Soerono, writing in Pertjatoeran Doenia dan Film" This is a bit alien to me. Who is this? What kind of publication is this?
- Done. Added a footnote with more detail, as I doubt he'd be worth an article. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 01:01, 30 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
- "Biran surmised that" Is "surmised" really what you mean here?
- Wrote. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 01:01, 30 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
- Perhaps you could add some appropriate redlinks? Some of the film companies/films you mention but do not link might be worth linking to?
- Did a couple. Not linking any names though, per WP:REDLINK. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 01:01, 30 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I suspect that none of these comments require large changes, but they may help round out the article nicely. Josh Milburn (talk) 17:29, 29 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks for the review. I've commented above. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 01:12, 30 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
- Support; no further comments. Josh Milburn (talk) 12:38, 2 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Support Very nicely done. Just a few comments:
- "as well as at the Nitisemito cigarette factory in Kudus and a batik factory in Pekalongan owned by Tan Jauw Lin" unclear if one or two factories owned by Tan. Can the word "factory" be varied?
- How's this? — Chris Woodrich (talk) 07:46, 1 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- "Further roles" maybe "Additional roles"
- Agree. Done. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 07:46, 1 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- "and praised Soerip's spontaneity in her role.[10] Biran wrote that lower-class audiences praised the film's music" perhaps too much of a praise chorus.--Wehwalt (talk) 07:35, 1 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Done. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 07:46, 1 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support Short but sweet. Just a few nitpicks:
- "the colonial capital of Batavia (now Jakarta)" Maybe you could rephrase this a bit to avoid any confusion for those who don't know what Batavia was. Maybe just a comma instead of "of". Plus I would link Batavia as well.
- Last I checked we didn't have an article on Batavia itself - Apparently, that's changed. Linked now. Not sure eliminating "of" helps, as we'd end up with two commas and two parentheses in short succession. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 23:29, 1 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- "Dhalia and Soerip (themselves) " Maybe "(played by themselves)" would be more clear
- "Ishak (Mochtar Widjaja). Although initially elated, they find that Iskak's" Is it hak or kak?
- Good catch. Fixed. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 23:29, 1 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- "Unable to recoup its expenses, by 1941" that reads a bit odd as all we know is that it is a 1941 film. Did filming, releasing, and folding all happen in a matter of months? And then Suska directs another movie that same year?
- Nixed the 1941s. Pertjatoeran Doenia dan Film doesn't go into much detail as to when this merger/sale of assets occurred, and the year of release of Ratna Moetoe Manikam is not clear. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 23:29, 1 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- should the statement "J. B. Kristanto's Katalog Film Indonesia (Indonesian Film Catalogue) records several as having survived at Sinematek Indonesia's archives" not have a source and could that catalogue be added to the cited works list?
- Done and done. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 23:29, 1 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- I'm not convinced that last bit about Japanese propaganda films is relevant, even when knowing the Japanese occupied the Indies.
- It's meant to be illustrative of the fact that there are several different types of films which are known to be extant, as opposed to Heider's claims otherwise. It is also meant to hint that some films survive in the Netherlands, be it at NGIS or another institution (this is sadly not in any sources I have available to me). Pareh, for instance, was stored in the Netherlands for ages and is now circulating as a pirated DVD in Jakarta. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 23:29, 1 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Works cited: 2 of the 3 instances of Biran, Misbach Yusa are linked. One probably suffices.
- Done. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 23:29, 1 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- That "untitled" looks a bit odd. I think that if you use the title "Cinemas" for reference to the ad in Algemeen Indisch Dagblad de Preangerbode, maybe this one could be "Sun talkies"?
- That works, done. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 23:29, 1 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
As I said, nitpicks. Edwininlondon (talk) 16:22, 1 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Thank you for the review! All done or commented upon. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 23:29, 1 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- A fine piece. Good luck! Edwininlondon (talk) 07:09, 3 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Images are appropriately licensed. Nikkimaria (talk) 19:02, 1 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks Nikki! — Chris Woodrich (talk) 23:29, 1 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Support from me, following my informal PR. Only one further comment from me: I'm not 100% sure, but should 'Indonesian for "Call of Blood"' be "Indonesian for Call of Blood" as it's the title? Cheers – SchroCat (talk) 15:52, 4 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Done, per previous FAs. Must have slipped my mind. Thanks for the review! — Chris Woodrich (talk) 16:06, 4 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Note -- source review? Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 14:53, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Nothing yet. I left a note at WT:FAC a while ago, but nada. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 16:25, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- I'll gladly do the honours. More soonest. Tim riley talk 18:13, 11 January 2016 (UTC) Later: The British Library's copy of the Misbach Biren title has to be be retrieved from storage and will be available on Wednesday. I'll report back here on Wed afternoon GMT if at all possible. Tim riley talk 18:21, 11 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks muchly. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 23:26, 11 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- I'll gladly do the honours. More soonest. Tim riley talk 18:13, 11 January 2016 (UTC) Later: The British Library's copy of the Misbach Biren title has to be be retrieved from storage and will be available on Wednesday. I'll report back here on Wed afternoon GMT if at all possible. Tim riley talk 18:21, 11 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Source review – With the kind assistance of a member of staff at the British Library I checked three citations against the Indonesian text of Biran 2009, but hadn't the cheek to ask for any more of his time, and have taken the other refs to the book as read, given that the sample of three was absolutely fine. I have checked references 1, 2, 3, 10a &b, 11, 12, 19 and 21, all of which are impeccable. Happy to give a thumbs-up for the source review. Also, more generally, happy to Support promotion to FA: the article meets all the criteria in my opinion. Tim riley talk 12:50, 13 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Thank you right kindly. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 12:56, 13 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- I think Tim's review is more in the nature of a spotcheck of sources for accuracy and avoidance of close paraphrasing (which is always welcome, though not required for every FAC) rather than a source review for formatting and reliability, so I had a quick scan myself and the only formatting query I had was that it looks like some of the citations end in full stops and some don't but if that's simply a function of different templates for books vs. websites then so be it. Perhaps double-check for consistency, Chris, but happy to promote now. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 13:42, 16 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Oops! So sorry, and thank you Ian for coming to the rescue. Tim riley talk 13:46, 16 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- No worries, Tim. It's a really minor thing (and fixed). — Chris Woodrich (talk) 14:13, 16 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Oops! So sorry, and thank you Ian for coming to the rescue. Tim riley talk 13:46, 16 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- I think Tim's review is more in the nature of a spotcheck of sources for accuracy and avoidance of close paraphrasing (which is always welcome, though not required for every FAC) rather than a source review for formatting and reliability, so I had a quick scan myself and the only formatting query I had was that it looks like some of the citations end in full stops and some don't but if that's simply a function of different templates for books vs. websites then so be it. Perhaps double-check for consistency, Chris, but happy to promote now. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 13:42, 16 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FAC/ar, and leave the {{featured article candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through. Ian Rose (talk) 13:43, 16 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.