User talk:Nirmos

Welcome!

Hello, Nirmos, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

• The five pillars of Wikipedia
• Tutorial
• How to edit a page and How to develop articles
• How to create your first article (using the Article Wizard if you wish)
• Manual of Style

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your messages on discussion pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place {{helpme}} before the question. Again, welcome! Wizard191 (talk) 00:35, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Organophosphate Pesticides

While you are correct in that Ethion, Azinphos-methyl, Diazinon and other compounds are not, in a strict chemical sense, organophosphates, they are nonetheless classified as organophosphate pesticides by the EPA, WHO, agricultural scientists, etc. See, for example, [1] or [2]. So while they are not technically organophosphate compounds, are they still organophosphate pesticides, and belong in Category:Organophosphate insecticides. Yilloslime ^T_C 18:09, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Ok, thank you for letting me know, I will not remove the Category:Organophosphate insecticides on any articles. Do you suggest creating sub-categories to Category:Organophosphate insecticides so we could specify whether the compound is a phosphonothioate/phosphorothioate/phosphorodithioate insecticide? Once again, thank you for your constructive feedback. Nirmos (talk) 21:47, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

I think it's fine to put the articles in question into both categories. For example, diazinon is an "organophosphate pesticide" but it's also an example of a phosphorodithioate compound. So while I reverted your removal of Category:Organophosphate insecticides from these articles, I also retained Category:Phosphorodithioates for them. I think this is a good way to handle this situation. It might be worth putting a note on top of the page for Category:Organophosphate insecticides, that says something to the effect that this category is for those pesticides generally referred to as organophosphates, but that some members of the category not are true organophosphates in the strict chemical sense.Yilloslime ^T_C 23:56, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

FWIW, there was recently some similar confusion with Category:Organochloride insecticides. See User_talk:حسن_علي_البط#Hi. I think the issue is that many of the names of the standard pesticide classes (organophosphates, organochlorines, n-methyl carbamates, etc) have chemical sounding names, but the classification system itself is only partially based on chemical structure. Yilloslime ^T_C 00:01, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

I think your idea about putting a note on the Category:Organophosphate insecticides page is good. However, we still need to decide what this category is to include. Phosphorothioates and phosphorodithioates follow the same formula as phosphates, just that one or two oxygen atoms are replaced by one or two sulfur atoms, respectively. Phosphonothioates, however, do not follow this general formula, but these too have been labeled 'organophosphate insecticides' and/or 'organophosphates' here on Wikipedia. See [3], for instance. Hence, we need to decide whether to include phosphonothioates in Category:Organophosphate insecticides or not.Nirmos (talk) 00:41, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

WIth regard to [4], VX isn't a pesticide, so it definitely doesn't belong in Category:Organophosphate insecticides. And it probably doesn't belong in Category:Organophosphates, since it seems that that category is reserved for compounds that are true organophosphates in the strict chemical sense. (But Category:Organophosphate insecticides is itself as subcategory of Category:Organophosphates, which is confusing. I've got no opinion about what to do about that.) As for what should go into Category:Organophosphate insecticides, I think it should only be insecticides commonly referred to a "organophosphate [or organophosphorous] insecticides," in reputable, authoritative sources like, for example, those EPA and IRAC documents I cited above. Doing a chemical category search on [5] generates a pretty comprehensive list that includes obsolete pesticides not included in the EPA/IRAC documents. Yilloslime ^T_C 01:06, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Category:Azanes

I suggest that you move this article to 'Category:Inorganic amines'.

• Azanes are almost always termed amines.
• "Inorganic" reflects the nature of the articles in the category.

--Plasmic Physics (talk) 00:21, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

Ok, sure, I will make the same changes on Swedish Wikipedia as well for coherence. Thank you for your constructive feedback! Nirmos (talk) 00:25, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

CSD is not automatically for foreign language articles

Hello. I noticed that you tagged Jonathan Segerholm for CSD as "cross-wiki spam not in English". Please note that this applies only to articles that really exist anywhere on foreign language wikipedia servers (CSD A2, {{db-a2}}). Because in this case it turned out that there is not corresponding article on the Swedish WP. And to apply such a tag you should be sure that the article was copied from somewhere else. Otherwise, please use {{notenglish}} and list the article at WP:PNT for translation. If the article is then still not translated after two weeks it will be proposed for deletion, but again, foreign language entries are not an automatic criterion for speedy deletion. Regards, De728631 (talk) 19:51, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

”Because in this case it turned out that there is not corresponding article on the Swedish WP” is not true, as you can see here. Nirmos (talk) 07:55, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

Ok sorry, but when I looked it up, the article there had been deleted and I didn't see the deletion log. Anyhow, next time please post a link to the external article or the deletion logs so as to avoid such misunderstandings. De728631 (talk) 00:27, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

Of course, it's just that I'm new as an administrator (as you can see on my user page). I still have things to learn. Nirmos (talk) 03:13, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

Born of Hope at sv.wiki

On another note, I came across your link to the new Swedish wiki version of Born of Hope. While reading that article on sv.wiki I noticed that the author wrote in the "Produktion" section that it cost 17k pounds to make the trailer. That's not true though, Madison and her crew got donations of £17k by posting their trailer online (cf. "An extra £17,000 was generated..."). My Swedish is just good enough for reading but I fail at writing text, so maybe you could fix that fact over there? And apart from that, the Swedish text looks very much like it was translated from the English version. I don't know how attribution is done at the Swedish wiki but to maintain the licenses, the source version should be credited somehow. Cheers, och god Jul! De728631 (talk) 00:27, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

Amazing you spotted that. I've corrected it.

I don't know whether the article was translated from another language version or not, but seeing as I used the English version as a source when I corrected the misinformation on svWP, it should have this template. I've fixed this as well.

Merry Christmas! Nirmos (talk) 03:13, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

Link removed by mistake

It seems you are confused to distinguish the difference of spam and non-spam. Why do you think each and every external link is spam? The link you removed from Hans Orberg page is the link to the official website of Hans Orberg himself. Please don't remove it again as this is not a spam nor a self-promotion link. Nimasdj 08:51, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

Looks like a mistake, check the article's history and you'll see. On talk pages, please write new posts at the bottom of the page and sign your posts with four tildes. Nirmos (talk) 12:48, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

User page change

On your userpage, I have changed the grammar in two sentences somewhat. --98.221.179.18 (talk) 22:50, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

Ah, thank you! English is not my first language. Nirmos (talk) 22:55, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

Phenol or alcohol?

Hi! Why are estradiol and alfatradiol not phenols? Phenols says that they "are a class of chemical compounds consisting of a hydroxyl group (-OH) bonded directly to an aromatic hydrocarbon group", which is what I've learned at university, too. Estradiol and alfatradiol meet that definition if I'm not much mistaken. Could you clarify that? Thanks, ἀνυπόδητος (talk) 07:26, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure the carbon skeleton to which the hydroxyl group is attached has to be that of benzene for a compound to be called a phenol, otherwise there wouldn't be things such as naphthols, anthrols etc. Estradiol and alfatradiol are derivatives of estrane, so they would be estranols. Nirmos (talk) 09:05, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

Well, estradiols even, because of the two hydroxyl groups. I think I'll make a category for those. Nirmos (talk) 09:09, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

Okay, the aromatic part of estradiol is a benzene, with some aliphatic rest that happens to form some additional rings. Furthermore, the Category:Naphthols is a subcategory of Category:Phenols, which would support my opinion that naphthols, anthrols etc. are special kinds of phenols. As far as I know, the term "phenol" (as opposed to "alcohol") is primarily used because OH attached to an aromatic ring has quite different chemical properties (higher acidity etc.), and for that purpose it doesn't make much difference how large the attached ring system is.

I'd suggest putting Category:Estradiols in Category:Phenols and Category:Alcohols. Please tell me if you disagree. --ἀνυπόδητος (talk) 09:34, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

Well, that's not what I've been taught, but it doesn't matter much, I'm not very active on enWP anymore. Do as you please :)

Nirmos (talk) 09:56, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

Anypodetos looks correct in assessment of the "phenol" functional-group analysis here. DMacks (talk) 11:11, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

Estradiol is definitely both an aliphatic alcohol and a phenol. EdChem (talk) 12:57, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

Categories for discussion nomination of Category:Estranes

Category:Estranes, which you created, has been nominated for deletion, merging, or renaming. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. --ἀνυπόδητος (talk) 13:46, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

Categories for discussion nomination of Category:Estradiols

Category:Estradiols, which you created, has been nominated for deletion, merging, or renaming. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. --ἀνυπόδητος (talk) 13:46, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

Hope you don't mind. If you do, please object at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2011 January 27. Cheers, ἀνυπόδητος (talk) 13:46, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

What's wrong with small categories? You're gonna delete, say, Category:Thiophosphoryl compounds as well? Nirmos (talk) 15:22, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

No, I wouldn't delete Category:Thiophosphoryl compounds because I don't know enough about anorganic chemistry to estimate how many notable compounds would fit there. I'm not sure about Category:Estranes either, but I'm pretty certain that Category:Estradiols has no potential for expansion (see WP:SMALLCAT). Could you comment at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2011 January 27 to keep things in one place? Thanks --ἀνυπόδητος (talk) 17:10, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

The CFD aside, what happened to the categories for estradiol and alfatradiol? Both are diols, so why remove that one? Also, all estrogens are steroids, so the steroid category in estradiol is redundant. Nirmos (talk) 21:32, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

Sorry for removing the diol category, that was a mistake. I've re-added it. Estrogen is a pharmacological, not a chemical term – an example of a non-steroidal estrogen is diethylstilbestrol. --ἀνυπόδητος (talk) 14:35, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

Ok, thanks! But then the estrogen article is wrong. In the first sentence it says they ”are a group of steroid compounds”, and in the first sentence in the fourth paragraph it says ”Like all steroid hormones”. Nirmos (talk) 16:24, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

Good you've spotted that. I hope it's correct now. --ἀνυπόδητος (talk) 17:14, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

AWB skips redirects

I made a list using Source: Category and chose "Folkungaätten" as the source. Then I clicked on "Normal settings" under the Options tab and entered [[Kategori:Folkungaätten]] under "Find" and [[Kategori:Bjälboätten]] under "Replace with". When I pressed "Start", AWB skipped the following pages that are redirects: sv:Cecilia Knutsdotter (Bjälboätten), sv:Ingeborg Bengtsdotter (Folkungaätten), sv:Katarina Bengtsdotter (Bjälboätten) and sv:Katarina Folkesdotter (Folkungaätten). The option "Page is redirect" under the Skip tab was not ticked. Nirmos (talk) 01:10, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

Nirmos you have to disactivate "Follow redirects" in the "Options" menu. -- Magioladitis (talk) 09:18, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

I had no idea there was such an option, thank you very much, Magioladitis. Nirmos (talk) 09:25, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

This does beg the question, though: Why is this option enabled by default? I mean, redirects exist to make sure that when a user searches for something in a normal browser, the user can easily find the correct page, usually to read it. But with AWB you want to edit pages that match your search. Why would most people want this feature enabled by default? Nirmos (talk) 10:30, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

Nirmos when we created this option (many years ago), most people wanted to edit pages with actual content and AWB provided very few on redirect fixes back then. Some of the options should have changed (sometimes even renamed) but we are afraid this would break ties with older versions and cause compatibility problems. I have switched the option off in my settings. I advice that you do the same. -- Magioladitis (talk) 12:02, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!

Hi,
You appear to be eligible to vote in the current Arbitration Committee election. The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to enact binding solutions for disputes between editors, primarily related to serious behavioural issues that the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the ability to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate, you are welcome to review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. For the Election committee, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 14:07, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!

Hi,
You appear to be eligible to vote in the current Arbitration Committee election. The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to enact binding solutions for disputes between editors, primarily related to serious behavioural issues that the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the ability to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate, you are welcome to review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. For the Election committee, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 14:10, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

ArbCom Elections 2016: Voting now open!

Hello, Nirmos. Voting in the 2016 Arbitration Committee elections is open from Monday, 00:00, 21 November through Sunday, 23:59, 4 December to all unblocked users who have registered an account before Wednesday, 00:00, 28 October 2016 and have made at least 150 mainspace edits before Sunday, 00:00, 1 November 2016.

The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

If you wish to participate in the 2016 election, please review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 22:08, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

Gadget

Hi Nirmos,

What's the best approach to use in campaigning for that gadget, do you think? And which admins would be best to approach about that? St. claires fire (talk) 17:38, 17 April 2017 (UTC)

St. claires fire: I'm not familiar with the different talk pages and processes at enwiki, but maybe Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)? User:PrimeHunter is extremely competent and could easily make the gadget available to users here. (Oh, and to PrimeHunter, this discussion is about Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)#What's the best tool these days for autosaving draft articles (without saving them to Wikipedia)?) Nirmos (talk) 17:51, 17 April 2017 (UTC)

Yeah, my thought is that if we open it up to discussion by the general public, there will be a bunch of ill-informed commentary from people lacking understanding of how gadgets work. St. claires fire (talk) 18:17, 17 April 2017 (UTC)

St. claires fire: If you make it clear that the gadget would not be default, i.e. that users have to enable it themselves in their preferences, that might help. Nirmos (talk) 18:48, 17 April 2017 (UTC)

@St. claires fire: I know very little JavaScript and don't work on gadgets but you should be able to use the Swedish gadget here with this in your common JavaScript:

mw.loader.load('//sv.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Gadget-AutoSave.js&action=raw&ctype=text/javascript');
mw.loader.load('//sv.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Gadget-AutoSave.css&action=raw&ctype=text/css','text/css');

If you want to campaign for gadget status then I suggest starting with making it a user script at Wikipedia:User scripts/List with source here at enwiki. Wikipedia:Gadget#Proposals currently says "New gadgets should be proposed at the technical Village Pump." The existing discussion is already there. PrimeHunter (talk) 19:54, 17 April 2017 (UTC)

PrimeHunter: That would not work because you are bypassing the dependencies on MediaWiki:Gadgets-definition. Nirmos (talk) 20:14, 17 April 2017 (UTC)

OK. I only previewed the code in my common.js and saw it added a "Saved wikitext" link which opened a box with three buttons when I clicked it. I stopped there and don't know how the script works. I know little JavaScript as mentioned. Could it get what it needs by adding something like this first:

mw.loader.load( ['mediawiki.util', 'oojs-ui'] );

PrimeHunter (talk) 20:36, 17 April 2017 (UTC)

PrimeHunter: No. mw.loader.load is asynchronous, so the dependencies would not necessarily be loaded by the time the script is loaded. If you really want to use this as a user script – which I cannot recommend – you would have to lazy-load the dependencies and then execute all other code in a callback with mw.loader.using. Nirmos (talk) 20:41, 17 April 2017 (UTC)

Hanging pages

Hi, hope you don't mind my pasting this here, it seems inappropriate to paste something that long at the Pump, and you can just delete it here:

VM95:164 This page is using the deprecated ResourceLoader module "jquery.ui.widget". (anonymous) @ VM95:164 VM95:204 This page is using the deprecated ResourceLoader module "jquery.ui.position". (anonymous) @ VM95:204 2load.php?debug=false&lang=en&modules=jquery%2Cmediawiki|mediawiki.legacy.wikibits&only=scripts&skin…:153 Use of "wgServer" is deprecated. Use mw.config instead. get @ load.php?debug=false&lang=en&modules=jquery%2Cmediawiki|mediawiki.legacy.wikibits&only=scripts&skin…:153 2load.php?debug=false&lang=en&modules=jquery%2Cmediawiki|mediawiki.legacy.wikibits&only=scripts&skin…:153 Use of "wgArticlePath" is deprecated. Use mw.config instead. get @ load.php?debug=false&lang=en&modules=jquery%2Cmediawiki|mediawiki.legacy.wikibits&only=scripts&skin…:153 2load.php?debug=false&lang=en&modules=jquery%2Cmediawiki|mediawiki.legacy.wikibits&only=scripts&skin…:153 Use of "wgScriptPath" is deprecated. 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Use mw.config instead. get @ /w/load.php?debug=false&lang=en&modules=jquery%2Cmediawiki%7Cmediawiki.legacy.wikibits&only=scripts&skin=vector&version=0r0nkm9:153 2/w/load.php?debug=false&lang=en&modules=jquery%2Cmediawiki%7Cmediawiki.legacy.wikibits&only=scripts&skin=vector&version=0r0nkm9:153 Use of "wgArticlePath" is deprecated. Use mw.config instead. get @ /w/load.php?debug=false&lang=en&modules=jquery%2Cmediawiki%7Cmediawiki.legacy.wikibits&only=scripts&skin=vector&version=0r0nkm9:153 2/w/load.php?debug=false&lang=en&modules=jquery%2Cmediawiki%7Cmediawiki.legacy.wikibits&only=scripts&skin=vector&version=0r0nkm9:153 Use of "wgScript" is deprecated. Use mw.config instead. get @ /w/load.php?debug=false&lang=en&modules=jquery%2Cmediawiki%7Cmediawiki.legacy.wikibits&only=scripts&skin=vector&version=0r0nkm9:153 2/w/load.php?debug=false&lang=en&modules=jquery%2Cmediawiki%7Cmediawiki.legacy.wikibits&only=scripts&skin=vector&version=0r0nkm9:153 Use of "wgScriptPath" is deprecated. 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Use mw.config instead. get @ /w/load.php?debug=false&lang=en&modules=jquery%2Cmediawiki%7Cmediawiki.legacy.wikibits&only=scripts&skin=vector&version=0r0nkm9:153 2/w/load.php?debug=false&lang=en&modules=jquery%2Cmediawiki%7Cmediawiki.legacy.wikibits&only=scripts&skin=vector&version=0r0nkm9:153 Use of "wgNamespaceIds" is deprecated. Use mw.config instead. get @ /w/load.php?debug=false&lang=en&modules=jquery%2Cmediawiki%7Cmediawiki.legacy.wikibits&only=scripts&skin=vector&version=0r0nkm9:153 2/w/load.php?debug=false&lang=en&modules=jquery%2Cmediawiki%7Cmediawiki.legacy.wikibits&only=scripts&skin=vector&version=0r0nkm9:153 Use of "wgFormattedNamespaces" is deprecated. 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This of course means nothing to me. Thanks Doug Weller talk 21:13, 5 May 2017 (UTC)

Doug Weller: At a first glace, I cannot see any errors, only warnings, but four eyes are better than two, so we can ping TheDJ too.

Of course, these warnings will sooner or later become errors, and eliminating the warnings will make an error stand out like a sore thumb. I would happily help with that, given the right to do so, which is why I have nominated myself to become a global interface editor at m:Steward requests/Global permissions#Global editinterface for Nirmos. Nirmos (talk) 21:20, 5 May 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for looking at this. Hopefully the problem won't happen often. Doug Weller talk 18:23, 6 May 2017 (UTC)

Sadly still a problem, both Windows 20 and my IPad. Doug Weller talk 16:41, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

Doug Weller: I can't do anything without an error message. If you can't give me an error message, can you tell me:

1. In what namespace the error occurs?
2. During what action (view/history/edit/submit) this happens?
3. What gadgets you have checked?

That said, though, I'm not really familiar with the gadgets on enwiki, so I'm not the best pick to debug this, and I'm busy helping other projects update their site JavaScript, so I can't promise that I can spend a lot of time debugging this issue. Nirmos (talk) 17:24, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

Doug Weller: I have found two things in m:User:Doug Weller/global.js that could be the culprit. First, you are using importScriptURI. You should use mw.loader.load. Second, you are loading MediaWiki:Gadget-confirmationRollback-mobile.js. When you do that, you are bypassing its dependencies that are declared on MediaWiki:Gadgets-definition. You should wrap that load call like this:

mw.loader.using( 'mediawiki.util', function() {
	mw.loader.load('https://wiki.riteme.site/w/index.php?action=raw&ctype=text/javascript&title=MediaWiki:Gadget-confirmationRollback-mobile.js');
} );

Nirmos (talk) 18:01, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

Thanks. I've decided just to blank my global.js page, I don't need that at the moment. I'll try to get error messages next time I have a hangup and determine when it takes place, I can see that I'm not being very helpful. Doug Weller talk 19:02, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

This might help - the "failed to load" had the red circle with an x, the next 4 had yellow warning triangles. I seem to get the first two of those, .widget and .position, virtually all of the time, and the other two on some pages, eg my watchlist.:

Failed to load resource: net::ERR_CONTENT_LENGTH_MISMATCH

(unknown) This page is using the deprecated ResourceLoader module "jquery.ui.widget". (anonymous)

(unknown) This page is using the deprecated ResourceLoader module "jquery.ui.position". (anonymous)

(unknown) This page is using the deprecated ResourceLoader module "jquery.tipsy". mw.loader.implement.css

(unknown) This page is using the deprecated ResourceLoader module "jquery.ui.core". ::Please use "mediawiki.ui.button" or "oojs-ui" instead.

While writing this I disabled a few gadgets, I think that may have gotten rid of the red warning. Doug Weller talk 11:14, 20 May 2017 (UTC)

Still hanging. Craig Keener only partially loaded, with the message "Craig_S._Keener Failed to load resource: net::ERR_CONTENT_LENGTH_MISMATCH" 10:29, 21 May 2017 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Doug Weller (talk • contribs)

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