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Equus vrs Equidae

Hi Montana, If you are a visual person this may help. Think of Equidae as a bush with MANY branches, at the tip of each is a species. The branch that is Equus is at the very top of the bush. Now while some species are connected directly from the roots of the bush (Hyracotherium (Eohippus)) there ae many other branches which ahve not direct connection to Equus ( Subfamily Anchitheriinae) and many off shoots from the Equus branch that didn't get very far (North American Equids, Tribe Hipparionini). Thus Equus=Equidae is a very broad generalization which does not do the family service. --Kevmin (talk) 22:22, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Sort of gotcha. If it's a tree (as in Wikipedia Tree of Life) I can "get" Equidae as a family, and Equus as a genus, in terms of big branch and littler branch. And I get that some branches dead-ended (like some horse ancestors in the Americas pre-Ice Age) My question is how this all shakes out in terms of the other mammal articles -- for example dogs, wolves, etc...Canidae versus Canine versus whatever earlier ancestors. I just know that there are redirects from Equid and Equine and Equidae and Equus and all sorts of speciation arguments, and all I really want over there is peace in the family! Can you add some inroductory comments to the Equidae article explaining the basics with links to general taxonomy articles so the non-scientists among us understand this? (If for no other reason than to avoid the constant rewriting of various articles from saying Equus to Equine to Equid to Horse! ARRGH!) LOL! Montanabw^(talk) 22:38, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

In regards to peace, it is a very fickle thing in taxonomy, one new find can uproot entire trees and many of the branches are hard to see fully, which leads to different ideas and much discussion. Much of the confusion with Equids is that everyone id familiar with its sole living genus and in many cases don't even know that there is an entire rest of the family which is dead. Combine this with an entire generation learning that hose evolution was a strait shot from "Eohippus" to Equus when there were actually many dead ends involved, and Hyracotherium (syn."Eohippus") looks in part to belong to a different, more primitive family. In general wikipedia family level article will vary depending on how extensive the family is Sciuridae has a large number of subfamilies and so the content is general to all the members with a taxo. tree (a constant in all family articles). On the opposite end Ailuridae another single genus family, covers mainly the Red panda only as its only living member, but retains the broader taxonomy section and fossil taxa.--Kevmin (talk) 23:19, 19 January 2009

(UTC)

Why delete the new soft drink information?

Although you claim that it's some sort of conspiracy, it comes from a host of reliable sources which I referenced. It's not some sort of conspiracy...there are 222 news articles on it. Please revert your edits. [1] PatShearing (talk) 19:09, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Um, a description of a cow urine drink in the article on cattle, IMHO, constitutes WP:FRINGE, not necessarily a "conspiracy" but certainly not mainstream use of cattle products. However, as this is wiki, you may discuss the issue further on the article's talk page and see if anyone else cares. I am not going to put any further energy into the matter. Montanabw^(talk) 00:41, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Banker (horse?)

I'm somewhat curious as to your thoughts on an FA attempt. I have one under fire as we speak Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Osteochondritis dissecans and if Banker is ready; perhaps they could draw strength from each others experience. I find the article refreshing and interesting; however, that of course is not the criteria for FA! I've also noticed a bit of tension; no doubt there is a history around that exchange which precedes this article. My students have been instructed to stay on the side lines for such encounters as to not get caught in the crossfire! I think it best that those more experienced with the diplomacy on Wikipedia engage in consensus building when it escalates beyond their pay grade. I think this may be such a case? If you sense that this may lead to something more complex; then perhaps an Fa attempt should be postponed. Again, thanks for the long history of support for Yohmom efforts. You have been an exceptional role model.--JimmyButler (talk) 03:32, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Answer on your talk page. Montanabw^(talk) 04:40, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Thanks

Thank you for your support throughout this project. The Banker Horse entry reflects all that I had hope to accomplish with my students when entering into this project. If I had doubts and concerns over student accountability and the infinite number of variables beyond my control - they have been silenced by this example. Congratulations on the FA and the spirit of collaboration it represents! --JimmyButler (talk) 14:09, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

From me too! Knowing that I had your support and could always seek your advice was reassuring and kept me motivated throughout the entire project. Thanks for all of your insights and guidance; I was most fortunate to have such an excellent mentor and couldn't have asked for one better. --Yohmom (talk) 23:44, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

Equine anecdote - just out of interest

A friend of mine runs a livery stables. The other day at morning turnout Jade, a 10-year-old thoroughbred mare, was found lying in her stall. They got her on her feet and walked her, but she wouldn't eat and while usually feisty, was very dispirited. After a while they called the stable vet who did a rectal exam, couldn't find anything wrong and gave her antibiotics. To cut a long story short Jade went down again, was taken to the local vet hospital where they scanned her and couldn't see anything wrong intestinally. She got worse and in the end they opened her up to find a congenital diaphragmatic hernia with a trapped intestine. An eight-foot length of ileum had to be resected; the horse was 4 hours under anaesthetic. Jade's recovering now, but it'll be a long haul!

I'm not in any way asking for advice – this isn't my mare, it's not my friend's mare either and the owner is satisfied with diagnosis and treatment (the owner agrees that the stable vet could hardly be expected to diagnose it in a paddock when the full resources of a vet hospital couldn't do so until the horse was opened up!) I just wondered out of interest if you'd ever come across a case of undiagnosed diaphragmatic hernia in a horse that old. If you hadn't, you have now! Regards, Tonywalton ^Talk 22:48, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

I hadn't and that is a fascinating story. It is amazing how much veterinary medicine has advanced, just in my lifetime (OK, so that's somewhere over 40 years, so I guess I HOPE it's advanced!) Used to be if you had to open up a horse that dramatically, there was no hope at all. Amazing that she is recovering. Good luck to Jade. I hope she continues to do well! Montanabw^(talk) 22:52, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

I'll continue to bore you rigid with stories of her recovery (hopefully) ☺ Tonywalton ^Talk 23:04, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Welcome to Equine E.R. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 22:53, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Ugh. Friend of ours lost a very nice Gazal Al Shaqab colt this summer to a combo of hernia and complications from premature birth. He made it back from the surgery for the hernia, but because he was so premie, his bones just were too fragile to handle much and he fractured his hip playing in the pasture. His hernia was pretty severe, though, and was obvious from birth. (5 weeks premie) Luckily, our first mare to foal this year is past the scary premature dates (April 28 ....) but the other (May 16) is still in the scary range... Ealdgyth - Talk 23:02, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Fingers crossed. Tonywalton ^Talk 23:24, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Links

Is there a link that goes to a specific paragraph without going to the whole page? Like a link to cowboy hat / history instead of cowboy hat total page? 72.234.11.157 (talk) 06:35, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

If there is a subheading, you can do a link to the article, add the "#" symbol" and the name of the subheading. For example: [[Article name#subheading title]] However, this only works as long as no one changes the name of the subheading, so best to do just with stable articles. Montanabw^(talk) 00:54, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

If a link goes to a section and the section is renamed, the link will go instead to the top of the article, as if you had not used the "#".

One way of getting around possible renaming of sections is to use a named anchor – this also allows linking to text in the body of a para, rather than to the para heading. You put this code at the target: {{Anchor[s]|Target name}}. You can also use multiple targets (in your example, perhaps: {{Anchors|History|Origin}}). It's also worth putting a hidden comment (<!-- Comment -->) after the anchor code to explain it and so help avoid it being edited out by accident. An anchor will thus survive the renaming of a section, but it will not work if the article is renamed – the link would go to the old article name, where it would (probably) find a redirect and thence would land at the top of the new article.

Don't forget that you can link to sections within an article, using the "#" symbol alone – you would link to this para by typing [[#Links]], and you can of course pipe it as I did just then on "this para" ([[#Links|this para]]).

Also see Help:Link#Section linking (anchors) and WP:Piping. Richard New Forest (talk) 14:07, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

COOL! I didn't know that stuff. Even we older hands can learn new tricks! Thanks, Richard. Montanabw^(talk) 23:14, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Another talkpage stalker outs itself One excessively cool trick is the so-called Pipe Trick. This saves you from typing [[User:Example|Example]] or [[Rodeo (song)|Rodeo]] all the time; just use [[User:Example|]] or [[Rodeo (song)|]] and the wiki engine will do the clever thing, replacing the empty pipe in |]] with what you'd been typing yourself all these years. Cheers, Tonywalton ^Talk 23:44, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

I feel loved. Thanks. Montanabw^(talk) 23:50, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

We all stalk Montanabw. Thanks too! I never knew about the anchor thing, either. Gwinva (talk) 00:32, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

LOL to you all, and beware anyone who launches another drawer of sockpuppets at me! Montanabw^(talk) 01:30, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Notice how you can never find sockpuppets in pairs when you need them? Only the unmatched ones.--Curtis Clark (talk) 05:09, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Re: Equine anecdote - just out of interest

I said I'd keep boring you with this! Jade the mare is now out of hospital (remember? The four-hour op to remove a loop of intestine from an undiagnosed diaphragmatic hernia). She's been in there about three weeks, so somebody's insurance company is hurting ☺! She's back in her stable on stable rest now. She'll take a good long while to get back into condition, but the vets have done a top job, it seems. This isn't just a helpful local vet, by the way; the city of York is home to one of the UK's top racecourses, and Minster Vet treat some of the UK's more valuable animals, plus the county where I live is known for racehorse training, so they're good at horses round here. Regards, Tonywalton ^Talk 23:12, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Good to hear! Say, if you want to babysit some articles, see the Au/NZ spats in the racehorse articles noted above. I don't really have a dog in those spats, but it appears that multiple grownups -- or at least, multiple non-Antipodean editors--ought to be supervising that playground. (Found fun new word while lurking, too!). Montanabw^(talk) 16:11, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

de:Zerebelläre Abiotrophie

It sounds similar, but there is nothing concerning vitamines in the article.

VETAMIN D is a acronym to a system for sorting diseases in seven aetiological groups. It is used mainly in the neurology for animals. The akronym was formed in thinking of veterinair und vitamine D. The diseases are sortet in seven groups. The Groups are diseases concerning the blood vessels, Inflammations, Physical traumas, Anomalies, metabolic diseases, Idiopathic diseases, neoplasys, and degenerations.

--Kersti Nebelsiek (talk) 09:55, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Hm. Nothing comparable in English, I don't suppose? Montanabw^(talk) 23:44, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Note to self

http://www.horsejunction.co.za/sahorseman/articles/viewThread?topicID=6045 Article on all South African horse breeds, may be useful for other articles. Same site where Mhera found all the stuff n the Namib Desert Horse. (Note blood type studies pretty dated). Montanabw^(talk) 05:42, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Flowers

Yes, you're right, it includes seed heads as well as flower heads (we don't grow lucerne alfafa here though). However, last time I looked grass was still a flowering plant... Ah, the trials of being a botanist. Richard New Forest (talk) 22:30, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

Ah, the details of botany. So when (or what) does timothy grass have a flower? I realize that pollen has to come from somewhere, but in its life cycle, I don't see what part "flowers?" Help me out here...so how do we differentiate between grasses and, say, daisies??? Montanabw^(talk) 04:35, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

The spike is the flower: you can even see the anthers hanging out when young. Think of a young maize corn head: the long green hairy bits are the stigmas, and the tufty polleny bit on the top is the anthers (in that grass, but hardly any others, the male and female flowers are borne separately). Each grain starts off as a tiny ovule, with a stigma leading to it. Once it's flowered, the grass flower head becomes a seed head, and the ovules develop into seeds. The difference between grasses and, say, daisies is only that grasses are in one family of flowering plant and daisies are in another. Grasses (as well as rushes, sedges and some others) happen to have flowers with tiny green or chaffy petals – mainly because they are wind pollinated. Trees have flowers too... There are some plants without flowers: the ferns, mosses, liverworts, algae and so on. Richard New Forest (talk) 18:27, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

That makes sense. Kind of. In the way that quantum physics makes sense. i.e. I think I get it, maybe. (LOL) In the context of the hay article, though, I'm leery of using the word "flowers" to describe good hay, as, at least where I'm at, non-grasses other than legumes are not desired in hay, and hence the colloquial use of the term could give the wrong impression ("flowers" as in daisies or whatever else, are generally "weeds" when it comes to hay...), so do you think we need to tweak anything in that article? (On a totally unrelated note, why on earth do people like to vandalize it as much as they do???) Montanabw^(talk) 03:05, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

I think the term "pasture flowers" is misleading, especially since it links to the article about the anatomical structure. Range managers call those plants forbs; technically, legumes are forbs, too, but perhaps "other pasture forbs" would do the trick.--Curtis Clark (talk) 03:41, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

Clearly, I am not a range manager nor a botanist. (LOL!) But if throwing around a lot of hay bales counts for anything, I'm in! (grin) The photo caption in the hay article that started all this says "plant heads" which someone changed to "flowers," and I changed it back...basically, ideal hay consists of grasses that have formed seed heads that aren't too mature & tough, and alfalfa that is pre-bloom. But I don't know what to call that state of being... (And of course, in the same field, grass and alfalfa mature at different rates, so there is always a trade-off) Other plants may also be in hay elsewhere, but I am familiar with the US types, and that's what we are after... Montanabw^(talk) 03:53, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

Here is a grass flower (wheat). Botanically, ideal grass hay is in flower or earliest fruit (well, actually, I'd not be happy with bermuda hay in that state; I think it should be just pre-flowering). Once you've connected the terminology with the stages you already know, it will make perfect sense. Maybe I can round up some photos.--Curtis Clark (talk) 05:32, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

Hmm. We don't grow Bermuda up here, I'm mostly familiar with the timothy/brome/orchard grass blends with some alfalfa thrown in for good measure. All cold-season grasses. As for harvest and the article contents, my concern in the article text is nutritional, when it has that magic combo of sufficient growth to be worth harvesting, but before nutritional value begins to drop off too much. The guys at the extension office all say young seed heads for grass and pre-bloom alfalfa for hay (though the local beekeepers like it to stay in the field until it blooms -- better honey production), but maybe that's the magic blend when both are in the same field?? Technically, I suppose we should harvest grass for maximum nutrition hay when it's tiny and young, but that is economically unfeasible. Hmm. Maybe we should trot this whole thread over to that article and see how it can be improved there. Montanabw^(talk) 05:40, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

Done. (Pre-bloom in alfalfa is no honey production, since the honey is made from the nectar of flowers.)--Curtis Clark (talk) 15:13, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

LOL! You're right! I was thinking they'd have to hit other flowers that didn't make for as wonderful a finished product! My bad wording! Montanabw^(talk) 04:14, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

de:Liste der Pferderassen

Hi Montanabw, thanks for your edit in de:Liste der Pferderassen. I only wanted to ask why you removed American Paint Pony [2] and Cayuse Indian Pony [3] from the list. I totally agree with the removal of Canadian Cutting Horse, I didn't notice that this is only a type of horse not a breed. --Klara (talk) 10:49, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

Glad I didn't mess that up too bad. I only had a year of German about 20 years ago! LOL! In the USA, some of these so-called "breeds" are just one person's thing and they have really zero basis for what they are doing, and this is clearly the case with the "Cayuse horse", which appears to be the cause of a single individual and he doesn't really have a lot of friends (and, if I may rant for a moment, they are supposedly descended from PERCHERONS, for god's sake??? These are just feral horses where someone turned out low-quality draft horses with Indian ponies to degrade the stock and make cheap farm horses to force Indian people to be farmers on the rez, it's the stuff everyone else wants to get rid of! Has zip to do with Indian people, in fact it's an insult to those who did breed good horses, and says more about the government's native assimilation policies of the time than anything else. OK, getting off soapbox now...).

On that note, the Oklahoma State U site is pretty notorious for printing verbatim the propaganda given them by a group, they make no independent studies. I classify them under the "better than nothing" category, though in some cases, they are about the ONLY source for some breeds... The International Museum of the Horse at Kentucky Horse Park seems to at least make an assessment that a "breed" isn't just a club formed by a breeder and three of his friends! LOL! There's some argument for the American Paint Pony, but if their "registry" was formed in 1972, well that's the year I started showing horses, and, unlike the Pony of the Americas, which has been around for a while, I have never heard of this other bunch, they don't seem to have breed shows, they don't seem to have much of a criteria for admission, they aren't recognized by the USEF (not that this encompasses all US breeds, but...) and in general, they seem to be a small group that is yet another of our "send us $25 dollars and a picture of your horse and we will send you a pretty certificate" crowd. Right up there with the (yes, we really DO have one of these) "Bay horse registry." (Yes, the color.). I personally have a minor peeve about what gets called a "breed" here in the US, but I try to be generous. So, there is certainly room to debate the matter, but this is why I did as I did...hope that makes sense, and sorry to jump on the soapbox. Montanabw^(talk) 04:09, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

Hi Montanabw, I revised the article "Liste der Pferderassen" about one year ago and removed all breeds (without article) where I didn't see notability. But I didn't check every breed with total accurateness and I thought Oklahoma State U site is a reliable source until now. Thanks for your information regarding the Cayuse horse. Don't worry, we (de.wp) also don't want just so-called breeds in the list. So I agree with all your removals now. By the way: I think it's no problem when you comment your edits in de.wp in English. What you wrote (Entfernen Sie nicht vorhandene Rassen) was unclear because this means: "Remove not existing breeds" (Imperative mood) and not "I removed not existing breeds" what you probably wanted to say. --Klara (talk) 22:03, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

LOL! It was only 20 years since I had that German class: "Ich lerne Deutsch im Universatat!" Montanabw^(talk) 01:36, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Imperial Triple Crown

Your majesty, it gives me great pleasure to bestow these Imperial triple crown jewels upon Montanabw for your thoroughbred contributions to articles equine in the areas of WP:DYK, WP:GA, and WP:FC. Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:20, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

Heh, well done, I would have loved to have buffed the legendary Skowronek to DYK (my grandmother did have a book on Marbach when I was a kid but I couldn't find it recently... :/) Casliber (talk · contribs) 10:39, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Thanks! You may also want to peek at Marbach stud then, and also Carl Raswan. Montanabw^(talk) 01:54, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Help with misbehaving horse cat name for Commons needed

I have a couple of great Flickr shots with free licences featuring a horse that attempts to drop his rider (and succeeds) with a "buck-stop-dodge" manoeuvre. Now, as there are also good pics already on Commons that feature horses rearing to drop annoying humans, and even some fence dodgers (as in jumping), I'm feeling the need for a subcategory under Horse behavior (and Riding), for "misbehaving" horses/steeds. What do you think would be a good neutral term for the cat, seeing that these horses are only misbehaving from a human POV? Pitke (talk) 22:03, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

I would continue to describe by behavior, not motive, as bucking could be due to disobedience, but also due to pain or fear. And photos do not always make it clear. If a term must be used, "disobedience" is what they use for horse show rules and I favor it. Montanabw^(talk) 23:47, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

In the jumping world if a horse dodges a fence we call it a "refusal" and it is not usually considered a fault of the horse - it's usually the fault of the rider. - Josette (talk) 00:58, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

True, but in the rule book it is still grouped as a "disobedience." Now the question if the horse should really be expected to put up with every idiot that tries to ride is an entirely different one! LOL! There is a theory well worth considering that there are only problem riders... Montanabw^(talk) 01:04, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

You just have to love those old school horses that can handle any rider - they always deserve extra treats ;) - Josette (talk) 01:19, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

Some days I wonder why any of them put up with us! Oh wait, we feed them... Montanabw^(talk) 01:35, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

Dog agility folks refer to "handler error"; statistically speaking, that's the reason for everything.--Curtis Clark (talk) 02:47, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

LOL! Thanks all you TPW's! And only too true all around! Montanabw^(talk) 02:50, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

Ok so I'm calling it "Disobeying horses" for purely the simplicity's sake — in most cases we cannot know if the thing's fed up with a messy riding style, in pain, having a random fit of temper or simply not understanding. That's kind of nice since we can use these pics to illustrate multiple issues :) We'll know where to find those pictures now. Thanks for help again. Pitke (talk) 08:53, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

"Disobeying" is not proper grammar, The term is "disobedient," particularly in the realm of animal training in general. Best to tweak that. Montanabw^(talk) 20:57, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

Eastern baltic/Russian harness terminology help needed (I feel like a regular here)

As seen here and here, the large arching part of the harness. What is it called in English? Or do you have any term for it at all? All I know that in Finnish it's most commonly luokki, but also, depending on the area, it has been called also luokka or vempele (vemmel, vempel, vembel; literally "arched piece"); in Swedish it's loka; in Russian literally "arch", Дуга (dura). I could translate the quite covering article in Finnish to describe the thing more, but I need the term I should use... Can you help me out with this? I'm currently calling it "the dura (Дуга) arch piece" in Troika (combined driving), but as the same part is used not only in Russia but in Finland and the norther parts of the Baltic as well... Pitke (talk) 11:51, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

Ah, regulars are fun! Sit down, have a cuppa coffee... But as to this question, I'm stumped. User:Richard New Forest is our resident harness expert, he's the one to ask. Drop him a note and tell him I sent you! I've heard "arch" but I don't know enough about exotic harness types to be sure (and Baltic harness is "exotic" to me...LOL!) Also check to see if it is defined or described at horse collar or horse harness. By the way, thanks for creating the Troika article, which I did a minor rename on... Montanabw^(talk) 02:47, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

Ok, I naturally checked those articles for the first thing, as well as a couple of "this" thick dictionaries. But thanks anyway, I'll be harassing Richard then :) Hafta also check family photos to see if I could still find the one where my gramps is plowing with his Finnhorse Timo. If memory serves it'd make a nice addition to Commons :) Pitke (talk) 10:05, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

Hey, you should have seen how bad I slaughtered my attempt to write one sentence with what I remembered from my German classes of 20 years ago! I just admire that you keep trying! When it comes to riding, I'm usually pretty sharp, but the harness stuff is definitely Richard's domain. Montanabw^(talk) 21:04, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

IMHO it really can't be compared as Finnish is a really small language no one in the whole wide world knows, and English, well, English is the language I use for about 50% of my free time simply because the Internet, period ;) Pitke (talk) 22:52, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

English is sort of obnoxious that way, isn't it? LOL! At least it isn't Mandarin! Still, we English speakers must confess to being notoriously monolingual (or unilingual, or whatever...)! Montanabw^(talk) 23:04, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

If there's one thing I like about monolingual English speaker is that they make so wonderful confused partners for literary role play gaming with a language barrier theme... And BTW... I'm currently studying Mandarin too XD The world will no more be a safe place! Pitke (talk) 23:17, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

LOL! Can I get some popcorn and watch the show when Pitke masters Mandarin!!!??? Montanabw^(talk) 01:40, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

If you happen to be interested of the piece, the translated article can be now found at Luokki (harness). Pitke (talk) 10:31, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

Sand roll

Sand rolls are very common on race courses of all sizes and all other establishments that have training facilities. They are usually near the hosing area and the horses are given a roll after work, followed by a hose down. THey vary from from loads of sand placed in a strategic location (not very useful) to very elaborate covered brick buildings.

Thanks for the support (again). I am just dipping my toe in the water here and really have no idea what I'm doing there.Cgoodwin (talk) 07:16, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

DYK for Australian rodeo

On December 2, 2009, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Australian rodeo, which you created or substantially expanded. You are welcome to check how many hits your article got while on the front page (here's how) and add it to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Materialscientist (talk) 03:52, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

Give all credit to Cgoodwin, I just was the page mover! Montanabw^(talk) 04:01, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

Clarify please. Article history says Bryan Derksen moved the article you expanded it and Cgoodwin made minor corrections. Materialscientist (talk) 04:14, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

You may have noted a minor kafuffel over when the article was "created," which appears to have been resolved, as the article is now a DYK. Here's the history: In 2005, user Bryan Derksen moved an earlier article over to the name "Australian Professional Rodeo Association." This title sat as an unused and unloved redirect to nothing directly related until Cg wrote a MAJOR section on Australian rodeo for the rodeo article within the last week or so, and as I am sort of the lead babysitter (others use stronger terms! LOL!) on the rodeo article, I felt that this new material was substantial enough to stand on its own, and so, with Cg's OK, I moved it to the abandoned title as a "new" article, leaving behind a summary in the rodeo piece. So, Cg created virtually ALL the actual content of the article, I just did the move and a little wordsmithing. In short, I don't want to take credit for the hard work of someone else! Montanabw^(talk) 04:22, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

Holy batman. I saw Australian Professional Rodeo Association, but would never guess to look at rodeo. Keep your credit. Materialscientist (talk) 04:33, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

Whatever you say. I still want CG to get lots of kudos, though, it's Cg's first DYK, as far as I know. And Cg did ALL the real work! (hint: peek here for proof).Montanabw^(talk) 04:36, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

Done. Cheers. Materialscientist (talk) 04:41, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

New article

Hi Montana. Just came across Leg disorders in horses, a new article, and wasn't sure what to do with it. Would you mind taking a look and seeing if you think this is necessary, or if there is a logical place to merge it to? Dana boomer (talk) 23:46, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Done. Thanks! Montanabw^(talk) 23:55, 9 December 2009 (UTC) That is, the merge tag, not the merge! LO! Montanabw^(talk) 00:04, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

A new one: Georgian Grande Horse. Breed or someone's pet project? I'll take care of the merge on the other one probably tomorrow - it's on my to-do list along with a few other wiki things. Dana boomer (talk) 00:26, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

Hm This one at least has some nice-looking animals. I also did a search on their claim of involvement with the USDF, and while I couldn't find a link to an "all breeds council," a search of the USDF site did bring up horses listed as "Georgian Grande" winning some things. FWIW. Their web site has way too many exclamation points in their rule book and apparently they can turn invisible and jump tall buildings in a single bound, but that's not inherently a disqualificaton! (LOL) I put some cleanup tags on the article for now. Looks like the creator had been sandboxing it since sometime last month, so at least they are trying to respect the process, which I like. I guess some of the iffy ones we've kept on wiki in the past are the Virginia highlander (which I actually started or expanded from a stub, I think) Spanish Jennet Horse and the Camarillo White Horse. Compared to them, this one might also pass. What I'd like to see is a sense of numbers of horses in the registry and how long this breeding has been going on. Less than a decade and less than a couple hundred horses, I say no. More, maybe. My thinking is that I like to see a "breed" survive its founding human creators, or at least be on its second generation of human owners even if the founder is still breeding, and past the 5th or 6th generation of horses (counting a "generation" as 3-4 years), registering offspring of others of the"breed," not relying exclusively on crossbreeding for new stock, and have owners/members that extend beyond the customers of one basic ranch. Something that's gone on long enough (say at least 20-25 years) to have gotten past the "just a glorified crossbred" stage. By that standard, the National Show Horse is a "breed" (though it annoys me that it is, personally) but the "Renai Horse" (which is a new so-called "breed" trying to be started by the same guy who pushed the National Show Horse 20 years ago) really is not (its also mostly one guy and his customers' thing, so another problem) Ditto that the Azteca probably is a breed, but the "Warlander" really is not yet more than a crossbred. Just my thoughts, FWIW. Your views?? Montanabw^(talk) 04:30, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

Western Horseman...

U of I's holdings of same. Let me know if you need something, I can acquire it. For that matter... here is their heading of periodicals. They also have the QHJ and probably some more esoteric stuff lurking. Ealdgyth - Talk 00:55, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

COOOOL! Basically, at this point, I was mostly trying to save the John Lyons (horse trainer) article from speedy deletion, but for future reference, I'd be very interested in any articles they have on hackamores, bosals, spade bit training and the vaquero stuff in general, particularly some of the weirder equipment that isn't much used today outside of a real limited geograpic area, mostly in and around the Great Basin. Montanabw^(talk) 01:21, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

Seasons Greetings and all that ...

		Happy Holidays
		Wishing you and yours a Happy Holiday Season, from the horse and bishop person. Ealdgyth - Talk 16:37, 24 December 2009 (UTC)