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Star Film Company

Hi. I noticed your recent edit at Star Film Company and was wondering where you got the information that Georges Méliès never spoke to his brother Gaston again after the footage that Gaston had shot turned out to be mostly unusable. I'm not sure how familiar you are with editing Wikipedia, but in case you don't know, such claims always require reliable sources if they are to be included in an article.

You also added a bit of information to sentences that have been sourced with the book Texas Hollywood: Filmmaking in San Antonio Since 1910. Have you actually seen this book or did learn of these details somewhere else? --Jpcase (talk) 04:50, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

Well the ref to the Méliès brothers not talking to each other (after the Star Co. went broke I think, perhaps not after the footage sent back to Gaston's son in America was found to be unusuable, which Georges in France (?) may not have known about immediately) was from the article on Georges Méliès, Later life and decline section; Ref 2, though I have not myself seen the book by Wakeman) Hugo999 (talk) 05:03, 5 December 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for clearing that up. I would generally advise against adding information to articles unless you've personally seen the source that it comes from, although I don't know that Wikipedia has an official policy on this or anything. If you decide to do this again, make sure to at least provide the reference that is used for the information by the article that you found it in.
As I mentioned in my last post, you also added a bit of information to sentences that have been sourced with the book Texas Hollywood: Filmmaking in San Antonio Since 1910 by Frank Thompson. Specifically, you added a few countries (Australia, Cambodia, China, and Vietnam) to those that were visited by Gaston while he was on his cruise, specified that the cruise ended in May 1913 and that the films shot at this time were documentaries and dramas, and added that the footage was sent back to America for processing. I see this last point mentioned in the "Later film career and decline" section of the Georges Méliès article (where it is referenced with the Wakeman book, not the one by Thompson), but the other three points do not seem to be mentioned there. Have you actually seen the book by Thompson or did you find this information somewhere else? --Jpcase (talk) 00:36, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
The article on Gaston Méliès refers to the South Pacific tour being from July 1912 to May 1913, although no source appears to be given. The titles of the 33 films listed (incomplete list?) refer to places like Cambodia or Java, and the IMDb entries give the shooting locations. However not all are credited to Gaston Méliès as director or producer, and there seem to be many films just credited to the “Georges Méliès company” on IMDb though the ones shot in the USA or Asia/Pacific rather than France were presumably at least produced by Gaston. There is one 1988 French book I have not seen, presumably on his Pacific tour: Le Voyage Autour du Mond... .The NZ film archives has (according to Sam Edward’s book) a 1912 lettere from Gaston to his son Paul saying to stop sending money to Bracken and Sam Weil as he had dismissed them. The crew (functions not given) that came with him from Taihiti included Mr Bracken , Mrs Mildred Bracken, Sam Weil, Ehfe, Stanley and Miss Tracey (“useless”). Also Johnny (Johnny the cowboy?) who was left in hospital in Wellington with syphillis caught in Taihiti, Ray Gallagher (Johnny & Ray were actors), And Melies second wife Hortense and Edmund Mitchell the screenwriter. George Scott was the photographer on the 3 NZ feature films, the first NZ fearure films. The Wiki article on Gaston says he made films in New York City, San Antonio Texas and California, but the Wiki article on Georges says that Gaston Méliès had a studio in Chicago in 1908, to meet film obligations to Edison. See also The River Wanganui (the 14 in his party from Frisco are named in the Poverty Bay Herald (a provincial paper) of 28 August 1912; avaliable online on Papers Past NZ. Hugo999 (talk) 01:21, 8 December 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for explaining. Another editor has actually found a source for all of the information that didn't have one. Turns out none of this was in the Texas Hollywood book, so yeah, even if information that you find on Wikipedia has been referenced, there's always the possibility that it has been mis-referenced. Hence why I would advise that you only add information that you have personally seen the source for. --Jpcase (talk) 18:49, 8 December 2013 (UTC)
Well it still seems reasonable to me to use information about a subject from the main Wikipedia article in other Wikipedia articles; adding a qualification if something is dubious or controversial. The section in the Star Film Company article on the South Pacific tour could be expanded, but I would like references for the later part of the tour. Did he stop the tour and return to America before he had originally intended to, as the article on Gaston suggests? (shortage of money or lack of usable output?). Hugo999 (talk) 12:39, 9 December 2013 (UTC)
I agree that adding information from one Wikipedia article to another seems reasonable; and as long as you include the reference, I guess that it's more or less okay. The problem though, is that it's not all that uncommon for information in a Wikipedia article to be inaccurate. Also, as I mentioned above, even if the information that you find in a Wikipedia article has been referenced, there's always the possibility that that it has been incorrectly referenced. I won't say that you absolutely should never add information to an article if you haven't personally seen the reference for it, but it would definitely be a good idea to at least leave a message on the Talk page to explain what you are doing, so that other editors are aware that the information hasn't been checked for accuracy and proper referencing.
The Star Film Company article has been rewritten a bit by an editor who had references on hand. It seems that Gaston actually settled in Corsica after stopping his tour, while his son Paul sold off the remainder of the US branch of the Star Film Company to the General Film Company - not Vitagraph Studios as the Gaston Méliès article says (However, half of the company was sold to Vitagraph before Gaston embarked on the tour).
Thanks for taking the time to discuss all of this with me. :) --Jpcase (talk) 23:16, 11 December 2013 (UTC)

Ships sunk as targets

hi dear friend

could you please define this clause. " Ships sunk as targets" thanksAlborzagros (talk) 12:01, 11 December 2013 (UTC)

Re "Ships sunk as targets" I would imagine that they are old ships towed and sunk for targer practice, although I do not know which ship(s) that you are referring to. Hugo999 (talk) 12:57, 11 December 2013 (UTC)
I was going to create category:Ships sunk as targets in farsi (Persian language) but I couldn't see what is meaning? what kind of ships are as target? ships which are .... thanks for replyAlborzagros (talk) 13:13, 11 December 2013 (UTC)
Quite a few ships seem to have been sunk as targets (398), see Category:Ships sunk as targets ! While a special towed target ship could be used for gunnery practice and would not be notable individually (only as a class?), one instance of where a real naval ship was required was the 1921 sinking of battleships to test the vulnerability of battleships to aerial attack, see Billy Mitchell. The US Navy conditions made the tests inconclusive, but WWII showed they were vulnerable! Hugo999 (talk) 21:18, 11 December 2013 (UTC)
thanks for answer. Alborzagros (talk) 08:22, 12 December 2013 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue XCIII, December 2013

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Categorisation of Anglican priests: RFC as followup to CFD

You contributed to the debate at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2013 November 2#Category:English_Anglican_priests, which I have closed today as "no consensus". (This notice is being sent all participants in that debate.)

Apart from the disagreement in that particular case, there seemed to be no broader agreement on how to categorise of Anglican priests. So I have opened a Requests for Comments discussion about it, at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Categories#RFC:_Categorisation_of_Anglican_priests, where your contribution would be welcome. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 14:32, 11 January 2014 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Former United States Army training facilities

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The Bugle: Issue XCIV, January 2014

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Category:Organizations based in the Caribbean

Category:Organizations based in the Caribbean, which you created, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. Tim! (talk) 10:21, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

Hi Hugo, when you redlink people (e.g. this edit), it would be good if you also added a hidden note, i.e. text inside <!-- -->, so that other editors can look up why that person is linked. Otherwise, somebody else may come along and simply remove that redlink again. Schwede66 21:35, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

Clarification

Dear Hugo999, i request you to stop inserting categories of current states to apply on past periods, before those have not existed. There are various political and technical problems with such categories. For example you created Category:19th century in Lebanon (modern Lebanon was formed in 1946, so it should be merged into Ottoman Syria categories). What will happen is that per community consensus on August 2013, those will be deleted (like Category:16th century in Syria, which was merged into Category:16th century in Ottoman Syria). Thanks for your attention.GreyShark (dibra) 20:26, 17 February 2014 (UTC)

Re your comments re “modern Lebanon” being post-1946 on the category I created in 2010 Category:19th century in Lebanon, the Category:Centuries in Lebanon goes back to the 12th century in Lebanon with Lebanon in fact having a pre-20th century history; and the category is now a needed parent for more recent categories (not created by me) like Category:1898 establishments in Lebanon. The 2013 "consensus" you quote relates to Syria in particular changing some centuries to “Ottoman Syria” rather than Syria, and Lebanon was not mentioned (though some centuries in Lebanon could be included in “Ottoman Empire” categories). Hugo999 (talk) 04:05, 18 February 2014 (UTC)
Maybe it wasn't a good example, and don't get me wrong - you are doing a good job. However, i can see that you still actively contribute to articles and categories in the Middle East, like adding portal of modern Syria here, instead of Portal:Ottoman Empire. Just mind this issue, when updating or adding new historic categories. Thanks.GreyShark (dibra) 21:07, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

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Infidel

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The Bugle: Issue XCV, February 2014

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Category:Hispanic and Latino American women in television

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February 2014

Information icon Hello, I'm Pburka. I noticed that you made a change to an article, Ron Rewald, but you didn't provide a reliable source. It's been removed for now, but if you'd like to include a citation and re-add it, please do so! If you need guidance on referencing, please see the referencing for beginners tutorial, or if you think I made a mistake, you can leave me a message on my talk page. This article is a controversial biography of a living person. All material must be referenced to a reliable source. Pburka (talk) 01:10, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for adding a source. Is the 1986 date correct? In 1983 the SEC shut down the firm, and by 1986 Rewald was already imprisoned. Pburka (talk) 01:28, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

Sorry, I should have said "in the 1980s". The TV reports (according to Hensley) implied an attempt by the CIA to destabilize the government and shots of his Auckland building were included, but the CIA involvement is dubious (as Hensley implies, though taken up by the left). The Maori loans affair had un-named "Hawaiian middlemen" though if Ron was imprisoned by then not him! Hugo999 (talk) 01:29, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

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Lae Papua New Guinea

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Category:Commonwealth Games archers by year

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March 2014

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The Bugle: Issue XCVI, March 2014

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CfD nomination of Category:1917 in the Palestinian territories

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Donald Reid

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Category:Massacres in former countries

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Category:Australian nuclear test sites

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Category:Kazakhstani nuclear test sites

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Category:Australian nuclear test sites

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The Bugle: Issue XCVII, April 2014

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April 2014

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Species described in year categories

Hi! Thanks for paying some much needed attention to the species described in year categories. I undid a few of your edits, however. I note that the category hierarchy goes: Plants described in the XX century > Plants described in the XXXXs > Plants described in XXXX. The individual year categories should not be directly included in the century categories. E.g. this edit included the category in Category:Plants described in the 18th century when it's already in the child of that category, Category:Plants described in the 1750s. Think you could fix that? Thanks! Rkitko (talk) 03:27, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

Brunelleschi

Brunelleschi was a Renaissance architect, and a Renaissance engineer. In fact, he was your archetypal Renaissance Man. Please recategorise accordingly. Also, although he was born in the late 1300s, his career didn't take off until 1401, precisely. So he can just be listed as a 15th-century person.

When you are dealing with the 1400s, then there is a merge into the Renaissance. In Florence, the break is 1401. In most other countries it is at least 100 years later, but may be more. You need to read the first paragraph of the biography in order to see how the individual is described in the text. Even in Italy, there were a handful of painters who stuck with the Medieval style into the 1400s. They will be described as International Gothic, and can be safely categorised as Medieval. Amandajm (talk) 09:46, 3 May 2014 (UTC)

There are some categories of Renaissance people by occupation (artists and writers), but why not add the categories and appropriate names to List of Renaissance figures eg separate out architects from artists; add sections for engineers, and for scientists (which seems to have disappeared, as Galileo Galilei was in it). The Middle Ages is categoriesed as from the 5th to 15th centuries inclusive; and I aimed for engineers by period to have Ancient engineers, Medieval engineers and 16th to 19th century engineers ie a complete range. The Renaissance seems to be categorised over several centuries, 14th to 17th centuries. Hugo999 (talk) 23:02, 3 May 2014 (UTC)

  • This Renaissance building by Brunelleschi predates John Wastell's building by nearly a century. Early 1400s. (The spire doesn't belong to this building)
    This Renaissance building by Brunelleschi predates John Wastell's building by nearly a century. Early 1400s. (The spire doesn't belong to this building)
  • John Wastell's Medieval gatehouse at Canterbury Cathedral, early 1500s.
    John Wastell's Medieval gatehouse at Canterbury Cathedral, early 1500s.
It is reasonable to categorise Medieval engineers and architects as including the 15th century. But you cannot include Brunelleschi as either a Medieval engineer or a Medieval architect. He was neither. To categorise him as Mediaeval on the basis of a date is seriously misleading.
The dates of "Renaissance engineer" and "Renaissance architect" need changing to begin at 1400. Having done that, then the architects and engineers need to be carefully sifted to find out what category they fit into.
Similarly, Medieval architecture and engineering continued in England into the 16th century with Henry VII being the patron of the the most innovative Late Medieval building Henry VII Chapel, with Medieval engineering techniques developing in step with the architecture.
You cannot use a single date to separate Medieval from Renaissance. The dates have to overlap, with the regions, styles and individual architect/engineers being taken into account. Brunelleschi cannot be categorised as Medieval, either as an architect or as an engineer. On the other hand, John Wastell was still designing Medieval structures in England as late as 1530 and cannot be categorised as Renaissance.
Also, in Italy there was a very clean break between buildings that were Medieval and those that were Renaissance in style. This was often a very conscious decision on the part of an architect, like Brunelleschi. In places further removed from Florence styles and forms. This is typical of the introduction of Renaissance architecture to France and Spain.
Amandajm (talk) 01:26, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

How about putting the Italian engineers into new categories Category:15th-century engineers, and possibly also Category: Renaissance engineers if there enough engineers to justify it? The Renaissance seems to involve Italy enough to warrant a new Category:Italian people of the Renaissance period similar to Category:German people of the Renaissance period (which is in the categories 15th, 16th and 17th century German people, though the Italian category could be extended to the 14th century). Hugo999 (talk) 04:16, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

The Renaissance began in Italy. There are certainly enough people to warrant Category:Italian people of the Renaissance period.
The word "period" is superfluous. It should be removed from the German category. It implies that there is a beginning and an end date (like the "Victorian Era" which can be dated very precisely to the lifetime of a monarch). The category "German people of the Renaissance period" should be removed to "German people of the Renaissance".
In the case of Italy, there is a sculptor Nicola Pisano and a painter Giotto who were essentially Renaissance artists, and both of whom were born in the 1200s. They are sometimes referred to as "Proto-Renaissance" artists.
I don't think "15th-century engineers" is a good one. "Renaissance engineers" is better because it should start with the 15th-century Brunelleschi. The dome of Florence Cathedral, which was completed in the Gothic style (as Brunelleschi was obliged to do by the committee) was none-the-less engineered by a man who had studied the engineering of Ancient Rome. This is what made him a Renaissance man, not a Medieval one. He employed new techniques, he designed all his own machinery, he did away with traditional Medieval engineering methods, he was the overseer to the whole job, he organised his construction workers in an exceptionally efficient manner. He transformed the whole notion of the way in which major building projects were organised. Brunelleschi was the first architect and engineer in the modern sense.
Amandajm (talk) 04:18, 9 May 2014 (UTC)
There is another thing that I must say. You have suggested "separating out" the various Renaissance people into different categories. The essence of the Renaissance Man defies this. Read the article on Leon Battista Alberti. Leonardo was not alone. Amandajm (talk) 03:51, 10 May 2014 (UTC)
Have created the category Category: Renaissance engineers for Renaissance engineers ie in the 15th (medieval) , 16th & 17th century categories. But several Renaissance categories are subdivided by nationality eg Category: Renaissance painters (Cretan, Dutch, Flemish, German, Italian, Portuguese & Spanish). Likewise Category: Renaissance writers (English, Italian, Portuguese, Romanian & Scottish). So in Britain they prefer writing to painting? Hugo999 (talk) 23:54, 12 May 2014 (UTC)

Lake Atitlán

I have changed your edit on this article dated 14 November 2013, which included Lake Atitlán in the category Volcanic calderas of South America. It does not belong there, as Lake Atitlán is located in Guatemala, hence in Central America, not in South America by any possible criterion or definition. I have changed it to Volcanic calderas of Central America, which is correct. There was another mistaken categorisation there that I have also changed, but that was not made by you. --UrsoBR (talk) 19:20, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

Categorisation

Hi Hugo. I see you've been doing a lot of recategorising recently. I do wonder what the point of categories like Category:1963 elections in Austria are, when they only contain one article. Personally I find categories like Category:1963 elections in Europe useful, as you can see several elections at once, and taking articles out of them makes it more difficult to see what's there. I've started a discussion at Wikipedia talk:Categorization#Creating categories for one article. Cheers, Number 57 11:27, 17 May 2014 (UTC)

Austrian elections pre-1980 were sometimes in cat 19xx elections in Austria (1949, 1953)) & sometimes in cat 19xx elections in Europe (eg 1956, 1959). Hugo999 (talk) 11:40, 17 May 2014 (UTC)
And I've reverted your addtion of Battle of Badon, which may never have occurred and which we can't date precisely, to a deleted category (because it was empty) Category:500 in Europe. I can't see any good reason to have such a category and would probably take it to CSD if it is created. Sorry about that. Dougweller (talk) 15:03, 17 May 2014 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue XCVIII, May 2014

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Huntering

In answer to your question:

See, its easy really and I'm no relation to any of them.
I don't like to carp (its a big and worthwhile project) but calling someone a politician when they served one brief term in parliament (as so often happens) does not seem right to me. They must have done something else as well in their (theoretical) 3 score and 10.
Cheers,
Eddaido (talk) 23:43, 23 May 2014 (UTC)

May 2014

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Year categories

I've noted that you are giving year categories to articles where we are not sure of the year, eg Menai Massacre. I'm not sure why you are doing this but could you find more appropriate categories please? Thanks. Dougweller (talk) 09:18, 3 June 2014 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue XCIX, June 2014

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June 2014

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Evergreen Cemetery (Adams County)

During the Battle of Gettysburg, Evergreen Cemetery was occupied both by Union artillery and Union infantry. This reality renders the cemetery as part of the battlefield (Civil War Sites).

On the other hand, Evergreen was not uniquely established to house battle casualties. The _adjacent but separate_ Soldiers' National Cemetery (a Civil War Cemetery) was established exclusively for the housing of battle casualties.Donaldecoho (talk) 00:18, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

CfD nomination of Category:Proposed public transport in Brazil

Category:Proposed public transport in Brazil and several similar categories have been nominated for deletion, merging, or renaming. You are encouraged to join the discussion on the Categories for discussion page. Oculi (talk) 09:22, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

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Category:People of the Oregon Territory

Category:People of the Oregon Territory, which you created, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. Ricky81682 (talk) 07:50, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

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