User talk:DankJae/Archives/2024/April

Prince of Wales, King of England.

I understand there is no source for my including regarding the Prince of Wales. But I feel there should be a better inclusion about the continuation of the title Prince of Wales and the use as title for the heir apparent of the King of England. So, I don't have sources, any ideas as to how to fully elaborate the text ? Cltjames (talk) 00:02, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

@Cltjames Is it really needed there? As the article doesn’t really mention it. I reduced it to have “English and British monarchs” there were also Queens of England. Doesn’t make sense to say “today” and “King of England” and I had no idea why you mentioned the empire and Commonwealth? DankJae 00:06, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

Ok, well... Today, we learn there is a continuation. And this brings me back to what I've mentioned before, the list ends as 1500. But there is a technicality to say Wales has rulers today in the shape of a first minister. But, this is an issue for another day, TTYL. Cltjames (talk) 00:26, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

As stated then, those are leaders not “rulers” the current list should limit to medieval rulers as they’re more suitable for the term. If really needed, open to a short paragraph in a “post-medieval”/modern section but that information should already be present in a bigger article that readers can be directed to? DankJae 07:41, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

While writing that last comment to the IP...

I saw this: [1]. I expect the same is true in other languages. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 13:18, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

@Sirfurboy? What are you referring to? That was done months ago if referring to TG, I raised a discussion at WP:WALES on it? The IP is demoting Eryri not promoting it? DankJae 13:20, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

Yes, I knew it was months ago. Didn't realise that was one you had noticed. I was just letting you know. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 13:22, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

@Sirfurboy, I think I counted 32 Wikipedias. DankJae 13:33, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

Certainly does not bode well for any appeal to his topic ban. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 13:36, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

Also I suggest you self revert your last revert of the IP. You are over 3RR. If you self revert, it should be fine. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 13:21, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

@Sirfurboy, its not the same edit? They removed Eryri. DankJae 13:22, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

No more than 3 reverts on one page regardless of what. The rule is stupid, but still suggest you self revert. Don't want you copping a short collateral ban when the IP gets reported. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 13:23, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

Ah right. DankJae 13:24, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

@Sirfurboy, self-reverted the last one. I do struggle understanding 3RR process, and had no choice but to let vandals win many times. DankJae 13:27, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

I know. Bright line rules are fraught with dangers. But now I have reverted out the IPs change and left them very clear warnings. If they revert again, we can safely report at the edit warring noticeboard. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 13:31, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

Soccer/Football in Aberdare article.

Hi DankJae,

Apologies the discussion was in my edit notes rather than the talk page, the change was made because the whole sports section discusses three separate football codes of which "soccer" or "association football" is one. Within many of the sources in this section (especially historic newspaper articles) terms like "football match" and "football rules" often refer to Rugby League and (more rarely) Rugby Union.

In terms of "British English" I'm sorry but that's not right, Soccer is a British English term and is defined as such on Wiktionary. As for popular understanding, all British English speakers understand the term Soccer refers to Association football while "Football" has the ambiguities I have outlined. Cymrogogoch (talk) 21:19, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

@Cymrogogoch, in common usage "football" is to mean Association football in British English, and most other articles including Football in Wales, Sport in Cardiff#Football, Newport, Wales, Wrexham, Chester, Football in London, etc. "Football" is clearly referring to Association Football, but if needed then just add "association"? I don't see a reason why Aberdare is special from the rest of Wales?

If there is confusion between sources, then the article should specify which type of football, for example add "(Rugby) football" in text, but not introduce terms more commonly found in American English to an article written in British English. Yes "Soccer" is from Britain, but not commonly used in Britain. Most people from Aberdare won't say "soccer". DankJae 22:15, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for moving this.

"I don't see a reason why Aberdare is special from the rest of Wales?"

The nomenclature is unique to the town, as shown in the continued use of Aberdare RUFC (instead of Aberdare RFC) more than a century after Aberdare RLFC folded (I believe this is unique for a Welsh rugby). All three football codes discuss in the sports section have been prevalent at one time or another in the town, and having top-flight professional Rugby League and Association Football clubs (as well as being the first home ground to Wales Rugby League) compounded the terminology issues in the formative years of both sports.

"Yes "Soccer" is from Britain, but not commonly used in Britain."

I think we've now moved from an argument for British English to common usage. Obviously, UK sporting discourse is dominated by Association Football, and there is real linguistic currency in simply calling the favoured code "football" but I think using a word which also refers to two other prominent codes when we have a perfectly good unique term is just silly. People seem to get upset about this, think it's an Americanism or some form of slight when it's really just about clarity of text.

I would argue your point that "Most people from Aberdare won't say "soccer", I think areas which are not wholly dominated by one code do tend to use "soccer" more than the UK as a whole. I am from Aberdare and must admit that I tend to switch between "soccer" and "football" interchangeably. That said, I do not think colloquial speech is relevant to an argument for "common British-English usage".

I'd be happy with Association Football or Soccer, just needs something to distinguish it as a singular code of football. Cymrogogoch (talk) 20:36, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

@Cymrogogoch, fully understand the argument why "football" may lack clarity in historical contexts. But if we need to specify then "Association football" is much more recognisable to the audience interested in Aberdare. May that be used over "soccer"? DankJae 21:13, 21 April 2024 (UTC)