User:Valfontis/Archive 8

This is an archive of past discussions with User:Valfontis. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current main page.

Archive 5

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Help Request

Please overrule PeteForsyth on this edit.

Joshua Marquis

Removed link: Opposing Discussion http://driedsalmon.proboards54.com/index.cgi?board=discussion2

Posted Reason: Unreliable source

Dispute: It is exactly what it says, a source of opposing discussion, alternatively it could be called opposing opinion. The fact that it is called "Opposing" indicates it is not likely to be in agreement with the subject, hence should transcend the bounds of "unreliable source." Users should not be prevented from seeing this source.

You could alternatively call it a debate forum since the subject DA is equally welcome to post as a registered user, anonymous user, or both. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.139.213.230 (talk) 23:09, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

I will check this out, however, a) I am very likely to agree with Pete, and b) I am unlikely to entertain such a request from an anonymous editor who can't follow my talk page directions... Katr67 (talk) 23:15, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

Omigod. A message board?! That is indeed not a reliable source. Please read up on Wikipedia policy by clicking on the blue links provided in our messages to you. FYI, I have no opinion one way or the other about the subject in question, I'm only interested in upholding Wikipedia policy and guidelines and I know Pete is too. Katr67 (talk) 23:22, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

Then please raise this as a complaint to your superiors until it reaches someone who finds common sense of more use than Wikipedia policy and guidelines. There is no sensible reason to exclude a link to a forum of opposing opinions. Wikipedia will never achieve the credibility of Brittanica by hiding useful information and diminishing interactivity. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.139.213.230 (talk) 04:24, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

Try this: Wikipedia:Dispute resolution. Good luck, you'll need it. Katr67 (talk) 04:29, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

Hey IP, could you let me know when Brittanica posts your link, thanks. I'll be waiting with my snowshoes in hell. Aboutmovies (talk) 04:46, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

Heh, did you raise the complaint to your superiors? Who would that even be? Jimmy Wales? WNW3 (talk) 01:44, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

clarification

Hi Katr67! Thank you for your help on the article Associated Students of the University of Oregon! I am trying to start the article on the University of Oregon's student government so that other contributors can expand on the topic. I am wondering, however, why the sources and external links have been questioned. I provided several links from the official website of the asuo and media articles. What other links would be needed?

Thank you, EMUBoard (talk) 04:19, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

No no, read the policy in the links provided in the template. There are far too many external links, in other words, a linkfarm. Links should be used as citations but there shouldn't be so many links to the same website. Do watch the COI also. Happy editing. Katr67 (talk) 04:30, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Barnstar

No way! How nice ... I think I feel like I'm going to keep doing some more then :D Thank you very much! Bobjgalindo (talk) 21:11, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Yes, I do have quite a few photos that might work. Hopefully the list gets a tad smaller. I should've done it a while ago. But it's happening and that's what counts. Thanks for keeping an eye on things. (No, I hadn't seen the categories: I'll consult them frequently). Bobjgalindo (talk) 21:33, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Nomination of epipe and ace duraflo

Can you help clarify what about the two articles "epipe" and "ace duraflo" needs to be addressed in order to make it wiki friendly. I'm new to this and could use some feedback. Jdiemert (talk) 21:58, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

A contest you may be interested in

Hello, Katr67. There is a new contest for U.S. and Canada roads that you may be interested in. To sign up or for more information, please visit User:Rschen7754/USRDCRWPCup. The contest begins Saturday at 00:00 UTC. Regards, Rschen7754 (T C) 01:32, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Six Degrees (LJmajer)

Hi Katr. Thanks for the note on my page. I'll chalk up the six degrees thing to Eugene being a small town! You cranky? Never with me. You were actually the one who got me started and enjoying work on Wiki. I've moved over a lot of articles more centered around my interests, but still check in with the Wiki:Oregon group now and then. Say hi to "the little bird" next time you see her. -- Ljmajer (talk) 06:31, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Happy New COTW

Greetings from WikiProject Oregon’s Collaboration of the Week. First off, thank you to everyone who has done work the last few weeks on the last two COTWs. This week we have by request Oregon and California Railroad, part of the lands involved in the Oregon Land Fraud Scandal. Then as part of the Stub elimination drive, we have longtime politician Grattan Kerans, which hopefully can be turned into a nice DYK entry. As always, click here to opt out of these messages, or click here to make a suggestion for a future COTW. Aboutmovies (talk) 10:22, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

About Les Schwab Amphitheater, January 14, 2009

Thank you and sorry about that!! Manafan5 (talk) 23:45, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Why was my edit deleted, twice?

I provided an edit to the Entertainment section of Portland, Oregon to include myself as a new resident. Twice it has been deleted. Is there certain criteria I must meet to be able to establish myself as a working Artist, Musician, Producer, Engineer and Photographer? Or am I just doing something wrong? Countrokula (talk) 02:58, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

I'm not Katr, but I can chime in--I've left a reply on your talk page. --Finngall ^talk 03:56, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Yep, I can't say it any better than Finngall except to mention that I'm very very very wary of folks who try to use Wikipedia for self-promotion. With that caveat, I always encourage folks to seek out other opinions. Finngall is very fairminded and has quite a bit of experience with articles about bands and musicians, so I'd say his second opinion is a good one. Good luck and welcome to Oregon! Katr67 (talk) 18:15, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Rooster Rock

I think you might be overlooking the point as regards this feature. Maybe "cock rock" is what the Indians called it, but the user wouldn't provide a citation. Regardless, "rooster" was substituted in order to make the name G-rated. It was named for the male organ, not for the chicken. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 01:57, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

The user is a newbie. The whole article is uncited, so why would s/he think s/he had to cite his/her contribution? Anyways, I quickly found some citations. Good day. Katr67 (talk) 02:10, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

Good point. I don't get the "rhyming slang" part, though. It's not rhyming slang, it's a homonym - "cock" meaning two different things. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 02:53, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

Ah, yes, I see what you mean. I believe Mr. McArthur was being delicate, but leaving the reader enough clues to infer what the word in question might be. The exact quote is: "The modern name is of phallic significance originating from rhyming slang." In other words, not rhyming slang, but slang that rhymes. I'll reword it a bit. Maybe we should write the McArthurs (now the original McArthur's son and granddaughter) about the inaccuracy before the 8th edition goes to press... Katr67 (talk) 04:18, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

Well, wikipedia is not censored, so we could just lay it on the line. Tomorrow, maybe. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 04:45, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

Or today. Your revision looks good. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 04:52, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

Thank You...

...for reverting the lies on my editor review page:[1]. User:Markosjal said some nonsense comments about my revert to Rooster Rock. My faith was never a factor. The reason for the revert--which was made through Huggle--was what appeared to be vandalism. Thanks, Willking1979 (talk) 02:18, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

You're welcome. I don't know about "lies" though. You might want to explain what you just explained to me to the user in question. I think this new user is just a bit grumpy for having been reverted. (see also the above thread.) Everyone would do well to AGF, ya know, innocent until proven guilty and all that. I looked at your user page, and it would be easy for a newbie to assume, seeing the "comment on my edits" link to your editor review, that this is where s/he needed to complain about how s/he's been treated thus far. Good day. Katr67 (talk) 02:24, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

Just posted a note to the newbie's talk page about the matter. Thanks for all you do on Wikipedia. Willking1979 (talk) 02:44, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

Poter99

Is it possible/wise to checkuser on him, then block his IP from new account creation for some period of time? Or has that been done already? tedder (talk) 01:02, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Yes, I think we can reopen the old checkuser case on him. But I believe he's using a dynamic IP so we can't block for long. Maybe contact the folks who did the last checkuser. I don't have time to look for it right now. But I wish everyone would stop rising to the bait and just ignore him. Occasionally I give some advice about how to proceed, as if he isn't a troll, but arguing with him is pointless and a waste of all our time. Katr67 (talk) 01:07, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Yep, I learned to RBI :-) That's why I'm posting here. Thanks. tedder (talk) 01:09, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

My ears are burning. OK, it's in the "endless loop" phase of trolling at this point, so if he posts again I'll try and leave it be. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 01:23, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

"They disagree with me and are trying to get me banned." [2] Curious words from a guy who hasn't even expressed an opinion that could be disagreed with. Ding-ding-ding! Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 12:00, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

He continues to remove the "suspected sockpuppet" banner from his user page. Should we care? Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 00:46, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Nah. Katr67 (talk) 00:51, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

One thing we know about him now is that he lives in the Northwest (which was obvious) and I assume he's not among the homeless, since he eats and probably works at Red Robin. Unless he also lives there. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 01:03, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Here's the old checkuser case. I'd spend as little energy as possible on him. Yes that means you Bugs. But if this sock acts up again, I'd simply approach the folks who worked on the case and let them quietly block the sock. Katr67 (talk) 18:23, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

It's now back on my watch list. As long as the Square page remains protected, he's mostly harmless. And if someone "new" pops in with the same question, I think it is appropriate to ask the same question back. And if they won't answer, they're toast. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 19:43, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

I wouldn't even bother. It's pretty obvious when they pop up that it's the same person. It's possible we may need to take this to Wikipedia:Long term abuse (someone should ask on the talk page about this before adding the case to the list). In the meantime, I would just calmly explain how s/he can contribute and if they don't answer, then we ignore them and if they continue to troll, we checkuser and block them. And that's it. No back and forth, no anger, no lengthy explanations, no good faith, no bad faith, no nothing. Seriously this is the last post I'm making regarding the subject. Whatever personality disorder this person has, they are feeding off any attention we give the matter. I'm done discussing it. No more posts here about it, if you please. Thanks! Katr67 (talk) 20:25, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Corvallis, Oregon

I received a message from you, I think, after attempting to edit out a misleading and inaccurate recent edit on the entry for Corvallis, Oregon. I had not done anything substantive on the edit, just entered a description, but when I returned I had the new message.

Please let me know what one does when he finds a new paragraph in an article which is not only inaccurate, but is unsupported by the (outdated) reference. In the meantime, I think the paragraph labeled "Religion" in the Corvallis, Oregon entry should be deleted in its entirety.

Thanks, and apologies in advance if this is the wrong place to raise this concern.

John L. Barlow (talk) 20:06, 27 January 2009 (UTC)John Barlow

I'm not sure what you're talking about in regards to "a misleading and inaccurate recent edit". According to the page history, you added a section on Team Corvallis, a section on Craig Robinson, and an external link to Team Corvallis, then subsequently edited the paragraph you added. I don't see any edits where you changed something previously written by someone else, but if I'm missing something, please link to the page diff.

No, the reason I sent you a message about conflict of interest, is (having some experience in these matters) that it appears you may in some way be connected to Team Corvallis. You haven't done anything wrong, but I did want to make you aware that Wikipedia is not for promoting causes or businesses, no matter who or what is being promoted or how good a cause it may be. I apologize if you're not actually connected with Team Covallis, but several things about your edits set off my "spammer" alarms, including the addition of the Team Corvallis link to the external links section. However, seeing that your addition had some merit, I cleaned up your edits instead of deleting them outright.

As far as the "Religion" section, that kind of concern should be posted on the article's talk page, as I don't own the article and that sort of decision, that is, one that is not a cut-and-dried case of policy or guideline violation, should be made by consensus of several editors. I hope this explains. P.S. No need to type out your name when you sign a post--the "~~~~" will take care of that for you! Katr67 (talk) 20:54, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for your prompt response. And thanks for cleaning up my edits so that they conform.

I was looking at the Corvallis page and started to edit that religious section when your message popped up. So it was coincidence--I attributed your message to be in response to what I was doing at that moment. I appreciate the clarification.

John L. Barlow (talk) 22:37, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Ah, I understand now. Actually, no one can "see" what page you are editing until you hit the "Save page" button, that is why I had no idea to what you were referring. Apparently you encountered what is called an "edit conflict" while I was in the middle of a major revamp of the page. Just a hint though, if you had planned to remove the Religion section without explanation, your edit would likely have been reverted. (Personally I think there is nothing wrong with a mention of Oregon, and Benton County in particular, as being very "unchurched"--I hear references to this fact in the media all the time.) It's always a good idea to use edit summaries. You should use them all the time, but especially when making a potentially controversial edit like blanking a section, since this can be seen as vandalism. I hope this helps. Katr67 (talk) 22:50, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Ref links on talk pages

I saw on User talk:Enigmaman#Copyediting you were looking for a guideline that said using reference-style references on talk pages was verboten. While I've never seen such a guideline, there is an obvious practical problem with using them: Unless the group parameter is used, all the references from all the various comments will be bundled together and put in the references section. Most talk pages don't have a references section.

The most practical way to do URL references in a talk or other discussion page is to use see here [http://blah.blah] or see [http://blah.blah here] syntax. If you are going to use the reference-style references, such as with a book, use a unique group, and put a reflist at the bottom of the section containing your comment. View the source to this example to see it in action.^{[rlotp 1]}

^ Last, First, Some Book, Publishing Company. City of publication. 1985.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by Davidwr (talk • contribs) 03:50, January 29, 2009

Actually, I know we don't have references on talk pages, but sometimes people use them as examples. I rarely use them, I just don't get why he was refactoring other people's old posts to remove them. I mean, he was flat out removing the refs and saying we could look in the page history, as far as I can tell. That seems pretty inconvenient. It's just a talk page. It doesn't have to be pretty. I don't see anything wrong with reformatting them in some way, I often put <nowiki></nowiki> tags around them or else just convert them to bare links. Sometimes they just have a {{reflist}} at the bottom of a section. Of course, if there is more than one post with refs, then obviously that can cause problems if not every section has its own reflist. But anyway, thanks for all the suggestions. Sorry if I sound snippy, but I've been around the wiki awhile, I guess I'm feeling a little templated. Cheers. Katr67 (talk) 04:14, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, I'm much better at responding to new people than experienced editors, unless I know they are experienced. By and large most people asking for help are relatively new. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 05:04, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Again, sorry to sound snippy, but I wasn't asking for help, I was just asking for a link to the guideline. And besides the banners on my userpage that say I have 3 years and 40,000 edits...<shrug>...dunno how to show that I'm experienced. Anyway Enigmaman suddenly took a long wikibreak after I challenged him on some questionable actions, so it's likely he was just having a bad day. Thanks for taking time to look after the newbies. Katr67 (talk) 15:41, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Here's the diff and edit summary I was asking about, FYI. Katr67 (talk) 15:55, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Museums & Prisons COTW

Howdy to all those in WikiProject Oregon land! To start, thanks to those who helped improve Grattan Kerans and Oregon and California Railroad as part of the Collaboration of the Week. This week we’ll try and start some new articles with a red link elimination drive on a couple of Oregon lists. So, you have your pick of prisons, or museums. As always, click here to opt out of these messages, or click here to make a suggestion for a future COTW. Aboutmovies (talk) 08:49, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

PCH

I have stopped watching the page, as my efforts in defending it, and in letting the user know he's fooling no one, appear to be of no value to anyone else. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 22:25, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

In light of some supportive comments, I'll just add that things should be OK as long as the page stays protected. I've taken the page off my watch list for the time being, just to reign in my annoyance with that character. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 04:08, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

No hay problema. We both love Oregon. That outweighs any petty differences. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 05:18, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

Removal of shopping mall link

I added an external link on: Clackamas Town Center to: www.tripcart.com/usa-regions/Oregon-Cascades-Willamette-Valley/shopping-malls/Clackamas-Town-Center.html

I feel in general the shopping mall pages contain only the information provided by the mall and the real estate developers themselves. As the most popular entertainment and dining destination category I think a few external links to objective sites with independent reviews and write-ups are in order. I think the best 2 websites for this are - www.yelp.com and www.tripcart.com. Sometimes, www.fodors.com or other travel guide sites have good information. In this case, since I know the mall, I thought the TripCart page was most relevant.

I was going to repeat on other pages providing external links, where I can find good ones. How do you suggest I do this, and do you consider this a positive addition to Wikipedia. Thanks

207.232.5.116 (talk) 09:13, 4 February 2009 (UTC)Joe Greenblum

Please discuss the addition of the tripcart link here: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Spam#tripcart.com. It appears you may have a conflict of interest regarding that website. Also, if you haven't clicked on the bluelinks on the message on your user page, please read about the spamming of external links. Adding the links that you propose may be construed as spamming. If information in an article is not neutral and is advertising, then that needs to be corrected--adding external links that offer an alternative opinion are not the solution, and yelp and fodors may or may not be suitable external links. If you are interested in contributing to Wikipedia, we prefer you add content, not links. Cheers. Katr67 (talk) 17:10, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Ghost town recommendation?

Hi Katr67, I was thinking about going to find a ghost town in the valley on Friday. Any suggestions? It looks like you've been to more than a few of them. I'm in Eugene so I was thinking about trying on of the following: Butteville, Oregon; Ellendale, Oregon; Kernville, Oregon; Ortley, Oregon or Zena, Oregon. I'm poking around ghosttowns.com but would appreciate the opinion of an Oregon expert. Thank you :) WNW3 (talk) 02:05, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

ghostowns.com is...well, I don't think it's a very good site. But what a fun quest for a Friday! As far as recommendations, I've only been to the towns within biking distance. Zena isn't exactly a ghost town (in terms of the classic, deserted building thing), but it used to have a store and things like that and now there is just the church. But the church and graveyard is a lovely place to stop and have a picnic--nice views. Up the hill is the old Spring Valley School. Also look for this place. There is not a "there there" with Ellendale, either. I tried to figure out something to take a picture of there, but the original townsite appears to just be trees and brush...I did meet an interesting old gentleman there who knew a lot of the local history. I haven't actually been to Butteville yet, so that might be worth checking out (again, not classically a ghost town). I think Kernville sounds the most interesting. I don't know anything about Ortley. If you head to Zena, read up on Lincoln, Oregon--it used to be the biggest grain port on the lower Willamette, and now there is not much there but a convenience store and a few houses. I recommend the book Willamette Landings. If I think of anything else near Eugene, I'll let you know. I need a cup of coffee now... Katr67 (talk) 13:51, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Thanks Katr67, due to weather we ended up going to Mission Mill Museum and A. C. Gilbert's Discovery Village instead, both were very very good. WNW3 (talk) 01:55, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

Post offices

Thanks for the note — why don't you just modify the list yourself? I know that reliable sources are good enough, but I'd rather see it being done by someone to whom these places are more than dots on a map. Nyttend (talk) 02:44, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Chickenhead

It's like a weird Oregon State Fairgrounds barnstar. ;) Thanks Kat. You coming to RecentChangesCamp on the 20-22? Steven Walling (talk) 05:06, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

(Psst. Don't call me Kat--"K" or Katr (pronounced "Cater") is just fine though.) :) Sorry I was too lazy to make it into a real barnstar. But I'm sure you deserve one for something. There's some folks here in Salem working to legalize urban chickens, by the way. Nope, can't make it to RCC, I'm on the planning team for the UU Northwest district annual general meeting and it's the same weekend. I'll probably be scurrying around solving problems. I'm also hoping to catch a workshop on bringing one's congregation into the Blogosphere though. Maybe next time! Cheers! Katr67 (talk) 05:24, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

To show you how far gone I am, your user ID continually reminds me of one of the field names in one of the tables in the SAP database. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 19:31, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

Poter99 sock

Please note that he has not actually been blocked yet. I'm assuming an admin will take care of that in due course. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 07:17, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

Which Ckatz did. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 19:29, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

List of high schools in Oregon

Not a problem. I was going through and re-making high school lists for one of my jobs (also caused by a computer snafu), and I usually go through and add schools not on the page (since I need to document the counties as well, I use the Wiki list pages as reference). While I really don't have any affiliations to Oregon (outside of not seeing much logic in the whole WA-OR border war), if you want helps getting rid of the red links let me know which schools you want help with and what you want on the page and I'll be happy to give that a whirl! Mtndrums (talk) 18:10, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

B-day for Oregon

Hello to WikiProject Oregon peoples! Thank you to those who helped start some new articles on prisons and museums. This week, in honor of Oregon’s 150th b-day, we have the slightly older Oregon Constitution and the first state governor John Whiteaker. As always, click here to opt out of these messages, or click here to make a suggestion for a future COTW. Aboutmovies (talk) 01:10, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Vandalism

Thanks for reverting the vandalism...I'm surprised that I'd get vandalism from an IP that I've never seen before...wonder where the IP found my userpage...it's hard to believe that I've now had the page vandalised 42 times!!! Nyttend (talk) 00:10, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

re: semi protectection

The indefinite semi-protect might be a bit excessive, yes. Someone, apparently, is keeping a close eye, as the ticket was made within a day of the vandalism being added and reverted. Now that I think about it - I apologize, I'm still getting the hang of OTRS - maybe a "vandalism happens" reply would've sufficed, but I wanted to avoid any potential escalation. On the other hand - and maybe I'm equivocating on the matter, I don't know - it'll be a lot harder for COIs to make it read like a fluff piece. Xavexgoem (talk) 04:50, 20 February 2009 (UTC) I used to say no to flagged revisions, but after a day of being on the quality queue, I can really see its use for BLPs

A maze of twisty passages...

Hi, sorry for the dab change, there. I think I was looking at an earlier rev of the page.--NapoliRoma (talk) 20:50, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

No worries. It took me a while to untangle the mess. Katr67 (talk) 20:52, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

vandalism

Hi Kat. I don't really appreciate you vandalizing my sandbox, so please don't do it again because my sandbox is my sandbox (not yours). F.Y.I. a sandbox is a place where you can experiment and try stuff out so you can hopefully someday get better at Wiki editing. Tommak95 (talk) 22:34, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Valfontis. You have new messages at Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Pioneercourthouse.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Additional information needed Mayalld (talk) 07:40, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Sorry - I'm removing my own previous edit because I saw your comment on Tedder's talk page and realised that you might not want to waste more time on somebody who may or may not be our pal. Move along, nothing to see here :-) --Bonadea (talk) 12:24, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Conflict of Interest / Vandalism on Rickey Lime, Kyle Justin, Scarling., Skeleteen, & more

Hello Katr67,

I am messaging you because I noticed you flagged User:RickeyGoodling as a possible COI for editing articles related to herself, her band, and former bandmates articles.

They have made exactly the same edits on both the Kyle Justin and the Skeleteen wikis, all of which have been reverted and/or dealt with by a moderator. I believe it's obviously the same bandmember (not Rickey, but Jessicka) under the following IP addresses making these edits, User:69.239.112.1, User:69.230.175.21, User:69.230.163.107, User:69.238.51.117. On the Rickey Lime page it says her aliases are Anna Goodling and Rickey Goodling.

This user and these IP addresses edit anything / everything related to Jessicka and Scarling, including former bandmembers pages, which is why I believe it is her, but it takes a bit of research into the history of their edits to see what I am speaking of.

I started several articles including the Kyle Justin article so I have been watching their edits from the beginning.

If you could help me with the most recent edits on Kyle Justin and Skeleteen, I do feel that many or most of them are unnecessary edits or vandalism. Reasons given for removing things don't seem to follow any guidelines and many edit any reasons. For instance, the user removed the independent record label Sympathy for the Record Industry from the list of labels on the Kyle Justin wiki, citing that Scarling (Kyle Justin's previous band) was on that label, not him. The other labels listed are for both current and previous projects, as goes on most musicians pages I've viewed within the WikiMedia projet. Another instance, is the repeated removal of information (the same information previously removed by the IP addresses mentioned), citing it as redudant or already mentioned, but in discussion with many moderators I've found that repeating information in both the introductions and the body of the article is promoted on Wikipedia to ensure the accuracy of the article and information within. Another instance is removing detailed information on the Skeleteen article, reasoning that the article is about Skeleteen not Scarling, yet the information explains exactly within that same sentence who were the main notable acts who performed on the Curiosa tour.

I do not want to touch the articles at the moment, as to not continue an edit war, and want to continue to do the right thing by bringing in moderators for their help and input.

I do hope to get some help with this as it is repeatedly occuring.

Thanks so much ahead of time.

Regards, M.W.

Mark William 22:04, 26 February 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Godblessyrblackheart (talk • contribs)

Hi, first, when I issue a COI warning, it doesn't necessarily mean the editor has done anything wrong. Second, I don't have time to study the situation extensively, but these look like good faith edits. I'm not sure why you think the edits are vandalism. Vandalism is writing the word "poop" in random places and blanking entire sections without explanation. This editor seems to be using a reasonable amount of edit summaries to explain the edits. I haven't looked closely at her edit history, but although these edits may be original research, COI, and uncited, I doubt they are vandalism. Have you tried talking to her on her talk page? Katr67 (talk) 22:46, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

P.S. The user might have a COI, but it looks like you need to read WP:OWN. Thanks. Katr67 (talk) 22:51, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

I don't feel like you really read my message or any of the things I pointed out, nor any of the history behind it. But, thanks... I guess? I'll talk to somebody who has more time / cares.Mark William 00:35, 27 February 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Godblessyrblackheart (talk • contribs) 00:35, February 27, 2009

P.S. It's not fair to assume I'm being possessive of the article simply because I created it. I watch it but welcome edits. Some of them were fine. Others were not. This person, as I said, has repeatedly edited it in unnecessary ways. I'm following the Wiki rules. And, about communicating with them, you can only try to communicate so much with certain people. Especially when they've changed aliases (and made the same edits).Mark William 00:35, 27 February 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Godblessyrblackheart (talk • contribs) 00:35, February 27, 2009

I did read what you wrote. I looked at some of the edit history. My idea of looking into a situation carefully would be to look at every edit someone has done. I do things like when I have the time, but not when I'm supposed to be working. We're all volunteers here, and this doesn't look like a particularly urgent situation. Please read what I'm telling you carefully. The editor isn't doing anything in particular wrong, you are accusing her of vandalism, and you haven't even tried talking to her yet! Yes, she (if it is indeed Rickey Lime) is changing articles in which she has a COI, but on the other hand, she just happens to be an authority about such matters. Try talking to her about her edits and your concerns before you involve a third party. Sorry, but you are kind of being a tattletale. This hasn't even escalated to edit war level yet. If you are unsatisfied with my answer, try looking at the various types of dispute resolution. Do also familiarize yourself with the COI guidelines before approaching this editor. Again, it is uncivil to accuse another editor of vandalism without good reason. I also don't see where they have changed aliases, but have simply been editing anonymously and/or forgot to log in. Also, it usually isn't a good idea to compare "most muscians pages". Good luck. P.S. Any of my wikipals who watch this page--feel free to chime in. Katr67 (talk) 01:07, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

I've alerted User:RickeyGoodling of this discussion on her talk page. Katr67 (talk) 01:11, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

This looks like an editing dispute to me. I see no pattern of abusive edits. Talk to the other editor and try to reach a consensus. WP:DR may be helpful. Walter Siegmund (talk) 04:05, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

All right. If I am truly being unreasonable I apologize. I will leave it and the whole situation at that. We will see what happens. Mark William 18:04, 27 February 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Godblessyrblackheart (talk • contribs)

I contacted the user RickeyGoodling regarding her edits as was suggested. You can view it on her talk page here. My apologies again for being uncivil as I would like to work within Wiki policies as a wikipedian. Thanks. M.W. Mark William 18:31, 27 February 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Godblessyrblackheart (talk • contribs)

Thanks for understanding. If I have time this weekend, I may take a closer look, but frankly the only reason I got involved was that Lime is from Oregon and her edits showed up on the WikiProject Oregon watchlist. I don't usually edit band articles--my thing is geography--so you might try asking for help from a music-related Wikiproject who have more expertise in this area. Cheers, Katr67 (talk) 23:04, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Xenophopia does not involve a Xylophone: Another WPORE COTW

Greetings to WikiProject Oregon members. A big thank you to everyone who helped last week with the Oregon Constitution and John Whiteaker. This week, we have by request Clyde Drexler and a newer article in Religion in Oregon (I thought surveys said we didn’t have religion in Oregon). Once again, click here to opt out of these messages, or click here to make a suggestion for a future COTW. Aboutmovies (talk) 10:05, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Balch Hotel article

Noticed you deleted most of the external links at bottom of Balch Hotel article. Don't really care one way or the other, but might want to consider leaving Oregon Blue Book - City of Dufer link since it includes picture of Balch Hotel. Your call.--Orygun (talk) 19:54, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Ah. Sorry. I see you often put this type of link on articles, and nothing personal, but if they're not directly related to the article, I tend to delete them. The details of the reasons I do this are at WP:EL. But I didn't realize there was an image of the hotel on that link. I often put links such as that on articles, especially when they have images that would contribute to the understanding of the subject, so what I do is make it clear how the link is directly related to the article in its title. I'll put it back so you can see what I mean. Thanks for letting me know. Another great article from you of course. I'd never thought of Dufur as anything but a place with a funny name, but now I want to go visit. Katr67 (talk) 22:59, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Help with vandal

{{helpme}} I reverted some linkspam and now the editor is going through my contribs and reverting all my edits! Can an admin roll all these edits back? Katr67 (talk) 07:31, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Nevermind, I did it myself. Katr67 (talk) 07:49, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

re: My fan club

You are welcome. :) Cirt (talk) 08:20, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Belknap

Where did you get the coordinates for Belknap Springs, Oregon?

I'm confused. —EncMstr (talk) 06:36, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Originally I used to source my coords from here: http://nwdata.geol.pdx.edu/OR-GIS/PlaceNames/B.html but I use GNIS now. Feel free to change it, but it's pretty much the same, isn't it? Katr67 (talk) 06:52, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Close, yes: a difference of 95.0 metres (311.7 ft). That it's not identical is a bit disconcerting though. See map. —EncMstr (talk) 07:00, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Thanks

Thank you for the kind words. I'm happy to be part of the project and to be working with such a good team. Finetooth (talk) 23:21, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Castle Rock, Oregon

I see the disambiguation page you created Castle Rock, Oregon. According to policy, (MOS:DABRL), it's not recommended you create dab pages with none or few blue links (links that actually lead to pages). If you do include red links in the dab page, there should also be red links for the same articles in other Wikipedia articles. In other words, the dab page should not be the only place that red link exists. I think in this case, the best thing you could do is to create stubs for the articles linked to from Castle Rock, Oregon. — LinguistAtLarge • Talk 19:10, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

I was planning on linking to the county articles. Why don't you start some articles? Katr67 (talk) 19:14, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

P.S. I'm pretty familiar with Wikipedia policy. Perhaps I'm feeling a bit cranky today and I'm taking your suggestions the wrong way, but I'd recommend you read WP:TEMPLAR. Cheers, Katr67 (talk) 19:16, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

(edit conflict) By the way, I wasn't trying to scold you, it was more of a heads-up, since someone else may want to delete the dabpage etc. I'll take the Tillamook County Castle Rock article. :) — LinguistAtLarge • Talk 19:19, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Again, sorry, if it came across the wrong way. I was just worried that someone else would try to nominate the page for deletion or something. Thanks for the WP:TEMPLAR link as well. — LinguistAtLarge • Talk 19:21, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. I've never had a page deleted. If someone tries, I roll up my sleeves and get to work. Katr67 (talk) 19:40, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for accepting my apology (although I never said "I apologize"-- but I really do apologize for offending you, and I hope there's no hard feelings). I've seen your user name in the history of many Oregon articles I've edited, and I hope to collaborate with you on (more) Oregon articles in the future. If I remember right, you even made some corrections on articles I started, such as adding categories and stub-sorting. Anyway, have a great afternoon! — LinguistAtLarge • Talk 20:01, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

What a nice apology! I don't deserve it, such a crankypants am I. No worries. See ya around the wiki! P.S. Thanks for starting the Tillamook Co. one, I just meddled with it mercilessly. Enjoy. Katr67 (talk) 20:13, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Good changes! Those are exactly the things I sometimes miss. :) Cheers, — LinguistAtLarge • Talk 22:15, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Re:WikiProject Oregon invite

Katr67, Thanks for the invitation. I signed up. --John2165 (talk) 20:34, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Indy

You have about 1,100 characters of prose right now (not counting lists/infoboxes), and you need 1500. So another paragraph should do it. Plus you need to remove the stub tag/rating as well. Also, I don't have any other pics, never have had my camera with me when going through the "twin cities". If you do make it out there, I don't think we have much in the way of good pics of WOU either. And thanks for the add to Laurelwood, I think I have enough for a new article on the academy for another DYK. I've learned a lot about the Adventists lately, I had no idea they were vegetarians. Time for some GA work and maybe FA comments on Hillsboro. Aboutmovies (talk) 18:52, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Thanks and you're welcome. Cool, I think I have a couple more days to work up that DYK. Yeah, I'll get over to WOU--I can indulge my Gothic Revival fetish there. I believe many of the meat-analogue things in cans and/or frozen are made by Adventist companies. Let's see...Worthington and Morningstar Farms for starters. I was a vegetarian, but I rarely ate that stuff. It seems like I learned an interesting Oregon-related Adventist tidbit lately, but my memory is slipping...I stayed up too late. Katr67 (talk) 20:38, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Katr67

I noticed you kept some of my external link suggestions, at least for now. I am happy to see they are still there. Thanks for expanding the Panoramio links to include all photos tagged "Detroit Lake, Oregon". I thought of that today after I had finished my last inclusion. There is a lot more history about Detroit Lake and the City of Detroit, Oregon. Perhaps I can get my hands on more information to include later. Regards, --John2165 (talk) 04:28, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

RickeyGoodling, Godblessyrblackheart

Hi,

This is just a quick heads-up to say, I'm investigating this issue.

Godblessyrblackheart raised a helpme, and has explained their version of the history to me.

I've started investigating, and I will get to the bottom of the matter, assume good faith, and try to help them to come to some form of consensus to resolve the edit conflicts and other issues raised.

I'm not asking for your input from you at this stage, I just realize that you've been involved in the matter in the past, and thought it would be good to let you know what's happening.

I'll asked Godblessyrblackheart to refrain from edit-warring whilst we work out what's been happening.

I'll be posting my findings on my own talk page under User talk:Chzz#User:RickeyGoodling; I'll let you know when progress has been made.

All the best, -- Chzz ► 19:58, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

Action is being taken, please see User talk:Chzz#User:RickeyGoodling for details. Thanks, -- Chzz ► 23:29, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

thanks/sorry

Thanks for getting back to me promptly about the arch. site question, that was helpful. Saw ur edit label regarding wp:ORE importance ratings, sorry if i stepped on any toes. I revised the other ones i had done already to drop importance ratings, and finished out the set to cover the new county articles all the same. Thanks, doncram (talk) 20:31, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Helpful, not mean

Katr67, Have you ever considered trying to be helpful instead of mean. Look at Albany, Oregon. There is a Culture section there. I was trying to use that. If you don't think I did it right, how about making some suggestions instead of naming my contributions spam and a link farm. You have proven that you don't understand the dynamics of the area by your ignorance. You told me I was on the verge of link warring but you don't start any dialoge, you just delete. I think wikipedia is becoming a waste of time. If you want people to contribute, try being courteous. Otherwise, it's all yours. --John2165 (talk) 01:39, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Many people think I'm quite nice. Some also think I'm quite helpful. Most of the time I'm even quite fair. But I'm frustrated because you just don't seem to get what Wikipedia is about and so, no, I didn't feel like explaining myself. I figured you wouldn't pay attention, having ignored my previous suggestions (which happen to be based on Wikipedia policy and guidelines and aren't just my personal opinion.) A culture section means you add content about the cultural events, not merely links. I haven't checked the Albany, Oregon article lately, as I recall it was dreadful, but I recently cleaned up Molalla, Oregon and Mt. Angel, Oregon--those would be better examples of what we are looking for. (And read WP:OTHERSTUFF about how it's not useful to say "this article has this" so "that article should have it too.") As has been pointed out to you several times, Wikipedia is not a collection of links. Please don't talk to me about my ignorance. You are implying that I should not be editing the Detroit, Oregon and Detroit Lake articles because I know nothing about them. That kind of thinking is the very definition of WP:OWN. I've noted that you have some conflict of interest in your desire to "promote" the Detroit area. Please realize that Wikipedia is not a soapbox, nor is it a tourism guide or a photo hosting site. In other words though we welcome cited information from reliable sources being added to the article, adding more and more photos (especially with headings that promote a POV) and links don't build an encyclopedia. If you disagree with my edits, I suggest you seek out one of the many avenues of dispute resolution, though I suspect that folks would tend to agree with me about external links. I'm sorry if you end up finding Wikipedia a waste of time. WikiTravel or another similar website might be more of what you need. But I'd suggest you take the time to click on the bluelinks that lead to discussions about Wikipedia policy and guidelines and read up on how things work here. It can be kind of complicated. How about starting an article on T. Egenton Hogg or the Santiam Canyon School District? The history section in Detroit Lake is very short and could certainly be expanded. There are lots of ways you can help us write the best encyclopedia on the planet that won't make me react in a "mean" or "unhelpful" way! Katr67 (talk) 02:05, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

P.S. Here you say that you're a member of the Federal Lakes Recreation Committee for Detroit Lake, which is "[a] non profit group dedicated to promoting recreation in the Detroit Lake Area." That's a great cause, but Wikipedia is not here to help you promote that cause. Unfortunately your admission that you're part of this group may have biased me against your edits, which seemed in keeping with this goal of promotion. But the result is the same--excessive external links do not belong in articles, and so, I delete them. Another option would be to add a DMOZ link to each article, that way people can find a variety of links related to each article and not clutter up the el section. Katr67 (talk) 02:43, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Katr67, Thank you. Now that was helpful. I am interested in promoting Detroit Lake. But in a factual sense that might be education to readers. I will not post another word until I have time to research the information that you presented. The photo gallery that I presented is a representation of the many aspects of Detroit Lake, that most people don't know exist. If you think that number of photo's is over the top for wikipedia, then we can delete some of them. There is some great history about Detroit, Oregon and Detroit Lake. I will try and capture that information when I am there. There are some old photo's of the Dam construction in the tower over the Dam. I will have to look at those and see if they are copyright protected or public domain. If you think it would be relevant to the listings, I can explain in text about the events and not put links or just forget it. Detroit went from being an old logging community to one that needs tourism to stay afloat. I think that is part of the story. They came up with many ideas to bring people to the area to survive after a good part of the population left town after the timber crunch. You had made a comment in your previous response that additions could be discussed rather than just axed. So, I was hoping for some council rather than being named a link farmer. The promotion of Detroit Lake is a story in itself. The lake did not fill in 2001 because of low rainfall. Because of the lack income from tourism that year, the town almost dried up too. The fill curve created by the Army Corps is 55 years old. Some wonder if it is still accurate given the differences in our global weather environment. I am a little gun shy about what is going to be acceptable, so if you think that story has any relevance to wikipedia, let me know. --John2165 (talk) 15:03, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Katr67, I am in the process of researching all your links to understand the dynamics of wikipedia better. I read this statement: If you find yourself warring with other contributors over deletions, reversions, and so on, why not take some time off from the editing process? Taking yourself out of the equation can cool things off considerably. Take a fresh look a week or two later. Or, if someone else is claiming "ownership" of a page, you can bring it up on the associated talk page, appeal to other contributors, or consider the dispute resolution process.

"Since working on an article does not entitle you to "own" the article, it is still important to respect the work of your fellow contributors. When making large scale removals of content, particularly content contributed by one editor, it is important to consider whether a desirable result could be obtained by working with the editor, instead of against him or her—regardless of whether or not he or she "owns" the article." As I said before, I was hoping for counsel. I would like to write an article about the Cultural events in Detroit and Detroit Lake. I would like to explain as I have in my previous comment on this page about the changing economics of Detroit do to the Timber industry and tourism. So, if you will agree to help me, I will attempt to write an article. Perhaps you can edit it for proper English and we can discuss it together here or the discussion page. Please let me know if that is agreeable. ~ —Preceding unsigned comment added by John2165 (talk • contribs) 16:39, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

(unindent) Might I suggest you look for help at WikiProject Oregon? That way you can get a third, fourth and possibly even a fifth opinion. I'm recusing myself from these articles. Good day. Katr67 (talk) 16:44, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Katr67,

I appologize for being a jerk. I read more stuff about what wikipedia is not. So, I owe you an appology. Kindest Regards--John2165 (talk) 19:13, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. Sorry to be so cranky. Hopefully EncMstr was able to explain why! I admit my offers of assistance are mostly limited to encouraging people to read the guidelines. I'm not very good at handholding--that's not meant to put down your request for assistance, but as a WikiGnome, I just don't often have the patience to work with individual editors on content. Hopefully the good folks at WikiProject Oregon can help you out. One editor with an interest in articles about waterways is Finetooth. You might ask him if he'd like to work with you. Cheers, Katr67 (talk) 19:23, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Katr67: Can we strike this conversation from the your talk page? I am a little embarrassed by my behavior and would like to strike this conversation. I want to be about building up, not tearing down. Since I can't delete my account, I would prefer to make this conversation go away. Thanks for your consideration on the matter. Regards, --John2165 (talk) 14:25, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

Thanks!!

...for your vandal patrols at pdx.wiki.org! I'm writing to let you know that your RFA over there was unanimous, and you have been assigned a mop. Use it wisely!

Oh, and also. What's your level of interest in bikewiki? I have talked to two people recently who want to set one up. One is Ilana, and the other...well, um, I forget. But let me know if you want to work on this, and I can put y'all in touch. -Pete (talk) 19:58, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Oooh! I'll try not to let the power go to my head!

My interest level in a bike wiki is high. But my available time right now is low. Here in Salem, the bike community is a bit splintered and it would be nice to have a one-stop clearinghouse for all bikey related stuff in town. The closest thing we have right now is my friend's blog. Funny thing is, he's not interested in being involved in a wiki. On the upside, my other friend, Mike has offered to set up a bike wiki and host it on his server. He's already forgotten, but I'm not going to remind him about it until I have time to work on it, likely not until March. Long story short: it will happen, I want to keep it Salem-specific for now, I want to keep it viable and managable, I want to have lots of time to get it going, and I need to do some legwork in order to promote it around here. But I think once it gets going, we should throw it open and make it statewide (and likely membership only). I would love to hear other folks' ideas, and I gathered a list of existing bike wikis from which to take inspiration, so I can pass them along, but I won't have much time to devote to the project until later. But of course if folks want to start a PDX bike wiki, go for it! Katr67 (talk) 20:11, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

...So. You're a sysop on another wiki, eh? Hmmm... *nudge* — Scientizzle 17:56, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

Hey! I'm a sysop on three other wikis. Neener. :P P.S. You got moved to inactive status on WP:ORE, you slacker... Katr67 (talk) 18:04, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

It's true. I'm a terrible slacker. I've not contributed to Oregon stuff for some time--haven't managed more than a few vandal reverts. Too many important sciency things for me to write about, I suppose. — Scientizzle 18:18, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

Is there a template?

Your suggestion of a template for WP:SUP sounds like a great idea. Did you start a draft yet? I'd also like to let you know that Wikveristy has a v:Wikiversity:School and university projects. For some projects attempted by students that might be outside the scope of wp we could suggest that that they create a v:Wikiversity:Learning project. --mikeu ^talk 16:14, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

Comment - Rooster Rock State Park

I have made comments on both my talk page and the rooster rock talk page. I DO NOT like that YOU are accusing me of leaving messages in ALL CAPS, when that is NOT the case. I use caps for emphasis only. I can also say that I have good reason to believe that that user is using a sock puppet, regardless of his denials. Additionally there are many pages on wikipedia without references. If any user wants to remove something they should do so either with a reference or a personal knowledge at least, or because it is blatantly incorrect. It is highly unlikely that a user in Kentucky, and from Kentucky has too much knowledge of Oregon, or Chinook Wawa. He should stick to his fried chicken and the Kentucky Derby.Markosjal (talk) 06:58, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Please read about assuming good faith and civility. See also this essay about "but elsewhere on Wikipedia...". See why leaving personal attacks on user pages is a bad idea, and note that sockpuppet accusations should not the thrown about lightly as they are close to being personal attacks. Sockpuppets should be reported using the formal report process. As far as "so-and-so shouldn't edit Article X because s/he knows nothing about it", see this guideline about ownership of articles. As it so happens, I'm also from Kentucky and many editors here think I'm quite qualified to edit articles about Oregon. Your continued posting about this supposed bias against certain words based on various editors' religion, state of origin, etc., especially in light of the fact that your edits have been cleaned up, referenced and reincorporated into the articles in question are really becoming a waste of everyone's time and are becoming disruptive. I'd suggest you try editing articles in a different area for a while and be sure to click on the bluelinks provided in this message and read about how Wikipedia works. Ultimately we are all just here to write a really good encyclopedia. Happy editing! Katr67 (talk) 19:22, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Killer Oregon COTW, its Totally Rad

Greetings WikiProject Oregon peoples. It is once again time for another edition of the World Famous Collaboration Of The Week. Thank you to those who worked on Clyde and [the lack of] Religion in Oregon. This week (as many have noticed), we have the “it was a red link” and by request Eugene Station and Heceta Head in honor of the work that’s been going on at Oregon Coast. Once again, click here to opt out of these messages, or click here to make a suggestion for a future COTW. On a side note, does the recent news of Portland being the unhappiest place in all the land make people there more unhappy? Aboutmovies (talk) 06:49, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Photo discovery Detroit

You had asked me if the photo of Mongold was the old town of Detroit. Here a link to a picture of how Mongold looked during the construction phase. http://photos.salemhistory.net/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/max&CISOPTR=3765&CISOBOX=1&REC=16 I found a lot of really great photos on the Salem Public Library web site. The photos have descriptions that might become useful in writing an article in the future. There are a few photos of the old town of Detroit. I have asked EncMstr for help interpreting the copyright use of these and I also emailed the Salem Public Library. I thought you might find these photos interesting. Regards, --John2165 (talk) 00:00, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Cool photo. The Salem library collection is a great resource. So far I don't think anyone has been successful in finding a way to use the pics on Wikipedia, but they are good for reference. Watch out for inaccurate information in the descriptions though--they were written by volunteers and and are full of speculation, typos, etc. It's good to try to find a second source for anything written there. Katr67 (talk) 00:13, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Katr67, Thanks for the warning. rkmlai has offered to help me. I will try and research the information for accuracy. I have to keep reminding myself that not everything you find on the web is accurate. I emailed the library about using the photos, so we shall see what happens.--John2165 (talk) 04:55, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

So I am feeling appreciative of your assistance yielded on the Lost Valley Educational Center article. Thank you. I have volunteered to assist User:John2165 in wordsmithing the articles John2165 is working on. If you have further ideas that you would like to share (as I have read what you have discussed above), I would welcome the collaboration.

rkmlai (talk) has smiled at you! Smiles promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by smiling at someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Go on, smile! Cheers, and happy editing!
Smile at others by adding {{subst:Smile}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

Peace, rkmlai (talk) 10:47, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Architectural style

OK, I know its not Polk County, but what would you classify this architectural style as? American 70s mall, fire hazard, ugly, butt ugly, putrid, mission-wannabe, mission-cardboard box hybrid, or Battlestar Gallactia spaceship reject? OR maybe I missing one from what is now my favorite sports arena in the greater Salem area. Aboutmovies (talk) 09:31, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Early-Late-Postmodern Shingle-Pueblo Pizza-Box Monstrosity. aka What Were All Those Architects in the 1970s Smoking? All it's really missing is Avocado, Burnt Orange or Harvest Gold. Does it double as a waffle iron? Katr67 (talk) 09:47, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

I think we know what they were smoking. I'll bet you'll find the burnt orange inside, likely in the form of fake tile. I can't mock too much though, we had burnt orange carpet as a kid. Aboutmovies (talk) 10:11, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Since I'll be on the road most of tomorrow, could you make a dab page for George Steel and add links for the Oregon one and the Michigan one (both George A. and both were state treasurers)? Should keep you busy and away from certain areas. Aboutmovies (talk) 11:20, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

Allll unwatchlisted, even the ones I wrote. Sure I can do that. Nice work on Lausanne too. Katr67 (talk) 11:23, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

Oregon Coast

Per the conflict resolution: Dear Katr, I did not mean to offend. I was making what I thought were constructive changes and suggestions to the site and every one was deleted. My comments were met with hostility and accusations. I looked for help to resolve the conflict. When I did a search on Wikipedia, I was led to editor assistance which I thought was the next place to take it. I was not aware of any other options. You have been very kind and helpful since you have become more involved. Thank you for your participation.Lhammer610 (talk) 19:40, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

OLCC Update

Hi, KATR, I am the chief information officer for the Oregon Liquor Control Commission. I was informed that the OLCC Wiki had outdated and incorrect information. I was making an effort to bring it up to date. Thank you for sending me the COI information.

Are you the person who is moderating this wiki to make sure the information is current? If so, I would love to work with you to update this information. If it is more appropriate, I could send you information directly to post.

Thank you again, Christie Scott

OLCC1933 (talk) 17:25, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

Hi, see Pete has answered you and that you have a new user name. Like Pete said, I'm not the one who moderates "this wiki" (Just a minor quibble in terminology of mine: note that the wiki is the entire site--around here the individual articles are called pages or articles, not wikis.), but I do have an interest in Oregon-related articles and a strong dislike for copy-and-paste and COI, however well-intentioned, and noticed the changes to the article on WikiProject Oregon's watchlist. I like the rewrite efforts of your new (I'm assuming that's you) account, and I can take some time to start updating the article. Thanks for your efforts in working with us. I'm glad Pete is involved, I was going to mention this to him, since he helped a lot with Alcohol in Oregon. Just for future reference, it's almost never OK to copy and paste new material over the content of an old article, especially when the existing formatting, wikilinks, etc. are destroyed in the process. Also, though the info about the former director may or may not be timely, please note that Wikipedia is not a sanitized version of the history of your agency, and if unflattering information is relevant, written neutrally and attributed to reliable sources, then it will be in the article along with everything else. Hopefully you understand about COI now, so that will no longer be an issue. I would like to see the article fleshed out a bit more, so I'm happy to collaborate with you. P.S. Likely your e-mail is posted on the agency website, so it's not a big worry, but I removed it from here as a spam-protection. Katr67 (talk) 03:07, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

article alerts

You know these article alerts are autogenerated by a bot, right? tedder (talk) 04:39, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Yep, and the bot seems to screw up the formatting a bit so I fixed it. Is there something else I should have done? Katr67 (talk) 04:48, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

It definitely has an issue with that. The right way is probably to alert the aabot people- I have trouble doing complex things while on the road, or I would. Just wanted to make sure you knew why it was breaking every so often- an edit war with a bot would probably not end well :-) tedder (talk) 04:54, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

I gave up tangling with the orphan bot, but I bet I can take this one on. ;) Katr67 (talk) 04:57, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

introductions.

Hi Katr67, I'm being bold and introducing myself. My name is Christian Hejnal and I play in a band called Scarling. with my wife Jessicka. I just wanted to put it out there that if you had any issues with any pages related to my wife, my band, our roommate Lisa Leveridge, my co-worker Rickey Goodling or myself, please don't hesitate to come to me directly. I'm happy to help.

I am new to wikipedia and currently trying to get familiar with all the rules and protocol here. I believe whole heartily in a neutral stance but also would like things written about any of the previously mentioned pages to be 100% factual. I'm about to do an interview with a third party publication to set some things straight. Until then I just wanted to introduce myself because I plan on sticking around awhile.

=)

Xtian1313 (talk) 01:51, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

Oregon Government 2.0

Hi. A while ago, you expressed interest in the effort to put state works in the public domain. The central hub for that has moved to a PDX Wiki Wednesday page, and now there's a discussion forum. We have made quite a bit of progress, but we are hopelessly short on active members. If you're still interested, I urge you to get involved. Please check out the PDX Wiki Wednesday page and the forum for the progress we've made so far, and other info. Thanks! — Athelwulf ^[T]/_[C] 21:37, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

Edits/Deletions

Hello Katr67,

Per User:Chzz's request I am asking if there is any way to unlink my wife Jessicka's name and my band Scarling's name for this part of you talk archive: User:Katr67/Archive2.8 RE:Kyle Justin

Basically the accusations made by User:Godblessyrblackheart are false and I don't want slanderous talk linked to my wife or my band.

Forgive me if I'm out of line in asking this. An extensive talk on User:Chzz's talk page:

Not sure if you want to go through reading all of that mess- but I believe the final consensus was to either delete or unlink slanderous remarks. This of course entirely up to you.

Thanks for taking the time to read this, Xtian1313 (talk) 00:27, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

Hi. I'm not real interested in getting embroiled in this situation (and never have been), but I'll take a look at my archive. It shouldn't be a problem to unlink those articles. Good luck. Katr67 (talk) 00:37, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

V is for Victory at the COTW: Brought to you by the Letter W (naming rights still available)

Hear ye, hear ye WikiProject Oregon villagers. Tis time for another edition of ye ol’ Collaboration Of Thine Week. Thank you to those who worked on Eugene Station and Heceta Head the last few weeks, may the Black Death spare ye family. This time we have a we little stub in the John Ross Tower and by request Bill Walton in honor of a pretty good chance at making the playoffs for the Blazers (sorry can’t think of a good Old English type language for that one, but if we go with Olde English 800, then the Jail Blazers could come into play). Anyway, click here to opt out of these messages, or click here to make a suggestion for a future COTW. Aboutmovies (talk) 08:07, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Zeus is a really cool dude and he thinks these WP:ORE articles are cool too

Greetings WikiProject Oregon guys and gals. Once again it is time for another edition of the our niche market Collaboration Of The Week. As always, thank you to those who worked on the Ross Tower and Walton. For this week we have the Calapooya Mountains and by request (and in honor of the opening) the venerable Portland Saturday Market. Just remember, if you are feeling blue, try breathing (rimshot please). Once again, click here to opt out of these messages, or click here to make a suggestion for a future COTW. Aboutmovies (talk) 21:40, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

OR school articles

Thanks on this, and FYI on this, in case you want to share your opinion. tedder (talk) 02:02, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Jinx! I just sent you a note. You're welcome. I'll take a look, thanks. Katr67 (talk) 02:12, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

St. Mary's School edits

Very nice editing. You went much further than I in cleaning up style and you also (appropriately) linked the school to the regions "Southern Oregon" and "Northern California". Your profile indicates that you are very busy in real life; so am I. Nevertheless, you have managed to learn much more of the Wikipedia methodology than I have so far. Maybe I'll catch up over the summer!Hal Wing (talk) 06:07, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Francis/Frances

Thanks for your attention to, and clean-up of, my new page on Francis J. Murnane. (Francis is the correct spelling.) I am somewhat new to this and am a fast learner, so hopefully there will be less clean-up next time.

You offered help with references, and I'd love to know more. We only have photocopied articles. I can reference them (ie Oregonian, June 10, 1959), but I can't link to anything electronic. What do you suggest? WikiGolightly (talk) 08:48, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Hi, just a quick note. References don't have be electronic, though it does help with fact-checking. For newspaper refs, we need as much of: author, date (day, month, year), name of newspaper, and title of story that you can get. Section and page numbers might help if you have them. Aboutmovies watches this page--do you have anything to add AM?

Oh, and it sounds like Mr. Murnane may be notable, but please do remember that Wikipedia should not be used as a means for promoting the saving/restoration of the memorial. Personally (not speaking for all of Wikipedia), I think that sounds like a good cause, (which may or may not be notable) but please be careful about violating our guidelines about promotion and conflict of interest. Cheers, Katr67 (talk) 15:33, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Ditto on the sources, off line is fine, provide as much as you can just like you would for a term paper in school. With the second part, also WP:SOAPBOX comes to mind with how the article reads/structured along with the companion dock article. Writing a neutral and encyclopedic article is fine, but Wikipedia is not here to promote any cause such as preservation of the dock any more than it would be here for to promote destroying the dock. We are Switzerland, we don't take sides. Aboutmovies (talk) 20:04, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Thanks AM. I was also going to say that you can use the templates (or at least the format) at Wikipedia:Citation templates, and do your best and someone else will be along to fix them if they need it. There's a beginner's citation guide here: WP:REFB. I've seen the rough recommendation that a minimum there be a citation for each paragraph. Folks like AM and I tend to aim for a citation for every sentence (this makes things easier for folks coming along to add to the article later). Questionable claims should always be cited, especially things like "he was very influential" or "he was considered the best Wikipedian ever". I hope that helps. Katr67 (talk) 21:13, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Our boy

Hi, Katr. I saw your message over at Scientizzle's page. I wanted to let you know that I've been aware of "our boy" since he popped back up in March (you are correct about him, of course). I've been keeping tabs on him and his other two open socks User:Sally77 and User:Rhodeislandroger. I preferred to wait and see whether his activity became disruptive again before filing another SPI. I see that yesterday was a big flourish of activity from him -- but nothing particularly problematic so far. Since he probably watches Scientizzle's talk page (he did before) as well as your own now because you reverted him yesterday, he may be aware that his cover is blown. We'll see what he does. I'll continue to keep an eye on him. And thanks for doing the same. — CactusWriter | ^needles 06:59, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

Wiki humor

So these people not only copied all the pictures from the Hillsboro article, but they also copied the text, including red links. I don't think I've seen that before. Aboutmovies (talk) 09:52, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

Well, they are the "econolodge"--probably can't afford to take their own pics. Don't they have to put a note somewhere that they got the text from Wikipedia? Unfortunately, their website doesn't have insta-editing capability. Did you catch the "Hillbsboro, Oregon" in the header? So how many websites does that make now that are using your pics? Katr67 (talk) 16:12, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

That's how I always spell it, I learned that from the USGS/GNIS, who cited the Econolodge! ;) And yes, they are breaking copyright law right now by not attributing the text to Wikipedia. As to photo "borrowers" I think I've come across about 10 sites/blogs with my pics, though only OregonLive was using one that required attribution. That's the only reason I even do the CC licensing with most stuff since the commercial sites don't want to have to do that. But these were older pics from before I started catching people re-using them. Aboutmovies (talk) 06:52, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

User:Pioneercourthouse

I added the latest questionable user, and it says something about posting it to the checkuser summary page, but that page is protected. I wonder if you'd mind looking at this and fixing it as needed. I also posted this request at WP:ANI, but you were the last to touch this one, the last time, a couple of months ago. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 14:27, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

Another user moved it from Wikipedia:Requests for checkuser/Case/Pioneercourthouse to Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Pioneercourthouse. So hopefully we're good. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 14:54, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

He gone, and without a whimper. Just a quack. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 04:18, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

U too can help Oregon

Howdy WikiProject Oregon folks. It is time again it is time for another round of the Collaboration Of The Week. A big thank you to those who worked on Calapooya Mountains and Portland Saturday Market, both saw some great improvements. For this week we have two great opportunities for DYKs with Brian McMenamin and Algoma, Oregon. Once again, click here to opt out of these messages, or click here to make a suggestion for a future COTW. Aboutmovies (talk) 07:34, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

merging Oregon City SD, how should it look?

So the merge to Oregon City School District (Oregon); how should the middle school entry actually look? I figure it should be turned into a paragraph form, but I work best from example, especially with the coordinate entry and such. Can you point me at an article showing something similar? tedder (talk) 01:10, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Just a minute, there's 3 or 4, I'll see if I can remember where they are... Katr67 (talk) 01:12, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Hrm. It seems most of the examples are dreadful. Here's the best one: Salem-Keizer School District, where I merged in the Walker Middle School info (and split off the info on its namesake into a new article). There are also a couple with this bullet point approach: Greater Albany Public School District (but ignore the awful embedded els). I don't know if other states have better examples. The rest of these are varying degrees of awful: Tigard-Tualatin School District, Canby School District, and North Marion School District. The info here is also the result of a merge: Wilsonville, Oregon#Education, but it needs to get moved to the school district article. Looks like I've been slacking in my campaign to move the school info to the SD articles and keep them reasonably free of dreck. So many school districts, so little time... Thanks for offering to clean up! It was needing a little more of my attention than I had at the moment. Katr67 (talk) 01:34, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Done! I'm kinda proud of myself. And I like the bullet layout for those. tedder (talk) 03:06, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Cool, thanks! I kinda hate to burst your bubble, but I did say to "ignore the awful embedded els" in the bullet point example. In other words, since Wikipedia is not a directory, it's preferable that there only be one link to each website in an article, so a single link to the school district website should suffice. People can easily search a district site for the specific school they need. If there must be multiple links in the article, it's better to use them as references instead of embedded in the headings. I can dig up the relevant guideline if you're interested. But my personal opinion, based on my interpretation of the guidelines, is that the only hotlinks in the body text of an article should be to other Wikipedia articles. Hotlinks to external sites seem to encourage linkspamming and general article clutter. The adding of external links in this way is often done in good faith because new editors tend to copy the format of the existing article, but it's spam nonetheless. I also think embedded titled links look worse than refs, but that's just me, your mileage may vary. Katr67 (talk) 16:49, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

You are right, I missed that, and I'm not a fan of the embedded ELs either, for the reasons you give. So you think they should be simple refs? Or something like "School name link"? I'm assuming the former. (I wouldn't mind having you do it so I can what you think it should look like) In general, ELs in articles are suspect to me too. tedder (talk) 16:53, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

I'm glad you agree! Sorry if I overexplained. I'd say use the individual school webpages as refs if they back up facts listed in the article about the school. I think that's a good compromise and good citations are always a good practice. But if there are not facts, just a listing of the school name, I'd say there should not be an external link anywhere but in the el section (and only to the main district page). Go for it! Otherwise I'll probably have time to go into Wikipedia hyperfocus this evening if you don't get to it... Katr67 (talk) 17:03, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Done. LMK if you disagree with the format. tedder (talk) 18:37, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Rajneesh movement

Thank you for the fixes [3]. The page is now located at "Rajneesh movement", the term for the movement used most predominantly in the greatest majority of reliable sources by far, including 360 books, and 152 scholarly sources. Your comments about the appropriateness of the page's current name would be appreciated at Talk:Rajneesh_movement#Rajneesh_movement. Thank you for your time, Cirt (talk) 03:28, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Law in Oregon Law

Hiya. Good Olfactory tried to redirect Category:Law in Oregon to Category:Oregon law, but you undid the change with the comment "sorry, we need this". I'm struggling to figure out a reasonable way to fit both these categories into the larger Wikipedia category structure, when one category would fit much better. Can you explain why the two separate categories are needed? —Ipoellet (talk) 20:11, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Because Eastlaw (talk · contribs) would not let us put anything that did not pertain exactly to the laws of the State of Oregon into the Oregon law cat. But we did need a category that would allow us to include things like lawyers, federal cases, etc. As I recall, Eastlaw was unable or unwilling to offer an alternate suggestion, despite being asked quite civilly. If we could encourage the "owner" (who appears to be Eastlaw) of the "Your state here law" categories to expand the criteria for inclusion in the category, then of course we could merge the two categories. Other suggestions are welcome. Aboutmovies (talk · contribs) might have some input as well. Thanks for asking. It would be nice to clear this up. Katr67 (talk) 20:29, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Some background:

Page history of Category:Law firms based in Portland, Oregon

Eastlaw's response

Another discussion where we were asked to remove articles from the "Your state here law" category

Postdlf's request to Big Smooth

~~I think~~ there was one more discussion with Aboutmovies and maybe me on Postdlf's page, ~~but I can't find it right now.~~ Katr67 (talk) 20:41, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

More discussion between Aboutmovies and Eastlaw. We obviously could use some 4th, 5th and 6th opinions, please, thanks. Katr67 (talk) 20:53, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

more discussion between Postdlf and Big Smooth. Katr67 (talk) 21:03, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Yikes! I haven't read all those links yet, but I'm sure they will be helpful. Thank you. BTW, I've been busy creating those categories recently and overlooked adding the WPOR banner to them. Thanks to you and Aboutmovies for picking up after me. —Ipoellet (talk) 18:16, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

(unindent) Yeah, there was a bit of a kerfuffle. But my summary above should suffice as an explanation. I did just move "Oregon law" into "Laws of Oregon" as a subcat, so that should hold it for now. It did look dumb in the category tree to have both of them there, but I didn't get around to doing anything about it until now. Thanks for your good work, and no problem about the wpore tags--that's what wikignomes are for. Katr67 (talk) 19:30, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Bring on the COTW

Good afternoon WikiProject Oregon peoples. It is time again it is time for another round of the Collaboration Of The Week, Volume 82. Thank you to those who worked on Algoma, Oregon‎ and Brian McMenamin, both saw some great improvements and are up for DYks. This week we have Mary Alice Ford and by request Waterfront Blues Festival. Once again, click here to opt out of these messages, or click here to make a suggestion for a future COTW. Live long and phosphorous. Aboutmovies (talk) 23:24, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Oregon Coast Category

Hello Katr67. Out of curiosity, why were the Category:Oregon, Category:History of Oregon, Category:Oregon Country, incorrect for the Oregon Coast? Just trying to learn and understand. Thanks. Lhammer610 (talk) 17:00, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Category:Oregon is a top-level cat. Most articles should go in sub-catergories of the Oregon cat. (see the category page for an editing note regarding this) The Oregon Coast is a region. Ostensibly, all regions in Oregon are part of Oregon history, thus this is overcategorization and thus unnecessary. Category:Oregon Country refers to a specific time period in Oregon history, and again, ostensibly all regions would be part of this category, so again, it is overcategorization. If it is indeed necessary to have the Oregon Coast included in these categories, then its parent category--Category:Oregon Coast--should be what is included in the other categories, and not the main article Oregon Coast. I hope that explains. Katr67 (talk) 17:07, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

"I hope that explains." Uh, maybe, but still confused. I see that the Oregon Coast belongs under Category:Regions of Oregon. But I would have suspected that the Regions of Oregon belong under the Category:Oregon. That way, a reader might go from Oregon to Regions of Oregon to Oregon Coast? The only connection I can find is from Category:Oregon, to Geography to Regions to Oregon Coast. Is that direct enough? I am not suggesting that a change be made, but I don't understand the proper flow, even after looking at the convoluted graphic on the Wikipedia:Categorization page and reading the explanation. Thanks. Lhammer610 (talk) 21:24, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, I don't make the rules, I just try to follow them. Katr67 (talk) 23:12, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

[1] Last, First, Some Book, Publishing Company. City of publication. 1985.

[rlotp 1]