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Haciendas

@Rosiestep: no rush, because I truly have no idea what I am doing here. I have no idea how to get the tables or infoboxes from the Spanish site [1] to my draft. Obviously I also need to add the photos from commons. I sort of merged the template from Hacienda Santa Rosa de Lima and the Spanish site into my draft User:SusunW/Hacienda Cacao. Found some interesting tidbits. But not much on the house itself yet. Will ask my dinner guests at tomorrow's weekly gathering where to look for more info on these. SusunW (talk) 06:05, 28 April 2015 (UTC)

@Dr. Blofeld: regarding the demographics template in this es article, es:Cacao (Abalá), do you know how we would bring it into this en article, User:SusunW/Hacienda Cacao, short of re-creating the template? --Rosiestep (talk) 17:08, 28 April 2015 (UTC)

Ask User:Pigsonthewing for help, he knows templates. (Note, he is someone I like and respect, so tell him you know me and I recommended you contact him, else he may be a little curmudgeon-ly). Montanabw^(talk) 01:00, 29 April 2015 (UTC)

@Montanabw: @Montanabw: thanks! Actually @Pigsonthewing: is fabulous. If you remember, he fixed my info box problem on native leaders in like seconds. (Okay, maybe minutes). But, we have a list going of some 80+ haciendas in Yucatán. Most have articles on Spanish wiki, and I can translate them, but don't know how to imbed either the maps or the demographic information. It requires a technical skill I do not have. Research, writing, I can do. Programming, not remotely. ;) SusunW (talk) 01:15, 29 April 2015 (UTC)

User:RexxS is also a good egg with the techie stuff, and if he can't fix it, he will know who can. Montanabw^(talk) 01:39, 29 April 2015 (UTC)

@Montanabw: Like

@Rosiestep: I also have User:SusunW/Hacienda Chenché de las Torres prepared and can take it to mainspace when we figure out how to imbed the map and demographics. They found the house archives in it. Can you even imagine what jewels might be in there? SusunW (talk) 04:09, 29 April 2015 (UTC)

@Rosiestep: Is there something that I need to put on the file that says I used the template from the Spanish site? I didn't exactly translate it from their page because I had the Yucatecan government page and I found more info than they had, but I did dopy their format. Credit where credit is due, so to speak. Thanks! SusunW (talk) 14:14, 29 April 2015 (UTC)

The template you need, on this wiki, is {{Infobox settlement}}. Have a go at using it (just copy the blank, and enter the relevant values, and let me know if you need further help. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 06:43, 29 April 2015 (UTC)

@Pigsonthewing: help! I pulled the template and between the info that is on the Yucatán box and the info that is in the Cacao (Abalá)(es) box, I got the photo and some of the details to show up on my page User:SusunW/Hacienda Cacao. But I don't have the maps? and it is too big? and I am not sure if the latitude coord is E or W (East = Oriente; West = Occidente) but it made no difference in how it showed up in preview no matter what I changed it to. If I can figure out what to put in the template of one of these haciendas I can just copy it to the other 100, but I need to figure it out first. Can you tell me what I have in there wrong? Also, on the Spanish Cacao page is a section with demographics in a table. How do I get that here? Thanks for your help! SusunW (talk) 14:10, 29 April 2015 (UTC)

@Deor: Thank you! I have no idea what you did but you fixed the size and I got one of the images. :) SusunW (talk) 14:19, 29 April 2015 (UTC)

@Pigsonthewing:, @Deor: or @RexxS: I'd still like to get the Yucatán map added to the info box, but don't know how to add the second map. Also do not know how to get the demographics table from the Spanish article into my English one. Will be grateful to anyone who can help. We have about 100 of these to do and I have 3 written but sitting on hold while I try to figure out the technical stuff. SusunW (talk) 23:05, 29 April 2015 (UTC)

I've added the second push-pin map for you (excuse me editing your sandbox). There is a list of available maps at Template:Location_map/List if you need to use others. --RexxS (talk) 23:26, 29 April 2015 (UTC)

And now I've added the demographics table for you. Pardon me again for editing in your space, but it's easier just to do it than to try to describe how. Hopefully you can see what I've done and you'll be able to mimic that for future articles, but feel free to ping any of us if you have problems. Cheers --RexxS (talk) 23:43, 29 April 2015 (UTC)

Really enjoyed watching the "Yucatan Living tour of Hacienda Chenche de Las Torres". --Rosiestep (talk) 03:24, 30 April 2015 (UTC)}}

@RexxS: Thank you soooooo much. Please feel free to jump into my sandbox any time. I'm not yet sure how you did that but the other two I have written to this point are User:SusunW/Hacienda Chenché de las Torres and User:SusunW/Hacienda Chenkú both needing the second map and the demographics table. Tomorrow, when I am fresher and more awake, I'll see if I can figure out what you did. @Rosiestep: I know....good find. SusunW (talk) 03:39, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

@RexxS: Fresh eyes this morning and I was able to fix the maps on all 3. Thank you, thank you, thank you! I totally appreciate those of you with technical skills as I do not have them. :) SusunW (talk) 13:13, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

Hi Susun, would you have a look at Wikipedia:Copying within Wikipedia #Translating from other language Wikimedia projects and then this template: {{translated page}}, please. If you have based some of your content on that of the Spanish Wikipedia, then it would be good to place that template near the top of the talk page of the article you create. For example, you could put this {{translated page|es|Cacao (Abalá)|version=76730538|insertversion=659605690}} on Talk:Hacienda Cacao if you felt it was appropriate. Cheers, --RexxS (talk) 19:34, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

@RexxS: Thank you! I had asked someone else how to do that. Though little of it is a direct translation since I had to find sourcing, I did think it was appropriate because the format came from their pages, as did the photographs. Now to figure out where you got those version numbers. I already took Chenche de las Torres live too and am trying to get Chenkú ready. SusunW (talk) 19:40, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

I usually just say {{translated|de|TITLE there|small=no}}, especially if it is no literal translation. If you need the versions, you go to article history, click on the version on the day when you translate, let's assume the most recent one: there you find a number. Do the same thing for the version when you inserted or on the day you moved from user to Main space, for the other number. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:21, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

I do the same thing, except I haven't used the small=no suffix. --Rosiestep (talk) 03:51, 1 May 2015 (UTC)

Thank you @RexxS: for all of your help. @Gerda Arendt: you rock! I think I got them in properly on the 3 that are now live. I used their pages for photos, maps and the demographics, but the text I am translating directly from the government sources and others I have found because I found a few things on the Spanish pages that were not as clear as I thought they needed to be. Truly appreciate all the help. SusunW (talk) 20:30, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

You are welcome to thank the cabal of the outcasts ;) - I just installed a new feature, to add and discuss Posts, and would like feedback if it seems useful and if yes, how more useful. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:36, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

You are welcome in the cabal of the outcasts ;) - We are proud that half of our active members are female! - I intentionally did not make statistics in the outcomes, but noticed your name again and again, with your "own" work and helping others. Again, welcome! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:31, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

Hi Susan. Thanks for starting Haciendas of Yucatán. A bit of a technical issue, though, with how the content was placed in the next article. The original article, Hacienda henequenera, should have been "moved" to the new name, which would have preserved the editing history (see WP:MOVE for instructions). By "cutting" the content out of the original article and "pasting" it into the new article, the original article's editing history is missing (i.e. attribution to the original editor). I'll see if I can sort out the editing history technicality, and if it's beyond me, I'll ask for help from a more experienced admin. It's all part of the learning curve and all that so just know I'm sharing this with you in the friendliest way. --Rosiestep (talk) 03:51, 1 May 2015 (UTC)

@Rosiestep: the technical learning curve for Wikipedia is virtually overwhelming to me. It is incredibly daunting. I hope that I have not created something that cannot be easily fixed or undone. Truly my sincerest apologies.

On another note, I thought that I read somewhere that photographs from a government are free use. Is that correct? I cannot find the reference anywhere. I have been working on User:SusunW/Hacienda Chichén of which there is no entry on Spanish Wiki at all. I cannot find photos in commons, but I always seem to have hard time finding photos there. This site [2] is run by the Government of Yucatán and has photos if I can use them. Obviously none of the ones with people in them, but there is an archway and a couple of photos with the porticos and main house. SusunW (talk) 04:28, 1 May 2015 (UTC)

I read over WP:CUTPASTE but decided not to try it out on this article and requested assistance from Materialscientist who's been helpful with the heavy lifting in the past.

I know US Government images are fair use but I don't know if that applies to other governments... I'd venture that it doesn't. The best places to ask questions, though I'm biased as I was a founding member, is the WP:Teahouse, which is staffed by knowledgeable hosts 24/7! --Rosiestep (talk) 04:41, 1 May 2015 (UTC)

It depends on the government! I start with WP:PD, which says that "In the U.S., any work published before January 1, 1923 anywhere in the world is in the public domain." Then I go to Wikipedia:Non-U.S. copyrights which lists the general outline. (note: death of the author is called post mortem auctoris or "pma"). Governments really vary over whether their works are released into the public domain or not - for example, works by the US Government (i.e. government employee on government time) are PD, but seldom are any state government images PD. On wiki, I am a HUGE fan of "fair use" - when it is OK. For example, I just got FA on that Bazy Tankersley article with TWO fair use images. (See the images for what I did to get them allowed): Usually has to be an image that cannot be replaced by a free use image - person deceased, structure no longer exists of has been changed significantly, etc... Montanabw^(talk) 22:48, 1 May 2015 (UTC)

@Montanabw: and @Rosiestep: I asked at the teahouse, but they just said check with the Mexican government. I do use fair use, A LOT, if it is for a person, but this was for a hacienda and I have a feeling with some 80 of these articles to be written, I will need photos for quite a few of them. I have written enough articles for Mexico that I know most of the photos must be fair use because Mexico's copyright is 100 years. *sigh* I found this little tool Free Image Search Tool that gave me some usable images for the article, as it apparently finds free use images. SusunW (talk) 18:01, 2 May 2015 (UTC)

And one more birthday present... Drmies waved her magic wand (or bicycle repair kit, dunno) and synced up the article histories for the hacienda articles! Woohoo! So I'm going to move most of the hacienda stuff from my talkpage to Haciendas of Yucatán. --Rosiestep (talk) 01:43, 2 May 2015 (UTC)

• My pleasure, my dear Ms. Rosiestep. Anytime. Drmies (talk) 02:19, 2 May 2015 (UTC)

Yay! Thank you @Drmies:! We would do very little without our technical-god(dess)-in-the-sky. And @Rosiestep: I found a whole article on the preservation zones of Mérida. Originally there were over 1,200 haciendas. Thank goodness they are not all significant. SusunW (talk) 14:06, 2 May 2015 (UTC)

Searching Flickr for "creative Commons - free to use commercially,free to modify - can be a good place for the haciendas that exist today and allow tourists - a lot of people put up their vacation photos - not all with the right permissions for us, but Japanese tourists are particularly good about doing free use uploads, for some reason. The main hacienda article needs work too. Montanabw^(talk) 02:39, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

Today's giggle for you~

https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/User:Ritchie333/How_newbies_see_templates

It is exactly like that. Ask a question on here and you get "27 8×10 color glossy pictures with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one" ... LOL (The reference is to Woody Guthrie.) SusunW (talk) 12:37, 5 May 2015 (UTC)

Actually, it was Arlo! (And I heard him perform it live - admittedly in the 1990s...I'm not THAT cool!) LOL! Montanabw^(talk) 00:06, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

Well, at least you got the reference and yes, I always do that, I dunno why, mental block. I know the son did the song, but I always reverse the names. Normally I would do a word association, but in this case, nothing works. My brother-in-law's dad was also from Okemah and also named Woody, but I still cannot remember he is the dad. Mayhaps Arlo would change his name? LOL But it really does make me think of that every time I ask ask a techy question. SusunW (talk) 01:34, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

PONY!

Pony!
Congratulations! For your assistance in reviewing Bazy Tankersley at FAC, you have received a pony! Ponies are cute, intelligent, cuddly, friendly (most of the time, though with notable exceptions), promote good will, encourage patience, and enjoy carrots. Treat your pony with respect and he will be your faithful friend! Montanabw^(talk) 19:41, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

To send a pony or a treat to other wonderful and responsible editors, click here.

@Montanabw: Thank you! I needed a smile. I didn't contribute a lot, but am glad you got your featured article passed. Seems to me that is a daunting task. All the minutia that others saw would be overwhelming to me. As much as I'd like to see a couple of the articles I have worked on go to Good Article, not even remotely aspiring to FA, I don't know that I have the fortitude for the level of scrutiny involved. Mayhaps my forte is simply to add articles and clean up those that I can. SusunW (talk) 17:59, 25 April 2015 (UTC)

It takes a special skill set (and rhino hide) to run the gauntlet! I did several GA-class articles early on, usually with the help of 1-2 people, so its definitely something you can work toward, even now! (I did equine nutrition mostly on my own but Arabian horse and Horses in warfare were team efforts) The first couple were a little rough because I didn't have any mentors, but even so, it didn't take too long to get the hang of it and got as comfortable with flying as solo as one ever flies on WP (though I still collaborated a ton on some!). But I didn't take lead on any FAs for several years - I think Thoroughbred was the first one I helped with in a big way (but I wasn't lead editor, there were about six of us working on that one), then I did a bunch of stuff for Appaloosa and Yogo sapphire - both of which were particularly fun because different people had different areas of expertise and we had some wonderful collaborative efforts. I think the first FA I truly can claim as an 85% solo effort (I really think no WP article is ever 100% anyone's, though one can certainly be the "lead editor") was Oxbow (horse), and even there had some fantastic peer reviewers and such. Montanabw^(talk) 23:35, 25 April 2015 (UTC)

FWIW, if you can get stuff to DYK, you can get stuff to GA too. The minutae is looked at carefully in part because that's actually the easiest thing to review! My advice for GA/FA is really pretty straightforward:

1. Know going in that GAN and FAC attract people who are very meticulous but it isn't personal.
2. Cite everything up the wazoo and try to cite as much as possible to sources that can be verified online (Hathi trust and Google books are particularly helpful here)
3. Be aware of the sources that raise ref flags for reliability issues (WP:RS)
4. Make sure all images are free-use and have proper licensing
5. Use consistent punctuation, citation format and such throughout
6. Keep tone as neutral as possible
7. The line between GA and FA is really the comprehensiveness criteria. A FA is, for all purposes, "peer-reviewed" with similar pitfalls.
8. Be ready to explain your reasoning for things you don't want to change, but be ready to change them anyway.
9. Once in a while you may get a troll reviewer, then you need to just withdraw and resubmit later

If you want to take something to GA, ping me and I'll help walk you through it! Montanabw^(talk) 23:35, 25 April 2015 (UTC)

@Montanabw: I'd love to get the Feminism in Mexico there, but 1) I think it is too gargantuan a project especially without help to assess what I may have omitted and 2) I think it is too complex to start with such a big piece. I have also been toying with Anita Brenner. But, that being said, it needs to wait until mid-May. I'm giving myself a treat for my birthday and taking a holiday the first part of May. SusunW (talk) 01:08, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

@SusunW and Montanabw: Its definitely easier to start with GAs and to do concrete, limited and closed topics (ones that can be researched through searching one term, rather than needing to know the implications of the scholars). I would definitely recommend GA: I think its the most constructive content review process in the Wikipedia community: you usually get some good feedback, the requirements aren't to rough, and the time commitment to respond to a reveiw is fairly limited (whereas FA is a bit absurd). I would strongly recommend doing it, Sadads (talk) 22:50, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

Two thoughts

Awesome work on all the Haciendas! A tip: its really important to make sure that your articles don't become WP:Orphaned articles with very few or just one or two links to the articles. This means that you are less likely to get readers who accidently discover the topic (one of the beauties of Wikipedia per https://xkcd.com/214/). I noticed that for some of them, you were adding links to the town or village where the building is at: this is a first good step. However, you may also want to think creatively about linking them together, whether through creating WP:Navboxs or by adding links to lists. I also really like Edward Bett's Find Link Tool for finding opportunities to link to articles (documentation is at User:Edward/Find_link)

@Sadads: It's a bit slow going on the haciendas because I am having to create the municipality pages and look up sources. The Spanish wiki really does not appear to hold to the same citation standards, thus I am having to resource most of the data. What I did on the two pages that I created yesterday for the Municipalities is that I put the haciendas in those "townships" on the page. Hopefully as I complete them, that will then give them a link to the village/pueblo, a link to the township, a link to the main hacienda page and a link to the Yucatan list. Some of them will eventually link to Lauburu and some to a page on the Count of Miraflores if I, or someone else, gets around to writing it. A lot of these were owned if not built by culturally significant people, who might end up having an article themselves. ;) SusunW (talk) 00:05, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

Each and every Wikipedia has its own culture :P Its really rather striking, especially when you move from community to community. German, for instance, is like Night and Day with English: they don't require footnoting, just full citations at the end of the article, like in traditional encyclopedias; they operate on more of a "trusted editor" framework, where once you prove your established reputation, you get a lot more leeway on how you represent topics in an article.

Do you have a project subpage that other people can help you check off the list of to-dos? I would love to help in some way, but don't know where to start: with the famous people or towns or something of that nature. A project list where everyone who is helping could check off work and add potential notable topics, would be awesome: you seem to have found connections with some of the most prolific article creators in the community, and giving a place for everyone to work from would definitely allow some of us to contribute more :)

" I find that I like adding links to articles when I am tired: its a good repetitive task to feel productively contributing. I also, like using the template Template:Navbox to wrangle together clusters of articles that have related topics (books by an author, for me mostly: see examples at User:Sadads#Templates_I_have_started. Sadads (talk) 01:06, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

On the Municipalities, there is Municipalities of Yucatán If you just use either Abalá or Acanceh as a template, it goes pretty fast. Yucatán GOB Municipalities Almost all the data is in the link to the municipalities and is completely uncited on the Spanish Wiki, so I am just filling in the data and then linking the Spanish page in. On the Haciendas, there is a sort of project page on the talk for Talk:Haciendas of Yucatán. I try to remember to put my notes there, but sometimes I am asking questions on someone else's page. SusunW (talk) 01:20, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

Sounds good, watchlisting: I will keep an eye out for personalities (which I am better at writing). Also, I am really good at researching articles about books, if there is one that you find particularly notable. Sadads (talk) 12:55, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

@Sadads: Well, I'm coming up with a whole list of characters, two architects, a count and those folks that own the largest ranch in Mexico. LOL. I prefer doing people too. Much more interesting to me. As for books, where did I find that reference, guy who wrote a dictionary? Finnish-Spanish, I think. Was it the first? IDK, but the reference fascinated me. SusunW (talk) 13:58, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

Found the reference too. His name was Eino Parkkulainen see Patricia Ocampo if you are interested. SusunW (talk) 13:59, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

If you are still interested in Wikipedia Library Sources, you would more than qualify (we are in the process of working with partners to make sure that the requirement for access is 6 months and 500 edits, which you more than qualify for now). Also, since you have been doing such a great job, and showed good sense of Wikipedia contribution, etc and background in academic source use, that I thought you might be a good candidate for becoming a coordinator for one of the sources. We would love to have you sign up at Wikipedia:The_Wikipedia_Library/Coordinators/Signup.

Anyway, keep up the amazing work! Sadads (talk) 23:19, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

On the library lists, yes, I am still interested. Had a need for project Muse yesterday and thought I should sign up, but haven't gotten around to it yet. Not sure what being a coordinator entails, but if it requires being responsible for something, other than me, I probably will pass. I spent way too many years supervising and totally love the freedom of not being required to worry about anything other than my own stuff. SusunW (talk) 00:05, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

We have plenty of WP:MUSE and WP:JSTOR accounts, so feel free to grab them (also WP:MIT or WP:HeinOnline may be of use). I am working on getting access to some Latin American newspaper databases as well, which I will make sure to notify you about. As for volunteer coordinators: there is no responsibility about other peoples activities: its just a matter of screening if people meet the requirements for a particular partnership and communicating their information to the publisher so that they can create accounts. It also requires being on hand (and notifying the paid team, when a Wikipedian makes a comment about the article that seems). Its at most a couple hours a week, when a partnership first starts, but drops down to 15-30 minutes a week after that. Sadads (talk) 01:06, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

@Sadads: I have officially applied to Project Muse not the Sports page link above. LOL Would love access to Latin American newspaper databases. They seem to be hard to find and links go dead quickly. I am trying to remind myself to paste as many as possible into Wayback. I think that with my current schedule, I am leery of making any more commitments. That may change in the fall, but right now, I am "hip deep in alligators" (well maybe they are just iguanas). SusunW (talk) 01:54, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

Sounds great: and LOL on the sports page, I am going to put a for template there, to make sure that if I do it again, it will be less off :PSadads (talk) 12:55, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

Help with a map?

I am working on a piece about the Cuxtal Ecological Reserve. It contains 7 haciendas and the pueblos they are in 2 police commissary stations, 12 minor ruins and 6 cenotes. I haven't been able to find a map of the whole thing. But, I plotted the route on Google maps. Issue is, I don't know how to make that into a photo. And all the points aren't showing. They should be in order starting at the

1. Cuxtal Ecological Reserve on Calle 161 between Calle 50 ad Calle 50C
2. Hacienda Santa Cruz Palomeque
3. Dzununcán, Yucatán
4. Molas, Yucatán
5. Hacienda Dzoyaxché
6. Hacienda San Ignacio Tesip, within Tesip, Yucatán
7. Hacienda Xmatkuil
8. Hacienda San Pedro Chimay
9. Hacienda Haunxectaman, within Uxec Taman [3]
10. Hacienda San Antonio Tahdzibichén

If it can be properly plotted and tagged, can it be made into a map to use on Wikipedia, or do I have to find one? Anyone? [4] SusunW (talk) 23:16, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

Talk page stalkers to the rescue: we can't do Google Maps pictures because of the license, you could do it on Open Streetmap, but the better option would be the Graphics lab maps workshop. Typically requests get done within a few days to a week, if there is a basemap already available on Wikimedia Commons. You can also try the commons workshop, Sadads (talk) 23:23, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

@Sadads: I knew I could count on someone to reply. I have no clue what open streetmap is. So, I will try the Graphics Lab. SusunW (talk) 23:42, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

@Sadads: Thanks! fingers crossed that they can help. I looked for a possible base map on commons but only find a Mexico map and a Yucatan map, though there is a Yucatan map with Merida highlighted. Don't really need the whole state, or even the peninsula, but the good news is that I found photos for all of the haciendas in the reserve. Woot! SusunW (talk) 00:56, 9 May 2015 (UTC)

DYK for Kavindya Thennakoon

 — Crisco 1492 (talk) 02:54, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Fanny Schiller, Mexican actress.jpg

⚠

Thanks for uploading File:Fanny Schiller, Mexican actress.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. --B-bot (talk) 02:21, 14 May 2015 (UTC)

Mónica Villa ‎

You did such a good expansion job Susun that I will I'll add a new section on Argentine actresses/actors once you're done with Mexico and include Villa as one you've already tackled. But the rest will be existing stubs needing expansion on the Golden Age stars which have been stubs since I created them in 2007 or so. Women like Libertad Lamarque and Amelia Bence were among the most famous Latin women of their times and both have FA/GA articles on Spanish wiki. You seem to work best in this way rather than stub building like myself. I could do a Yucatan haciendas missing stub one too if you're interested for some variation, but don't want to overwork you now ;-).♦ Dr. Blofeld 06:49, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

Thanks Dr. Blofeld. I think I am really bad at stubbing woman. Too OCD about it. They have been lacking coverage for so long in so many areas that just putting a wee bit is never enough. At least with Villa, there were a multitude of sources. She was pretty easy once I gutted and just started from scratch. I was frustrated that I could find no more than I did on Iturbide. No reference to the mysterious "accident" where she broke her spine nor her paintings, which occupied her time for the last decade of her life and for which she sold to pay into the Actors Home. Weird. SusunW (talk) 14:16, 17 May 2015 (UTC)