User talk:Middayexpress/Archive 40

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Archive 35

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Hello, Middayexpress. You have new messages at JamesBWatson's talk page.
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JamesBWatson (talk) 14:19, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

Ethiopian Airlines

Hello. May I ask why you removed the fact that the Somaliland region is internationally recognized as an autonomous region of Somalia from the Ethiopian airlines article? You do realize that the airline itself, like the international community as a whole, does not recognize any such country called "Somaliland" and only includes Somalia in its literature (e.g. here), right? In fact, it doesn't even mention Somaliland on its website [2]. So what gives? Is there a second Ethiopian Airlines website I should know about? Also, in your second revert [3], you completely removed the Frequent Flyer Program section that I had just added. What's the point of that too? Why not just revert the Somaliland section if that is all you object to? Why a wholesale revert? Regards, Middayexpress (talk) 20:30, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

Hi. Thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia. There is an article in Wikipedia for Somaliland where the readers can get all the information they need, including the ones you mention. Wikipedia is simply an encyclopedia, where neutral points of view should be stated. That said, it doesn't matter whether the airline or even Ethiopia recognises Somaliland or not, the only thing that matters is that it flew once to a destination within its territory. Moreover, it doesn't matter to which state (recognised or not even by the UN) Hargeisa is the capital of as to an article concerning any airline, not only Ethiopian. As already stated in the Airline Project guidelines, airline articles as well as pages related to their destinations should only reflect information with neutral points of view. Regarding ShebaMiles, the frequent flyer programme and its description is properly depicted within the codeshare agreements sub-section of the Destinations section, where it is also stated that the company has a codesahre agreement with Lufthansa, as with many other airlines. Scattering information related to the same stuff all through the article renders it disordered. Best wishes.--Jetstreamer (talk) 20:53, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for your response. Articles should indeed reflect a neutral point of view. However, removing clarification of the fact that the city of Hargeisa is internationally recognized as a part of Somalia is not neutral. It's actually the opposite of neutral since all of the other images on the Ethiopian Airlines article that show actual Ethiopian Airlines aircraft in various airports around the world all list country-level destinations (viz. United Arab Emirates, England, Ethiopia). They do not list regional-level destinations; only the Hargeisa picture does and that's the point. Unless one wants to deliberately give the impression that Somaliland is recognized as country of its own on par with the aforementioned actual nations, a clarifying note will have to be added indicating that the Somaliland region is actually internationally regarded as a region of Somalia. This is even more necessary considering the fact that Ethiopian Airlines itself doesn't even appear to acknowledge any such sub-national let alone national entity; it only recognizes Somalia in its literature, as shown above (please leave a response if any here so that the discussion is all in one place). Regards, Middayexpress (talk) 21:12, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

Do you think the last change I made to Ethiopian Airlines destinations solves the issue? Please let me know what you think. I added the flag of Somalia so as to appear with that of Somaliland, and also modified the caption of the last image. Please let me know what you think. Cheers.--Jetstreamer (talk) 21:26, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

That won't do because Somaliland is still listed in the country column alongside actual countries, including the Somalia which it is internationally regarded as an autonomous region of. It is also the only such disputed territory listed on the table and in such a way. That makes the presentation still far from neutral. And that's not even mentioning the main Ethiopian Airlines article, which still requires a clarificatory note, as explained above. Middayexpress (talk) 21:36, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

Kindly removed Somaliland from the caption of the image in the Ethiopian Airlines article. I think we're done with that. Which is your proposal concerning Ethiopian Airlines destinations? Simply removing a terminated destination is clearly not the solution.--Jetstreamer (talk) 21:47, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

That's one problem solved. For the Ethiopian Airlines destinations article, I recommend explaining via a footnote that Hargeisa is the "capital of Somaliland, a self-declared republic that is internationally recognized as an autonomous region of Somalia." The actual table should list Somalia, just like the Mogadishu entry does, because Hargeisa is internationally recognized as a city in Somalia and Somalia, in turn, is internationally recognized as an actual country (the column in question). Middayexpress (talk) 21:53, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

Good effort. That's both issues solved. Cheers, Middayexpress (talk) 22:20, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

Anytime.--Jetstreamer (talk) 22:26, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

Mo Farah

Why change it? Yes he was born in Somalia, but he's British. He's lived there most of his life, he was raised there and educated there. He's father was born and bred in Hounslow, a borough in London. He's the son of a brit.

Look at for example the former British athlete Linford Christie's page. He came here when he was 7, he was born in Jamaica. Does his page refer to him as a "Jamaican born brit"?

Surely the biography section is enough for people to know that he's Somali born? The guy considers himself to be British. Do you think he goes wrong saying "I'm a Somali born Brit"? No, he refers to himself as British and has never competed for any other national team. Fair enough if he changed teams, like the Kenyans and Ethiopians do for the arab countries, but it's not the case with mo farah.

I've noticed this when reading a variety of other ethnic groups. When it come to Somalis, there's a lot of emphasis put that they weren't born in Britain and its mentioned in the first line of their page. Whether its in sport or journalism. Yet when I look at people of Nigerian, Jamaican, Bangladeshi, Pakistani background, who weren't born here but arrived here when they were kids. They are refered to as either Brits or English. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.180.190.231 (talk) 08:29, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

Actually, I changed his nationality back to British. An anonymous IP with a similar range as your own changed his nationality in the infobox from British to Somalian ([1], [2]). The fact is, however, a person can't run for Britain, break the British and European records, and not be a UK citizen. That's not the way those meets work. By the same token, a person can't be a recent immigrant and from Somalia's dominant Somali ethnic group to boot and have that no longer be relevant, especially when that person has been known to wave various Somali flags after meets alongside the Union Jack (that's unless, of course, that person has actively given up his/her nationality, which certain people have been documented to have done). For example: "For Farah, who celebrated with a dual British-Somali flag, it brought the added honour of being the first British man ever to win a 10,000m title at European, World or Olympic level" [3]. The standard on Wikipedia is to reference a person's ethnicity and previous nationality if it's relevant to his/her notability, which is certainly the case here given the above (refer to WP:OPENPARA). That's basically why his nationality in the info-box reads "British" and the intro reads "Somali-born British". Regards, Middayexpress (talk) 19:53, 12 June 2011 (UTC)