Template talk:Chinese yuan

Ambiguity with Japanese Yen

There is a discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Japan#Currency templates about how to disambiguation between "¥" for Japanese yen and "CN¥" for Chinese yuan. Please feel free to contribute on that page.  Stepho  talk  09:58, 12 October 2014 (UTC)

RMB is a more common form than CN¥. This template should use RMB rather than CN¥, which it used prior to your change.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 23:11, 30 November 2014 (UTC)

You participated in the discussion about this (which has been archived at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Japan/Archive/November_2014#Currency templates). You saw that there was no consensus to change. You saw that there was also little support for "RMB" except from yourself. If you want to make such a major change to the template then please reopen the discussion before unilaterally changing the template. I will revert your recent changes. If you reopen the discussion then I will be happy to follow whatever consensus is reached.  Stepho  talk  02:44, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

You are literally the only person who cares. So here's the official discussion: No one uses the yen/yuan symbol when discussing the Chinese curency. It is almost unilaterally known as the Renminbi. Common usage trumps official pedantry.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 03:11, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

If I am the only person who cares, then surely it would be my choice. But I'm assuming that you also care, so there are at least two people who care. And in the previous discussion there were also comments from Margin1522 (talk · contribs), benlisquare (talk · contribs), Prosperosity (talk · contribs) and 日本穣 (talk · contribs), bringing the known total to six. In that discussion, only you were in favour of 'RMB', benlisquare and myself gave counterpoints about why it wasn't preferred and the others said nothing about it.

I lived in Hong Kong for 6 years. During that time I made many trips into mainland China. My memory is that most places used the Chinese character 元 in Chinese text, ¥ or $ in English text and CNY in financial businesses (banks, currency exchanges, etc). 'RMB' was used a modest amount in Hong Kong because HK people also write 元 for the HK dollar in Chinese text. But in case my memory is faulty, I double checked with a recent immigrant from China and he agreed with me that 'RMB' is little used in China itself.

The currency is indeed known as the RenMinBi (literally "people's money", which is what HK people call it in English). However, the units are the yuan (also spoken as kwai), jiao (a tenth of a yuan) and the fen (a hundreth of a yuan). RenMinBi covers all 3, so it makes no sense to say RMB 1.5 (1.5 of which unit?) but ¥1.5 makes perfect sense because the unit is specified.

I will agree that the currency is unilaterally called the RenMinBi. But if you want to say that 'RMB' is unilaterally displayed on shops signs then the onus is on you to prove it with references.  Stepho  talk  12:59, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

Yes, but how often is CN¥ used in regards to the renminbi? Our article seems to show that the RMB abbreviation is in use even if it isn't the ISO code for the currency.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 19:27, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

An article about renminbi and yuan here supports Stepho in that it is technically wrong to say 10 renminbi, but correct to say 10 yuan. However, it also says that in financial circles "renminbi" (RMB) is often preferred over "yuan" (CNY), so common usage may trump what's technically correct. I should say that I have seen both RMB and CNY being used, and can't tell which is more common. I don't actually remember seeing the CN¥ symbol being used in English language newspapers for yuan, so can't comment on that (¥ seems to almost invariably referred to Japanese yen). Since we are talking about English wiki and English usage, what is used in China or Hong Kong is probably irrelevant how it should be used in the English. I suspect in five or ten years time we may have a clearer idea as to which is preferred, so may be it's a matter of wait and see. Hzh (talk) 20:23, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

I do have a solution I wish to propose.

Basic use abbreviation

{{CNY}} produces ¥ RMB (simple currency abbreviation)

{{CNY|123.45}} produces ¥123.45 RMB

Basic abbreviation w/link

{{CNY|link=yes}} produces ¥ RMB (simple currency article link)

{{CNY|123.45|link=yes}} produces ¥123.45 RMB

Verbal disambiguation

{{CNY|123.45|long=yes}} produces ¥123.45 Renminbi

{{CNY|123.45|long=yes|link=yes}} produces ¥123.45 Renminbi

Suppress "RMB"

{{CNY|123.45|long=no}} produces ¥123.45

{{CNY|123.45|long=no|link=yes}} produces ¥123.45

ISO code

{{CNY|123.45|ISO=yes}} produces 123.45 CNY

In this style, ¥ is more easily understood to mean yuan by appending the amount with "RMB" or "Renminbi", with an option for suppressing "RMB" in contexts where it is clear Renminbi is meant. This is based on the coding I have proposed for sterling. TheCurrencyGuy (talk) 15:56, 9 August 2022 (UTC)

Undiscussed and seemingly uninformed move of template

I have asked HouseBlaster to revert their very controversial move and seek consensus here first. 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 23:30, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

Requested move 8 September 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved. For Template:CNY, moved to Template:Chinese yuan. (closed by non-admin page mover) SilverLocust 💬 06:01, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

---

• Template:CNY → Template:Chinese renminbi
• Template:CHF → Template:Swiss franc
• Template:CZK → Template:Czech koruna
• Template:EGP → Template:Egyptian pound
• Template:GBP → Template:Pound sterling
• Template:IDR → Template:Indonesian rupiah
• Template:ILS → Template:Israeli new shekel
• Template:JPY → Template:Japanese yen
• Template:NOK → Template:Norwegian krone
• Template:NZD → Template:New Zealand dollar
• Template:PLN → Template:Polish złoty
• Template:SEK → Template:Swedish krona
• Template:SGD → Template:Singapore dollar
• Template:TTD → Template:Trinidad and Tobago dollar
• Template:ZAR → Template:South African rand
• Template:MYR → Template:Malaysian ringgit

– Because JMF objected to this move on my talk page at User talk:HouseBlaster#Undiscussed and seemingly uninformed move of template:CNY, I am starting an RM. Per WP:TG, Template function should be clear from the template name, but redirects can be created to assist everyday use of very popular templates. For people who are unfamiliar with ISO 4217 (i.e. the vast majority of people), the function of the template is very much not clear from the template name – clearly violating TG. Therefore, we should expand the name per WP:TG and keep redirects from the ISO 4217 names. (There are also plenty of templates in Category:Currency templates which use the spelled-out name, so this rename is nothing out of the ordinary. See, for instance, {{Philippine peso}} and {{Pakistani Rupee}}.) Finally, people can continue to use the template shortcuts and such links would be WP:NOTBROKEN. Best, HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 00:29, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

My personal preference is for the ISO 4217 form. But I used to work in the banking industry. I'm not strongly against the long form and I do recognise your point for the majority of people.  Stepho  talk  01:20, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose first page move, support others Honestly for the first page, i would refer the new template name to be as Template:Chinese yuan (the redlinked page could redirected to Template:Chinese renminbi as well because it isn't yet created as a redirect) because i think most people refer the Chinese currency as "Yuan" instead of Renminbi, which is mostly unknown except for official purposes. Other than that, no question regarding the other currency's template page move. 103.111.100.82 (talk) 02:43, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

  As proposer, I support Template:Chinese yuan (equal preference with Template:Chinese renminbi). HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 23:01, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

• Strongly oppose all moves It is important to recall the purpose of these templates, which is to format presentation appropriately. This includes fetching the relevant currency symbol. Using the standard foreign exchange three letter acronym makes them quick and easy to use. Converting to a long-winded form is irritating, counter-productive and unnecessary.

(Btw, the currency of China is Renminbi but the unit of account is the yuan. Likewise the currency of the UK is Sterling but the unit of account is the pound. This distinction is important.) 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 09:15, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

• Support various moves; I support the first move to either Template:Chinese renmibi or Template:Chinese yuan. The content guideline on template naming is clear that Template function should be clear from the template name. While there aren't no users who will readily recognize over a dozen different ISO 4217 off the top of the head, I think it's more common for an editor to know a currency or unit name but not necessarily the abbreviation. As such, it's more in line with the guideline to spell out the names in full. That way, a user who is using the Visual Editor and is trying to keyword search for a template will find what they're looking for when they type in, say, "Japanese yen". As for the concern that using the full names makes the template names too long, the guideline goes on to note that redirects can be created to assist everyday use of very popular templates. Even with the templates moved to full-names, the ISO 4217 abbreviations will still exist as redirects to the new template page, and will still therefore still work as OP notes, so there's no loss of speed for editors familiar with the abbreviations who continue to use them. Hydrangeans (she/her | talk | edits) 10:17, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
  • Although I am unconvinced that anyone unfamiliar with the conventional TLAs would ever want to use these templates in the first place, I recognise the template naming convention and the redirection facility (even though 99.99% of invocations will still use the TLA form, so it just reads to me as uniformity for the sake of uniformity). But if the consensus is in favour of change, it must be to Template:Chinese yuan. Anyone who thinks it should be Template:Chinese renmibi must also propose that template:GBP be moved to Template:British sterling. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 10:40, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

    The difference being, the articles are at Renminbi and Pound sterling, not Chinese yuan (or yuan) and British sterling. Gonnym (talk) 13:49, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

    Which shows only that a Common Name in one context is not necessarily the Common Name in another. WP:other stuff exists. In foreign exchange, the terms commonly used are "British pounds" and "Chinese yuan", although the disambiguating adjective is only needed in the case of pounds.

    Arguably, if consistency is important, pound sterling should be renamed British pound or Sterling (currency), but of course that won't happen. But that is not a good reason why the error should be propagated into the name of the template. 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 14:22, 9 September 2024 (UTC) revised 15:42, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

Support all moves away from 3 letter template names per the guideline at WP:TPN. Also, many of these 3 letter words are ambiguous (see CHF as an example) so moving away from an ambiguous name is also preferable. Gonnym (talk) 12:10, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.