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Sockpuppetry case against IrishLass0128

Hi. Putting this here because I am very much unsure about where to go since the case is already closed.

My run in with IrishLass does not give me the impression that she and KellyAna is the same person. Although it is clear, from edits such as this [1] that they do know each other of wiki.

The RFCU makes the claim that the two never talk to each other, but this is not quite true; This is not quite true, they are policing each others talk pages and inform when alterations is made; [2] and [3].

The lack of overlap between editing time is striking, but is consistent with one editor having internet acces at home while the other edits from work.

My view is that WP:AGF leads us to assume meatpuppetry and not sockpuppetry. This is important because it implies that Irishlass could be acting in good faith. Taemyr (talk) 10:51, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

For our purposes, there is no practical difference between meatpuppetry and sock puppetry. We cannot snorkel through the wires and see who's on the other end. If we have one person with two accounts, or two people behaving like one person, the remedy is the same. It is not acceptable for two people to tag team edit in order to gain the advantage. In any case, KellyAna has behaved badly enough to get a permanent time out, at least until she indicates a desire to change. IrishLass0128 has received the least sanction that was considered, because in my judgement I wanted to extend every possible benefit of the doubt. Jehochman Talk 18:08, 9 April 2008 (UTC)


multiple throw away sock puppets

Hi, As u have correctly identified, multiple throw away sock puppets are messing around in articles Mudaliar Sengunthar Devadasi and Gatti_Mudalis. If possible can you please semi protect all the above articles so that it is easier for genuine editors to work. Saedirof (talk) 21:14, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

I will protect things if they are attacked repeatedly, but not before, nor if the attacks have stopped. Jehochman Talk 21:44, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Help

I went to the page you recommended re disputes and have added my information to Delicious Carbuncle's request. [[4]]

I'm sorry you thought what I was saying was just an accusation. You are incorrect in saying it is unsubstantiated as its well supported by evidence, self admitted by the people in question, see Delicious Carbuncle's (talk)talk page.

I would have just appreciated your help without assuming I have any other agenda than to stop someone stalking me. That's all I can say. You cannot know what I have been through at the hands of the before mentioned people. But it is irrevelant I guess - except that it has now spilled onto wikipedia and a totally unrelated editor is being accused of being me in rather nasty circumstances.

Restawhile (talk) 00:26, 10 April 2008 (UTC)restawhile

For the sake of transparency and to reduce political intrigues, my policy is to post cases to the community noticeboards whenever possible. There are some editors, probably not you, who shop around for friendly administrators to do their bidding. I will not participate in that sort of cabalism. Therefore, if you have a concern, please do post it to the correct place and then I or somebody else will help you. For stalking incidents, you should post to WP:ANI and make sure to include several "diffs" that show evidence of stalking. I hope this helps. Jehochman Talk 03:12, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for standing up for me

[5] I know it can be hard, seeing as how I'm so unpopular. ScienceApologist (talk) 15:41, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

If this is not Iantresman socking, I would support unblocking him. Your tormentor could be another troll using this incident as cover. Jehochman Talk 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
You might be right. There is an entire forum of Ian Tresman allies angry at my activity at Wikipedia: [6]. Soupdragon, it turns out, is one of the names of one of the members there other than Iantresman. ScienceApologist (talk) 15:59, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
Add this evidence to the open cases, then let the community handle it. Jehochman Talk 16:01, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Dana's sock case

Jehochman, I don't quite agree with your assessment of this sockpuppet case. I find that the creation date of the users match too well with Dana creating an account to edit his own article and then creating new accounts whenever the someone asks if he is Dana. Notice how the users just stop editing when they are being asked if they are Dana, and never defend themselves, and then keep editing with the same arguments.

I know that you are a way more experienced editor than me, and that you are experienced with sock cases, but I find this case to be hurried too much. Is there some procedure to get a checkuser done by asking to other admin or to get the case reviewed by a different admin? I don't want to "admin-shop", but I don't really feel confortable with your handling of the case, and I would like another admin with checkuser privileges to look at it and confirm that it's necessary to make a checkuser.

It just looks to me like an evident case, even if I couldn't find any actual smoking gun to point it. There is also more circumstancial evidence, like Dana and those users having all of them two spaces after every end of sentence on all comments, this being something that only happens to a percentage of users of wikipedia, and that I forgot to include on the case.

I thought of sending you a private email, but since you always say that you want to talk things on the open, I'm posting here. --Enric Naval (talk) 01:54, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

First, much of the complaint was stale. We don't block for old offenses. The fresh material was not convincing at all. Feel free to request checkuser if you can provide the required evidence. Jehochman Talk 02:03, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
Ah, OK, I see your point. You are right in that the ofenses are old. Well, if Dana really used those accounts, I hope that he sees the case and decides to never do it again, in which case the intended purpose (avoiding sockpuppetry) has been fulfilled. A block now for those old actions would have been a punitive action, I should have remembered that, sorry for that. You closed the case very correctly. --Enric Naval (talk) 02:16, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
Glad to see that Enric learned something here. I wanted to alert you that FlagTheError is NOT me, and this user emailed me to say s/he got blocked indefinitely by admin East718. I sent him an email to alert him of his error and to avoid biting the newbies, and yet, this user is still blocked...and is now very discouraged. DanaUllmanTalk 03:54, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
They can file an unblock request. All new accounts appear to be single purpose. Perhaps this is an overzealous fan of yours. Perhaps if they are unblocked somebody will explain to them how Wikipedia works, so they don't get into trouble again. Jehochman Talk 13:44, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
Worth noting, perhaps, that Flagtheerror's first edits were posted on 18 December 2007, the same day as this[7]. Brunton (talk) 12:00, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:NotTheWikipediaWeekly

Jehochman, Are you interested in popping by for a chat with the NTWW? All you need is a working headset, a glass of water (trust me, all the talking gets tiring :) and skype on your computer (it's free). We'd love to have a knowledgeable chap such as yourself on ;) Regards, Anthøny 02:12, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Thank you very much. What's the schedule? Jehochman Talk 09:08, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
Great stuff! Well, we're on Skype just now, although it's just an informal chat, rather than a formal episode. You're welcome to add me (I'm agkwiki) and I'll put you through to the conference call, but otherwise, we're looking at getting together next Friday. We'd love to have you just now, though ;) Anthøny 01:00, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Yes I wouldnt mind talking to Jehochman myself although I am not on Skype right now. I was earlier however.--Filll (talk) 01:18, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

That's because you abandoned us :) *stares* Anthøny 01:44, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
Sorry my connection died.--Filll (talk) 01:48, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
No problems ;) Anthøny 02:47, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Fairly painless

This was fairly painless! :-) BTW, do you know if the arbitrators watch the talk page. I posted this, but I can't remember whether talk pages and main pages are mixed up together in watchlists or whether they show up separately. I was thinking of asking for advice somewhere, and here seems as good a place as any. Carcharoth (talk) 13:30, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

When watching a page, the talk page is also watched, and they appear as separate entries. Surely they will see your comment. My comment will be seen, but remains unseen. *:o) Jehochman Talk 13:33, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
Huh? Are you in a contrary mood today? :-) Carcharoth (talk) 13:44, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
Not at all! I am feeling rather jovial, after a trip to Dunkin Donuts and a large coffee. Jehochman Talk 14:13, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
We have Dunkin Donuts here, but I guess you don't have Tesco yet? Carcharoth (talk) 15:34, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
Not that I am aware of. We have Wild Oats, an organic market, to compensate for the hellishly good, but unhealthy fare at Dunkin Donuts. Jehochman Talk 16:01, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Two birds with one stone

Hi, Jehochman. I bring something related to violation on our user naming policy and possible SSP. You're very strict to inappropriate wording or comment by editors, so I think you can clear this up. A new user named Chibalnom (talk · contribs) nominates Hankuk Academy of Foreign Studies for deletion.Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Hankuk Academy of Foreign Studies

At first the article looks quite mess without reliable citations, but I know the school is a notable school for gifted students in South Korea. However, his name concerns me more that the article, because it refers to "son of bitch" in Korean and his user page also is written with "Chibal!". He seems to be very knowledgeable of all the procedure for AFD on contrary to his registered date. Not to mention, the name is a blatant violation on the user name policy but I think he is likely a sock of this non-Korean editor.[8] Since the romanization is not following the Revised Romanization, generally used method to transcribe Korean language into English here, I guess he pretends to be Korean. In addition, his eagerness toward Korean academic institutions and DAB pages, the two people could be the same person. Please look into this case, Thanks. --Appletrees (talk) 17:21, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

It seems like the nuanced meaning is more like "Fuck you, bitch", which qualifies as an invalid username. The fact that they are editing Korean articles creates a presumption that this is not an innocent happenstance. I will do something. Jehochman Talk 17:31, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
Thank you very much for your help. :) --Appletrees (talk) 17:43, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

RFA thanks

Thanks for your support in my RFA, that didn't quite make it and ended at 120/47/13. There was a ton of great advice there, that I'm going to go on. Maybe someday. If not, there are articles to write! Thanks for your support. Lawrence § t/e 17:39, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

User:Jnelson09 and User:Sottolacqua

Hi - I saw you recently contributed to Sottolacqua's request for editor assistance. I've asked Jnelson09 to show the edit he considers vandalism, and I actually disagree with him and think that the section removed by Sottolacqua was not encyclopaedic. I'd be interested in hearing your views on this. The discussion on Jnelson09's talk page contains the bulk of the details and the edit in question is here: [9]. Many thanks, Howie ☎ 02:30, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Citation tool?

I see you have something about a new citation tool on your userpage. How does it work, does it add a new tab to the top of wiki pages like Twinkle, with a dropdown selection of citation templates or something? Cirt (talk) 05:46, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Its a Firefox add-on. When viewing a web page the you'd like to cite, right click on the page, select WPCITE, and a little window opens with the cite code. Then copy and paste into Wikipedia. Jehochman Talk 09:36, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

[1]

  1. ^ "User talk:Jehochman - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia". wiki.riteme.site. Retrieved 2008-04-14.

Ha! That is really neat, thank you so much for developing this! So it works with the template {{cite web}} primarily? Cirt (talk) 11:57, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Yes. We could program additional options, but it is easy enough to tweak the output by hand if you would like a different cite template, or to add other fields. Jehochman Talk 18:19, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Citation tool for Wikinews?

Is there a way that a similar Citation tool could be developed like this for Wikinews? Over there the primary source template used is {{source|url=|title=|author=|pub=|date=}} - for example as used at n:3000 homeless after fire breaks out in Chad refugee camp. Only if you have a chance - I know this would really be useful at Wikinews because we rely quite heavily on online sources, and a lot of people would really appreciate it - just that we use a different form of source-template. Cirt (talk) 07:18, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Transparency: ArbCom and Oversight Process

Not knowing to whom I should pose this administrative question, I thought that I would turn to you. I notice that User:PHG was blocked for one week with the "strong encouragement" that he find a mentor. I don't disagree with the suggestion (it will likely do the user some good), but I notice that "encouragement" is not exactly the same as directly ordering a user to do something.

For my own edification, what should happen if the user (or any user) simply ignored the Arbcom's "encouragement" at the end of this one-week block and proceeded to edit as if nothing had happened (a reasonable assumption based on the user's history)? In terms of administrative process, what would happen? J Readings (talk) 18:15, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

If they managed to self-correct past problems, they could happily continue editing. However, if they were to repeat past mistakes, which seems likely since PHG denies having made any mistakes, the result may be a series of rapidly escalating blocks. Jehochman Talk 18:17, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
Thank you. J Readings (talk) 19:01, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Deleted article Megalithic yard restored

User:Little sawyer has restored the article Megalithic yard. I think you have some information about his history and posts under a different name.--Doug Weller (talk) 20:46, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

I have no feelings about this article. If there is some sort of abusive sock puppetry, please file a report. Regards, Jehochman Talk 20:55, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
Thanks. It's been deleted now anyway.Doug Weller (talk) 21:24, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Sockpuppet report

Hi. I have added some comments to a recent sockpuppet report on Rafaelsfingers.

I note from your checkuser report that you did not ask for a check against Rafaelsfingers and supergreenred - maybe you should put those together with the IPs, as it may be that Sky really is in Taiwan - in which case there may still be a sockpuppetmaster in San Fransisco, where I think both Rafael and Supergreen are editing from.

As for Aho Aho, if you feel he is a sockpuppet then sky may warrant a further remedy, as the AA account has continued to edit even after Sky was originally blocked for sockpuppeting. John Smith's (talk) 12:57, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Yes indeed. This report is a tangled mess, but I will pull it apart one thread at a time. Jehochman Talk 13:17, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
I've tried to be more helpful in how I've structured my comments. John Smith's (talk) 13:33, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
By the way, do you look into edit-warring? Only if you have the time there's a 3RR report on supergreenred for reverting four times in 24 hours 9 minutes. I believe that is grounds for a block. See here. John Smith's (talk) 13:35, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Controlled demo lead

Hi Jehochman, sorry about that unnecessary edit of your revert. I thought I was editing the version you had just reverted. I know it has been discussed before, but it would be good if you and others briefly state your opinon (in favour of A) here so that the consensus can be easily identified for next time. While I lean to B, I don't mind A. If consensus is for A, I'll take it upon myself to point B-ers in the direction of the poll. Best--Thomas Basboll (talk) 09:17, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Your closure of Wikipedia:Suspected_sock_puppets/Bsharvy_(2nd)

I am sorry, but you closed the SSP recommending WP:DE, which I am not debating. But if the community follows your recommendation it leads to ANI, which you yourself called "A place that fuels drama". Is it no advisable that parties conserned should pursue their conserns at WP:RFC/U. Igor Berger (talk) 15:57, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Good call

Re [10] and the rest: thanks. It will help a lot; indeed it already has William M. Connolley (talk) 21:18, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Bad call

Per the evidence on this page, it is an implausible coincidence for these three accounts, supporting each other and the same idiosyncratic point of view, to be located in such a narrow geographic region while editing the same narrow set of articles. If hat's the crucial point leading to an indefblock of Giovanni33, I must say that leaving out the crucial fact that the "idiosyncratic POV" is US=massive terrorist ringleader, the "narrow set of articles"=those articles which imply the US is a massive terrorist ringleader and the "narrow geographical area is San Francisco!! does strengthen your argument a bit. Put it in, and your argument fails, I'm afraid. Not that I am particularly upset if Giovanni has gone, but if you think that every IP/ account in future (or in the past!) editing with that POV from Northern California is a sockpuppet of G33, we are going to see a hell of a lot of false positives. --Relata refero (disp.) 12:56, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Really? Please point out a few of these false positives. I spent many hours scouring the data. Show me anything to indicate that these accounts are in any way distinguishable from one another. Jehochman Talk 13:04, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
No, you're the blocker, you do that, why don't you?
I merely read your rationale and pointed out one enormous bloody hole in it. --Relata refero (disp.) 13:11, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
That's my point. I looked for false positives or any feature that would distinguish these accounts, and there was none to be found. The unpleasant situation is that we had a user with a history of exactly this sort of problem with a set of circumstances, reported by users in good standing, that exactly matched sock puppetry. I had to make a difficult judgment call per all the available information, and the conclusion was a finding of sock puppetry. I have invited checkusers, and others, to review the report. Everything is available for inspection and comment. Jehochman Talk 16:30, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
Everything except any actual evidence. As I point out again, you haven't demonstrated anything except that we have a bunch of accounts from San Francisco who edit a particular set of articles with a POV that is hardly unusual or rare in that geographical area. I hope you realise that some similarities in editing should ideally be presented. If you spent a few hours examining this already, it shouldn't be too much extra work. --Relata refero (disp.) 17:52, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
There's no rush, of course; if you feel unwilling to plod through it again I'll just post it at AN and see if anyone is willing to review it. The SPA blocks are no problem, but the long-term account needed more rationale than was provided. --Relata refero (disp.) 21:25, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Three administrators have endorsed the block. You are the lone opposition. See below, as well as the SSP report talk page and the unblock denial on the user's talk page. Jehochman Talk 21:54, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Unfortunately what I've seen isn't helpful. WMC talks about the SPA block. The unblock request on the user's talkpage is extremely disturbing; there's no examination of your rationale at all, only an assumption its correct. That's not good procedure. And the SSP talkpage... well, I've asked Krimpet to weigh in again. The point remains, this block has been made on the assumption that nobody else in Northern California would edit like this account on this subject, and that's a completely unjustifiable assumption. If there's something else that you saw and that I'm not seeing, please do tell me. --Relata refero (disp.) 22:27, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

As much as I like Giovanni, I would agree that he is using sockpuppets. For example, with only about 20 edits to his name, Supergreenred removes John Smiths comments from his talk page here, something which Giovanni habitually does. In the next edit John Smith notes the obvious: [11]. John Smith was Gio's opponent in the arbcom case and they have a long history. Another possibility: Gio's opponents are setting him up by creating socks that look like him. Entirely possible, and very easy to do, so there is some ambiguity. ^^James^^ (talk) 03:17, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Good call on the unblock Jehochman - that was very fair minded of you. I really doubt those were socks of Giovanni given the style of writing - and what would have been a very sloppy method of socking by a former sockpuppeter. Perhaps other admins will review the situation, but I think the evidence was too weak for an indef block (though as I said on AN/I it's easy to see why you would have come to a different conclusion and decided on the block).--Bigtimepeace | talk | contribs 03:31, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
Thank you. The report was complex and there were actually quite a few socks involved. It seems that Giovanni33 may have been an innocent bystander who got caught in the dragnet because of his history. Jehochman Talk 03:41, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
That may have been the case; you're right, the original report was very complex. Either way, I think eyes are on G33 now. Thank you for reconsidering. --Relata refero (disp.) 08:14, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
Please look at additional evidence here: http://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/User_talk:Rafaelsfingers#Additional_evidence Ultramarine (talk) 17:56, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

User_talk:Togepi_987#Blocked

Thank you! Bearian (talk) 19:43, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

The RickK Anti-Vandalism Barnstar
This Barnstar is given for quick and valiant action against a vandal who has harassed many a fine editor. Kudos! Bearian (talk) 19:45, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Wooo! I don't have on of these yet. Jehochman Talk 19:47, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Good call. I issued him a final warning, but he didn't seem to heed it. Fully support your block, and endorse the above barnstar. If you have a "gallery" of those things, add another one from me ;) (Yes, I'm serious). Btw, don't forget the NotTheWikipediaWeekly tomorrow evening! Anthøny 20:09, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Issues raised by Ultramarine

Ultramarine makes some interesting points on Rafael's talk page. Wanted to let you know in case you missed them. John Smith's (talk) 17:59, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Rafaelsfingers

If he is to be considered for unblocking, surely he needs to admit to his sockpuppetry and disclose all accounts/IPs/etc that he has been using. Though, as I mention above, Ultramarine feels that there is new evidence that points to Giovanni being the puppeteer, rather than Rafael (which would make Rafael a sock). John Smith's (talk) 18:02, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

And if we unblock them and they really are socking, we will be able to watch them and gather evidence to make an indefinite block stick. Unblocking is a win-win situation. I am probably going to unblock unless they give me a reason not to. Jehochman Talk 19:08, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
What if the puppetmaster decides to leave Rafael as a sleeper to start causing trouble when everyone's forgetten about this? At the very least you should insist on disclosure - otherwise it's encouraging people to abuse sockpuppets because they'll assume they won't be punished (much) for it. John Smith's (talk) 19:12, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
Raphael's block log will make sure nobody forgets this incident. You'll notice that I put the SSP report link into the block log. Jehochman Talk 19:38, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
So are you going to insist on disclosure? I think it's only fair. Also there's the outstanding point on Ultramarine's comments on Giovanni. Cheers, John Smith's (talk) 19:46, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
Lets assume good faith and focus on article content instead of negative speculations of editors, who are not being disruptive but cooperative and helpful. WP is not a place to fight battles against editors and try to get opponents blocked, or banned. Lets all give these editors a full assumption of good faith and let their actions be their judge, not their ideological opponents. Jehochman has shown integrity and qualities of impartiality with regard to his good faith blocks and unblocks.Giovanni33 (talk) 03:35, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
Giovanni, you can't use good faith to avoid potential restrictions - otherwise no one would ever get blocked. If you really are using sockpuppets again then that would lead to an auto-ban. John Smith's (talk) 09:22, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Iantresman

I'd like to ask your advice, because I think you're familiar with procedures related to sockpuppets. I'm inclined to remove a suspected sockpuppet template from User:Iantresman's userpage. The suspected sockpuppet reports (first , second) didn't find conclusive evidence of sockpuppetry. The template was placed on the user page on April 10, around the time of filing the second suspected sockpuppet report, by ScienceApologist. I proposed on Iantresman's talk page removing the sockpuppet template and no one has objected. Would I be violating any policy or usual procedure if I were to delete the template? Thanks. ☺Coppertwig (talk) 01:44, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

No, the tag should stay. One of the suspected socks was IDed by checkuser previously. I have removed a few of the suspects that have not been supported by evidence. Jehochman Talk 03:00, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
Among those suspected sockpuppets of Iantresman is Applecola. If there is no need for my "An editor has expressed a concern that this user may be a sock puppet of Iantresman" tag, then why is he blocked indefinitely as an Iantresman sockpuppet? Seems inconsistent. Art LaPella (talk) 03:13, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
Grrr. This is why I dislike private Checkuser requests. Things should be in the open so we can link to them. That way the admin who wanders into a situation six months later can actually figure out what happened! Jehochman Talk 03:58, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for your comments. Oh. I was going to say, if the tag stays, then could there be a link to the evidence? But I don't understand about the private checkuser request. Couldn't there at least be a link to a statement that there was a private checkuser request? The sockpuppet reports are rather confusing -- they don't clearly sum up the conclusions. ☺Coppertwig (talk) 11:11, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
Checkuser for Applecola was ruled unnecessary because Raul654 had blocked him in the meantime. Wikipedia:Requests for checkuser/Case/Iantresman Art LaPella (talk) 18:36, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
Oh -- do you know which suspected sock was IDed by checkuser? not Applecola, I gather. If you still oppose removing the template from User:Iantresman, Jehochman, would you please fix it to have a link to the evidence and a link to a list of suspected sockpuppets for which there is some evidence? As it is at the moment it's rather confusing. Thanks. ☺Coppertwig (talk) 01:51, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
User:Tsyko. See Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Martinphi-ScienceApologist/Workshop. I don't know why Coppertwig linked Jehochman's removal of the tag from User talk:Applecola. That was only because it duplicated the tag at User:Applecola, which he has now restored. However, my previous comment agrees that CheckUser wasn't used on Applecola, to my knowledge. Both Applecola and Tsyko remain blocked as sockpuppets to evade a ban, which seems inconsistent with Coppertwig's assertion [12] that Iantresman has done nothing wrong. Art LaPella (talk) 03:24, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Tsyko (talk · contribs) was a obvious sleeper sock who appeared at Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Martinphi-ScienceApologist with a grudge against ScienceApologist. I made an on-wiki request at the RfArb workshop to checkuser the account against Iantresman, since it seemed pretty obvious, but the request languished. Ultimately I asked Raul654 to look at it, since socks of banned users who disrupt ArbCom cases are A Bad Thing. Raul654 confirmed that Iantresman==Tsyko (though proxying for a banned user didn't stop Martinphi from reinserting Ian's "evidence", but that's another story).

Anyhow, I requested the checkuser. Tsyko is a sockpuppet used by Iantresman to evade his ban and carry on his grudge against ScienceApologist in an ArbCom case. The sockpuppetry was confirmed by Raul654 via checkuser. Any impression that Iantresman "has done nothing wrong" is an incorrect one. MastCell Talk 03:44, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

I wonder whether there's a misunderstanding. On what do you base the statement that there was a checkuser performed on Tsyko? Wikipedia:Requests for checkuser/Case/Iantresman says that no checkuser was performed because Tsyko had already been blocked. By the way, the reason I posted the link to Jehochman removing the Applecola sockpuppet template was that the edit summary said "no evidence". I don't understand how or why Art LaPella posted a message above at 03:24 stating that Jehochman had restored the template, when Jehochman didn't restore the template until 03:57, but maybe that's not important. ☺Coppertwig (talk) 11:28, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
I'm also wondering whether anyone has specific information as to why Iantresman was indefinitely banned in the first place. I'm looking for something useful: specific enough that the user has the option of changing his behaviour in future. Just saying that there was "disruption", for example, is not much use IMO because it gives little or no information on what the user would have to do differently. It has to be described in objective terms so it can be understood by people who might not (at first) consider such behaviour to be problematic. ☺Coppertwig (talk) 12:18, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
Socking while banned is reason enough to keep the ban in effect until the user identifies all the accounts they have used and vows to stop socking. I suggest you stop acting as an advocate in multiple venues, and let Iantresman speak for themselves. This conversation on my talk page is over. I had nothing to do with the original ban. Please address your concerns to ArbCom. Jehochman Talk 13:48, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
(edit conflict)well, I answered on Copper's talk page --Enric Naval (talk) 14:09, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Conflict resolution

Thanks for offering to help. I don't want to take up too much of your time, but any good directions would be much appreciated. To sum up my concerns:

I've been working on the Criticisms of capitalism page. Understanding that it's a contentious issue, but with some knowledge to (hopefully) share, I arrived at the page and found it to be in complete shambles. The text was incoherent, point-counterpoint-point-counterpoint arguments with shotgun facts/opinions thrown around. Looking at the talk page it was obvious that a long dipsute in early-2007 either scared away or disheartened a number of editors and now there was one editor left (User:Ultramarine). In any case, I set about to (essentially) rewrite the article, taking special care to cite all of my entries. In order to keep the article non-contentious, my idea was to give historical background, focusing on critics who have been the most influential and working towards the modern day. I didn't have some anti-corporate agenda, or plan to play up some big capitalist conspiracy, I just wanted to provide a coherent description of the subject matter with attention on history and current thought (something an encyclopedia does, right?). So I didn't think it would be a problem... UNTIL I made my first edit. Within the hour, 10 edits were made in quick succession.[13] This continued for a couple of days as I continued editing. Ultramarine's philosophy was to delete/revert first and ask questions later -- not very inviting for someone relatively new to the Wikipedia project. A number of nitpitcky arguments arrived on the talk page that were borderline asinine. Fortunately, I have thick skin so I stuck around. But the constant (I can't think of a better word) harrassment wore thin and I took a break from the article for a couple of weeks. I returned, Ultramarine was still at it, and I had had enough.

ANYWAYS, if you've read through that description you can see where I'm coming from. In terms of community building, Ultramarine is not (I keep using this term) "inviting". What do I do? Thanks again. Uwmad (talk) 04:48, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

First, brush up by reading WP:OWN. That page may contain useful tips on how to deal with an editor who acts as if they own an article. Articles aren't owned, but sometimes people forget. Tomorrow I will look at this in greater detail. Jehochman Talk 05:07, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
Thanks. I read WP:OWN and it describes UM's actions perfectly. As someone mentioned on the Wikiquette page, it could also be a case of incivility and WP:OR. Also, Ultramarine believes that the page violates WP:NPOV and WP:CFORK. His/her intention is to add a counterargument to every entry on the page. There's currently a discussion on the talk page here. Let me mention that I'm not interested in edit warring and that I tend to assume good intentions. I've typically just let the counter-edits slide (usually after a drawn out dicsusion on the talk page in which I concede the fact that the discussion will lead nowhere). I've only edited a couple of pages and am fairly new to this process. I learned about Wikipedia from the newspaper and was excited at the prospect of a community-generated encyclopedia. But having seen this process first-hand, I can safely say that actions like these can be very harmful to the project; weeding out mainstream (majority) people and leaving a very polarized base. Uwmad (talk) 17:55, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
Pick four articles in four completely different areas. This will help you learn about how things work and make friends. A majority of articles are peaceful and polite. Do not become disillusioned. With millions of articles, a few are bound to be duds. Jehochman Talk 20:17, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

PHG

Excellent point regarding the sockpuppetry. I'm afraid I won't be able to file a report until much later this evening, though... Kafka Liz (talk) 14:31, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Regrettably, PHG has developed a reputation for tendentiousness, and argumentativeness. Under ordinary circumstances, such IP socking would not be credible, but in this situation, it deserves scrutiny. I am not sure the evidence is strong enough for a block, but at minimum we can shine light on the issue and discourage future socking. Jehochman Talk 15:44, 20 April 2008 (UTC)


Hey, can you take a look at Talk:9/11 and check out one user's actions. I'm on the verging of asking for a topic ban, since he's done nothing but waste everyone's time, but I need a sober second look. --Haemo (talk) 20:35, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Warnings

Re: Xiutwel's warning here, see this. Raul654 (talk) 02:27, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for that. See WP:AE#Xiutwel. Jehochman Talk 06:27, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Homeopathy

An Arbitration case in which you commented has been opened, and is located here. Please add any evidence you may wish the Arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Homeopathy/Evidence. Please submit your evidence within one week, if possible. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Homeopathy/Workshop.

On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, Daniel (talk) 10:08, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

I just wrote my response for the Arb Committee, but because this is my first time doing this, I just noticed that they have a 1,000 word limit. Due to all of the accusations against me, my response initially was slightly over 3,000 words, though I have edited it down to around 2,000 words, though probably several hundred of these words are links and/or diffs. Does the Arb Comm have any tolerance for submissions of greater than 1,000 words? Even then, I have so much more to say. DanaUllmanTalk 19:57, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
Your response should be a summary of the top points, without any need for evidence. A shorter presentation will work much better for you, because people will actually read it. You should move the evidence and extra materials to your section on the Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Homeopathy/Evidence page. Jehochman Talk 20:34, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
Now, I'm confused. I thought that my next response was on the Evidence page. My previous statement was already posted when the proposal for the Arb Comm was made. DanaUllmanTalk 21:02, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
Keep my advice in mind for next time. You can't really edit your statement after the case opens. Jehochman Talk 21:49, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Re:Important article needs help

I have made a start over my lunch break. So far the "Background" section as been rewritten, and appropriately referenced. The references took some time to locate, which is why the article was {{inuse}} for an hour. The rest of the article is going to be much trickier. It needs to be rebalanced towards to majority viewpoint (too much conspiracy stuff at present), and there are some structural changes that need to be made to make it more readable (tiny sections followed by huge sections at present) but the hardest thing will be locating sources. But if in doubt, unreferenced material may have to be removed. I expect this will take a few days to clean up, but perhaps some collaborative effort will speed this up somewhat! :) Fritzpoll (talk) 12:13, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

attempt of outing vanished user by IP

attempt [14], reverted by me[15]. Does this need oversight? --Enric Naval (talk) 22:27, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Notice it's an open Tor proxy, so it's probably the sockmaster going after Dana --Enric Naval (talk) 22:37, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Not an oversight issue, in my opinion. Jehochman Talk 14:05, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
OK, I see. Can you advice on the checkuser I asked here about a a possible sock of blocked user giving evidence on the arbitration case? --Enric Naval (talk) 17:32, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Rfa thanks

Thanks for supporting my recent request for adminship which was successful with 89 supports, 0 opposes, and 2 neutrals. Unfortunately all I can offer is this lame text thanks rather than some fancy-smancy thank-you spam template thingy. I was very pleased to receive such strong support and to hear so many nice comments from editors whom I respect. I’ll do my best with the tools, and if you ever see me going astray don’t hesitate to drop a note on my talk page. Thanks again for your support!--Bigtimepeace | talk | contribs 03:55, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

User:Xp54321

Thanks for the heads up on that one. I thought his editing pattern was a little... unusual. Best, Gwernol 23:25, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Thank You!!!

Thank you so much!Xp54321 (talk) 15:46, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Poison12346

Poison12346 is not another sockpuppet account.Like I said I'm past that.Xp54321 (talk) 16:00, 27 April 2008 (UTC)


Hi Jehochman,

Can you please tell me why you removed the external links on the Code 128 and Code 39 pages? I have reviewed the LinkSpam section of WP:EL and I can not see a reason why any of the sites in the external link could be seen as promoting their website.

Many thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sterlingguy (talk • contribs) 09:48, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, because they were put there to promote one or more businesses, and that's not what Wikipedia is for. GS1 is OK, though, because they are a notable organization and the link does not appear to be promotional. Jehochman Talk 10:12, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Miszabot

We have some problems with archiving at the talk page of Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed. Can you help us?--Filll (talk) 14:03, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

The bot doesn't like me so much either. Perhaps User:Misza can help. Jehochman Talk 15:10, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
It just started working again [16]. It looks like it correctly archived all threads it was supposed to archive (all threads with no posts younger than 3 days). --Enric Naval (talk) 16:41, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

I certainly do not know why it stopped working and why it started working again. Weird.--Filll (talk) 16:51, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Be nice to the bot and it will behave. Jehochman Talk 17:01, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
Now, now, stranger things did happen before, or was it after? Hmmm… Tachyonbursts (talk) 22:39, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
Strange things happen when moving faster than the speed of light. Jehochman Talk 23:39, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

User:Supergreenred

Supergreenred (talk · contribs) is asking for an unblock. Since Rafaelsfingers was unblocked with the agreement that he would only use one account, either Supergreenred is telling the truth in not being a sock, or Rafaelsfingers needs to be re-blocked. Cheers. -- Ned Scott 09:51, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

I have unblocked them. As originally noted, the block was for sock or meat puppetry. Without technical confirmation it is hard to tell which is the case. Meat puppetry can be resolved if the editors are put on notice, which they are now, and made to understand that there will be further consequences if they resume tag team edit warring. Jehochman Talk 13:22, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Edit to the archive

I would like to draw your attention to this edit to the archive of this discussion seems to have gone unnoticed. I would like to raise probation again, since the editor had been warned about being put on probation before. Thanks, --Domer48 (talk) 15:54, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Could you please check the time on this edit, and now check these .....edits. Thanks, --Domer48 (talk) 21:31, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
Please alert the IP. They may not have seen the action on their main talk page. Let's give it a day or two to sink in. For now, just revert and notify them of what's happened. Do this a few times. If they continue to ignore all warnings, then they will be out of here permanently. Jehochman Talk 22:28, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, --Domer48 (talk) 22:30, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Excuse me - I just noticed this. As Domer48 says, the comments I made to the SSP did seem to go unnoticed.. until Domer48 noticed them. My actual comments were not noticed though - only the fact that I had made them. I am apparently currently blocked for Sock Puppetry, despite there not having been sufficient dialogue - a decision which was made, by you, only yesterday - after I had attempted to address some of the accusations that have been made.
How can you have reached any kind of conclusion without having attempted to listen to the person being accused? I was not given any warning of this impending ban, and my attempt at addressing the situation and sorting it out was ignored. I'm left wondering what I was blocked for.. was it for editing an archived discussion, or was it for the allegation of Sock Puppetry?
As I said on the Setanta747 talk page, I don't understand why you haven't assumed good faith on this matter, and tried to help me, as I've obviously tried to address matters (albeit in a perhaps unconventional way). Your suggestions as to how to proceed would have been most welcome, especially given that you seem to know the system (as do some of the accusers).
Allegations of sock puppetry, gaming are wholly incorrect, while that may appear on the surface to be the case, and I am not being afforded an opportunity to address this. As you personally closed the case yesterday (ignoring the comments I had made), I'd like to request that you re-open the case for me.
Thanks in advance. --90.206.36.159 (talk) 03:09, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
It's been over four days, and not so much as a reply. This is not helpful. --90.206.36.177 (talk) 08:07, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Recent Behavior & Gmail

Excuse me, but I'd like your opinion on my recent edits and behavior. I'd also appreciate it if you could give your opinion on the whole 100MB vs. 500MB thing.It would be much appreciated.(There is a rfc but I'm trying to get as many editors as possible.It has also been agreed if there is no response 100MB will be used as the new update interval.Of course if the speed at which space is added changes the interval will be adjusted per consensus.)Xp54321 (talk) 02:09, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the update. Seems fine to me. Happy editing. Jehochman Talk 11:59, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Robert F. Kennedy assassination - cleanup complete

My final diff is here [17]. If you look at the talk page, you will see that I have highlighted some issues. I am still unhappy with the "Media coverage" section but I think the major problems with the article are resolved in this edition. I pessimistically await vandalism or OR, or other policy-violating material, but I felt it was sufficient for now to remove the tags at the top. Please review and check that it is good enough compared to the incarnation you were very concerned about. (the history is quite a fun read!) Fritzpoll (talk) 02:23, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

And the IPs are rolling back...[18]. I have reverted this on the basis of no discussion, but I will not be able to continue to do this without violating principles such as 3RR. Some advice would be helpful! Fritzpoll (talk) 12:39, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
I was only there to cleanup some ELs, but I'll add it to my watchlist again.Doug Weller (talk) 13:42, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
Thanks. Jehochman Talk 14:03, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
Fritz, there are three broad types of IP editor I see: 1/ readers and newcomers who fix minor errors, 2/ editors from other Wikipedias adding inter-wiki links, and 3/ bad actors seeking to hide their identity. At this point, we need to gather evidence to see if we are dealing with a puppetmaster. I think you should get additional editors involved to help establish a consensus version of the article. If the puppetmaster keeps fighting, they will eventually provide us with enough evidence to take action against them. To get more attention, an article content request for comment is probably better than running to WP:ANI. My experience with ANI is that it is watched by many administrators, but also by many trolls. Going there in a case like this is probably going to create needless drama. If you want to poke around in the article history, you may be able to form a hypothesis about the puppetmaster's identity. Once you find evidence, we can file a report at WP:SSP or even WP:RFCU. Keep me posted. Jehochman Talk 14:03, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
Aha, they already crossed the line. See Wikipedia:Requests for checkuser/Case/HistoricalAccuracyMatters. Jehochman Talk 19:30, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
Seesm you spotted it before I could - per the new account, I will monitor IP edits and compare them to the list at checkuser, and the edit style to that of the users in question Fritzpoll (talk) 17:39, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

User:Computermadgeek

I see you just blocked that guy, even as I was trying to give a good-faith answer of what I thought was a good-faith question about admin probation. Yet some editors accuse me of not following the WP:AGF guideline. 0:) Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 13:59, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

I think they are trolling, and they seem very likely to be a sock puppet, though that is not the reason for my block. A conversation with the user on their talk page is necessary to see if they are willing to contribute productively. If so, they can be unblocked. Jehochman Talk 14:02, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
What nonsense you admins have to deal with. All the more reason I wouldn't want to be one (and am suspicious of anyone who lobbies for the job). :) Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 14:11, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
It's not so bad. You could pass RFA easily. Jehochman Talk 14:17, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
Probably not so easily, as I have some history of contention, which is why there were questions raised about giving me rollback authority (which, by the way, I did not ask for, it was offered by an admin). But I appreciate your vote of confidence. :) Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 14:23, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
But you have not had any recent trouble. If you continue to keep clear, I think people will forgive any past matters, especially if a full year passes. Jehochman Talk 15:05, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
If, at some point, someone thinks I should be an admin, I would consider it. But I would not actively lobby for it. I think it's too much drudgery and not enough fun stuff. But I'm probably already in that mode now, as it is. :\ Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 17:57, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Name in vain

I've used your comment [19] at the arbcomm page. Thought I ought to warn you William M. Connolley (talk) 22:23, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Threatening vandal

Probably just spouting off, but I reported him [20] just in case. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 01:13, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Giovanni33

An Arbitration case in which you commented has been opened, and is located here. Please add any evidence you may wish the Arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Giovanni33/Evidence. Please submit your evidence within one week, if possible. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Giovanni33/Workshop.

On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, Anthøny 23:12, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Suspected sock puppets/Chris19910

I put an archive template on this because it looks like you've resolved it. I'm just double-checking with you. Shalom (Hello • Peace) 02:28, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Request to open this sock case

Jehochman
Thanks for taking action on this sock case. Now that the block on user CFW is lifted could you please open this report for editing? I want to add additional supporting evidences to it, e.g., this concern. Duty2love (talk) 16:30, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

We don't reopen reports. You can start a new one if you have new evidence. Just add "2nd" after the username when you name the page. Jehochman Talk 02:49, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Erik Moeller

While I have no strong feelings about "articleness" for this case, I believe your protection was out of process and not done according to any accepted policy or norms. There was nothing close to an edit war or three reverts. Therefore I am unprotecting the article, simply because the description you gave wasn't accurate. This does not preclude protecting it later for other reasons including a real edit war. Thanks. -- Fuzheado | Talk 23:26, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Well, I disagree with you. I think your unprotection was out of process and a violation of the principal that administrative actions should not be undone without discussion. If you look at the history of the page you will see many flip flops between redirection and an article within the last day. That, my friend, is edit warring. Edit warring is stopped by protection. Jehochman Talk 00:36, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
Also, this self-revert [21] happened while I was filling out the protection template, and I did not see it. In any case, given that edit warring has not resumed, we can just leave well enough alone. Next time you have a question about my actions, do talk to me first, unless there is a true emergency. Jehochman Talk 00:41, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
I'd hardly call a single anon user working on the article for 20 minutes, with one other user reverting to a redirect within those 20 minutes and another a few hours later (not counting the self-reverting IP), an edit war. Almost every article would be protected if we maintain that standard. Where were you in December/January? That's when protection actually would have made sense. Yet even though I don't agree with your reasoning, I don't mind the full protection, because I'm pretty sure any recreation of the article without using the talk page will just result in more reverts.--Atlan (talk) 10:11, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
Have you seen the highly controversial Valley Wag article? This is not a "normal" situation. There were three reverts back and forth. I felt no reason to wait for more. Jehochman Talk 11:20, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Just Wanted To Say

Just wanted to say I've reached over 500 edits and am now using Twinkle and Friendly to great sucess. Just reached 600 edits.:DXp54321 (talk) 23:35, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Do you remember User:Anacapa?

Hi Jehochman, do you remember our long lost friend User:Anacapa? Well he's back ban evading and he's using another IP User:128.111.95.38. This IP is a University of Sanata Barbara California IP, just like the majority of his other sock IPs, he's been trolling talk:feminism - pushing the same sources ('Spreading Misandry' by Nathanson and Young) and using the same uncivil rhetoric about the users who edit Feminism "you will find that clear logic is totally forbidden on this page and all others which 'gender'-as-female 'ginning' girls and girl-guys control." 'Gender-ginning' is as you will see from my old report page one of Anacapa's favorite terms. He's also made edits to Covert incest and Reproductive endocrinology and infertility[22] - in both cases these have been reverted. I've contacted the good faith user who replied to Anacapa on Talk:Feminism and I'll like your advice on whether or not that convo should be removed - I assume it should be as per WP:BAN--Cailil talk 11:43, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

I missed the fact that he also used IP 128.111.95.171 to comment to Talk:feminism. This IP is one that he has previously used and which was previously blocked as an Anacapa sock. The areas of interest are a match here too: Talk:Feminism, Shunning, Talk:Shunning‎, Mennonite and Talk:Antifeminism. And from a quick look at the history of Shunning it seems he's been using IP 128.111.97.148 too. These IPs have made new edits to these pages since May 2 2008 - I've reverted his main-space edits but I've left the talk-space comments for the moment--Cailil talk 12:17, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Oh in case there was any doubt that he's back IP 128.111.95.110 (yet another Univeristy of Santa Barbara California IP - previously blocked as an Anacapa sock) makes reference to how great the banned user (ref to Anacapa) was at Talk:shunninghere - this was back on March 3rd 2008--Cailil talk 12:31, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Could you have a chat with User:Alison (Checkuser) about this? Ask specifically for her to look at how many unrelated users are in this range, and if there would not be too much collateral damage, could we have a range block please. Jehochman Talk 13:50, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
Will do, and thanks for the quick reply--Cailil talk 14:00, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
Just left a note to Alison. Should I go ahead and remove the obvious Anacapa comments from talk pages or should I leave them?--Cailil talk 16:10, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
You can take them out with an edit summary like "Remove thread started by banned user". Jehochman Talk 17:10, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

(outdent) No reply from Alison would you mind dropping her a word on the matter? My wording might be confusing--Cailil talk 18:18, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Are you still an editor watching disruptions on Chiropractor?

If you are then would you please check into this before it gets way out of hand? [23] and [24]. I don't edit this article but I pop in and watch to see how things are going, which at this time the heat is rising unfortunatly. I don't know enough about chiropractor's to join in and I am trying to understand chiropractor more myself for personal reasons, which is why I watch it. I thought maybe you would be able to slow things down and restore WP:Civil, which I understand is hard to do on this page. I hope I am bringing this to the right editor, if not, my apologies. --CrohnieGalTalk 11:54, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Please ignore, someone took care of it, sorry for the inconvenience. [25] --CrohnieGalTalk 12:22, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
The editor was blocked for 3RR violation and not the disruption on the talk page. QuackGuru 12:34, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
Jehochman, where is the best place to report this.[26][27] This has been going on for quite sometime now. QuackGuru 16:12, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
It seems like mediation might help get the parties talking and working together. The articles seems well written and informative. Jehochman Talk 06:22, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
Some parts of the article are in extremely poor shape. Entire sections are missing such as the vanished Effectiveness section. There are a bunch of obsolete studies in the article. Newer 2000 and beyond (peer-reviewed) studies are available (along with the written NPOV cited text) but some editors prefer POV 20 year old studies. QuackGuru 06:33, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for your time, it does seem like the article is working well lately, the past few days. I think that the editors are 'talking' and doing a bit more listening to each other. As for meditation, I think that is an excellent idea. The only problem I see is that everyone has to agree to it, and I can't see all of them saying yes to mediation unfortunately. Maybe if the mediations rules were changed so that it is used by the majority who accept or reject would help utilize mediation better. Anyways, thank you for your time, --CrohnieGalTalk 13:06, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
I would request mediation anyways. The results are not binding. It's just a way to help people talk about disagreements without offending each other. Those who refuse to participate may identify themselves as disruptive influences. Jehochman Talk 14:11, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
Things are not working well lately in the past few days. Commenting on the talk page has not helped. QuackGuru 15:20, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
Here's the modified version, which QG is conveniently ignoring and showing an old diff. The diff immediately before the one he chose is worth noting, as it applied to principles in general, and was hopefully to be read by him so he'd learn something. He obviously didn't. His insistence on solo, bold editing that ignores consensus is quite disruptive in controversial articles. -- Fyslee / talk 06:21, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Erik Article

Protection was probably a decent thing to do, but going to arbitration is not procedure. Lock it, tell them to talk it out, unlock it, repeat rinse lather. :) Let the wiki process work a bit first, keep an eye on it, but don't go to arbcom that's supposed to be a last resort. -- Fuzheado | Talk 23:36, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Sure thing. Thank you for these kind words. Jehochman Talk 00:00, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Status Report

Subject: Mr. Xp54321's progress since last report. Date:5/9/08 6:05 PM PST Progress:

  • Mr. Xp has reached over 900 edits
  • Mr. Xp has not gotten into any trouble
  • Mr. Xp has learned to add userboxes
  • Mr. Xp has learned how to archive pages
  • Mr. Xp has reported multiple vandals on the appropriate pages
  • Mr. XP has put in multiple RFPPs some of which were granted
  • Mr. Xp has successfully achieved a peak EDP(Edits Per Day) of 200
  • Mr. XP has received a barnstar
  • Mr. Xp has successfully achieved a daily average of over 100 edits
  • Mr. Xp has achieved much and looks forward to a great time on Wikipedia

Signed: Xp54321 (talk) 01:15, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Fantastic! Jehochman Talk 02:39, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
Thank you very much. Signed: Xp54321 (talk) 02:44, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Rocketboom

You helped with the COI on the Rocketboom page a while back. The owner of the site recently created an account and is clearly unhappy with Wikipedia as a whole. Please have a peek at Wikipedia:Wikiquette_alerts#Rocketboom and the affected pages. Thanks! -Cleanr (talk) 07:45, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

I left a comment on the user's talk page, and on that thread. Thanks for the heads up. Jehochman Talk 15:25, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Problem with biases

Hi I got your message. I am not sure what to do. I have reported this Troll personally to Jimmy Wales and he said that he would have some experts look into it.

I never heard back but my perosanl page has been deleted and the troll Cleanr has been rediting the Rocketboom page.

Cleanr is annomonus and has made all negitive edits that I dont think are valid.

Will you please try to justify Cleanr for me? No one has been able to.

Also will you please try to explain why my edits are not valid? No one has been able to.

Thanks, just trying to get some help because right now, its just me and Cleanr.

I only respond to his negitive deletes and alterations.

Thanks for you help, its very frusterating because as you can imagine, its very likely that there would be a personal that would try to edit this article negitively, so why wont anyone look further into Cleanrs edits? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Andrewbaron (talk • contribs) 18:25, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Long overdue, but..

What a Brilliant Idea Barnstar
For that amazing tool I use every day, the Wikipedia Cite tool, I hereby award you the Brilliant Idea Barnstar.Steve Crossin (talk) (review) 03:09, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Realised I still hadn't come to thank you for making my editing so much easier with the invention of this tool. Steve Crossin (talk) (review) 03:09, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks! Jehochman Talk 14:02, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Further Anacapa

Further stuff from Anacapa[28]. Anything we can do?--Cailil talk 10:50, 13 May 2008 (UTC) PS we probably should delete or semi-protect User:Cailil/Complex vandalism on feminism and gender studies related articles - I'll take your advice on which to do. But in light of the fact that Anacapa is back we may need it again--Cailil talk 11:15, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

I've protected the page and blocked the IP. Can you give me a list of IPs used by Anacapa? I'll set up a soft rangeblock. That should stop him without too much collateral damage. Jehochman Talk 14:06, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Here's the list of current IPs being used:

This is the one you just blocked

In this collapsed box are the ones from the same range but have been disused for months

Should we drop the IT dept. of UCSB (where these all originate) a line about abuse of their IPs?--Cailil talk 15:29, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

I've placed a range block. Let's see if he gives up, or tries other tricks. Jehochman Talk 17:35, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

User:Raasukutty sock of User:mudaliar

Hi Jehochman,

I'd like to bring to your notice, the edits of User:Raasukutty in the article Devadasi. I think he is a sock of User:mudaliar. Please see [29]. Can you please take care of the situation?

MarkPC (talk) 17:32, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Done. Jehochman Talk 19:02, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
Hi Jehochman, Another sock User:KenMarks of User:mudaliar is doing the reverts now. Please I think the article needs to be semi-protected. MarkPC (talk) 11:45, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
Also done.Jehochman Talk 13:20, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Robert F. Kennedy assassination - all seems calm

I'm quite surprised, but nothing of note seems to be happening at this article at the moment. The content disputes were minor and easily remedied on the talk page, and there is nothing but the occasional little bit of vandalism - just thought I'd let you know so that you didn't think I'd forgotten! Thinking of trying to get this up to GA soon - what do you think of it? Fritzpoll (talk) 19:57, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Good idea! Jehochman Talk 21:58, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

CompScientist

I stumbled on the discussions of the term 'supercar' from the nissan gtr page and the resulting ban of user CompScientist. it seems that every request attempt to be unblocked is met with the same basic reason, regardless of the quality (if you will) of his stated request. one of the central beauties of wikipedia is that it's open to virtually everyone, preventing small groups and individuals from controlling public information. i make no judgments on his or any of his edit-warring-enemies in regards to their behavior, and am not interested in taking personal sides. Neither am i suggesting any particular action to be done. rather, i ask that you re-review the situation. the remarks left by admins seem a bit redundant, as if i could predict what the next denial will say. the variables are not important, just the idea of any heated discussions in the future to be easily resolved by perma-bans. thanks. Aceholiday (talk) 23:57, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Chiropractic

Are you still watching over this? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 04:58, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Never was, but how can I help? Jehochman Talk 11:13, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I now realize I mixed up Homeopathy and Chiropractic (similar deal there). See Eubulides (talk · contribs) talk page; I haven't followed the article, but it appears he's getting beaten up over there, and I know him to be a courteous, responsible, accurate and ethical editor. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:57, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, you awful character attacker :-)) SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:33, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
Indeed ;-) The irony (and accuracy!) of his edit summary is that he deleted his own comments, which fit his own edit summary and was a massive assumption of bad faith and personal attack against you and other editors (conspiracy theories). He doesn't seem to have learned from his blocking that his accusations of others seem to fit other's perceptions of himself. If he realized that he isn't so innocent, then he might stop pointing fingers and start trying to actually create an encyclopedia that tells the whole story about chiropractic, past and present, not some updated and whitewashed version. He stated he'd delete the section after 24 hours, but did it already after 4+ hours. His claim to be a representative of other editors (actually mostly only the chiropractors) doesn't account for the fact that some other editors, myself included, generally avoid or severely limit participation on the chiropractic article and talk page because of his domination of it for some time now. The bossy, demanding, and attacking atmosphere (his way or not at all) is very oppressive. He took an excellent and stable article largely created by collaborations with Dematt (a chiropractor who deserves to be an admin), and started to recreate it into his own version of how it should look, and it's been one long series of edit wars over a very unstable article since then. Eubulides has been the only one to really dare to take him on, and he can't stand it. -- Fyslee / talk 21:57, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
Ah, thanks for the nutshell version, Fyslee. I still haven't read the talk page, but since I know what kind of editor Eubulides is, I'm not surprised at what you're saying. I came to this issue simply because I saw a case of WP:DTTR on Eubulides' talk page. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 22:07, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
Of course there's always 2 sides to every story. So the games continue. Sigh. Fyslee, I can always change my mind, no? I mean, I recently got blocked on a technicality and took it like a man for a week with no request for unblocking. I found Jehochmans "warning" to be in poor taste, so I didn't want it to be there for 24 hours. And despite your insinuations, I can easily find 5 editors who severely disagree with Eubulides as well. So to dump this all on me is a very bogus move, but it shouldn't come to as a surprise that rather than bring any concerns to me, you would come to an admins page and canvass. Have you done this before, specifically for me, Fyslee? I wonder if I might have a few diffs stored. Point being, don't cast stones when you live in glass houses. Also, the simple fact is, before I came along chiropractic had about 20 citations and was of relatively poor quality. Now, I don't take credit for the majority of the changes since Jan/08 but I can make a strong argue that I was a catalyst for change. It's always difficult when dealing with "controversial" (I think there is way more hype that is being drummed up to manufacture controversy). And, lastly, Fyslee, you cannot shake off the fact that you are still run an anti-chiropractic website that essentially states the profession should be blown up. I've heard your argument that the website is being "hosted for free" and you haven't touched it for "years" but nonetheless, these types of situations make it difficult to think you've truly disavowed those views. And,
SandyGeorgia, his holiness doesn't walk on water. Eubulides is not infalliable and I can tell you that myself, User:DigitalC, User:Dematt, User:SmithBlue], User:DoctorIsIn, User:Levine2112 specifically at chiropractic have questioned the tactics used by Eubulides. Even Dematt, Fyslee, said that Eubulides has "cherry picked" the data and writes with a "negative tone". Various editors, over the past 4 months has said the same thing. I'm more direct in my assessments, but WP:SPADE comes into play. Am I suggesting that Eubulides is not a good overall contributor to the project? Heavens, no. He has done excellent work, especially in articles that likely represents his area of expertise. However, I can 100% say with utmost confidence that his collaborative skills at chiropractic leave much to be desired. Fyslee projects me as some kind of beast, but that's incorrect. Besides Eubulides, QuackGuru and Mccready (and to a limited extent Orangemarlin) I've had no problems collaborating with anyone. Fyslee, if I get rebuked by Dematt I might consider your comments above valid, but unfortunately, it seems like you're just tossing gasoline into the fire. Addendum: Here is an example of the highly partisan, non-collaborative, bossy, oppresive (what other adjectives were used?) approach that I employ. I hope you can all see my proposal for need for a criticism section at chiropractic. I hope this diff sheds some light on the reality of the situation. CorticoSpinal (talk) 00:30, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

CorticoSpinal (talk) 00:09, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

No, here is an example of the highly partisan, non-collaborative, bossy, oppressive approach that you employ. Sorry to butt in Jehochman, best wishes, Jefffire (talk) 08:07, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
A classic technique by skeptics is to present things out of context in hopes of discrediting their opposition. Such straw man fallacies are used regularly. Here is the whole thread in context (it's not long) so you can see the discussion and my comments in its entirety. Note: CynRN is a veterinary chiropractic skeptic who is a great example of an editor working collaboratively with her an editor who shares a differing view. Jefffire could learn a lesson or 2 from her. CorticoSpinal (talk) 17:03, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
A direct difference to one of your own edits is a "straw man"? Yes folks, you see what we have to deal with. Jefffire (talk) 19:23, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
This is my last edit on this page, but I felt I needed to clarify for Jefffire. Taking one "direct difference" and presenting out of context is a typical strategy used in straw man arguments. Yes folks, you see what we have to deal with?  ;) Over and out. PS: Jonathan, we are at mediation presently; I am deferring to User:Dematt which should make all parties happy (myself included). Cheers. CorticoSpinal (talk) 16:00, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

On Adding Cla68

I'm curious, has anyone ever been the subject of two concurrent WP:RFArbs at the same time? I'm not trying to cause trouble, I just worry that Cla68 already has his hands full dealing with what is already (most likely) a contentious case without having to be involved in a second one at the same time. --Dragon695 (talk) 22:45, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

I was the subject of two arbitrations where one started the day after the other closed. By the way, I like Cla68. This case is going to merge with the other, based on the comments of the arbitrators. Folks on both sides need to let bygones be bygones and avoid antagonizing each other. Jehochman Talk 22:50, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
Oh, no no, I wasn't doubting your good faith. FWIW, I heartily agree with your sentiments about his RFA last year. It's just that, for better or for worse, SV and Guy have huge cliques and undoubtedly this is going to raise the ire of many members of said cliques. And I suppose the anti-clique clique is also going to be up in arms. It would be nice if things could be resolved in an amicable way, somehow... --Dragon695 (talk) 03:48, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
It is entirely possible that things can be resolved amicably. People need to drop their weapons and talk with each other about their differences of opinion instead of seeking allies to form a larger gang that can overpower the other side. Jehochman Talk 08:31, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Reconsider?

Jonathan, I really don't think this remark[30] is helpful. Yes, there was the usual Slim/Crum/Jay team. But there were lots of other good and constructive editors who opposed, and lumping them wholesale into a "clique" isn't appropriate. FWIW my view is that this whole mess has been blown way out of proportion. Maybe there should be some general admonishments (toward both sides) but there has been too many rancorous comments and calls for extreme action. Raymond Arritt (talk) 04:44, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

You'll note that SV was the first oppose, and her posse also opposed. A bunch of other editors snowballed onto that core. That was the intended result. Tanking somebody's RFA is a good way to produce the situation that resulted. Forming gangs in order to grab power is wrong and must be discouraged, whether the intentions are nobel, or not. Jehochman Talk 12:53, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
Not to mention the fact that she personally requested that said RFA be extended for that exact purpose. Need we forget what happened to poor Gracenotes as well? What she did was a travesty, by extending her policy dispute into RFA for the better part of 2007, we were denied a number of highly qualified administrators who could think critically. Just because she supports your anti-ID and anti-psuedoscience crusade (a laudable goal I generally support) does not mean she gets a free pass when it comes to be disruptive in other ways. --Dragon695 (talk) 15:18, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
Could I ask you to read what I actually wrote? My concern is not with your criticism of SV, but with lumping 31 editors into a "clique." I fully agree with your last sentence. And I don't think Cla68 should get a free pass either. Raymond Arritt (talk) 15:23, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
Thank you both. I have clarified and reinforced my evidence. Jehochman Talk 17:21, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Crystal skull

Any chance of semi-protecting this article? Not surprisingly it is getting a lot of drive-by vandalism, and I think semi-protection would stop a lot of it. Thanks Doug Weller (talk) 17:59, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

It is as you say. Done. Jehochman Talk 00:54, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Sockpuppetry by User:Xp54321

Hi, Jehochman. I noticed that you created the request for checkuser for User:Xp54321. This user seems abusing multiple accounts again. You might be interested that they created an RFA and voted to support themselves with User:Sman.grimtuesday and User:71.182.108.14. I am not familiar with submitting requests for checkuser, so I am asking you to take a look at this and submit it if you believe that this is sockpuppetry/meatpuppetry. Thanks, Cunard (talk) 02:27, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Run checkuser. Please. I'm actually begging you. I think some guy just wandered along and decided to vote. Not socks. I hate the past. <sigh>Xp54321 (Vandals Beware!!!,Contribs) 02:32, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Nevermind. User:Metros has started the sockpuppetry page. Cunard (talk) 02:55, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Talk:Allegations of state terrorism by the United States

I think we are thinking along similar lines there. You may wish to review Talk:List of events named massacres/Archive 5 and Talk:List of events named massacres/Archive 6. I managed to propose and enforce a set of fixed criteria, the article survived AfD, and User:BrownHairedGirl closed with a rename which seems to have enforced relative peace and stability on the article since, as far as I am aware. This is an analogy and not a strict comparison, but a lot of the group dynamics are comparable. Question; if we were to centralize debate on renaming all the "terrorism" articles, where would be the best place to centralize it? --John (talk) 05:54, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

We could go to the village pump or we could start an AfD proposing to split or rename the entire series of "Allegations of terrorism by" articles. We would put forward maybe two or three different naming conventions and let the participants say which they prefer and why. Jehochman Talk 17:48, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
That makes sense. I quite liked Kendrick's suggestion that we set up a dedicated group to discuss the matter. What do you think? This group might be worth asking too. --John (talk) 18:53, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
Yes. We need to have a good, long discussion about all the subtleties of the issue. The more people get involved in talking and thinking about this, the better. Jehochman Talk 00:49, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Centralized discussion/Terrorism

All set. Help me think up a cool shortcut? WP:TERROR, WP:TERRORISM, and WP:TERRORIST are all taken. -- Kendrick7talk 01:32, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

I know -- WP:CENTER. -- Kendrick7talk 02:46, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
WP:CD/T. Jehochman Talk 03:04, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Your input requested

I know that you are fairly policy-oriented, and wanted to make sure that you noticed my question here.Kww (talk) 18:58, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Discussion in which you are named

Just FYI, you've been mentioned at Talk:Keith_Henson#Category:American_criminals. dihydrogen monoxide (H2O) 05:15, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

JzG RFAR merged with Cla68-FM-SV case

Per the arb vote here the RFAR on User:JzG is now merged with this case and he is a named party. Also see my case disposition notes there. — Rlevse • Talk • 21:13, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Supergreenred

FYI he returned to the Allegations article and reverted three times before the page was locked - I think he's just spat on your good faith in unblocking him. John Smith's (talk) 08:23, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Add to the arbitration case evidence. Unblocking has the benefit of allowing a user to show their true colors beyond any doubt.Jehochman Talk 12:12, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

An early thank you

Hi Jehochman - my RfA closed today, successfully. I wanted to thank you for your support, both directly and in the discussions within the RfA, and also for the coaching. I know we didn't do a huge amount together, but what we did do exposed me to several different elements of Wikipedia that I wasn't aware of, and ultimately helped me to focus on what I enjoy doing. Hopefully I will find the admin tools useful in this regard! Best wishes Fritzpoll (talk) 14:56, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

I am glad it worked out. Stay away from WP:ANI. Start with WP:CSD, and then move to WP:RFPP. The block button should only be used when absolutely sure. It always amazes me when admins request a block review. If you ever feel any doubts about blocking somebody, better not to. Jehochman Talk 18:50, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
Thank you for the advice - I shall take it on board Fritzpoll (talk) 19:35, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Workshop - C68-FM-SV

Please confirm if you're withdrawing your proposed remedy 1, so it may be removed. Ncmvocalist (talk) 17:19, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Please don't act as a clerk. There are official clerks who will ask me if any clarifications are needed. Jehochman Talk 22:48, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Giovanni33 ArbCom

Hi Jehochman, I know you've been fairly convinced by the evidence of sock and/or meatpuppetry in the Giovanni33 ArbCom case, but partly because of that and partly because you have some experience evaluating sockpuppetry in general (and these accounts in particular) I just wanted to ask if you might take some time to have a look at a new section of evidence I added. Thanks!--Bigtimepeace | talk | contribs 07:05, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Hi Jehochman. I have a question for you regarding my arbcom case. I've asked it before on the case pages but you may have missed it. This is in regards to your statement that while before you thought I was behind the puppets, you changed your mind to block me citing that "several admins" wrote to you and that this caused significant doubt on your part. I understand if the admins and the evidence that they may have presented are private in nature, and I do not know if they have written directly to arbcom nor not. However, if you have evidence which caused you to have significant doubt over the accusations I currently face in arbcom, it certainly is relevant and I would like to make sure that this evidence is considered by the committee. Therefore, can you relay this information to them, in one form or another (e-mail or by posting it to evidence page?) Thanks.Giovanni33 (talk) 20:43, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

I received an opinion from at least one other admin about the editing patterns of your account and the others, and decided to reverse my block. It is still my opinion that these other editors and yourself may be engaged in meat puppetry, perhaps unintentionally. As I have said before, if you would recognize the obvious problem with the editing patterns, and vow to make sure this pattern does not repeat, that would go a long way towards easing my concerns. Jehochman Talk 23:41, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
Yes, I vow exactly that, and just need a mentor to help me to see when such patterns arise. I looks like an admin, Ryan, has already volunteered to fill the role. I put forward the remedy on my case that attempts to stipulate such a formalized solution to address these concerns. Will you support that proposal? Thanks.Giovanni33 (talk) 23:54, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I can support that. Jehochman Talk 00:09, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
Thanks! I think it has a good chance of gaining enough support to be ratified.Giovanni33 (talk) 00:12, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

User:Zoporific tag

Hi! I was browsing through something else (the "Wikipedia effect", you know!) and happened across User:Zoporific and User:Snocrates, who apparently used to share a room and computer, and went through a sock-abuse discussion. I'm unclear whether the final opinion was that they were socks or genuinely separate, but my only real concern is that the tag on User:Zoporific is inaccurate as he's not blocked. If it's intended that he be blocked then someone should do that, otherwise is there some more accurate tag I should change it to? Many thanks! --tiny plastic Grey Knight ⊖ 10:10, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

I am not sure, but will take a look when I have time. Jehochman Talk 23:48, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Arb followup

Je, you followed Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Sadi Carnot more closely than I did. My first encounter with Sadi Carnot (talk · contribs) was over the Extra-Long Article Committee, and there has been some fairly persistent perseveration over at WP:SIZE. Can you peek in at this? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 00:12, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Hi. Can you refer me to Sadi's site. Is this it? [31] Mrshaba (talk) 02:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
Also, this might sound weird but did Sadi push the idea that mankind will soon be living in space colonies? Mrshaba (talk) 02:12, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
In my opinion, this is not Sadi Carnot. If the new editor is causing disruption, we can deal with that directly. Jehochman Talk 22:21, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
Thanks, Je; not sure he's causing disruption, just a lot of work. No one else is really paying attention, AFAICT. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 22:22, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
Hello Jehochman. I've been dealing with this user (199.125.109.xxx, Apteva, Oakwillow) for about a year on the solar energy page. It seems as though he's experimenting with how much he can get away with. Rfc PicturesOngoing image issue Any advice? Mrshaba (talk) 21:19, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, but inner warning lights are still saying something is amiss here. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:20, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

It very well could be that something is amiss, but this user does not exhibit the content objectives of Sadi Carnot. Jehochman Talk 02:24, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Old issue same problem

Hi Jehochman, sorry to bug you but User:Caesarjbsquitti is soapboxing again. Recently he was formally topic-banned from 9/11 articles for soapboxing about conspiracy theories[32]. However that is neither the focus nor extent of his soapboxing. If you remember in November 2007 I raised concerns about this same behaviour on Talk:Feminism and left you a note here (you can see the old ANI thread here).

I also raised the subsequent problems with Haemo - who becuase they were involved in an article on the list preferred to recuse from dealing with it[33].

Most recently Caesarjbsquitti multi-posted a peice about sexism against men in to Sexism, Violence against women and Domestic violence. Originally there were OR problems on his post to the 'Sexism' article[34] but he subsequently ironed that out reverting my removal of his OR and synthestis (but marked his revert as "minor"[35]). He also added the same text to the 'Domestic Violence' article (also marking the addition of a new section as "minor" [36]) and then to the 'Violence against women' article[37].

I raised concerns about how the material was then added to a new criticism section at Talk:Violence_against_women and how it violated WP:NOR and WP:COAT (detailed here). This his response[38].

Is this soapboxing further tendentious behaviour in light of the fact that this user has been blocked, topic banned and previously warned for such behaviour and if so what remedy would be appropriate?--Cailil talk 22:43, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Also as I raised it with Haemo - there may be an issue with the userpage User:Caesarjbsquitti - soapbox on his theories about half-truths and borders on being an ad for his self-published book--Cailil talk 22:46, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

PS see this post to Talk:Domestic violence. Also a quick FYI - this user was warned about this same behaviour in August 2006[39]--Cailil talk 23:01, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

I do not want to be seen as retaliating against this editor for their 9/11 stance. Could you take this to another administrator, perhaps User:Fritzpoll? Jehochman Talk 13:03, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Question

What gives you the authority to remove other people's comments from user Talk pages? --Jagz (talk) 04:58, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

On your own talk page I left helpful advice about how to raise objections to somebody's possible request for adminship. Two ideas: 1/ if you want to oppose, state reasons. 2/ RFA is the proper venue for this discussion. Chiming in on a discussion at the user's talk page can be perceived as disruptive or an attempt at intimidation. Regards, Jehochman Talk 21:34, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Jehochman, If you've got a moment, could you look at Atropa belladonna and its talkpage? Some attention by an uninvolved editor might help. --Akhilleus (talk) 02:53, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

WPCITE

Any chance of an update for Firefox 3.0? The Add-on dialog for the new version is rejecting the XPI as incompatible. -- Scjessey (talk) 02:00, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

I'll give it a go. Might take a week or two. Jehochman Talk 02:44, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
That's awesome, thank you. -- Scjessey (talk) 13:08, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Yeah this would be awesome. I have gotten so used to this tool that if it's not compatible I think I'll have to go back to the old Firefox.  :) Cirt (talk) 06:12, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Davkal socks

Hello Jehochman. Could you contribute any thoughts over at Wikipedia:Suspected sock puppets/Davkal (5th nomination)? I see you have blocked the *.243 IP as a Davkal sock. If you know his behavioral pattern, that might justify blocking *.109 as well. EdJohnston (talk) 18:49, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Xiutwel and 9/11

Hey Jehochman, check out the section entitled hello on my talk page and inform me at User:Redmarkviolinist/Talkpage2 on how I dealt with the questions that Xiutwel asked me. Cheers, ṜέđṃάяķvюĨїήīṣŢ Drop me a lineReview Me! 18:40, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Featured article review

Search engine optimization has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here. Pyrospirit (talk · contribs) 23:10, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for reviewing the sockpuppetry case, although sadly it won't reverse the damage it has done. The retired user burnt his bridges when he resulted to abuse. Thanks anway! = ) --Cameron* 15:27, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Please accept my apologies to you

First, for circumventing a block - you have my word that I will not do this again. I've read your profile page, checked your edits, and you seem to me someone who is a tribute to Wikipedia, and for that, I apologize for my untoward behavior, and any imposition I've put on you. Please be assured that I have never harmed any living thing in my life, and have no intention to. There is no threat, explicit or implied, in anything I've said to AnotherSolipsist. I was simply jerking his chain, because an independent watchdog group watches his edits, and I think he's a danger to the credibililty of Wikipedia. If you look at his edits on such things as Pedophilia you will see he is a very clever POV artist, and the source of a lot of misinformation. However, none of this really matters anymore, as I'm so disgusted with this project that I've 4 years of time and effort into, that I want nothing to do with it anymore. I wish you the best of luck, however, in making Wikipedia better with your obvious respect for the principles that made this website great at one time. I ask you one favor, if you feel inclined to do this for me. Please just leave my user page alone now. I get the point. Just leave Googie Man be, and I'll move on. Best, the former editor Googie Man. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.73.197.194 (talk) 21:32, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Okay. If you come back as a new account and don't cause any problems, and stay away from past conflicts, nobody is likely to make anything of it. I will keep an eye on any POV pushers I encounter. Jehochman Talk 22:35, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
If I am correct, most administrators are aware of this group. Bear in mind that the group is notorious for their tendency to provoke, inability to fact check, and are currently being sued for this. It's probably best not to even mention them, so I wont go further. forestPIG 23:03, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

A diff that you requested

[40] forestPIG 22:57, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Suspected sock puppets/Fonez4mii

The Defender of the Wiki Barnstar
For reversing the decision on Wikipedia:Suspected sock puppets/Fonez4mii I had almost lost faith when nothing was getting done about this. Barryob (Contribs) (Talk) 17:28, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
Thank you sincerely for reviewing the case. However, Fonez' two latest comments I believe show that he still has not accepted the fact that he used a sock to mislead others, and as long as that continues we will not get anywhere. He is now, in fact, gloating at the fact that he hasn't been blocked. ([41] and [42].) --Schcamboaon scéal? 18:27, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
Don't suggest something so ridiculous. Neither of those diffs suggest I was gloating that I had not been blocked. One user said that "justice had been done", and I said - yes it had, since I had not been blocked. Hardly gloating. If I were to gloat, an example would be "haha! I'm not blocked. you hate that!", etc. And I did not use the sock to mislead others. I am not going to say I did something I didn't. --fone4me 18:43, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
No admissions or denials are required. Be clear to all concerned who's doing the editing, and there will be fewer problems. One user, one account is fair. Jehochman Talk 21:06, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Barryob courteously notified me that my decision was reversed. Let me just explain what happened on my end. I looked at the list of suspected sockpuppets at the top of the page, then I skipped to the checkuser results, and I saw that Wikipiere was not Fonez4mii, so that ruled out the possibility of multiple accounts stacking consensus, and I didn't see a problem with the anonymous edits. Jehochman's diff number 7 on the SSP [43] showed that User:Fone4My was a disruptive sockpuppet of Fonez4mii. I had been unaware of that, and had I known, I would not have closed the sockpuppet case the way I did. I hope those of you who needed to work overtime because of my lack of awareness will forgive me for it. With the volume of workload I handle at SSP, a mistake of this type is almost impossible to prevent, so I can only apologize and try to be more careful in the future. Yechiel (Shalom) 22:19, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Wait a second, Fonez4mii is just a signature but not a real username, and redirects to User:Fone4My. So I'm still trying to figure out what my mistake was. Yechiel (Shalom) 22:25, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
He eventually admitted to using the IP address. There were multiple diffs showing himself attempting to pass off the IP as a separate user. That was the problem. Don't worry about it too much! Jehochman Talk 22:29, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, I just noticed that. It wasn't perfectly obvious from the presentation of the case, but I've reviewed a good chunk of it just now, and I can see how pretending the IP was a separate user violated policy. I have seen at least one similar case in the recent past. I didn't realize that Fonez4mii, by admitting the IP was his, was deflecting attention from the fact that he used the IP to stack consensus.
I'm going to chalk this one up to the length of the discussion. It's true I didn't read all of it, and I still haven't, but it must be remembered that I'm a volunteer, and I do this for fun, and though I take SSP cases seriously, I can't avoid every possible pitfall. Yechiel (Shalom) 22:40, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
Don't worry about it. Thanks for your input in any case. --Schcamboaon scéal? 04:56, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
Please can I point out that I never had the intention of deceiving anyone with the IP, and I only originally got logged out by accident, at which point I engaged in conversation with User:GoodDay on my IP talkpage. Then, in order to get back to this conversation, I kept logging back out to get to my IP talkpage. I then sometimes didn't log back in for the main discussion on the Scotland article.
I promise I had not intentions to deceive anyone. I apologize for not making it clearer that I was one person, but I didn't see it as a problem at the time, since I didn't think anyone would assume I was two different people, which apparently some did.
Ps, thanks for reverting the vandalism from my page.
--fone4me 16:32, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Thank you.

Hello Jehcohman,

Thank you for your help on improving the Big Valley Fishing vessel article.

--Grandscribe (talk) 10:34, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

I like shipwreck articles! Jehochman Talk 13:05, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Maybe I misunderstood the process...

A checkuser just had said the case didn't need looking into, heh... Thatcher suggested it be listed as a normal sockpuppetry case, but that would be an exercise in futility because we definitely know those are sockpuppets, it's painfully obvious. The point was that the guy looked like he was going to be really persistent at first, so I wanted to explore whether a rangeblock would be feasible. But he went away, so it's a moot point now.

So... I should have just left a comment to that effect then? I'm just trying to understand what the right process is if the checkuser says, "Take it elsewhere," and I'm like, "Enh, nevermind."  :) --Jaysweet (talk) 18:17, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Yes. Leave a comment retracting the request and state a reason if you like. Maybe somebody else will see something that you missed, and then they'll have a chance to comment too. Jehochman Talk 18:32, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
I was hesitant to do this right after my error yesterday at WP:RFCU -- but I think in this case it should be uncontroversial. (Note that in addition to being severely malformed, it does not even list any suspected socks... heh...) What do you think? Was that removal also out of process, or is that okay since this is a malformed (and also bad faith) report? --Jaysweet (talk) 15:55, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

possible sockpuppet of Atari400, 71.107.84.105

I think I may have come across a sockpuppet of User:Atari400.

This edit [44] lead me to my accusation, along with the fact that many of this IPs edits seem to be similar to those of Atari's. The IP is hesitant to Afghanistan being considered South Asian [45]. Atari has made similar pages many, many times. Their edits also coincide with Atari's interests as per his userboxes [46]. They both have edited regarding slave trade, Middle Eastern military, and various Middle Eastern and Central Asia articles. Thegreyanomaly (talk) 00:48, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Atari400 did not retire, he was flat out banned

[47] 71.107.70.47 is the same as 71.107.84.105. 71.107.84.105 changed it to retire too. He did not retire. He was banned for being a sockpuppet. Atari400 was caught with a sock puppet before on Template:Countries of the Indosphere, which is now deleted. Can something be done with Atari and his socks? Thegreyanomaly (talk) 20:08, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

  • Your evidence is convincing. These are obvious socks. It has come to my attention that these are withing an IP range used by Grawp. Perhaps there is a connection. Jehochman Talk 08:16, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

RFCU FT2

Two points, and I hope you don't take offense at these:

  1. The RFCU had already been done by Alison, who found that the account was not compromised.
  2. I disagree with the idea embodied by your edit summary (ArbCom is capable of policing themselves.).

That said, thanks for your RFCU work. Regards, Antelantalk 23:30, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

After your last message

Another occurrence Antelantalk 01:59, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Yeah. I will let another admin place the block that seems inevitable here. Jehochman Talk 02:06, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
Understood. I placed a message on their talk page that sort of elaborates the preferred process (namely, the use of talk pages) in the hopes that this person doesn't have to be blocked at their first introduction to WP... Here's to hoping they will take it to heart. Antelantalk 02:07, 28 June 2008 (UTC)


Dear Jehochman,

Sorry about the last upset about editing the Lyme page. I made the mistake of deleting a paragraph which made a sweeping statement that was not backed up by a reference (that 9 of 19 web sites were..). I should have modified it rather than deleted it.

I added in several carefully and moderately worded worded statements about the 'other side' in the Lyme debate (supporting the idea that chronic Lyme infection might actually exist, and pointing out that the infectious Diseases Society of America (IDSA) came in for some pretty heavy criticism for excluding academic opinion from its panels... only to find them systematically blocked out within minutes by someone who reverted them to the original form. The site seems to have been hijacked by some partisan, who refuses to let the opposite side state their view in any objective way. It is unfortunately just true to the IDSA way of doing things (sigh).

Is there any way we can have some moderator on this, someone not from either camp who makes the decision? I am an academic biologist (at Rutgers University) and I can I am sure find such a person. The page is just not 'working' at present. It has become a propaganda tool for one side. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Foundinkualalumpur (talk • contribs) 19:04, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Here is a fairly obvious news flash: the moderators and outside editors already involved on the article are not from either camp. The only "partisans" at work are Shine a lite et al, and the reason that everyone is coming down on them is not because they're members of the "Steere camp", but because an obvious, glaring, and egregious abuse of Wikipedia is taking place. MastCell Talk 20:02, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
Let's continue any discussions on the article talk page. I am interested to improve the quality of this important article, but I don't have any real opinion on who is "right" or "wrong" in the controversy. I live in the very center of Lyme disease country, and carry tweezers in my pocket at all times for removing ticks from my kids and pets. This happens several times per year. Jehochman Talk 22:26, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

When the redlinked conspiracy theorists are ready to settle in and conform to Wiki policies and guidelines, they may find I'll be sympathetic to working in due weight discussion of chronic Lyme, providing they can provide reliable peer-reviewed sources and will accept due weight for the non-mainstream theories. The last time I checked, my doctors (Jones, Fallon and Phillips) certainly aren't in the "Steere camp", but we're not going to make any progress on the article as long as it's being used for advocacy purposes. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 23:44, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Re: My RFA

That's OK, sir, even I have doubts about my RFA... God Bless and tanks for the comments... Blake Gripling (talk) 00:15, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

SarekOfVulcan RFA

Thank you for !voting on my RfA. If you supported, I'll make sure your confidence is not misplaced; if you opposed, I'll take your criticism into account and try to adjust my behavior accordingly.

See you around the wiki!--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 00:12, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Sockpuppetry of Fone4My

You reopened a sock puppet investigation, and then took some measures against User:Fonez4mii, here, but since then, new evidence has come to light here, though you need to read down the page a bit, as the two cases are intertwined a little. As a result of this, I have reviewed the evidence on request by other users, and reached a decision to indefinitely block User:Fone4My with the reasons given in User talk:Fone4My#Sockpuppetry (second section). Since you had taken previous action, I wanted to let you know of this, as the two situations follow on from one another, though are different.  DDStretch  (talk) 17:02, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

G'day J Hoch...

Hope you're good... you may recall that shortly before (another) one of my indef. blocks last year, we began a conversation about entering into a dialog about my editing and stuff like that - I came to you then because I've noticed you around the place, and always found your posts thoughtful and helpful (even when I disagree with them) - and it's in the same spirit that I thought I'd point this page out to you, and ask for your input / advice. cheers, Privatemusings (talk) 03:08, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

  1. What is your name?
  2. What is your quest?
  3. What is your favorite color?

Jehochman Talk 03:12, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (Image:Baidu-serp.jpg)

Thanks for uploading Image:Baidu-serp.jpg. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that all non-free media not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. BJBot (talk) 05:20, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

RfA page

Just dropping a line. Durova's opened Wikipedia:Requests_for_adminship/Cailil--Cailil talk 12:14, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Aye, I posted my opinion and then noticed that the RFA was not transcluded, so I took care of that. The recent trend towards multiple co-noms seems excessively bureaucratic to me, so I have stated my opinions in the support section. Good luck; Try not to watch it too much. During my RFA I polished gamma ray burst to WP:GA status and wrote two WP:DYKs to keep my mind on other things. Jehochman Talk 14:23, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

True, but...

Well, yeah, it's easy to get along with people when there's mutual respect. Do you have any insight on how to deal with the opposite situation? Or are other people just duffers ;) ? Mackensen (talk) 18:19, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Being nice to somebody who does not respect you can pay great dividends. They might befriend you, or if they are cynical, they will wonder what you are planning and the feelings of unease will cause them to avoid you. Giano befriended me after I helped proof read Queluz National Palace. Some of the kids who serve or have served on the Committee may know a lot about wiki, but they still have much to learn about life. (I am about 40.) Jehochman Talk 01:13, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Giovanni33 puppeting again

I thought you may want to look at this checkuser case, given that you blocked and then unblocked Giovanni for puppeting. Note that Ratatoui has been confirmed as Supergreenred. John Smith's (talk) 19:18, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Just FYI

Your link on your user page to the HGTTG wikiquote page is broken due to a typo. I humbly suggest replacing the existing code with [[q:The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy|The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy]] -- Kendrick7talk 04:34, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks! Done. Jehochman Talk 04:39, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Kendrick still vandalising the banned list

I've given him a final warning, though you may want to rectify the entry. John Smith's (talk) 16:05, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

He's not vandalizing. He has a misplaced, but good faith belief that his actions are helpful. Patience will solve this problem. Jehochman Talk 16:16, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

I doubt that WP:SPIDER even applies

I'm not the one trying to make a big deal out of this. This is one line of history in a very long list. -- Kendrick7talk 16:21, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

So you are just going to force me to use the requested change template on the talk page. Fine, if that's what it takes. Only admins can write history now? Righttt -- Kendrick7talk 16:25, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
We don't solve problems by edit warring. We talk until a consensus is achieved. Jehochman Talk 16:26, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Ok, fair point. If he wants to play around with the page I won't waste any more time worrying about it. John Smith's (talk) 16:42, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Exactly. Somebody else will take care of it. There are a lot of eyes on the issue. You need not worry over it. Giovanni33 is going to be subject to a 1 year ArbCom ban. If he continues socking, that will just get extended. If he returns after a year, either he will have turned over a new leaf, or he will swiftly be escorted out of the wiki a second time. The main thing you should do now is watch for socks. Jehochman Talk 16:46, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
Oh, God - do I have to? Well if I see anything of course I will report it. John Smith's (talk) 11:37, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Firefox 3

Your popular little citation tool isn't compatible with Firefox 3. Any chance of an update? The grapevine is mumbling with requests. Best, DurovaCharge! 09:33, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

It is an open source project. If there is a volunteer who'd like to fix the code, I will arrange access for them to upload a revision. Jehochman Talk 12:37, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
I'll check. DurovaCharge! 05:53, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks

[48] Goodness knows what I did there... Sam Korn (smoddy) 09:46, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

WP:MOBY

Unfortunately, while this would be a great redirect to Wikipedia:Please be a giant dick, so we can ban you, WP:MOBY is already a different page. Neıl 龱 13:23, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Rats! Jehochman Talk 13:42, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Lyme disease redux

Hey. The parade of obviously linked sock/meatpuppet agenda accounts at Lyme disease continues to grow in size and disruptiveness. Latest entrant is Freyfaxi (talk · contribs), just blocked for 31 hours for disruption by Gwen Gale. I'm wondering if you feel uninvolved enough to oversee this rapidly degenerating situation in an administrative capacity. It's your call; if you feel too involved to use the tools, I'll post another request for administrative attention at WP:AN/I, but I'm rapidly tiring of the status quo. MastCell Talk 00:40, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

I already posted a request, and I'm concerned that Je shouldn't be the admin, as his name IRL is accessible. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 00:47, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
Thanks, Sandy - I missed that until after I left my note here. I agree with the concern you raise about real-life repercussions, having done a bit of reading about the tactics involved. MastCell Talk 07:23, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks (they'll be back :-) SandyGeorgia (Talk) 04:34, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Je, I've never been clear on how the checkuser page works: when you do this, do you not have to move the case back to active requests to make sure the checkusers look at it, since it's already filed under completed? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 04:51, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
The checkusers and clerks watchlist those pages. As a practical matter they will see it, but feel free to transclude and add your own comments to reinforce the request. Jehochman Talk 04:55, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
Weird. After adding a comment as you suggested, I got this response (which is gibberish to me, because obviously if I knew my comment wasn't on topic, I wouldn't have made it, so I have no idea what this person is saying). SandyGeorgia (Talk) 02:58, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
I just wasn't sure (had this come up before); do they watchlist them even after they move them to completed requests? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 05:34, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
Mostly, yes. I have my preferences set to watchlist every page I edit. Jehochman Talk 05:35, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
OK, thanks; considering your location, I hope you've factored the concerns here. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 05:37, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
See Nathan Hale. Jehochman Talk 05:45, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
LOL !! SandyGeorgia (Talk) 05:46, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Admins and editors

Probably because it came from the wheel war debate, but I think "Administrators should avoid performing sysop actions that are likely to antagonize other administrators." should say "Administrators should avoid performing sysop actions that are likely to antagonize other editors and administrators." Any antagonistic sysop action is unhelpful. It's difficult to judge this though. Carcharoth (talk) 14:53, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Saw this because I'd recently commented here. Or just other "people". Neıl 龱 16:09, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
Two different thoughts merged into one. 1/ Don't do actions likely to be reversed by other administrators. 2/ Don't do actions likely to antagonize other people. Thank you for the suggestion to enumerate these. Jehochman Talk 16:11, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Re: HeroEngine

While the article might need a bit of cleanup and expansion, I don't get a sense that Elonka was violating COI; she was just trying to clean up the article. Sceptre (talk) 17:38, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

She wasn't merely reverting vandalism. She removed maintenance tags. Given the COI problems she's had in the past, I'd expect her to be much more careful not to create the appearance of COI. She could easily use talk pages to suggest edits and allow a neutral editor to make the changes. Example of this method. She setting a poor example and bringing the project into disrepute. If you've checked the article and are sure the content is neutral, then I don't have a problem with you removing the COI tag. Jehochman Talk 17:41, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
Just to be clear, I am not looking for her head on a spike, just some sort of recognition that her edit wasn't best practices and that she'll be smarter going forward. We need good admins who can stop troublemaking. She should not leave herself vulnerable to criticism because that reduces her effectiveness as an administrator. Jehochman Talk 17:51, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
I suggest you leave a note on her talk page to say this rather than adding a banner to the article; those things take up unnecessary space and do minimal good in many cases. (Not to mention the fact the Elonka's last edit to the article was a week ago.) —Giggy 09:35, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
I have handled a lot of cases at WP:COIN. When we know that a company employee has edited an article about their own stuff, we (COIN partrollers) tag it. As soon as an uninvolved editor reviews the article, they are free to remove the tag. I have left Elonka notes, and I think the issue has been understood. Jehochman Talk 10:05, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Pretty please

Can I respectfully ask you to please not take anymore clerical or administrative actions on the RfC as you did here? Your involvement has been questioned so it would be much better if you just asked an uninvovled admin to handle these types of things. Having you take such actions will simply cause more drama. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 12:46, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

Second. You really should not be trying to control the content of that RfC. Your recent removal of information is not supported by the directive page. Here either. Cla68 (talk) 13:07, 9 July 2011 (UTC)
Cla68, this is the second time you've tried to add an "enemies list" to that RfC. Please stop trying to do that. The RfC is supposed to be about Cirt, not about your "enemies list". Prioryman (talk) 14:52, 9 July 2011 (UTC)
Perhaps "enemies list" is too strong. It is sufficient to say that an RFC is about the subject, and we should not use it to talk about third parties. I believe an arbitration case will be openned soon. Cla68, why don't you save your evidence and post it there? Arbitration is a much better form of dispute resolution for multilateral disputes. Jehochman Talk 14:55, 9 July 2011 (UTC)
Several reasons: (1) an arbcom case may not open, or, even if it does, its scope may exclude that issue, (2) by having a section on out-of-bounds comments already done, it can simply be linked to from the ArbCom evidence page, (3) it gives a chance for editors to review and comment on if they agree that the comments were really out of line or not, and (4) if you remember from psychology class, corrective action is much more effective if undertaken as soon as possible after the infraction occurs. So, weekend demands allowing, I'll be resuming work on completing that section. Cla68 (talk) 02:58, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

Keep it on the talk page and notify each person you complain about. It is wrong to criticize people and not give them opportunity and space to respond. I think that drawing so many subjects together will make even more a mess, but that is your decision. Jehochman Talk 11:37, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

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