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This is a collection of discussions on the deletion of articles related to China. It is one of many deletion lists coordinated by WikiProject Deletion sorting. Anyone can help maintain the list on this page.

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China

[edit]

Newland Digital Technology

[edit]
Newland Digital Technology (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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The Newland Digital Technology article might warrant deletion if it lacks significant coverage from independent, reliable sources that confirm its notability beyond its own promotional material. If the article predominantly relies on self-published sources or fails to demonstrate notable impact in the broader technology sector, it may not meet Wikipedia's general notability guideline (GNG). RodrigoIPacce (talk) 11:22, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources.
    1. "新大陆(000997)：第三方支付盈利改善 海外战略持续推进" [Newland (000997): Improvement in Third-Party Payment Profits as Overseas Strategy Continues to Advance] (in Chinese). Huaan Securities [zh]. 2024-09-25. Archived from the original on 2024-10-02. Retrieved 2024-10-02 – via Futu.

      The analyst report notes: "公司主营业务分为智能终端集群和行业数字化集群两个板块。智能终端集群包括POS 机生产销售业务。2023 年，根据尼尔森报告，新大陆支付全球出货量排名全球第一。行业数字化集群，包括商户运营及增值服务业务。公司2023 年支付服务业务交易总量超2.5 万亿元，行业领先。"

      From Google Translate: "The company's main business is divided into two sectors: intelligent terminal clusters and industry digital clusters. The intelligent terminal cluster includes POS machine production and sales business. In 2023, according to the Nielsen report, New World Payments ranked first in the world in terms of global shipments. Industry digital clusters include merchant operations and value-added service businesses. The company's payment service business transaction volume in 2023 will exceed 2.5 trillion yuan, leading the industry."

    2. "新大陆(000997)：国内外开启双丰收 期待后续业绩持续高增" [Newland (000997): Achieving Dual Harvests Domestically and Internationally, Anticipating Continued High Growth in Future Performance] (in Chinese). Everbright Securities. 2023-08-28. Archived from the original on 2024-10-02. Retrieved 2024-10-02 – via Futu.

      The analyst report notes: "公司积极布局感知AI、认知AI、人脸识别算法等多领域：在感知AI 维度，公司为中国铁塔等运营商推出边缘智能网关产品和专用AI 模组，同时布局边缘网关芯片与设备的国产化覆盖，构建可信边缘计算生态。"

      From Google Translate: "The company is actively developing perceptual AI, cognitive AI, face recognition algorithms and other fields: in the perceptual AI dimension, the company has launched edge intelligent gateway products and dedicated AI modules for operators such as China Tower, while also deploying domestically produced edge gateway chips and equipment. coverage and build a trusted edge computing ecosystem."

    3. "新大陆(000997)：收单与硬件双重赋能 利润端快速增长" [Newland (000997): Dual Empowerment from Acquiring and Hardware Drives Rapid Profit Growth] (in Chinese). Haitong Securities. 2023-01-23. Archived from the original on 2024-10-02. Retrieved 2024-10-02 – via Futu.

      The analyst report notes: "各大POS 厂商的排名发生较大变动，其中，新大陆以8.3%的市场份额跃居全球第一，出货量同比增长接近10%。随着全球化战略的不断推进，为更好地满足当地市场需求，公司持续加大全球化投入，先后在中国香港、巴西、新加坡等地设立分公司，并在全球范围内建立了若干个业务发展服务中心，不断提升本地化的服务能力。拥有国内外4家工业4.0 智能化生产基地，凭借高研发投入，强供应链交付，全场景建设的核心竞争力，已为全球客户提供立体化全过程服务，将支付网络延伸至世界各地。"

      From Google Translate: "The rankings of major POS manufacturers have undergone major changes. Among them, New World ranked first in the world with a market share of 8.3%, and its shipments increased by nearly 10% year-on-year. With the continuous advancement of the globalisation strategy, in order to better meet the needs of the local market, the company continues to increase investment in globalisation, has successively established branches in Hong Kong, Brazil, Singapore and other places, and has established several businesses around the world. Develop service centers and continuously improve localised service capabilities. It has 4 Industry 4.0 intelligent production bases at home and abroad. With its core competitiveness of high R&D investment, strong supply chain delivery, and full-scenario construction, it has provided three-dimensional full-process services to global customers and extended its payment network to all parts of the world."

    4. Tang, Wei 唐维 (2022-09-14). "新大陆：工业时代向数字时代演变 一切皆有可能" [Newland: The Transition from the Industrial Era to the Digital Era—Anything is Possible.]. Securities Times (in Chinese). Archived from the original on 2024-10-02. Retrieved 2024-10-02.

      The detailed profile notes: "同样作为最早参与到数字人民币早期技术研究和场景应用研究的企业，近几年伴随数字人民币试点的不断推进，新大陆数字人民币业务实现深化布局，公司助力央行数研所、2.0层银行机构，携手华为等产业合作方开展了系列前瞻性的技术研究、标准制定和产学研用生态建设，取得了丰富的技术积累和经验，截至目前公司共取得数字人民币专利及产品著作权近十项。"

      From Google Translate: "As one of the first companies to participate in early technology research and scenario application research on digital renminbi, with the continuous advancement of digital renminbi pilots in recent years, the digital renminbi business in the Newland has deepened its layout. The company has assisted the Central Bank Digital Research Institute and 2.0-layer banking institutions to join hands with Huawei and other industrial partners have carried out a series of forward-looking technical research, standard formulation and industry-university-research ecological construction, and gained rich technical accumulation and experience. So far, the company has obtained nearly ten digital RMB patents and product copyrights."

    5. Lin, Kan 林侃 (2020-10-15). "闽企发布新一代二维码安全解码芯片" [Fujian Enterprise Releases Next-Generation QR Code Security Decoding Chip]. Fujian Daily [zh] (in Chinese). Archived from the original on 2024-10-02. Retrieved 2024-10-02.

      The article notes: "新大陆是亚太第一、全球第二的支付终端供应商，同时也是信息感知识别设备销量全球前五的唯一一家中国企业，是全球掌握二维码核心技术的企业之一，拥有全球首颗二维码安全解码芯片、全球首颗数字公民安全解码芯片。以解码芯片为支点，新大陆在识读模组、支付设备、识读设备等领域自主研发出系列产品。"

      From Google Translate: "Newland is the number one payment terminal supplier in the Asia-Pacific and the number two in the world. It is also the only Chinese company in the top five in the world in terms of sales of information sensing and identification equipment. It is one of the companies in the world that masters the core technology of QR codes and owns the world's first QR code. Code security decoding chip, the world's first digital citizen security decoding chip. With decoding chips as the fulcrum, Newland has independently developed a series of products in the fields of reading modules, payment equipment, and reading equipment."

    6. Chen, Meiling (2017-08-30). "Fujian pilot free trade zone-based companies look to go global". China Daily. Archived from the original on 2024-10-02. Retrieved 2024-10-02.

      The article notes: "The worlds' third-largest point-of-sale terminal supplier, Fujian Newland Payment Technology, announced in August it will enter the Brazilian market. ... The company is a major subsidiary of Fujian-based, publicly listed giant Newland Science and Technology Group, an expert on internet of things and wireless telecommunication technologies. The company's sales of POS terminals surpassed 5.8 million units in 2016, up 6 percent year-on-year, according to a report released by United States market research company Nilson last month. Fujian Newland Payment Technology ranked No 3 on the global list by POS terminal shipments, after France-based Ingenico and US-based Verifone, the report said."

    There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow Newland Digital Technology (simplified Chinese: 新大陆数字技术股份有限公司; traditional Chinese: 新大陸數位技術股份有限公司) to pass Wikipedia:Notability (organizations and companies)#Primary criteria, which requires "significant coverage in multiple reliable secondary sources that are independent of the subject".

    Cunard (talk) 11:41, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per WP:NEXISTS based on multiple in-depth sources identified by @Cunard. In particular the analyst reports from Hua'an, Haitong, and Everbright Securities are SIRS (company is publicly listed, refer to WP:LISTED). The Fujian Daily and China Daily articles are not substantial but attest to real-world notability, as do articles like this from Reuters.

Gao Village

[edit]
Gao Village (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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WP:BEFORE shows that this is barely mentioned in reliable sources which is not enough to pass WP:SIGCOV. There may be other elements of the novel that could be notable but this is a very minor element. Jontesta (talk) 02:21, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sheng Peng

[edit]
Sheng Peng (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Playing 391 minutes in the Chinese first league, 90 minutes in the second league and some matches in the third league is a weak claim to notability. The sources are not enough to rectify that, and as such he fails WP:GNG and WP:SPORTCRIT. Geschichte (talk) 13:38, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Jin Dachuan

[edit]
Jin Dachuan (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Not notable. — Moriwen (talk) 15:42, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Duanju

[edit]
Duanju (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Non-notable topic - the MIT source does not mention the article title, and the Chinese source seems to be a primary source and/or blog. LR.127 (talk) 23:15, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Peoples Daily Overseas Ed., AV Market Ushering in a Short Drama Boom 视听市场迎来“短剧热 [1] explaining the phenomenon in many paragraphs
  • Guangming Daily News, A Taste of "Cool" and "Sweet" - Don't let these short dramas dominate your life 一味“爽”与“甜” 　别让微短剧离生活越来越远 [2] a Zhejiang Normal University professor commenting on these videos
If there are any concerns about these sources, feel free to say so and I will continue my search.
I don't think the Guangzhou Daily News source linked in the article[3] is a blog entry, since it has a byline and doesn't have a disclaimer about user-generated content. I can't see any way it would be primary. Did I miss something?
Not specifically directed at this editor, but I have noticed a lot of nominations for poorly sourced China-related articles which have substantial native language coverage. To be sure, the problem starts with editors who create poorly sourced articles on China-related topics. But these nominations put a burden on a small number of en.wikipedia editors who follow this board and can handle Chinese language sources. The burden (per WP:BEFORE) is to do a reasonable search, and I believe a search that doesn't fully embrace native language articles is unlikely to be a reasonable one. Oblivy (talk) 00:18, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Liang Yongfeng

[edit]
Liang Yongfeng (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Failure of WP:GNG and WP:SPORTCRIT. Played 15 games in Hong Kong and nothing else. Sources are WP:ROUTINE at best. Geschichte (talk) 06:35, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Jades broken

[edit]
Jades broken (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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The article doesn't meet the requirements of WP:N. Frost 05:20, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

He Qianqian

[edit]
He Qianqian (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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It does not meet the notability guideline for musicians. Frost 05:23, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Pu Zhongjie

[edit]
Pu Zhongjie (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Declined prod. Prod was removed with a source that is a 1 line mention of Pu. Created by a single purpose editor. Google news has a mere 2 hits. Would reconsider if significant coverage can be found in Chinese. LibStar (talk) 02:54, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources. The subject passes Wikipedia:Notability (people)#Basic criteria, which says:

    People are presumed notable if they have received significant coverage in multiple published secondary sources that are reliable, intellectually independent of each other, and independent of the subject.

    • If the depth of coverage in any given source is not substantial, then multiple independent sources may be combined to demonstrate notability; trivial coverage of a subject by secondary sources is not usually sufficient to establish notability.

    Sources

    1. "Pu Zhongjie". China Daily. 2012-02-28. Archived from the original on 2024-10-01. Retrieved 2024-10-01.

      The article notes: "Pu Zhongjie, born in 1963, is a doctoral degree holder and has obtained the permanent residence permit of the United States. Dr. Pu founded Lepu Group Co Ltd in 1998 and serves as the chairman of the Board and General Manager. ... Dr. Pu is the director of the Chinese Society of Biotechnology (CSBT), vice president of the Interventional Engineering Committee of CSBT and the member of the Changping CPPCC committee."

    2. Li, Yihe 李奕和 (2022-10-31). "乐普系分拆心泰医疗IPO，蒲忠杰难以摆脱"自家生意"，依赖关联交易，增收不增利，上半年纯利下降42%" [The spin-off of Lepu's subsidiary, Xintai Medical, for its IPO sees Pu Zhongjie struggling to break free from "family business" ties, relying on related transactions. While revenue has increased, profits have not, with a 42% decline in net profit in the first half of the year.]. 乐居财经 [Leju Caijing] (in Chinese). Archived from the original on 2024-10-01. Retrieved 2024-10-01 – via Sina Corporation.

      The article notes: "从校服到婚纱，蒲忠杰和妻子张月娥不仅是生意场上最得意的合作伙伴，二者还是同窗校友。蒲忠杰毕业于西安交通大学金属材料专业，在校期间结识了同专业的张月娥，此后结成连理。1999年6月，已获博士学位的蒲忠杰在国外求学期间接触了心脏支架研发的工作后，毅然回国，与妻子张月娥创立了乐普医疗。2009年，乐普医疗作为首批28家公司之一，登陆创业板，一举成为A股“心血管第一股”。"

      From Google Translate: "From school uniforms to wedding dresses, Pu Zhongjie and his wife Zhang Yue'e are not only the most proud partners in the business world, but also classmates. Pu Zhongjie graduated from Xi'an Jiaotong University with a degree in metal materials. During his time at school, he met Zhang Yue'e, who was also a student in the same major, and they later got married. In June 1999, after Pu Zhongjie, who had obtained a doctorate degree, came into contact with the research and development of heart stents while studying abroad, he resolutely returned to China and founded Lepu Medical with his wife Zhang Yue'e. In 2009, Lepu Medical was listed on the Growth Enterprise Market as one of the first 28 companies, becoming the "first cardiovascular stock" in the A-share market."

    3. "创业板被指为"造富机器" 年产亿万富豪500位" [The ChiNext board is labeled a "wealth creation machine," producing 500 billionaires annually.]. The Beijing News (in Chinese). 2010-10-26. Archived from the original on 2024-10-01. Retrieved 2024-10-01 – via China News Service.

      The article notes: "蒲忠杰 1963年出生。乐普医疗总经理。持股市值：66.40亿元。历任北京钢铁研究总院高级工程师，美国佛罗里达国际大学研究助理，美国WP医疗科技公司技术副总经理。他曾参与设计50余项专利，并发表15篇科研文章。1998年，蒲忠杰创办乐蒲集团。与其他创业板富豪榜相比，蒲忠杰是唯一的非实际控制人富豪，纯属“技术投资”。"

      From Google Translate: "Pu Zhongjie was born in 1963. He is the general manager of Lepu Medical. Shareholding value: 6.64 billion yuan. He served as a senior engineer at the Beijing Iron and Steel Research Institute, a research assistant at Florida International University, and the technical deputy general manager of WP Medical Technology Company in the United States. He has participated in the design of more than 50 patents and published 15 scientific research articles. In 1998, Pu Zhongjie founded Lepu Group. Compared with other GEM rich lists, Pu Zhongjie is the only rich man who is not the actual controller, and is purely a "technical investment"."

    There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow Pu Zhongjie (Chinese: 蒲忠杰) to pass Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject".

    Cunard (talk) 11:07, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

GEMO (Skin Care Device)

[edit]
GEMO (Skin Care Device) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:NCORP. The company website, press releases, and industry award web pages are not sources from which the notability of a product can be determined. —Alalch E. 15:07, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep - It has considerable popularity in this niche market in China. [17] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Iuliusnanus (talk • contribs) 20:53, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Promotional content. As a paid editor, you should be especially discerning of promotional and unusable sources. I presume that you are paid to write articles that will be kept, not deleted. If you cannot distinguish between usable and unusable sources, the articles you create will be deleted, and your clients will not be satisfied. —Alalch E. 21:44, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete based on the following source assessment:
  1. Official website.
  2. Extremely promotional news article.
  3. Press release.
  4. Some sort of design description written by this product's makers.
  5. Extremely short description similar to above.
  6. Another non-independent description of the product.
None of these meet the requirements of the GNG. The link added by Iuliusnanus above is sigcov (independence unclear), but one source alone is not enough to demonstrate notability. Toadspike [Talk] 18:37, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Shijiazhuang Donghua Jinlong

[edit]
Shijiazhuang Donghua Jinlong (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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lacks significant coverage from reliable sources, failing to meet Wikipedia's notability standards. Loewstisch (talk) 13:17, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗plicit 13:32, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Stewart Tan Seng Teong

[edit]
AfDs for this article:
Stewart Tan Seng Teong (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Previous AfD outcome was redirect. I could find no sources for full name or just first and last names. Does not meet WP:BIO. LibStar (talk) 10:40, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, The Herald (Benison) (talk) 16:08, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Cai Haojian

[edit]
Cai Haojian (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:GNG and WP:SPORTCRIT. Played a couple of minutes in the Chinese Super League, as well as a loan in the third league. Sources are WP:ROUTINE and I don't see anything else that can help it pass. Geschichte (talk) 07:22, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 10:35, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

2024 state visit by Kais Saied to China

[edit]
2024 state visit by Kais Saied to China (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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There is no indication of notability for this visit. The sources are almost entirely government press releases and should be more WP:DIVERSE for independent notability. The page should be deleted and perhaps parts merged into the main Kais Saied article. Amigao (talk) 13:50, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • KEEP - Kais Saied is the President of Tunisia. This is an official State visit and as such, notability is an extremely big deal. I linked an independent English language source (2024 China-United States Exchange Foundation) under External links. I also linked a Brookings Institution commentary under External Links. They're building valuable contacts in a world that seems to be exploding, "Although there is no visible alienation between Tunisia and the European Union, the gradual distancing between Tunisia and the United States has become increasingly apparent." — Maile (talk) 00:47, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak keep, with no prejudice against a merge to the very empty China–Tunisia relations. The coverage and arguments provided by Maile to me, indicate that this event is likely to be notable (but not guaranteed) under WP:GEOSCOPE. I can see a benefit for having a summary of the event merged into the China-Tunisia relations article, (lack of analysis by secondary sources leaves this article as mostly a summary of what each government said about the event) but I view that more as an editorial decision than an AFD one. GreenLipstickLesbian (talk) 21:26, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Merging this into the almost empty China–Tunisia relations makes sense. - Amigao (talk) 00:26, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The more I'm thinking about it, the more it makes sense. The two countries have diplomatic relations, but they seem very minimal. Documenting the visit in that article would help provide a clearer picture to the readers - especially because my keep vote is based more on the fact that I think secondary sources analysing this event are more likely going to exist in the near future than not. GreenLipstickLesbian (talk) 19:00, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • KEEP Kais Saied is the president of Tunisia, and the president's visit to China in 2024 has brought diplomatic relations to the level of a "strategic partnership", meaning that future communication between the two sides will no longer be limited to the central government, but can be decentralized to the level of provincial and municipal cooperation, with direct cooperation in trade and military affairs as well. The same applies to direct cooperation in trade and military matters. China–Tunisia relations for sure, I think it could be worth significantly upgrading the content, and I will add it soon. TinaLees-Jones (talk) 14:56, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge to China–Tunisia relations. This is a news article and lacks proper coverage, absolutely no reason for it to have its own article independently of the main subject. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 07:44, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: keep or merge?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, asilvering (talk) 14:24, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]



[edit]

Jades broken

[edit]
Jades broken (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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The article doesn't meet the requirements of WP:N. Frost 05:20, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Peter J. Levesque

[edit]
Peter J. Levesque (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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No indication of significance. References are PR, profiles, appointment news and non-salient coverage. Fails WP:SIGCOV, WP:BIO. UPE. scope_creepTalk 22:01, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources. The subject passes Wikipedia:Notability (people)#Basic criteria, which says:

    People are presumed notable if they have received significant coverage in multiple published secondary sources that are reliable, intellectually independent of each other, and independent of the subject.

    • If the depth of coverage in any given source is not substantial, then multiple independent sources may be combined to demonstrate notability; trivial coverage of a subject by secondary sources is not usually sufficient to establish notability.

    Sources

    1. "Transportation 2023: Peter Levesque". Virginia Business. 2023-08-30. Archived from the original on 2024-10-01. Retrieved 2024-10-01.

      The article notes: "Levesque was previously president of Ports America and spent 25 years based in Hong Kong. He has held executive positions at international transportation, logistics and supply chain companies such as Modern Terminals, CEVA Logistics and DHL. ... A graduate of the University of Massachusetts Dartmouth, Northwestern University and the Hong Kong University of Science and Technology, Levesque authored “The Shipping Point: The Rise of China and the Future of Retail Supply Chain Management” in 2011, and the 2022 thriller “Two if By Sea,”"

    2. Kwang, Mary (2002-05-15). "What Singapore has done, HK can do too". The Straits Times.

      The article notes: "Singapore has done a remarkable job of marketing itself as the logistics hub of Asia, and where Singapore has succeeded, Hongkong could succeed too, according to a logistics industry consultant. Mr Peter Levesque, who runs his own consultancy firm and who used to work for container transportation company, American President Lines, said that the Republic 'has its running shoes on and for quite some time in an attempt to outrun Hongkong'. ... He lauded Singapore for its focused marketing efforts, open-skies policy, world-class port, logistics education and positioning as a hub for high-value, fast-moving goods. He described the tie-up between the National University of Singapore and the Georgia Institute of Technology, renowned for logistics studies, to offer courses in the field as a strategic fit."

    3. Labrut, Michele (2019-11-26). "Ports America appoints Peter Levesque as president". Seatrade Maritime News. Archived from the original on 2024-10-01. Retrieved 2024-10-01.

      The article notes: "Levesque will join Ports America in February 2020 and will report to Mark Montgomery, who will continue in the role of chief executive officer. Levesque joins Ports America from Modern Terminals Limited (MTL) in Hong Kong, where he most recently held the post of group managing director and ceo. He brings more than 30 years of maritime industry experience. During his nine-year tenure with Modern Terminals, Levesque led the company through a successful Public-Private-Partnership in Hong Kong."

    4. "Levesque leaves Hong Kong for Jersey". The Journal of Commerce. Vol. 20, no. 25. 2019-12-09. p. 8. EBSCOhost 140436136.

      The article notes: "Ports America has chosen 30-year shipping industry veteran Peter Levesque as its new president, returning Levesque to the United States from Hong Kong, where he was CEO of Modern Terminals Ltd. Levesque, who has led Modern Terminals since 2016 and spent nine years at the company, will join Ports America in February. "

    5. Knowler, Greg (2016-08-02). "Levesque to succeed Kelly as head of Modern Terminals". The Journal of Commerce. EBSCOhost 117205752.

      The article notes: "Modern Terminals' Chief Operating Officer Peter Levesque will succeed Sean Kelly as managing director of the Hong Kong-based terminal operator from Jan. 1, 2017. ... Levesque is a veteran of the transport and logistics industry. He has been with Modern Terminals since February 2010, and has served as chief commercial officer and chief operating officer. Prior to Modern Terminals, he held executive positions at DHL, CEVA Logistics, and American President Lines."

    There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow Peter Levesque to pass Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject".

    Cunard (talk) 10:06, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment Lets examine these references as Cunard hasn't a particularly good success rate at finding sources for these types of articles:
  • Ref 1 [21] This is profile with no byline. Its non-rs. Its is likely written by Levesque himself.
  • Ref 2 This is 317 word article. It is NOT in-depth secondary coverage.
  • Ref 3 [22] This routine annoucement of employment comes from a press-release and is not considered a WP:SECONDARY source for WP:BLP. It is non-rs in fact.
  • Ref 4 This is the same press-release. Another routine annoucement of employement. It is non-rs.
  • Ref 5 This is the same press-release. Another routine annoucement of employement. It is non-rs.
None of these constitute WP:SECONDARY sources. I'm a bit peeved that press-releases have been presented as secondary sourcing when long established consensus has proven they are not. So far no WP:THREE secondary sources have been supplied to prove this person is notable. scope_creepTalk 10:29, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • The first source was not written by Levesque himself. It was written by the publication. Here is the methodology from the Virginia Business editor:

    For those who aren’t familiar with the Virginia 500, we like to say that it’s like the Fortune 500 but instead of companies, it’s about people — specifically, the most powerful Virginia executives and officials in business, nonprofits, higher education, government and politics. The list is based on our staff research, not nominations, and we do not rank executives.

    ...

    Another important point: The Virginia 500 is journalism, not public relations or advertising. Our editors choose which organizations and leaders make the list and what we say about them. The Virginia 500 is not an award or an endorsement; it’s simply a recognition that a person holds a position of power and influence. Though most executives appreciate being named to the Virginia 500, a small number sometimes wish not to be included. There isn’t an opt-out process, however.

    The second source reports on the subject's speech. The other sources provide biographical background about him in the context of the business roles he assumes. The coverage in all the sources is sufficient for him to meet Wikipedia:Notability (people)#Basic criteria. Cunard (talk) 10:39, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • The virginia busines reads looks and reads like a profile with fundamental information that couldn't be know without contacting him or using other press-release type information to build that profile. That combined with paid-for images makes it look like PR. Its the classic who's who or bloomberg type of profile. The 2nd isn't in-depth and the press-releases by long consensus are non-rs. You can't bypass it and tack and assume its good. Its not. scope_creepTalk 10:58, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • "fundamental information that couldn't be know without contacting him or using other press-release type information" could be said without evidence about most news articles in reliable sources that profile living people. Backed by the statement from the publication's editor, I see no evidence that this source is not independent. The second source is a 299-word article which is significant coverage. The other sources are not press releases; they are news articles from publications that report on the shipping industry. Cunard (talk) 11:11, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
They are from press-releases. Nobody reports on a routine annoucement of a job unless it comes from a press-release. You just don't want to do the work to find the press-release. Here is the press-release statement
"“I am thrilled to have Peter be part of our leadership team of the Ports America platform. Ports America remains focused on providing best-in-class service to many of the world’s leading shipping lines as well as the work we have completed in improving workflow solutions to beneficial cargo owners to drive dramatic growth for the company,” said Ports America ceo Mark Montgomery".
That is not independent and non-rs.
The subject listing is similar to the X of Y articles that lists basic information and are no more that constructs used to provide awareness in job hunting and lately to build a fake notability, similar to bloomberg and who's who. It is no more than a profile, is not in-depth nor independent. The man is not notable. It worries me you break established consensus around reliabilty/independence just to prove a point. I'm kind of worried that you don't know that press-releases are non-rs. I hope your not handing out that advice for editors looking for sources. scope_creepTalk 12:25, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That quote is from Labrut 2019 in which the author quotes Dave Starling, the chairman of the company board. The rest of the article provides biographical coverage about Peter J. Levesque in the journalist's own words. There is enough independent, non-interview coverage in all the sources for Peter J. Levesque to meet Wikipedia:Notability (people)#Basic criteria, which says, "multiple independent sources may be combined to demonstrate notability". Cunard (talk) 08:02, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It a press-release. That is why those three references all magically report the subject has a got a new job. scope_creepTalk 08:04, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Regarding Knowler 2016, Labrut 2019, and Journal 2019: One of the sources was published in 2016. Two of the sources were published in 2019. While the sources are prompted by company's announcements, there is enough independent reporting and non-press-release coverage in the sources to contribute to notability under Wikipedia:Notability (people)#Basic criteria alongside the other two sources. Cunard (talk) 08:17, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Jason Gunawan

[edit]
AfDs for this article:
Jason Gunawan (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails NBAD. Stvbastian (talk) 06:16, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Addition: I have read the 1st nomination, but no one cares about this article. Better this article move to draft.Stvbastian (talk) 06:30, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources. The subject passes Wikipedia:Notability (people)#Basic criteria, which says:

    People are presumed notable if they have received significant coverage in multiple published secondary sources that are reliable, intellectually independent of each other, and independent of the subject.

    • If the depth of coverage in any given source is not substantial, then multiple independent sources may be combined to demonstrate notability; trivial coverage of a subject by secondary sources is not usually sufficient to establish notability.

    Sources

    1. Ho, Kelly (2020-01-06). "Diocesan Boys' School student and badminton star Jason Gunawan follows in his father's footsteps". South China Morning Post. Archived from the original on 2024-08-26. Retrieved 2024-08-26.

      The article notes: "At some point, every athlete dreams of making it to the Olympics, but local badminton prodigy Jason Gunawan has had his heart set on competing at the sporting event since he was four years old. Jason, who celebrated his second consecutive win in the boys’ singles event at the All Hong Kong Schools Jing Ying Tournament last Monday, says he has been dreaming of Olympic glory ever since he watched Chinese player Lin Dan take gold at the 2008 Beijing Olympics. ... A love of badminton runs in Jason’s family. His father, a Chinese Indonesian, used to play for the Jakarta province team. As a child, Jason would head to the local sports centre with his father every Sunday to practise, eventually earning a spot on the Hong Kong junior team. He now trains 30 hours a week at the Hong Kong Sports Institute, but still finds time to practise with his dad, his biggest supporter."

    2. Cheung, Ka-Wa 徐嘉華 (2024-05-25). "羽毛球｜ 由外圍賽打至8強止步 吳英倫下月生日願望：今年闖入世界排名頭30" [Badminton｜ From qualifying to the top 8, Jason Gunawan's birthday wish next month: to break into the top 30 in the world this year]. Sing Tao Daily (in Chinese). Archived from the original on 2024-08-26. Retrieved 2024-08-26.

      The article notes: "父母是印尼華僑的Jason，曾於2020年以最年輕球手（當時16歲）奪全港錦標賽男單冠軍，可惜一場疫情斷送足足3年的青少年比賽，直到2022年5月才開始由低（國際挑戰賽級別）打起，... Jason今年初繼續參加「國際挑戰賽」，亦遇到一些「超級300」的比賽，世界排名由年初105位到本月泰國公開賽（超級500）時是96位，他在該賽的16強，遇上世界排名第5的日本球星奈良岡功大，雙方拉鋸3局，港將只在決勝局輸「刁時」（21:11、 15:21、20:22)，世界排名升至本周的83位。"

      From Google Translate: "Jason, whose parents are Indonesian overseas Chinese, won the men's singles championship in the Hong Kong Championships in 2020 as the youngest golfer (16 years old at the time). Unfortunately, a pandemic ruined the youth competition for three full years, and it was not until May 2022 that it started. Starting from a low (International Challenge level),... Jason continued to participate in the "International Challenge" at the beginning of this year, and also encountered some "Super 300" competitions. His world ranking increased from 105th at the beginning of the year to this month's Thailand Open (Super 500). ) was ranked 96th at the time. In the top 16 of the tournament, he met Japanese star Kodai Naraoka, who was ranked fifth in the world. The two sides went back and forth for 3 games. The Hong Kong player only lost to "Diao Shi" in the decisive game (21:11, 15 :21, 20:22), the world ranking rose to 83rd this week."

    3. Chan, Kin-wa (2020-11-15). "Jason Gunawan crowned youngest-ever Hong Kong men's badminton champion at 16". South China Morning Post. Archived from the original on 2024-08-26. Retrieved 2024-08-26.

      The article notes: "Jason Gunawan became the youngest-ever men’s singles champion at the annual Hong Kong badminton championships at Kowloon Park Sports Centre on Sunday, thanks partly to his decision to turn to full-time training amid the pandemic. Just three months after cutting short his secondary school studies to pursue a full-time sporting career at the Sports Institute, the 16-year-old teenager reigned supreme in the three-game final against Chan Yin-chak, winning 21-19, 17-21, 21-13 to put himself in the record books."

    4. Chan, Kin-wa (2020-12-01). "Young gun Jason Gunawan sets sights on winning Olympic gold for Hong Kong". South China Morning Post. Archived from the original on 2024-08-26. Retrieved 2024-08-26.

      The article notes: "Outside of Hong Kong there is badminton legend Tony Gunawan, the 2000 Sydney Olympic men’s doubles champion of Indonesia. Here in Hong Kong there is 16-year-old Jason Gunawan, a fast-rising talent now setting his sights on becoming another Olympic gold-medal winner like his namesake. ... Gunawan will not be present in Tokyo either as he is still competing in junior events, but the 2024 Paris Games will be his first attempt at making the step up to Olympic level, with the Los Angeles Games four years later his major target for a medal. ... Born in Hong Kong with an Indonesian-Chinese father, Gunawan was destined to make a name in badminton before he was even born, he said."

    5. Ng, Chia Yin (2024-05-24). "Jason: I thank coach Wong for helping me grow". The Star. Archived from the original on 2024-08-26. Retrieved 2024-08-26.

      The article notes: "Hong Kong’s rising star Jason Gunawan appreciated coach Wong Choong Hann’s role in the growth of his career after checking into the men’s singles quarter-finals in the Malaysian Masters. ... Jason, who will be turning 20 next month, is expecting a tougher job against world No. 19 Lu Guangzu of China next but looking forward to gaining invaluable experience."

    6. Chiu, Tsz-chun 趙子晉 (2023-09-14). "羽毛球．香港賽｜李卓耀不敵基斯迪衛冕失敗　吳英倫力追世界距離" [Badminton: Hong Kong Open｜ Lee Cheuk Yiu Fails to Defend Title Against Kistkidis, Jason Gunawan Closes the Gap to World Rankings] (in Chinese). HK01. Archived from the original on 2024-08-26. Retrieved 2024-08-26.

      The article notes: "吳英倫決勝局初段把握對方情緒不穩，多次放高波予甘克起板，Jason曾經領先5：2，甘克一度滑倒倒地。惟Jason體力有所下降，... 年僅19歲的吳英倫，以往主力出戰青年賽為主，就算越級挑戰成年組也是大多是國際挑戰賽級別，主場的香港賽是他生涯首個BWF 500分的賽事。"

      From Google Translate: "Jason Gunawan took advantage of his opponent's emotional instability in the early stage of the decisive game and sent high waves to Gan Ke several times. Jason once led 5:2, but Gan Ke once slipped and fell to the ground. But Jason's physical strength has declined... Jason Gunawan, who is only 19 years old, has mainly competed in youth competitions in the past. Even if he jumps to the adult group, most of them are international challenge competitions. The Hong Kong competition at home is his first BWF 500 in his career. points competition."

    There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow Jason Gunawan (traditional Chinese: 吳英倫; simplified Chinese: 吴英伦) to pass Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject".

    Cunard (talk) 09:10, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting to solicit more opinions.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 05:19, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep or Speedy keep per WP:CSK#1b. There is no new deletion rationale presented in this nomination compared to the previous one which was closed as keep. The sources cited by Cunard are literally identical to those listed in the previous nomination, and multiple Wikipedians have already reviewed and affirmed that these sources are sufficient to meet GNG. Deletion is not cleanup. I do not see a point to delete/drafity an article when numerous usable sources are already presented. —Prince of Erebor（The Book of Mazarbul） 14:49, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: If the article should be keep, the statements and the sources should be move to Jason Gunawan wikipedia article. It is very uncomfortable to see the article with that statement: "Jason Gunawan is a Hong Kong badminton player." In other words, if i just look at the statement, there is nothing special about the subject. But, i still in my opinion to draft this article. Because it is too soon for a badminton player that did not meet NBAD. Stvbastian (talk) 15:39, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I appreciate. Thank you Stvbastian (talk) 20:50, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per WP:GNG, he has received significant coverage in multiple independent sources which is enough for WP:NBASIC.
On my reading of WP:NBAD, since this article was nominated he now meets that as well. He reached the semi-finals at the BWF HK Open, but I couldn't find coverage. But this[23] documents that plus his semi-final appearance at the BWF Macau Open. Oblivy (talk) 15:10, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

List of entertainment events at AsiaWorld–Expo

[edit]
AfDs for this article:
List of entertainment events at AsiaWorld–Expo (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Fails WP:NLIST overall, as the content of the list is not notable as a group. Seems to fail WP:NOTDB. mikeblas (talk) 14:37, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting, already at AFD so not eligible for Soft Deletion,
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 07:28, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 10:37, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources.

    The subject passes Wikipedia:Notability#Stand-alone lists, which says, "One accepted reason why a list topic is considered notable is if it has been discussed as a group or set by independent reliable sources, per the above guidelines; notable list topics are appropriate for a stand-alone list." I will show below that "entertainment events at AsiaWorld–Expo" has been treated as "a group or set by independent reliable sources".

    Sources

    1. Lau, Kei-tung 劉紀彤 (2024-07-15). "亞洲博覽館亞博7-8月暑假演唱會一覽！歐美日韓殿堂級巨星開騷" [Overview of the AsiaWorld–Expo's Summer Concerts in July and August: A Showcase of Legendary Stars from Europe, America, Japan, and Korea!]. U Lifestyle [zh] (in Chinese). Hong Kong Economic Times Holdings. Archived from the original on 2024-10-02. Retrieved 2024-10-02.

      The article notes: "踏入7月，又到暑假！今個暑假香港亞洲國際博覽館（亞博）將會有超過30場演唱會開騷，平均每兩日就有一場表演或見面會，匯聚歐美、日、韓、港等地歌手及不少殿堂級巨星，當中包括Rain 鄭智薰、邊佑錫、Ian 陳卓賢、Avantgardey、Anson Kong 江𤒹生、軟硬天師（葛民輝、林海峰）、aespa、ITZY、金秀賢、宇多田光、NCT道英、(G)I-DLE、Conon Gray、Jer 柳應廷、MC 張天賦！以下整合亞博將於7月、8月舉行的演唱會，有興趣的話可以睇睇啦！"

      From Google Translate: "As July arrives, summer vacation is here! This summer, the Hong Kong AsiaWorld-Expo (AWE) will host over 30 concerts, with an average of one performance or meet-and-greet every two days. The lineup features artists from Europe, America, Japan, Korea, and Hong Kong, including stars like Rain (Jung Ji-hoon), Byun Yuhak, Ian Chan, Avantgardey, Anson Kong, the duo Soft and Hard (Koo Man-fai and Lam Hoi-fung), aespa, ITZY, Kim Soo-hyun, Utada Hikaru, NCT's Doyoung, (G)I-DLE, Conan Gray, Jer Lau, and MC Cheung Tien-fu! Below is a summary of the concerts taking place in July and August at AWE. If you're interested, be sure to check it out!"

    2. "亞博館逾120場騷料吸百萬樂迷 暑假檔期爆滿 實現「演唱會經濟」" [The AsiaWorld–Expo hosted over 120 events, attracting millions of music fans. The summer schedule was fully booked, achieving a "concert economy".]. Sing Tao Daily (in Chinese). 2024-07-12. Archived from the original on 2024-10-02. Retrieved 2024-10-02.

      The article notes: "7至8月間，將近每個星期均有韓流演唱會或明星見面會於亞博館舉行，包括跳唱代表韓國男團EXO隊長SUHO、NCT主唱道英、影視代表「善宰男神」邊佑錫及淚之女「婿」金秀賢，還有多隊人氣女團VIVIZ、IVE、aespa、ITZY及（G）I-DLE等。"

      From Google Translate: "From July to August, there are K-pop concerts or celebrity meetings held at the AsiaWorld-Expo almost every week, including the representative Korean boy group EXO in dancing and singing, Doyoung, the lead singer of NCT, and the film and television representative "Sun Jae" Byun Woo-seok and his son-in-law Kim Soo-hyun, as well as many popular girl groups including VIVIZ, IVE, aespa, ITZY and (G)I-DLE."

    3. Nip, Amy (2011-07-06). "AsiaWorld-Expo ramps up concert, show dates". South China Morning Post. ProQuest 875105430. Archived from the original on 2024-10-02. Retrieved 2024-10-02.

      The article notes: "Twenty-two international artists or groups are scheduled to hold concerts in the first nine months of the year, up from 10 in the same period in 2010. James Blunt, Red Hot Chili Peppers, Suede, Paramore, Simple Plan and Linkin Park will take to the stage in the next two months."

    4. Lee, Ada (2012-04-25). "AsiaWorld-Expo expects business to remain buoyant". South China Morning Post. ProQuest 1009107462. Archived from the original on 2024-10-02. Retrieved 2024-10-02.

      The article notes: "He was speaking as the centre prepares to hold four shows by pop queen Lady Gaga next week, with others by Jacky Cheung Hok-yau, Jason Mraz and Stone Roses booked in the coming months. Canadian group Cirque du Soleil will perform at the venue in the summer."

    5. "AsiaWorld-Expo sees international events surge to draw tourists and purchasing power". The Standard. 2024-08-14. Archived from the original on 2024-10-02. Retrieved 2024-10-02.

      The article notes: "More than 120 concerts will be hosted this year at AWE, with over 30 concerts this summer featuring artists ranging from ... The latest example is the fan meeting of beloved South Korean actor Kim Soo Hyun, which attracted over 5,000 fans from around the world. ... AWE also hosted a K-pop concert by the girl idol group ITZY and a traditional Taoist ritual, drawing over 15,000 visitors in a single day."

    There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow the subject to pass Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject".

    Cunard (talk) 09:36, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

List of entertainment events at Central Harbourfront Event Space

[edit]
AfDs for this article:
List of entertainment events at Central Harbourfront Event Space (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Fails WP:NLIST overall, as the content of the list is not notable as a group. Seems to fail WP:NOTDB. Weakly defined inclusion criteria. mikeblas (talk) 14:19, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting, already at AFD so not eligible for Soft Deletion,
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 07:26, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 10:36, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]


[edit]

Running Man (Taiwanese TV series)

[edit]
Running Man (Taiwanese TV series) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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No assertion of notability. Cabayi (talk) 11:13, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Taipei Economic and Cultural Office in Guam

[edit]
Taipei Economic and Cultural Office in Guam (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Non notable consulate. Mccapra (talk) 07:55, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Gold Apollo AR924

[edit]
Gold Apollo AR924 (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Doesn't seem to pass WP:NPRODUCT. Seems only notable within the context of the 2024 Lebanon pager explosions, and doesn't appear to warrant a standalone article. Article did not exist prior to the explosions, nor seemingly any reliable sources covering it, failing the "sustained coverage" requirement of NPRODUCT. Hemiauchenia (talk) 00:00, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This particular model of pager seems to be notable only in the context of the 2024 Lebanon pager explosions. I can find no mention of "Gold Apollo AR-924," "Gold Apollo AR924" or "Gold Apollo AR" outside of news sources reporting the Israeli bombings. "Gold Apollo pager" returns only results for these news articles, the company's website, patent documents, and similar. The sources currently cited at the article fail the criteria for addressing the article topic "directly," as in the "significant coverage" criteria of WP:GNG.
While the particular model of pager is likely to receive a good amount of (temporary) media scrutiny from a few outlets, this will likely be only in the context of the above-mentioned bombings. Although WP:SUSTAINED does not apply to non-BLP articles, WP:NPRODUCT does, and although secondary sources refer to this particular device, there seems to be no claim to notability outside of this single event, for which we already have an article. Thus, I believe this article fails to establish notability for the topic, and our status as not an indiscriminate collection of information is applicable. Evan (talk|contribs) 00:06, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The model exists.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x50wwGjX2Ao
and
https://web.archive.org/web/20240917160632/https://www.apollosystemshk.com/product/42.html Mheretakis (talk) 23:06, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Well yes, we know it exists, that's not the issue being discussed. Oaktree b (talk) 00:40, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete No other model of pager produced by the company exists on Wikipedia, information related to this product should be at most made a small section on the manufacturer's page. Beyond recent events, it is otherwise completely irrelevant to anything other than the company. JohnWarosa (talk) 01:21, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete was a completely non-notable model of pager until this recent news story. Andre🚐 01:24, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep → Speedy keep. This is a weapon used in an attack. With up to 4000 victims, the event can have multiple articles. Possibly move to BAC Consulting. The technical details of the pager are not important, but the supply chain is. Note, that other weapons (talkie-talkies) were also used in the attack. The key question the article needs to answer is who made the pagers and who is responsible for their safety, Gold Apollo or BAC Consulting. Protecting Gold Apollo from bad publicity is not a reason for deleting the article. If they go bankrupt because of this, they fully deserve it. They had a responsibility to protect their trade mark.
P.S. - Wikipedia has an article on Stuxnet, but no article on the attack itself or the damage it caused. The Stuxnet article focuses on the weapon and on how it was delivered. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 01:48, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This is very flawed. The weapon was the explosives. Stuxnet was specific malware that exploited four zero day Windows vulnerabilities, and the article is about the engineered malware, and not about the model of USB drive it initially infected. But also that argument is off the point. The pager product is only notable if there are reliable independent secondary sources that significantly discuss the pager (not the attack, but the actual pager). Do we have any such sources? Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 07:34, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Petri Krohn; There is an article for the attack itself. Parham wiki (talk) 13:31, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I am now changing my !vote to speedy keep. It is becoming evident that the AR924 was not just some random Gold Apollo pager intercepted by Mossad (presumedly), but it was designed and manufactured by the Israelis using the Hungarian company BAC Consulting as a front. This implies that this was a multi-year Israeli operation, started in 2022 at the latest. This covert operation is distinct from the bloodshed that happened in Lebanon this week. I am redirecting BAC Consulting, to the article, as evidently the fake company had no other purpose than to produce these killer pagers.
@Parham wiki; Thank you for the link to Operation Olympic Games. In the Stuxnet case the article on the weapon is ten times as long as the article on the attack itself. I believe we will see a similar trend here. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 19:41, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
P.S. - Someone has stated Draft:BAC Consulting. I have suggested that it be merged to Gold Apollo AR924. The company is a fake front, established solely to produce the AR924 killer pagers. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 20:11, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You should only bold one of your keeps. By convention at AfD we only bold our !votes once. Also you have not specified a speedy criterion. I don't think any are eligible. I think you mean you are moving from keep to keep. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 19:53, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The flaw in this argument is that the exact make and model of pager that was manipulated does not provide justification for an article. Similarly, we have Bulgarian umbrella that details how umbrellas have been rebuilt into a murder weapon - but without creating an article on the actual model of umbrella that was modified - exactly because the make and model of the modified implement does not in itself provide it with notability. Lklundin (talk) 11:45, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The point is that the discussion of this device and the supply chain should be in the main explosion article, which is currently a small fraction of the size that would warrant a WP:SIZESPLIT. Hemiauchenia (talk) 13:25, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There are currently 19 sources on the article —danhash (talk) 16:32, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Which of these meet WP:NPRODUCT and WP:SIRS? Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 16:44, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. There are already articles for both the attack and the company who had the pager manufactured. Some information could go there. There are a lot of sources mentioning the pager, but only in the context of the attack. Specific coverage is lacking. Cortador (talk) 21:06, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

*Keep Edited and updated, not deleted. It should be about the AR924 mass produced and used in conflict weapon, not an article about a pager model. The story is developing and it appears this model may have only been produced as a weapon and not in Hungary which was a shell front. As a page about a weapon, it should be kept for the same reason "Little Boy" has a page, even though no one heard about it until after it exploded over Hiroshima, and it was also only used once. I am sure there is a page about the Manhattan Project, and one about the Hiroshima bombing. Yet the bomb itself has its own page. Notable weapons, especially the first of their type, need their own page because weapons have a design, explosive type and mass, range and effect, delivery method, an assembly, a development process, country that developed it, countries that possess it, number produced, uses in war. The AR924 is clearly notable for reasons mentioned by others and some of the reasons Little Boy is notable. Keysersmoze (talk) 08:44, 21 September 2024 (UTC) WP:ECR, only striking as it is referred to by other !votes. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 12:56, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep per Keeper of the Queen's Corgis and Cullen328, but most of all per Keysersmoze's comment above. The first instance of an entirely new kind of weapon; mass-manufactured booby-trapped remote-detonated personal devices. — The Anome (talk) 07:56, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Yes, if these are specifically manufactured as a booby trap device and are not a standard pager that was modified with a logic board and explosive, then it clearly becomes notable. But, what are the secondary sources that show this please? We have a lot of keeps, but still there is still no source discussion at all. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 11:36, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

Delete no one has provided any example of which sources meet WP:NPRODUCT. If someone is looking for this pager model they will be interested in the pager attacks where this is already mentioned. Traumnovelle (talk) 02:12, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting this discussion as I don't see a consensus yet. A few remarks though. As Sirfurboy states, there has been very little discussion on sources that would demonstrate notability rather than this pager just being "in the news". I will mention that since its nomination at AFD, this article has doubled in size. As an aside, it might be useful to not think of this article as about a pager and instead about a military weapon. We have plenty of articles about specific military weapons, from rifles to bombs and tanks, so that might be a better comparison than comparing to other articles about tech devices.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 00:33, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete: Doesn't meet notability for products. Coverage is largely from the last few days, nothing before this time. Non-notable product a week ago, nothing sustained. Unless this happens again with the same product, I don't see notability at this time. There were also Icom radios used, so this article doesn't represent the entirety of the story. Oaktree b (talk) 00:40, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: I don't necessarily think of this as a weapon, it was one of two used in the attack (the other being an Icom radio). It could be written about under the pager explosions article where we can cover both items used in the attack. My concern is also that there is no information about the "walkie talkies" used in the same attack; I can't see neutrality when we so extensively cover one of the two items used, while completely ignoring the second. Oaktree b (talk) 15:49, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

*:Hallo. Then write an entry about the second. Giammarco Ferrari (talk) 01:02, 28 September 2024 (UTC)WP:ECR. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 12:56, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • There's even less sourcing about the Icom radios, they aren't that popular to be honest. Oaktree b (talk) 23:25, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - The article has been expanded significantly since the RFD and its subject matter is notable due to its involvement in a major geopolitical event. --Posted by Pikamander2 (Talk) at 10:31, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge to 2024 Lebanon pager explosions. Despite repeated requests for sources, none have been discussed here, and I do not believe WP:NPRODUCT is met nor WP:GNG for an article about this model of a pager. I'll get to sourcing in a moment. I have read all the arguments above, and I am most impressed by Petri Krohn's argument that this specific pager was built only as a weapon. If it were true that the whole company were set up specifically to deliver this attack through this licensed pager model, and that the pager model had no other purpose than to deliver this attack then there would be a strong argument that it meets GNG. But, we don't actually know that is true at this stage. If this were merely a pager model that was modified in this particular shipment, then the pager model is simply not the weapon. Any pager would do. But despite waiting this long to !vote, I do not see that this matter has been clearly established. We do have one source in the article: [36]. The New York Times report on an intelligence briefing that alleges there was a complex Israeli manufacturing front that even shipped pagers to normal clients. But we remain too close to this event. That briefing may not be correct. I have unanswered questions. How could Israel know that Hezbollah would purchase that model? There are possible answers to that. Someone working for Israel involved in that purchasing decision in Hezbollah for instance. But we just do not know. There are no secondary sources here. And for the avoidance of doubt, I would not accept the NY Times reporting of the intelligence briefing as a suitable historical secondary source. There is a briefing, clearly primary. There is a newspaper that tells us what the briefing said. That is a discursive primary source because it is simply recounting the detail of the primary source without synthesis. The Guardian does the same, this time quoting the NY Times [37]. And those are the only two sources that provide anything that would make the pagers notable rather than the attack. All the other sources are clearly about the attack itself. Moreover the attack did not only affect these pagers but also walkie talkies using the same attack vector. The attack is clearly notable, and we must cover it. But we also need to think of the reader. Even if it is true that every single device of this model number was made by Israeli intelligence, we still have a WP:PAGEDECIDE issue. Because readers need to be directed to the page that best answers their information need, and web pages that link people off a primary page, and require the reader to read a second page to fill the gaps, will not serve that information need as well as a page that brings all the information together in context. The merge target discusses this pager by model number. Everything that is known about and can be said about this pager model can exist on the target page. The reader is best served by having this information there. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 12:12, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - I prefer to err on the side of inclusion for something that was part of a famous event. There are details in this article about the device that don't belong in the article about the explosions. --rogerd (talk) 20:14, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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