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June 9

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Category:Video games featuring cooperative play to Category:Computer and video games featuring cooperative gameplay

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was Rename. Vegaswikian 04:28, 17 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Per other CVG categories. Thunderbrand 23:53, 9 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was Delete but only those listed before late adds. Other ones can be added as a new nomination. Vegaswikian 04:58, 17 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  • Admin: Please note that this nomination has expanded to a deletion vote for many categories listed below.--Mike Selinker 06:02, 16 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • Many of these categories have been added just today. Shouldn't this nomination be relisted to give it another week for discussion for those who might not have seen a tag? --JeffW 13:38, 16 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
      • I certainly could see relisting it for a couple more days. A whole week seems a bit much. Can we put it right below the current day's list as "Extended until June 19" or something?--Mike Selinker 01:14, 17 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
      • I'm going to list the ones that were listed before today in the work queue to be deleted. They received notification and can be deleted. I think listing the others in a new nomination would be the most correct in terms of process. Vegaswikian 04:22, 17 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The article for Cindy Crawford, among others, is riddled with over 100 categories -- apparently, one for every company she's ever modelled with. This seems both excessive and... not the sort of thing Wikipedia really needs to categorize so precisely? Most of the categories have only a few articles, fewer than 5-10. This one only includes Crawford's article. Um. So, apologies, I'm new, this just seemed the right way to get the ball rolling if it needs a push. Luna Santin 23:14, 9 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I think this whole "supermodel" and subcategories thing, is unwieldy, unencyclopedic and POV, so have also nominated that Category:Supermodels be merged into Category:Models. Rossrs 14:52, 11 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete with consideration to Mike Selinker's suggestions. This whole topic needs discussion as does the Supermodel page which is getting cluttered to the point of not being useful. For lack of participation this one user charges forward with little discussion or response on talk pages. He has added good material but SHOUTS on Edit summaries and seems to believe that he is the only expert. Doc 14:50, 10 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Lil Flip246 has responded on his own talk page, but even with a link here he has not responded here. This is an example of his shouting on his edit summaries for Supermodel and on his own talk page:
26 Apr - (STOP REMOVING MY CONTRIBUTIONS)
18 Apr - (PLEASE DO NOT REMOVE INFO U HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE OF. I AM A FASHION EXPERT AND KNOW MORE ABOUT SUPERMODELS AND THE INDUSTRY.)
17 Apr - (PLEASE DO NOT REMOVE THEM!! I KNOW MORE ABOUT SUPERMODELS THAN YOU)
12 Apr - OKAY WHY ARE YOU CHANGING IT?? I MADE THIS CAT BECAUSE :IT WAS FOR NOTABLE CALVIN KLEIN MODELS. I'M A MODEL EXPERT SO I SHOULD KNOW!
He does not seem to think he needs to get consensus for anything Doc 22:10, 10 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Yipe. Well, nonetheless, it doesn't let us off the hook for finding a consensus ourselves. I think everyone here so far agrees that this categorization system has to go. What springs up in its place, if anything, can be decided later.--Mike Selinker 00:29, 11 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Football venues in Kyrgystan

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The result of the debate was Delete (empty) --William Allen Simpson 01:14, 17 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Misspelling of the country Kyrgyzstan. All (1) articles have already been moved to an appropriately-named category. fuzzy510 22:55, 9 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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Category:East Coast Hockey League players to Category:ECHL players

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The result of the debate was rename per nom. Conscious 16:07, 20 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It seems weird I know, but officially ECHL doesn't stand for anything anymore, it is just a meaningless set of initials. The league renamed itself when they began expanding away from the East Coast of the United States. BoojiBoy 22:11, 9 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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Category:List of Mexican-American War Veterans

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The result of the debate was merge to Category:Mexican-American War people. Conscious 16:09, 20 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This category is filled with people whose significance has not been asserted, and Category:Mexican-American War people already exists. Medtopic 22:10, 9 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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Category:GCSE English Literature Set Texts

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The result of the debate was Delete. Vegaswikian 04:55, 17 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - This is a category better served by a list. This is not a defining characteristic of the texts categorized. Also opens a nasty door to categorizing every work of literature by what must be thousands of different school curriculums. MakeRocketGoNow 21:32, 9 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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Category:Canadian top-fifty singles

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The result of the debate was Delete (no merge) --William Allen Simpson 01:14, 17 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Seems like a really bad idea, as this means nearly every single gets a half dozen more categories based on where it charted in which country. The fact that over half of these are by Destiny's Child and Mariah Carey suggests it's mostly one user at work here. The number ones can stay, but this should go.--Mike Selinker 20:31, 9 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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Category:Frigates of the United States Navy to Category:Frigates and destroyer escorts of the United States

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The result of the debate was Rename to Category:Frigates and destroyer escorts of the United States Navy. Vegaswikian 04:51, 17 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"Frigate" and "destroyer escort" are, in a 20th century sense, synonymous. The rest of the world used "frigate" while the USN used "destroyer escort." In 1975 all USN destroyer escorts were renamed frigates. It would be helpful to have one category to contain both, because they are part of one continuous line of evolution. I have placed "frigates" first because it will sort alphabetically with "Frigates of the United Kingdom", etc. I have dropped "Navy" because it is redundant; a frigate is a warship, therefore it must be of the USN. TomTheHand 20:28, 9 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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Category:Singles by number

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The result of the debate was Delete (empty) --William Allen Simpson 01:14, 17 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Designed to parallel category:Albums by number, which we just deleted. I've moved category:Debut singles out of this and into category:Singles.--Mike Selinker 20:26, 9 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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Category:2004 sports events to Category:2004 in sports

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Category:2006 sports events to Category:2006 in sports

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The result of the debate was Merge. Vegaswikian 04:31, 17 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Merge [both]. Redundant categor[ies]. BoojiBoy 19:18, 9 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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Category:Virginia soccer to Category:Soccer in Virginia

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The result of the debate was Rename. Vegaswikian 04:32, 17 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Per naming conventions, see cat:Soccer in the United States etc. Punkmorten 18:50, 9 June 2006 (UTC).[reply]

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Category:Placename etymology to Category:Placename etymologies

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The result of the debate was rename. Conscious 16:13, 20 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Placename etymologies doesn't make it clear that this category is for lists of etymologies. JeffW 18:15, 9 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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Category:Billboard Hot Dance/Club Play artists to Category:Dance/Club music artists

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The result of the debate was Merge. Vegaswikian 04:53, 17 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Moved from speedy after objection. Vegaswikian 16:32, 9 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Renaming of category Robert Moore 00:58 09 June 2006 (UTC)

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Category:Universal Monsters to Category:Universal monsters

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The result of the debate was Rename to Category:Universal Monsters universe. Vegaswikian 04:47, 17 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Moved from speedy after objection. Vegaswikian 16:30, 9 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

caps -- ProveIt (talk) 16:05, 7 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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Category:Cities and towns in Italy

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The result of the debate was Speedy deleted. Vegaswikian 04:58, 16 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

When I was going throught this to close, I closed the discussion as delete since the link was red and appeared to have been listed as a delete. This was an error in that it should have been a merge as has been pointed out. I'll create the new cat and do the moves. 06:02, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Merge of Category:Towns in Italy and Category:Cities in Italy into the new category Category:Cities and towns in Italy. There is currently no distinction in which category ("City" or "Town") municipalities fall into (there is no distinction in Italian either). A categorization scheme like Category:Cities and towns in Sicily, where towns/cities of all sizes are together should probably be adopted.

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Royal mistresses

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The result of the debate was Rename. Vegaswikian 04:35, 17 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I have just created these, taking the form from the article Mistresses of the Swedish royal family, but in their current form they can be misconstrued, so I would like to suggest a switch to a different form, which is also shorter:

Please note that these are not "by nationality" categories as a fair number of women were not of the same nationality of their royal lover. Also, not all of the royals in question were monarchs.

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Category:Babenberg to Category:House of Babenberg

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The result of the debate was Rename. Vegaswikian 04:36, 17 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This category references a royal-nobel family which ruled Austria in the Middle Ages, not a place. Chicheley 06:49, 9 June 2006 (UTC).[reply]

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Category:American World War I officers

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The result of the debate was Delete (no merge) --William Allen Simpson 01:14, 17 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Unnecessary category, already well covered by an American WWI vets category and each branch of the military has an officer category. The category doesn't specify what branch of the military, and there is no criteria listed for inclusion - WWI era service (the US entered the war after it had been going on for about 3 years), or in-theater service. Nobunaga24 05:02, 9 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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Category:Cabinet secretaries in the United States to Category:Cabinet secretaries of the United States
and subcategories using "in"

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Subcategories of Category:Government ministers by country

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The result of the debate was rename. Conscious 16:16, 20 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Per here, naming these categories "[occupation] in [country]" seems odd. Suggest they are all renamed using "of" rather than "in". David Kernow 02:49, 9 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  • Rename all as nom. Abstaining for time being. David Kernow 02:49, 9 June 2006 (UTC), amended 13:33, 9 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. These are political offices, not garden-variety occupations. In our occupation-based sections, we classify by occupation + nationality of the person (so the nationality modifies the person, not the occupation itself... widget-makers that are danes, not makers of danish widgets.). These are state-based, and hence the state is modifying the office, not the person (people who work in the state apparatus associated with India, not Indians who work in state apparatuses anywhere). Also, note something like "Government ministers of Canada" implies strongly that they are federal-level office holders, when the cat actually contains a variety of offices at different levels of the federation as well as offices for antecedents states on the territory of Canada not named "Canada". Similar factors come into play for any federal state, and also the UK and so on. There's also a long history in colonial contexts of administrators of particular states not being identified with the domestic nationality--Chris Patten, for instance, is not a "Chinese politician" but someone who was a "Political office-holder in China". The rationale for these is noted at WP:NCCAT. The Tom 03:36, 9 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Yikes. Did you read this?  Meanwhile, I agree that Chris Patten was a political office-holder in a place. My experience is that the "in" becomes an "of" when a generic description such as "political office-holder" is made more specific. So I guess I'd say he was govenor of Hong Kong. Jane Doe is a minister in a government, but a minister of a country or other region (per ibid.). Maybe that's where the distinction lies; between association with an organization (such as a government) and a region...?  Thanks for your input, David Kernow 04:26, 9 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
PS Re misleading federal overtones, I agree; how about categorizing these officials as "of" the region for which they are accountable/responsible...?  Regards, David 04:33, 9 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, didn't catch the first Australian example. In any case, there'd be awkwardness in having "Government ministers of New South Wales" be a subcat of "Government ministers of Australia" because the latter has an intrinsic federal implication rather than a nice super-categoryish feel. The rule of thumb that's sort of evolved is particular offices get the "of" (ie, "Governors-General of Australia", "Premiers of New South Wales" while groups of office of a certain class get the "in" (ie. "Premiers in Australia"). That should certainly be up for renegotiation if we can come up with a cleaner system that's demonstrably better in all aspects, but I personally have yet to be sold on any other kind of delineation. Finally, it's worth pointing out that "Ministers of Australia" implies that the term "Minister of Australia" is commonly used as a descriptor for such offices when to the best of my knowedge such constructions never get used. The Tom 06:05, 9 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • How about (1) making {subcategories that contain articles on individuals} subcategories that are "of" the region for which those individuals are/were responsible and accountable; and (2) making/keeping those {higher-level categories that carry only subcategories} categories that use "in (country)", with a line or two of explanation for the "in" on the category page?  Would that work?  (I'd hope the brief explanation – perhaps make it a template – would help folk coming by these categories as I did.)  Something I meant to say before: I acknowledge the thought you (and others) have already given here!  Regards, David 13:21, 9 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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Singles by artist into Songs by artist

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The result of the debate was Rename/Merge The items split out will be kept along with the parent group. They may be nominated again in the future allowing time for consensus to develop. Vegaswikian 04:43, 17 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I've posted a debate here which proposes the deletion of the Category:Singles by artist. Having received no real outrage at the proposal, I'm listing them for merging and/or renaming. This all follows a successful passage of a deletion recommendation on the category "Weezer singles," on the grounds that it almost entirely overlapped Category:Weezer songs, and that the entire category structure that required splitting songs into two different categories was flawed. Some users follow it, but many others do not. In very rare cases, an artist's work is notable for all of its songs like in Category:The Beatles songs, but in many cases, singles and songs are basically coterminous (e.g., Category:Mariah Carey singles). Basically, those of us who support this want one song category per artist. (Please note that the singles chronology and infobox would be untouched by this proposal. Those are great.)

Here are the ones that everyone seems in agreement should be moved/merged:
Update: All categories tagged and listed here. I've also occasionally added a non-singles category to smooth out the wording of the "songs" categories.--Mike Selinker 01:35, 9 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

As a separate group, here are ones that at least some users recommend be kept for now, till we can figure out how to deal with them.

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Category:Deceased fictional characters

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The result of the debate was Delete (no merge) --William Allen Simpson 01:14, 17 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Ambiguous, broad, and so sparsely populated I find it difficult to believe it is useful. Lkjhgfdsa 00:17, 9 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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