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Lanyon (Madron), and other matters

TY for the Smiley (and - HNY). I don't recommend using the trick which I used unless you're an experienced disambiguator (I have the welts to show for it). I looked at Lanyon, and formed the opinion that everything on that DAB page was so closely connected (as of now - it could change) that splitting out a (surname) page might be more confusing than helpful to readers.

Did you get a nastygram from User:DPL bot? If you get another one, and aren't sure what is the best thing to do - slap a {{dn}} on your own post! and wait for the ravening point-scorers who infest WP:DPL to attack it.

I noticed that you lost a page about taxa named (described?) by Johann Leopold Theodor Friedrich Zincken. C18-C19 naturalists without Wiki articles are one of my target areas; I'm glad that that article exists; a better place for that sort of list might be species:Johann Leopold Theodor Friedrich Zincken. I've used WikiSpecies, but don't really know my way around it; they have a species:Village Pump at which you might wish to drink. Narky Blert (talk) 01:39, 3 January 2017 (UTC)

Not aware of receiving any nastygrams. The category pages are a sideline while I am adding to the Fauna of the Isles of Scilly and will eventually get around to expanding some moth stubs.

Books and Bytes - Issue 20

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Issue 20, November-December 2016
by Nikkimaria (talk · contribs), Ocaasi (talk · contribs), UY Scuti (talk · contribs), Samwalton9 (talk · contribs)

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London Welsh

Hi Jowaninpensans - I see that the London Welsh liquidation has caused a number of edits that have affected the consistency of the page. For instance, the attendances for London Welsh have all been removed from the Info box - I will have to add back which is a bit of pain. Do you think we need to have something in place to prevent this happening in future? I don't really want to get involved in policing the rugby union articles but we do need some kind of guidelines. BTW great victory for All Blacks last Saturday - good to have BJ Chapman back for the best performance of the season! (Jgjsmith006) 17:45, 25 January 2017 (UTC)

Ignore - now on Talk:2016–17 RFU Championship. Only just spotted it - will notify editor involved.
Its a shame Lancen couldn't beat Salisbury the week before – would have increased their chances of avoiding relegation. Was hoping to watch a Camborne/Redruth league derby next season, but you've ruined that. lol. Jowaninpensans (talk) 09:21, 26 January 2017 (UTC)
Unfortunately I think Camborne have ruined their chances due to issues off the pitch. The team we played last Saturday was completely different from that in October and I said that they would go straight up but they buggered themselves, first with the points deduction and then with the coach and chairman leaving (I think the chairman is back though). They might sneak the playoffs if they can rediscover some sort of form. Even though I'm a Launceston supporter I think a Redruth - Camborne derby would be massive in National League 2 South. That said I wouldn't count Redruth out for promotion either. (Jgjsmith006) 14:14, 26 January 2017 (UTC)

Jimmy Tucker

New page added for Cornish and Launceston legend, Jimmy Tucker. I am sure there are quite a few gaps in his career that I have not accounted for, so as always, feel free to include anything I have missed. Cheers. (Jgjsmith006) 10:55, 28 January 2017 (UTC)

Devon RFU Senior Cup

On a bit of a tear at the moment - have created Devon Senior Cup page. Again if you have any input it is appreciated. (Jgjsmith006) 13:16, 31 January 2017 (UTC)

CRFU Cornwall Clubs Cup

Do you know what is going on with the Clubs Cup this season - from the Cornwall RFU website it seems that they are reorganizing it into four competitions? Also seems a bit quiet on the Cornwall Cup front as well - the website is still only showing 2014-15 results. (Jgjsmith006) 10:27, 7 February 2017 (UTC)

Can't seen anything on Trelawny's Army either. Perhaps the new league system has done away with it. Or it will be held at the end of the season. Jowaninpensans (talk) 15:23, 8 February 2017 (UTC)
Cheers - will keep an eye on things. (Jgjsmith006) 17:09, 12 February 2017 (UTC)

Matthew Shepherd

Jowaninpensans - when you have the chance I have created a page for Matt Shepherd. I have a couple of queries regarding him, primarily with when (and if) he played for Perranporth as well as when he started with St Austell (I have put 2009-10). Also if you have any more information on the Cornish Rebels rugby league side, who Shepherd played for, such as any games I have missed then that would be appreciated. At the moment I am looking to create and update Cornish and Devon club pages - I have done St Austell RFC, Penryn RFC and Bude RFC recently so appreciate any info you can supply that I have missed. Enjoy the rest of the weekend. Jgjsmith006) 11:11, 19 February 2017 (UTC)

CRFU Cornwall Cup

While on the subject of the CRFU Cornwall Cup - did it have it's inaugural season in 1969 or was it earlier? The reason I ask is because of this article [1] which states that Penryn won a version of the Cornwall Cup in 1965. I am in the middle of creating an article on Penryn at the moment. BTW outstanding result on the weekend - seven tries!!! We may still beat the drop. Cheers. Jgjsmith006) 17:10, 12 February 2017 (UTC)

I wonder if the article really means the league tables that were pubished in the newspapers in the 1950s and 1960s. They use to publish merit tables of all the matches and an inter-club table. Penryn were the top team in Cornwall for much of the sixties. Thank you for doing the league one matches – I do long shifts every other weekend. Jowaninpensans (talk) 17:02, 13 February 2017 (UTC)
The article says that Penryn won the South-West Merit table, so not sure if there was a Cornwall Cup as well. Saw something regarding a Cornwall Cup in the 1880s as well so may have to email the Cornwall RFU to find out more - have contacted Penryn but no reply as of yet. No problem with doing the National League 1 page - if you haven't done it by midday Sunday I tend to update. Have a good week. Jgjsmith006) 22:19, 13 February 2017 (UTC)
There was a Cup in the 1890s, see Penzance RFC and a junior cup, see Newlyn RFC. The only SW Merit Table that I know of was before the leagues started which Camborne played in. Other teams were Bristol, Bath, Exeter and Plymouth. Falmouth also played in at least one season, can remember Falmouth playing at home to Bristol. Jowaninpensans (talk) 00:17, 14 February 2017 (UTC)
I may add the 1890s results to the Cornwall Cup pages - what do you think? Jgjsmith006) 11:08, 19 February 2017 (UTC)

Think that is a good idea. Jowaninpensans (talk) 11:14, 19 February 2017 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Notability (sports)

Had this pop up on several of the player pages I have created (Gary Kingdom being one such example) - Kieron Lewitt was considered ok. I presume this is based on the rugby union page stipulations that players need to have international or Premiership experience to be deemed notable. This could potentially affect a lot of the south-west rugby union pages. Do you think we need to re-evaluate the rugby union guidelines or just leave them be? To be honest I had this pop up in other Wikipedia subjects and it was so much hassle it put me off editing for a year - I just want to edit not spend all my time policing pages. (Jgjsmith006) 13:55, 23 February 2017 (UTC)

I feel the guidelines are too restrictive and it would be more constructive for editors to improve articles instead. Wikipedia is full of articles on songs and tv programmes that are not notable. Hundreds of Cornish articles are not notable, such as Boswyn. Perhaps the editor will move on and forget about it.Jowaninpensans (talk) 17:48, 24 February 2017 (UTC)

Hi Jowaninpensans - bit of a weird query with Penryn RFC. All the Cornish club pages I have created have appeared in Google Chrome search apart from Penryn RFC which doesn't appear even if you type Penryn RFC wikipedia. It is strange because the image I used for the ground is displayed on the Google search but not the wiki page. Ever heard of this happening? Cheers. (Jgjsmith006) 20:14, 28 February 2017 (UTC)

Alex Ducker

Hi Jowaninpensans - good day to you. I was wondering if you knew what Alex Ducker's dob was was as he was at the Pirates albeit very briefly (you may have a handbook from 2014 with this detail)? I know it was 1993 but not sure on day/month - will try clubs if you don't know. With regards to the rugby this weekend it seems that there is an important match for Pirates against Doncaster today (best of luck) with an outside shot at the top 4. We lost 17-18 yesterday thanks to a Brixham conversion in injury time - if only Honey had kicked his then we would have won but that's sport - Lydney lost as well so we still have a slight chance if we can beat them at theirs next Saturday. Enjoy the rest of the weekend Jgjsmith006 (talk) 12:04, 26 March 2017 (UTC)

Afraid I don't have any information. Still slight chance of avoiding relegation although a win yesterday would have helped.Jowaninpensans (talk) 22:53, 26 March 2017 (UTC)

Jersey Record Attendance

Not sure if the Rugby Paper is right on the London Irish attendance being the biggest. Jersey had 3,648 for a game against Rosslyn Park back in the 2011–12 National League 1 season. Maybe this is the record in the Championship for Jersey. Let me know what you think? Jgjsmith006 (talk) 22:24, 26 March 2017 (UTC)

Looks like the rugby paper got it wrong.Well spottedJowaninpensans (talk) 22:53, 26 March 2017 (UTC)

Books and Bytes - Issue 21

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Issue 21, January-March 2017
by Nikkimaria (talk · contribs), Ocaasi (talk · contribs), UY Scuti (talk · contribs), Samwalton9 (talk · contribs), Sadads (talk · contribs)

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Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 22:54, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

CRFU Cornwall Clubs Cup Plate competition

Hi Jowaninpensans - last time I spoke to you Launceston still had a chance to get out of relegation but they blew it at Lydney. At least we can compete for the Cornwall Cup next season (if they take it seriously). I had a question regarding the Cornwall Clubs Cup Plate competition. This is obviously for teams that have gone out at earlier stages of the Clubs Cup competition but do you know if this is a recent trophy or if in previous seasons teams played for it? I will update winners if you have the information. Thanks.Jgjsmith006 (talk) 17:22, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

This is the first I have read of these new competitions crfu gives details. Jowaninpensans (talk) 17:14, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
Cornwall RFU website is very poor this season - no mention of St Austell's (first ever) win in Cup. Will add Bowl results starting from this season when they appear. Cheers. Jgjsmith006 (talk) 15:34, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
Perhaps the Independent will have some details on Sunday. Jowaninpensans (talk) 17:33, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

National League 3 Regional Leagues Renamed

Hi Jowaninpensans - it seems that the RFU are renaming the National 3 leagues to London & SE Premier, South West Premier etc. Do you know how we can quickly change the page names to the new ones? I have cut and pasted new pages and deleted old ones but apparantly that's not how you do it. Regarding Independent unfortunately they have closed after 250+ years of publishing. Know any good local alternatives? Jgjsmith006 (talk) 13:29, 1 May 2017 (UTC)

use hashtagREDIRECT (substitute # for hashtag). Haven't seen any news on name changes but haven't read the rugbypaper yet. Independent is up and running again. Jowaninpensans (talk) 18:08, 1 May 2017 (UTC)
Wow - good news about Independent - I thought they'd had it. I got information on the league name changes from NCA (Rolling Maul) forum. Will wait until it's confirmed before any changes are made. Cheers. Jgjsmith006 (talk) 22:34, 1 May 2017 (UTC)

CRFU Cornwall Clubs Cup

Now that the Independent is back you wouldn't know the result for Redruth Albany v Perranporth in the Vase final? No result on Cornwall RFU website (which frankly is a pretty awful website for a county RFU) or Trelawny's Army. If not, maybe some news will filter down eventually. Jgjsmith006 (talk) 19:20, 2 May 2017 (UTC)

Got information - about 3 days delayed but there you go. County Championships start this weekend. Jgjsmith006 (talk) 19:46, 5 May 2017 (UTC)
Unable to help, been away for a few days. Hope to get to the home match, but that depends on my lovely employers. Jowaninpensans (talk) 14:55, 6 May 2017 (UTC)

Cornwall League 1#Promotion play-offs

Hi Jowaninpensans I have been updating promotion play-offs for all the leagues including history for Cornwall and Devon 1. I don't know if you did the original play-offs but I have changed page to reflect other's but I have used original material from this page as part of play-offs and hidden the rest so feel free to add your own input - hope this is ok. Thanks. Jgjsmith006 (talk) 16:12, 15 May 2017 (UTC)

No problem with what you have done. Will put the hidden matches into the season sections at some point. Think the references should be in the end column, possibly under notes. Can include the attendances there as well. Having a column for four attendances in seventeen matches seems over the top. Will also look less cluttered, especially when you look at article on a tablet. With regards to the honours list, I do not see the point of having a column for the league name; it is just repeating the same information all the time. Sponsorship can go into a separate section; the leagues were also sponsored by Courage. I think I've made a mistake by including the sponsors in the article names. We don't do it with the championship. Jowaninpensans (talk) 11:34, 16 May 2017 (UTC)

Books and Bytes - Issue 22

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Issue 22, April-May 2017

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Sent by MediaWiki message delivery on behalf of The Wikipedia Library team --MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 18:35, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

National League 3 South West renamed

Hi Jowaninpensans - long time no talk - hope all well. I have gone and renamed National League 3 South West to South West Premier which is now the name of the division (will do the other regional divisions). I thought I'd let you know if you were wondering where they had got to. I have tried to make sure all changes have been made but four eyes are better than two so if you spot anything let me know! Cheers. Jgjsmith006 (talk) 13:31, 16 July 2017 (UTC)

Made a start on updating for the new season – seems we are the only ones looking after the leagues. Jowaninpensans (talk) 16:41, 22 July 2017 (UTC)
I'm quite busy with work at the moment so won't be as prolific as usual for a couple of weeks. Most of the major divisions are ready but still loads of the regional to update - will try to get a look at Launceston's to look at realistic away games on the map - no Cornish teams but Okehampton are the local derby and Bideford and Bridwater & Albion are proper rugby clubs. Will have to sort out season ticket this month and get down to a couple of the home friendlies in August. Are Pirates your local team or do you go to Camborne/Redruth? Jgjsmith006 (talk) 18:45, 22 July 2017 (UTC)
Haven't seen much rugby over recent years as I have been working most weekends. Have reduced my hours and now only work one weekend in three, so will probably be watching the Pirates seconds as well as Camborne or Redruth. Jowaninpensans (talk) 18:50, 22 July 2017 (UTC)
I had hoped that Redruth might push on this coming season but having lost some players (Matavesi) and with a new coach (Nonu) I think they will struggle to do as well as they have the last couple of seasons, which is a shame. As far as Camborne are concerned, after a brilliant start to last season they really fell off after Christmas so they may have to be content with mid-table. However, I am usually wrong with predictions so hopefully this will be the case again this season. If Launceston avoid a third relegation in a row and do ok in the cup I will be happy! Jgjsmith006 (talk) 09:37, 24 July 2017 (UTC)

London 3 Eastern Counties / London 3 Essex

Not the south-west but thought I'd give you a a heads up with regards to more RFU changes for this season. Seems that London 3 North East has been split and renamed to London 3 Eastern Counties and London 3 Essex. With what the Independent on Sunday was saying we will probably need to keep an eye on the Cornish leagues as they will surely be changed once more. Jgjsmith006 (talk) 23:26, 29 July 2017 (UTC)

"Was Helston ever a port?" lecture

Dear Jowan, at 2 pm this Thursday, 10th August, there is a practice presentation of the above title at Helston museum - just below the guildhall - to which you are welcome to attend. At the end of it, any constructive criticism is welcomed. Obviously, when you have read this you are welcome to delete it. The result of the presentation proved that I as taking up the geomorphologist's theories was wrong, with sufficient evidence to eliminate the null hypothesis 'H0' that Helston's Loe Bar was thrown up way before the 13th century!

Also, I can thank you for removing the detail about "Tywarlo" simply because it is unattested whether the "lo" syllable meant 'pool' or 'inlet'. Andrew H. Gray 12:09, 14 August 2017 (UTC)Andrew (talk) Regarding: "nonsence" I do not understand what you mean - have you carried out research? Are you aware that not I but recently someone locally discovered part of the port barrier wall at the rear of Zacharias Bridge at the foot of Porthleven hill in Helston at the far side of the Cober to the left of Coronation lake - the stones of mediaeval form commence beneath the Cober with a shear drop above this wall top so it had to be built before the Cober was there! Andrew H. Gray 12:11, 14 August 2017 (UTC)talk (talk)—Preceding undated comment added 16:11, 8 August 2017 (UTC)

Books and Bytes - Issue 23

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Sent by MediaWiki message delivery on behalf of The Wikipedia Library team --MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 02:04, 23 August 2017 (UTC)

South West England Map

Jowaninpensans. Hi - hope you are well as always. I am trying to find a map of south-west England to use for our rugby pages but the nearest available covers the south of England. I can't work out how to modify existing maps to show this information so thought you might??? It would be great if we could get one down as it would make it a lot easier to put teams on without having three different county maps in some cases. Will be at Polson tomorrow for Camborne friendly - first home game of season so will be interesting to see how both teams do. Cheers.Jgjsmith006 (talk) 18:48, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

I can only find one covering the south of England – File:England south location map.svg on wikimedia commons. Which is probably the one you have seen. Perhaps someone on wikimedia commons help desk may be able to create one. Jowaninpensans (talk) 18:20, 21 August 2017 (UTC)
Thanks Jowaninpensans - will try Wikipedia Commons. Launceston had a good win last weekend - 43-14 over Wadebridge Camels. New signing Dan Pearce from Bude was excellent. We now have a proper kicker. Good luck to Pirates for the season. Jgjsmith006 (talk) 08:52, 30 August 2017 (UTC)
Jowaninpensans - we now have a map (England South West RFU) to use for south-west teams. I couldn't work it out myself but thankfully the good guys at Wiki Commons were able to help. They are doing four regional maps which will cover the whole of England.

Jgjsmith006 (talk) 09:13, 4 September 2017 (UTC)

I had a go at doing one, it didn't work so gave up.:>)Jowaninpensans (talk) 08:28, 4 September 2017 (UTC)

Same here - couldn't make head or tails of it. Was messing around with templates and everything was all over the place, co-ordinates were all over the place etc. Thankfully, the guys at Wiki Commons were able to come up with the goods!!! Thanks for the tip. Jgjsmith006 (talk) 23:48, 8 September 2017 (UTC)

Rugby League Table Templates

Jowaninpensans. Hi, hope all well. I have noticed that the league table templates (see RFU Championship) are not updating properly. For instance, Bristol's result against Pirates was updated last Sunday to reflect points from two games. It shows the updated version in the code but not actually on the page. This has happened with the N2N and N2S pages as well - everything seems to take ages to displayed. Any ideas? Jgjsmith006 (talk) 09:09, 16 September 2017 (UTC)

I had a problem with the National 1 table and the Wikipedia:Help desk solved it. But see Wikipedia:Help desk#Editing a template. The wait does seem to be increasing. Jowaninpensans (talk) 08:51, 16 September 2017 (UTC)
Maybe it would be better to put the tables as part of the page, rather than as a separate template if that is the case. This would mean two duplicates for current seasons but it wouldn't be unworkable (e.g. league page/season page) but not a lot of extra work. Hopefully, it will speed up as it is good to get most up-to-date information we can. No Launceston game today as visitors Matson have cancelled due to having 35 players unavailable (at the start of the season???) so will have to wait till the 30th for the first home game of the season. Have a good weekend. Jgjsmith006 (talk) 11:06, 16 September 2017 (UTC)

WikiProject Women in Red/The World Contest

Hi. Thankyou for your participation in the challenge series or/and contests. In November The Women in Red World Contest is being held to try to produce new articles for as many countries worldwide and occupations as possible. There will be over $4000 in prizes to win, including Amazon vouchers and paid subscriptions. If this would appeal to you and you think you'd be interested in contributing new articles on women during this month for your region or wherever please sign up in the participants section. If you're not interested in prize money yourself but are willing to participate and raise money to buy books about women for others to use, this is also fine. Thankyou, and if taking part, good luck!♦ Dr. Blofeld 14:35, 27 September 2017 (UTC)

St Ives RFC (Cornwall)

Hi Jowaninpensans. Have created a page for the former Cornish powerhouse known as St Ives RFC. Had a query regarding the South West Premier page which lists Henley Hawks as runners up to Reading during the 1992-93 season (then known as South West 1). The St Ives RFC webpage states that they finished as runners up to Reading that season but they never joined them in the Courage League Division 5 that was implemented the following season. Do you have any information on this? Thanks. Jgjsmith006 (talk) 22:00, 6 October 2017 (UTC)

According to Rothmans, Henley were second, Newbury third and St Ives fourth, and just Reading promoted. All the best. Jowaninpensans (talk) 21:48, 6 October 2017 (UTC)
Just back from Launceston v Okehampton (lost 20-26 away - poor first half cost us). I'll change the St Ives to reflect Rothmans. It may be that St Ives were up there towards the end of the season but trailed off. Memories can be deceptive. Good to see you're back updating Wiki! Enjoy the rest of the weekend and good luck to Pirates tomorrow. Jgjsmith006 (talk) 19:05, 7 October 2017 (UTC)
Was on holiday - the Isles of Scilly. Jowaninpensans (talk) 18:59, 7 October 2017 (UTC)

Wild Duck

See the article talk page for my solution of the problem - I just wanted to come here to thank you for asking the question and coming up with the extra newspaper mentions which were vital in helping me work it out, I have greatly enjoyed researching it, and have learnt new things and discovered interesting resources for future reference (both on and off Wikipedia) along the way. DuncanHill (talk) 04:46, 21 October 2017 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Red/The World Contest

Sure I can't tempt you? 900 article in ten days and still very few UK women bios being done, WMUK are putting up a £250 prize for that, you could sitll win that ;-)♦ Dr. Blofeld 22:46, 10 November 2017 (UTC)

England rugby competition templates

Hi Jowaninpensans - hope all is well. Just to warn you that an editor is going through all the National League 2 South and North pages and removed the rugby competition templates from the bottom of the page, without giving a reason or leaving a note. I think it is being done in good faith but the National League 1 pages are likely to be next. I have left a message on their talk page and am reverting the changes but it is worth keeping an eye on as it has taken some time to get these pages as consistent as possible. Jgjsmith006 (talk) 11:28, 27 November 2017 (UTC)

Yes, he has been removing categories as well. Including current rugby season which isn't very helpful. Jowaninpensans (talk) 16:37, 27 November 2017 (UTC)

1990–91 Courage National Four South

Hi Jowaninpensans. Have created page as shown above. If you have any references or further information for this season then please add. Launceston away at 2nd placed Drybrook today. Too ill to attend but will keep an eye on Twitter feed. We play Exeter University at home the next week (they are 1st) so this could make or break our season! Thanks. Jgjsmith006 (talk) 15:08, 2 December 2017 (UTC)

ArbCom 2017 election voter message

Hello, Jowaninpensans. Voting in the 2017 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23.59 on Sunday, 10 December. All users who registered an account before Saturday, 28 October 2017, made at least 150 mainspace edits before Wednesday, 1 November 2017 and are not currently blocked are eligible to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.

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A page you started (Euura salicispurpureae) has been reviewed!

Thanks for creating Euura salicispurpureae, Jowaninpensans!

Wikipedia editor Nick Moyes just reviewed your page, and wrote this note for you:

Could you correct the grammar in the first sentence of the Description section, please? It's a bit unclear as it stands.

To reply, leave a comment on Nick Moyes's talk page.

Learn more about page curation.

Nick Moyes (talk) 09:37, 11 December 2017 (UTC)

Problems with Euura articles.

Hi. I've noticed that quite a lot of the new article you've created on Euura spp. make mention of the Euura altra group, but does not cite any evidence to support this. I was wondering if this is a recurring typo for  E. atra? Could you also correct the main reference url in Euura auritae, as this week-old link is dead. Many thanks. Regards from the UK Nick Moyes (talk) 09:56, 11 December 2017 (UTC)

The dead link on Euura auritae was caused by me changing the http to https. Thought I was being helpful by adding the s, as a bot is changing urls to https. Firefox did not like it and left a message "Your connection is not secure" and the website owner had configured the website improperly. Have reverted back to http.
Trying to get my head around all the Euura species will then go back to the Eurra atra subgroup. It seems all the gall species have been put in groups. Jowaninpensans (talk) 16:34, 14 December 2017 (UTC)
And just noticed the typo.Jowaninpensans (talk) 20:24, 14 December 2017 (UTC)

Books and Bytes - Issue 25

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London 1 North

Hi Jowaninpensans. I think that you produced some of the winner details for London 1 South in the early years of the competition when it was known as London 2 South. Do you have any details for the London 2 North competition around the same time? Would great to get this completed as there are a lot of blanks. Jgjsmith006 (talk) 16:56, 18 December 2017 (UTC)

National League 1 attendances

Hi Jowaninpensans - hope all is well. I have noticed a big difference between the Rugby Paper attendances and the NCA when covering the National Leagues. Esher RFC seem to suffer from the biggest difference in attendance between the two sources as the examples below show:

  • 28 October 2017: Esher v Blackheath (Rugby Paper att: 650 / NCA att: 1,022) Local derby would go with NCA on this
  • 9 December 2017: Esher v Cambridge (Rugby Paper att: 330 / NCA att: 955) Weather terrible but 330 seems very low

You can see that there is a big difference - hundreds rather than units. I have contacted Esher and hopefully they will get back to me. Hinckley had the same issue but the other way round, where NCA were underestimating and the chair said the Rugby Paper were (more) correct. Wonder why there is such a difference? Jgjsmith006 (talk) 14:32, 14 December 2017 (UTC)

Didn't realise there were differences in attendances. Seems a shame when you can't trust two different sources.Jowaninpensans (talk) 16:41, 14 December 2017 (UTC)
I guess that the NCA and Rugby Paper may have a different contact at some of the club, hence the difference in figures. The Hinckley chairman said he knew someone at the Rugby Paper but wasn't sure where the NCA figure was coming from and that he wanted to get it sorted. He's actually been really good at getting back to emails - some of the clubs don't reply at all! Will let you know if I get any response. Jgjsmith006 (talk) 22:26, 14 December 2017 (UTC)
Nothing back from Esher but Old Redcliffians got back to me regarding the NCA giving them an attendance of 63 and the Rugby Paper 158. Apparently they counted 63 at the start of the game but had sold 150 programmes (the 2nds and 3rds were playing) so you can understand sometimes where the confusion comes in. In this case I would go with the higher figure although the real attendance was probably more like 200 unless they were giving programmes away for free. Jgjsmith006 (talk) 12:55, 19 December 2017 (UTC)

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London & South East Premier

Hi Jowaninpensans - hope you are well. I have a query regarding the honours section of the London & SE page where borders are not displaying properly (it is very noticable). I have tried resolving this in my sandbox (which works) but when the table is pasted back into the London & SE page it reverts back to having no borders. Wonder if you have any ideas? Cheers and good luck to Pirates today - hopefully they can qualify for the quarters. Jgjsmith006 (talk) 14:48, 20 January 2018 (UTC)

I think I had the same problem (either on that page or another) and gave up, hoping someone else would sort it out lol. Jowaninpensans (talk) 18:25, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
Ha - exactly the same thing I was trying to do. Back to the drawing board. Jgjsmith006 (talk) 09:04, 23 January 2018 (UTC)
There's definitely some kind of glitch at that point in the page. I removed the honours table and it applied the weird formatting to the promotion playoff table instead. Put it back in and then the honours table had the weird formatting. Copied the honours table into my sandbox - ok. Copied the whole page into my sandbox - weird honours table. !$#@? Jgjsmith006 (talk) 09:15, 23 January 2018 (UTC)

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North 1 East / North 1 West / North Lancashire/Cumbria

A bit further away but you may be the man to help thanks to your collection of RFU handbooks. I am bashing my brains out over the historical northern league structure, which makes the South West divisions look relatively straightforward. I have contacted the Northern RFU and have some information but it is a laborious process for them to provide me with league tables as everything needs photocopying. I was wondering if you had information on winners, runners up and relegated sides for these divisions or their alternatives at tier 6 - North Division 2, North 2 East, North Lancs/Cumbria etc - in the periods 1987-1998? Cheers. Jgjsmith006 (talk) 20:02, 24 January 2018 (UTC)

Will see what I can do. Currently overstretched myself and (almost) regretting starting listed buildings in pz and plant galls on willows. Jowaninpensans (talk) 07:16, 26 January 2018 (UTC)
Thanks Jowaninpensans - once you get started with something it is hard to finish. With regards to league results I have tried contacting a number of clubs regarding potential North Division 2 winners (Blaydon, Northern) but have received no response as of yet. Launceston v Okehampton tomorrow at Polson - hopefully we can avenge the 20-26 defeat from earlier in the season. Have a good weekend. Jgjsmith006 (talk) 16:04, 26 January 2018 (UTC)

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2018 Bill Beaumont Cup

Hi Jowaninpensans - hope all well. I have created pages for this years County Championship including the big one. Hopefully will be able to get to the games at Redruth and Camborne. I have seen Launceston at these grounds but not Cornwall (in fact I have never seen Cornwall at a live game) so looking forward to it. We had a pretty decent season at Polson in finishing 3rd, albeit way off the top two (Drybrook and Exeter University) who we lost to home and away, and disappointing to lose out on a cup final (I missed the loss away to Wadebridge Camels) but it sure beats relegation. Will be interesting to see how next year goes. Cheers. Jgjsmith006 (talk) 19:57, 23 April 2018 (UTC)

Seen your new pages and I am not working on the home match dates, so will be going along. We ought to meet. Will be with a couple of mates and will be going for a drink after. Jowaninpensans (talk) 19:08, 23 April 2018 (UTC)
I hope to get down for at least one of the games so will let you know nearer the date. Be interesting to see how the ground(s) look with 3,000 or so supporters in them. It would help give an idea of total capacity as I doubt Redruth can safely fit in 12,000 supporters - more like 4,000. Incidentally, I changed Launcestons from 6,000 to 3,000 as that was much more realistic (we had nearly 3,000 in a game v Pirates back in 2008 I think). Jgjsmith006 (talk) 21:44, 23 April 2018 (UTC)
I use to go up for the Pirate matches and it wasn't easy to see well, so can't see how the capacity could be 6,000. Also was at a Cornwall semi-final against Surrey back in 1967 (was at school at the time); don't know the size of the crowd but didn't see any of the match. I expect the attendance was 10,000 or more – there may have been a temporary stand where the scoreboard is now. Jowaninpensans (talk) 12:40, 24 April 2018 (UTC)
Found this document [2] which gives fire safety capacities for the top football rugby grounds in the mid 1970s to early 1980s. It is interesting to see that it has Redruth's estimated capacity at 21,725, Cambornes at 18,582, while the likes of Bristol have 16,000 and Gloucester at 10,000+. This thread is also interesting [3] where a poster talks about the ground having capacity of around 18,000 (1980s?) which included (as you also say) "temporary stands and good banked terracing" and the "third largest rugby ground at the time after Twickenham and Welford Road". Another article (Hellfire Magazine - but I can't find the link all of a sudden) says that an estimated 25,000 were at the Recreation Ground in the 1970s for a game between Western Counties and one of the international touring sides. I would say the present day ground at Redruth can take 4,000 max including 600 in the stand, which is what I estimated the last time I was down there when there was a crowd of 1,000+ and still quite a lot of room on the banks. I plan to update Redruth's page accordingly as the club haven't been particularly good at getting back to emails - will get some photos of the ground first. Jgjsmith006 (talk) 22:08, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

Tribute Western Counties North

Going through all the leagues to add champions, relegated teams etc and have spotted that Western Counties North has no results details for 1997-98 season. Have you got any details of this year from handbooks, press releases? Also no info on relegated sides for 1996-97 season. Thanks. Jgjsmith006 (talk) 11:42, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

Unfortunately Rothmans 1999–2000 only printed the top four divisions, so do not have the tables for 1998-99, so cannot work out the relegated teams. Jowaninpensans (talk) 12:40, 24 April 2018 (UTC)
Dohhhh. Just worked out how to do it! Only one team relegated. Jowaninpensans (talk) 12:44, 24 April 2018 (UTC)
Good work. Always satisfying to get a results page complete. Jgjsmith006 (talk) 22:12, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

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Redruth R.F.C.

Hi Jowaninpensans. Visited Redruth today and got a few photos and made a capacity estimate; 3,500 (580 seats). One of the staff said that police had given a recent estimate of 3,000 but I think the ground can take more. Be good to see how it looks tomorrow. Will be in to watch game but shooting back to Launceston straight after (relying on lift+dinner later) but can meet up at game for chat. Will be dressed in camouflage shorts and matching fishing hat so should stand out (although I am 5.6 so you may have to look down if you are taller). Cheers. Jgjsmith006 (talk) 19:06, 4 May 2018 (UTC)

I usually stand opposite the stand and towards the scoreboard. Initially on my own as mates are working. Jowaninpensans (talk) 07:40, 5 May 2018 (UTC)
I will head over that way and hopefully will see you there. Weather in Launceston not so bad following misty start so hopefully same in Redruth. Jgjsmith006 (talk) 08:47, 5 May 2018 (UTC)
Must have missed you yesterday. Was actually pretty cold in Redruth and the result was disappointing as was the attendance. Rugby Paper reported 851 but I thought it was at least a 1,000. With this format it will be very hard for Cornwall to qualify now - I think Gloucestershire may well win the group given that they have the easier fixtures. Maybe see you at Camborne next week. Jgjsmith006 (talk) 12:12, 6 May 2018 (UTC)
I did look for you. I did approach someone in shorts and matching hat. Do not believe the official attendance, there was more than a thousand there.Jowaninpensans (talk) 19:48, 6 May 2018 (UTC)
I was over by the scoreboard in the top corner - obviously too much camouflage - my names Jake btw if you find you need to shout - will wear the same gear next Sat - hopefully warmer. Came on my own but I saw a couple of Launceston supporters including John Dawe's father who it was interesting to chat to - nice to see him get one of the tries. Regarding attendance it would be good to get a proper figure as I saw 850 in Rugby Paper and 815 in the Sports Independent. Press coverage has been pathetic this season - the Cornwall RFU haven't even got the result of the St Ives v Wadebridge game and I don't know what has happened to the Cornwall Clubs Cup? Let me know if you get wind of anything. Cheers. Jgjsmith006 (talk) 18:31, 7 May 2018 (UTC)

Was around that area but did not see you. Not sure if I will be at Camborne - will let you know. Jowaninpensans (talk) 19:19, 9 May 2018 (UTC)

Cheers Jowan. Think I will wear coat and Cornish All Blacks hat for tomorrow (bound to be boiling now). Will likely be on bank opposite stand. Was going to go with a mate but he is not well. Hopefully Cornwall can get a win but missing Shepherd for the kicks as he is playing for Albion again. Jgjsmith006 (talk) 19:52, 11 May 2018 (UTC)
Won't make it today. Maybe next year. Or when I make a trip to Lancen to record galls or leaf mines. Use to visit for the half-marathon and ?Treggy 7. Jowaninpensans (talk) 11:48, 12 May 2018 (UTC)
Ah yes the wonderful Treggy Seven - bad enough walking the route let alone running it. Another poor start cost Cornwall today, 17-0 down at half-time, but did well to rally to lose 20-21. Looked a bigger crowd than Redruth but not the 3,000 or so Cornwall got a (couple) season ago - or the 25,000 back in the glory years. Should be an interesting season for Launceston next year with St Ives, Devonport Services and Okehampton providing some localish derbies. Devonport is also coached by former All Black coach, Mike Lewis, so that will add something to that fixture. Enjoy the off season. Jgjsmith006 (talk) 21:48, 12 May 2018 (UTC)

County Championship Promotion / Relegation & Cornwall Clubs Cup

Hi Jowan. I have a couple of questions you may be able to answer. First do you know if the County Championship has two sides relegated from each group? The Independent said that Devon were relegated despite beating Cornwall - now seeing that they are ahead of Surrey that makes me assume that both they and Surrey go down next season but I am not 100% sure. Secondly, do you know what has happened to the Cornwall Clubs Cup? No information anywhere. Cheers. Jgjsmith006 (talk) 11:53, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

Afraid I have no idea to either question. Its a good job we did well last year otherwise we would be needing a win on Saturday to avoid relegation.
Will be doing less rugby in future as I will not be renewing my subscription to the Rugby Paper. Since they no longer let you download it as a pdf file, I find it fiddly to read and therefore irritating. An advert takes up a third of the screen on my laptop. Jowaninpensans (talk) 14:45, 17 May 2018 (UTC)
The general consensus is that one team goes down from each group - personally if relegation is every two years and they want different teams in then it would make sense to have 2 up, 2 down every 2 years. If I was structuring the County Championship I would have 4 groups of 3 in the top flight with home and away games (4 games each), followed by a semi final (south west v south east, midlands v north) and then final. It is crazy that both Yorkshire and Lancashire won all their games but didn't face each other??? The RFU and makings sensible decisions don't go hand in hand (see Premiership and Championship Cup debacle). Shame that you are cutting back on the rugby but I will be able to take over National League 1 - I only hope Statbunker keeps running as I can't trust the Rugby Paper player (and attendance) stats which change each week plus their misnaming of players (Lancashire's Chris Johnson was Simon Johnson for weeks in National League 2). Regarding Cornwall Clubs Cup, Sports Independent says finals to take place either this weekend or the next. Cheers. Jgjsmith006 (talk) 17:12, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
There was a six team league in 1901 won by Redruth. Not sure how to get it on the wikipedia. May start a Rugby union in Cornwall in the 1900s page and include the Cornwall matches or a Sport in Cornwall 1900–01 page – can then have cricket and football. Will dwell on it for a bit but prefering an all sports page. Jowaninpensans (talk) 21:21, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

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