Template talk:George Floyd protests map

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Change

@Phoebe: would you make St. Paul red like Minneapolis? Needs to happen in order for either to show red. Also Sacramento's needs to be removed to be the default blue. $ɱ$ (talk) 23:09, 31 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yep, I fixed it - phoebe / (talk to me) 23:10, 31 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

by size

A thought - we could make markers for protests >1000 people large size? -- phoebe / (talk to me) 23:11, 31 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support I was thinking about this too. Almost all the markers have a "small" attribute. Might as well use the option for a reason. Kire1975 (talk) 23:26, 31 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I think consider using different colors or marker icons instead of marker sizes. $ɱ$ (talk) 23:44, 31 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

We could do both - my original thought was showing multi-day protests too. Either way - just need to gather the data. You're right that given density on east coast especially color might stand out more. Red for 1000+? I need a break from all this but can get back to it later tonight or tomorrow -- phoebe / (talk to me) 23:59, 31 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hey Ɱ, Kire1975 and anyone else interested - I'm testing color/size over at user:phoebe/map test if you want to mess with it in a non-live place. Let me know what you think looks best :) -- phoebe / (talk to me) 14:23, 1 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Phoebe:: It seems allright but I would prefer the red be used for rallies more than 5,000 instead of multiday. Is there maybe a way to have multiple maps, one for each day? So we can toggle back and forth or layer it somehow? Might be a lot of work, but I don't have much else to do besides help out. Kire1975 (talk) 18:18, 1 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Kire1975: - red for big rallies (and then a different color for the Twin Cities, or a flag or something) is fine with me too. However, we need a list. What about switching work to this: Template:George_Floyd_protests_timeline - so once it's reasonably complete it can go back in the article and we'll have a data source for size of rally, as right now I don't have a complete list of >1000 or >5000. -- phoebe / (talk to me) 18:24, 1 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Phoebe:: he list is fine, but can it be foldable or on another page? The main article is huge now. Takes so long to submit changes the edits have conflicts while i'm waiting more often than not. Also, I think timeline pages for each major city or state like George Floyd protests in Minnesota. Last question, are there only two marker sizes? Be back in a couple hours. Kire1975 (talk) 18:43, 1 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Is there an update on this effort? It'd be great if the map could mark the thousands marching over many day, while acknowledging the many smaller protests happening everywhere. - Featous (talk) 14:34, 6 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Missing

SF, Indianapolis, NYC, anything else? Please add these if you can. $ɱ$ (talk) 23:24, 31 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Do you mean missing from the map? We're working on it. Feel free to add them yourself. Any questions, just ask. Kire1975 (talk) 23:28, 31 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I'm on mobile, hard for me to right now. Just making y'all aware. $ɱ$ (talk) 23:31, 31 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

yep user:Ɱ is the originator of this map & knows all about it :) I added SF & NYC, will do Indianapolis now. -- phoebe / (talk to me) 23:36, 31 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Albany, NYC, Ogden, and Indianapolis have coordinates fairly off the mark. $ɱ$ (talk) 23:54, 31 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Spokane, Tacoma, Olympia too. $ɱ$ (talk) 23:56, 31 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

There also is Sault Ste. Marie in the Upper peninsula of MI now. I would add it myself, but I'm not sure how the code works and don't want to screw it up. Here is a news article from yesterday talking about it. ^[1] 2600:1700:EA50:8B10:28C9:8D56:9305:6AB8 (talk) 20:54, 2 June 2020 (UTC) Morrie[reply]

Bern (Switzerland) is missing. --193.247.119.164 (talk) 13:41, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

^ https://www.9and10news.com/2020/06/01/sault-ste-marie-protesters-show-support-for-national-movement/

Ordering

tl;dr: if you want to, paste the data section into https://jsfiddle.net/81w2t49d/show to reorder & renumber items. We don't expect all editors to do this. Mouthpity (talk) 05:53, 4 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It's probably best to order these by latitude decreasing since later markers are rendered above earlier ones in the preview renderer (Santa Rosa is shown layered “above” San Francisco, for example.) Mouthpity (talk) 23:35, 31 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

but alphabetization makes it WAY easier to scan the list of names as a human to see if one is already there! Regardless of the order, there's no way to automatically renumber that I'm aware of, so continue adding cities to the end for now, thanks. -- phoebe / (talk to me) 23:37, 31 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Gimme an hour or two, I'll make something. :) Mouthpity (talk) 23:40, 31 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Try https://jsfiddle.net/wL23s07k/show. It'll alphabetize and still keep numbers in the “right” order to avoid layering problems. You can optionally make it turn the names into a nice readable column. (I hereby release that code under the CC0 license.) Mouthpity (talk) 00:29, 1 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The title, type and marker numbers are all off now thanks to this edit by @Mouthpity:. How do I know what the latest number is? Duplicates will not show up on the map. This change was not discussed on the talk page. Kire1975 (talk) 01:05, 1 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Mouthpity: When you say "starting with a far larger number, eg. in the thousands" do you mean the title, type and marker numbers or number of protesters? I did what I think you meant but I don't see the new cities (plainview and riverhead) coming up. cc: @Phoebe: the new cities aren't coming up on the map this way Kire1975 (talk) 01:10, 1 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It I mean the title/type/marker numbers. The map template allowed for skipping numbers in my testing, but I'll double-check. Thanks for the ping.Mouthpity (talk) 01:55, 1 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

You're right, numbers can't be skipped. Apologies for that! I've added a comment referring explicitly stating which number is next. Mouthpity (talk) 01:58, 1 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

What was the point of all this? Now the first 113 cities are all out of order for what reason? Wouldn't it have been easier to reset it to where it was before and re-add the new ones that were added up to here? Kire1975 (talk) 02:03, 1 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Having the IDs (|marker<ID>=...) out of order is necessary to allow both correct layering of pins in the preview & alphabetic ordering of cities in the list. Mouthpity (talk) 02:18, 1 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

https://jsfiddle.net/81w2t49d/show: version that supports [[]] links. Mouthpity (talk) 18:07, 1 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Mouthpity: - since I don't really understand how the JS works in this... it would be great to get an explanation on how you are doing the renumbering in case you're not able to do it. Also, it would be great to not be dependent on external/hidden code, so other editors can work on it. Thanks!! -- phoebe / (talk to me) 18:26, 1 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Phoebe: - For stability: it'll be fine well into the thousands of cities, though it might get angry if the formatting changes. (And: page edits will keep getting bigger!) The (very shoddy) code can be seen by removing /show from the jsfiddle link.

Renumbering currently works as follows: Take all the lines. Number them such that the “index” is bigger when the latitude is bigger. Then take those numbered rows and sort them alphabetically by the city name (putting the indexes out of order).

It may be worth creating a Lua Module that takes a common database to generate both a table and map. Mouthpity (talk) 18:35, 1 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! I guess I meant - start from the beginning about the renumbering, like *how* do you take all the lines and number them? It's not very transparent. A Lua module would be sweet but I'm wary of having something too obscure for editing purposes right now -- given the in-flux nature of this it needs to be something a lot of people can edit, regardless of whether they get the js/lua etc. Thanks again! -- phoebe / (talk to me) 18:40, 1 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, there are some regular expressions in the code that match the currently used format of one-line-per-city to extract data from each line, then apply the transformations I mentioned.

In terms of editability, Lua modules would probably help: they could allow for lines as simple as  |wikidata9=Q64|size9=thousands Mouthpity (talk) 18:47, 1 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Phoebe: Have a look at my sandbox, does that source format seem reasonably editable to you? Mouthpity (talk) 21:58, 1 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Mouthpity: Tell me more? I like how it looks but I'm not immediately understanding how the editing works. The great thing about a straight table is you can edit it with visual editor and it's pretty straightforward. But... not auto-updatable! -- phoebe / (talk to me) 01:37, 2 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Phoebe: Yep, if the visual editor is easiest to handle for now, definitely stick to it. That being said, ideally there would be no cases where we have an entry in the map that's not in the table & vice versa. Given that, it seems making them both rely on the same data would be very good. With that lua module I whipped up, you can define a city with |wikidata-{id}=Q999 ({id} is an arbitrary identifier for the city, it's not picky.) and then add protest dates with sizes and references using |size-{id}-{date}=1000; |ref-{id}-{date}=<ref>{cite web...}</ref>. The map could pull from this and shade/size the markers according to the number of dates, maximum protest size, etc. Mouthpity (talk) 03:19, 2 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Mouthpity: I agree that would be awesome & we should def not have a table/map that is out of sync. I'm just not understanding how to edit what you made - like where to enter the data. You'll have to write me a tutorial LOL. I'm going to bed anyway - more on this tomorrow! hopefully it will calm down a little (how many more cities with protests can there be?!) -- phoebe / (talk to me) 05:12, 2 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Phoebe: It should show up when you try to edit my sandbox, right? I've also added a bit of documentation. Mouthpity (talk) 07:18, 2 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with Phoebe that the template should not get any more complex than it is. It is thriving due to contributions of ordinary users, some of whom are even finding difficulty following the existing instructions. Using Lua/wikidata linking is something beyond the knowledge of many editors; perhaps consider using those after the protests have ended and the additions are slowing down. $ɱ$ (talk) 23:01, 1 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Works for me :) Mouthpity (talk) 23:51, 1 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Linking

Cities could be linked, though I might suggest only linking cities with their own page for their protests; otherwise could do something like [[Seattle]] ([[George Floyd protests in Seattle|protests]]) $ɱ$ (talk) 23:41, 31 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Total width

Would 600px work? 700 sure squeezes the text in the article. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 00:53, 1 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Try it, but I think it would cut some off. It's at the optimal zoom right now too. $ɱ$ (talk) 00:59, 1 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Could consider a center-aligned display in its own area? $ɱ$ (talk) 01:01, 1 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Formating Incorrect

The additional entries are not showing up because the numbers for markes must be sequential. I can't fix it fast enough to get the change through

Current Format:

Correct Format:

--greenwolf (talk) 01:55, 1 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I attempted to fix it but ran into an error. Ed ^{[talk] [majestic titan]} 01:58, 1 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed this. My bad, see above. Sorry for the confusion! (and the 99.99 error was because the TownName row was used though it shouldn't have been) Mouthpity (talk) 01:58, 1 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Vancouver

I've removed Vancouver since there's still discussion on how to handle non-contiguous-US protest locations. If someone wants to add it back: |title=Vancouver|coord={{coord|49.28|-123.12}}|type=point|marker=city|marker-size=small Mouthpity (talk) 02:50, 1 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

added back as I'm adding all intl cities now, see below. -- phoebe / (talk to me) 16:41, 1 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

international cities

as best as I can tell with testing from User:Phoebe/George_Floyd_protest_table and user:phoebe/map test - if we add non lower-us48 cities, they won't show up in the map as displayed, but WILL show up if you click on the map/make it full size. That seems like a useful feature. What do you think mouthpity, others? Should we go ahead and add in those intl cities?

I think this is a good idea; note in the caption that international cities can be seen when zoomed out, or similar.

ɱ

(talk) 15:13, 1 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

OK I'm on it!! Then the other table :) -- phoebe / (talk to me) 15:47, 1 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Added cities

I have added Paterson to the list. There is also Hoboken, Jersey City and Trenton missing from the lists. We should also organize the actual list itself so it is easier to edit. Allan Tracy 16:33, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

To edit the map, you only add cities to the end! Do a control-f to find if cities are already added. It works out :) Are those NJ cities in the list in the article List of George Floyd protests? go ahead and add there if not with a source about size of protest and then we can put in map. -- phoebe / (talk to me) 16:41, 1 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Added a few Ohio cities

I've added a few Ohio cities to the map. If any are not suitable for the map, please let me know. Phuzion (talk) 21:21, 1 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Can someone please add Auckland (over 100) and potentially other protests in New Zealand

I am not comfortable editing this template, however there are multiple sources documenting their existence (will link below). The Auckland one definitely had over 100 in attendance (4,000), as did Wellington (500) and I believe this was also the case in Christchurch.

Forgot to initially sign. This was around 2-3 hours ago. WBPchur ^{💬●✒️●💛} 23:56, 1 June 2020 (UTC).[reply]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12336356

— Preceding unsigned comment added by WBPchur (talk • contribs)

@WBPchur: They're already included in the list page, so I'll go ahead and add 'em :) Mouthpity (talk) 21:56, 1 June 2020 (UTC) —— nvm, they're already in![reply]

Thanks heaps. WBPchur ^{💬●✒️●💛} 23:56, 1 June 2020 (UTC).[reply]

They don't show up on the map for me though? WBPchur ^{💬●✒️●💛} 23:57, 1 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@WBPchur: I had added the New Zealand protests already before this ... but to view them, pro-tip -- scroll the other direction on the map to see them (they don't show up if you go left) :) -- phoebe / (talk to me) 05:06, 2 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Jerusalem?

What's the source for George Floyd protests in Jerusalem? The current protests in the city are because of the murder of an autistic Palestinian man by Israeli police.--Karaeng Matoaya (talk) 06:35, 2 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

WaPo:

In another expression of solidarity with American protesters, about 150 people marched through central Jerusalem on Saturday to protest the shooting death by Israeli police of an unarmed, autistic Palestinian man earlier in the day.

972mag: (reporting about Tel Aviv)

The demonstrators held signs that read “Palestinian Lives Matter” and “Justice for Iyad, Justice for George,” in reference to George Floyd, an unarmed black man who was killed last week in Minneapolis, Minnesota, after a white policer officer pinned him to the ground by his neck.

Sources linked from the main list. Mouthpity (talk) 14:58, 2 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Riverside

Riverside at 40°53′N 72°39′W / 40.89°N 72.65°W / 40.89; -72.65 seems to be a really, really small Hamlet. Kire1975, was there really a protest with 100+ people here? Or should it be Riverhead across Peconic River? Mouthpity (talk) 21:28, 2 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Your link points to Riverhead. Maybe that's why you couldn't find the source that was posted on the page a couple days ago. It appears to be a central gathering point for all of Suffolk County, Long Island with access to an Interstate, two state roads and two county roads. Either way, I don't post points on the map without sources. Thanks for asking. Kire1975 (talk) 22:16, 2 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Well no, my link points to Riverside, just south of Riverhead. Guess it doesn't exist in OSM? Either way, I've renamed the marker. Thanks :) Mouthpity (talk) 22:50, 2 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Definition of "city"

Most of the markers within the US point to what is recognized as a city, town, township, village, CDP, or equivalent; if there are protests in two of these, then they are listed separately, even if they are in the same metro area. However, there are a few exceptions:

Each borough of NYC is listed separately. (There was an attempt to list each neighborhood separately, but I decided against it)
Champaign–Urbana is listed once, even though it is two separate cities.
"Cape Cod" is listed, even though it isn't a city or town, but a region (and a county, but under a different name).

What do you think the rules should be? --Numberguy6 (talk) 16:01, 3 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

2¢: I explicitly want to allow separate boroughs of NYC. As a rule of thumb, maybe allow neighborhoods in cities of ⪞ 5million. Definitely split Champaign-Urbana. No idea about Cape Cod, that one should be more specific. Mouthpity (talk) 17:26, 3 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think it's a big deal if we don't go by some national or international definition of a city or municipality. Try to use your best judgment, I don't think a formal rule needs to be established here.

ɱ

(talk) 17:43, 3 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Ɱ +1 on that. (hence rule of thumb ;) ) Mouthpity (talk) 22:50, 3 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

There have been several attempts (including by me) to include the NYC neighborhoods. I think it is a good idea because the city is huge, and even within the boroughs there are MANY MANY dozens of protests. Including these is representative of the number of protests. It is not fair that a protest in a small city of 5000 in Iowa gets the same treatment as dozens of protests in Manhattan. I made a map of these locations in George Floyd protests in New York City, and I believe they should be included in the main map. Wondering what the consensus is. Ravimdholakia (talk) 22:42, 13 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Please add two cities in Puerto Rico

Hello! This map is a very useful graphic. I just started this graphic, George Floyd protests in Puerto Rico Can someone help add two locations: San Juan, Puerto Rico (Old San Juan if desired) [1] over 200 protesters and Loíza, Puerto Rico [2] hundreds. It should show up in the "U.S. & Canadian cities with George Floyd protests" and "World wide maps." Thank you! TJMSmith (talk) 17:49, 3 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

On it Mouthpity (talk) 19:14, 3 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@TJMSmith:: done Mouthpity (talk) 19:21, 3 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Please add 5 more

This old man has no idea how to edit this here mapperoo contraption, so would you all kindly add the following cities, already listed in the text articles as having >100 participants?

Thanks. I've already posted about 20 protests, and may post some more >100 protests myself, and will notify you when I do. Textorus (talk) 03:34, 4 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Lagos?

Somebody added Lagos (Nigeria) on the map, but none of the sources nor the map mention there being more than 100 protesters. Is that right? AnarchistiCookie (talk) 21:42, 4 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

i was the one who added lagos to the list, though i refrained from adding it to the map since i couldn't find any sources that explicitly mentioned there being at least 100 protestors. the first picture on the herald could arguably have 100 people in it, but the resolution is too poor for me to confidently count the number of people pictured. dying (talk) 03:31, 5 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Add Mexico to the description?

Someone was killed by police in Mexico today which sparked protests. Mexico city location is visible on the map. I propose we change the map description to include Mexico, along with the US and Canada. 6:08, 5 June 2020 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.158.61.86 (talk)

Done.

ɱ

(talk) 18:12, 5 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

But was that a George Floyd protest? Textorus (talk) 00:10, 6 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It started as one at the very least 69.158.61.86 (talk) 00:57, 6 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Carmel, Indiana

Has it really moved to western China? Somebody, please fix. Textorus (talk) 00:08, 6 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Montgomery and Tuscaloosa

These two alabama cities are missing from the map. I thought it was because of this edit but reverting it didn't put them back on the map. Please advise.

My other question is are we doing more than two decimal points now in the coordinates? User @2603:900a:1500:1a00:610c:19ca:db50:6ffa: who has no talk page is making a lot of edits tonight and creating a number of conflicts that are frustrating and confusing. Some cities disappear. Other cities are where they are supposed to be. I wish I could figure out what's going on. Thanks. Kire1975 (talk) 03:26, 6 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Kire1975: If cities disappear, there's probably a missing index somewhere. You can paste the data block into https://jsfiddle.net/81w2t49d/show (linked above, too) and it'll renumber them to kill any gaps. (Make sure that the template at the bottom of the source actually starts with the next one afterwards, though!) Mouthpity (talk) 08:03, 6 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Can somebody please take a look at what this anonymous author is doing? Some of these edits don't look right. For example, this is incorrect because there hasn't been a demo there. AnarchistiCookie (talk) 19:01, 6 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I would support semi-protecting the map, fwiw. People can add to the text of the article if they want to add something. -- phoebe / (talk to me) 23:07, 6 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Simplified syntax and auto sorting pins

@Mouthpity, Phoebe, Ɱ, and Kire1975: in an attempt to simplify the syntax and make it easier to add new pins (without the need to renumber) I created Template:George Floyd protests map/sandbox which uses Module:Mapframe/simple. have a look at the source for Template:George Floyd protests map/sandbox to see how much easier it is to add a new entry, and no need for renumbering. the way that the submodule works is that it preprocesses the entries, and sorts the pins before passing them to Module:Mapframe. the pin sorting feature could almost certainly be added to Module:Mapframe, so I imagine this submodule may be sort lived (especially if there is an efficiency/overhead issue). any missing entries in the delimited entry lists default the default value at the top. I picked the same ordering used in the current template, but we could change the default ordering, or make that an option. comments, suggestions? Frietjes (talk) 20:36, 6 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Amazing, thank you! Not quite sure how you managed it, seems a little beyond me. Would support immediately switching over, and yeah, the pin sorting seems like something module:mapframe could benefit from.

ɱ

(talk) 20:42, 6 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Frietjes: replace it before they're too far out of sync! ;) Mouthpity (talk) 21:04, 6 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

So I am fine with replacing it - I'll just note that my best guess is (after bringing it up to a few people) that it is the map that is causing our template display issues in List of George Floyd protests in the United States. Apparently it is not the *number* of templates, but the amount of HTML generated by those templates, that is the issue, and this map is huge. So if frietjes's version is streamlined in any way, that would be very helpful!-- phoebe / (talk to me) 23:02, 6 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

And yes no more numbering is awesome! Thanks frietjes! -- phoebe / (talk to me) 23:03, 6 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Just to nitpick, its not the amount of html - its the amount of wikitext generated after all templates are expanded but before they're turned into html. Essentially, its the size of https://wiki.riteme.site/w/index.php?action=raw&templates=expand&ctype=text/css&title=Template:George_Floyd_protests_map . Bawolff (talk) 00:07, 7 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for explaining this.

ɱ

(talk) 00:11, 7 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

That's nice. I can't stand updating the five numbers for every city. If this could solve the unwieldiness issue, all the better. Kire1975 (talk) 02:24, 7 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

now updated. as pointed out, this won't fix the html expand size, but will make it easier to update. please let me know if this created any new problems. Frietjes (talk) 16:32, 9 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The map is killing the article!!!

Hi all, see the discussion I started here: talk:List_of_George_Floyd_protests_in_the_United_States#The_map_and_article_size -- phoebe / (talk to me) 23:22, 6 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

nb: for now, I have added a (crappy, hopefully soon to be improved) static screenshot of the map and a link to the expanded map from here, so it will stop killing the article in the short term while we figure out code/city cutoff/other hackery. -- phoebe / (talk to me) 00:00, 7 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Same problem at George Floyd protests in California. Triggers the template include size exceeded error. I commented out the map until a solution is found. Levivich ^{[dubious – discuss]} 20:55, 25 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Using commons Data namespace

So it looks like the map is too large and that's causing problems. Its seems like there's a loop hole in the size rules, where if you stuff from the Commons data namespace it doesn't count towards size. So maybe we should do that. downside is then data is at another wiki, and I'm not sure how fast edits to it actually update. Anyways, it would look like:

Other way to display

and would have to be edited at commons:Data:George_Floyd_protests.map. As you can see from the resource usage report, this section of the talk page takes 0 bytes of post-expand size (although that'd be different if in a template, it will still be very small) and 0 seconds of lua, which are the resources in short supply on the article. Thoughts. Bawolff (talk) 23:57, 6 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Okay so now this data is in three places? This template, a new Map of George Floyd protests, and commons:Data:George_Floyd_protests.map? How many of these use the new syntax? I think Commons should be the eventual place to host this, per the above, larger or unlimited data size? $ɱ$ (talk) 00:06, 7 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I just copied the version of the template at the time (Direct copied and pasted from &action=raw&templates=expand). AFAIK, commons doesn't support any fancy lua stuff for this, so it has to use raw syntax. Unless, its decided to actually switch over, i think the commons version should probably be considered a proof-of-concept, and we re-copy it over from the last version of the template, once/if we finally decide to switch. Bawolff (talk) 00:11, 7 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Makes sense. I suppose the Commons version is difficult for average users to contribute to. Shame it lacks that Wikipedia function, though Wikipedia somehow lacks Commons' data storage capability? I suppose static screenshots of the map will suffice until the protests are over then, and then switch to this?

ɱ

(talk) 00:15, 7 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Or @Frietjes: will your changed syntax version work? Would be preferable to a static map image.

ɱ

(talk) 00:34, 7 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Ɱ: I don't think that'll fix it, the expanded size is comparable. Mouthpity (talk) 11:19, 7 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Are State and Country necessary?

It's a map. The state and country being visible in the name is not necessary. If someone really feels strongly about separating locations that have the same names can we at least hide the differentiation in code? "Belfast, N. Ireland" is long and looks silly since it's right on top of a big map of Northern Ireland. Kire1975 (talk) 03:23, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed, this has bugged me a little too. The state or country could be listed in hidden comments like are used for "int'l" now. $ɱ$ (talk) 03:32, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Numberguy6: all discusion about ISO codes started here and here should be continued on the talk page here. Two people have already agreed that the name of the city should be the only visible label on the pins since the name of the country is already on the map below the pin. The ISO codes that you refer to are redundant. cc: @Phoebe:@Ɱ: Kire1975 (talk) 19:52, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The reason that I added state and country codes was for cities with the same name. The reason I did it for all cities was in case we needed to add a new city, and it would be easier to tell if that city was already there. Also, I use ISO 3166-1 alpha-3 codes for foreign countries for the sake of brevity. --Numberguy6 (talk) 20:40, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I also put state and country in so that users can easily make a map of a specific region if they want. --Numberguy6 (talk) 22:17, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Numberguy6: @Kire1975: changing to |Belfast <> NIR <> (coords) could handle this (removing codes from pins + filtering), though it'd need small changes in Module:Mapframe/simple as well. Mouthpity (talk)

Bleh. The same code works on the sandbox, but not on the map proper. Any ideas? Mouthpity (talk) 15:55, 12 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Less than 100

Somehow Hackettstown got on the list but the only protest there recorded on George_Floyd_protests_in_New_Jersey#Hackettstown had "dozens" of attendees. I put it there a week ago and nothing has been updated sing. I have deleted it off the map, but now I am imagining how many other protests smaller than 100 have been added to the map indiscriminately. Do we really nead to put a link to the source quoting the numbers in a hidden text on the page? I'm thinking maybe. Kire1975 (talk) 19:24, 9 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Crosscheck with grassroots map

Found this map linked — if anyone has the time, it may be worth cross-checking with. Mouthpity (talk) 13:14, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Good call, this is also a good project to check out. AnarchistiCookie (talk) 16:14, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Found another comprehensive list to cross-check from the New York Times at the bottom of thes page. Kire1975 (talk) 03:43, 19 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Neighborhoods

There have been multiple attempts to add neighborhoods of New York City and San Diego. I disagree with this; since neighborhoods are not defined by the U.S. Census Bureau, they have no formal definition. Also, protests very frequently take place at the boundaries of neighborhoods (major roads). --Numberguy6 (talk) 20:54, 13 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Neighborhoods are reported in reliable sources. The U.S. Census Bureau is an arbitrary choice. The first time it was mentioned on this talk page is in your comment almost three weeks after they started. Los Angeles Neighborhoods have also been added. Do not delete them and please put back the neighborhoods you removed because you felt like it. Big cities are massive. New York City consists of five boroughs which are also individual counties in themselves. Multiple protests are being held all over many cities every day now. You are going to need more than just personal disagreement to keep this decision you made permanent. Kire1975 (talk) 03:54, 14 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Cities also occur on the boundaries of cities, so what? If a protest with a 100+ people marched were at one place at 2 o'clock and march to another by 4 o'clock, they both have had protests with 100+ people in them and both should get a marker on the map. I'm all for putting markers on parks, bridges, undesignated census areas that have had protests of 100+ people in them. Why aren't you? Kire1975 (talk) 03:56, 14 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

How is the U.S. Census Bureau arbitrary? It is the best consistent nationwide standard, and every city has different neighborhood definitions. Also, while protests can occur on city boundaries, that is uncommon, while it is common with neighborhoods. Also also, neighborhoods have multiple layers. Where do we draw the line? --Numberguy6 (talk) 04:12, 14 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It's completely arbitrary. The reliable sources are reporting the protests with numbers where they are happening. Period. Why do you have a problem with that? Los Angeles is 500 square miles. San Diego is 374 square miles. New York city is 302 square miles. You need to state your reasons making it look like those cities have had the same amount of protests as one small town with one protest that had 101 people in it. The burden is on you to state your reasons. Kire1975 (talk) 04:38, 14 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Protest sizes are still highly variable, even if neighborhoods are included. For example, Kahului had 150 protestors, while Reykjavík had more than 3,000 protestors; however, both places have had only one major protest, and therefore could only be represented by one marker. I think it would be better to change the size of the markers to reflect the combined number of protestors in that jurisdiction. Also, I still don't understand how the U.S. Census Bureau is arbitrary.--Numberguy6 (talk) 16:37, 14 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

You need to show that the U.S. Census Bureau is not arbitrary. Reliable sources are reporting locations of protests. They are being accepted onto the "US list, International list, or one of the state/location-specific articles linked from the topic template" that we are being asked to use for confirmation in the pre-flight checklist. There is nothing else to discuss. cc: @Phoebe: @Mouthpity: @Ravimdholakia: @Ɱ: @Frietjes: Kire1975 (talk) 17:30, 14 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

One thing to be aware of is that eg for LA, Boston and similar cities, there are dozens of protests happening in the greater metropolitan area, which may or may not be the same city (EG Boston & Cambridge are two cities, but may be reported both as 'greater Boston'). I agree strongly with listing NYC Boroughs separately; these are distinct units of government/counties, and have each received independent coverage. I'm not sure about neighborhoods of SD or other cities. -- phoebe / (talk to me) 17:33, 14 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with listing NYC boroughs separately, but not neighborhoods within boroughs. --Numberguy6 (talk) 19:00, 14 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Here are 3 articles describing the same incident:

"200 Arrested in 2nd Day of Violent NYC Protests Against Police Brutality Over George Floyd Death". NBC New York. Retrieved 2020-06-05.
Pozarycki, Robert (2020-06-06). "BREAKING: NYPD suspends two cops for attacks on protesters in Brooklyn". amNewYork. Archived from the original on June 6, 2020. Retrieved 2020-06-06.
Southall, Ashley (June 9, 2020). "Officer Who Violently Shoved Protester in Brooklyn to Face Charges". New York Times. Archived from the original on June 9, 2020. Retrieved June 9, 2020.

One of the articles lists it as "New York City", while the other two list it as "Brooklyn". If this incident was reported on by a local Brooklyn newspaper, then the neighborhood would likely be in the headline. --Numberguy6 (talk) 18:50, 14 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Also, even if we agree that NYC neighborhoods should be listed separately, how do we determine whether or not other cities should have neighborhoods listed? For example, San Francisco and Detroit both have significant populations and noticeable distinct neighborhood cultural identities, but neither of them have published official neighborhood maps. By contrast, Fremont, California has an official neighborhood map with 29 neighborhoods; as a Fremont resident, I can tell you that everybody is aware of where major neighborhoods are, but nobody identifies as being "from their neighborhood", and there are no noticeable cultural distinctions between neighborhoods. In both of these cases, reliable sources have published neighborhood locations. --Numberguy6 (talk) 19:00, 14 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

We haven't determined that neighborhoods, CDPs, parks or bridges shouldn't be listed separately. Protests with 100 plus people in them reported in reliable sources is the criteria. Sticking to that does not change the balance of the map in any way. It only represents what has been happening more accurately. If you want to make changes in this regard, there are procedures to follow. Kire1975 (talk) 21:10, 14 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Most news sources about protests give the exact location, so we could theoretically divide it up further than neighborhoods, into census tracts. But we don't, because census tracts are simply too numerous. Also, if you look at San Jose, California on Google Maps, you will see many tiny neighborhoods, the smallest with only a few dozen residents. The point is that people who are not from a city are far less familiar with neighborhoods, and so it would help if we didn't include them, and instead used another way to indicate the magnitude of protests, such as marker size or the title. --Numberguy6 (talk) 22:18, 14 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

People who are adding locations to the map are often not familiar with the larger municipality it is subdivided from and so add them in good faith. Your removal of them for arbitrary reasons and your failure to seek consensus is disruptive WP:DISRUPTSIGNS. If a census tract is reported in the reliable source, who cares? Kire1975 (talk) 23:24, 14 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I'm the disruptive editor? I was the one who started this discussion, and I never said that there was no point in arguing. Anyway, whether or not an edit is in good faith is only relevant for the actions taken against the editor. It is not relevant for whether the edit should be un-done. I think that both of our points are in good faith. --Numberguy6 (talk) 23:43, 14 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This discussion was started when you deleted dozens of neighborhoods from the map for no legitimate reason. Then you reverted an editor who gave reasons for his edit: "Omitting these protests is not representative of the vast number of protests occuring in New York City". You claim you wanted to discuss the matter on the talk page but you don't acknowledge Ravimdholakia's reasons or anybody else's. You're holding onto the idea that this map is about cities not protests. You demand that we accept that markers be allowed only on cities recognized first by the U.S. Census Bureau and then by the UN but you don't provide a link to where these agencies recognize these standards. You disregard other people's requests for explanations. You disregard other people's explanations. You reject community input. You delete reliably sourced material. You don't accept that neighborhoods are recognized by Wikipedia (see PS below). You're driving away productive editors. Why should we put any effort into adding markers onto the map when you are going to arbitrarily deletely massive reams of data for your own arbitrary reasons. Asking "why is it arbitrary" is not a defense to being arbitrary. The burden is upon you to prove that it isn't arbitrary and you have disregarded that question multiple times. Look, people are dying at these rallies. They're putting their lives on the line. They shouldn't be represented on the map because the U.S. Census Bureau is more authoritative than Wikipedia and otherwise reliable sources? Now you get defensive, using italics when the question about disruptive editing arises and you misrepresent the beginning of this series of events. Yes you are disruptive. Get over it and stop taking the rest of us here hostage. 11:39, 15 June 2020 (UTC)

Since you asked, here is a link to a bunch of Census Bureau maps showing cities, towns, townships, and villages: [3]. Also, I never said that reliable sources weren't reliable; the issue wasn't over "Did a protest happen there?", but over "Should the location be considered a full-fledged location for the purposes of this map, or is it already covered by another location?" Also, you said that I don't respond to any community input. That is wrong; I initially opposed all neighborhood inclusion, but then I changed my view to support including neighborhoods that were part of cities that had official neighborhood maps. --Numberguy6 (talk) 22:30, 15 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Again. You DO NOT have the authority to exclude protests as long as a reliable source reports them having 100+ members in them. Whether they be in neighborhoods, parks, bridges, piers, intersections in the middle of nowhere. You DO NOT get to decide what "official" means in any way. Your WP:OWNBEHAVIOR is driving away productive editors. Knock it off. Kire1975 (talk) 22:47, 15 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

PS: List of neighborhoods in Detroit, List of neighborhoods in San Francisco Kire1975 (talk) 21:13, 14 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I will accept the listing of neighborhoods on the map if you can present a consistent definition of "neighborhood" that is valid for every place in the United States. --Numberguy6 (talk) 00:06, 15 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

My proposed requirement is that the municipal government has to have published an official neighborhood map. --Numberguy6 (talk) 00:24, 15 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Here is my full proposal for the definition of "location" that encompasses the entire world, not just the United States:

The location's borders must be clearly and officially defined by either a UN member state or an entity that is recognized by a UN member state.
The location may not have a sub-location within it. (e.g. US counties don't count)
The location must have a name as opposed to just a number (e.g. US Census Tracts don't count)

Do you accept it? --Numberguy6 (talk) 01:54, 15 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

What gives Numberguy6 the authority to accept, reject or define anything here? Not WP:OWNERSHIP Kire1975 (talk) 02:47, 15 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

When I said "Do you accept it?", I meant "Do you agree with it?". I apologize for using bad diction. --Numberguy6 (talk) 03:59, 15 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Here are my thoughts:

Numberguy6, I realize you may be trying to standardize this whole process in a way that makes the most sense to you, but in all honesty it is frustrating and frankly overbearing and disruptive. This is a group effort. From reading the rest of these posts you should realize that you are not in the majority, I'm sorry.

Now, for definitions of neighborhoods: I believe that as long as a record exists of a 100+ participant protest, and the location doesn't exist already, it deserves to be on the map. Most neighborhoods are very well defined. I'd suggest maybe looking on Google maps; in most cases it will outline the borders of the neighborhood in red. I know this is true for most NYC neighborhoods. City parks, where many of these protests occur, are also well-defined.

In addition, we should absolutely add San Francisco, San Diego, Chicago, Los Angeles neighborhoods if there is ample documentation.

Thanks all.- Ravimdholakia (talk) 13:56, 15 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

What are your proposed criteria for inclusion? NYC has never published an official neighborhood map. Also, Google Maps is not a good authority, because in Manhattan alone, there are multiple examples of overlapping neighborhoods (Hell's Kitchen & the Garment District), neighborhoods without borders (West Harlem), and areas without neighborhoods (the area in between the Flatiron District and Koreatown). --Numberguy6 (talk) 16:46, 15 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

What is your problem dude? Neighborhoods in New York City Protests are being reported at park, bridges, piers, Census Designated Places. You don't have the authority to ask for inclusion criteria. It's not your map. Kire1975 (talk) 22:11, 15 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

There are generally accepted borders of NYC neighborhoods (I've lived in NYC most of my life), and I'd refer you to a really fascinating map made by someone (I can't figure out who) on google maps^[1]. The creator acknowledges that a few neighborhoods are subsections of others, but I doubt that it would create too much of a problem for the map. It's not an exact science, but we should do the best we can while monitoring the map for obvious abuse. The page on manhattan neighborhoods gives a pretty good explanation on neighborhood borders, but I believe that most people who are adding NYC neighborhoods will know the basic boundaries. In addition, Streeteasy^[2] and RentHop^[3] (NYC-based websites to find apartments), as well as the generalized map of regions of the city for the NYC Department of City Planning^[4] have very similar maps. - Ravimdholakia (talk) 19:09, 15 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I am going to stop contributing to this map, simply because I don't want this situation to escalate further. --Numberguy6 (talk) 00:40, 16 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Numberguy6: Great. More work for others restoring the damage you've done. You've misrepresented so many other statements, I wish I could believe you. Kire1975 (talk) 00:55, 16 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

References

Do counter-protesters count?

Hi folks. This incident in Bethel, Ohio was a protest of 80 to 100 BLM protesters so it doesn't warrant a spot on the map, but when 700 counter-protesters showed up the number went well over the requirement. I think it belongs on the map because the counter-protesters wouldn't have been there if it wasn't a protest in the first place, but it's possibly a technicality so I will ask for consensus here first.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Kire1975 (talk • contribs)

Against. If you're interested in this data, a separate of large counter-protests may be a better place? Mouthpity (talk) 08:49, 19 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Shetland Islands?

In Shetland there was a protest of "several hundred" protesters, though all socially distancing and with no central march or gathering - people protested all across the isles. Would this be eligible for the map?

Well, I've added it anyway - if there's any issue with it let me know.— 🐗 Griceylipper (✉️) 21:15, 5 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Trouble adding

I'd like to add Selah, Washington (covered in NY Times today, number of protesters attested by Yakima Herald) but I can't follow the instrucitons. I don't know what "the Geo Hack" page is or how to get there. The coordinates to add are: 46°39′8″N 120°32′6″W

~~Maybe somebody can help? -Pete Forsyth (talk) 23:31, 16 July 2020 (UTC)~~[reply]

Never mind, I think I figured it out. I'll tweak the instructions a bit. -Pete Forsyth (talk) 23:37, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Cohelmsford?

With this edit, I'm blanking Cohelmsford from the map because there doesn't appear to be any such town name in the world, the jurisdiction filter says GB-ENG, the coordinates are in Germany and also because the town is not listed in George Floyd protests in the United Kingdom, George Floyd protests in Germany or anywhere else really. Anybody got a source to back it up? Is it in England or Germany, closest thing might be Chelmsford but that coudl be UK or Massachusetts. Kire1975 (talk) 05:22, 15 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Data moved to Commons

This was discussed above (#Using commons Data namespace), but wasn't done at the time. It's been several months since then and changes have slowed considerably, so I've moved the map data to Commons to solve the performance issues. Template documentation is updated, but to summarize: to edit the map data, this file on Commons must be changed: commons:Data:George Floyd protests.map. It's unfortunately a bit more annoying to edit than this template was, but it can still be done (in source mode, just follow the existing structure to add a new point).

There is one additional wrinkle: most articles like George Floyd protests in California are using a version of the map filtered to include points only within a particular region. This was previously done with Lua, so we only had to maintain one list, but there's no way I can find to do that with the Commons-based map data. So, instead, there is an additional version of the map for each jurisdiction, controlled by the |jurisdiction= parameter. For example, |jurisdiction=California uses commons:Data:George Floyd protests/California.map instead. So if you're adding a new point, you'll need to edit both maps. Sorry about this.

I've created jurisdiction maps for every instance where |jurisdiction_filter= was being used before: see the full list.

If you have any questions or suggestions, let me know. — The Earwig (talk) 08:50, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The Earwig (talk), a bit more annoying? I'd say. If you know how to figure it out, can you add Glencoe, Minnesota (~150) to the map there please? Thank you. Kire1975 (talk) 18:11, 18 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Kire1975: Done, see here and here. The maps may take a little while to update due to caching that is out of our control. — The Earwig (talk) 18:40, 18 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The Earwig (talk), hello again. That commons map is totally confusing still. Can you add Tijuana to the list? The citations that are needed are here. I'd love to be able to do this myself. Is there a tutorial for all that new code somewhere? Kire1975 (talk) 03:45, 17 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Kire1975, I've added Tijuana in this edit. I understand your frustration with editing the map data. I'm not sure if we have a good beginner tutorial for this stuff; it took me a while to figure it out when I first set it up. At mw:Help:Map Data and GeoJSON you can find some general info about how map data is stored on Commons, but I'm not sure this will be very helpful. I will try to give a walkthrough. Basically to add a point you have to add a new block of text to the page at Commons like this:

Map data code

            {
                "type": "Feature",
                "geometry": {
                    "coordinates": [
                        LONGITUDE,
                        LATITUDE
                    ],
                    "type": "Point"
                },
                "properties": {
                    "marker-size": "small",
                    "marker-color": "5E74F3",
                    "title": "NAME OF CITY",
                    "marker-symbol": "city"
                }
            },

This can be added near the top of the page, right after the line that looks like "features": [ (currently line 12).

Then you can fill in the LONGITUDE, LATITUDE, and NAME OF CITY fields. Nothing else needs to be changed. The longitude and latitude should be given as decimal numbers which can be found by clicking on the coordinates in the city's article. For example, from Tijuana, above the infobox there is a link to GeoHack which has the coordinates (-117.03 and 32.53, rounded to two decimal places) at the top right. — The Earwig (talk) 05:07, 18 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

User:The Earwig, I just tried to add La Mesa, California but it says "The document contains errors. Are you sure you want to publish?" Doesn't say what the errors are. Thanks for trying to help in the past. Kire1975 (talk) 23:01, 9 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Kire1975, if you could paste the full text of the map data you were trying to save after your addition, I can point out the error. For example you could save it here: User:The Earwig/Sandbox/Map. — The Earwig (talk) 04:12, 10 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

La Mesa is still not on the map. I don't know why I didn't see this 10 months ago. I added the code to your sandbox map. Thanks User:The Earwig. Kire1975 (talk) 19:00, 12 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This is my latest edit. The popup said "The document contains errors" again but I don't know what the errors were. Kire1975 (talk) 19:04, 12 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Kire1975, that's strange. I'm seeing it on the map. Looks like there was already an entry before you added yours, but the coordinates are very slightly different. I'm not sure which one I am seeing. — The Earwig (talk) 00:55, 14 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

[1] ttps://www.9and10news.com/2020/06/01/sault-ste-marie-protesters-show-support-for-national-movement/

[2] ttps://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?mid=1_gsxJNfmcGZI4ZL_7LnEHj72YpvgNq-w&hl=en&ll=40.70164995435779%2C-73.94793983378037&z=11

[3] ttps://streeteasy.com/

[4] ttps://www.renthop.com/

[5] ttps://web.archive.org/web/20090306125013/http://nyc.gov/html/dcp/pdf/neighbor/neighbor.pdf

[1]

[1]

[2]

[3]

[4]