User talk:Dovi/Archive 1

Hi

Hi Dovi, thanks for you Talk page message. I'm always creating redirects to Jewish articles because of the transliteration (see Yisrael Meir Kagan and the 5-7 redirects that point to that page).
The Rishonim, Geonim (seperate article!) and Acharonim pages are daunting subjects. I prefer straightforward things, like thrombotic thrombocytopenic purpura (TTP). JFW | T@lk 12:12, 23 May 2004 (UTC)

Shalom

Hi, I just came acroos some of your intelligent entries and just waanted to say hi...and don't be afraid of voicing your opinion, we need voices that are really knowledgeable in Torah. For example, take a look at the discussion about Category:Jewish mythology and the realted debate at Best wishes. IZAK 13:10, 11 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Saving pages

Thanks for your talk page message. I presume you'll still login to read this... I've had the same vexing problem, and discussed it on the #wikipedia IRC channel. At the moment there is no simple solution. The problem appeared in MediaWiki 1.3, the new software behind Wikipedia, and it's probably going to take a little while to sort out. Just open the page you've edited in a new window, and you'll see that your edits are still committed, even though you don't get to see the page after you've saved it.
In the meantime, you can manually track your edits, and ask for the edits to be attributed to your name later on Wikipedia:Changing attribution for an edit. JFW | T@lk 22:16, 26 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Re: Hebrew language vs. "Canaanite languages"

Hi, please see:

Request for assistance in a conflict between users regarding Canaanite and Hebrew linguistics articles

Your interest and input would be appreciated. Thank you. IZAK 10:31, 7 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Hi. I skimmed the debate a bit and quickly got lost. I tend not to like to get overly involved in these kinds of things. But I would appreciate it if you did the following: In the spirit of Beit Hillel, please summarize the point or attitude that you disagree with very concisely (perhaps in a couple of sentences) in the way that those who hold it would want it to be presented. Then present your opposing view concisely. Your doing so would help me decide whether I want to take a position within this debate. Thanks, Dovi 11:23, Jul 8, 2004 (UTC)

• Update: The above discussion was moved to : Talk:Hebrew languages and your input would still be appreciated. Hi, thank you. Like most debates, it is somewhat "free-wheeling" and has a life of its own as it unfolds. There are a number of both technical as well as scholarly and religious issues involved. The summaries will come when they put up the "epitaphs" I guess (whenever that may be...I am in no rush!). Best wishes. IZAK 06:42, 9 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Cannot work while logged in.

I have been plagued by a problem which I haven't seen mentioned by anyone else: Ever since the new software, when I log in I can't work. If I don't log in, I can read, edit, etc with no problems at all. But after I log in all pages refuse to load. This has been going on for quite a while already.

Does anyone have any idea why this might be so? Thanx in advance, Dovi.

I don't think this is the case for most people, so if you are not using an unusual browser, I can only imagine that it is a problem with cookies. If you can find your web browser's cookies, you might try deleting any that relate to Wikipedia -- Solipsist 19:45, 21 Jun 2004 (UTC)

This is happening to me as well. I was trying to edit the see also section on the Inca Empire page. I tried it from two computers using three browsers (safari, camino, and IE 6.0 Win XP). I'm new to wiki, so I don't really know the best way to escalate this. And I can't be logged in while I report it, for obvious reasons. -nep

'I'm new to wiki' - Ahh this might be the clue. I believe there have recently been some changes to limit or slow down editing by new users, as a defense against a vandalbot that has been causing trouble (see Wikipedia talk:Vandalbot log entries and look for Vandalbot above on this page). Your editing problems might be related, but of course I could be off base -- Solipsist 11:24, 22 Jun 2004 (UTC)

The problem is still there. I tried a different username and the same thing happens. What is the correct address for technical problems of this sort? -- Dovi

All bugs like this should be reported to sourceforge. Angela. 12:35, 8 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Hi Dovi. I moved this from the village pump in case you hadn't seen it. Angela. 20:08, 9 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I occasionally have problems like that... they usually turn out to be an edit conflict that just took a Real Long Time to resolve (or they never return). Usually loading the page in another browser window comes up right away and I instantly see my edit either there or not yet there. --ssd 05:06, 10 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Thanks to all who tried to help! The problem has gone away; for details see http://meta.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki_1.3_comments_and_bug_reports#Cannot_work_while_logged_in. Thanks again,Dovi 03:56, Jul 11, 2004 (UTC)

Hebrew transcription

Re your request on my talk page, unfortunately I'm not an expert in Latin letter Hebrew transcription systems, and have no special knowledge of their history and development, though I do have a certain interest in Latin letter transcription systems in general and some of that general interest and thinking in that area came out in my long discussion. For some of the context of that article see a dialogue between user Gilgamesh and myself at User talk:Gilgamesh.

As I mentioned there, one gets used to seeing different Latin-letter transcriptions of Hebrew to the point that one usually doesn't particularly notice which one is being used – all are usually understandable and readible, which makes it difficult to be sure whether what one thinks is standard is actually standard without checking.

As to the Encyclopedia Judaica its "scientific transliteration" method, as I remember it, is a reasonable system for modern Hebrew or Rabbinical Hebrew. But scholarly texts covering Classical Hebrew in a linguistic context in general don't indicate the softening of the "bgdkpt" letters in transliteration because that softening probably did not then exist (and can be understood from context in any case). Substituting different letters such as v for softened b and f for softened p obscures connections to other Semitic languages. The use of a dotted z. (ẓ) for Sade is also nonstandard in scholarly contexts for Classical Hebrew and somewhat unfortunate since a genuine voiced version of Sade normally transcribed by a dotted z. occurs in Ugaritic and Old South Arabic which also contain s. (ṣ). Gilgamesh's use of bars to indicate softening is the standard scholarly method when it is applied; but it is usually not applied. However, it makes sense to apply it in a header block where one might expect a fuller than normal technical translation.

I understand there are official recommendations published by the Hebrew Language Academy of Israel, but in my recent looking over what I have at hand and articles on the net I don't find any explicit indication of those recommendations. I do find sources that claim to be "generally based on" those recommendations or which claim to use those recommendations "with some variations". It seems most don't follow them exactly. *Sigh!*.

I believe the Encyclopedia Judaica transcriptions are based on Hebrew Language Academy of Israel transcription recommendations but whether they exactly followed them or whether the two are still synchronized I don't know. The best answer is probably to note in an article, on the first case of transliteration, which system is being used (in cases where that really matters). There are probably too many transliteration systems for Hebrew and too many minor variations in the actual use to successfully force any one or two or three or four precise Hebrew transliterations systems onto Wikipedia as preferred without a great deal of discussion. That articles won't always use the same transliteration system simply reflects real life and I don't see this as a problem myself. Where there are great differences, on the first mention of a term, simply indicate alternative transliterations and then continue with the one you prefer. Since different standards exist, it is more informative to a reader to present multiple spellings that the reader is likely to come across.

As to Unicode values, the dotted characters mostly appear in the "Latin Extended Addition" section which can be seen at Unicode: Latin Extended Additional. For Unicode answers the Unicode.org website is the best place to look. For generating decimal character entities I generally use BabelMap, available free from BabelMap.

Jallan 15:55, 21 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Hi Dovi, I've responded to your question at the village pump. m:How to start a new Wikipedia is probably the best place to start. If there's any more advice you need, please let me know. Angela. 18:40, Jul 22, 2004 (UTC)

RTL WIkiSource

"I've come to the conclusion that RTL languages (e.g. Hebrew and Arabic) only work correctly in domains specifically set up for them, such as the Hebrew and Arabic Wikipedias. But they won't format correctly on a WikiSource without such language-specific domains. Is that correct?"

Hi. Tim would be able to help you out with specifics way more than I could, but Ill take a shot. Basically - the defaults have to be setup for that whole wiki. And even a wiki is set up as UTF-8, it still requires a choice of the older encoding schemes for the wiki software itself (namespaces, etc). This is because PHP hadnt supported UTF8 until more recently, etc. DNS is another encoding-related issue ;notice how Arabic and Hebrew urls look. So RTL is a problem within that context; RTLs problems are mostly due to being on non-RTL sites, and these problems are usually with the browsers handling; rather a browser cant deal with both on the same line. Someone had come up with an all UTF-8 upgrade, which Im pretty sure they use on source, only that RTL could still pose a problem for text editors themselves to produce the proper UTF 8. That's my (limited) understanding of it. I think theres supposed to a workaround (in upcoming 1.4) that you set up in preferences. Since all those languages have language.php files already translated, the selection among which language file to use is somehow going to be called up from your personal prefs, (and this theoretically could redefine how we think of language-separated wikis.) Before you log in though, it will still be in English, but thats just a splash page. Hope that helps.-SV 06:14, 25 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I asked Brion about this, who's our local expert on internationalisation. He said that you can put the text inside <div dir="rtl"></div>, e.g.

אני כרגע מוסיף כמות רצינית של טקסט

. That seems to work, however you'd have to do that for every Hebrew page on the wiki. In theory we could automatically detect the language and set the text direction accordingly, but that hasn't been done yet. On dedicated RTL wikis like he.wikipedia.org, all text is effectively enclosed in such a div. -- Tim Starling 06:58, Jul 25, 2004 (UTC)

Thanks very much to the two of you! That is very helpful information. (What Tim did to the He WS page seems to work as temporary stopgap. And it could be useful in other WP contexts as well.)Dovi 08:52, Jul 25, 2004 (UTC)

OK, I've set it up. The arrangment is a bit experimental, this is the first of a kind. Please tell me if you have any problems. The interwiki prefix to access it is HeWikisource:. I've aimed for minimum disruption of the existing Wikisource. -- Tim Starling

Fundamentalism article

Hi Dovi. Now that you've cleaned up the Jewish Fundamentalism article, do you think you could take a look at the Jewish stuff in the Fundamentalism article? I tried to clean it up myself, but I think it could benefit from your re-work. Jayjg 15:42, 26 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Thanks, I'll try to take a look at it sometime after Tisha be-Av. (Is Wikipedia permitted labor for the afternoon of Tisha be-Av?  :-) We'll have to start getting local psak...)Dovi 14:57, Jul 27, 2004 (UTC)

That's going to be hard, few poskim are willing to provide a psak on 9 Av. At any rate, as long as we're not learning Torah, Wikipedia is still no way as geshmak as a nice blatt. JFW | T@lk 15:54, 27 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Unfortunately for us, when the psak finally arrives, it will deal much less with geshmak Torah study on 9 Av than with massive bittul Torah the whole year round!Dovi 04:07, Jul 28, 2004 (UTC)

Re: Wikipedia:WikiProject Hebrew languages

Wikipedia:WikiProject Hebrew languages Please join Wikipedia:WikiProject Hebrew languages Your input will be crucial. IZAK 08:24, 10 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject Hebrew languages participants list

Since you've been so active in the talk page, how about you add your name to the participants list on the main project page? :) - Gilgamesh 21:48, 11 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Wikisource

Hi,

Well, I think it would be best to improve the software, rather that to set up a separate Wikisource for each language. But that is technically much more difficult. I think that the aim of actual Wikisource should be broadened to images and sounds, beside texts, like the project m:Wikimedia_Commons. Yann 11:34, 31 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Well there were talks about the multilingual interface being coded now on the wikitech mailing list. It seems that it was nearly ready. I didn't check in details, so I can't say more. Yann 16:27, 30 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Permission letters

I have come across articles that use privately owned material (especially images) after the contributor wrote to the owner via e-mail and received permission.

On the one hand, I think it is great that contributors are taking the copyright issues seriously and getting permission. On the other hand, I have a question: Is there (or should there be) any place on wikipedia for recording/storing such permission letters so that there will be a public record of them?Dovi 08:23, Aug 25, 2004 (UTC)

I don't know of a public place for storing permission letters. (Would copying someone else's e-mail without express permission constitute a copyright violation?) Personally, I keep a record at User:Diberri/Work in progress of all the copyright-related issues I've handled, and keep a backup of correspondence on my PC. --Diberri | Talk 09:20, Aug 25, 2004 (UTC)

I think copies of both (request and permission) the emails should go on the image description page, so that it is clear exactly what was asked and what was agreed to. I don't think this would violate copyright, If this wasn't "fair use" i don't know what would be. Theresa Knott 10:50, 25 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Hi Dovi. I've moved the above discussion here as it was time to clean the Village pump. Angela. 14:12, Sep 1, 2004 (UTC)

Wikisource

It's a very well written proposal and I wish you the best of luck with it, but you may have some problems convincing certain people, so be prepared for a lengthy debate if this is what you want. I quit that project a long time ago for reasons I probably shouldn't go into here, so I hope you will understand that I would rather not be involved. Don't take the comments of two opposers as reflecting the community consensus. It's likely you'll find it's far less controversial that a couple of people make out. Don't let it stress you too much either. :) Angela, ex-Wikisourcian, 22:28, Sep 2, 2004 (UTC)

A ?Hebrew? newsletter

Hello Dovi,

If you have time, please give oferw a hand translating the foundation newsletter into Hebrew. Thanks! +sj+ 18:36, 19 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Conversion link

Hi Dovi, I removed the link - not because it was not working but because it was so complicated. Generally, external links should carry the reader to the right location, not after following a set of instructions. When I tried deeplinking to the relevant section of the Itim site, the link stopped working. Perhaps there are other resources that are easier to link to... JFW | T@lk 20:53, 19 Sep 2004 (UTC)

There is much confusion on the whole Wikipedia on the necessity and requirements of external links. On the whole, they are unnecessary: anyone who uses Wikipedia can use Google. Some articles have long lists of gradually accumulated external links, where nobody has bothered to verify if these links are relevant to the article, or that they are simply advertisements, oblique supports for fringe views and other rubbish.

I don't complain about the quality of the Itim site article (it is very good), but an external link that comes with a manual is against the spirit of Wikipedia policy in Wikipedia:External links, Wikipedia:Describe external links and m:When should I link externally. JFW | T@lk 08:57, 20 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I've deeplinked the URL correctly. The Wiki stops parsing the URL at the caret (^) sign, so I have replaced this with the correct hex code (%5E, see this site for some details). The link works now. JFW | T@lk 09:12, 20 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Vote

See Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Occupation of Palestine

Vote: Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Violence against Israelis

See Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Violence against Israelis. Thank you. IZAK 09:21, 3 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Need for support

See Wikipedia:Requests for comment/IZAK. Thank you. IZAK 02:51, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Sam Spade

Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Sam Spade

Vote "NO". Opposed to SamSpade's unfriendly views in the Jew article. IZAK 08:40, 10 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Language domains on WikISource

Thanks Dovi, please keep me informed. I do not watch WikiSource per se although I use it heavily. I think my watchlist there has... 0 articles! I don't check the Scriptorium neither, but I keep an eye on the EN and ES front page and submit texts regularly. —Joseph | Talk 05:28, Oct 15, 2004 (UTC)

Language domains on WikiSource

Dovi, I've replied to your suggestion about moving Akkadian texts onto modern-language domains. I'm abstaining from the vote, as I've been convinced that it would be possible to split wikisource into language-specific domains while still providing a multi-language forum for obscure projects like mine. Ben 22:19, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)

See these six categories up for "votes of deletion":

See these six categories up for "votes of deletion":

Wikipedia:Categories_for_deletion#Category:Palestinian_terrorists and Wikipedia:Categories_for_deletion#Category:Palestinian_terrorist_organizations and Wikipedia:Categories_for_deletion#Category:Middle_East_terrorists and Wikipedia:Categories_for_deletion#Category:Terrorist_organizations and Wikipedia:Categories_for_deletion#Category:Islamic_terrorist_organizations and this one too: Wikipedia:Categories_for_deletion#Category:Jewish_terrorist_organizations

IZAK 10:10, 5 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Opinion for IZAK

Please see Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/IZAK/Evidence. Thank you. IZAK 07:11, 7 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Wikisource

I replied on my talk page. Angela. 21:25, Nov 30, 2004 (UTC)

I want to help

I want to help you with the mishnah project, but I'm not sure about how exactly you lay out the pages. Could you tell me how. Maybe we could make some Gemara pages!!! Zavuza 17:37, 2 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Thanks, fantastic! I'll leave a more detailed reply at your user talk page (in order to encourage you to create a new user page so you can tell everyone about yourself:-). Dovi 09:49, Dec 3, 2004 (UTC)

Type Hebrew

How do you type the Hebrew text of the Mishnah? I tried tried DavkaWriter and copied and pasted into Wikipedia, but it comes out in English. For example, "Mayim" would come out nho.

DavkaWriter is a bit weird for cutting and pasting between languages. Hebrew Word for Windows has no problems. You probably need to find the function within DW to cut and paste to Word, or to save a file as a Word file. I'm sure it's there somewhere fairly obvious. Dovi 23:05, Dec 14, 2004 (UTC)

Diacritics

How do you type diacritics in Word?

Thanks, Jacob

Hi, if you read Hebrew, all the basic information is at the Hebrew Wikipedia here.

Even if you don't read Hebrew, the basic idea is to press "caps lock" and then "shift" with the proper key from the chart, when the cursor is placed after the letter to which you are giving a vowel.

By the way, I don't know if you have a Hebrew work processor. The way it works in wikimedia (link above) is the same as in Hebrew Word for Windows. (There are other programs that differ.) If you download the Hebrew version of Open Office (openoffice.org) you will get a fine free word processor using the same system.

Hope this helps; if you have any more questions please ask. Dovi 16:39, Dec 23, 2004 (UTC)

my proposal

Hi,

I just announced I am stepping away from the proposal discussion for several days. I know I have polarized the discussion, which I didn't want to do. If you are willing, I hope you will visit the page periodically and do whatever you can or think is appropriate to facilitate discussion between both sides.

Thanks

Steve

Category:Hebrew Bible verses

Hello Dovi: See the verses in Category:Hebrew Bible verses with the two samples so far: Genesis 1:1, and Genesis 1:2. Is this the way the Torah verses should be "presented"? (Compare with the verses in Category:New Testament verses.) At what point should the classical teachings of famous meforshim be inserted, and in what way and how much? The time to decide on this is now, because at this stage the "project" is still being "formed" by User:Neutrality alone. Thank you. IZAK 03:10, 26 May 2005 (UTC)

Mishna in French

Hi, I'd be interested to start a translation of your (fabulous) work on the Mishna in French. Unafortunately, I don't know how to do that. Could you give me a hint?

Hi, that is wonderful! OK, I made a link to a French Mishnah page for you. So go to the English Wikibooks Mishnah, look for the new link to "Francais" in the left sidebar, and click it!

This will take you to the new French "Mischna" page]! Now just click "modifier" and start typing!!

You may want to translate the Mishnah chart that appears on Mishnah into French. This chart is a template, and it can be found here: template:Mishnah. Simply copy it to a similar French location and translate the words into French spelling!

Good luck, and if you need any more help let me know! Dovi 03:25, Jun 9, 2005 (UTC)

Nosson Slifkin

Nosson Slifkin deserves and article, and already has one. I've restored the links; given that his notability and body of published works is considerably greater than that of Student's, I strongly doubt any attempted VfDs would succeed. You might want to cleanup the Nosson Slifkin article. Jayjg ^(talk) 17:07, 10 July 2005 (UTC)

Gil Student

You should take this to WP:VFU. Dunc|☺ 18:13, 10 July 2005 (UTC)

Consensus on Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Gil Student after the standard five day discussion period was over was to delete. You need to take it to WP:VFU. Dunc|☺ 18:17, 10 July 2005 (UTC)

Don't worry, it's still in the database, just not publicly visible. If you think you have a case case take it to WP:VFU where it will be reviewed by admins who'll then decide its fate. Dunc|☺ 18:23, 10 July 2005 (UTC)

I've taken to VFU - [1]--Josiah 03:16, July 11, 2005 (UTC)

Rabbi Yochanan

Hello: Could you please comment about which category best fits at Talk:Rabbi Yochanan. Thanks so much! IZAK 08:14, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

Please confirm project namespace with Brion

I just did this. I wasn't sure where the need to ask for board approval of namespaces had suddenly come from, so I emailed the rest of the board yesterday to see if they had raised any objections about it. They didn't respond, so I've requested that Brion to go ahead and make them in the normal way. Angela. 18:40, August 26, 2005 (UTC)

Wikisource

Thanks so much for fixing the Wikisource link and slogan that appears on the Main Page!

There was one slight error however. The link should be to s:Main Page or even to simply just s:. But not to s:Main Page:English. If you could switch that one small thing too it would be great. Thanks!Dovi 15:21, 15 September 2005 (UTC)

Okay, now fixed. I don't quite remember why I put in s:Main Page:English; sorry about that. -- Jitse Niesen (talk) 17:01, 15 September 2005 (UTC)

Gamliel

Hi Dovi: Would you like to add to the article Gamliel please? Thank you. IZAK 09:29, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

Thanks

Hi Dovi, thanks for fixing the new id.wikisource link in id.wikipedia, and thanks for helping us in making this happen. Borgx^(talk) 08:35, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

List of High Priests of Israel

Hello Dovi: What do you make of the characters on List of High Priests of Israel, especially the latter-names, they don't sound Jewish to me at all. IZAK 09:00, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

Yetzia bish'eila

Take a look at Yetzia bish'eila, maybe you could add a word or two. Thanks. IZAK 11:57, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for your support on my RfA

Hey Dovi! Thanks for your support on my RfA. The final outcome was (57/4/3), so I am now an administrator. If you need help, have a question, or just want to chat (or if I get out of line!), please don't hesitate to let me know! Again, thanks! :D

Tomer^talk

Hebrew Alphabet

Saw this message, what do you think of it? IZAK 06:45, 25 December 2005 (UTC):

"I have rewritten the articles on all the Hebrew letters here and before I replace the pages, your input would be appreciated. Thanks! Sputnikcccp 16:26, 23 December 2005 (UTC)"

Land of Israel

If you have time, could you comment on my suggestion here ?--Sjsilverman 17:19, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

Vote for deletion

You may be interested in this vote http://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/A_wife_confused_for_a_sister --PinchasC | £€åV€ m€ å m€§§åg€ 18:34, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

Why? So you can round up Meatpuppets? --User talk:FDuffy 02:16, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Huh?Dovi 09:03, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Bible verses and chapters on Wikipedia

Hi Dovi: Shavua Tov ! It is important that you see the following proposed Wikipedia policy pages and their discussion pages at Wikipedia:Centralized discussion/Verses of 1 Kings 4 and 5 AND Wikipedia:Centralized discussion/Whole bible chapter text. Thanks for giving this matter your serious attention before discussion is closed and the "policy" is set. IZAK 09:40, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

Re:Wikisource Annotations

Thanks for calling me up for Wikisource. I'll be more than glad to continue contributing to the conversation as time permits. (but first, I must register an account on en.wikisource) — Ambush Commander^(Talk) 01:12, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Sister projects on new Main Page

Hi! Congatulations on the new Main Page. It's really nice.

Please, however, fix the sister project links at the bottom of the page as per the discussion here. The new Main Page is fantastic, but on this particular detail the proper way to have done things should have been to have the template transcluded into the proposed Main Page, all to provide an alternative template that people could keep updated.

In any case, since you an admin, it would be great if you could transclude the template in, and make whatever modifications to it people think are necessary. Dovi 08:38, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Hello! The template has been updated and transcluded. I corrected the Wikisource link, but I disagree with the idea of including the slogan (instead of the description "Free-content source texts," which is based upon wording from the Wikisource main page). We don't list slogans for any of the other sister projects, and descriptions are more useful in this context. ("The free library" could just as easily be applied to Wikibooks.) FYI, the text that appeared in the draft was not outdated; "The free library" was deliberately changed to "Free-content source texts" as part of the proposed redesign.

We certainly should include whichever text is backed by consensus, so please feel free to raise this issue at Talk:Main Page.

Incidentally, I apologize for not replying to the aforementioned discussion. The redesign project was consuming literately all of my free time (and then some), so I forced myself to stay away from that page until the election concluded. —David Levy 09:00, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Please see my comments on Main page talk and on the template talk.

"The free library" is a Wikisource decision (in all languages, by the way), not a Wikipedia decision.

Yes, they get to select their slogan, but we don't have to feature it on our main page.

"The free encyclopedia" is how Wikipedia itself appears on Sister links from other projects.

That's our slogan, but it also is a good description of the site.

"The free library" was already discussed and changed on the Sister projects template months ago. It needs no further discussion.

The discussion in question was very brief, and I see that Minh Nguyễn expressed exactly the same concerns that I cited (which were never addressed).

As for the code itself, the new code appears sloppy in Firefox. I don't think that most people who voted on the Main Page even realized the template was even being changed (would have been better to transclude the template into the proposed main page and then make changes locally, instead of ending up with a degraded template). I suggest restoring the old code, and then making whatever small but correct changes in wording appeared in the proposed Main page. Dovi 09:18, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

I'm using Firefox, and it looks the same to me. (Someone else changed it because the old code caused some sort of display problem for him.) Can you please upload a screen capture? —David Levy 09:29, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

The free library" is a Wikisource decision (in all languages, by the way), not a Wikipedia decision.

Yes, they get to select their slogan, but we don't have to feature it on our main page.

I find that quite rude.

That wasn't intended as rudeness. I simply mean that we have no control over the Wikisource slogan, but Wikisource has no control over whether we place it (as opposed to a description) on our main page.

In other words, we aren't declaring that "Free-content source texts" is the slogan; we're omitting the slogan in favor of a description.

Perhaps you will change the other project's logo's, too? (Right now we are having ongoing logo discussions at Wikisource.)

I don't see the connection. Again, we aren't presenting a false slogan of our invention. We're presenting a description (which happens to be based upon text from the Wikisource main page).

"The free library" has achieved unusually strong across-the-board consensus at all language version of Wikisource.

I'll take your word for it, but that has no bearing on whether we include it (or any project's slogan) on the Wikipedia main page.

The reason there was very little discussion for changing it on the template is precisely becuase it is a Wikisource decision.

Again, the slogan itself certainly is, but its inclusion on our main page is not.

Isn't it likely that there was very little discussion because few people noticed the change and knew where to discuss it (and the person who complained was ignored)? You led me to believe that this issue had been extensively discussed on the template's talk page (and therefore "needs no further discussion"). In actuality, the "discussion" consisted of you requesting the change, someone else complying, and a third person protesting the change. That was it (until you finally added a reply today).

As for Wikibooks, it is not in any way meant to be an open library.

Please explain how "a collection of free, open-content textbooks" could not reasonably be deemed "an open library" or "free library."

I've posted a protest notice at your decision at the English Wikisource Scriptorium.

I was unable to find such a message. Can you please provide a link? Never mind. I found it. —David Levy 15:56, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Maybe we'll change our Wikipedia link to something descriptive and attractive like "Free-content articles". Dovi 09:38, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

If that's backed by consensus, it would be perfectly acceptable. —David Levy 14:25, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

David, you did an absolutely outstanding job on the new Main Page (which I voted for along with 600 others). On this one detail we disagree, and you asked for discussion to be moved to Main Page talk. I did that, even though I strongly disagree with you that discussion should even be needed for a slogan that Wikisource itself has adopted, no different that "The free encyclopedia" for Wikipedia as used in all "sister project" templates. The consensus at Main Page talk is that the slogan is descriptive, accurate, and creates no confusion with Wikibooks (actually, it helps). It is possible to nit-pick any slogan or description, including "The free encyclopedia," and I understand that you yourself disagree and don't like "The free library". But I entirely fail to see why it should be your decision to make! Now that there has been plenty of discussion, please do us at Wikisource the courtesy of changing it back. And enjoy the rest of your truly outstanding Main page! Dovi 22:28, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

It isn't my decision to make. When I suggested that you initiate a discussion, I meant that you should attempt to forge consensus among the members of this community. I didn't mean that you should rally support from the members of a different community.

And again, you're yet to explain why we should display your exact slogan (despite the fact that we include none of the other sister projects' slogans), and you haven't specifically addressed the new compromise wording (which actually contains the phrase "free library"). —David Levy 22:44, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

SisterProjects template

Hi! I'm preparing to bring the disagreement over project slogans to the Communications Committee weekly meeting, and I've asked for input on the talk page where the discussion had been occurring, but perhaps it might be better if you could respond either by e-mail or on my wp talk page to these three questions:

• On what basis does en.Wikipedia ignore another WMF project's slogan?
• On what basis does en.Wikipedia ignore another WMF project's description?
• Is the SisterProject template on Wikipedia using slogans or descriptions for all projects?

- Amgine 21:18, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your note! I've brought it up to the communications committee, and we'll be discussing it again at the next meeting, on Saturday. - Amgine 19:35, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

The committee did not reach any decision regarding localised logos, descriptive texts, or self-identifying slogans. Some members of the committee would like to draw up a style guide, which would cover this issue. Because no decision was reached the discussion is ongoing. - Amgine 22:13, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Judaism

Dear Dovi! I have created Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Judaism. Please put it on your watchlist, and please add relevant AfD's as you find them. Cheers. - CrazyRussian talk/email 19:49, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Niqqud

Looks like that problem was solved, it's up to you to do with the page. Notice at the bottom of Niqqud also needs to be removed, I suppose. --Daniel575 23:36, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Still a problem for some browsers... Dovi 14:51, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject Orthodox Judaism

Hi Dovi: Thought you would be interested in the latest adventure that has started at Wikipedia:WikiProject Orthodox Judaism (perhaps you may want to join) and the discussions at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Orthodox Judaism. Shabbat Shalom. IZAK 13:08, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Sounds interesting, but I've very sporadic web access while the war is on... Dovi 14:52, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

The Bible

Hi, sorry for getting to hyper on the discussion over there. :) Please take a look at the arrangement. I think people were getting the wrong idea about what I was saying needss to be done. I moved a few sections and I'd like your opinion on it. I hope you think it looks nice like this. Peace. --Home Computer 17:50, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Response to NOTICE and OBJECTIONS to WikiProject Religion vs. Judaism

Hi Dovi: It is very important that you see the points and the response from User:Badbilltucker about his aims at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Judaism#NOTICE and OBJECTIONS to WikiProject Religion vs. Judaism ASAP. Have a Happy Chanukah! IZAK 15:55, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Re: Complete list

I've replied to your message at Talk:Main Page. If you have any further questions, don't hesitate to contact me. --Slowking Man 16:26, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Your Removal of the CJB from article: Jewish English Bible translations

I believe that you have went considerably beyond your legitimate limits in removing Rav. Dr. Stern's CJB translation from Jewish English Bible translations article. Please see the talk pages as to why your dual accusation of "1st minor vandalism. 2nd Christian translation" is factually errant and ethically untenable. Respond in the talk page in that article and in my own talk page. My regards. Noogster 20:53, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

lead section and Chronicles

Thanks for at least explaining why you reverted me. The lead section of Chronicles was a lot like the lead sections of lots of pages: a simple definition and nothing more. Lots and lots of lead sections on WP are too weak to meet WP standards, and Chronicles was an example. A lead section should summarize and give the reader enough information that they know why they should care. Please read WP:LEAD. Also, to my surprise, I recently found out that it is WP policy not to revert good faith edits but to improve and worth with them. Please see WP:Revert. Jonathan Tweet 15:48, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

threading

Hi, Dovi. Please do try to use indentation correctly on talk pages to make threads of discussion easier to read. Thanks. ⇔ ChristTrekker 16:13, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Sorry for the mistake. Will try to improve. Dovi 03:13, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Codex Cairensis

Hi - I noticed you'd deleted the bit about doubt being cast on the genuineness of the codex. I've restored it and sourced it to a book already mentioned in the article, namely the Hebrew University Bible Project volume on Ezekiel. It's difficult to think of a more reliable source than the Hebrew University.--Newport 23:46, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Editions of the Masoretic Bible

Hi Dovi,

I'm glad that you like what I've been able to add to the Bible translations article. It's been a great learning experience researching some of the translations, and it's also been a lot of fun.

With respect to different printed editions of the masoretic text, I'm afraid I'm out of my league, but I'd be willing to try to help. It looks like there's a bare-bones skeleton at Masoretic Text#Some important editions that might be a helpful starting point.

I don't know enough about the subject to advise you whether to include manuscripts as well as printed editions. I'll also have to think about the title, but maybe that will become clearer as the scope of the article becomes clearer.

PS - I'm sorry for all the grief I gave you about the definition of a Jewish Bible, but without a good definition I think it's hard to argue that Bibles used by Messianic Jews aren't Jewish Bibles. — Malik Shabazz | Talk 08:42, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Natan Slifkin

I see you are also interested in Natan Slifkin. Please review these articles, because I have run up against an intransigent editor:

• Jewish reactions to intelligent design
• Jewish opposition to evolution

Perhaps you could also review the changes the same editor has made to Natan Slifkin. He does not come from the Jewish perspective, and he seems to be following me around and looking for ways to harass me. --Metzenberg 04:59, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Removal of AFD Notice

Please do not remove Articles for deletion notices from articles or remove other people's comments in Articles for deletion pages. Doing so won't stop the discussion from taking place. You are however welcome to comment about the proposed deletion on the appropriate page. Thank you. DXRAW 21:20, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

The appropriate reaction to your frivolous WP:POINT nomination was WP:SNOW, as the discussion of your ill-considered nomination made absolutely clear. Dovi 06:43, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Tanakh templates

From my talk page:

Shavua Tov. Why did you "black out" the links? Now there is no link when the template is transcluded, and it looked just fine before. Please revert? Dovi 18:30, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

I felt it might look better when used on pages such as Book of Job, so as to immediately make it clear that the article is within the Tanakh, and also within that subset of the Tanakh known as Ketuvim (there is still a link to Ketuvim in the template's header). If you think this was a bad idea, please feel free to revert it. --Eliyak T·C

I don't seem to see the remaining link...? Dovi 06:44, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Wait, now I see. hmmmm... Are we weighing redundancy versus intuition? Dovi 06:46, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Your note

Thanks!! --Shirahadasha 05:14, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Idea for Talmud articles

Hi Dovi: I am reposting the following request from User Sh76us (talk · contribs) on my user talk page for wider notification:

I was thinking of trying to stimulate development of a series of articles on Gemara concepts and doctrines, maybe to help children or newcomers to Gemara with explanations of some fundamental concepts that recur throughout the Gemara. Some examples might be articles on Yiush, Chazakah, Ta'aninun (as in "Ta'aninun L'Yoresh"), Eidim Zomemin (forgive my awful transliterations), Migu, etc., etc. Maybe we could even create a category or subcategory for it. I created Breira in this vein. As I don't have the experience or expertise in Wikipedia to know what to do to best develop this idea, I figured I'd come to you for your opinions on: (1) whether it's a good idea; and (2) How to best go about implementing it. Thanks Sh76us (talk) 15:56, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Centralized discussion at: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Judaism#Idea for Talmud articles. Thank you. IZAK (talk) 03:30, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Speedy deletion of Template:User Signpost single-page

A tag has been placed on Template:User Signpost single-page requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section T3 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a deprecated or orphaned template. After seven days, if it is still unused and the speedy deletion tag has not been removed, the template will be deleted.

If the template is intended to be substituted, please feel free to remove the speedy deletion tag and please consider putting a note on the template's page indicating that it is substituted so as to avoid any future mistakes (<noinclude>{{transclusionless}}</noinclude>).

Thanks. --MZMcBride (talk) 19:26, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Please see talk page discussion

I see from this edit summary that you added some questionable material to the Aleppo Codex article some time ago and it has never been questioned. Please see the discussion I have started on that article's talk page called "Jerusalem - Cairo." --Ghostexorcist (talk) 03:47, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

I have found a section on the aleppocodex.org page that supports my own statements about the ransom of Jews and holy relics during the First Crusade (please see my comments on the talk page). I will be adding that and my own sources to the page to fill out that bit of the history section. I am not Jewish, but I am extremely interested in Jewish life during the Crusades. I was quite happy when I read there was indeed a plausible connection between this codex and those ransomed by the Crusaders. History is just a glorious jigsaw puzzle. --Ghostexorcist (talk) 18:21, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

I have made the specified changes to the article, but it still needs further citation. I am too busy with other projects to do it myself.

Thanks for taking interest in my novel. It centers around a Jew that survives the Crusaders' 1099 siege of Jerusalem as a child and grows to manhood in Song China's Kaifeng Jewish community. I've based him on an 8 year old boy that is mentioned in the Letter of the Karaite elders of Ascalon. This child, along with an unrelated kohen were never allowed to be ransomed and were taken to Antioch. Anyway, He makes his way to China via a merchant ship hailing from Baghdad and later serves under General Yue Fei after the Jingkang Incident. Depending on the source, Jews have lived in China since the Han Dynasty (before the birth of Christ) and almost became extinct (for lack of a better term) during the late Qing Dynasty. --Ghostexorcist (talk) 22:23, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Thank you!

Safire article from NYT is great stuff, written in a great blend of respect, good humour and open-mindedness. Great find Dovi. Thank you. Alastair Haines (talk) 16:53, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Parashah

Hi, responding to your note @ wikiproject Judaism and doing some work on Parashah. It strikes me that there is no mention in the introduction regarding the point of dividing the text into Parashot - is it strictly for the reasons listed in the following section (new thought or idea in the text) or did it have something to do with the Torah reading cycle? Did the Torah reading cycle just use the Parashot as a convenient way to divide the readings, or were they divided in conjunction with the reading cycle? Kaisershatner (talk) 16:23, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Further reading suggests maybe I am confusing "parashah" and "parashat ha-shavua", but perhaps you could educate me on this point. Best, Kaisershatner (talk) 16:27, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Classical languages

I noticed your name supporting classical languages. :)

What do you think are the best arguments from the other side?

Are we hearing what they are saying?

I almost mentioned how Hebrew left the synagogues and returned to the people in the 20th century. One Israeli biblical scholar told me he thinks the Tanakh should be translated into Israeli!!! I think that day is a long way off (so did he). I only mention it because I'm sure you'll appreciate the issues of such a "translation" better than I.

Good to hear from you. kol tuv my friend. Alastair Haines (talk) 20:24, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

PS This discussion just made me think of a better name for Old Testament, in Reformation understanding at least, which would be Classical or Foundational Testament. Can't see it catching on though. ;) Alastair Haines (talk) 05:42, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Old proposal

Hi I reposted your message to Fritz as nobody is likely to read it on an archived page. I think the original proposal had massive support but remember it also had 45 opposes and at least 15 people on the fence. The views of 60 people couldn't be discredited however incorrect many of the concerns may have been. The new proposal is likely to gain the support of some people who opposed before. We got the distinct impression that many thought the idea of expanding wikipedia by two miillion stubs would have been a disgrace to the site. ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ ^$1,000,000? 13:58, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Judaism Newsletter

This newsletter was automatically delivered by ShepBot because you are a member of the WikiProject. If you would like to opt out of future mailings, please remove your name from this list. Delivered by §hepBot (Disable) on 04:25, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Judaism Newsletter

This newsletter was automatically delivered because you are a member of one or more Judaism related WikiProjects. If you would like to opt out of future mailings, please remove your name from this list.

• Newsletter delivery by xenobot 02:31, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

The Judaism Newsletter

This newsletter was automatically delivered because you are a member of one or more Judaism related WikiProjects. If you would like to opt out of future mailings, please remove your name from this list. As always, please direct all questions, comments, requests, barnstars, offers of help, and angry all-caps anti-semitic rants to my talk page. Thanks, and have a great month. L'Aquatique[approves|this|message] 20:31, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

• Newsletter delivery by xenobot 21:09, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Frisian

I see you had a user page made on fy:. Are you able to understand Frisian? If not, do you mind if I add a Babel box to your page saying so?
(Would you be so kind to answer at fy:User talk:Aliter? It might be a while before I visit this W again.) Aliter (talk) 05:14, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

since April 20078

"Current Wikipedia Activities Parashah – Slowly but surely, since April 20078 I have been working to expand this article into the most comprehensive and definitive source of information on the topic available anywhere. Though currently incomplete it already has lots of great information, and I was gratified to find and read the outstanding French translation of my work."

You might want to change that. Not sure if it was 2007 or 2008, and I'm not even sure if you want me changing your page. 68.197.235.178 (talk) 20:34, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, Dovi (talk) 21:21, 9 November 2008 (UTC)