Template:Did you know nominations/Nandipha Magudumana
- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by PrimalMustelid talk 01:42, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
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Nandipha Magudumana
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that Nandipha Magudumana, a Wits University graduate and celebrity doctor, is imprisoned and investigated 12 crimes including murder connected to a fugitive's prison escape?Source: ref13: Magudumana studied medicine, made Mail & Guardian 200 Young South Africans finalist, and now holds a Bachelor of Health Sciences (BHSc) in Biomedical Sciences and a Bachelor of Medicine and Bachelor of Surgery (MBChB), both from Wits. ref 6 & ref 4: She assisted the convicted criminal to escape from prison. She stole three bodies from morgues in the Free State. Magudumana and Bester plotted to smuggle a body inside Bester's prison cell and set it alight. He faked his death and walked out of the prison disguised in a G4S uniform. ref 8: Magudumana was arrested alongside fugitive boyfriend, Thabo Bester, while heading towards the border of Kenya on April 7, 2023. ref 11: Magudumana is being held in Kroonstad women's correctional centre in Free State.- Reviewed:
Created by Dxneo (talk). Self-nominated at 04:56, 17 March 2024 (UTC). Note: at the time of this nomination, DYK is currently in unreviewed backlog mode. All nominations made by editors with 20 or more prior nominations during this time will require two QPQs for every article nominated. Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Nandipha Magudumana; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.
- Hook won't fly on two counts; they must not contain parentheses, and must not be likely to change (she's not going to be there forever).--Launchballer 22:03, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
- Dxneo: Please respond to the above.--Launchballer 22:45, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
- Sorry for the wait Launchballer, I removed the parentheses and the deleted image. I might not fully understand what you mean by "must not be likely to change." If you have reviewed the article, you will come to realise that the subject is facing major time in prison and is considered a flight risk, meaning the chances for her to attend court cases from outside the walls or serve time under house arrest are slim to none. Please do ping me for a quick response. dxneo (talk) 23:30, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
- @Dxneo: WP:DYKHOOK says "The hook should include a definite fact that is unlikely to change", and she isn't going to be in prison indefinitely - she will ultimately either die there or be released. (You'll want to address those maintenance tags per WP:DYKTAG; I watchlist this page, so there is no need to ping me.)--Launchballer 23:37, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
- I think the main problem here is {{Recentism}}. What if the hook was written in the form of past tense, like "[x] was arrested for...?" as that can never changed. Pointers on how the hook can be improved? dxneo (talk) 00:41, 6 April 2024 (UTC)
- ALT1: "... that the celebrity doctor Nandipha Magudumana was imprisoned and investigated for twelve crimes including murder connected to a fugitive's prison escape" might work - although I wonder whether this would be acceptable under WP:DYKINT, which says "excessively sensational or gratuitous hooks should be rejected." Is there another angle?--Launchballer 07:36, 6 April 2024 (UTC)
- I think ALT1 will do just fine, or maybe I just can't find a better hook. dxneo (talk) 12:17, 6 April 2024 (UTC)
- ALT1: "... that the celebrity doctor Nandipha Magudumana was imprisoned and investigated for twelve crimes including murder connected to a fugitive's prison escape" might work - although I wonder whether this would be acceptable under WP:DYKINT, which says "excessively sensational or gratuitous hooks should be rejected." Is there another angle?--Launchballer 07:36, 6 April 2024 (UTC)
- I think the main problem here is {{Recentism}}. What if the hook was written in the form of past tense, like "[x] was arrested for...?" as that can never changed. Pointers on how the hook can be improved? dxneo (talk) 00:41, 6 April 2024 (UTC)
- @Dxneo: WP:DYKHOOK says "The hook should include a definite fact that is unlikely to change", and she isn't going to be in prison indefinitely - she will ultimately either die there or be released. (You'll want to address those maintenance tags per WP:DYKTAG; I watchlist this page, so there is no need to ping me.)--Launchballer 23:37, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
- Sorry for the wait Launchballer, I removed the parentheses and the deleted image. I might not fully understand what you mean by "must not be likely to change." If you have reviewed the article, you will come to realise that the subject is facing major time in prison and is considered a flight risk, meaning the chances for her to attend court cases from outside the walls or serve time under house arrest are slim to none. Please do ping me for a quick response. dxneo (talk) 23:30, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
- Dxneo: Please respond to the above.--Launchballer 22:45, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
I shall review this. The tags make it clear that It will not be a wholly positive review, but at least it will give an overview of where we are at, in this nomination. Storye book (talk) 16:24, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
| General: Article is new enough and long enough |
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| Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems |
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| Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation |
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| QPQ: None required. |
Overall: 
Thank you for this article. There are still improvements to be made, though.
You need to rephrase this: a surgery that provides affordable cosmetic surgery treatments because (1) it is plagiarism, and (2) it sounds like advertising.Please respond to the tag: You need to add more material to the Career section.Please respond to the tag: You need to add more information about past events (before the running away and imprisonment events), preferably about her life before the crimes.Storye book (talk) 16:41, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
- @Dxneo: Thank you for your prompt improvements to the article, and for your explanation on the nomination's talk page. Yes, it is normal to discuss the nomination here, so that all matters can be seen together, by all concerned. All the issues in the review are now resolved.
Unfortunately, in doing so, you have added another issue: I am concerned about the paragraph: In 2021, Magudumana and Bester co-founded Arum Properties, a construction company they used to scam people.[8] They convinced numerous people to pay millions of rands for renovations and construction projects of which they never delivered.[9].
We cannot say on Wikipedia that someone has committed a crime, unless they have been formally convicted for that crime in a court of law. As I understand it, that has not happened to Magudumana yet (I am not sure whether Bester was convicted?) To make it worse, the sources for that infomation amount (in law) to a trial by media. In many countries - and certainly on this American platform - the statements in that paragraph would amount to libel if we left that paragraph unchanged. To resolve this problem, you need to say something like: (Media name) has alleged that (person name) committed (whatever crimes). In most countries that phraseology should be permissible because you are not saying she did it, you are just saying that a media site or news site said she did it. So please rephrase the paragraph, making sure you use the word "alleged" or "allegedly" to cover all the crime accusations. To be clear: I have no opinion about whether they did it or not; I'm just saying we have to phrase this kind of thing in a certain way to protect Wikipedia from being sued for libel.Storye book (talk) 09:51, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
- I've gone in and attributed that myself per WP:BLP. Article is certainly looking better though.--Launchballer 10:00, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
- Thank you, dxneo and Launchballer for all your hard work on this one. This kind of article is never an easy task.
Good to go, with ALT1. Storye book (talk) 10:07, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
- I've gone in and attributed that myself per WP:BLP. Article is certainly looking better though.--Launchballer 10:00, 12 April 2024 (UTC)