User talk:Derek Ross/2009

2008 talk archive

A guid new year tae ane and a

Thanks, Dave. Lang may yer ain lum reek! -- Derek Ross | Talk 06:29, 2 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Cumbernauld

Hi, Derek! Happy new year! How pronounce 2 letters "AU" in the name scotish town Cumbernauld ? (Прон, Bulgaria)87.126.110.132 (talk) 09:42, 4 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Happy New Year, Прон. These letters are pronounced as a single sound. "-nauld" rhymes with "called", "bawled", "hauled" and "trawled". It does not rhyme with "cold", "bowled", "hold", or "fold". In the word, "follow", the first "o" represents the "au" sound but the second "o" is not. -- Derek Ross | Talk 18:09, 4 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

"What's it called? Cumbernauld!!" This was the slogan the politicians of Cumbernauld came up with for their fair town. Not a lot more you can say for it to be honest. ;)This was not a message from the Scottish tourist board. Titch Tucker (talk) 18:24, 4 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Hadn't heard that one before, Titch. Very good. Tourist Officer for Cumbernauld may not be the world's most difficult job but it must certainly come close. -- Derek Ross | Talk 18:31, 4 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

OK, very thanks ! (Прон). 87.126.110.132 (talk) 09:10, 5 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Guid Ne'er!

Hope all is well with you and yours.

Just to put a wee downer on your annus terrificus, a question and a heads-up:

Are you still an Admin on the English language wikipedia? I cannot see any such cat on your User page.
I have mentioned you in despatches. Just thought you ought to know: [1].

I really ought to have a private chat with you and other senior Wikipedians I trust/respect, so I will probably get myself a dedicated e-mail address in the near future. Deacon recently said that he was surprised that I didn't have email, and I explained that one reason is that I cannot stand cabals. But I can see that other less scrupulous Users have no such qualms. Cin cin. --Mais oui! (talk) 11:35, 7 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Mentioned in despatches ? Wow, I feel honoured. In any case I am still an admin. The reason that I don't have anything about it on my User page is that while I'm happy to be an administrator, I'm not particularly proud of it. It's just a useful set of tools for me. If I wasn't an admin I'd still keep on editing much the way I do at the moment.

Re email addresses. I'm pretty surprised you don't have one too. GMail is pretty good and so is the Yahoo offering. I don't like cabals either but I wouldn't worry too much. There are a couple of Wikipedians who I swap email with from time to time on subjects that are a bit too sensitive or too personal to put on the wiki: mostly anti-vandal stuff. But as long as we're not co-ordinating a Master-Plan-for-Wiki-Domination, there's no reason why we shouldn't have a private chat.

Anyroad, lang may yer lum reek, castna a clout til May be oot, etc. and thanks for the mention! -- Derek Ross | Talk 16:28, 7 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

"... while I'm happy to be an administrator, I'm not particularly proud of it" - that is an approach that does you immense credit. I just wish all Admins would kick away the old 'high horse'. Pomposity is not mankind's most endearing attribute (and I should know, being about the most pompous Scot I have ever met - which is, I think, atypical of the breed).

"But as long as we're not co-ordinating a Master-Plan-for-Wiki-Domination... " - bit hard when one has never exchanged an email with a fellow Wikipedian during one's entire wikicareer (soon 5 years in my case, if you include my significant baptism at sv wiki, long before my en wiki debut). I must admit that habitual email schemers leave a bad taste in the mouth: they think that they are being so very clever, but it is all as clear as day to the observant.

I have felt increasingly isolated and picked-on of late (hence the "bullied" template at the top of my User page), and I think that I need to consult experienced hands about some things. Ironically, it seems that the better my own behaviour has become over the years (and I am a flippin angel compared with the early days!), the more I become a target for the raw wrath and hatred of others. Ho hum. --Mais oui! (talk) 17:47, 7 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Life's a bitch, eh? Well I'm sorry to hear that you're getting aggro, I know it's not fun. What I do on the odd occasion when I'm being vexed by too much arguing with eejits is to switch tack and write stuff about 19th century Private Eyes or Mongolian nose trumpets or {insert Wikipedia quiet backwater of your choice}, secure in the knowledge that likely no one else will make any change more significant than a typo fix to it. There is something soothing about writing an article from scratch, plus a sense of pride if you're still the only significant author after a few months. That restores my equanimity to the point where I can look at the same trivial arguments on the Talk:Scotland page and nod understandingly instead of gritting my teeth. -- Derek Ross | Talk 21:04, 7 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I have recently been there, done that, and bought the tee-shirt. And I wholeheartedly agree. Quiet backwaters has a lovely ring to it. Mind you, youd've thought some other soul out there might have had a sentence or two to say about Scottish golf!?! Hardly a "quiet backwater" topic in my experience. Ahhhh.... I can almost smell that salty twang down at the shore in Carnoustie... --Mais oui! (talk) 21:18, 7 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Carnoustie? The nearest I get to the smell of Carnoustie is going to the public golf course then going for a fish supper at the local chippie. Titch Tucker (talk) 21:41, 7 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Och, I'm obviously teaching my grandmother to suck eggs here! That Golf in Scotland is one impressive article. Kudos! -- Derek Ross | Talk 22:03, 7 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

<slightly off topic> Nice story about the Royal Mail, reminds me of my student days and a temporary job on the Christmas post, when a card from Poland was delivered to Fairleys, a pub on The Shore, Leith, which was, um, popular with sailors. The card was simply addressed to "Rosie, The Jungel, Edinburgh. . . dave souza, talk 17:35, 8 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

"Popular with sailors"... excellent! The Royal Mail, Canada Post, etc. sometimes get a bad press but I think that the day-to-day service is pretty good and I'm always amazed at the lengths that posties will go to in delivering the undeliverable. So I love to hear stories like yours or the one I linked to. -- Derek Ross | Talk 18:06, 8 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Inverurie

Hi again, Derek! How pronounce the letter "U" in Inverurie. This IPA (invərüəri) or this (invərüri) is near. Here "ü" is like "u" in english word "United". (Прон) 95.42.222.180 (talk) 20:37, 10 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Neither, Прон. The "U" is not pronounced like the "U" in "United". Neither is it pronounced like the "U" in "but". The "U" in "Inverurie" is pronounced like the "OO" in "poor" or the "U" in "rural", "rupee", "rhubarb", etc. The secondary stress in "Inverurie", is on the first syllable and the primary stress is on the third one. Also the initial vowel is not the same as the final one, so my guess at the pronunciation would be (ˌɪnvərˈuri) in IPA or (invarooree) in phonetic English. However the River Ury, which flows into the River Don at Inverurie, is indeed pronounced (üri), rather than (uri). -- Derek Ross | Talk 03:59, 11 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! (Прон) 95.42.222.180 (talk) 13:22, 11 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

In the River Urie how pronounce ? (Прон) 95.42.222.180 (talk) 14:24, 11 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, Прон, I don't know that I understand what you mean. How do I pronounce what ? I've already explained how to pronounce the Urie/Ury in River Urie with my last sentence. Assuming that I didn't explain clearly enough, I'll put it another couple of ways. It would be (yooree) in phonetic English and (juri) in IPA.

Еxcuse my, Derek, i all understand. I unknown the river Ury and Urie is one river. (Прон) 95.42.222.180 (talk) 15:27, 12 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, right. It is a bit confusing. -- Derek Ross | Talk 15:29, 12 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Bellshill

Hi, Derek! How pronounce the town name Bells-hill or Bell-shill. This is village or town? (Прон) 95.42.222.180 (talk) 22:35, 16 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, Прон. It's a town and its name is pronounced Bells-hill -- Derek Ross | Talk 23:51, 16 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks ! (Прон) 95.42.222.180 (talk) 06:57, 17 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Regional tartans of Canada

Hi there! I saw your name on the list of WikiProject Canada administrators so I thought I'd pick you to ask my question. Which is this:

I wrote most of Regional tartans of Canada, quite a while ago it seems, and I was just wondering now if you thought it would be worth putting up for GAN. It is rather short, but it's pretty comprehensive, for such a small subject; however, I don't want to waste a GA reviewer's time by submitting it, only to have it fail right away. So what do you think?

Thanks! Mr. Absurd (talk) 02:03, 25 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Well it looks good to me, Mr A. Nice little article. I would submit it. Thing is that I'm not a reviewer so I don't know exactly what they're looking for nowadays. If I were you I'd just submit it in the full expectation that the reviewer will find something that needs fixing. Then fix whatever they find and resubmit. The process is a bit like getting into a swimming pool. Shocking at first but you don't think about it once you're in. Good luck! -- Derek Ross | Talk 03:13, 25 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

sir walter scott

Greetings! I hope I am still talking to Derek or someone else who can help. I have a vast collection of Sir Walter Scott. Left to me like a gift in a house we bought. I am wondering if he passed in 1832 whom may have published these in 1876? I am new to all this chatting on or through the computer so may have my head up my --- and writing to no one?

KHJ (Sept 1961 - ?) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.57.252.15 (talk) 19:02, 29 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, I'm here. Greetings to you too! Walter Scott was pretty popular throughout the nineteenth and early twentieth century. And once he was out of copyright (by 1847?), anyone could publish him for next to nothing. In fact they still can. So of course lots of publishers did (and a few still do) including your 1876 publisher, whoever they were. They normally put "Printed by" plus their name somewhere on the title page.

My father was a big fan but he used to say that it took ages for Scott to get to the point, so the first few chapters tended to be heavy going. Once you're past them, the pace generally picks up and they're real page-turners. Or so he said. The only Scott book that I've read is The Antiquary -- and I enjoyed it -- but not enough to read any of the others. -- Derek Ross | Talk 19:22, 29 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Wow someone not bored to talk books! Cool, like a breeze. I asked yesterdays ? in haste. I was being lazy. When I went to list the titles I answered my ?. Thanks for your reply! I've been doing lazy reading too, for a long time now. I needed mindless entertainment in the form of paperbacks. However my brain is thirsty again for new input. These classic books were thrown in my lap, so to speak, I'll read them. We bought a home that was family owned for generations, dating back to before the gold rush. The old trommel operation still sits, now hidden by pines. The house has since been rebuilt so it is new. All the books, trophies, nik-naks, etc...... all here, like they just ran to the store. Not one generation threw anything out. Probably too tired from digging! It took a year, but I am going through and cataloging, oh it does pay to do the right thing, because this project is fullfilling a child fantasy of mine, my own treasure trove. ta ta for now KHJ —Preceding unsigned comment added by Crazymightquit (talk • contribs) 17:03, 30 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Gosh, sounds great. Lucky you, finding a house like that. I'm envious. -- Derek Ross | Talk 18:17, 30 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds like even more junk than my attic, and a much better class of junk! Might be worth reading Walter Scott for some context, and my own suggestion for a novel to start on would be Waverley as it was its anonymous publication that brought fame to "the author of Waverley" as he was known for a while, and seemed pretty readable to me. It gives an interesting insight into the '45 Jacobite rising based on eye-witness reports combined with romantic highland imagery inspired by Alasdair Ranaldson MacDonell of Glengarry, and gives a nice mention to Doune Castle. Just my tuppenceworth. . . dave souza, talk 18:30, 30 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Request

Please try to be very careful not to use my first name on Wikipedia. Thanks! -- Ssilvers (talk) 00:34, 10 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Understood. I didn't realise that it was a problem. My apologies. I won't do it again. -- Derek Ross | Talk 04:43, 10 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Kilt

Please try to assume good faith on the part of other editors. I wasn't 'sneering' and you have no idea what it is "when I do it". See the talk page and address the content, not the contributer. Thanks.--Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 12:57, 17 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for that, Pot. But I couldn't let your affectation comment go by without further comment. So please assume good faith yourself. -- Derek Ross | Talk 14:03, 17 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you!

That barnstar brought a smile to my face, thanks! I'm planning on helping improve all the Angus towns to GA level and, once that's done, getting some general Angus history articles written. Any suggestions for topics would be most welcome...

I'm improving Dundee at the moment (hopefully), as it was full of inaccuracies and POV nonsense. It's taking some time, particularly the history section, as the commonly available sources aren't great. Catfish Jim and the soapdish (talk) 10:18, 20 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

HMS Pinafore

I'm sending the article to peer review. Once finished, I'm going to nominate it for FA. -- Ssilvers (talk) 16:05, 21 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Beatles?

Are you a fan of the Beatles? 75.167.55.37 (talk) 05:33, 16 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I like a lot of their later music. Not too keen on their early stuff though. -- Derek Ross | Talk 07:17, 16 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

WP:gd

Hi Derek, are you still watching gd? I left a note for you over there. Cheers Sionnach (--94.220.244.206 (talk) 21:40, 26 May 2009 (UTC))[reply]

I am, Sionnach, but not every day. I have had quite a busy couple of weeks and I've obviously left it a bit too long. Sorry. -- Derek Ross | Talk 22:16, 26 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

No problem, RL is more important than WP - just seemed so unusual to me. I noticed, that you're back to your "normal" form again :-) Sionnach --88.77.186.85 (talk) 20:05, 28 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

H.M.S. Pinafore

I have submitted the article to FAC. Please vote here: Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/H.M.S. Pinafore/archive1 or let me know if you have any further comments. All the best. -- Ssilvers (talk) 21:25, 16 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Toronto Port Authority

Hi. I noticed that you have edited the Toronto Port Authority article in the past. The article is yet again at an impasse over a claim of NPOV content and is locked from editing. If you have the time, please read the article and make any comments on the discussion page on how to get out of this impasse. Alaney2k (talk) 23:03, 18 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

WP:gd

Hi Derek, please take a look at your talk page in WP:gd, I left a note for you over there. Cheers Sionnach --88.77.139.213 (talk) 07:05, 21 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Space Patrol

Response for you left at Talk:Space_Patrol_(1962_TV_series)#Which channels?. HairyWombat (talk) 03:36, 23 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

James Mortimer

Thanks for fixing the factual error about Mortimer and the closing date of the Figaro. I wrote the original text based directly on the given references, but refs are sometimes wrong as in this case. I also didn't use inline cites. This was another mistake, so I should go back and fix that up. Quale (talk) 22:11, 23 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

No worries. That's just Wikipedia at work. You wrote what your sources said, then I updated in the light of other sources which gave a bit more of the story. And I must admit I'm very remiss about citing things myself. I'd also note that the available sources on the history of the London Figaro are pretty contradictory. To such an extent that I'm still not sure that I have the full story on Mortimer's sale of the Figaro yet. It looks like it didn't actually happen until a couple of years after his unfortunate prison sentence, so I'm still not convinced that the two events are directly related. Cheers -- Derek Ross | Talk 01:14, 24 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Dunvegan

Hi again, Derek! How pronounce the letter "E" in Dunvegan? Like "E" in "Pet" or like "I" in "Pit". (Прон, Bulgaria) 95.42.50.107 (talk) 05:17, 27 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, Прон! Surprisingly, it doesn't sound like either. You actually pronounce it like the a in "day". It's a long vowel and the stress goes on it as well. -- Derek Ross | Talk 14:22, 27 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! AFC again play good in 2nd division. (Прон). 87.126.121.114 (talk) 08:49, 28 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Talk:Jock Stein

I've proposed that this talk page, which you semiprotected some time ago, might be unprotected to see if the problem has gone away. The article itself is not protected. --TS 22:15, 4 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I have no objection. Let's try it. -- Derek Ross | Talk 22:43, 4 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

PovWatch

I responded to your concerns at the village pump. — Jake Wartenberg 14:46, 7 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Anders Hejlsberg

On your userpage, it said that the early page history for Anders Hejlsberg, an article you created, is missing. Being an intrepid page history fixer (see my musings on the topic), I naturally took that as an invitation to try to find it; there weren't any edits from before February 2002 so I thought it would all be intact. It turns out that it was at the old title "Anders Heljsberg". I have history merged all the early edits to the main article, including what are almost definitely your first edits to the page.

As for articles that you've edited where the page history has gone missing, a serious contender for this could be Glasgow. Its earliest edit in the English Wikipedia database is from August 2002, which is a long time after the conversion to UseModWiki. However, there is significant history on the Glasgow article at the Nostalgia Wikipedia. I've tried everything, even downloading all the old deletion logs, but I can't find any trace of the old page history or any clue about where it might have gone. Graham87 16:02, 10 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Impressive detective work, Graham. Kudos! Sadly quite a bit of the 2001 history is missing because of the way that UseModWiki worked. I believe that it only backed up changes for the previous few months or something like that. No doubt you already know that though! It was perfectly adequate for running the wiki at the time but rather infuriating in hindsight when we want to see the very early history of what has unexpectedly (from a 2001 POV anyway) become one of the world's most significant websites. -- Derek Ross | Talk 18:13, 10 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thinking about the Glasgow article history on NostalgiaWP, you might try contacting Brion Vibber directly about that. It should all have been transferred when Magnus Manske did the original version of the MediaWiki software but we know that there were problems at the time. An argument could be made that it's necessary to transfer that history from NostalgiaWP to EnWP in order to comply with the GFDL. -- Derek Ross | Talk 18:33, 10 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Bug 20280 is a request to allow all English Wikipedia admins to import history from several WMF wikis, including the Nostalgia Wikipedia. I'd prefer not to import the history if it has gaps - for example in the case of Glasgow, all the history from December 2001 to August 2002 would be missing - but I suppose *some* history is better than nothing. Also progress on Bugzilla is glacial, but I'm sure the bug will be resolved eventually. I suspect the old Glasgow history was skittled as part of a page move some time in the distant past, but I have no idea if or when it occurred. It was definitely imported; AFAIK everything besides the pages listed at Wikipedia:Usemod article histories was imported from UseModWiki to the current English Wikipedia database.

I love doing this work ... it's amazing what one can find in the dark corners of Wikipedia. Graham87 11:36, 11 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

That's great, Graham. If I come across anything that I think may be of interest to you, I'll certainly pass it on. For instance This diff is a bit strange. Maybe it's hiding something. -- Derek Ross | Talk 14:52, 11 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Derek, the diff you provided isn't hiding anything - it's just a weird side effect of how revisions are stored in Wikipedia. Whenever an edit is added or imported into the Wikipedia database, it gets a new revision ID number - for example, the number 246978 that appears at the end of the URL you linked. The edit with the revision ID number of 1 was just the first edit to Wikipedia under Magnus Manske's script. Earlier edits were imported into the database in September 2002, so they have revision ID numbers over 200,000.

When a URL contains "diff=prev" or "diff=next", as it does when using the diff links in your user contributions, MediaWiki displays the edit with the previous or next revision ID, not the previous or next date. So in your example, it checks the history of Declaration of Arbroath and finds that the edit with the earlier rev ID is revision 114,859, which is a later revision chronologically but has a lower revision ID number. If you keep on clicking the "previous edit" link, you'll wind up at the edit with the lowest revision ID number in the page history. I'm not sure why its revision ID number is 1 lower than the July 2002 edit - maybe it has something to do with the changeover from Phase I to Phase II software. When you use the "last" button in the revision history to find a diff, the edits are ordered by date, not revision ID number, but the number of intermediate revisions between two edits is calculated using revision ID numbers. So you can get diffs like this one; the diff is fine but the number of intermediate revisions makes no sense at all!

There are even weirder cases. An edit can get the correct revision ID number but the wrong date because the clock was reset, so you can get diffs like those I listed here. If an edit was deleted before Wikipedia was upgraded to MediaWiki 1.5 then undeleted, it would get a new revision ID number, so you can get diffs like this bizarre example. Graham87 16:19, 11 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

So that's how it all works. -- Derek Ross | Talk 01:51, 12 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed - very entertaining/interesting reading. (It seems I'm stalking your page). Manning (talk) 02:09, 5 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Gosh, that's better than a barnstar. I don't think anyone's ever even seemed to stalk my page before! -- Derek Ross | Talk 03:06, 5 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, Manning; talk page stalking is fun. Derek, quite a few people have your user page on their watchlist, probably more than you'd realise; the Watcher tool is a lot of fun. :-) Graham87 09:31, 5 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed deletion of Stuttering

The article Stuttering has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

There is a clear bias in many parts of this article.

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{dated prod}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{dated prod}} will stop the Proposed Deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. The Speedy Deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and Articles for Deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. — Jeff G. (talk|contribs) 16:02, 15 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Clara Dow

LOL! Thanks for cleaning up the century errors. -- Ssilvers (talk) 22:11, 18 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

My pleasure, <grin>. I only wish that she really had still been appearing onstage today. By the way, I read through Richard D'Oyly Carte and enjoyed it thoroughly. I don't actually know enough about him to contribute to the article but on the positive side that meant I learnt a lot from the it. It certainly looks like a GA to me.-- Derek Ross | Talk 05:30, 19 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

anthems and noise

Well said ...--Snowded ^TALK 08:43, 23 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, Derek. Kudos to you for all the good work you have done over the years on the Scotland article and others (certainly more than I have done). I can understand why you no longer wish to take part in arguments over political points being made in infoboxes, leads, etc. I will say this though, without anyone arguing against those who wish to force their political views on the article goodness knows what it would look like. Cheers. Jack forbes (talk) 09:02, 23 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, gents. -- Derek Ross | Talk 23:45, 23 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Jeepers Derek, you're no fun atall. GoodDay (talk) 19:58, 23 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It's the way I tell 'em, ~~<grin>~~<scowl> -- Derek Ross | Talk 23:45, 23 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

		Ofishul Anthem Award
		Thanks for all the fish, Derek, and for working to dispel the yapping terriers of ignorance! Remember to have fun! dave souza, talk 22:35, 23 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Looks like good sense on a vexed question, as ever. "None" in the antheminfobox seems inapposite, "too many" might be more accurate. Perhaps "context sensitive" is more informative, but rather than adding a drive by quip to the article talk page, will add it to the almost infinite number of issues on which I fail to comment. By the way, for the rapidly approaching Darwinfest on 24 November, WP:DYK should briefly feature John Brodie-Innes, a close friend of Chas. who continued to correspond after taking up a Chieftainship in Scotland. Writing invitingly, "If any of you venture towards the North Pole, we hope you will remember that we are five miles from Forres, and we are not in perpetual snow."[2] A predecessor of the Scottish Tourist Board! . . dave souza, talk 22:35, 23 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

That's why I don't much like infoboxes, Dave. They don't fit special cases like this well. Anyway I totally agree with your attitude towards commenting. When I don't have anything new to add I try not to add it. Unfortunately I don't always succeed! I didn't know about Darwinfest, so thanks for bringing it to my attention. I'll check out the J B-I article. -- Derek Ross | Talk 23:45, 23 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Can it be that we have no article on Darwinfest ? The horror! It's like not having an article on Christmas! Think of the children! How could this state of affairs arise? Now, how will I find out what it actually is ? Oh, well. Back to trusty old Google I suppose. -- Derek Ross | Talk 00:00, 24 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps Darwinfest is an exaggeration, Darwin Day is in February. but there are some celebrations here and there, as the featured article of the day indicates. Chipped in DYKs on the Great Hippocampus Question and Thunder-and-Lightning Harris myself, but had almost nothing to do with the B-I article. All good fun, dave souza, talk 00:04, 24 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

We probably should have an article though. The event has been global even if its visibility seems to have been restricted to academic institutions, so it probably meets WP's notability guidelines. -- Derek Ross | Talk 00:11, 24 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Importing from Nostalgia Wikipedia enabled!

Hi Derek,

It's now possible to import from the Nostalgia Wikipedia and Meta to the English Wikipedia database. I've just imported the early edits of Dundee, which you created but the history got skittled at some point. See this diff; the revision on the left was just imported and hence has a ridiculously high page ID number. This is great news! Graham87 03:39, 13 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Also see Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)#Import sources enabled on the English Wikipedia. Graham87 03:40, 13 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

And Wikipedia:Requests for page importation. Graham87 06:27, 13 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Gosh. I don't even remember creating it. Good to see this old history restored after all this time though! -- Derek Ross | Talk 07:49, 13 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Just checked your history, Derek. 2001? And your still here? What's your secret my friend? Jack forbes (talk) 21:05, 14 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

My secret ? Well there isn't really anything special. I keep my head down. I concentrate on the encyclopedia, not the community. I have a very wide range of interests, so I can always find a subject which is notable yet of no interest to the vexatious editors among us (or anyone else but me probably), eg Paddington Pollaky, Glee (music), Dartmouth BASIC, Steam aircraft, and many of my other contributions. I don't "own" any articles and yet I have a real sense of achievement from my WP work because there are quite a few articles, good and bad, of which I am for all intents and purposes the sole author and many more for which I am the major contributor or creator. And lastly I'm not a perfectionist. I suppose that these are the reasons why I haven't "burnt out" or been targeted as an evil member of the "cabal" like so many oldtimers. -- Derek Ross | Talk 23:36, 14 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I sometimes think I should forget the Scotland article debates and actually contribute to some other subjects I have an interest in. As`a proud Scot I can't help myself occasionally putting my tuppence worth in but, it doesn't do my blood pressure any good. I shall seriously consider your reply to me as it seems to be the sensible way to remain on wiki without losing your marbles. Thanks, Derek. Jack forbes (talk) 23:48, 14 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Hello Derek

I wonder if you have ever heard of the Mc Crone report written weeks before the 74 election. It was a report commissioned by the Conservative Government of the time looking into the viability of an Independent Scotland and then handed over to the incoming Labour administration. It was until fairly recently a secret government document. Quite a few surprising facts (for some) came out of the report, in particular the government published figures on how much oil revenue would come from the Scottish field and how long it would last. Here is the link to the report. [3]. I'm thinking this may be of enough importance to merit a mention in the main Scotland article or perhaps an article of its own. I thought I would run it by you first to see if your thoughts coincide with my own. Cheers. Jack forbes (talk) 19:47, 27 December 2009 (UTC) PS, I'll give you the main page.[4] Jack forbes (talk) 20:10, 27 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Well they do and they don't, Jack. It's an interesting document and certainly worth mentioning on Wikipedia. However I think that it would be better placed in the Scottish independence article than in the Scotland article. There are three reasons which lead me to think this. Firstly I think that placing it in the Scottish independence article would be much less contentious since its relevance to the topic is much more obvious. Secondly I think that is too detailed a point for the Scotland article since that article is an overview article with more than a thousand years of history to cover. We must always guard against "recentism". Just because we know a lot about the last 100 years, we can end up discussing it in too much detail compared to the previous 900. Thirdly the "Wikipedia way" is to work from secondary sources and this document is a primary source, so we shouldn't directly include it in an article. What we should do is to find a source which discusses the significance of the document and places it in context. Then we can use that as evidence of notability and as a reference in case there is any argument over the document. And you know that there will be...

So to sum up, I think that you should add mention of the document to the Scottish independence article. Up to you though. -- Derek Ross | Talk 20:38, 27 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, Derek. I'll have a look around for those secondary sources and see what I can come up with. I'm guessing I may have some trouble with that as I don't believe that many of the national newspapers would have covered it in any detail (if at all), mostly (in my opinion) due to their political leanings. I can but try though. Thanks again. Jack forbes (talk) 20:43, 27 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Good man! By the way I should have said: Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to you. 2009 was a pretty tough year for many of us. Here's hoping that 2010 turns out better for all of us! -- Derek Ross | Talk 06:41, 28 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

And a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you Derek. Jack forbes (talk) 13:39, 28 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]