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The following discussion is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: rejected by  — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:45, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
Close paraphrasing

Problem-solving courts in the United States

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Created/expanded by Mgreason (talk). Self nom at 10:00, 11 April 2012 (UTC)

  • Does this need 'In the United States' somewhere? Secretlondon (talk) 17:39, 30 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Yes. Changed title to reflect this. Mgrē@sŏn 18:58, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
  • ALT1... that American problem-solving courts offer an alternative to prison, are intended to reduce the percentage of reoffenders?
  • There is a "WorldWideView" banner that needs to be dealt with on this page. -- Esemono (talk) 00:46, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
    • "WorldWideView" banner has been removed.Mgrē@sŏn 12:34, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
  • I think this is the proper tick, as the issue may be dealt with in a reasonable time. Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:55, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
  • Article's title was changed to reflect just the United States view. Review needs to be limited to this subject. Mgrē@sŏn 12:42, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
  • I think there are some other issues:
  • The opinions described in the "criticism" section are not attributed to anyone.

I disagree. I have provided the source for each of the points in the article's criticism section. Article: "Because judges have total discretion, the results can be inconsistent. When that situation existed in the criminal justice system, mandatory sentencing guidelines were instituted."
Source: "In the past, when judges have been given so much discretion in the way they handle cases, the results have been uneven, so uneven that they led to the imposition of strict sentencing guidelines in some courts as a way to restore consistency."

Article: "Judges may also force their personal values upon defendents with divergent backgrounds."
Source: "And some legal scholars have raised concerns about judges - who are mostly middle class and often politically connected - imposing some of their personal values on people from very different backgrounds."


Article: "Those critical of the system say many treatment programs are unnecessarily harsh, and any deviation from the rules is punished."
Source: "Because while these courts may seem kind, even lenient, critics say, in practice they are unduly harsh" "...if he was late to anger-management class even by five minutes, he would be locked out of the program, and if he failed the program, the full assault charge would be reinstated."


Article: "Judges in problem-solving courts need other skills beyond a knowledge of the law. They sometimes wear the hat of a social worker, therapist, and accountant. Law schools have only recently begun to provide courses on problem-solving justice, and not all judges have the patience and attitude necessary to be effective."
Source: "Judge Madhavan...is also "part social worker, part therapist, part lawyer," he said. "I wear many hats." (Including, reluctantly, the green eyeshade of an accountant while poring over tangled rent records.)" "Problem-Solving Justice: Courts as Agents of Social Change was first piloted at Fordham Law School in 2005 in a class co-taught by Valerie Raine, Center for Court Innovation, and the Hon. Susan Knipps, supervising judge of New York County Family Court." "But asking every judge in the system to take on all those roles - and all that work - seems like a stretch. Fern A. Fisher, the administrative judge whose brainchild the homelessness program is, said that all the Civil Court judges have the legal knowledge to do it. But, she noted delicately, "Some people are more equipped to problem-solve than others."


  • "The first book to describe the problem-solving court movement in detail, Good Courts features profiles of Center demonstration projects. The book is being used in law schools and public policy schools, thanks in part to a law school course on problem-solving justice that the Center piloted at Fordham Law School." The source given for those claims does not actually say that.

You are correct. It came from a book review on the Center for Court Innovation website.<:ref>"Research/Good Courts: The Case for Problem-Solving Justice". Center for Court Innovation. Retrieved 10 May 2012.</ref>


  • Some of the language in the article is rather atypical for Wikipedia: "...she was instrumental in...", "...accurate info...", etc.

Thank you.

  • "Their annual conference offers education and training from experts from around the world" The source doesn't say that.

It should have said, "Their annual conference offers education and training from experts for problem-solving professionals world-wide."

--Carabinieri (talk) 23:47, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
Mgrē@sŏn 17:04, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

  • Those language issues have not been addressed. As to the first issue, I did not say that the "Criticism" section is unsourced. When views are presented in articles, they need to be attributed to the person or group advancing those views in the text itself. That is not the case right now.--Carabinieri (talk) 13:07, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
  • The issue related to sources of criticism has been partially addressed. However, it's not accurate to identify the New York Times as the source of criticism; the Times simply reported concerns expressed by others. The article should indicate who has raised these concerns, and why.
I have attempted to clean up some of the problematic reference citations in the article, but I'm at a loss regarding the reference whose "title" is identified as "Site Has Moved." The URL redirects to this page, but I don't know enough about the intended target to determine what content to look for on that page. --Orlady (talk) 14:39, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
I have rephrased the "atypical language" cited by Carabinieri. I have also added the identity of those critical of PSCs. I am looking at the reference identified as "Site Has Moved". Mgrē@sŏn 15:49, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
That reference came from a block of text copied from Center for Court Innovation.(Attribution given) I will look more closely tonight or tomorrow.Mgrē@sŏn 20:24, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
Resolved problem reference. Mgrē@sŏn 13:03, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
  • Article isn't nearly perfect, but I think it's ready for DYK. --Orlady (talk) 04:21, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
  • Nikkimaria removed this from prep for close paraphrasing concerns. --Orlady (talk) 13:56, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
  • (ec) Close paraphrasing. Compare for example "helps courts and criminal justice agencies aid victims, reduce crime and improve public trust in justice" with "help courts aid victims, reduce crime, and improve public trust in justice". A couple of the examples given above are also a bit close. Nikkimaria (talk) 14:01, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
  • I have reworded the sentence in question, and the sentence, "Judges may also force their personal values upon defendents with divergent backgrounds.", but I don't see close paraphrasing in the other three examples. Mgrē@sŏn 14:55, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
  • Consider the following comparison:
  • "The Center for Court Innovation is a non-profit think tank that works with criminal justice practitioners, community-based organizations, and ordinary citizens to develop creative responses to public safety problems, aid victims, reduce crime, and improve public confidence in justice." (from [1])
  • "She also co-founded the Center for Court Innovation, a non-profit think tank headquartered in New York that helps courts and criminal justice agencies decrease crime, provide aid to victims and increase the public's confidence in the justice system."
Copyvio or not, when the phraseology of an article so closely resembles the phraseology of an organization's mission statement, isn't the article too close to an advertisement for the organization? --Orlady (talk) 15:40, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
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