Template:Did you know nominations/Phomen Singh

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by AirshipJungleman29 talk 11:56, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

Phomen Singh

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Passport portrait of Phomen Singh

~~... that Phomen Singh (pictured) was a pioneer of Punjabi Indian migration to New Zealand? Source: https://teara.govt.nz/en/biographies/3s20/singh-phomen~~
- ALT1: ... that Phomen Singh (pictured) was one of the earliest Punjabi Indian migrants to New Zealand? Source: https://teara.govt.nz/en/biographies/3s20/singh-phomen
- ALT2: ... that early Indian migrant Phomen Singh (pictured) sold sweets and chutneys out of a suitcase in New Zealand? Source: https://teara.govt.nz/en/biographies/3s20/singh-phomen
- Reviewed:

5x expanded by Winnieswikiworld (talk). Self-nominated at 02:36, 11 December 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Phomen Singh; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.

Intresting article but has some issues when it comes to DYK nomination. In the Death and Legacy section, the last line, which is related to the first hook, is unsourced. Regarding ALT 2, the line in the article mentions of Singh selling sweets and chutneys but does not state if he sold it out of his suitcase as mentioned in ALT2. Hope you can address these issues before the article can be passed for DYK. Toadboy123 (talk) 12:25, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

@Winnieswikiworld: Please respond to the above. Z1720 (talk) 01:01, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
@Toadboy123: @Z1720: I believe that Winnieswikiworld is currently away for the holidays - is it alright if she responds in a week's time? --Prosperosity (talk) 01:59, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

@Prosperosity: In that case, I would suggest to the DYK admins to keep this DYK in hold until mid-January if Winnieswikiworld would respond by then and take action to resolve issues in the article. - Toadboy123 (talk) 02:52, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

@Toadboy123:Hello, I have made the appropriate changes to the article and hope that it is now ready! --Winnieswikiworld (talk) 21:56, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

Mentioned issues have been resolved by user Winnieswikiworld. I prefer ALT2 with the article now good to go for DYK. - Toadboy123 (talk) 22:17, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

I have unpromoted this as the hook fact used (ALT1) was cited in the lead to a website not containing this information. @Winnieswikiworld, Toadboy123, and AirshipJungleman29: please double check; if ALT1 should not be used please strike it so promoters do not accidentally use this. —Kusma (talk) 11:33, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

@Kusma: Based on your suggestion, I have striked ALT1. - Toadboy123 (talk) 13:05, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

@Toadboy123: the one you struck was what we usually call ALT0. I see now that the citation here in the nomination supports ALT1, but the citations in the article lead did not, so it should not be too hard to cite the correct sources so the {{fv}} tags can be removed and the article can be re-promoted. —Kusma (talk) 16:48, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

(edit conflict) I don't quite agree with Kusma, in that ALT1 would need to add "known" after "earliest" to adequately reflect the given source. (I can't access source 4 to see whether it offers more about early Punjabi immigrants as compared to Singh, so I don't think we can go further than that.) I do agree that the the original hook needed to be struck. I'd like to suggest a variant of ALT2 (if "Punjabi Indian" rather than "Indian" is preferred, I'm fine with that):

ALT2a: ... that Phomen Singh (pictured), an early Indian migrant to New Zealand, sold sweets and chutneys out of a suitcase? BlueMoonset (talk) 17:03, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

Kusma, the sentence was adequately sourced in the body. A simpler solution, instead of depromoting the hook, would have been to remove the citations from the lead. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 17:43, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

@AirshipJungleman29: Finding citations that fail verification is a major strike against an article for me. Even if the citations are technically redundant. The hook was in the set that was up for promotion, and I am not OK with promoting an article to the main page queue with this kind of flashing warning sign. —Kusma (talk) 18:00, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

@Kusma: I have added an additional citation to the page. I am a bit confused, is this what you are looking for. Thanks :) --Winnieswikiworld (talk) 01:37, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

@Winnieswikiworld: I declined to promote the article when I saw that the first three citations did not check out. I am hoping that somebody checks the remaining ones and that those actually support the text they are attached to. If everything is now cited correctly, I have no objections. (But I would suggest to replace links to the article about the word "Aotearoa" by links to the country). —Kusma (talk) 17:13, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

I'm unclear as to whether this needs a new reviewer but it does need confirmation that referencing is now ok. There's a discussion about it on my talk page. Would someone please take a look through the references and give it a tick or otherwise? Schwede 66 18:58, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

@Schwede66: I've checked the sources and I don't see any issues - is that okay, or were you wanting someone else to check? --Prosperosity (talk) 01:20, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

Prosperosity, that's fine. What you now need to do is to reply including {{subst:DYKtick}} so that the relevant bot can move this nomination to the approved list. Schwede 66 04:47, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

Great to hear, thanks! --Prosperosity (talk) 04:52, 1 February 2024 (UTC)