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Chicagoland Sports Hall of Fame

The Chicagoland Sports Hall of Fame list is not yet ready for prime time, but please see User:Smallbones/drafts and let me know what you think, particularly regarding notability. I wouldn't want to start the article and then have it deleted for not being notable.

There are also issues regarding formating (I think I know how to get it sortable again), perhaps OR, and tracking down who are some of the honorees. Any advice would be appreciated.

Perhaps the biggest favor you could do me is to suggest some old Chicago sports fans who might check some of my work and fill in vacant boxes. It's actually kind of fun.

Any help appreciated,

Smallbones (talk) 17:59, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the advice. I went ahead and started the article, and will plead for help on the WP:Chicago talk page. Smallbones (talk) 20:30, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

CA cities and mayors of 100,000 population

You recently went through and updated a whole bunch of city pages to reflect this information, which is fine. But on all of the cities' pages, the text at the bottom reads "Mayors of cities with 100,000 populations in the California". And I couldn't figure out how to modify the template (or whatever) that creates this text. Any chance you can fix the text to have proper English? Jokeboy (talk) 19:28, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Update - Well, that edit certainly fixed *a* problem, but not the one I was referring to. Go to the Sunnyvale page, scroll to the bottom, and check out the text that appears in the blue bar that you caused to be added to it. It reads "Mayors of cities with 100,000 populations in the California". That's what I was referring to - both 'populations' and 'in the California'. Thanks for your promptness, regardless. - Jokeboy (talk) 22:03, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

You're right - I checked the template, Sunnyvale, Santa Clara, and even Los Angeles (a page that I've never visited), plus flushing my cache, to make sure it wasn't some sort of browser issue. I don't understand why your edit didn't propagate. Maybe we call in bigger guns? Maybe we just wait? It isn't urgent, so I'm fine with waiting it out. Thanks again - Jokeboy (talk) 22:40, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

{{Iowa Secretaries of State}}

Thanks for fixing this error: I guess you can see whence I copied it :-) Nyttend (talk) 20:58, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

DYK for Kasim Reed

Updated DYK query On 3 December, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Kasim Reed, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

BorgQueen (talk) 02:11, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Re: TfD

Yep I withdrew. Simply decided my objection wasn't strong enough. --WoohookittyWoohoo! 05:42, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Yeah it's kind of hard to determine what's a "large city". I think much of it depends on the state. For example, I live in a state with just 3 cities over 100,000 people. So a city such as Eau Claire, which would be considered a "small town" in California or New York, is considered a "good-sized city" in Wisconsin. For Wisconsin, 50,000 is a much better demarcation than 100,000. But in California, 200 or 300,000 might be a better marker. It's just very hard to determine it on a national basis. And yes mayors of a city in a large metropolitan area might have very little power due to larger cities in the same area. --WoohookittyWoohoo! 06:04, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
There's no way a city of 62,000 would be considered a "small town" in New York. California, sure, but only eight cities in New York are more populous than Eau Claire. But that just illustrates the arbitrariness of the 100,000-person cutoff. The NY template looks silly without Albany on there, even though it has just under 100,000 people, because NY-Buffalo-Rochester-Syracuse-Albany are considered the "big five" cities. (Yonkers is an outlier because it's in the NYC metro area.) I think there should be a discussion about this before you (Tony) make any more, though I don't know the best place for that discussion (TfD is too adversarial at this point, IMHO.) Powers T 15:07, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
Superficially, better (but what about those states where the capital is already on the list?), but I must say I'm still not a huge fan of the idea. As a navigational template, I'm not sure it's all that useful to readers. Maybe on the mayors' articles, but not really on the city articles. Powers T 15:41, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Re: Will Venable GA

I've added the GA to all of the WP:GA pages. If there are any in any projects that need doing as well, could you do them? I think I'd just get lost... Apterygial talkstalkinsane idea 07:06, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Cities of more than 100k

Noticed that you had templates for these in several states. The one for mayors was placed on Athens, Georgia. This seems to me to be better placed on their bios or on "Government of Athens", an article which will probably not separately exist for another two years! I suppose a "cities of over 100k" template could be used though. My point is that the template seems to promote mayors when the article should be explaining Athens itself. Thanks.Student7 (talk) 13:26, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Ooops. They are merged. I think I would rather see them separated. I think that far fewer people will be interested in who is mayor than the identity of the city. The mayor changes, the city most likely won't shrink! Student7 (talk) 13:31, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
Double oops. I just took your first idea about discussing it on WP:CITIES and attacked (gulp) the templates there. I can erase it if you think it is out of line or out of place. Your call. Thanks. Student7 (talk) 16:09, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Re: Delisting

Its stated here. --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 15:24, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Howdy

Thanks so much for the info. Have A Great Day! Lord R. Oliver I His Lordship's Court 22:07, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Upright

Hi, Tony. The "upright" paramater in a thumbnail image means that the size of the thumbnail is determined by the image height instead of its width. It's good to use for tall images, so they don't overwhelm the page. --Orlady (talk) 00:50, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

And, further to "Midnight Madness" -- ref 16 in that article points to Wikipedia, not to about.com as advertised. --Orlady (talk) 01:53, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

100k city mayor templates

What action at templates for deletion? Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • (Broken clamshells • Otter chirps • HELP) 18:05, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

DYK for Midnight Madness (basketball)

Updated DYK query On 6 December, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Midnight Madness (basketball), which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

BorgQueen (talk) 03:31, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

NowCommons: Image:Barack and Michelle Obama with Oprah Winfrey.jpg

Image:Barack and Michelle Obama with Oprah Winfrey.jpg is now available on Wikimedia Commons as Commons:Image:Michelle, Oprah Winfrey and Barack Obama.jpg. This is a repository of free media that can be used on all Wikimedia wikis. The image will be deleted from Wikipedia, but this doesn't mean it can't be used anymore. You can embed an image uploaded to Commons like you would an image uploaded to Wikipedia, in this case: [[Image:Michelle, Oprah Winfrey and Barack Obama.jpg]]. Note that this is an automated message to inform you about the move. This bot did not copy the image itself. --Erwin85Bot (talk) 11:42, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

GA help

You have many GA's. Can you help me with my first one, Alan Mulally? You could either review it and show me how a review is done or you can help me improve/re-write it (a probably harder thing for you to do). If you review it and pass it (along with any suggestions), this would be a good learning experience. Thank you. Chergles (talk) 20:19, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Editprotect

I purged cache. Now the template is in the category. Ruslik (talk) 20:22, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Scott Smith (mayor)

Have another look at Scott Smith (mayor). I think I have resolved all of your issues. You seem to be a Rocky Mountain time zone specialist and AZ is in that time zone part of the year. If you can help with any issues at Talk:Scott_Smith_(mayor)#Curiosities feel free to jump in and edit away.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 15:17, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the update. I've passed the article! --Eustress (talk) 18:00, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
When you pass an article don't forget to update the project templates.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 19:30, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
I review an article for you, and that's all you have to say? Sheesh! --Eustress (talk) 21:52, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

New article

Just wanted to call your attention to a new article, White City Amusement Park. Shsilver (talk) 13:25, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

100 K template

You know, Tony, it might just be a good idea to lose the arbitrary cut-off of 100,000 (as a compromise) and simply have the template include the top ten cities in each state by population. See this list from the State of Illinois. Just a thought. --IvoShandor (talk) 14:02, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Alaska Supreme Court

The {{USStateChiefJustices}} template refers to either the position (Chief Justice) or the individual (Fabe, right now); not the court. "It is fairly standard at Category:United States political leader templates to include templates on both the office and the officeholder articles." Exactly. Alaska Supreme Court is neither of those. TJRC (talk) 20:59, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Let's have the discussion to Talk:Alaska Supreme Court. This isn't a 1:1 topic. TJRC (talk) 21:09, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
Actually, I take that back. This isn't confined to one article, and I was about to suggest that we open a discussion on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Law instead. But I see someone already has. See Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Law#Template listing all the US state Chief Justices. Let's join in the discussion there. TJRC (talk) 21:14, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Irish American Heritage Center

Hi there, I see you are in charge of Chicago. Could you create an article on the Irish American Heritage Center? Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL 66.57.190.166 (talk) 04:10, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Tireless Contributor Barnstar

The Tireless Contributor Barnstar
I User:WikiLeon present to you this barnstar for improving the articles of internet celebrities. wL<speak·check> 05:21, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

DYK for Scott Smith (mayor)

Updated DYK query On 9 December, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Scott Smith (mayor), which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

BorgQueen (talk) 06:23, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Re Template:Current US state Chief Justices

Hi again Tony and thanks for your recent messages. Re Template:Current US state Chief Justices, I realized there'd be a handful of links that would be redirected, but thought that'd be okay as it can happen with similar kinds of templates elsewhere (e.g. Template:United States topic and the other templates in Category:Configurable area-topic templates). I did once know that NY's Supreme Court wasn't as supreme as other states' Supreme Courts, but, rather than try amending the template to accommodate this exception, how about a footnote to clarify it? Sardanaphalus (talk) 11:45, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

PS I've just read through Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Biography#State by state 100,000 population city and mayors templates but haven't left a comment (at least, not yet) as I'm torn between the arguments given. I realize this would mean shelving some fine-looking template work, but perhaps the optimum solution is to transfer the templates' contents to "List of" articles which are then linked from the appropriate articles' "See also" sections..? (I haven't checked whether this option already exists.) Sardanaphalus (talk) 11:57, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

  • You mean stop the template from using {{US states navbox with columns}}..? Seems a pity, since the links and redirects work fine and any Chief Justice name that redirects can be amended. Re NY, it could be argued that it shouldn't have an entry (or should only have a footnote) as its Supreme Court doesn't have a Chief Justice -- or does it? Anyway, whatever you think best. Sardanaphalus (talk) 04:36, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
Well, as I said, whatever you think best. I reckon ensuring links are bold when they're on the page they link is worthwhile, but not a major concern if it complicates template design. Also, it's easy for people to rename pages, stopping the bold from occurring. (Maybe, though, this is something a future version of the Wikipedia software can handle.) Sardanaphalus (talk) 05:00, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Weisner clarification

Tony, I'm not totally sure, but I think Suntag's argument there was not that Weisner's biography is too boring, but that the article has an NPOV slant. (Personally, I don't know if it does or not, I haven't even looked at the article in days—that just seems to me be the argument Suntag was putting forth.) I'm not trying to criticize you or anything, I just wanted to try and clarify, since I think at DYK we (collectively) often end up talking around one another (and I am just as guilty of that as anyone). Anyway, I won't be making any further comments on the nomination at T:TDYK, but I also just wanted to say, thank you for being civil and respectful in the discussion, I appreciate it. Best, —Politizer talk/contribs 20:51, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of María del Luján Telpuk

A proposed deletion template has been added to the article María del Luján Telpuk, suggesting that it be deleted according to the proposed deletion process because of the following concern:

Orphan article. Popular person, not relevant. What is relevant in this case would be the episode of the suitcase, but not this girl's life. Redundant with Maletinazo

All contributions are appreciated, but this article may not satisfy Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and the deletion notice should explain why (see also "What Wikipedia is not" and Wikipedia's deletion policy). You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{dated prod}} notice, but please explain why you disagree with the proposed deletion in your edit summary or on its talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised because, even though removing the deletion notice will prevent deletion through the proposed deletion process, the article may still be deleted if it matches any of the speedy deletion criteria or it can be sent to Articles for Deletion, where it may be deleted if consensus to delete is reached. 190.224.215.138 (talk) 16:59, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

GA for Nate Parker

I have reviewed the article and placed it on hold. Please let me know if you have any questions or concerns. Otto4711 (talk) 23:34, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

DYK for White City Amusement Park

Updated DYK query On 11 December, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article White City Amusement Park, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Backslash Forwardslash 23:52, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

GA reviews

Hi, Tony. I was wondering if you had any interest in reviewing articles. GAN has an impressive backlog as it is (see here, and with your clear experience in writing GAs, you could have the skills needed to review as well. GA could be heading towards limiting nominations per user (this small discussion, which is obviously not a desirable solution but could be necessary if the backlog continues to grow. You may also want to comment on the discussion, as you would be one of the hardest hit by such a change. Apterygial 09:18, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

DYK for Tom Weisner

Updated DYK query On 12 December, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Tom Weisner, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

BorgQueen (talk) 18:06, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

More On White City Amusement Park

DevorahLeah (talk) 06:47, 13 December 2008 (UTC) Tony, I am so pleased that my help with the Merle Reskin theatre got it up to a GA!!! I looked over the White City entry quickly, and was interested to know what sorts of things you'd like added.

Also, a shameless plug for my new book which just came out-- it's called "Icons of Talk: The Media Mouths That Changed America" and it's a history of talk shows, past and present, with profiles of some of the best known talk show hosts. [1]

Tony, I did my usual amount of research and I've found all sorts of good stuff to expand the article, including more about the owners, what some of the special events held there were, more about the Blimp story, and something few people cover-- the attitude of the park towards admitting people of colour. (In the early years, it was frowned upon, according to several very reputable black newspapers.) As always, I'll add the material, and if you could clean up the citations, I'd be very grateful. Might this be another GA, or is it not eligible? Hope all is well with you. We got 13 inches of snow in Boston... DevorahLeah (talk) 07:38, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
Tony, thank you, and I won't put you through that again. I'm still feeling rather wretched, but at least the article got done and I hope it is now a GA or that it has more of what you were seeking. Please let me know, as I worked hard on it. Sorry for any inconvenience to you, and I wish you and yours a wonderful holiday. DevorahLeah (talk) 17:52, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

Articles

I had a look at those two articles about Blagojevich. The longer one is close to GA level (I rated it B-class), the second is a stub. The first one is probably to unstable for GAN right now, but can go to DYK. Ruslik (talk) 18:33, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Now commons update FYI

— Athaenara ✉ 02:20, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

GA for Charlie Fonville

Thanks for letting me know. I'll take a look tomorrow, time permitting. By the way, I've gone back to working a bit on the UM Athletic HOF inductees, creating new articles for Henry Hatch, Bruce Hilkene and Dick Kempthorn. Also, your Saxbe Fix DYK with almost 40,000 views was amazing. Cbl62 (talk) 07:26, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

I also have 1980 Michigan Wolverines football team abd 1981 Rose Bowl under development. BTW, page stats aren't available yet for yesterday. It will be interesting to see if your Blago hook breaks the record. Cbl62 (talk) 16:10, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
Usually, Henrik would have the stats up by now. He may be taking some time off for the holidays. Hopefully, the data is not lost. I really have no idea how he does it, but it's a great tool. Cbl62 (talk) 19:57, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

United States House of Representatives special elections in Illinois, 2009

Please see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/United States House of Representatives special elections in Illinois, 2009.—Markles 17:22, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

DYK for Arthur Schultz

Updated DYK query On 15 December, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Arthur Schultz, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

BorgQueen (talk) 10:22, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

DYK "appoint"

Source checks, EXCEPT the word "nominate" in the hook should be "appoint". Why not use the picture in the article?

I added this to the DYK nomination. Hope it helps

Smallbones (talk) 22:27, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

DYK for Rod Blagojevich federal fraud cases

Updated DYK query On 16 December, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Rod Blagojevich federal fraud cases, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

BorgQueen (talk) 16:46, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

DYN for United States House of Representatives special elections in Illinois, 2009

United States House of Representatives special elections in Illinois, 2009 is not eligible for DYN as long as the AFD is up. Also, keep in mind that although there is no strict prohibition, DYN isn't really for newsish items, it's for things that people may not know. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 18:34, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Your talk page header

Your talk page header, with several rows of GAs and other ornaments, is hard to read in the Firefox web browser: Parts of it overwrite other parts. Consider making a shorter header that links to a more detailed sub-page in your user space, maybe something like: "FA: 5 FL: 9 FP: 1 FPO: 1 DYK: 1 Crown: 1 FT/GT: 1, GA: 100+" davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 18:38, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

DYK for United States Conference of Mayors

Updated DYK query On 17 December, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article United States Conference of Mayors, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

BorgQueen (talk) 04:56, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Offer

Hi Tony, I keep thinking a map of Millennium Park would be useful in it and a series of articles. I would be willing to work on such a map, if you also think it would be useful. I would also need your input on what to include / exclude. Happy holidays, Ruhrfisch ><>°° 03:21, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

DYK for Operation Board Games

Updated DYK query On 19 December, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Operation Board Games, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

BorgQueen (talk) 17:46, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Sign

Hi, Tony! You forgot to sign here. I don't like to use the unsigned template, and I'm telling you so that you can do the signing yourself :) Chamal talk 04:50, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

Congrats

...although it might not be as good as you expected. --BorgQueen (talk) 19:51, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

talkback

Hello, TonyTheTiger. You have new messages at Backslash Forwardslash's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

DYK for United States House of Representatives special elections in Illinois, 2009

Updated DYK query On 21 December, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article United States House of Representatives special elections in Illinois, 2009, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

BorgQueen (talk) 12:21, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

Richard Cordray

Congratulations on this article's promotion to FA. I shall look out for this rising star of the future. Brianboulton (talk) 00:57, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

DYK for John W. Rogers, Jr.

Updated DYK query On 22 December, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article John W. Rogers, Jr., which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

BorgQueen (talk) 18:51, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

DYK for Barack Obama 2009 presidential inauguration

Updated DYK query On 23 December, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Barack Obama 2009 presidential inauguration, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

BorgQueen (talk) 19:26, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (File:Four Freedoms Book.gif)

Thanks for uploading File:Four Freedoms Book.gif. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that all non-free media not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. BJBot (talk) 05:14, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Seasons Greetings

Tony, my very best wishes for the festive season stay safe and talk to you in 2009.--VS talk 11:42, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

<font=3> Happy Holidays and all the best for the New Year! Ruhrfisch ><>°° 06:21, 25 December 2008 (UTC)
Wishing you the very best for the season. Guettarda (talk) 07:19, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

Illinois election article

Please stop the edit war. There is a policy called wp:Crystal which the article violates. I understand your personal interest in maintaining the article, but Wikipedia has a set of policies that ought to be considered.—Markles 20:39, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

Persondata

Per Wikipedia:Persondata, please remember that the last name is first, followed by a comma. i.e. same way they'd be alphabetized in a print encyclopedia, please check out User talk:Dr pda/persondata.js which is a useful script for automatically adding the template and some of the relevant fields, it may be of use to use. Thanks! --Rajah (talk) 16:39, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Talk:Midnight Madness (basketball)/GA1

Hi, I have reviewed this article, and placed it on hold. I may have gone a bit more in detail than you expected, so beware! Dabomb87 (talk) 02:20, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Adding military service

Hello. I have an initial response to your question at Template talk:Infobox Gridiron football person#Adding military info. Cheers! DoubleBlue (talk) 06:20, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Tiger Woods

Hi. These statements in the Tiger Woods lead have already been challenged and, as they were uncited, removed. Putting them back in without cites isn't helping make a better article.

  • "is credited with prompting a major surge of interest in the game of golf." - who is crediting him with this? Where is the evidence for it? In which country/countries?
  • "He dramatically increased attendance and TV ratings and generated interest among a multicultural audience" - Do you have figures you can cite here?
  • "in a game that used to be considered insular and elitist" - "considered" is a weasel word. Who is doing the considering here and why is their opinion notable?

Thanks. --Escape Orbit (Talk) 18:37, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Happy New Year!

<font=3> Happy New Year 2009, and may all your articles get promoted!
Brianboulton (talk) 19:20, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
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