User talk:Drmies/Archive 36

DYK review request

Good evening, Drmies! I see that you've done quite a few reviews of DYK nominations and was wondering if you could possibly review two of which I've recently submitted: stimulus modality and implicit learning on August 1st and August 10th respectively. These will go towards a school assignment and are due very shortly so any time and help you can offer would be greatly appreciated! Thank you. R-Bot6 (talk) 01:37, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

• Hey. I'm looking at Stimulus modality and I'm seeing some things already. The use of first person in the opening sentence isn't good and should be rephrased, and I don't know what "coding the stimulus modality" means. Keep in mind, you're writing for an audience that knows a lot less about this than you do (and that includes me). Drmies (talk) 01:49, 12 August 2012 (UTC)
• I made some edits and left some questions in the text ("explain" template) and in edit summaries. Problem is it's a fairly lengthy article and it's fairly technical--I have yet to read the whole thing. So be patient, and continue to work on it. Drmies (talk) 02:06, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for reviewing. I actually didn't see these wonderful suggestions you've made until now. I will definitely make some of the necessary changes to stimulus modality. I've made some suggested edits to implicit learning and left a reply comment under the DYK nomination. Please let me know if anything else! R-Bot6 (talk) 23:58, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

There, I did it

There, I did it. What can i say? Some men just want to watch the world burn. --Activism1234 02:32, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

• Haha, good call--yes, I saw that too but lost the trees for the forest. Speaking of Olympics, the 10m diving final was pretty exciting. Drmies (talk) 02:46, 12 August 2012 (UTC)
  • Tragically, I'm so busy here that pretty much the only time I can watch the Olympics is during lunch :( --Activism1234 03:09, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you

The Genuine Barnstar

Drmies, you are a true friend and for me, the very model of an outstanding Wikipedia administrator. I present to you this barnstar, I believe the very first barnstar I've ever awarded, which is based on a photo I took myself in Petaluma, California, (home town of my father-in-law) as a small token of the high regard I feel for you. Thank you for everything you do for the world's greatest encyclopedia.Cullen328 Let's discuss it 06:31, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

• Cullen, I really appreciate that. One day we'll get together again and have cocktails and talk about the good old days. Please give my regards to Mrs. Cullen and to Cullen junior, and let me know if I can help with anything. Drmies (talk) 14:26, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

Balink and Franken

I trust they'll find this appropriate. Thanks for the help with them. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 11:50, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

• Ah, you wrote it! And it looks great! Well done Crisco--and thank you. Drmies (talk) 17:04, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

• Cheers! Just missing one source before I consider it FA-ready... Lost Films of Asia — Crisco 1492 (talk) 05:21, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

Are you banned?

I saw on AN that you needed to be banned. Have you been banned? If not, why not, huh? Beyond My Ken (talk) 04:46, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

Seconded. --kelapstick^(bainuu) 09:10, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

And I never got the chance to throw doc mies under the bus. :/ Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 12:41, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

Waffle cakes! Waffle cakes! :) Franamax (talk) 12:55, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

Aww, say it ain't so. I'm going to miss your help in the middle of the night! :0( OliverTwisted ^(Talk) (Stuff) 13:13, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

Waffle cakes! Someone remembers! BMK, I'll check AN out in a little bit--first, I gotta pretend to a room full of people that I teach Business and Professional Writing (if I manage to get a key code for the door from our secretary...). Drmies (talk) 14:13, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

Y'know, it's funny. We were required to take a technical writing class (there were also business/professional writing variants of the same class), and the professor was a poetry guy. He even had to get a substitute for us for when he had to go to some poetry event in Europe. Needless to say, the class was pointless. What is the deal with English professors being forced to teach business writing when it's not even close to their field? Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 14:16, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

It's not so simple a matter. First of all, in defense of me and my colleagues (maybe not all of them), usually we know how to write and teach writing in different disciplines. In my case, I worked for a school of accountancy for many years, and in various other administrative functions in a couple of different fields of business. A lot of it is plain common sense, and much of the rest is following accepted guidelines and adopting templates. Second, apparently many schools of business think it's not their business to teach writing, or they don't want it to be their business--farming it out to people like me is a lot cheaper, since we get paid a lot less on our side of campus. So it makes business sense, haha. I like to think that my class is not so pointless: in fact, I get better evaluations in those classes than in a lot of lit classes, although it is entirely possible that I simply suck even worse in lit classes. Speaking of lit classes, gotta run... Drmies (talk) 15:44, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

Well, you're definitely leagues better than the prof I had (even in the clue department, totally apart from actual business experience). He...didn't know what he was doing. I mean, it is a lot of common sense, but then there's not much to teach, is there? What we really needed was someone to give us examples of things from real life, and he never had any; he just kinda waved us off to go do our workbook exercises. I guess the class wasn't a total waste though; there was a girl in it who would always bring homemade candy in, and it was delicious. Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 15:58, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

The Secret River

I've suggested yet another hook. Hope you'll take a look, and thanks.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 05:13, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

•  Done Drmies (talk) 23:14, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

'sup

Made it to Mongolia, and am relearning how to cross the street. I am always amazed at how the drivers here can tun two lanes into three, and four lanes into five. It is quite the sight. Hope all is well, cheers. --kelapstick^(bainuu) 09:13, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

• Say hello to my Uncle while there. What in the world do you do that takes you to such exotic locales. Well, except Canada is a dump and not exotic. Bgwhite (talk) 09:25, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
  • I dabble. You have an uncle here? Does he go by Uncle Bgwhite? If not I may have trouble finding him. Or does he go by the name "skip"? Because I know a guy here nicknamed Skip that reminds me of you. Also, I'm going to build my own TARDIS, that should be a fun way to kill the days off, no? Drmies will have his hands full so I won't ask for his ample woodworking expertise. --kelapstick^(bainuu) 09:41, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
    • Drmies is busy finally being banninated for having an ungrammatical account name, ne? Uncle G (talk) 14:13, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
• I lived in Phoenix in the last 80s, sounds like the same drivers. Whatever you are there for, hope you have some fun doing it. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 10:50, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
  • Good on you, mate! I thought of you just now when I checked my Facebook and your boy's face popped up. Yes, we are well and we are biding our time, waiting on this kid who is really taking his time. First day of class today--keep your fingers crossed for me since I already have mommy brain. Drmies (talk) 14:12, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
• As one who has some experience with the avuncular, I suggest that M. White Background's Mongolian uncle's name is almost certainly Sagaan Ubgen. M. White Background will no doubt be familiar with the practice, in Canadia, of having a dual-language passport: one half in some funny language with diacritics and strange words like "précis", "naïve", and "renaissance" that are only uttered by dang furriners, and the other half in French. His uncle has a dual-language passport, too. When he travels to the Great White North, he is known by his Buryat name of Белый Старец.

  Ignore the red colour of the hyperlink, there. Everybody knows that it should correctly be yellow. Move along, now. This is not something that you did not know that you did not know, M. Chapstick, and don't even try to pretend that it was. ☺

  Uncle G (talk) 14:13, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

  • Shimamura, Ippei (2004). "Yellow Shamans (Mongolia)". In Walter, Mariko Namba; Neumann Fridman, Eva Jane (eds.). Shamanism: An Encyclopedia of World Beliefs, Practices, and Culture. Vol. 1. ABC-CLIO. pp. 649–651. ISBN 9781576076453. {{cite encyclopedia}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)
  • Hesse, Klaus (1987). "On the History of Mongolian Shamanism in Anthropological Perspective". Anthropos. 82 (4/6): 403–413. {{cite journal}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)
  • Hesse, Klaus (1986). "A Note on the Transformation of White, Black and Yellow Shamanism in the History of the Mongols" (PDF). Studies in History. 2: 17–30. doi:10.1177/025764308600200102. {{cite journal}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help); Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)
  • Зеленин, Дмитрий Константинович (1936). Культ онгонов в Сибири (in Russian). Moskva: Изд-во Академии наук СССР. {{cite book}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)
  • Pedersen, Morten Axel (2011). Not Quite Shamans: Spirit Worlds and Political Lives in Northern Mongolia. Culture and Society After Socialism. Cornell University Press. ISBN 9780801476204. {{cite book}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)
  • Gibson, Todd (1985). "dgra-lha: a re-examination" (PDF). The Journal of the Tibet Society. 5. Bloomington, IN: Indiana University: 67–72. {{cite journal}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)
  • Bira, Shagdar (2011). Regarding the history of Tngri cult of Mongols. III Международная научно-практическая конференция — Тенгрианство и эпическое наследие народов Евразии: истоки и современность, 1 по 3 июля 2011 (in Russian). {{cite conference}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)
  • Uncle, I'm trying, but JSTOR and GBooks don't give me anything more. That red/yellow link should be blue, indeed. But first we take a nap. Drmies (talk) 19:05, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
    • Well if you're stumped, notice that Токарев, Сергей Александрович, the author of the Soviet encyclopaedia Мифы народов мира doesn't have an English article apparently. Does Doctor Blow-dry read Russian? Or is it only Polish? ☺ There's more on M. White Background's Mongolian uncle to be found in Google Books, but it is in Cyrillic. ☺ The Yellow shamans article should be easier. There are sources in English, as you saw. There's that whole encyclopaedia article, cited above. Uncle G (talk) 19:52, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
      • I didn't look in Cyrillic, since I'm lazy that way. Yellow shamanism should indeed be easier, and there may be a double DYK in there. It'd be even better if we had something on black shamanism as well for a triple. Speaking of tripel, I'm having a St. Bernardus Prior 8. Cheers, Drmies (talk) 20:39, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
        • Uncle, this is getting out of hand. Yellow shamanism, Dayan Deerh... Drmies (talk) 23:10, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
          • Don't forget ongons (for which many people seem to cite Зеленин 1936, but for which you can use Pedersen 2011, which discusses a whole lot of things from ongod to the abodes and partitions of ongod), with a headnote to Ongon, Sükhbaatar. Uncle G (talk) 09:00, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
        • This stuff is fascinating! K-stick, you need to get yourself a horse--see Dayan Deerh. We need pictures. Drmies (talk) 02:01, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
    • What you need is someone who can look at sources in Mongolian. But it might be the case, alas, that M. Chapstick has picked up a local approach to other languages: Speak loudly and slowly. Fair goes, every fella speaks Strine, right? Uncle G (talk) 08:31, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
      • A main article on Mongolian shamanism is warranted--but it would (and should) gobble up yellow and black. Drmies (talk) 18:01, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
        • I could definitely see that an article on Mongolian shamanism is possible. I have access to the Highbeam Research site, and see several articles about it. If someone wants some material from there, if they would send me an e-mail with their address and an indication of what they want, I can forward material from there, or other Gale databanks, or ProQuest, JSTOR, NewsBank, and various other databanks. Also, several of the relevant religion encyclopedias, including Lindsay Jones' 2nd edition of the Encyclopedia of Religion, have multiple articles relating to this basic subject. I gathered a list of the articles in that work at User:John Carter/Religion articles, and we're still missing a lot of them. In that volume, I think every article is at least a few paragraphs long and has some individual bibliography. The old Hastings Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics probably has a good deal on the subject as well, even if some of it is dated. If anyone here would want anything on any of these topics, drop me an e-mail indicating what you want and I can try to get it to you in a few days at most. John Carter (talk) 18:59, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
          • Thank you John, that's very kind of you. I'm working, for now, with what I can find using GBooks and other sources, and I'm trying to get a bunch of these articles to DYK length--this is my unsystematic, haphazard way of doing things. Drmies (talk) 21:04, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
            • Well, if you find some trouble getting any of them to length, drop me a note and I can do what I can to help make them serious DYK candidates. There are a remarkable number of significant articles we don't have yet, and anything I could do to help get more content related to religion in some way, including DYKs, might get more interest in the subject and more people to work on the related articles sounds good to me. I remember my first DYK was rejected because I added a tag about incorporating a very short public domain source in the article, which sucked actually, and I would be more than happy to help get any content on the main page. John Carter (talk) 23:26, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
              • John, I could use some help with the one that started all of this, Sagaan Ubgen. Mongolian shamanism also would benefit from some professional eyes and fingers. Thanks! Drmies (talk) 20:44, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
            • Sergei Aleksandrovich Tokarev has magically appeared, thanks to Aymatth2. I shall authorlink it forthwith. If you're not careful, all of this stuff is going to be up at the same time. Uncle G (talk) 23:57, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

File:Belyastarecweliste.jpg

Hi, I'm Tsagan Aav from Elista, and I'm not a stupid boilerplate talk page notice from a robot. The Kalmyk Buddhist Monastery Central has an article with a picture of someone better looking. But I tell better jokes. A dissertation on White Elders in traditional Mongolian cultures walks into a bar one day — Stop me if you've heard this one before. — …

Regarding Uncle G's query about my Mongolian, I haven't taken to talking loud, as it is unhelpful. Slow, no prepositions, and knowing a little of the language helps. I can read Cyrillic so I can make out words I know and words that are actually English. As my user page says, I refer to this as Yassan be mongolian. --kelapstick^(bainuu) 22:43, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

• K, I'm jealous of you and your exotic travel. How's the family settling in? How's the job? Drmies (talk) 23:17, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
  • Haven't made it to work yet, weather problems. Family is settling in good. --kelapstick^(bainuu) 23:22, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
• Nah mate. You haven't absorbed the ways of WA yet. Just speak English, loudly and slowly, and she'll be right. If you can read Cyrillic, you can help LadyofShallot at Talk:Sagaan Ubgen#Statue?, as long as you can read Kalmyk written in Cyrillic. Uncle G (talk) 23:57, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

Thanks to User talk:Moonriddengirl#Richard Arthur Norton, we now know that we don't have the toli, also known as the küzüngü in Turkish and the panaptu in Manchurian, which is a small metal mirror. And we didn't even know that we didn't have it. By the way: There's real stuff in what Tsagan Aav from Elista says. I've been doing some reading …. Uncle G (talk) 10:08, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

• I do have access to a number of translators, should you need anything in particular from Mongolian. The Russian and Mongolian Cyrillic pronunciations are pretty similar, except there are a few extra letters in Mongolian. Not sure about Kalmyk. Although just because I can "read" Cyrillic, doesn't mean that I can understand it. I am best at words like Банк. An excellent resource for translating individual words is here. It's not perfect, but I haven't seen many online Mongolia translation options over the last three years I have required them. --kelapstick^(bainuu) 04:36, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
  • Also on the Mongolian Shamanism topic, The Horse Boy is a book and film about a father who takes his son to Mongolia to meet the shamin to help with his son's autism, as he seems to interact well with horses. I haven't read the book/watched the movie, but Mrs. Kelapstick has read the book. Could be an interesting DYK tie in. --kelapstick^(bainuu) 04:43, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
    • I wrote up Mongolian shamanism, more or less out of desperation (my small mind cannot contain or produce bigger articles), and there's an all-too short section on drums--for which usually horse skin was used. That books sounds interesting. Drmies (talk) 15:02, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
      • You could take up John Carter's offer, above. Uncle G (talk) 16:45, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
      • Bira 2011 might help with Mongolian shamanism a little bit. Uncle G (talk) 22:56, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
    • If you want some tie ins, then you need only note that there's a small parade of Mongolian equestrian deities still awaiting work:
      • Sülde Tngri
      • Dayičin Tngri, a.k.a. Dayisun Tngri, Dayisud Tngri, and Daitsching Tängäri, and an analogue of the Tibetan dgra lha (for more on which latter, see Gibson 1985)
    • We didn't even know that we didn't have them. None of the above are redlinked anywhere except this very page. (Compare Special:WhatLinksHere/gwestva.) Oddly, we have Geser Khan.

      Yes, I have been reading again. My systematic exhaustion of every alternative name that I can find for Sagaan Ubgen has finally hit the writing of Walther Heissig, who tells me something that neither you nor Drmies should pretend that you didn't know: While the 99 tngri are in fact 102 in number, Etügen Eke (a.k.a. Etügen Ekhe or sometimes Itügen) has 77 levels. You'll have to work hard if you want that one. We already have a fairly pitiable article at Etugen, which isn't what Heissig says to be the name.

      Uncle G (talk) 16:45, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

      • I have started a stub of Dayisun Tngri. It's nowhere near a complete work, but my lunch break is over. LadyofShalott 18:48, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
        • I keep finding things in French and German...why can't people speak Amurrican?! Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 19:25, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
          • French? German? Luxury! ☺ Uncle G (talk) 22:07, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
        • Sorry to butt in but I speak French and would be happy to translate anything if you think it would help. :) Keilana|^{Parlez ici} 19:59, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
          • Please pitch in wherever you see an opportunity! Writ Keeper, you don't have to try and exorcize your guilt here: I have no special power to absolve you. You could, of course, ask Keilana for some French lessons. Drmies (talk) 20:41, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
            • Well, I've officially thrown my hat into the content-creation ring with Sülde Tngri. Any help and/or feedback would be great. Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 21:21, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
              • See pp. 84–90 of the book that LadyofShallot used for Dayičin Tngri. Uncle G (talk) 22:11, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
                • Oh, wow, how did I miss that? Thanks! Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 22:13, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
                  • Writ Keeper, Lady, perhaps you can combine a couple of those Tngris for a DYK, in combination with some clarification in Tengri and a reference to tngri in Mongolian shamanism? Drmies (talk) 01:26, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

You already have a six-fold hook. But as a fallback, I have a hook for Sagaan Ubgen alone that may interest you. Did you know … that the character of the White Old Man was imported from Mongolian tsam dance into Tibetan cham dance because the 13th Dalai Lama had a dream? I'm working on the content right now. Of course, the source that I've found this in uses yet another transliteration of this name. Uncle G (talk) 22:07, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

• Excellent--that's the only one that's under the limit; the rest still needs work, of course, and I apologize for, basically, half-assing. The Lady knows why (no news, Lady).
  • What was the projected date? You said a couple days, and that's been a couple weeks ago, hasn't it? LadyofShalott 01:52, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Put "Шоу-син" into Google Images and see what turns up. This transliterates to Shousin. I think that this is the Old Man of the South Pole, but of course the books in Russian don't give the actual Chinese or Japanese name …. Uncle G (talk) 12:45, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Five day report

File:Belyastarecweliste.jpg

Hi, I'm Tsagan Aav from Elista. Did you know that I'm a fertility god? Look what happened as soon as I touched your talk page.

• Six-fold [now seven-fold, Drmies] Did You Know hook at Template:Did you know nominations/Mongolian shamanism, involving:
  • Mongolian shamanism
  • Yellow shamanism  · Yellow shaman
  • Black shamanism
  • Sagaan Ubgen, a.k.a. Tsagan Aav, Tsagan Ebugen, Tsagaan Ebugen, Tsagaan Övgön, Tsagaan Ovgon, Tsagaan Uvgun, Cagan Öbö, Cagan Obo, and of course Belyi Starets (Белый Старец)
  • ongon
  • Dayan Deerh
    • I added tngri to this hook.
• Potential additional quadruple hook, awaiting more work on the 99 tngri that there are actually 102 of:
  • Sülde Tngri
  • Dayičin Tngri, a.k.a. Dayisun Tngri, Dayisud Tngri, and Daitsching Tängäri
  • Etügen Eke a.k.a. Etügen Ekhe and Itügen — She has 77 levels, you know.
  • Qormusata Tngri a.k.a Qormusta (which currently redirects to a page on a Zoroastrian deity)
    • I've done some reading, and I saw the 99 confirmed, with the possible addition of Gengis Khan as 100, and somewhere in the stack of articles I have was a reference to 77 others, a different category. I have work to do. I've appropriated Tngri and have started on it--it should lead to the others. Drmies (talk) 00:12, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
    • I also made Qormusata Tngri and reappropriated the redirect. Drmies (talk) 00:21, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
• Potential additional single hook that is ready now:
  • Did you know … that Sergei Aleksandrovich Tokarev, encyclopaedist and ethnographer, in 1986 still attributed shamanism to mental illness, a Marxist view that was not shared by most Soviet students of the subject at the time?
• Others:
  • toli (shamanism) a.k.a. panaptu and küzüngü — A Mongolian shaman accused of copyright violation complains "But I was only mirroring non-free content!".
  • Mongolia–Japan relations — passed to Doctor Blow-dry with a hook not yet in the article (but in the cited source) and the DYK clock ticking. See User talk:Dr. Blofeld#the Mongolian drive.
  • dgra lha — Tibetan warrior gods. See Gibson 1985 et al..

Here's a summary of where we are. Uncle G (talk) 09:59, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

• Pegg, Carole (2001). Mongolian Music, Dance, & Oral Narrative: Performing Diverse Identities. University of Washington Press. ISBN 9780295981123. {{cite book}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)
• Oxtoby, Willard Gurdon (1996). World religions: Eastern traditions. Oxford University Press. ISBN 9780195407501. {{cite book}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)
• Neumann Fridman, Eva Jane (2004). Sacred geography: shamanism among the Buddhist peoples of Russia. Bibliotheca shamanistica. Akadémiai Kiadó. ISBN 9789630581141. {{cite book}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)
• Cotterell, Arthur (1999). "Begze Suren". Encyclopedia of world mythology. Barnes & Noble Books. ISBN 9780760728550. {{cite encyclopedia}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)
• I'ma try digging into dgra lha, unless someone else is already on it. Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 18:44, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
  • Writ Keeper, I made a few edits to Sülde Tngri; it's ready at least for DYK. If I can make a suggestion: leave the Tibetans and stick to the Mongolians--see if you can do a few more of those Tngri. You saw what all's in Heissig ch. 5; it shouldn't be too difficult to crank out a few more and combine a couple of them in one hook. DYK "...that the variegated membership of the Tngri include X Tngri, Y Tngri, and Z Tangri?" Or one can make it more specific--wasn't the Lady's god on horseback also? Drmies (talk) 19:03, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
  • Which reminds me: I am halfway done with Qormusata Tngri. Your Sülde Tngri is done, and Dayisun Tngri and Etügen Eke need to be finished up. That quadruple hook should be easy to crank out; Qormusata Tngri is now at DYK length. Drmies (talk) 19:07, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
  • If you need an alternative explanation that links this pantheon of tngri together and links it to Ursa Major, read Pegg 2001, p. 116 et seq. which will give you an overview. Pegg cites Heisig amongst others. Uncle G (talk) 20:21, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
  • Note that the Mongolian and the Tibetan are interrelated. As now noted on Sagaan Ubgen, he became the Tibetan sgan po dkar po by order of the Dalai Lama. Some of the other Buddhist deities depicted in Tibetan Buddhist cham are also syncretisms:
    • Makhakala is a syncretism of one of the tngri, Gûjir Tngri (Oxtoby 1996, p. 474) (Neumann Fridman 2004, p. 136) a.k.a. Güǰir Künkür Tngri.
    • Begze Suren (a.k.a. Begze a.k.a. Beg-Tse) the "red protector" is the brother of Okin Tngri (Cotterell 1999, p. 173).
  • Uncle G (talk) 08:47, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
    • Well, I'm afraid I might have to renege on my promise to work on another article for the Mongolian shamanism task force; due to a death in the family, my wikitime will likely have to be minimized for the next few days. I will probably have enough time to complete anything I need to do for the DYK nomination, so let me know what I need to do for that if/when the times comes, but I don't think I'll have any for real content expansion. Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 18:34, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
      • Writ Keeper, I'm sorry to hear that. All the best. In the meantime, I have put up a duplicate DYK nomination, Template:Did you know nominations/Qormusata Tngri. If you find the time or the inclination to review a DYK nomination, please add it there. If you don't I'll take care of it. Uncle et al, more tngri can of course be added. Drmies (talk) 02:54, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

stuff in Mongolian and pictures

We don't know what these have to tell us:

• Ж.Ерөөлт (2012-07-16). "Цагаан өвгөн". МОЛОМ (in Mongolian).
• Х.Аянга (2012-07-25). "Дашчойлон хийдэд Хүрээ цамын зан үйл эхлэв". ShuuD.mn (in Mongolian).
• Б. Сэргэлэн (2009). "Цагаан өвгөний дүр монгол туурагтны урлагт". ЭСҮГИЙН БЛОГ (in Mongolian). {{cite web}}: Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)

If only there were some Mongolian-reading Wikipedia editors around here!

Furthermore, look at the pictures in those articles. They aren't free content, alas! If only there were some Wikipedia editors actually currently in Mongolia around here who could take some free content pictures of these tsam characters, eh? On the matter of pictures, here are two paintings:

• Цагаан өвгөн at Mongolian Art — Hey look! An elderly man with a white beard, a dragon-headed staff, some deer, and a peach tree. If only it were free content!
• Begze at Mongolian Art — Hey look! 44 thingies in the sky. That seems a familiar number.

Note the blurb by Eva Gerhards in the latter. Everyone knows that German is just like Dutch, ne? ☺

Uncle G (talk) 08:47, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

• Nice little blurb--that is, nice little explication of the image. There is no explanation of the 44, though. Note where the image is: Freiburg, where my friend, an editor with the MGH, lives. Beautiful city. But I have no doubt that K-stick will run out and start clicking. Drmies (talk) 02:35, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
  • Are you trying to drop a hint Uncle G? Want me to have a translator look at that for you? The first and third are blocked in my current location as a blogspot link, but I opened the second. I am restricted as to what I can take pictures of, unless you are into industrical construction...I can get a summary of the articles fairly easily, but a direct translation would take some time. --kelapstick^(bainuu) 02:52, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
    • Not just to you. The waves of silence originating from Wikipedia:WikiProject Mongols/Members after I dropped notes at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Central Asia and Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Mongols are deafening. Is the fact that you cannot photograph tsam because they are religious ceremonies? Or is it because you are not a tourist? Tsam appears on quite a number of Mongolia tour brochures. Uncle G (talk) 19:04, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
    • Just had someone in and Дашчойлон is a monistary in UB, and the title is about a religous ceremony going on at there. --kelapstick^(bainuu) 02:56, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
      • Yes. It's tsam dance and that's a dancer in a Sagaan Ubgen costume. That much is apparent from the picture and the fact that Цагаан өвгөн occurs in paragraph 11. The rest of the content is opaque. It could be a valuable insight into modern tsam and a pointer to further areas that the article doesn't touch upon. It could tell me nothing that I don't already have covered. I simply don't know. Uncle G (talk) 19:04, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
      • Did you want me to get this translated today? I might be able to sweet talk someone here into doing it for me. Fortunately a little chocolate goes a long way into getting things in this country. --kelapstick^(bainuu) 21:39, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
        • It looks like it's a news article by a cable TV company, so I'm interested in it. But I'm interested in the other two as well. Б. Сэргэлэн claims to have a Ph.D., so it's worth evaluating, at least. There's a copy of it here if you're allowed to see web logs that are actually in Mongolia. ☺ Uncle G (talk) 19:04, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
          • It's not that I can't see weblogs in Mongolia, it's that I can't access them at my desk. That last one was blocked too. --kelapstick^(bainuu) 06:25, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

Doctor Hook

See Wikipedia talk:Did you know#Mongolian shamanism. Uncle G (talk) 12:14, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

• Maybe we have to write up some Mongolian feast day as an occasion to run them. Drmies (talk) 14:41, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

• I saw that discussion, and I think that's probably exactly what would have to happen, or else save them for on that already exists on en.wp, such as Tsagaan Sar, but that's not until February. LadyofShalott 20:08, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

• And you just missed Naadam. I should be here for Tsagaan Sar this year. It's always a good time! --kelapstick^(bainuu) 01:04, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

• I just got invited to my first Mongolian wedding. I am told that it is somewhere near 47.9020°N 106.5060°W / 47.9020; -106.5060. Going to see if I can swing it. --kelapstick^(bainuu) 05:20, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

Request.

• Hi Drmies, would you please full protect the article Muhammad Iqbal for some time. I have posted request for comment on its talk page, but I am sure the act of revertion will be continued.Last edit is this and that is not controversial. Thanks.Justice007 (talk) 14:50, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
• Hello Justice--sorry, but I can't do that right now in the absence of a real edit-war. That revert by DocTropics seems uncontroversial indeed: they are copy edits and improve the article. For instance, few people will know what "Quaid-i-Azam" means, so "the founder of Pakistan" is a valid substitution. I see also that there is active discussion on the talk page. You are free to ask someone else's opinion (at WP:RFPP), and maybe some of the stalkers have an opinion as well. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 15:40, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
• OK, thanks. Justice007 (talk) 15:45, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

Socks

Threatening to sock? Naughty naughty. ;) GiantSnowman 15:52, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

• Well, ban me and see what I'm made of. But really, my alternate accounts are all ArbCom approved (of course, with my other accounts I actually make up one third of ArbCom). Drmies (talk) 17:05, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Michael Blakey

Orlady (talk) 16:03, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

• You would be proud Drmies, finally got my second DYK today (Yadkin-Pee Dee river basin), which brings my average up to one every 3 years. And I hit #2001 in the list of the most active Wikipedians, next week should finally in the top 2000. (SPI is killing my number of edits per day, but someone has to do it.) I suck just a little bit less today. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 01:58, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

• Well done, Dennis! LadyofShalott 02:21, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

Category:Female suicides

Category:Female suicides, which you created, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 20:22, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Hello. There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Peacemaker67 (talk) 06:23, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Kruger v. Krugers

Is Krugers a viable family name in Europe? Most sources spell the subject I'm writing about with an S, but I can't find any proof its an actual name. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 06:27, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

• Well, according to the German nurse, it is. I've never heard it. Drmies (talk) 06:44, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

• Guess I'll move G. Kruger to G. Krugers then; strange how we don't have any Krugerses on Wiki. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 06:48, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

And yet this has Kruger... — Crisco 1492 (talk) 06:51, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

• Gbooks gave me a couple of examples of "Krugers" as a last name in some scholarly collections, so it's certainly a possibility. Drmies (talk) 06:53, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

• Argh. Any suggestions? Neither Indonesian nor English sources agree on what to call him. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 06:57, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

• Well, the link you just gave, to that encyclopedia, that's published by Routledge and is thus pretty authoritative. Drmies (talk) 07:03, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

• Yeah, Abel vs. Misbach. Both pretty well known in their fields (Misbach had a lot published internationally, apparently). — Crisco 1492 (talk) 07:09, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Human baby

This is a newborn human baby, 3063 g, 51 cm, male. Born 17 August 2012, 7:24 AM.

Congratulations, Drmies!!! LadyofShalott 17:43, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

D'awwwww. Congratulations! Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 17:59, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

1968? Must be you. Bielle (talk) 18:09, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Yes, that was indeed my own birthday. Please don't be doing any math. In my defense, I haven't had a lot of food or sleep recently. Drmies (talk) 18:20, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

You may not have had a lot of food or sleep, but you were answering questions here apparently in the hour preceding your son's birth. I am surprised that Mrs Drmies didn't have something unfriendly to say about that. However, none of the takes away from wishing a warm welcome to the newest "SonofDrmeis" Bielle (talk) 18:27, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

You're still younger than me, but not by much. Congrats, in particular to Mrs. Drmies, who did all the real work. If we men had to do what the ladies do just to bring life into this world, the species would have ceased to exist eons ago. Thank goodness for the ladies. Oh, and you need to register DrmiesJr now, for his future. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 18:28, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Congratulations! He's really cute. :) Keilana|^{Parlez ici} 18:56, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Congrats! Awwwwwwwww, I remember when he was just a blueberry.... MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 19:38, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

As I told Khazar recently: the best news, precious new life! What's ArbCom? Nothing that really matters, in the light of this peaceful face. Hug mother and son please, softly, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:35, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Awwwwww. Congrats! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Montanabw (talk • contribs) 20:45, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Sweet. --Orlady (talk) 20:53, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

(edit conflict) WOW ... Absolutely beautiful Drmies ... good job. Congrats. — ChedZILLA 20:55, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Congratulations, Drmies! Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 21:17, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Heaps of congrats from me as well. The things you youngsters get up to! --RexxS (talk) 21:45, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Many Many Congratulations to you the Missus. A real cutie. Should we be expecting his first edits within the next couple weeks? :-) MarnetteD | Talk 21:47, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Congratulations! All the very best wishes, it's the best...Modernist (talk) 21:53, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Congrats Doc. He couldn't ask for a better father. Ed ^{[talk] [majestic titan]} 22:15, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Support Nobody Ent 22:53, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

• Like. I'll have my own little Crisco in a couple years. Maybe they can be Wikibuddies? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:48, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
• Look, a little ankle-biter. Kawaii! Bishonen | talk 00:08, 18 August 2012 (UTC).
• Congratulations! Elen of the Roads (talk) 00:10, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
• Congratulations, Drmies, on your fantastic fourth! We had our first, a beautiful daughter, last Saturday. Now I know happiness and sleep deprivation! Kiefer.Wolfowitz 00:47, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
• Congratulations - looks just like his dad! Johnbod (talk) 00:47, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
• Grats! If this is the first one, then your next few weeks months years, probably decades, will be a bit rough but an extraordinary and awesome experience (if it's not the first one, same thing is true, but then you probably already know that).VolunteerMarek 01:14, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
• Thats' cute. Congrats! TheSpecialUser ^TSU 01:27, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
• You're right, Drmies, he DOES look just like a future admin. Congratulations.--Bbb23 (talk) 01:43, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
• Congratulations!! -- I hope Mom is doing well. Beyond My Ken (talk) 01:49, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
• Congrats Drmies! You have a beautiful baby. Ryan Vesey 02:34, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
• Congratulations to you and your family! — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 03:24, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

Thank you all--it is really wonderful to see all these nice messages from these nice people, many of whom I have spent a great deal of time with in the last couple of years, and from many of whom I have learned a lot, and with many of whom I've written cool things. Little Liam and his mother are doing well; apparently the boy nurses like a vacuum cleaner, haha. The girls will get to sleep in mama's bed tonight cause they miss her terribly, and the youngest sings made-up songs about (you guessed it) pooping in diapers. On a side note, some of you may not know what meconium is: the stickiest substance to ever come out of the human body, and I cleaned up a huge heap of it. Kiefer mentions happiness and sleep deprivation; it's a powerful combination. (Hang in there Kiefer--when it's over you'll miss it.) Those of you who have children will know this overwhelming gulf of emotion that can wipe even the toughest admin (ahem) off the mat. If you don't, it's worth it. Alright, back to Mongolian shamanism, everybody. Thanks again for all the notes you all left me; I'll keep you in mind when I need a babysitter. Drmies (talk) 02:18, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

• Strong Keep - While perhaps not yet notable for inclusion on an individual Wikipedia article, community consensus is that he is adorable! ;0) OliverTwisted ^(Talk)(Stuff) 03:45, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
• (edit conflict) I'm a bit late, but congrats! --Dylan620 ^{(I'm all ears)} 03:46, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
• With my good wishes, Tito Dutta ✉ 04:00, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
• The article boy was lacking an infant boy image. It is no longer. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 12:44, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
  • ;) Drmies (talk) 19:43, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

• Just remember, when he becomes Wikipedia's youngest admin (who holds the record now?), he (and his daddy) will not be able to edit that article because of an obvious conflict.--Bbb23 (talk) 14:11, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

• re: who holds the record now?. Physically? Emotionally? Mentally? Note: that's a rhetorical question. — Ched :  ?  01:37, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

• He is beautiful. Many, many congratulations. --John (talk) 14:29, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
• Congratulations. :-) --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 18:49, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
• Congrats to you and Mrsmies! Kafka Liz (talk) 21:18, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
• Congrats! Nikkimaria (talk) 04:38, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
• Congrats! :) - Neutralhomer • Talk • 05:52, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
• Congratulations Drmies! Mr.Wikipediania (Stalk • Talk) 06:10, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
• Hey, I'm late :( But cheers and congrats! All the best wishes for you and your family and especially the super-cool super baby! Awwwwwwwesome! Dipankan ^{(Have a chat?)} 06:23, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
• Congratulations! TheStrikeΣagle 06:59, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
• Congrats doc, I'll send the dog over to sit the kids if you and Mrs Drmies need some time off. —SpacemanSpiff 07:04, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
  • Hey Spiffy, why not send over one of those models you used to hang out with? Mrs. Drmies is out of commission for a while. Drmies (talk) 18:08, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

File:Teddy bear.JPG

Teddy bear for the baby :) --DBigXray 07:50, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

• Congrats Mr and Mrs. Drmies, Please give these teddy bears to the cute one. --DBigXray 07:50, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
• Gefeliciteerd, in de dromen, nog steeds in de dromen. (Congratulations, in the dreams, still in the dreams.)-Justice007 (talk) 10:57, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
  • Dankjewel Justice, dat is erg aardig van je. Ik hoop dat die jongen een beetje van poezie gaat houden. Drmies (talk) 18:08, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
• A late congrats; as you know it wont be Wikipedia causing you to lose sleep over the next three months. Kierzek (talk) 17:35, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

Huggable spotted Tiktaalik plushy for the baby, from a well-wisher

• Congratulations Drmies! I'm sure you'll be an excellent father! He's so cute! Electric Catfish 20:46, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

Why is this coming out in small text? Electric Catfish 20:50, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

A span style was making the text small. Ryan Vesey 20:52, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

• Excellent news, Drmies. Slightly belated congrats to you and your growing family. Enjoy. --Floquenbeam (talk) 23:51, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
• Congrats. Having (at least) one of them should be a requirement for all administrators. :) Meowy 00:13, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
• Congrats! :) -- OBSIDIAN†SOUL 00:21, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

• How cute is that? Pesky (talk) 08:59, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
• A little late, but I must offer my congratulations as well. :) I'll add that my youngest sibling looked like this only a few months ago: It's quite a sight. Nolelover ^{Talk·Contribs} 01:57, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

• Congratulations! What an excellent news!.. All the best for the baby and his family... --E4024 (talk) 12:22, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
• All the clever things have been taken, so ... congratulations! - Dank (push to talk) 01:36, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
• Aww, he's just cute! :') A boat that can float! (watch me float!) 05:51, 26 August 2012 (UTC)
• CONGRATS!!! You new dad! He's a fine boy! PumpkinSky talk 13:11, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Henrik Vibskov

Hello! Your submission of Henrik Vibskov at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and there still are some issues that may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Maile66 (talk) 14:34, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

--Need a QPQ review for nomination. Everything else is fine. Maile66 (talk) 14:34, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

• That was already done; see comments at the nomination entry. Thank you, Drmies (talk) 19:41, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

I apologize for this. I missed seeing the QPQ. Maile66 (talk) 20:33, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

No apology necessary, Maile66--thanks for the review, I'm glad someone picked it up. Drmies (talk) 20:46, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

Celtic supporters

Hi drmies. Do you think you could look at Celtic F.C. supporters if you have time. Thank you 220.255.1.162 (talk) 16:16, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

• Well, I did look at it, and I don't have much to say. I noticed a steamy talk page discussion, which I'm not so interested in, and the article had a rather silly section about some Norwegian fans. Sorry, but as I get older I get less and less of an urge to help the irredeemable; if this mess is contained to this article I'm fine with it. With my apologies. Drmies (talk) 14:12, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

Congratulations

	Diapers!
	I have a feeling you're going to need these....all of these for your new family member :) Congratulations!! SarahStierch (talk) 20:46, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

• Hehehe. I've already had to scrub the carpet. The boy has a range of a foot and a half. Thanks! Do you have any of these humans yourself? Drmies (talk) 22:10, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

• Is that like Humanz? :-) — Ched :  ?  01:32, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

If this is your first, you have no idea what you are in for. To be honest, try to enjoy this time. They grow up faster than you can believe. Happily my two oldest are married and out of the house. :-D Congrats! --Defensor Ursa 05:20, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

• Many congrats from me, too. My oldest is just getting to the teenager stage, and you can imagine what that entails, but they are all awesome. I'm sure yours will be too. :) Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me} 05:27, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
  • Ha, I'll take that optimistic note and file it somewhere safe. Ours are nicely spaced--0, 3, and 6--and it's fun to see them interact. The girls love their new baby brother and I hope they don't break him. Drmies (talk) 14:17, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

	Pony!
	If I could ship one in the mail, this would be heading your way! :) Congratulations!! Montanabw(talk) 22:36, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

A Teddy Bear For Your Baby!

File:Teddy bear 27.jpg	A Teddy Bear!
	Congratulations! Electric Catfish 20:53, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

Sockpuppetry, moi?

I think it's amusing this is happening on the anniversary of Trotsky's assassination. Talk about overzealousness, although it will be nice to see the egg on this individual's face once the accusations are thoroughly disproved. - Biruitorul ^Talk 14:58, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

• No, not you. Drmies (talk) 15:11, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

Sidewalk Cafe/Café

Evening Drmies. I'd flagged Sidewalk Café for deletion on the basis that the author considered it a genuine mistake on his/her part, especially in blanking it and stating as much on their talk page. I've also fixed their userspace after they mistakenly tagged it for deletion; I assume the vandalism warning was also a mistake? Cheers, Mephistophelian (talk) 18:10, 20 August 2012 (UTC).

• See User talk:Freecheesepizza where I explained to the author what I did and why (it's now a redirect). Thanks, Drmies (talk) 18:12, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

That's fine. Best, Mephistophelian (talk) 18:23, 20 August 2012 (UTC).

DYK for Henrik Vibskov

Graeme Bartlett (talk) 08:02, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

Note

Hello. There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Monkeymanman (talk) 08:08, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads up, I'm back for 3 days then off again from Thursday night until Monday sometime. I'll monitor until then. Thanks, GiantSnowman 14:26, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, I appreciate it. Drmies (talk) 14:27, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

Tamsier

See Talk:Saafi people#Deleted material on Serer Symbols and User talk:Eladynnus#Raampa. Dougweller (talk) 15:16, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

Watchlist feedback

Have you had a look? My personal favorite. I am sure Baby Mies (talk · contribs) will be able to help with it. --kelapstick^(bainuu) 01:12, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

• Still can't believe they got rid of the moose. And Zeke! Zeke was cute! Baby M. can poop like nobody's business. I just took the three bags with diapers out: they were heavy. He's been home a day and a half. You doin' OK, K? I think of you in that magical windswept country. Drmies (talk) 02:35, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
• If you have been following Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive239#New watchlist feature you'll know that poo is one of the three staples of article feedback: porn, 'phone numbers, and poo. Uncle G (talk) 08:01, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
  • Everything comes down to poo Bgwhite (talk) 08:21, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
    • Ahem Doc, it is Zee not Zeke, and he was very cute. In Aus we had Giggle and Hoot, and Hoot was awesome, along with his friend Hootabelle. BG is right, it always comes down to poop, I am surprised that there isn't more about Justin Bieber though. --kelapstick^(bainuu) 09:18, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
  • I had carefully avoided clicking on the watchlist feedback link, but, prompted by this discussion, I finally took a look. I was shocked! Almost none of it was unconstructive. No poop in any form at all. Those who go to the art articles that dominate my watchlist must simply be a very intelligent and refined class of people. Incidentally, I'm not really clear on why this is being discussed at AN, but I didn't read most of it, so maybe it's explained there. MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 10:05, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
    • You're making the common mistake of not checking the intersection between your watchlist and Category:Article Feedback 5 before drawing conclusions. Hie thee to Special:ArticleFeedbackV5 to see the trickle that will, when 22 thousand articles becomes 4 million articles, become a flood. Don't forget to help this reader, action this request, and respond to this request for a telephone number. You do, after all, have the "reviewer" flag and so are one of the people who are being handed the task of dealing with 170,000 such currently visible feedback items. ☺ Uncle G (talk) 11:21, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
      • I don't know if you all care or realize, but I have no idea what all y'all are talking about. Is there yet another layer of commentary/function that I should be paying attention to? I joined Wikipedia because I don't care what others say! I'm a loner! Drmies (talk) 14:16, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
        • I'm a loner, Dottie. A rebel. Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 14:28, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
          • Welcome back, Writ Keeper. Hope you are well. Drmies (talk) 17:37, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
            • I'm all right; not fully back yet though. The logistics side of things has calmed down a bit (close relatives of the deceased stationed half a world away is no joking matter), which is why I can spend a little time here, but the funeral etc. is yet to come, so until then, I still won't be able to spend much time here. I try to spend it doing things that'll cheer me up a bit, like writing this script, but then I find myself wrapped up in things like this and it doesn't work quite as well as I might've hoped. My bellyaching aside, thanks for your well-wishes, and your work on the DYK. I still feel a little bad about leaving you out to dry on that, but it happens, I suppose. :P Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 17:47, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

• If you wike MickO'Pedia, pwease take a wook at ElmerFuddopedia. MANdAWAX • XAWAbИAM 20:49, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

• I'm gonna be honest, the only other translation I really wish I had is one into chefspeak. There might be one, I'll have to look. Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 20:53, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

• Coincidentally, in going through the feedback items I've already flagged one for oversight where the person had left xyr name, telephone number, and medical details. Notice that both of the absence of spacebar cases mentioned on the Administrators' noticeboard are looking for information about pharmaceuticals.

  If you are looking for cheery stuff to do, first look at Special:ArticleFeedbackv5/Street Map/288381 and then see what the Street Map article is about, then consider the relative merits of Beaver pipes (AfD discussion) versus flow device.

  Uncle G (talk) 19:47, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

• I think it is a damned if you do and damned if you don't situation. On one hand it is a very good idea to get feedback on what other think about articles. On the hand, when dealing with the general public, especially anonymous public, you are going crap, err, poo. There is no way around it. Like Mandarax, I don't have "popular" articles in my watchlist and I have gotten good constructive criticism. I'd hate to have Obama and Romney in my watchlist. I think WMF spent to much time on the design on AFT and not enough on what to do with the crap. Personally, I'd like to see the AFT comments be deleted after a certain amount of time. This week's Signpost op-ed by MZBcBride is a good read on the subject. Bgwhite (talk) 22:15, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

• I created a redirect based upon some feeback left on Beacon Press. There are certainly some useful comments, but there are indeed the "poo" ones as well. I don't have the faintest idea what the moodbar is. LadyofShalott 22:57, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

No surprise here

[1] and the talk page. Dougweller (talk) 15:43, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

Colorful but what is it?

User:Dogman40.--Bbb23 (talk) 23:54, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

• It's a person who, like Kevo1cat (talk · contribs) and Koevanuda (talk · contribs) before, thinks that Wikipedia is no different from this wiki. See also Koevanuda (talk · contribs) on Meta and User talk:Koevanuda on yet another wiki. Uncle G (talk) 00:34, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
  • I feel like I don't "know" you at all, but the breadth of things you know (or figure out) on Wikipedia is amazing. Oh, I like the rationale for the block of Kevo1cat ("pointless edits"). I may end up using that. Thanks.--Bbb23 (talk) 00:41, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
    • Most of what Uncle says is Greek to me. Drmies (talk) 01:40, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
      • We have to rely upon M. Chapstick for the Mongolian, though. Uncle G (talk) 22:19, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

• Pooh, I think you all understand each other or at least pretend you do, whether it be in English, Dutch, German, or Mongolian. Witless waffle, indeed.--Bbb23 (talk) 00:14, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

• My eyes! The goggles do nothing! Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 15:59, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

Invitation/Asking your contribution

Heated discussion on the renaming of this article. Maybe the article is not very interesting in itself but there is quite an example of a debate on the principle of naming conventions on its talk page. Everybody most welcome. --E4024 (talk) 12:19, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

• Thanks. Interesting indeed, but I'll be on the sideline. One thing, though, someone mentioned the NYT--look at this search: all but a few are to the exact same slide show. Then look at this search. Drmies (talk) 14:42, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

I see that there was a forest fire in "Tenedos" in 1874... Thanks for your reply. --E4024 (talk) 14:55, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

Actually, the town was destroyed. The Governor of Tenedos reported on Turkish battleships being destroyed in 1912, Turkish prisoners reported on heavy Turkish losses in 1915, there were naval engagements between Greeks and Turks near Tenedos in 1913, a hill on Tenedos offered a spectacular view of naval warfare in 1915, a German plane flew over Tenedos in March 1915, Patriarch Demetrios I of Constantinople was "Archbishop of Imbros and Tenedos" just before he was elected patriarch in 1972, et cetera. Drmies (talk) 15:09, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

better than you?

Well, we'll never know. I guess the ones of you didn't meet your standards for a userpage portrait? Congrats on the boy, though!!!!!!! I wonder how long that will stick at the top. Did you engineer that placement?--Sage Ross (WMF) (talk) 18:18, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

• Nope, one of the kind souls who frequent this talk page did. Yeah, I didn't put any portraits up on my own user page: my dazzling beauty would distract too many people from the high quality of my edits. Also, I'm afraid that the increased traffic (to a pretty big page) would cause the servers to overload. Hey, after four days he was back at birth weight plus one ounce. A giant among babies! Drmies (talk) 18:33, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

List of Twitter users in India

Just what you wanted huh?♦ Dr. Blofeld 20:36, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

• Yes! Actually, I'm waiting for Todd Akin on Twitter. Drmies (talk) 14:15, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

Serer

See my edits at Serer people. I also moved "States headed by ancient Serer Lamanes" to "States headed by Serer Lamanes". If the Serer originated in an 11 century split from a group that had converted to Islam, and "may have been Pulaar-speaking herders when they left the Fuuta" we have a real problem. In any case, this view must be represented. I've ordered [2] from Amazon. This whole emphasis on 'ancient' is pov. I'm supposed to be asleep, so no more right now. Dougweller (talk) 03:13, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

• Thanks for the note, Dougweller. Can't you order from the library? Much cheaper. Let me know if I can be of bibliographic help. Drmies (talk) 03:19, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

Timeline of Serer history is probably the trickiest, as it assumes Gravrand's analysis (if it's reported correctly) is correct. And, for instance, if you look at 800 AD : The Serer State of Sanghāna, the source is reported correctly Trimingham has that in a timeline. But the original source for anything called Sanghana is al-Bakri, who wrote that it is "une grande ville sise sur les deux rives du fleuve grouillante et florissante et dont les terres" which seems to be a quote and explains other references to it as a town. Somewhere along the line after al=Bakri it became referred to as a country, and how it got called Seerer I don't know but there can't be solid evidence for that. I just don't know how to rewrite the Timeline in a way that respects the sources and is NPOV. Dougweller (talk) 05:47, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

LOL

Cursing my own mistake mostly, I should have rechecked it but I kept having people edit so fast and having to copy/paste things back in to the Edit Conflict screens that I missed two of the bracket sets to make the links paste small rather than super long. Thanks for the laugh, though! :D

• You're welcome. Keep the faith! Drmies (talk) 05:03, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Kalervo Kurkiala

Casliber (talk · contribs) 08:03, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

Kingdom of Sine and sources request

The French and English articles on the Kingdom of Sine say it was renamed and existed before the 14th century under some other name. The German version says "Before 1400 Maisa Wali Jon fled Kaabu and founded Sine. His descendants formed the Guelwar dynasty." Sources for the renaming claim are a and b Alioune Sarr, History of the Sine-Saloum (Senegal). Introduction, bibliography and notes by Charles Becker. Slightly modified version compared to that published in 1986-87. pp 19-22 and Sarr, Alioune , History of the Sine-Saloum , Introduction, Notes and Bibliography by Charles Becker, BIFAN , Volume 46, Series B, No. 3-4, 1986-1987. pp 21-22

On the other hand, I find "kingdom of Sine. One of three Serer kingdoms to emerge between the fourteenth and the sixteenth centuries, Sine survived as an independent state in various permutations until the colonial conquest.22 " - and that's sourced to Gravrand! the footnote says "22 Gravrand, La Civilisation Sereer: Cosaan, 55, lists these kingdoms and their periods of origin. One of the two other kingdoms, Djonik, disappeared early, while the third, Saloum, lasted along with Sine into the colonial period."

So this is a bit of a mess and we need to see what the source actually says.

If you can get them, I could use http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/1581646?uid=3738032&uid=2&uid=4&sid=21101147403501 and http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/1771690?uid=3738032&uid=2129&uid=2&uid=70&uid=4&sid=21101147403501 - thanks. Dougweller (talk) 08:19, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

• YGM. Drmies (talk) 14:14, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

Not yet. Dougweller (talk) 20:44, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

DYK for IBT Labs

I missed the discussion on this DYK by a few hours, but still wanted to drop by and say thanks for the reminder. ¦;-)   — C M B J   08:57, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

help requested

Can you take a look at User talk:EMEONE and Concealed carry in the United States I am trying to help the guy, but I am somewhat out of my depth regarding the interaction of policies, and want to make sure I am not overstepping and set the guy in the right direction. Thanks. Gaijin42 (talk) 15:45, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

A similar issue (from the same editor) is at Golden_hour_(medicine) where he added a large section using himself as a source. Its not quite WP:OR since he quoting himself from a book, but it doesn't smell right to me. I dont want to WP:BITE him too hard though. Gaijin42 (talk) 16:20, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

I commented on the user talk page. Bite or not, I think the section should be removed from the latter article as well--but it begs the question of what to do with the rest of the (mostly unverified) information. That's always the problem with bad articles... BTW, quoting yourself from a book that's not published by a reputable publishing company does constitute OR. Drmies (talk) 18:13, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

If you are refering to my last edit where I struck the OR link, I did say "otherwise reliable" at the end to try and cover that, but what I had originally said was in conflict with Wikipedia:Expert_editors #2 in warnings. Ill take the content out of golden hour, I don't know what else to do with it either. Thanks for the second opinion. Gaijin42 (talk) 18:19, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

Reading suggestion

I recently read "Fear of a Black President", by Ta-Nehisi Coates in The Atlantic. I thought it was well-written and thought-provoking (although a small part of me thinks that when a writer uses "semaphore" as a verb, he's trying too hard). Anyhow, a lot of the piece deals with the Trayvon Martin case, and reminded me of this conversation we had on the subject a while ago. The piece makes what I thought were some very insightful points - for example, the idea that racism isn't a "simplistic hatred", but rather "broad sympathy toward some and broader skepticism toward others" - which I thought were applicable specifically to a lot of the discussion at Talk:Shooting of Trayvon Martin. Anyhow, thought you might enjoy reading it - you know, in your copious free time. Cheers. MastCell ^Talk 18:01, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

• Thanks--I remember that conversation well. Fortunately The Atlantic is not stingy and I printed the article so I have something to do over the weekend, besides everything else. Have a great weekend. Drmies (talk) 18:25, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

DYK

I don't think I'm going to have Dayisun Tngri long enough for DYK in time (it may have already passed even), but maybe it could be thrown in one of the other Mongolian shamanism hooks, not as a bolded article, but just as one of the blue links. Feel free to do so or not as you like. LadyofShalott 19:58, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

• Are you going to chime in at Wikipedia talk:Did you know#Mongolian shamanism? On the subject of missing articles: I've just turned up pest management thanks to the AFD discussion of Pestology (AfD discussion). ISBN 9781420053616 is one volume of a multiple-volume encyclopaedia in its own right on the subject. Uncle G (talk) 21:52, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
  • Probably not - sorry, I just don't care that much if the hooks are run separately or together. We seem to have pest control. I'll redirect Pest management there. LadyofShalott 22:04, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
    • They're not the same thing, at least according to many of the books I've been skimming through today after finding that encyclopaedia. Pest control is part of pest management, which in turn is a topic that encompasses integrated pest management. The dangling hyperlink was a good thing. ☺ Uncle G (talk) 22:21, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

• Hmmm... sounded like the same thing to me, but I freely admit it's not an area I know that much about. By all means, take that redirect and turn it into an article (at least a stub) if the redirect is truly inaccurate. LadyofShalott 22:31, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Mongolian shamanism

Casliber (talk · contribs) 00:03, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Yellow shamanism

Casliber (talk · contribs) 00:04, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Black shamanism

Casliber (talk · contribs) 00:04, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Sagaan Ubgen

Casliber (talk · contribs) 00:05, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Ongon

Casliber (talk · contribs) 00:06, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Dayan Deerh

Casliber (talk · contribs) 00:07, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Tngri

Casliber (talk · contribs) 00:08, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

A bowl of airag for you!

	Drink at your own risk
	For your efforts in expanding Mongolia-related content, please accept this bowl of fermented mare's milk, a traditional Mongolian drink. I would suggest starting off slow. kelapstick(bainuu) 00:59, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

• And just in case you weren't wary enough, kumis is Indonesian for moustache as well. Enjoy! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:08, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

• Have you had it, K? Is it tasty? Drmies (talk) 01:17, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

• Short answer. Yes I have, and no it isn't. It tastes exactly as you would imagine. Like drinking sour milk, but from a horse. --kelapstick^(bainuu) 01:33, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

• Sour milk. Man. Probably better than sour bullshit on one's talk page, though. But at least it's fermented--does that make it any better at all? Drmies (talk) 01:35, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

• Done deal. I'm heading to my first Mongolian wedding. I saw pictures of the venue, it looks like a lovely ger in the countryside. Should be a great time! Bring on the Chinggis Khan Vodka! I'm also going to see if I can swing Wikimania in Hong Kong next year, schedule pending. Even if I have to take a few days off work. It's a short flight from here. I expect to see you and the lady there. --kelapstick^(bainuu) 13:19, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

Some pig guts for Dennis

• I know it is good for us to embrace other cultures and not judge, but I think I just threw up a little in the back of my throat. Then again, I remember a TV show where some Brits were in the jungle, grossing out over the locals eating monkey meat, and the locals were grossing out over them eating canned spaghetti because it looked like bloody guts. It is all relative, I suppose. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 13:21, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

• Maybe we should also embrace our own culture. Dennis, I cooked you up a batch of chitlins. If you're lucky, there's a swine asshole in your bowl! Look carefully! K, how was the wedding? Drmies (talk) 14:57, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

• Not till the 26th of September. One of my Engineers wants to take me fishing. Despite my lack of interest in fishing it would be a nice time to take a look at some of the country, I don't spend much time outside the Gobi and Ulaanbaatar. Although I would prefer a trip to the shooting range to rattle off some AK-47 rounds and fire an RPG. --kelapstick^(bainuu) 21:21, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

• My maternal grandfather loved chitlins, and my grandmother would cook them for him, though I don't think anyone else in the house would touch them. My mother always said that they smelled like what they used to contain. LadyofShalott 22:53, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

• Yeah, I think I'll go without. Lady, the pool is looking great and Rosie has a few tricks to show you (one of them is called the "hipover"). When are you coming by? Drmies (talk) 00:05, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

• The hipover, I think I saw that in the synchronized swimming at the Olympics. My daughter took her first voluntary dip in the ocean yesterday (as opposed to saying Nooooooo! when being asked if she wanted to go swimming). --kelapstick^(bainuu) 00:30, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

• Yeah, I'll pass on the chitlins as well. That pool and ocean both sound nice! LadyofShalott 00:38, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

Also, can you believe that the bar jacked the price of beer up ₮50. Not that I object to the 4¢ increas, it's just that now I have all these ₮50 notes in my pocket that it takes planning to get rid of. --kelapstick^(bainuu) 04:23, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

• Given my druthers, I would be more inclined to eat chitlins than drink sour horse milk. I've eaten squirrel, turtle, rabbit, deer, dove, and all kinds of wild game growing up, and grandma used to eat chitlins. I would want to scrub them really, really well though. You can't scrub the nasty out of spoiled milk. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 14:46, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

• "You can't scrub the nasty out of spoiled milk." - That should be a bumper sticker... or something. LadyofShalott 16:46, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

• It's better than "Women drive the economy"--a bumper sticker supporting Romney's campaign. Drmies (talk) 17:38, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

• Considering the state of the economy, are they blaming stereotypical Women drivers? Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 15:34, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

• ...and yes, I enjoy danging red links in front of Drmies. The last one was on Lady's page and worked rather swimmingly. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 18:09, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

• Beans, beans, beans, beans, beans! For shame, Dennis! LadyofShalott 22:46, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

• Well, arguably, there is an article to be written about the stereotype over the years, especially since it doesn't appear to be true via women's insurance rates being lower, so I wasn't being insincere. We have articles on other incorrect stereotypes as well. But yes, it would ruffle a few petticoats but could very likely be sourced :) If he didn't have a cute, new, little poop machine to play with, he probably would already have written it by now. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 01:37, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

Did you email me?

Because if you did, I didn't receive it. I've been working hard on the Serer stuff, which is a real mess, worse than I thought. Dougweller (talk) 10:50, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

• Yes--twice now... Drmies (talk) 14:19, 26 August 2012 (UTC)
• And now thrice. Send me an email back, to see if I got the address right--but they haven't been returned to me. Drmies (talk) 14:54, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

• Return to sender. :) — Ched :  ?  21:33, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

• Ched, when I first heard that song we didn't have ZIP codes yet where I lived. None of it made sense to me. Drmies (talk) 00:03, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

• I'd mention dating yourself .. but those age comments always seem to boomerang on me. — Ched :  ?  12:03, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

• Ched, I'm a married human--I don't have to date myself anymore. Drmies (talk) 17:41, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

• Mrs. Drmies just had a baby. Time to get to know yourself all over again, at least for the next 6 to 12 weeks. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 01:39, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

A bit of help

Hi Drmies. I've been working on this, articles 101-120 today. I did some on the Int'l Scouting Collector's Association entry, but for the two left, I'm not quite sure what to do there. Could you look at the two diffs left for that article? Thank you. PumpkinSky talk 13:04, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

• Uh-oh. Drmies (talk) 14:22, 26 August 2012 (UTC)
• Yes, I will have to delete the entire article. I saved you a skeleton: User:PumpkinSky/memorabilia. I left the talk page; if you put up a new, clean version ASAP, we're all good. Thanks for the note. Drmies (talk) 14:32, 26 August 2012 (UTC)
• I made you something else, good for another DYK: Alcatraz Gang. Drmies (talk) 14:51, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

Well, for ISCJ, at least I knew enough to ask this time. I don't think I'll do anything with the skeleton.Thanks for the new article. Thanks for helping at CCI.PumpkinSky talk 18:53, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

No, go on and fill in a couple of words and sentences and get it back on the Wikipedia map! Some coverage is better than no coverage. Drmies (talk) 20:53, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

The Mongolia Barnstar of National Merit

		The Mongolia Barnstar of National Merit
		Been waiting for quite some time to give out this reward rather than receive. Mighty fine work! I award you this Mongolian Barnstar of National Merit. Wear it with pride!♦ Dr. Blofeld 18:07, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

• I will Ernst--thanks. Drmies (talk) 21:13, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

Alcatraz Gang

Thank you for creating this and asking me to help. It was very kind of you and I enjoyed it. I've added to it and listed it at DYK at Template:Did you know nominations/Alcatraz Gang. I never would have thought of creating this myself. And thanks also again for CCI help. PumpkinSky talk 21:53, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

• Haha, I knew you would take this up. You're a good pumpkin, Pumpkin. Drmies (talk) 23:06, 26 August 2012 (UTC)
• Indeed. History isn't over yet, and I can't begin to imagine how they survived. Thanks for taking up the challenge. Drmies (talk) 23:31, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

Template:Did_you_know_nominations#September_9_47th_Anniv_of_Stockdale_capture PumpkinSky talk 01:10, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

Mark Sanford Engagement

I noticed that you reverted User:76.85.180.165's recent edit to the Mark Sanford article regarding the former governor's reported engagement to Maria Belen Chapur, and I wanted to let you know that I have restored the information to the article with a source cited in which Sanford is quoted as confirming the accuracy of the report. --TommyBoy (talk) 23:27, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

• As long as there is a reliable reference it won't be reverted immediately. Next, is it written in an encyclopedic way? Thank you, Drmies (talk) 23:29, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

Here is what I wrote quoting directing from the article: "In August 2012, Sanford became engaged to his former mistress, Maria Belen Chapur." If you do not believe this language conforms to encyclopedic standards, please feel free to re-word it. --TommyBoy (talk) 23:43, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

No, that looks fine, thanks. You know, if I could go the rest of my life without ever having to think about hypocritical slimeballs like [redacted], I'd be a much happier homo sapiens. Drmies (talk) 00:02, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

Zodiac

Until a suitable replacement summary is there, I will not allow the present one to be removed. Fiction or not, I've discovered it to be accurate in real life, so kindly refrain from removing it until there is a "proven" summary to take its place. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.182.18.75 (talk) 04:12, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

• Don't do it. You'll be blocked: adding and re-adding unverified information of this kind is disruptive. Drmies (talk) 04:14, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

I did not see your reason for undoing it prior to stating that comment. So, would you mind explaining to me why an encyclopedia is meant to provide only limited knowledge on a given subject, particularly one as well-known and relied-upon as this one? 72.182.18.75 (talk) 04:16, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

• The editor who removed it called it "fiction". I agree with that, and so does modern science. Drmies (talk) 04:18, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

...Science...so useless in determination of such things. Well, I suppose there's nothing I can do about that...yet... Don't bother yourself with me; I won't undo it again. And if you don't mind, don't reply to me. 72.182.18.75 (talk) 04:20, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

• • Yes, science, so useless. Beyond My Ken (talk) 16:16, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

User:GoShow is restoring the information, minus what he or she feels is unreliable, and has opened a thread on WP:RSN here. Beyond My Ken (talk) 16:51, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

You need some article feedback to cheer you up. How about "titties"? Uncle G (talk) 21:02, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

• What does it mean to "feature" a post? Cause I just did. Drmies (talk) 22:30, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
  • Oh, man. I was going to unfeature it, because of the spelling. But, turns out that the unfeature button apparently does nothing. So, yeah. Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 22:41, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
    • Well, I did, and it did something, and then I just hid it. What a GREAT [redacted] feature. Drmies (talk) 00:39, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

MAJOR Problems with an Editor

Just noticed IAmCoolForever2023 edits and the moving of multiple pages. I can't even begin to describe how many things are wrong with what this user has done. Moving things without consensus, moving them to names which aren't correct (EWTN (TV channel) is not the correct legal name for "Eternal Word Television Network"), several cases of vandalism, I could go on. Can you take a look and handle it (blocks, please?), cause this is a mess I can't clean up. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 23:41, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

• I'm not ready to block yet, but I'm looking into it. Drmies (talk) 00:06, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
  • OK, I had Courcelles‎ run a CU and this isn't a sock of Rollosmokes or the DakTel vandal. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 00:08, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
    • I'm moving things back (HITN (TV channel), Daystar (TV channel), "PBJ (TV channel)). I left a note on their talk page, and then another (a final warning for those moves). If you could type up a summary (here or on their talk page) of things that were reverted or prodded or whatever, maybe that would be helpful. I've moved three things and will look for more. Again, I'm not blocking right now, not without fair warning and a chance at redemption. Drmies (talk) 00:22, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
      • No worries on the blocks. These are the moves made, not seeing any PRODs or any deletions. I will revert all of the other changes. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 00:25, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
        • All other changes (non-moves) have been reverted (since they connected to the moves). - Neutralhomer • Talk • 00:32, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
          • Alright. Well, if it happens again and I'm not around, ask any admin to have a look at this conversation, their edits, and their talk page. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 00:36, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
            • Okie Dokie, thank you for your help. :) - Neutralhomer • Talk • 00:37, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

Problems continue from IAmCoolForever2023. Namely with this edit and this edit. Also the removal of PROD tags to a show I don't think is notable. User hasn't responded to any of our posts and doesn't seem to be listening to them if he/she has. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 03:07, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

• Yeah, but you'll have to do more explaining to make a case for a block based on those edits--it is not immediately clear to me how those would be vandalism, if that's the case you're making (in your edit summaries too--hint). Those page moves, that's obvious, but they haven't made any since. You pointed to this edit, but there also a word of explanation would be helpful, not just for them, but also for any admin you want to ask for a future block. Drmies (talk) 03:15, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
  • Sorry, was watching TV, hence my slow response. The Daystar edit changes the name of the page (in the infobox) from "Daystar Television Network" to "Daystar (TV network)", which it isn't. The official legal name of the network is "Daystar Television Network". It seems like a continuation of the same "name changes" from before. On the TeenNick edit, it is (as Newyorkbrad said below) just "general screwing around" and removing good information. The user doesn't seem to be responding to posts or listening to them. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 07:02, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

It looks to me like IAmCoolForever has been doing an awful lot of removing good information, hoax creation, and general screwing around. I'm too tired to finish investigating and probably block (in fact, I am going to bed as soon as I finish this sentence), but it might make sense for an awake person to take this to ANI. Regards and good night, Newyorkbrad (talk) 03:21, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

• NYBrad, you and Homer are better than I am at fishing out hoaxes etc. I guess I don't watch enough TV. Again, I agree on the page moves, certainly. Natti natti, and consider flying with the Luna moth, as Bushranger suggested at ANI. Drmies (talk) 03:23, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

You've got mail!

Hello, Drmies. Please check your email; you've got mail! The subject is Nuke it from orbit.
Message added 03:32, 28 August 2012 (UTC). It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.

pretty important, actually. Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 03:32, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

• Beer or sex? Drmies (talk) 03:38, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
• Well, that was boring. Hey, I got a bottle of PBR 1844. That's pretty unique, though it's still PBR. Drmies (talk) 03:41, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
  • Well, having a mop can't always be happy fun times. Anyways, I sent you another email, but I guess I can say it here, too: check out your recent edit to User:WK-test/vector.js; I find it makes it a bit more interesting. ;) Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 03:43, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
    • Well, I'd like to say I didn't do that, but apparently I did. Hey, can you make me, like, finish my book manuscript while I'm feeding the cat? Drmies (talk) 03:45, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

NPOVN

Notice of Neutral point of view noticeboard discussion

Hello, Drmies. This message is being sent to inform you that there currently is a discussion at Wikipedia:Neutral point of view/Noticeboard regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bellae artes (talk • contribs) 08:56, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

Jimbo's talk page

Hey Drmies, I replied to you at Jimbo's talk page. Nutshell version: why should someone who disagrees with the very existence of the project be allowed to stay here? LadyofShalott 15:49, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

If I may be so bold, why should editors that violated the very spirit of wikipedia(by running or participating in a mailing list) be allowed to stay here? --Defensor Ursa 16:26, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

Where does that ridiculousness come from? The spirit of Wikipedia outlaws running or participating in a mailing list? Ryan Vesey 16:27, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

Where does the ridiculousness for removing an editor come from? --Defensor Ursa 16:59, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

Hey Lady, I can't crack that nut easily. I think that Meowy is a net positive. Further perusal of his edits may prove me wrong, but they may prove you wrong as well, haha. Maybe it's hope springing eternally. As for the comment on the project (which certainly in hindsight wasn't a smart comment to make), he has an explanation for tone and content which, obviously, I am more inclined to accept than others--YMMV (I think this is the first time I've used that). I don't know what the mailing list comment is about. My advocacy is not gaining much traction, it appears, and there's not much use pursuing it further. Without excusing all of the behavior that led to the block, I don't feel good about it. Different people have different motivations, that's for sure, but I think Meowy has done some good here. But think of all the others we keep around who have ruffled more than a few feathers and who have a block log longer than Meowy does... Thanks Lady, Drmies (talk) 17:58, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

I'm all ears, Drmies, and mainly because you are involved, but I haven't heard what I need to hear to get on board. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 18:02, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

Please don't beg the Prince Charles humor. :P — ChedZILLA 18:20, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

I could well be proved wrong, and I don't plan to participate in the ANI discussion at this point. LadyofShalott 22:41, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

Kiefer may have been right when he said something might be wrong with me after I gave ANI as a place I wanted to work at my RfA, but I feel quite comfortable and at home at ANI, and even call it my home away from home. With all the drama flying, I find it remarkably easy to stay focused and calm without getting caught up in it. I dunno why. As odd as it sounds, I would rather help solve problems at ANI than work any other venue here. Maybe I'm a fireman at heart. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 23:21, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

note #27 (ok - I don't know the "actual" number)

Hi Drmies, I just had a gander at some of your comments regarding the Meowy/ATG topic. As someone who has /been/ out in left-field and felt alone on "unblock" issues - I just wanted you to know that you'll have my support in any actions you may or may not decide to take. I was actually doing pretty well at "averting my eyes" WRT teh dramaz boards, but my attention was nudged on that topic. To be honest, I haven't researched the whole thing enough to draw a fully clued in view; but here's my "take away" from it on my brief look. I can't fault the original blocking admin from the surface read. But I also am always in favor of giving people a chance as well. Tarc and you both present very rational views. I /am/ glad to see that for the most part it seems that admins. in general are not pulling the knee-jerk reactions on "civility blocks" as often as they used to. I'll also admit that I would not want the pendulum to swing too far the other way either. I doubt many people would want to stick around in an atmosphere of who can sling around the nastiest insults. lan.thomson has already acknowledged that he could have toned it down. I think that Andy needs to realize that he was way OTT as well. I suspect that the "mentor" idea wouldn't fly well with Andy, but I doubt a new MickMacKnee (I know that's not the right spelling - but hopefully you know who I mean) would go over well either. To be blunt here - I think that Dennis continues to impress.

In the end though - I consider you one of our most valuable assets both as an editor, and as an admin. So I have complete faith in you - and will support any action you choose to take in this particular matter. Hey - anyone that can make human babies that cute can't be all bad. LOL. (Ahhhh .. the benefits of not dating one's self eh?). Cheers. — ChedZILLA 17:59, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

• Thanks Ched. I think I disagree with too many people here (or the other way around) to be able to make a convincing case. Dennis is, as usual, as good as they come. I may peruse Meowy's edits a bit more (I was involved with them in some Georgian church article, a long time ago) but I'm probably clutching at straws, and right now I have some other things to do. I do appreciate your note. I'll say one more thing: faulting the blocking admin--I think I can because it was an indefinite block, which I think was out of line. I don't agree that the behavior at that particular page, and that one diff, was enough for an indefinite block. If there was disruption in the article or the talk page, a temporary block would certainly have sufficed. An indefinite block must take into account the sum of a person's contributions, not just one discussion and one other (poorly worded, whatever) comment. I would never have made that block. But it's obvious that the community does not agree with me, and for now I have to leave it at that. Much will depend on what Meowy chooses to do on his talk page, and how he does it, no doubt. Drmies (talk) 18:11, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
  • I haven't been following this too closely, other than the name recognition from Meowy's spat with Wesley Mouse, but given that the block rationale cites a long history of disruptive editing, why do you say that the block was based solely on this incident? Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 18:21, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
    • That's what the blocking admin said, pretty much--"a long history of disruptive editing" is a rather easy comment (though I won't deny that Meowy's block log is pretty long). But I really don't want to talk more about this. Some unsavory things were said, and it was like the heavens opened up, raining down on one editor. I've been disappointed before in the WP community and this is another one of those occasions. Think about it: if the guy hadn't complained about that inexcusable name calling, thereby calling attention to himself, he might still be here. Drmies (talk) 02:32, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

Help With Revert on Ole Evinrude

Drmies, I've hit a wall trying to revert five IP vandal edits to the Ole Evinrude article. I can't for the life of me get a revert to stick, no matter which way I go. It's nothing like I've seen before. I tried taking this diff back to the last good edit, but for some reason, I can't save the revert. I'm able to edit other pages just now, so I'm really stumped. Can you help? Thanks, Geoff ^{Who, me?} 00:45, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

• I'm wondering if maybe you had an edit conflict. It's taken care of, though. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 02:43, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
• Long-term stable IP vandal. If you run into them again, ask AIV for a lengthy block. Drmies (talk) 02:44, 29 August 2012 (UTC)