Template:Did you know nominations/Johannes Holzmann
- The following discussion is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by BlueMoonset (talk) 22:49, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
Johannes Holzmann
[edit]- ... that the German anarchist Johannes Holzmann edited twenty-five issues of the journal Der Kampf, but eleven of them were banned?
Created/expanded by Carabinieri (talk). Self nom at 16:16, 27 April 2012 (UTC)
- Article length is fine, no indication of any copyvio or plagiarism, sources appear to be reliable. But the article has no headings and is therefore not easy to read, and the assertions contained in it appear not to be fully supported by inline citations. The hook is a little long, is not clearly supported by an inline citation, refers to a fact that is not as interesting as some of the other facts in the article, and asserts that the subject of the article was the publisher, whereas the article says he was the editor. I would also have said that the eleven issues were banned, not merely censored, if that's what happened to them. Bahnfrend (talk) 13:51, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
- I've changed "censored" to "banned". As the newspaper's editor, he was responsible for publishing it. I've added headings. The hook is supported by footnote 6. What facts in the article do you think are more interesting? --Carabinieri (talk) 14:22, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
Looks like its been cleaned up, second look! -- Esemono (talk) 06:49, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
An editor and a publisher of a journal do two different jobs. The editor selects and prepares copy for the journal; the publisher runs the business and, in particular, arranges for printing and distribution. If Holzmann did both jobs, then the relevant part of the hook should be changed to read "edited and published". I'm also still confused by the comment "Though it published by any particular organization" - should "it" be changed to read "it was not"? Otherwise, I agree that the article looks like it's been cleaned up. A possible alternative hook could be '... Johannes Holzmann was once described as "the most indefatigable Bohemian proletarian of the German-speaking anarchist movement"?' Bahnfrend (talk) 14:44, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
- My guess is he did do both, because the journal wasn't that big of an operation. The sources sort of mention both, but are more explicit on him being the editor. That confusing sentence was a typo, I've changed it. I generally don't think that "...that X was called 'Y'" hooks are particularly interesting, so I personally prefer the original, but I'm also ok with your alternative.--Carabinieri (talk) 12:04, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
- Comment I don't have access to the Fähnders article, but I find the use of the Stefan Otto one strange and there are some bad translations from it. The expression "als leitender Redaktor überwacht" means "monitored as a leading editor", not "constantly monitored". The statement "he thought Europe's future depended on the outcome of revolutionary developments in that country" is cited from Otto, who says only that Holzmann wrote to a friend that much depended on it. Also, given the emphasis placed in the article on Holzmann's interest in homosexuality, it seems odd that the article says he was "very close friends with" Else Lasker-Schüler, when Otto says of Else's illegitimate son "Denn diesem Indiz folgend, war Pauls Vater niemand anderes als Johannes Holzmann, der bei dessen Geburt 1899 selbst noch minderjährig war." (For this indicates that Paul's father was none other than Johannes Holzmann, who was still under-age himself at the time of the birth in 1899). I should have thought a neutral approach would have included mentioning that. On lesser points, Paragraph 175 of the Strafgesetzbuch (rather like the Buggery Act 1533) criminalized homosexual acts, rather than homosexuality itself, and the hook should be cited immediately after the fact in question, and not seven or eight sentences later. Moonraker (talk) 03:23, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
- I'm not sure where I got the word "constantly" from, but I've removed it. On Holzmann's views about Russia, Otto writes: "'Falle ich dort, so falle ich für die Freiheit Europas', schrieb er seinem Freund Pierre Ramus im Januar 1907, 'denn vom Ausgang der russischen Revolution hängt für jene viel ab'" ("If I die there [in Russia], then I'll die for Europe's freedom', he wrote to his friend Pierre Ramus in January 1907, 'because it [referring to Europe's freedom] depends on the outcome of the Russian Revolution'", referring to the 1905 Russian Revolution, of course). I think that justifies the claim "he thought Europe's future depended on the outcome of revolutionary developments in that country". As to Holzmann having fathered Lasker-Schüler's child, Otto isn't sure whether it's true himself. If you want to add that Holzmann may have been the father to the article, I wouldn't object. I've replaced "criminalized homosexuality" with "criminalized homosexual acts". I could also add footnotes immediately after the fact in whatever hook gets chosen, but I don't really think that's very useful.--Carabinieri (talk) 04:50, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
- By the way, this image could also be used.--Carabinieri (talk) 00:41, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
Image can't be used, as the photographer was probably not Holzmann himself and thus the current licensing tag does not apply (if the photographer is unknown, a different tag is needed). Also, you still have "decriminalisation of homosexuality", implying that homosexuality was criminal. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:45, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
- I didn't add the image to the article and I know nothing about copyright rules. I've changed "decriminalisation of homosexuality".--Carabinieri (talk) 10:19, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
Alright, this looks ready to me. AGF on offline/foreign-language references. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:42, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
