Template:Did you know nominations/John A. Hilger (second nomination)
- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: rejected by reviewer, closed by AirshipJungleman29 talk 19:42, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
| DYK toolbox |
|---|
John A. Hilger (second nomination)
- ...
that John A. Hilger was the deputy commander of the Doolittle Raid?Source: https://www.tshaonline.org/handbook/entries/hilger-john-allen-jack
Improved to Good Article status by Toadboy123 (talk). Self-nominated at 07:33, 15 December 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/John A. Hilger (second nomination); consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.
@Onegreatjoke: @RoySmith: @Jon698: @Narutolovehinata5: Re-opening this discussion as the article has passed GA after I edited the article extensively to remove any copyright issues. Toadboy123 (talk) 07:28, 15 December 2023 (UTC)
- I'm going to ask for assistance from someone with the technical know-how, perhaps either Theleekycauldron or Vaticidalprophet, because this page should not have been a copypaste of the original nomination but should have been a clean, new nomination. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 11:17, 16 December 2023 (UTC)
- Narutolovehinata5, Toadboy123, as this is supposed to be a totally new nomination, I have deleted everything from the prior review (except maybe the hook). This includes the QPQ, which was supplied by Onegreatjoke for that particular nomination and was used for it even though it didn't ultimately pass; Toadboy123 will need to supply their own QPQ for this new nomination. BlueMoonset (talk) 00:29, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
- @BlueMoonset: Completed a new QPQ as per requested. - Toadboy123 (talk) 12:29, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
- Narutolovehinata5, Toadboy123, as this is supposed to be a totally new nomination, I have deleted everything from the prior review (except maybe the hook). This includes the QPQ, which was supplied by Onegreatjoke for that particular nomination and was used for it even though it didn't ultimately pass; Toadboy123 will need to supply their own QPQ for this new nomination. BlueMoonset (talk) 00:29, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
- Full review needed now that QPQ has been provided. Thanks. BlueMoonset (talk) 17:07, 21 January 2024 (UTC)
@Toadboy123: It has been almost a year since this article was withdrawn here at DYK and I see much work has been done to make corrections. A few issues: should we repeat the claim "was commissioned in the U.S. Army Air Corps in 1934" in the body? It is a minor thing that can be corrected on the fly. We also say in the lead he was "selected by Doolittle" but the article only says "Hilger, now a lieutenant colonel, was designated as the deputy commander for the "Doolittle Raid," a mission led by Lieutenant Colonel Jimmy Doolittle in March 1942". Right now both claims are in the lead but not repeated in the body. Also we say "he piloted one of the B-25s that bombed Nagoya in Japan" but the Doolittle section of the article does not say that he was flying a B-25. Earwig alerts only to long professional titles. I spot checked several references and the citations were correctly used. The QPQ is done and the article was a new GA so it qualifies for DYK. The hook may require a person to have specialized knowledge. Like what is the Doolittle raid? What era? What war? What country? The hook is cited but I think we should explore another based on DYKCRIT
I am comfortable that the article is free of obvious plagiarism and clop. The article is neutral and no image is offered here but certainly could be. We say he "bail out over the city of Shangrao", maybe it is assumed but we should probably add how he bailed with a parachute. Suggestion.Hooks should be likely to be perceived as unusual or intriguing by readers with no special knowledge or interest.
- ALT1: ...
that during World War II, US pilot John A. Hilger had to bail out of his aircraft behind enemy lines? - ALT2: ...
that US pilot John A. Hilger flew his aircraft in a bombing mission over Japan during World War II, but he did not have enough fuel to return?Bruxton (talk) 22:43, 24 January 2024 (UTC)- @Bruxton: How about ALT3:
...that due to his participation in the Doolittle Raid, John A. Hilger was not allowed to fly any missions while assigned in the China Burma India Theater during World War II?Let me know if this is fine by you. - Toadboy123 (talk) 00:37, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
- @Bruxton: How about ALT3:
- @Toadboy123: It does not interest me. A bit too busy. Also see if you can address my other nitpicks. Bruxton (talk) 00:55, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
- @Bruxton: Ok, I will go for ALT2 as it seems more interesting. - Toadboy123 (talk) 01:05, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
- @Toadboy123: I am hoping to pass the nomination, but I mentioned items that need fixing. Bruxton (talk) 02:37, 28 January 2024 (UTC)
- @Toadboy123: malformed ping Bruxton (talk) 15:21, 28 January 2024 (UTC)
- @Bruxton: I have made stated edits. - Toadboy123 (talk) 03:59, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
- @Toadboy123: Not yet, two still unfinished items from my initial review Bruxton (talk) 04:05, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
- @Bruxton: Did some of your edit requests. Please let me know if there is anything more to be resolved. - Toadboy123 (talk) 06:04, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, I have it called out in my first review above.
- "was commissioned in the U.S. Army Air Corps in 1934" is not in the body
- "selected by Doolittle" is not in the body
- Bruxton (talk) 06:09, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
- @Bruxton I have fixed these issues. Let me know now if the article is good to go. - Toadboy123 (talk) 01:20, 1 February 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, I have it called out in my first review above.
- @Bruxton: Did some of your edit requests. Please let me know if there is anything more to be resolved. - Toadboy123 (talk) 06:04, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
- @Toadboy123: Not yet, two still unfinished items from my initial review Bruxton (talk) 04:05, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
- @Bruxton: I have made stated edits. - Toadboy123 (talk) 03:59, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
- @Toadboy123: malformed ping Bruxton (talk) 15:21, 28 January 2024 (UTC)
- @Toadboy123: I am hoping to pass the nomination, but I mentioned items that need fixing. Bruxton (talk) 02:37, 28 January 2024 (UTC)
- @Bruxton: Ok, I will go for ALT2 as it seems more interesting. - Toadboy123 (talk) 01:05, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
- @Toadboy123: It does not interest me. A bit too busy. Also see if you can address my other nitpicks. Bruxton (talk) 00:55, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
New reviewer needed as ALT2 was created by the reviewer. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 12:10, 1 February 2024 (UTC)
Planes of the Doolittle Raid weren't supposed to return - they were supposed to fly on to China, so ALT2 is kind of misleading. One could perhaps go with something like:
- ALT4: ... that John A. Hilger was deputy commander of the Doolittle Raid, a one-way bombing mission against Japan in 1942?
- ALT5: ... that John A. Hilger was deputy commander of the first American bombing mission to strike the Japanese mainland in World War II? Gatoclass (talk) 02:46, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
- I like your hooks but now we need more reviewers. Bruxton (talk) 01:40, 3 February 2024 (UTC)
- Yes Bruxton I know that, but proposing alt hooks at times is part of the reviewing process. One cannot promote a nomination unless it has a viable hook. Gatoclass (talk) 03:49, 3 February 2024 (UTC)
- Bruxton, unless there's a new rule I'm not aware of I think you're allowed to approve Gatoclass's hooks. Both need an end-of-sentence citation in the article though. --Paul_012 (talk) 14:52, 4 February 2024 (UTC)
- Renumbering Gatoclass's two alts as ALT4 and ALT5, since an ALT3 had previously been proposed back on 24 January (which I have just struck per Bruxton's comment that followed). BlueMoonset (talk) 19:56, 6 February 2024 (UTC)
- Bruxton, unless there's a new rule I'm not aware of I think you're allowed to approve Gatoclass's hooks. Both need an end-of-sentence citation in the article though. --Paul_012 (talk) 14:52, 4 February 2024 (UTC)
- Yes Bruxton I know that, but proposing alt hooks at times is part of the reviewing process. One cannot promote a nomination unless it has a viable hook. Gatoclass (talk) 03:49, 3 February 2024 (UTC)
- I like your hooks but now we need more reviewers. Bruxton (talk) 01:40, 3 February 2024 (UTC)
Reviewer needed for ALTs 4 and 5. Gatoclass (talk) 00:50, 7 February 2024 (UTC)
- Both hooks would require an end-of-sentence citation.--Launchballer 17:52, 10 February 2024 (UTC)
- AlT4 isn't even in the article. I mean, if you squint your eyes and read between the lines, then sure, but hooks need to be explicit. Could the nominator add it to the "Doolittle Raid" section in the bio please? Viriditas (talk) 07:14, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
- ALT5 is in the article, but lacks a citation at the end of the sentence. Strangely, there is nothing about the hook in Doolittle Raid itself. Viriditas (talk) 07:19, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
- Note, I attempted to add sources for both ALT4 and ALT5 and could not do so. One of the sources required a subscription to Project Muse, so if you have access to that, please take a look. Viriditas (talk) 08:06, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
Viriditas' concerns are valid, and so neither ALT4 or ALT5 currently work. As this nomination is over two months old, I am marking it as rejected. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 15:44, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
- Note, I attempted to add sources for both ALT4 and ALT5 and could not do so. One of the sources required a subscription to Project Muse, so if you have access to that, please take a look. Viriditas (talk) 08:06, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
