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July 2024

Inconsistent link-appearance behavior

Hey SMcCandlish, I'm fixing {{Xtn}}'s appearance in dark mode, and I'm not sure I understand the hidden comment left there. Does {{Xtn/sandbox}} work? Snowmanonahoe (talk · contribs · typos) 17:52, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

@Snowmanonahoe: Well, the HTML comment seems to indicate that without color: initial, various of these xt-family of templates do not have consistent link-coloring behavior. As for dark mode, I'm not sure which dark mode you mean. I don't see a "dark mode" option in the desktop version (in Vector Legacy, which is what I use). Regardless, this CSS stuff would probably be better moved to a TemplateStyles page at this point. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 02:17, 8 July 2024 (UTC)

See mw:Reading/Web/Accessibility for reading/Updates/2024-04 for more information on dark mode. It's not on Vector legacy. As for the hidden comment, the part I don't understand is what "consistent link-coloring behavior" means. Snowmanonahoe (talk · contribs · typos) 03:13, 8 July 2024 (UTC)

Not sure what's unclear about it. It means links will not be colored consistently. At this distant a remove, I'm not certain under what conditions that problem arose (i.e. whether it was consistently between templates in that group, or consistently from context to context using the same template). But it did arise, and thus the fix was implemented.

I would think the thing to do would be to have color: initial applied by default, and override it selectively for particular conditions in which whatever custom result you want to apply under those particular conditions has been well-tested.

I'm highly skeptical that a specific color such as color: black should ever be set, since it incorrectly presupposes that the conditions of the surrounding block will be known at all times and will be consistent from one context to another, which is not correct (though when it is wrong will probably not be very often). While we can be certain that general running text in an article is going to look a particular way, we have no way to predict what a particular templated condition is going to look like (various templates colorize blocks of text as to background, text color, or both). And these xt-type templates aren't for article text anyway, but generally for use in internal documentation.

When initial is assigned to a non-inherited property, like display, it defaults to the CSS spec's default. When initial is assigned to an inherited property like color, it inherits the value most recently defined for that context in the stylesheet stack (if there is one, otherwise it gets the CSS-spec default or perhaps the browser default, if they differ, and depending on the browser). There must have been a specific reason that both unset and inherit were not getting the job done properly in this case, but I wouldn't recall what the specifics were after so long. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 13:12, 8 July 2024 (UTC)

Help:Searching

Hi, I asked about this in the talk page, but no one answered - seeing as you're the one who wrote the original clarification of All: vs all: could you please give that talk section a read? I'd have requested an edit to the page, but I'd rather someone else confirm first. – 2804:F14:809B:301:18CD:9D72:3518:7DDA (talk) 19:21, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

@2804:F14:809B:301:18CD:9D72:3518:7DDA: Answered at Help talk:Searching#Help:Searching#All:. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 02:27, 8 July 2024 (UTC)

Answered your answer. – 2804:F1...18:7DDA (talk) 02:43, 8 July 2024 (UTC)

Books & Bytes – Issue 63

The Wikipedia Library: Books & Bytes
Issue 63, May – June 2024

One new partner
1Lib1Ref
Spotlight: References check

Read the full newsletter

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery on behalf of The Wikipedia Library team --12:16, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

Some stroopwafels for you!

"Dutch sense": yes, I'm Dutch. Compliments for the effort! Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 16:39, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

But what syrup should I use? :-) — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 17:27, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

July thanks

Thank you for improving article quality in July! - Today's story is about a photographer who took iconic pictures, especially View from Williamsburg, Brooklyn, on Manhattan, 9/11, yesterday's was a great mezzo, and on Thursday we watched a sublime ballerina. If that's not enough my talk offers chamber music from two amazing concerts. -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:48, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

Template:Redirect-for

Resolved

Is it okay if I create {{redirect-for}} as a redirect to {{redirect}}?

I tried that name based on the pattern of {{redirect-distinguish}} and {{redirect-distinguish-for}}. I was surprised that it wasn't correct and it took me a while to realize that the template I was looking for was named simply {{redirect}}.

I'm asking because it looks like you were involved in deleting a previous page at that name, and I'm not familiar with the context in which you made that decision. Jruderman (talk) 13:00, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

@Jruderman: I answered this earlier (several days ago) but for some reason the reply didn't save. Anyway, I can't see a problem with {{redirect-for}} redirecting to {{redirect}}. However, also create a {{redirect for}} version, since the hyphenation in the original is actually ungrammatical, and we've been steadily moving away from template names with unnecessary hyphens in them, for several years now. That is, it's much more likely for someone to take a blind guess at "redirect for" than "readirect-for", the latter of which doesn't actually make sense in English. If you go to the store for cookies you don't "go-to the store-for cookies". — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 18:06, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

Done and done. {{redirect for}} and {{redirect-for}}. Jruderman (talk) 20:45, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

Bueno. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 05:00, 27 July 2024 (UTC)

Closure at CrowdStruck

Done

Once we think we're ready, are you willing to analyze the discussion and perform the closure?

I think you'd be great: you have a background in IT, you know your way around policy-based and non-policy-based arguments, you have a sense for what's good procedure, you have the page-mover right that lets you move articles without breaking their talk-page archives, and you haven't commented yet.

It's been a bit less than 7 days, but we've had lots of participation and I'd really like Wikipedia to have a good title for this current event. Jruderman (talk) 07:10, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

In theory; just a matter of whether I'm around at the right time, I guess. RMs usually do run for 7 days, though with the structure of this one being unusual, a little longer wouldn't hurt. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 07:41, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

Update: Commentary is still coming in, within the current day (as of this posting). Will try to remember to look again tomorrow. It's been over the requisite 7 days since the RM was opened but obviously less than that with regard to the "Motion to conclude" subthread, so better to let it run for a while. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 18:00, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for keeping an eye on this. I agree that it isn't quite time. Jruderman (talk) 19:51, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

We might be ready now, finally, after two weeks. Thanks in part to you and @Soni: for pushing us to reset a week ago. Jruderman (talk) 21:35, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

Okay, I will start poring over it. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 22:50, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

Closed, and with considerable analysis. There's clearly not a "this is the name we should move to" consensus yet, but enough questions involved do have a consensus that the list of possibilities can be sharply narrowed for round 3. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 02:18, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

You're a true consensus shepherd. Please join the "Believing True Things (on Wikipedia)" Discord server. You've earned your WikiStar. Jruderman (talk) 04:58, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, but I'll have to pass. I have no patience for live/interruptive e-media. I've tried that stuff since all the way back in the IRC and ICQ days, and it just drives me nuts, so I don't use Discord or anything like it, unless I have to for some client-related business reason, and even that's going to be curtailed. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 11:54, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

For the third round, would it be acceptable to propose a rename to "2024 CrowdStrike-related Windows system outages", or should we stick with open-ended? I think that one has widespread support but it's only been on the table for one or two days. What do you see as the top candidates or top open questions requiring consensus? Jruderman (talk) 12:41, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

I wouldn't do a one-option RM in this case again, unless and until source research has been done that establishes some particular phrase as the most common. Frankly, that kind of tedious trawling through sources is what needs to happen first and foremost, to see whether such a most-common phrase has emerged. If it has not, then my general sense is that options along the lines "2024 Crowdstrike IT outages" or "2024 Crowdstrike system outages" are most likely to gain consensus. Options like "2024 Crowdstrike IT system outages" are somewhat redundant. "2024 Crowdstrike-[something] IT outages" were seen as long-winded and were often contentious (especially "-triggered" or "-caused", less so "-related", but it was objected to as wishywashy or too vague to be very meaningful). And options that include "Windows", "Microsoft", or "Azure", or a more specific date, did not have much support and in several cases some direct opposition. But if it came to a scenario where still no common name can be determined, then a list that includes most such options would be hard to fault, and would mostly prevent the problem of people injecting their own variants yet again and confusing matters too much to assess a clear consensus. Just list and number (or letter) all the plausible ones and see which emerges with the most support and most sensible reasoning in support of it. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 07:33, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

This is a good comment, want to add it to the main discussion as an Involved editor? Jruderman (talk) 14:59, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

I've already added a pointer to it at the article talk page, and I'm not an "Involved" editor; that's kind of the point. I'm an uninvolved closer who's made some particular recommendations for moving forward in a way that's likely to attain a consensus instead of a round 4, round 5, etc. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 02:35, 10 August 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject Anthropology/Oral tradition taskforce

Done

– It's launched, I signed up for it, and I've started providing some bibliographical references. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 22:52, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

Hi, I see you're a member of WP:Anthropology, would you be interested in joining a sub project on oral tradition? Kowal2701 (talk) 13:57, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

A taskforce/workgroup about that would be a good idea probably. It's not a subfield in which I do a whole lot of reading, but I have some interest in it particularly with regard to Gaelic and broader Celtic folklore, as well as modern Internet memetics as a folkloric subject. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 17:56, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, personally I'm most interested in African traditional oral history, I'd recommend Jan Vansina's Oral tradition as history [1] Kowal2701 (talk) 18:02, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

I have that one in my e-book pile, though haven't gotten around to it yet. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 18:10, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

It might make sense to merge the bibliography and ‘sources for people interested but unfamiliar’ sections, although I really like the way you’re formatting it Kowal2701 (talk) 08:33, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

@Kowal2701: Yep, already working on it. I didn't notice the sectional redundancy until just after that edit. I'm merging them, and fleshing out the citations with {{cite book}}, etc., so they are easily re-usable in articles. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 08:49, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

Sounds good Kowal2701 (talk) 09:24, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

Done. A bit tedious, but it may prove helpful, especially given the number of workgroup participants with interest in the areas covered by those bibliography entries (esp. Africa, but I saw someone specifically mention Homeric, too). — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 12:12, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

yeah I've messaged loads of people and a few said they're interested but not knowledgeable enough about it, and it'll be good for newcomers to wikipedia when they browse wikiprojects for the first time Kowal2701 (talk) 12:38, 9 August 2024 (UTC)