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Reliable secondary sources?

I was checking out the failed FA nomination page for Final Fantasy IV (I haven't worked on the page myself), and Gnetwerker's post stood out most in my mind. According to him, Donkey Kong (arcade game) is the ideal video game article given its inclusion of reliable secondary (essentially, print) sources. While Donkey Kong is indeed a nice article (my favorite part is how graphical limitations created the Mario we know and love today), I think we're at a loss for nearly every other video game, including Final Fantasy games. Print sources are just plain difficult to come by; a thorough search of Amazon.com only gives various strategy guides (they have potential, like Final Fantasy X's strategy guide, which interviews game producers in the back pages) and "The Making of Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within." Privately, I think that most IGN staff editors or GameSpy article writers know more than Mia Consalvo in "Hot Dates and Fairy-tale Romances" (Video Game Theory Reader) anyways. But Donkey Kong's article still manages to come through as genuine, without the cloaking of pseudo-scholarly video game books. None of these will mention Final Fantasy games, since they're such a small part of mainstream video game history, so we're forced to rely on strategy guides, instruction manuals, and VG magazine publications for our print sources. Basically, I just wanted to know your thoughts on this, because I'm always looking to better the Final Fantasy articles, particularly in the eyes of those who have disdain for such articles as "unencyclopediac." Thanks! --Tristam 14:52, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I'd appreciate it if you brought it up on the main talk page; I'm not really sure where the most ideal and visible place for it would be. The problem is that these sources (like the doctoral thesis) are so few and far between. Somebody linked a Google Scholar search for "Final Fantasy IV," which brought up five English results, only one of which I thought was good material. I learned, however, that The Ultimate History of Video Games actually has some mention of Sakaguchi and Final Fantasy, but I'm pretty sure it isn't more than in passing. It'd still be worth contacting an owner of the book for that specific text. Thanks! --Tristam 18:10, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Yo!

VI and VIII are now FAs! Thanks for your help! ^_^ Ryu Kaze 16:33, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. Though that's probably stretching it a bit. XD Ryu Kaze 22:44, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Hi there

Hi there. I'm planning on soloing Final Fantasy IX with Tristam's foundation copy, but I could always use some help once the next draft is done :) — Deckiller 02:56, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Funny thing is this: I'm actually replaying it after we pushed it to FA status :) — Deckiller 03:03, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Nice work!

I've added Final Fantasy games to my watchlist and noticed you done some work to them. I like how you've fixed up stuff in my favourite series in wikipedia. Keep up the good work! (post in my talk page if you like!) cocopopz2005

Ryan Avery

Because of your edits on the Kimya Dawson article, I was hoping you would look at this article on her friend and fellow performer Ryan Avery, and lend your comments on the corresponding AfD. Thanks! PT (s-s-s-s) 23:34, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Babel Tags

I didn't know how to get them into my page, so i copied from yours but i gave credit :D (http://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/User:Cocopopz2005)

cocopopz2005

Final Fantasy VII

Thanks, Hibana. I was actually looking into that very issue, as we certainly don't need an entire section devoted to the PC version. I was thinking of doing something similar with what we did for Final Fantasy VIII's PC version. I just need to see if there's really much notable information to say about it and make sure I have the appropriate references. This also reminded me that I forgot to ever put refs on the PC info for VIII, so I need to fix that too. And refs for the SGI demo on Final Fantasy VI. One thing leads to two others. :( Ryu Kaze 19:06, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

I think this is going to be my last one, Hibana. I'm already feeling burned out and I've only taken care of one section. Ryu Kaze 19:29, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
I appreciate that. Ryu Kaze 19:57, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for the concern, but now that I've gotten started I'd be more frustrated if I left the job half done. That's the problem with me beginning something. 99.9% of things probably get ignored by me, but that .1% that gets my attention really gets my attention. Though, lately, it's more like 10% of things getting my attention, I admit. I really have been spreading myself a bit thin, but after Final Fantasy VII is done, I'm done. I've got to get back to work in a couple of weeks anyway, so I should hopefully be done by then anyway. Ryu Kaze 01:25, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
I teach at a high school, now officially as a regular rather than just a sub. The vacation's just about over for both of us, huh? Ryu Kaze 01:31, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Threeway editing

Glad to see that we have a three-pronged attack here. Final Fantasy IX still needs a lot of work, and I don't plan on doing it all in one day like Ryu (Retail sucks) :-P — Deckiller 05:03, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

I think he's trying to prove something? Lol. Seriously, I don't know why he's going so crazy. — Deckiller 05:10, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, he's getting worse than me, and I've been told that I'm too obsessed :-D — Deckiller 06:32, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Final Fantasy V

I was thinking if we created a development section, we could note Amanos art, and on that website there are many concept art images that he created. :) Judgesurreal777 16:08, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

What's that? A star in the corner of CT?!

Yep, it's FA now. ^_^ I'm not surprised, though. It had Zeality, you, me, Deckiller, CS... if it hadn't passed — no, there's no "if it hadn't passed" scenario. It couldn't have done anything but pass. Great work. Ryu Kaze 14:19, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Hm

You know, I've never noticed that the page said "player character" instead of "playable character". Wow. By the way, got the Series thing fixed in the infobox. Throw a couple of '' between the series title and the word "series" itself. Ryu Kaze 00:09, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

I hate that term "player character". It's grammatically incorrect :) — Deckiller 00:10, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
I personally like the novelty value of it (oldschool and all, as Hibana mentioned), but I do have to admit that Deck's right about the grammatically incorrect nature of it. Ryu Kaze 00:12, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
I find myself growing less fond of "old school". To me, old school involved save the princess after your village burns down-type plots. I consider 1998 to be the dawn of the "new era" of RPGs. — Deckiller 00:14, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

FFV

Sounds great! We are on our way, this article should be a winner :) Judgesurreal777 16:54, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Once we have fixed the story/plot/character stuff, we should be able to contact our GA reviewer for quick GA status, and then start building it toward FA :) Judgesurreal777 21:32, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
I was wondering what that state loaded thing was....as for the french stuff, is that a problem? That was the only one I could find.....I'll try to find another... :) Judgesurreal777 01:11, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
I rewrote the character section to be like Final Fantasy VI, and it seems that the plot section is very much like FF6's, minus the references to the games dialogue. Is that what they want for it to be in compliance with the guideline? Judgesurreal777 01:25, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
I'll look around for that along with 2 new images to replace the other ones. :) We're doing great! Judgesurreal777 01:35, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
Does the article need a map? And is the french job system a problem? Just wondering :) Take care! Judgesurreal777 04:12, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
Ok cool, I just noticed several maps on the internet, wondered if we needed one. And I put the text to the game in the TO DO box for ya Judgesurreal777 15:11, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Next FA: Template:Final Fantasy series!!1one

Nice one. XD Thanks a lot. As always, I appreciate your tech and moral support. It was nice having you in the cheering section again. Ryu Kaze 02:37, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Final Fantasy V

Yeah, this one is pretty short on details. It's probably partly because the game is one of the least popular in the series, and partly because it's only been a few years since it saw an authorized release outside of Japan (with media coverage, even then, consisting mainly of talking about how long the wait had been or gushing over the game's battle system). I imagine there's information in Japanese somewhere that would tell you all you'd want to know, but I don't have any idea where to start looking for that, except for maybe this (which I don't own — I honestly don't even know what it talks about).

I'm sorry I can't really be more help on this one. Maybe with the upcoming GBA rerelease we'll see more discussion on the development of the original in the media. Until then, I can only suggest using anything you've got. Sorry again that I can't offer more. Good luck. Ryu Kaze 17:26, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

FFV Advance new info.

I was the one who edited the FFV page. Here is the confirmation of the info of 4 new classes and the 30 floor dungeon. http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/276/picture075vb1.jpg Sorry for the trouble. I'll also try to find a better pic, once I get the issue itself. This pic is from Nintendo Power Vol. 208 October 2006.

Final Fantasy V Advance Site Open!

The Japanese site is now open, the info from it that I have received is that the Bare job from the original has been renamed as Freelancer. I have no idea if it will stay like this in the translation though.

Final Fantasy IV

As long as we aren't over reliant on the article, we should be fine. Sir Crazyswordsman 00:47, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

I don't see why you want to use the GBA quotes. If you want to change them, go right ahead. I personally think the SNES quotes are fine, and since I wrote that section AND added all the references, you can understand my not wanting to go back and change it. Sir Crazyswordsman 01:48, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
Nope. That's the official Ted Woolsey translation there. Got it off GameFAQs. Sir Crazyswordsman 02:08, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Re:double-spacing

Nope, I don't know of any browsers that it shows up on. I was actually removing the double-spacings (I think they make the editing process annoying) until I noticed that the entire article has been changed to be like that, and I didn't feel like going through to remove all of the double spaces at the moment, so I just reverted the ones I'd removed. I might go back and change it later, though. What do you think? Ryu Kaze 17:29, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

It's fine, no problem. I would have commented too if I'd thought somebody was adding them. I really don't see the point in it since it doesn't show up, and in my experience, that whole double spacing at the end of sentences thing is for teaching kindergartners to make it obvious when they're beginning a new sentence. After I add the video game cite template (like Zeality just added to Chrono Trigger) to our high quality pages, I'm going to go through Final Fantasy VIII and get rid of those double spaces. Ryu Kaze 17:36, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
Hm. I must not have noticed when that happened (or maybe I was already at 3 reverts for that day). Oh well. They'll be gone before the day's over. Ryu Kaze 17:47, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Bad faith with Disgaea characters article.

  1. Do not make AfDs to make a point.
  2. While there is reason for the article to exist now (what with two games, a manga and an anime), there originally was a game and an anime.
  3. You're AfDing a single character list because I AfDed the lot of the FFVI character articles. Not only is it bad to make a point, it's bad to make a bad point. - A Link to the Past (talk) 00:16, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for that; separate request!

I was curious if you were interested in joining an effort to both remove far-too-crufty CVG articles, but preserving CVG articles which deserve to exist. - A Link to the Past (talk) 03:35, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Your list IS worthwhile despite what some deletionists would say

The list (List_of_X-Play_characters) you created is/was up for deletion. I want you to know there is a place for it: http://wikitistics.com . No one will be able to nominate it for deletion because it fits one simple rule: it's a statistic, list, or figure. Some people think these websites should encompass the same scope of a paper book- we don't. Apologies if this note is directed at the wrong person. Good luck with your endeavors! Joe 00:59, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

RE: Metal Gear Solid 3

I dunno, I never really saw the need to take it to GA status when a few weeks later it was going to be promoted to FA. And I agree, the article at present is definitely A-class, so I, or someone else, could probably change that sometime. My intention right from the outset was to take it to FA status, and apart from a few minor issues it's ready for an FAC. Ideally this FAC will happen before Sunday. -- Steel 10:20, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Starting a New WikiProject?

Hi Hibana,

I'm not positive, but aren't you the head of the FFWikiProject? I was toying with the idea of starting a WikiProject Dragon Quest, given the deplorable state of the articles (with hopes of creating at least one shining example - preferably with Dragon Quest/Warrior I - to set the standards). Is it OK for just anyone to start these projects, and do you know how I would go about doing it? Thanks! --Tristam 00:11, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Hibana - when you can, please see the latest discussion over the possibility of a WikiProject Square Enix on the WikiProject Final Fantasy discussion page. It looks like a consensus could easily be reached with such glowing support already. :) --Tristam 15:59, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

FFVIa Sources

Hi Hibana,

I'd just like to apologize for not adding [citation needed] tags. The only source I had was this magazine scan [1]

It also talks about a new dungeon added a lá Dawn of Souls and FFIVa, however this one requires 3 seperate parties to actually get through it.

Apologies again. If I am able to get an official reference i'll add it immediatley.

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Source for .

Could you please provide a source for this image so I don't have to bother replacing it? Thanks. - A Link to the Past (talk) 02:57, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

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Orphaned non-free image (Image:SeikenDensetsu3logo.JPG)

Thanks for uploading Image:SeikenDensetsu3logo.JPG. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. BetacommandBot 06:35, 21 June 2007 (UTC)


Non-free use disputed for Image:Wakka_Kingdom_Hearts.jpg

Warning sign This file may be deleted.

Thanks for uploading Image:Wakka_Kingdom_Hearts.jpg. However, there is a concern that the rationale you have provided for using this image under "fair use" may be invalid. Please read carefully the instructions at Wikipedia:Non-free content and then go to the image description page and clarify why you think the image qualifies. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If it is determined that the image does not qualify under fair use, it will be deleted within a couple of days according to our Criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. ShakespeareFan00 12:20, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image (Image:FFVI Sabin Desperation.jpg)

Thanks for uploading Image:FFVI Sabin Desperation.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. BetacommandBot 04:35, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Image:FF5_Gilgamesh.jpg

I have tagged Image:FF5_Gilgamesh.jpg as a disputed use of non-free media, because there is a concern that the rationale you have provided for using this image under "fair use" may be invalid. Please clarify your fair use rationale on the image description page. Thank you. ShakespeareFan00 09:29, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Unspecified source for Image:FF5_Gilgamesh.jpg

Thanks for uploading Image:FF5_Gilgamesh.jpg. I noticed that the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you did not create this file yourself, then you will need to specify the owner of the copyright. If you obtained it from a website, then a link to the website from which it was taken, together with a restatement of that website's terms of use of its content, is usually sufficient information. However, if the copyright holder is different from the website's publisher, then their copyright should also be acknowledged.

As well as adding the source, please add a proper copyright licensing tag if the file doesn't have one already. If you created/took the picture, audio, or video then the {{GFDL-self}} tag can be used to release it under the GFDL. If you believe the media meets the criteria at Wikipedia:Fair use, use a tag such as {{non-free fair use in|article name}} or one of the other tags listed at Wikipedia:Image copyright tags#Fair use. See Wikipedia:Image copyright tags for the full list of copyright tags that you can use.

If you have uploaded other files, consider checking that you have specified their source and tagged them, too. You can find a list of files you have uploaded by following this link. Unsourced and untagged images may be deleted one week after they have been tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If the image is copyrighted under a non-free license (per Wikipedia:Fair use) then the image will be deleted 48 hours after 09:30, 3 July 2007 (UTC). If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. ShakespeareFan00 09:30, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Ff6_edgar.jpg

Thanks for uploading or contributing to Image:Ff6_edgar.jpg. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use. Suggestions on how to do so can be found here.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If you have uploaded other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on those pages too. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any non-free media lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. ShakespeareFan00 09:57, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Image:Ff6gauart.jpg

I have tagged Image:Ff6gauart.jpg as a disputed use of non-free media, because there is a concern that the rationale you have provided for using this image under "fair use" may be invalid. Please clarify your fair use rationale on the image description page. Thank you. ShakespeareFan00 09:58, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Unspecified source for Image:Ff6gauart.jpg

Thanks for uploading Image:Ff6gauart.jpg. I noticed that the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you did not create this file yourself, then you will need to specify the owner of the copyright. If you obtained it from a website, then a link to the website from which it was taken, together with a restatement of that website's terms of use of its content, is usually sufficient information. However, if the copyright holder is different from the website's publisher, then their copyright should also be acknowledged.

As well as adding the source, please add a proper copyright licensing tag if the file doesn't have one already. If you created/took the picture, audio, or video then the {{GFDL-self}} tag can be used to release it under the GFDL. If you believe the media meets the criteria at Wikipedia:Fair use, use a tag such as {{non-free fair use in|article name}} or one of the other tags listed at Wikipedia:Image copyright tags#Fair use. See Wikipedia:Image copyright tags for the full list of copyright tags that you can use.

If you have uploaded other files, consider checking that you have specified their source and tagged them, too. You can find a list of files you have uploaded by following this link. Unsourced and untagged images may be deleted one week after they have been tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If the image is copyrighted under a non-free license (per Wikipedia:Fair use) then the image will be deleted 48 hours after 09:58, 3 July 2007 (UTC). If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. ShakespeareFan00 09:58, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image (Image:Shuyin artwork.jpg)

Thanks for uploading Image:Shuyin artwork.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. BetacommandBot 02:46, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image (Image:Wakka Kingdom Hearts.jpg)

Thanks for uploading Image:Wakka Kingdom Hearts.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. BetacommandBot 21:30, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:X play logo.jpg

Thanks for uploading or contributing to Image:X play logo.jpg. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use. Suggestions on how to do so can be found here.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If you have uploaded other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on those pages too. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any non-free media lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. ++aviper2k7++ 20:47, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

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