This is an archive of past discussions with User:Desertarun. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Welcome!

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Happy editing! I dream of horses (Contribs) Please notify me after replying off my talk page. Thank you. 17:52, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

A lengthy welcome

Hi Desertarun. Welcome to Wikipedia. I hope you don't mind if I share some of my thoughts on starting out as a new editor on Wikipedia: If I could get editors in your situation to follow just one piece of advice, it would be this: Learn Wikipedia by working only on non-contentious topics until you have a feel for the normal editing process and the policies that usually come up when editing casually. You'll find editing to be fun, easy, and rewarding. The rare disputes are resolved quickly and easily.

Working on biographical information about living persons is far more difficult. Wikipedia's Biographies of living persons policy requires strict adherence to multiple content policies, and applies to all information about living persons including talk pages.

If you have a relationship with the topics you want to edit, then you will need to review Wikipedia's Conflict of interest policy, which may require you to disclose your relationship and restrict your editing depending upon how you are affiliated with the subject matter. Regardless, editing in a manner that promotes an entity or viewpoint over others can appear to be detrimental to the purpose of Wikipedia and the neutrality required in articles.

Some topic areas within Wikipedia have special editing restrictions that apply to all editors. It's best to avoid these topics until you are extremely familiar with all relevant policies and guidelines.

If you work from reliable, independent sources, you shouldn't go far wrong. WP:RSP and WP:RSN are helpful in determining if a source is reliable.

I hope you find some useful information in all this, and welcome again. --Hipal/Ronz (talk) 22:02, 28 August 2020 (UTC)

Wikipedia and copyright

Hello Desertarun, and welcome to Wikipedia. Your additions to History of the British canal system have been removed in whole or in part, as they appear to have added copyrighted content without evidence that the source material is in the public domain or has been released by its owner or legal agent under a suitably-free and compatible copyright license. (To request such a release, see Wikipedia:Requesting copyright permission.) While we appreciate your contributions to Wikipedia, there are certain things you must keep in mind about using information from sources to avoid copyright and plagiarism issues.

You can only copy/translate a small amount of a source, and you must mark what you take as a direct quotation with double quotation marks (") and cite the source using an inline citation. You can read about this at Wikipedia:Non-free content in the sections on "text". See also Help:Referencing for beginners, for how to cite sources here.
Aside from limited quotation, you must put all information in your own words and structure, in proper paraphrase. Following the source's words too closely can create copyright problems, so it is not permitted here; see Wikipedia:Close paraphrasing. Even when using your own words, you are still, however, asked to cite your sources to verify the information and to demonstrate that the content is not original research.
We have strict guidelines on the usage of copyrighted images. Fair use images must meet all ten of the non-free content criteria in order to be used in articles, or they will be deleted. All other images must be made available under a free and open license that allows commercial and derivative reuse to be used on Wikipedia.
If you own the copyright to the source you want to copy or are a legally designated agent, you may be able to license that text so that we can publish it here. Understand, though, that unlike many other sites, where a person can license their content for use there and retain non-free ownership, that is not possible at Wikipedia. Rather, the release of content must be irrevocable, to the world, into the public domain (PD) or under a suitably-free and compatible copyright license. Such a release must be done in a verifiable manner, so that the authority of the person purporting to release the copyright is evidenced. See Wikipedia:Donating copyrighted materials.
Also note that Wikipedia articles may not be copied or translated without attribution. If you want to copy or translate from another Wikipedia project or article, you must follow the copyright attribution steps in Wikipedia:Translation#How to translate. See also Wikipedia:Copying within Wikipedia.

It's very important that contributors understand and follow these practices, as policy requires that people who persistently do not must be blocked from editing. If you have any questions about this, you are welcome to leave me a message on my talk page. Thank you. — Diannaa (talk) 14:04, 18 September 2020 (UTC)

OK. Desertarun (talk) 14:18, 18 September 2020 (UTC)

Copying within Wikipedia

Thanks for identifying the source of the material in your edit.

This type of edit does get picked up by Copy Patrol and a good edit summary helps to make sure we don't accidentally revert it. However, for future use, would you note the best practices wording as outlined at Wikipedia:Copying_within_Wikipedia? In particular, adding the phrase "see that page's history for attribution" helps ensure that proper attribution is preserved.

I've noticed that this guideline is not very well known, even among editors with tens of thousands of edits, so it isn't surprising that I point this out to some veteran editors, but there are some t's that you need to be crossed.S Philbrick (Talk) 13:22, 10 November 2020 (UTC)

OK, thanks. Desertarun (talk) 13:27, 10 November 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for cleaning up Phycotechnology

Just wanted to say thanks for transforming Phycotechnology into a legible article -- nicely done! ~EdGl talk 20:08, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for the thank you! Desertarun (talk) 20:38, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

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I have sent you a note about a page you started

Hello, Desertarun

Thank you for creating John Dawson (slave trader).

User:Celestina007, while examining this page as a part of our page curation process, had the following comments:

Book sources are good but if you can, please do add more easy to verify online sources. Thanks for creating!

To reply, leave a comment here and begin it with {{Re|Celestina007}}. Please remember to sign your reply with ~~~~ .

(Message delivered via the Page Curation tool, on behalf of the reviewer.)

Celestina007 (talk) 18:11, 19 December 2020 (UTC)

I have sent you a note about a page you started

Hello, Desertarun

Thank you for creating George Case (slave trader).

User:Celestina007, while examining this page as a part of our page curation process, had the following comments:

Please add more easy to verify sources

To reply, leave a comment here and begin it with {{Re|Celestina007}}. Please remember to sign your reply with ~~~~ .

(Message delivered via the Page Curation tool, on behalf of the reviewer.)

Celestina007 (talk) 21:48, 19 December 2020 (UTC)

Citing sources

Thank you for your additions to Fred Roche but please avoid citing 'naked' URLs. Hopefully the corrections I made are enough for you to see what is expected. For the long version, see wp:Citing sources. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 16:56, 13 April 2021 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Zoom face

The article Zoom face has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

See WP:NAD, close to being a Hoax.

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. CommanderWaterford (talk) 10:06, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

Nomination of Zoom face for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Zoom face is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Zoom face until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article.

CommanderWaterford (talk) 10:22, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

The Right to Write

Hello, Desertarun. This is a courtesy notice that the copy edit you requested for The Right to Write at the Guild of Copy Editors requests page is now complete. All feedback welcome! Cheers, Baffle☿gab 02:52, 9 May 2021 (UTC)

Hi Desertarun, the "Summary" section is completely unreferenced, which means it is liable to be removed per WP:VERIFY. Cheers, Baffle☿gab 02:52, 9 May 2021 (UTC)

Thanks. Desertarun (talk) 08:04, 9 May 2021 (UTC)

dyk

Hey, Desartarun! Thanks for building DYK preps, if you can put the credits section in the same order as the hooks, it's helpful to other editors! :D —valereee (talk) 20:29, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

Sure, I know now. Desertarun (talk) 21:07, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

DYK for Joe Ligon

On 30 May 2021, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Joe Ligon, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that Joe Ligon is America's longest serving juvenile lifer? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Joe Ligon. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Joe Ligon), and if they received a combined total of at least 416.7 views per hour (i.e., 5,000 views in 12 hours or 10,000 in 24), the hook may be added to the statistics page. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

— Amakuru (talk) 12:02, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

DYK prep creation

Hi Desertarun, thanks for the work you're putting in at DYK. I've noticed you're putting in hooks and credits in preps through different edits, and it also looks like you may be writing out the credits yourself? If you are, note that for credits there is code in each nomination page that you can just copy and paste into the prep credit section (although you have to do this before substituting the DYK template). This saves typing, and means there is no need to keep track of which author should have a dykmake and which should have a dyknom. Best, CMD (talk) 12:25, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

@Chipmunkdavis: Hi, thanks for pointing that out, this will make the process more efficient! Regards, Desertarun (talk) 12:52, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

Joe Ligon

Hello:

The copy edit you requested from the Guild of Copy Editors of the article Joe Ligon has been completed.

Please let me know if you have any questions or concerns.

The article ran even earlier than you thought, so this copy edit was done after the DYK. It was in good shape and I only made some minor changes to it.

Regards,

18:59, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

@Twofingered Typist: Thank you for an excellent copyedit. DYK switched to 2 hooks per day unexpectedly so my timing wasn't accurate. Regards, Desertarun (talk) 19:04, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

Three Obliques (Walk In)

Thank you for building preps for DYK! A am not happy with Template:Did you know nominations/Three Obliques (Walk In), just promoted to prep1. I am the reviewer and had a question to the nominator only yesterday, so no rush. If you look at the discussion, you see that I was unhappy to pipe the name of her scuplture to a a short "walk in". I let it be because the name was at least given in the image caption, but now no image. I believe that her art is much more unusual and worth showing than another woman's portrait in a series. Would you perhaps just swap the two? ... or - perhaps better - reopen the sculpture nom, to not have two pieces of art in one set? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:47, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

Oh OK, I read the tick at the start of your sentence dated 3 June. I'll re-open it, but you should remove the tick. Desertarun (talk) 07:55, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

Why should I remove the tick for the hook with the image? - The question was just if there could be a better image that shows the Three at a glance. Please place it in approved if you reopen. A different prep builder may take it pictured, and all is fine. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:39, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

I don't understand. I've returned things to as they were. If you now want to leave the tick you are free to do so. Desertarun (talk) 08:43, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

Sorry to jump in, but I've replaced the image so it shows the three slabs. Sorry for the delay. No Swan So Fine (talk) 17:45, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

The new image is an improvement but personally I don't think it is main page quality. So I wouldn't promote it with the picture. It is possible another editor may wish to promote it with the picture, that would be up to them. Desertarun (talk) 17:52, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

How do you define main page quality? We've had the unoriginal Eye of Horus and the Flag of Yugoslavia in recent days! No Swan So Fine (talk) 19:25, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

I used the word personally to indicate it is my opinion. You are free to ask someone else. Desertarun (talk) 19:33, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

DYK nomination for Keihäsmatkat

Thank you for promoting the DYK nomination for Keihäsmatkat. Do you know when it will actually appear on "Did you know"? JIP | Talk 22:58, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

Hi, the update timetable is here Template:Did you know/Queue, it is in Queue 5, so 05:00 LA time, 12:00 UTC on 7 June. Desertarun (talk) 07:13, 5 June 2021 (UTC)
- I saw the DYK hook on the main page myself. It should be gone from there in less than a day now. Once again, thank you! JIP | Talk 22:47, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

DYK nomination of William Gregson (slave trader)

Hello! Your submission of William Gregson (slave trader) at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, ~~and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) at your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible.~~ Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! —Nizolan ^{(talk · c.)} 23:54, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

Scratch that, I managed to find the published version of the source I was bothered about so don't worry about it. Good work. —Nizolan ^{(talk · c.)} 02:41, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

Variety in DYK hooks

Hi! I've swapped two hooks in preps you built, here and here, for increased variety. You had two back-to-back about (broadly) historical fiction, and two back-to-back about music in a set with three music ones. We want more variety within each set where possible. While I was at it, there was a typo and contraction in this one. The hook reviewer should have caught that, but it's your job to if they don't. Let me know if there any issues with this. Thanks! — Bilorv (talk) 12:44, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

You're right I should have done more of a swop around in that set. There are a couple of other editors who are good at finding the smaller details like contractions. I think the admins have more confidence in the sets if I build them but they are signed off by a separate editor, which is just as well! :) Thanks for the comment. Desertarun (talk) 13:06, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for responding kindly. If you think you're rushing it, you can take more time and focus on quality rather than quantity—it felt to me like the hooks were getting filled fast enough before you came along that we didn't have to worry about missing the deadline—but otherwise just try to look out for things in future when someone points them out to you once. All your hard work is appreciated though! — Bilorv (talk) 21:52, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

Joe Beckwith DYK hook

Hi Desertarun. I saw that you promoted Template:Did you know nominations/Joe Beckwith to Prep 6. The reviewer had recommended ALT2, but the prep has the original hook instead. Can you switch it? Regards.—Bagumba (talk) 09:00, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for June 14

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Slave trader articles

Hello. I've noticed that some articles you've recently started, e.g. Thomas Leyland, Peter Baker (slave trader)‎, and until recently, William Davenport (slave trader) seem to have a good deal of tangential content about the Atlantic slave trade or plantation life in general, without clear direct connections to the subjects. Did Thomas Leyland operate Brooks? How is Thomas Thistlewood's diary directly related to Peter Baker (did Baker ever even set foot in the Caribbean)? Certainly the human slave trade was awful, but if the sources don't directly discuss the conditions with respect to the slave traders, than neither should Wikipedia. To do so risks creating original narratives or improper synthesis of published material, or at the very least violates WP:NPOV in giving disproportionate coverage to topics than the published record warrants. Biographical articles should stay focused on the subject. See also Wikipedia:Coatrack articles. All the best, --Animalparty! (talk) 00:14, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

Prep area 3

Hi Desertarun. Prep area 3 is scheduled to run on July 5 UTC. I think you missed one of the two hooks in the special occasion holding area. I'm fine with either of the two being used in the picture slot. —Bloom6132 (talk) 15:45, 23 June 2021 (UTC)

@Bloom6132: I hadn't seen that. I note that you are also requesting a July 6 picture hook. It would be too similar to the July 5 picture and I couldn't promote it as a picture, sorry. Desertarun (talk) 16:01, 23 June 2021 (UTC)

A flag and a coat of arms of different territories are not similar. WP:DYKNN only advises variation for hooks in the same set, not over consecutive sets. If you're not willing to promote it as a picture, then I'll ask on WT:DYK. —Bloom6132 (talk) 16:07, 23 June 2021 (UTC)

Its best to ask on WT:DYK and see what they say. Regards. Desertarun (talk) 16:08, 23 June 2021 (UTC)

DYK Prep area 2

Hi Desertarun and thanks for promoting Elizabeth Mburu for DYK. I'm pretty new to this particular area of wikipedia, but just thought it'd be worth mentioning that the reviewer seemed to think ALT1 was a better hook, and on reflection I would agree with them. Not sure if it's worth considering the change? Thanks Melcous (talk) 08:01, 1 July 2021 (UTC)

Yes, OK, i'll switch it. Desertarun (talk) 08:06, 1 July 2021 (UTC)

DYK

Hi Desertarun. Takes for promoting Template:Did you know nominations/Jordan Geller. Is there a reason why the photo wasn't used? Is the quality not good enough? Thanks Dr. Swag Lord (talk) 23:18, 1 July 2021 (UTC)

Hi, the picture is ok. Around 3 in 8 nominations have a picture but we can only feature 1 in 8 pictures on the main page. Desertarun (talk) 08:29, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

yes, and I know, but some are really poor without a pic, including Template:Did you know nominations/Shrine of Miosach. There's no rush, an unusual piece of art could wait for an image slot. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:24, 7 July 2021 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Thomas Leyland

Hello! Your submission of Thomas Leyland at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) at your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Ykraps (talk) 07:10, 6 July 2021 (UTC)

Good work

Listen, don't think your work putting together the backlog drive proposal wasn't appreciated. (It was a bit overdetailed -- remember, simpler is usually better.) And even with the new system (if it happens) in place, remember it's primarily meant to keep a backlog from forming, and might take quite a while to eat down the existing backlog. So there may be place for a one-time drive after all. E Eng 15:08, 7 July 2021 (UTC)

Prep 3

Hi, I saw you promoted Lion and Tusk. Can I ask if that can be moved to a later set so it can be in an image slot please? I ask as I did politely ask in the nom. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 17:58, 7 July 2021 (UTC)

Hi, sorry, I don't want to move it. You could ask on Wikipedia talk:Did you know and someone else may do this for you. Desertarun (talk) 18:40, 7 July 2021 (UTC)

Picture hooks

I won't move, alter, un-promote or otherwise change a hook I have promoted without its picture. Requests regarding this matter will be transcluded to Wikipedia talk:Did you know and I will answer there. Desertarun (talk) 18:57, 7 July 2021 (UTC)

dyk preps

Hey, Desertarun! Just as an FYI for the future -- it's helpful to leave at least a few slots open in DYK prep to allow for other editors to have somewhere to move hooks that need to be swapped. I need to swap out the image hook from Q2 into a non-image slot, and I have nowhere to easily swap it to, which means I have to return it to the approved nominations page or wait until the next queue goes live, a prep opens up, and swap it then. Not a big deal, I can try to do it tomorrow morning, but just FYI that a few open slots in prep are a helpful thing. —valereee (talk) 20:14, 7 July 2021 (UTC)

Hi Valereee. I will leave open a couple of slots in future. It just never occurred to me. Regards. Desertarun (talk) 20:21, 7 July 2021 (UTC)

No worries at all, you're doing good work, and it's appreciated. If you haven't had to make any swaps, you would have no reason to know that a few empty slots in the bottom preps are helpful! —valereee (talk) 22:08, 7 July 2021 (UTC)

Planet Her

Hey, Desertarun! It looks like when you promoted Template:Did you know nominations/Planet Her, the image and the source for the hook assertion had already been removed from the article. When you promote an article, one of the things you need to do is check the history since the review to see if there've been any changes in the article, and if there have been, you need to check to make sure they don't affect the hook/hook image/hook source.

When I first was learning to build sets, it would take me about two hours to build one. —valereee (talk) 14:01, 8 July 2021 (UTC)

Hi Valereee, the picture was in the article when I checked it. I'm not exactly sure when I checked it though, this may have been a few days before. Anyway I'll bear this in mind and check it at the time I promote it. Desertarun (talk) 14:13, 8 July 2021 (UTC)

In the absence of a declared pronoun preference, shouldn't we be using singular they and calling it "Planet They" (or maybe "Planet Them" or "Planet Their" -- this stuff is really getting confusing)? E Eng 15:16, 8 July 2021 (UTC)

'calling it "Planet They"'. Calling it? it? Rude. Belle (talk) 16:23, 8 July 2021 (UTC)

'You almost had me there for a second, but 'it refers to the album, not the planet. E Eng 16:25, 8 July 2021 (UTC)

How do we know what the album prefers? —valereee (talk) 16:43, 8 July 2021 (UTC)

Desertarun, I just realized you've only nominated a single DYK yourself, which means you may not have done many reviews. How many reviews have you done on DYK nominations? —valereee (talk) 16:29, 8 July 2021 (UTC)

I have about 6 articles I've made and nominated and about 12 I've reviewed because the topic interested me. Desertarun (talk) 16:31, 8 July 2021 (UTC)

So, did you realize that the promoter is actually supposed to do a re-review? I'm looking at your promotions, and sometimes you're promoting articles to prep every couple minutes. At that level of experience (heck, at my level of experience) it takes much longer than that to conduct a review. When I first started building prep sets, it generally took me 2 hours to build a set -- about fifteen minutes each to find a good hook that would balance the set, then review that hook and article, then promote. Even now it takes me about ten minutes per hook promoted, over an hour for a complete set.

The process involves several reviews: one each by the reviewer, the promoter, and the admin who moves to queue. Especially when the nominator and/or reviewer are inexperienced, it's very important for the promoter to do their review. I know you are working very hard to keep preps filled, but it looks to me like you're filling almost every prep right now. You don't need to take that all on. It's much more important to be thorough. —valereee (talk) 16:40, 8 July 2021 (UTC)

I'm going to take a break from DYK. I know that isn't your intention here, just to get me to slow down, so there's no hard feelings. There's just lots of other things I could also be doing. To answer the question how I can be so quick...its because I read the articles before hand and I have 4 computer monitors with all the windows open! :) Desertarun (talk) 18:37, 8 July 2021 (UTC)

Pssst

You are a highly effective discussant/debater. Would you like to join the cabal? If so, be in the third pew from the rear at noon on St. Swithun's day. Come alone and wear a begonia. E Eng 18:00, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

EEng, we've talked about this. They've caught on to the begonia thing. We're on to carnations. —valereee (talk) 18:18, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

Fool! Use the secure channel! E Eng 18:27, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

LOL. Thanks for the compliment. I'm only good for static chat though! :) Desertarun (talk) 19:05, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

Fly! Fly! —valereee (talk) 19:06, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

:-) Desertarun (talk) 19:09, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

DYK nomination of William Earle (slave trader)

Hello! Your submission of William Earle (slave trader) at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) at your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! BuySomeApples (talk) 05:17, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

DYK nomination of George Webster (painter)

Hello! Your submission of George Webster (painter) at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) at your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! DrThneed (talk) 23:09, 23 July 2021 (UTC)

Brass

Are you aware of this brass for slaves? Victuallers (talk) 17:09, 28 July 2021 (UTC)

@Victuallers: I wasn't until now :) In the Ralph Fisher article it doesn't elaborate on what the brass was, but I can see now it was brass currency of some description. I'm wondering if that DYK has stalled because I don't say enough about Fisher himself, a lot of the article is about one of his captains. I just can't find any other sources about him unfortunately. Desertarun (talk) 19:48, 28 July 2021 (UTC)

The meme of this is that many of the plundered Benin bronzes now in the British museum maybe came from brass sourced from Birmingham. They were not setting sail with "beads" but with a currency ready to trade with African slavers thereby extending the slave trade to the Americas. Victuallers (talk) 22:16, 28 July 2021 (UTC)

I understand now, the brass was used to buy enslaved people and then the artwork it was used for pillaged, meaning those people were not even bought, just stolen... Desertarun (talk) 07:49, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

American Pre-Raphaelites

Hello:

The copy edit you requested from the Guild of Copy Editors of the article American Pre-Raphaelites has been completed.

Please let me know if you have any questions or concerns.

Regards,

Twofingered Typist (talk) 15:59, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Zong massacre

For your information, I have moved the George Case hook to a later set so as not to have two hooks about the Zong massacre in close proximity. Interesting articles! Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:03, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

DYK nomination of John Knight (slave trader)

Hello! Your submission of John Knight (slave trader) at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) at your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Nick-D (talk) 23:16, 4 September 2021 (UTC)

DYK for Coral reef restoration

On 16 July 2021, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Coral reef restoration, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that coral reef restoration can include growing fragments of coral in nurseries, attached to frames (pictured) or lines? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Coral Reef Restoration. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Coral reef restoration), and if they received a combined total of at least 416.7 views per hour (i.e., 5,000 views in 12 hours or 10,000 in 24), the hook may be added to the statistics page. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Cwmhiraeth (talk) 00:02, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Shane Warne

Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Shane Warne you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of No Great Shaker -- No Great Shaker (talk) 15:20, 4 April 2022 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Shane Warne

The article Shane Warne you nominated as a good article has failed ; see Talk:Shane Warne for reasons why the nomination failed. If or when these points have been taken care of, you may apply for a new nomination of the article. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of No Great Shaker -- No Great Shaker (talk) 22:01, 4 April 2022 (UTC)

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DYK for William Gregson (slave trader)

On 11 July 2021, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article William Gregson (slave trader), which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that in a court case, William Gregson was awarded £30 for every enslaved person that his crew had murdered in the Zong massacre? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/William Gregson (slave trader). You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, William Gregson (slave trader)), and if they received a combined total of at least 416.7 views per hour (i.e., 5,000 views in 12 hours or 10,000 in 24), the hook may be added to the statistics page. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Cwmhiraeth (talk) 12:02, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

		Hook update
		Your hook reached 8,222 views (685.2 per hour), making it one of the most viewed hooks of July 2021 – nice work!

theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 01:04, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

DYK for George Case (slave trader)

On 15 July 2021, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article George Case (slave trader), which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that George Case was the co-owner of the slave ship whose crew perpetrated the Zong massacre? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/George Case (slave trader). You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, George Case (slave trader)), and if they received a combined total of at least 416.7 views per hour (i.e., 5,000 views in 12 hours or 10,000 in 24), the hook may be added to the statistics page. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

— Amakuru (talk) 00:02, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

DYK for William Davenport (slave trader)

On 16 July 2021, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article William Davenport (slave trader), which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that William Davenport was one of the world's most prolific slave traders? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/William Davenport (slave trader). You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, William Davenport (slave trader)), and if they received a combined total of at least 416.7 views per hour (i.e., 5,000 views in 12 hours or 10,000 in 24), the hook may be added to the statistics page. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Cwmhiraeth (talk) 00:04, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

DYK for Thomas Leyland

On 20 July 2021, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Thomas Leyland, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that the slave trader Thomas Leyland won a lottery, transported 22,365 enslaved Africans, and became Lord Mayor of Liverpool? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Thomas Leyland. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Thomas Leyland), and if they received a combined total of at least 416.7 views per hour (i.e., 5,000 views in 12 hours or 10,000 in 24), the hook may be added to the statistics page. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

— Amakuru (talk) 00:02, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

DYK for Peter Baker (slave trader)

On 30 July 2021, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Peter Baker (slave trader), which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that Baker & Dawson was the largest firm of slave traders in England during the late 18th century? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Peter Baker (slave trader). You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Peter Baker (slave trader)), and if they received a combined total of at least 416.7 views per hour (i.e., 5,000 views in 12 hours or 10,000 in 24), the hook may be added to the statistics page. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

— Maile (talk) 12:02, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

DYK for George Webster (painter)

On 2 August 2021, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article George Webster (painter), which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that George Webster painted two British slave-ships (pictured) taking onboard enslaved people from Fort Christiansborg? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/George Webster (painter). You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, George Webster (painter)), and if they received a combined total of at least 416.7 views per hour (i.e., 5,000 views in 12 hours or 10,000 in 24), the hook may be added to the statistics page. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Cwmhiraeth (talk) 12:02, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

DYK for Ralph Fisher

On 8 August 2021, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Ralph Fisher, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that Ralph Fisher bought enslaved people with brass? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Ralph Fisher. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Ralph Fisher), and if they received a combined total of at least 416.7 views per hour (i.e., 5,000 views in 12 hours or 10,000 in 24), the hook may be added to the statistics page. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Cwmhiraeth (talk) 12:03, 8 August 2021 (UTC)

DYK for Francis Ingram

On 13 August 2021, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Francis Ingram, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that Francis Ingram pioneered the British slave trade at Porto-Novo? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Francis Ingram. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Francis Ingram), and if they received a combined total of at least 416.7 views per hour (i.e., 5,000 views in 12 hours or 10,000 in 24), the hook may be added to the statistics page. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Cwmhiraeth (talk) 00:02, 13 August 2021 (UTC)

DYK for William Earle (slave trader)

On 19 August 2021, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article William Earle (slave trader), which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that William Earle referred to slave traders as "Bite Men"? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/William Earle (slave trader). You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, William Earle (slave trader)), and if they received a combined total of at least 416.7 views per hour (i.e., 5,000 views in 12 hours or 10,000 in 24), the hook may be added to the statistics page. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Cwmhiraeth (talk) 00:03, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

DYK for Thomas Earle (slave trader)

On 25 August 2021, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Thomas Earle (slave trader), which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that Thomas Earle had his slave-ship Annabella seized by the British Crown, not for slave trading, but for slave trading with the enemy? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Thomas Earle (slave trader). You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Thomas Earle (slave trader)), and if they received a combined total of at least 416.7 views per hour (i.e., 5,000 views in 12 hours or 10,000 in 24), the hook may be added to the statistics page. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Cwmhiraeth (talk) 00:03, 25 August 2021 (UTC)

DYK for William James (slave trader)

On 1 September 2021, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article William James (slave trader), which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that the slave trader William James left for his country retreat before rioting sailors ransacked his home? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/William James (slave trader). You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, William James (slave trader)), and if they received a combined total of at least 416.7 views per hour (i.e., 5,000 views in 12 hours or 10,000 in 24), the hook may be added to the statistics page. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

— Amakuru (talk) 00:02, 1 September 2021 (UTC)

DYK for Hardman Earle

On 8 September 2021, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Hardman Earle, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that Sir Hardman Earle, 1st Baronet's father, grandfather and great-grandfather were all slave traders? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Hardman Earle. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Hardman Earle), and if they received a combined total of at least 416.7 views per hour (i.e., 5,000 views in 12 hours or 10,000 in 24), the hook may be added to the statistics page. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 00:03, 8 September 2021 (UTC)

There is a statement in passing that needs a bit more development:

"When slave ownership was abolished in the British Colonies, the British Government compensated the owners..."

When was this? There is Slave Trade Act 1807, Slavery Abolition Act 1833, and Slave Compensation Act 1837. It is the unstated unexposed inter-relationship of events that is really interesting. For example, did he take his compensation of 18xx and *then* invest in railways? Making his investments 'tainted'? Shenme (talk) 01:48, 8 September 2021 (UTC)

There is a lot of research going on around this topic. i.e. just how much of the British economy today is the result of the slave trade? Some commentators put this at 10-20%. The slavers sent their offspring to Cambridge University, built amazing country homes, invested in the railways and set up new banks. I have no doubt Hardman used slave money to invest in the railway, I don't have a reference that says this specifically though, so can't put this in the article. Much of the British Empire is tainted. Desertarun (talk) 07:52, 8 September 2021 (UTC)

DYK for Marie Séraphique

On 13 September 2021, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Marie Séraphique, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that "the most accurate contemporary picture of conditions" on slave ships is an illustration of the Marie Séraphique (pictured)? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Marie Séraphique. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Marie Séraphique), and if they received a combined total of at least 416.7 views per hour (i.e., 5,000 views in 12 hours or 10,000 in 24), the hook may be added to the statistics page. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

— Amakuru (talk) 00:02, 13 September 2021 (UTC)

		Hook update
		Your hook reached 41,575 views (1,732.3 per hour), making it one of the most viewed hooks of September 2021 – nice work!

theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 21:46, 9 May 2022 (UTC)

Thomas Parr & Parr (1797 ship)

Hi Deartarun, thanks for creating the page for Thomas Parr. I specialize in the vessels and it's nice to be able to link some of the vessels through their ownership. As far as Parr herself is concerned, I don't take burthen numbers as definitive. The calculations were cumbersome pre-electronic calculators. The numbers that appear in various sources are often estimates, or rough calculations, or subject to truncations or rounding. I look to a variety of clues such as master, owner, trade, etc. to infer identity and continuity. Net-net, neither burthen number is gospel. (People who write on more modern vessels assure me that the dimensions of the same vessel taken at different times are often slightly inconsistent.) Anyway, I will add the info you have on Parr to the article, and would appreciate it if you could add the citations. In the meantime I will work on some of Parr's wholly-owned vessels. Cheers, Acad Ronin (talk) 22:45, 18 September 2021 (UTC)

I've added a ref to Parr. I added Marie Seraphique recently and might add another slave ship here and there. I like looking for anecdotes about the ships and people. If the anecdote has survived this long its often highly unusual. Parr could accommodate 700 slaves, apparently, if it was to keep to the government regulation it must have been a behemoth, it is hard to get a true idea of the scale without seeing them in person. Desertarun (talk) 08:36, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for adding the refs. I added the ISBN (978-067001823) to them. As for the size, Parr was about the size of a small frigate. Relative to vessels in the slave trade she was large, but there were West Indiamen as large, and relative to East Indiamen of the period, she was a half to a third their size. If you are looking for anecdotes from the slave ships you might look at Hugh Crowe's autobiography (see Kitty's Amelia), or if you haven't already, Gomer Williams's book on Liverpool privateers and letters of marque. regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 11:45, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

I've only just realised there is a category for Liverpool Slave Ships, with I presume mostly articles you created. I only add Liverpool based slave traders so I'll be sure to link them to their boats. Desertarun (talk) 15:25, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

@Acad Ronin: I've nominated Thomas Parr at DYK, as a contributor I've added you to the credits. The template is here Template:Did you know nominations/Thomas Parr (slave trader). You won't be called upon to make any alterations to the article as part of the nomination process, I will do that. If you'd prefer not to be in the credits then this is OK, you could let me know or remove yourself. Desertarun (talk) 20:57, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

Hi Desertarun, 1) I look forward to your linking the Liverpool slave ships to their owners. One of the things that makes WP such a resource is the linkages (rabbit holes). 2) Thanks for credit on the DYK. I stopped nominating articles I created when WP introduced the requirement that obligated authors of DYKs to also serve as reviewers on other people's DYKs - I didn't want the bother of getting involved in articles outside my lane. Still, I have on occasion accepted credit when others have done the heavy lifting, so thanks.Acad Ronin (talk) 21:06, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

I can understand that. I built preps for DYK on the main page for a while and learnt the process. So reviewing other peoples articles isn't such a bother for me anymore. Desertarun (talk) 21:10, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

DYK for John Knight (slave trader)

On 23 September 2021, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article John Knight (slave trader), which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that the slave trader John Knight transported more than 26,000 Africans to the Americas? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/John Knight (slave trader). You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, John Knight (slave trader)), and if they received a combined total of at least 416.7 views per hour (i.e., 5,000 views in 12 hours or 10,000 in 24), the hook may be added to the statistics page. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

— Amakuru (talk) 12:02, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

The picture of the portrait of Knight is captioned 'politician', but I can find no reference to his political activities in the article. Outstanding work, by the way. No Swan So Fine (talk) 16:07, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

I've also created Category:African Company of Merchants for places and participants No Swan So Fine (talk) 16:18, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

The category is a good one, I've not seen some of those pages before, will take a look. Desertarun (talk) 18:20, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

		Hook update
		Your hook reached 10,168 views (847.3 per hour), making it one of the most viewed hooks of September 2021 – nice work!

theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 21:46, 9 May 2022 (UTC)

DYK for Felix Doran (slave trader)

On 26 September 2021, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Felix Doran (slave trader), which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that Dorans Lane in Liverpool is named after Felix Doran, who "seems to cling ghost-like to the area"? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Felix Doran (slave trader). You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Felix Doran (slave trader)), and if they received a combined total of at least 416.7 views per hour (i.e., 5,000 views in 12 hours or 10,000 in 24), the hook may be added to the statistics page. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

— Maile (talk) 12:02, 26 September 2021 (UTC)

DYK for Thomas Parr (slave trader)

On 4 October 2021, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Thomas Parr (slave trader), which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that after they met, evolutionary scientist Charles Darwin described Thomas Parr as an "old, miserly squire"? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Thomas Parr (slave trader). You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Thomas Parr (slave trader)), and if they received a combined total of at least 416.7 views per hour (i.e., 5,000 views in 12 hours or 10,000 in 24), the hook may be added to the statistics page. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Cwmhiraeth (talk) 00:03, 4 October 2021 (UTC)

DYK for William Whaley

On 9 October 2021, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article William Whaley, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that William Whaley advised William Earle to "purchase all the elephants teeth you possible can"? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Division of Industrial Hygiene. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, William Whaley), and if they received a combined total of at least 416.7 views per hour (i.e., 5,000 views in 12 hours or 10,000 in 24), the hook may be added to the statistics page. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Schwede 66 00:53, 9 October 2021 (UTC)

DYK for Thomas Foxcroft (slave trader)

On 10 October 2021, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Thomas Foxcroft (slave trader), which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that Thomas Foxcroft sold 307 people for £9,858? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Thomas Foxcroft (slave trader). You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Thomas Foxcroft (slave trader)), and if they received a combined total of at least 416.7 views per hour (i.e., 5,000 views in 12 hours or 10,000 in 24), the hook may be added to the statistics page. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

— Maile (talk) 00:02, 10 October 2021 (UTC)

DYK for Edward Parr

On 21 October 2021, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Edward Parr, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that Edward Parr's slave ship was once surrounded by 10 war canoes? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Edward Parr. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Edward Parr), and if they received a combined total of at least 416.7 views per hour (i.e., 5,000 views in 12 hours or 10,000 in 24), the hook may be added to the statistics page. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

— Maile (talk) 00:02, 21 October 2021 (UTC)

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I have sent you a note about a page you started

Hello, Desertarun. Thank you for your work on Maurice Hastings. User:SunDawn, while examining this page as a part of our page curation process, had the following comments:

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To reply, leave a comment here and begin it with {{Re|SunDawn}}. Please remember to sign your reply with ~~~~. (Message delivered via the Page Curation tool, on behalf of the reviewer.)

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Ramon Simmonds moved to draftspace

An article you recently created, Ramon Simmonds, is not suitable as written to remain published. It needs more citations from reliable, independent sources. (?) No real WP:SECONDARY sourcing. Ref for database generated websites are no longer sufficient. scope_creep^Talk 11:29, 15 December 2022 (UTC)

Captain Tomba

Hi, do you think the John Leadstine mentioned in the article is actually John Leadstone? Cacrats (talk) 23:19, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

Hi, they're different people. Leadstine was a government official. Desertarun (talk) 08:08, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Shane Warne

Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Shane Warne you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Boca Jóvenes -- Boca Jóvenes (talk) 16:40, 21 October 2022 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Shane Warne

The article Shane Warne you nominated as a good article has failed ; see Talk:Shane Warne for reasons why the nomination failed. If or when these points have been taken care of, you may apply for a new nomination of the article. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Boca Jóvenes -- Boca Jóvenes (talk) 21:41, 21 October 2022 (UTC)

Shane Warne

Hello, Desertarun. This is a courtesy notice that the copy edit you requested for Shane Warne at the Guild of Copy Editors requests page is now complete. All feedback welcome! Cheers, Baffle☿gab 04:09, 24 June 2022 (UTC)

Hi Desertarun, I removed a small portion of text from "Wider influence on cricket"; you can find the text, its ref and an explanation of the article's talk page. Good luck with your planned GA nom and cheers, Baffle☿gab 04:09, 24 June 2022 (UTC).

@Baffle gab1978: Thank you for doing such a thorough job! and regards. Desertarun (talk) 08:19, 24 June 2022 (UTC)

ITN recognition for Shane Warne

On 4 March 2022, In the news was updated with an item that involved the article Shane Warne, which you updated. If you know of another recently created or updated article suitable for inclusion in ITN, please suggest it on the candidates page. — Amakuru (talk) 20:51, 4 March 2022 (UTC)

El Draque

Hi Desertarun! I've been following, with much interest, your epic editing to the Drake article.

Regarding that "El Draque" moniker, as I mentioned in passing, it ain't Spanish for "dragon" (see below), but rather the result of the [historical] Spanish tendency to Hispanicize foreign names. By way of example, contemporary accounts, such as those by Antonio de Padilla, President of the Council of the Indies in 1579 [very briefly, because he died after only a year in the post], in his letters to King Philip II, letters which would not be for popular consumption, refer to Francisco Draque. ((in Spanish) Marqués de Fuensanta del Valle (Feliciano Ramírez de Arellano), et al. "Draque". Colección de documentos inéditos para la historia de España, vol. XCIV, pp. 432–458. Internet Archive.)

These letters are of interest because they predate, by some 20 years, Lope de Vega's epic La dragontea (published circa 1598), in which the author makes the very simple pun on Drake/draco (Latin) and dragón (Spanish). This is possibly (I'm guessing) the work that most people would associate with the popularisation of the dragon image (apart from Drake himself having a dragon on his coat-of-arms). And, what's more interesting, is that even Lope, in this work, expresses admiration for Drake's prowess as a navigator, as do several contemporary accounts, which also refer to his courage, generosity, etc., contrary to what popular media in Spain continue to claim.

In this context, it's also necessary to take into account the fact that Lope's poem was specifically commissioned to defend Diego Suárez de Amaya against Alonso de Sotomayor before Philip II.((in Spanish) García Redondo, José María & Consuelo Varela, 2013. [https://digital.csic.es/bitstream/10261/255100/1/Ecos_literarios_Drake_GarciaRedondo_PV_Art2013.pdf "Literary Echoes and Cartographic Memory of Francis Drake’s Famous Voyage". Anuario de Estudios Americanos, 70, 2.] CSIC.)

On the other hand, and precisely in allusion to Drake, draque is a hot or cold alcholic drink made of spiced aguardiente (in this case, due to the relationship to the Indies, probably basically rum, but could also refer to brandy). ((in Spanish) Real Academia Española. "draque". Diccionario de la lengua española, Edición del Tricentenario: Actualización 2022)

Be that as it may, as I'm sure you're aware, the truth is merely what people want to believe it to be.

Sorry for the lengthy spiel, but thought it might interest you. Regards, --Technopat (talk) 11:55, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

@Technopat: Hi, it is interesting to think he may have been called after some rum! The Spanish also gave John Hawkins a nickname - "Juan Aquines" - which if you say it quickly enough sounds like his name in English. Regards, Desertarun (talk) 12:04, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

Yes, indeed. There are a couple of other well-known cases which, for the moment, escape me. Of course, this "pragmatic" approach to saying/spelling foreign names is, or has been, universal, as is the case of many migrants to the United States. But I digress. Regards, --Technopat (talk) 12:23, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

Drake

Hello, I wanted to thank you for your contributions to the Francis Drake article and alert you to a discussion on the Talk:Francis Drake page that may interest you. Several editors object to using the term “slave trader” in the opening sentence. Ynizcw (talk) 03:13, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

@Ynizcw:. Hi, Western culture is more used to depicting pirates as swash buckling heroes than the cruel, robbers and murderers that they actually were. So I don't see a quick or easy answer to this I'm afraid. Regards, Desertarun (talk) 05:04, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

Ellen

Hi Desertarun, do you have enough on her to get her past the notability religious police? Is it all from Schwartz? If there is enough, I believe could put together an article on her. Cheers , Acad Ronin (talk) 16:54, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

Hi, I have enough on Ellen for it to pass GNG from Schwartz. A big chunk of the book is about the ship because Irving actually wrote letters from her that are at the Merseyside Maritime Musuem and a source of academic research. I'm not inclined to create the article, but I will fill in from Schwartz to ensure it passes GNG if you do so. Desertarun (talk) 17:14, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

I have prepared the article and it is good to go. I found a copy of Schwarz and added from it, but would appreciate your looking it over to see what else you can add. I will put it up shortly. Cheers, Acad Ronin (talk) 19:39, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

The article is up under Doe (1782 ship), her first name in British service. Cheers, Acad Ronin (talk) 19:47, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

I added a little bit about the 5th voyage. Irving forced his third mate, Bailey, to stay aboard and tied him to the mast while they were moored at Ulverston in England. Seems odd that Irving dies and Bailey brings the ship home. Maybe Bailey threw him into the Atlantic as revenge! Desertarun (talk) 22:35, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

Charles III requested move discussion

There is a new requested move discussion in progress for the Charles III article. Since you participated in the previous discussion, I thought you might like to know about this one. Cheers. Rreagan007 (talk) 07:06, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

August 2023 Good Article Nominations backlog drive

Good article nominations \| August 2023 Backlog Drive
August 2023 Backlog Drive: On 1 August, a one-month backlog drive for good article nominations will begin. Barnstars will be awarded. Interested in taking part? You can sign up here.
Other ways to participate: Join the conversations on our talkpage
You're receiving this message because you have reviewed or nominated a good article in the last year. (t · c) buidhe 05:15, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

Other British monarch requested move discussions currently taking place

Since you recently participated in the Charles III requested move discussion, I thought you might like to know that there are two other discussions currently going on about other British monarch article titles here and here. Cheers. Rreagan007 (talk) 22:22, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

Thanks!

Many thanks for reviewing Christ Church Ground. Nice to have a minor counties venue at GA (possibly the first minor counties topic at GA too). StickyWicket aka AA (talk) 22:05, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

@StickeyWicket: No worries. My current home ground is a world away from Christ Church. The pavilion is more like a grotty 1970s shed. The wicket is uncovered so bouncers dribble along the floor. It doubles up as a park, nothing like a friendly stray dog to provide some entertainment! Desertarun (talk) 14:46, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

They're the best grounds. I used to play out of an old barn, which was a far cry from youth development at the Rose Bowl when I was 20-years younger!!! StickyWicket aka AA (talk) 15:34, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

@StickeyWicket: Blimey what about that Test match and series! Go Broady! My son is going for fast bowling trials at Glamorgan this weekend, will see. Desertarun (talk) 17:37, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

Yeah pretty decent. Still think the tempo of 'Bazball' is too rushed and because of that they throw wickets away and make less runs than if they applied themselves a little more. Good luck to him! Hope he does well. Is he fast in the Brett Lee mould, or a swinger of the ball like Anderson? StickyWicket aka AA (talk) 21:06, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

I like Bazball in general and think it works because the quicker scoring causes the fielding team to take slips out early. I await some kind of book that analyses it in depth. He's modelled his bowling action on Steyn and Gleeson. Pace is king! Desertarun (talk) 09:49, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ami Dror (2nd nomination) Afd closure

@Desertarun: Your not an admin. That is a contentious Afd on an article with no sources, and your not admin. I suggest you revert your changes, now. scope_creep^Talk 20:30, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

@Desertarun: Why have you not reverted this. scope_creep^Talk 20:34, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

I've raised this with admin since you have no clue what your doing. You never close contentious Afd's unless your an admin. You don't have the experience. You won't be an admin, that I'm sure. scope_creep^Talk 20:51, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/1996 Abakan Ilyushin Il-76 crash (2nd nomination) Afd closure

Hello, may I know why you closed Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/1996 Abakan Ilyushin Il-76 crash (2nd nomination) and could you provide a rationale? Per WP:CLOSEAFD, Consensus is not based on a tally of votes, but on reasonable, logical, policy-based arguments. In my opinion, it seems like you closed the discussion based on the number of keep votes without taking into account the policy based arguments I cited. Aviationwikiflight (talk) 16:53, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

I've re-closed this with the rationale. I won't be re-opening this, if you wish to pursue a re-open with an admin then you are free to do so. Regards, Desertarun (talk) 17:14, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

According to your rationale, my contention that "this was a run-of-the-mill event" was not accepted. So because one of my arguments was "not accepted" means that my entire argument is flawed? With policy-based arguments including WP:LASTING, WP:GEOSCOPE, WP:GNG, WP:INDEPTH (with a lack of reliable verifiable sources) automatically disregarded? Consensus is based on logical policy-based arguments. Whether or not my arguments were flawed, to state that one of my flawed contentions was enough to close an entire discussion is not how it works. Regards. Aviationwikiflight (talk) 18:22, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

I don't have anything else to add to my previous comment. Desertarun (talk) 18:25, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

Deletion review for 1996 Abakan Ilyushin Il-76 crash

An editor has asked for a deletion review of 1996 Abakan Ilyushin Il-76 crash. Because you closed the deletion discussion for this page, speedily deleted it, or otherwise were interested in the page, you might want to participate in the deletion review. Aviationwikiflight (talk) 10:08, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

History of the British canal system

Clear reasons were provided to justify the changes that were made (see https://wiki.riteme.site/w/index.php?title=History_of_the_British_canal_system&oldid=1193079938).

If you seek to undo changes made to an article, you must justify your action with material evidence that demonstrates the changes in question were factually incorrect.

-Basdeninard — Preceding unsigned comment added by Basdeninard (talk • contribs) 20:11, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

You removed by page cuz of the Original Research thing

I have added research now in the 2023 Cricket World Cup. Pharaoh496 (talk) 03:17, 3 November 2023 (UTC)

John Dawson (slave trader)‎

Hi Desertarun, thanks for adding the vessels. Where are you getting the info? I would like to follow up. Cheers, Acad Ronin (talk) 00:25, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

@Acad Ronin:. Hi, the ebook I'm reading is Slave Captain - The Career of James Irving (slave trader). I've re'd the ships I added. The book contains a lot of info on Ellen. Irving himself was a slave trader who became a slave himself, and upon release went straight back to slaving before dying on his very next voyage! The morality of this is hard to fathom. Regards, Desertarun (talk) 09:25, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

Hi Derertun, I will have to get the book. As for the morality: "The past is another country, they do things differently there." One of the difficulties I am facing in keeping some of my articles about slave ships from being deleted is that slavery was so normal, no one wrote about it or the ships, so it is hard today to establish Wikipedia "notability". Anyway, thanks for getting back to me. Cheers, Acad Ronin (talk) 10:56, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

@Acad Ronin: I think every slave ship is notable. Is there a way of keeping track if/when slave ships come up for deletion? If so I'll watch that page. Regards, Desertarun (talk) 11:02, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

Hi Desertarun, unfortunately, under Wikipedia rules, I may not solicit/canvas for support when an article is up for deletion. My talk page is not a bad place to look to observe the process, though many of my articles up for deletion are whalers, and just straight, boring merchantmen. Wikipedia has some weird practices. A naval ship is automatically notable; that part of WP Ships has won for itself an automatic, presumed notability. A slave ship that went down without a trace, drowning 200 people aboard, is not notable because nobody wrote about the incident and so there is nothing in the press, or in books, then or now, about the vessel, beyond one line in Lloyd's List that she foundered with all aboard. On another note: in both the Irving and Dawson articles you have put up, there is a reference to "Schwartz" - what is that? Cheers, Acad Ronin (talk) 11:16, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

@Acad Ronin: I agree with the sentiment. As for Schwarz it is the author of the book/source Slave Captain - The Career of James Irving (slave trader). Maybe I've not formatted it properly, I'm not sure. Regards, Desertarun (talk) 11:21, 9 December 2022 (UTC)