Template:Did you know nominations/Roderich Kreile

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Panyd^{The muffin is not subtle} 17:34, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

Roderich Kreile

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~~... that Roderich Kreile (pictured), leading the Dresdner Kreuzchor as the 28th Kreuzkantor after the Reformation, recorded musik by Gottfried August Homilius, the 15th Kreuzkantor?~~

Created/expanded by Dr. Blofeld (talk), Gerda Arendt (talk). Nominated by Gerda Arendt (talk) at 14:06, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

Translation & improvement of an article from de.wikipedia. The length is fine. The editors have added numerous citations and references for further reading. I think the hook is good, but could use some editing for readers who don't know what a Kreuzkantor is, or when the Reformation occurred. I'll suggest something below. I recommend the article for DYK in its present state, but offer some remarks for possible improvements. Thus while I certainly agree that the article's subject is quite notable, it may be difficult for some readers to quickly grasp this. Perhaps some journalistic references could be added; see Dresdner Kreuzkantor Roderich Kreile verlängert Vertrag. Also, the external link to bachcantatas.com is translated/edited by Aryeh Oron in June 2012; a more complete citation seems appropriate.

ALT1 ... that Roderich Kreile (pictured), the 28th leader of the Boys' Choir of the Church of the Cross in Dresden, has recorded the music of Gottfried August Homilius (1714–1785), the Choir's 15th leader? Easchiff (talk) 03:55, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for looking and for your hints to improve the article. I wonder if we can omit the "after the Reformation" part, because that makes it wrong in a way, there were leaders in the several hundred years before the reformation, only nobody counted them. Assuming we can, I propose to explain what Kreuzkantor is, but give a choir with 700 years tradition and its church their real names, well known in the world:

ALT2 ... that Roderich Kreile (pictured), the 28th leader of the boys' choir Dresdner Kreuzchor of the Kreuzkirche in Dresden, has recorded the music of Gottfried August Homilius (1714–1785), the choir's 15th leader? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:27, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

ALT2 looks very good to me. I think exactness regarding how to start the Kreuzkantor count works against hooking readers. The article itself is clear. I think the hook will read better if Dresdner Kreuzchor is in italics. Nearly all readers will need to infer that Kreuzkirche is a church from the fact that it has a choir, but I'm happy to leave that to the discretion of others. Easchiff (talk) 12:33, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

For less inferring (+ there's a link):

ALT3 ~~... that Roderich Kreile (pictured), the 28th counted cantor at Dresden's Kreuzkirche, leading the boys' choir Dresdner Kreuzchor, recorded music by Gottfried August Homilius, the 15th cantor?~~

yes, that's more accurate, and I'm glad to learn that cantor has this meaning in English. I'd delete "counted", and would shorten the last clause to read "led the boys' choir Dresdner Kreuzchor in recording the music of Gottfried ..." Easchiff (talk) 03:02, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

I like the idea. Teach me language,why "the music", it suggests "all of his music" to me. We could say precisely "cantatas" or "cantatas for Pentecost" or "a Passion" or "the St John Passion" or any combination, but it seems a bit like overloading ;) (btw, in the ref, should I mention just the year? - the name of the translator seems not so much needed to me, - if we mention him here we should also include his name in hundreds of other articles, 3 times in any normal Bach cantata, once in many singer bios and other works ...)

ALT4 ... that Roderich Kreile (pictured), the 28th cantor at Dresden's Kreuzkirche, led the boys' choir Dresdner Kreuzchor in recording music by Gottfried August Homilius, the 15th cantor? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:54, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

I think ALT4 is "good to go". About "the music": I hear that as implying "some of the music", but this gets us into subtleties of style and ambiguity. About citing translators: I'll put a note on your talk page in a bit. Cheers, Easchiff (talk) 12:32, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

Thank you, - strike the others for clarity, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:47, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

Tick copied from above for clarity. ALT4 agreed to. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 09:17, 8 September 2012 (UTC)