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Ideogram

não acho que o ideograma representasse a cruz céltica e sim a mira de uma arma representando ele próprio — Preceding unsigned comment added by 187.64.52.33 (talk) 10:33, 10 April 2016 (UTC)

Note: Google translate of the above (from Portuguese): I do not think the ideogram is the Celtic Cross but the gunpoint representing himself. TJRC (talk) 00:38, 11 April 2016 (UTC)

Murder is not 'popular culture'

From the 'popular culture' section: "The Zodiac Killer's crimes, letters and cryptograms to police and newspapers inspired many movies, novels and television productions, as well as other serial killers." While it may possibly be true that these crimes inspired other homicides, the act of serial killing is not, under any sane definition, 'popular culture', and Wikipedia should not be suggesting that it is. Delete the last clause from the sentence. 31.49.219.125 (talk) 01:00, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

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Ted Cruz?

Can I add info about Ted Cruz being rumored to be the Zodiac Killer? Coolcam6578 (talk) 17:25, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

No, this is completely disproved and only an Internet chat room subject. Cruz was not even around when the Zodiac committed his crimes. See also article history on this subject. Wikipedia is a serious encyclopedia and not a forum for silly theories. David J Johnson (talk) 19:49, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
It is mentioned, already, in the popular culture sub-article. DoctorJoeE review transgressions/talk to me! 00:50, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 August 2016

change "victims=5 confirmed dead, possibly 20-28 total dead and 2 injured (claimed to have killed 37)"

to

"victims=5 confirmed dead, 2 injured. possibly 20-28 total dead. (claimed to have killed 37)"


Windh (talk) 19:13, 3 August 2016 (UTC)

Done — Andy W. (talk · ctb) 20:10, 3 August 2016 (UTC)

Victim info incorrect on Maggeau per 1969 KPIX Interview

Wiki incorrectly states that the victims in this attack/murder were shot despite a 1969 clip from KPIX in which the police officer who found their bodies states they were clearly stabbed. Wiki does not appear to be reporting accurate information in this article. Having an advanced degree in psychology and forensic experience, the interpretation that the Zodiac Killer erroneously killed singles when he was clearly targeting couples should be more closely scrutinized by police, in my professional opinion. Serial killers (a popular title) tend to fit a profile, and do not stray from that. Discovering the killer's motive is key, which unfortunately typically occurs after the perpetrator is caught. Nevertheless, this article need to be modified to contain the correct details.

First, please sign any contribution you might make, do not leave comments unsigned. Your contention that the method that the "Maggeau" (Mageau) murders is incorrect is not supported by any reliable sources. The present article details are supported by reliable and confirmed sources. Also, you cannot state that your "professional opinion", as that falls into WP:OR, which you should consult. David J Johnson (talk) 16:11, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

Unknowns

When a particular parameter doesn't apply, it's left blank - not filled in with "not applicable". Similarly, parameters that are unknown should be left out; there's no provision in the template documentation to do otherwise. Nikkimaria (talk) 12:48, 16 December 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 30 March 2017

The online forum zodiac killer mystery lists the businessman Kjell Qvale as the zodiac killer due to the similarities between the zodiac killer's sketch and Qvale's appearance and being noticed and ignored by two police officers searching for the zodiac killer. Something else entirely (talk) 13:18, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

 Not done. Forums are not reliable sources. GABgab 14:04, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

This is the Zodiac Speaking

Is the This is the Zodiac Speaking ....not talking about a link identifying the doc....but the doc its self reliable?

  • Michael D. Kelleher; David Van Nuys (2002). "This is the Zodiac Speaking": Into the Mind of a Serial Killer. Praeger. ISBN 978-0-275-97338-4.

About the authors ......quote from Google Books

"MICHAEL D. KELLEHER, who has written widely on the subject of violence, specializes in threat assessment, strategic management, and human resources management for organizations in the private and public sectors. He is the author of When Good Kids Kill (1998), Murder Most Rare (1998), Profiling the Lethal Employee (1997), Flash Point: The American Mass Murderer (1997), and New Arenas for Violence (1996), all published by Praeger."
"DAVID VAN NUYS is Chair of the Psychology Department at Sonoma State University in Northern California. He serves on the board of directors of Division 32 (Humanistic Psychology) of the American Psychological Association. Van Nuys earned his doctorate in clinical psychology from the University of Michigan and has worked as a licensed psychotherapist in both New Hampshire and California. A frequent public speaker, he has also published in professional journals, popular magazines and was the author of a nationally syndicated newspaper column. In addition to his university teaching, Van Nuys is President of e-FocusGroups, a market research consulting firm."
--Moxy (talk) 22:46, 8 April 2017 (UTC)
The book would be considered an RS for the article, but of course, conclusions would be (educated) speculation. The ZS was never caught. 50.111.5.163 (talk) 06:55, 13 May 2017 (UTC)

Possible names of the zodiac killer and is he still out there

Can you guys help me cipher the killers name MysteriousCjwolf (talk) 04:19, 1 February 2017 (UTC)

He's almost certainly dead. Otherwise, he'd be pushing 90.50.111.5.163 (talk) 06:57, 13 May 2017 (UTC)

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Suspects

Shouldn't the section about suspects have more information? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.80.4.1 (talk) 15:32, 4 April 2017 (UTC)

Firstly, please sign your contributions. Secondly, the "Suspects" section contains a refer to another publication on the subject. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia and does not deal in speculation. Regards, David J Johnson (talk) 19:53, 4 April 2017 (UTC)

Isn't the last comment a tad heavy-handed? Wikipedia has an entire page on the Jack-the-Ripper suspects here: https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Jack_the_Ripper_suspects which has no less than 29 presented, some with dubious connections. Why do you say 'Wikipedia doesn't engage in speculation' when somebody wants to know the Zodiac suspects but it is perfectly fine to speculate on Jack the Ripper suspect? This just shows the arbitrariness of Wikipedia in these areas.

Having said that, I do agree there there really aren't any other credible suspects and objectively Allen isn't a good one either. The only suspect mentioned in the Suspects section is Allen and Graysmith's book (Zodiac) is not authoritative but now that it has been made into a movie, it gains popular appeal. Maybe a 'problem' with the article is that some of the other posited suspects are mentioned under 'Current Status of the Investigation' instead of under 'Suspects'. Shouldn't Gaikowski, Hodel, Myers, and Best be listed under suspects although some (all) are objectively pretty ridiculous? Maybe the two sections should be merged?

The reality is that there really are right now no good suspects so the public appears to latch on to very speculative assertions. A good website with the proper level of skepticism for instance is here: http://www.zodiackillerfacts.com/case.htm 24.187.5.180 (talk) 20:36, 27 May 2017 (UTC)

The suspects in the Jack the Ripper suspects article are there because professionally-published mainstream academic or journalistic sources discusses the prospect of those people being involved. I believe that what David J Johnson meant when he said that Wikipedia doesn't deal in speculation is that Wikipedia does not use original research. Ian.thomson (talk) 22:26, 27 May 2017 (UTC)

Thanks Ian. I agree that some of the Ripper research is academically justified or from journalistic research, but a number of them are written with the same type of sensationalist appeal and lack of evidence or common sense as the other Zodiac 'suspects'. I don't think you can justify all 29 people listed in the Ripper article as having 'mainstream academic or journalistic sources'. For example, Lewis Carroll being listed as a Ripper suspect with absolutely no connection. He was named by Richard Wallace but even the Wikipedia article says ' This claim is not taken seriously by scholars.' So I'm sorry, this is an arbitrary distinction. The Ripper page does have some real suspects but includes many of the crackpot suspects thrown out in the public. Carroll as a Ripper suspect no more fits 'mainstream academic or journalistic sources' cited than the potential Zodiac 'suspects'. Many of the other Ripper 'suspects' listed on the Wikipedia page are just as dubious but there are books about them too. So if the criterion is that somebody wrote a book about it, there are Zodiac suspects that can be listed. If you want to say the crackpot Zodiac theories should be removed then they should also be removed from the Ripper page. 24.187.5.180 (talk) 05:23, 28 May 2017 (UTC)

This is a bit flawed because Lewis Carroll does get mention in mainstream sources and dealt with accordingly which is what we try to do with our presentation on the JTR suspects page by mentioning the unlikely suspects. If they are not mentioned then someone may come along and try to introduce it with more validity than it deserves. See how Rumbelow treats Carroll. Rumbelow is certainly well-respected so his mention suggests that it is worth giving the weight that it is due...which is not very much.
You do have a point, I believe. One thing that I do see with the JTR suspects page that might be borrowed here is separation by headings to break apart who thinks what. In this article, the "Current status of investigations" co-mingles actual law enforcement case status with non-authority speculations which is misleading. The JTR suspects page has things like "Proposed by later authors" which helps delineate the different classes of proposals with more appropriate weight given. The modern sensationalist tact of using "We reopen the case", "Case solved" or "Case closed" kind of wording implies that they are involved in an actual investigation rather than their private research and speculations. I've made this edit to reflect the above.
"Gaikowski, Hodel, Myers, and Best" are not suspects. Law enforcement agencies name suspects and no one else. Authors don't get to do that. They can suspect whomever they want but that doesn't make those individuals actual suspects. I would reserve that semantic for actual police suspects to show who was on their radar. We are a bit loose on the JTR pages because they are all dead. We are likely to be more restrictive on this article because there is the potential to libel someone living which cannot seriously be done on the JTR pages.
 — Berean Hunter (talk) 17:12, 28 May 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for the explanation and the edit Berean; I do think the article reads better now. 24.187.5.180 (talk) 22:01, 28 May 2017 (UTC)

Why are the Texarkana Moonlight Murders and Monster of Florence linked to in "See Also"? The similarities between the cases are superficial at best. -- Jimbonator (talk) 21:24, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 June 2017

Under the section "Arthur Leigh Allen", there is an error of spelling wherein "San Francisco" is spelled "San Fransisco", in the sentence: " In September 1972, San Fransisco police obtained a search warrant for Allen's residence." While this is minor, it should still be fixed. Richardroe (talk) 06:20, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

Done Izno (talk) 12:35, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

Theories

Could some explain why Arthur Leigh Allen gets his own section called "Theorized culprits within published books" while other suspects who are very much "within published books" are tucked away in a totally different section called "Theories"? Surely the former should be a sub-section of the latter? I would have submitted a protected edit request but no doubt this will require consensus first. 2A02:C7D:3CAF:D900:F983:16C6:8862:B1F0 (talk) 17:15, 22 November 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 26 November 2017

Per the section above titled "Theories", please merge the sections Zodiac Killer#Theorized culprits within published books and Zodiac Killer#Theories. In my opinion this would be best accomplished by merging the Zodiac Killer#Arthur Leigh Allen subsection into "Theories", but I am happy for you to use your discretion if you can do it in a better way. 2A02:C7D:3CAF:D900:9198:A342:8469:37C6 (talk) 15:49, 26 November 2017 (UTC)

Done Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 19:45, 27 November 2017 (UTC)

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Semi-protected edit request on 13 December 2017

Zodiac killer is the Monster of Florence. I have to write something about it Theghostwriterofzodiac (talk) 00:26, 13 December 2017 (UTC)

@Theghostwriterofzodiac:  Not done. One, you can only request someone make an edit for you. This is not a request for permission to edit. Two, your claim that the Zodiac Killer and the Monster of Florence are the same person needs to be reliably sourced. I strongly suggest you read that link because anything that doesn't meet that standard will get deleted on sight. CityOfSilver 01:05, 13 December 2017 (UTC)

Joseph newton chandler III suspect

a possible suspect of the case is joseph newton chanlder III as he resembled police sketches of the Zodiac and had lived in California, where the Zodiac operated. so he should be aded to the suspect list. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.115.194.122 (talk) 14:54, 11 October 2018 (UTC)

Firstly, please sign any comment you might make. Secondly, you need to supply reliable and properly sourced references before we can consider further suspects on the article page. The current sources do not seem to pass the criteria and appear to be speculation. David J Johnson (talk) 19:13, 11 October 2018 (UTC)

here is a source for it. www.realclearlife.com/crime/mystery-joseph-newton-chandler-iii/ 😊

Is this supposed to be a reliable source? Please also sign any "contribution" you may may. David J Johnson (talk) 09:29, 23 October 2018 (UTC)
I would say "maybe" - although the tone is very much right-wing of the parent company. CNN and MSNBC are very left-wing, and we use them. Perusing some of the articles, they don't seem fringy. May not be ACCURATE/TRUE, but they are verifiable.50.111.19.178 (talk) 04:25, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
Not at all. Suspects are officially named by law enforcement authorities and not by writers or news agencies. If a writer manages to convince authorities then the authorities will name him. I believe the only thing that the authorities have said about Chandler is that they wouldn't exclude him from possibly being a suspect. That is a far cry from adding him to the list of suspects. As yet, there is zero evidence against him.
 — Berean Hunter (talk) 15:25, 1 November 2018 (UTC)

I mean that it should be put in the theories section for public speculation and suspicion since he is only publicly speculated by the public. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.115.194.66 (talk) 22:55, 16 November 2018 (UTC)

Once again, sign your posts. Do this with four tildes (like this: ~~~~).
A few hundred years ago, the public suspected that plenty of people were witches, too. Hell, even more recently Reddit and 4chan were mostly identifying anyone but the real perpetrators of the Boston Bombing. Unless you have a professionally-published mainstream academic or journalistic source that says that law-enforcement have investigated him as a possible suspect, then it doesn't really belong. Ian.thomson (talk) 23:06, 16 November 2018 (UTC)

investigations

got some new info for using Geneology to find the killer [1] (50.115.194.122 (talk) 19:51, 19 December 2018 (UTC))

Killers identity

The man who was so humblely referee to as Aurther Lee Allen in the movie Zodiac was in fact a man by the name of Arron Leigh and the storyline within the film pretty much details the correct trim of events leading the police to find in 2005 that the killer was in fact already dead ..many think it wasn’t a serial killing spree at all due to the fact that all of the victims were in fact in the Virgin Islands at the exact same time just months prior minus the cab driver a cherry and Washington . His victims only stacked up to 5 which makes this a mass murder spree and not a serial killing . The key elements to a true serial killing spree were not present nor where they even addressed by Napa or SFPD . A very sloppy handling of a case “Dirty Harry” Arthurleeallen (talk) 11:55, 31 December 2018 (UTC)

successful use of genetic ancestry database in Golden State Killer case prompts use in Zodiac Killer case

Someone may want to add info from this article to the current state of the Zodiac investigation: SFGate: "Zodiac Killer case: DNA may offer hope of solving the mystery" https://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/Zodiac-murder-case-Police-taking-another-look-at-12885070.php?t=d28e3ee91f Phantom in ca (talk) 04:19, 4 May 2018 (UTC)

Assuming the killer was at least, say, 22 yrs old in 1969, he's pretty damned old now if he's still alive. The article says "catch" rather than the more proper "solve."50.111.19.178 (talk) 04:21, 1 November 2018 (UTC)

This man died around 2005 Arthurleeallen (talk) 11:57, 31 December 2018 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 00:06, 2 February 2019 (UTC)

Donna Lass Reward Poster is fake (or at least altered, or misattributed)

The Reward Poster for Donna Lass is an image claiming to be a digital copy of a poster from the 1970s. However, at the bottom it gives the current (as of 20190119) phone number for the South Tahoe Police Department, 530 542-6100. As pointed out on slide 3 of the document linked below, the 530 area code didn't exist until 1997.

http://www.cpuc.ca.gov/uploadedFiles/CPUC_Website/Content/Utilities_and_Industries/Communications/Consumer_Programs/Area_Codes/916/916%20Meeting%20PowerPoint.pdf

70.63.129.180 (talk) 12:02, 19 January 2019 (UTC)

It's now been deleted. TJRC (talk) 20:38, 13 March 2019 (UTC)

Capitalization of the word "killer" in the page name

I know this subject may a little ambiguous, but the current page title strikes me as odd and I was wondering if anyone else feels the same. I'm talking about the capitalization of the word killer, since it's a noun. I know the Zodiac is frequently referred to as the Zodiac killer as well, but it just looks off when it's capitalized as a proper title. I'm not immediately proposing we change it to Zodiac killer, just wondering if anyone feels the same. Although then again, Jack the Ripper is also capitalized the same way. So yeah, I look forward to hearing your opinion on what may the most trivial subject put up for discussion ever. Jay D. Easy (talk) 19:02, 14 February 2019 (UTC)

If you research the capitalization/or not of this person, what are the results of common usage? From the internet search I just did he is/was the Zodiac Killer, he is not one of many, he is singularly known. Shearonink (talk) 19:12, 14 February 2019 (UTC)
"Zodiac Killer" (upper-case "K") does not look strange to me, but "Zodiac killer" (lower-case "k") does. If we were to consider him as a killer named Zodiac, then the proper title would not be "Zodiac killer". Rather, it would be "Zodiac" or "Zodiac (killer)". Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 05:17, 9 July 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 July 2019

"The results are expected back soon" should be removed. The phrase, detached from the full quote, is a misleading reference. What is soon? when is soon? is soon a year from now or 10 years from now?.. and from what reference point? Is it soon as of 2019? 2018? (time of the cited news story). I think the phrase should be removed altogether. 96.240.108.212 (talk) 13:41, 18 July 2019 (UTC)

 Partly done: I agree that as written it was pretty well uselessly vague, but the USA Today article had a better quote. ("Poyser said they should get results back in several weeks.") I rewrote that to make the timing a little clearer, and took out a couple of redundant citations. ‑‑ElHef (Meep?) 14:33, 18 July 2019 (UTC)

Addition in 'Public suspicions and speculation' section

In the article for Edward Wayne Edwards he is noted as having a possible connection to the Zodiac, however this information is missing from the Zodiac article. I suggest a reference be added to Edwards in the 'Public suspicions and speculation' section. Something similar to:

Convicted serial killer Edward Wayne Edwards has been suggested as the identity of the Zodiac. Edwards' daughter noted his obsession with the case and would exclaim "That's not how it happened!" during news reports on the Zodiac. Edwards also lived in northern California during the Zodiac's late 1960s murders. NeonUneon (talk) 14:52, 18 August 2019 (UTC)

 Not done. Please provide a reliable source for this information. It would generally be better to attribute it to the author rather than the vague "it has been suggested" as well (see WP:WEASEL). –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 15:54, 18 August 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 11 March 2020

In the subsection on Arthur Leigh Allen, the last sentence says, " However, as of March 2018, it was announced that the 2002 DNA sample was collected from outside the stamp rather than behind it, or from the envelope seal, meaning Allen could still be a suspect." The source for this information is an article that references "an email" sent out by someone not connected to law enforcement who himself references an unnamed source. I request that this sentence be removed or revised to show that no official announcement regarding the validity of the 2002 test has ever been made. The sourced article is itself un-sourced and unofficial. System failure13 (talk) 18:32, 11 March 2020 (UTC)

 Done. Deleted. A forum post claiming to have gotten information from a retired cop, purportedly confirmed by an investigator, but not verified in any published source, does not meet WP:RS. TJRC (talk) 21:41, 11 March 2020 (UTC)

Request that this sentence under the section for Arthur Leigh Allen: "Since neither test result indicated a match, Allen and Cheney were excluded as the contributors of the DNA, though it cannot be stated definitively that it is DNA from the Zodiac on the envelopes." be amended to read: "Since neither test result indicated a match, Allen and Cheney were excluded as the contributors of the DNA." Nothing in the source article indicates that the DNA is not Zodiac's and other edits and sources indicate otherwise.

 Done The second clause of that sentence failed verification as not in the source cited and is also unsupported WP:SYNTH Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 21:53, 18 March 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 July 2019

It says that one of four ciphers has been solved but all have been solved except for one, as seen in the source link (1). 187.162.48.198 (talk) 09:55, 20 July 2019 (UTC)

'Only one has been definitely solved'. I'm guessing the other two have potential solutions? Regards, Willbb234 (talk) 10:18, 20 July 2019 (UTC)


No, there are 3 more and can't have potential solutions, they are solved as shown in source [1]. Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 187.162.48.198 (talk) 08:03, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

Please.... sign any "contribution" you might make and properly reference "source link (1)". Thank you, David J Johnson (talk) 11:26, 23 July 2019 (UTC)
 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Melmann (talk) 13:52, 23 July 2019 (UTC)


In te first paragraph:

"Of the four cryptograms sent, only one has been definitively solved.[1]"

Maybe change for: "Of the four cryptograms sent, one still remains unsolved."


Source: http://www.zodiackiller.com/Letters.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.175.132.88 (talk) 23:18, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

that's a personal blog - sorry50.111.27.4 (talk) 13:27, 2 April 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 April 2020

edit height Goose King1937 (talk) 01:51, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Crboyer (talk) 02:30, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

From what to what? And do you have a source for whatever height?Crboyer (talk) 02:30, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

Interesting? Needs more details

In order for people to read this, It needs to be interesting and It doesnt seem very interesting. There needs to be juicy parts like about how he killed someone or who he killed or where he is now. STuff like that.— Preceding unsigned comment added by BellaKeagan (talk • contribs)

Firstly, please sign any "contribution" you may make in the usual way. To answer your post, Wikipedia is a encyclopedia and deals only in reliable, secondary, sources. Any comments on "how he killed someone" and "where he is now"; would be pure speculation and not worthy of insertion in a factual encyclopedia. David J Johnson (talk) 20:34, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 15 June 2020

I would like to add more information with regard to Ross Sullivan, discussing the connections he had to the Cheri Jo murder. This information would also include his resemblance to Zodiac, not only having similar facial features to the Z sketch, but as well as his stocky build and tall height. Further facts that he studied cryptography in college, worked at the library at RCC and knew Cheri Jo.

Sources would be: https://www.history.com/news/could-any-of-these-men-have-been-the-zodiac-killer , https://metro.co.uk/2017/11/23/experts-think-theyve-finally-unmasked-the-zodiac-killer-7103161/

Thanks Casparov12 (talk) 23:41, 15 June 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Mind clarifying that in the suggested "x to y" (or "add precisely Y") format? RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 00:21, 16 June 2020 (UTC)

Please change the info on the 340-character cipher. It has been decoded, but not confirmed that it is what it said.

The decoded cipherread this:

Collapsed for brevity

KILL/SLF/DR/HELP/ME/KILL/MYSELF/GAS/CHAMBER/AEIOUR/DAYS/QUESTIONSABLE/EVERYY/WAKING/MOMENT/IM/ALIVE/MY/PRIDE/LOST/I/CANT/GO/ON/LIVING/IN/THIS/WAY/KILLING/PEOPLE/I/HAV/KILLD/SO/MANY/PEOPLE/CANT/HELP/MYSELF/IM/SO/ANGRY/I/COULD/DO/MY/THING/IM/ALONE/IN/THIS/WORLD/MY/WHOLE/LIFE/FUL/O/LIES/IM/UNABLE/TO/STOP/BY/THE/TIME/YOU/SOLVE/THIS/I/WILL/HAV/KILLD/ELEVEN/PEOPLE/PLEASE/HELP/ME/STOP/KILLING/PEOPLE/PLEASE/MY/NAME/IS/LEIGH/ALLEN/

[1]

That's just the latest amateur theory in a long list of such amateur theories. It's adequately covered already in the text: "Numerous possible solutions have been suggested, but none can be claimed as definitive." TJRC (talk) 02:38, 2 August 2020 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ https://patch.com/california/fostercity/has-the-code-of-the-zodiac-killer-been-cracked

Semi-protected edit request on 12 August 2020

Unknowable, a paranormal and true crime podcast, did their 20th episode on the Zodiac Killer. https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/unknowable/id1439947356 Crownofstorms (talk) 21:03, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

Not done: Your edits amount to spam. Robvanvee 21:23, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

Change name of "Modesto attack"

According to everything I've seen, the victim was driving on highway 132 near I-5. That is really not all that close to Modesto, in an entirely different county, and is much closer to the decently-sized city of Tracy. I'm not too familiar with the protocols of nomenclature issues like this, but I really think "Modesto attack" is quite misleading.

Agree and I changed that to "Kathleen Johns' report" earlier today.
 — Berean Hunter (talk) 20:38, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Let's Crack Zodiac, 340 solved?

Doing some browsing, I came across this video that seems reasonably credible in my amateur eyes. Thought it might've been worth noting for this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1oQLPRE21o — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gazdoesstuff (talk • contribs) 20:44, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

@Gazdoesstuff: Thanks for keeping up on it. It's been acknowledged by the FBI and reported upon by reliable sources. I implemented it first thing this morning. ;) DÅRTHBØTTØ (T•C) 21:09, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 December 2020

Wanted for an update to be added to the Zodiac Killer page, since one of his ciphers has been recently decoded. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55285805 TheFreelanceEditor (talk) 12:26, 12 December 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: This was done immediately after the news broke yesterday. This page is getting bombarded by edits and requests asking for something very clearly there. DÅRTHBØTTØ (T•C) 15:30, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
Touchy much? Jeez dude, take a chill pill. You don't own this article. The decoding of this cypher was big news, so of course this page is getting lots of attention. Maybe stop hovering over it and take a break for a while. Go write a book? Or confess. 73.6.96.168 (talk) 15:52, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
Calm down. Nobody has to own an article in order to remove duplicate information.DÅRTHBØTTØ (T•C) 16:30, 12 December 2020 (UTC)

Perhaps over stated.

The article states "an international team of private citizens cracked it on December 5, 2020". I think that is overstated. I think they have solved it, but this is something that is unlikely to be ever verified therefore to be encyclopedic I suggest rewording to something like: "an international team of private citizens proposed a solution on December 5, 2020". 83.100.188.53 (talk) 20:19, 12 December 2020 (UTC)

"Send" should be "sent"..

In the new 340 Section. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.243.171.194 (talk) 19:03, 12 December 2020 (UTC)

checkY Done. DÅRTHBØTTØ (T•C) 19:09, 12 December 2020 (UTC)


Where is this 340 section?? There is nothing about the cracked code in this article. 2A00:23C7:E284:CF00:53:61A6:D15A:CC29 (talk) 18:48, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

Seems to be listed in Zodiac_Killer#More_letters. Primefac (talk) 19:11, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

its my work

Totally in dispute. Wikipedia will not remove the content...My work was on the internet over 1 year prior. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Davinci1527 (talk • contribs) 01:30, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

Davinci1527, do you have evidence (of the reliable variety) to support this claim? Primefac (talk) 01:32, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

Coordinates?

There are seven sets of coordinates on this page (four in § Confirmed murders and three in § Contemporary public speculation and Zodiac claims). The only mention of these I can find anywhere in the talk page archives are two requests for corrections on archive 4, from 2015. Using Wikiblame I was able to find when the coordinates were added, in this diff on January 1, 2013. At no point has the significance of these coordinates been explained: not in the article text, not on the talk page, and not in the edit summary when they were added. So why are they here? How does their presence aid reader comprehension of the subject matter? I can't see any importance to them at all, and think they should be removed. 「ディノ奴千？！」☎ Dinoguy1000 03:44, 12 December 2020 (UTC)

Since there's been no comment here, I went ahead and removed the coordinates from the page. 「ディノ奴千？！」☎ Dinoguy1000 10:48, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

"prior to"?

The article reads:

(...) but re-opened it at some point prior to March 2007

(...) just prior to 11:00 pm and parked beside the couple.

Why not use the Anglo-Saxon "before" instead of the Latin idiom "prior to"? Does "prior to" sound more clever or trendy? 85.193.228.103 (talk) 23:21, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

No, it doesn't. "prior to" (and "prior") is common in legal and criminal contexts and discussions. It is also often preferred to "before" where the following material is somewhat specific. So, I wouldn't say "prior to noon", but "before noon". But I might prefer "prior to 11:00 pm", especially in a criminal description.
"prior to" is not a Latin idiom.
"prior to" is not an idiom at all; an idiom is a phrase whose meaning cannot be extracted by analysis of its components.
"idiom" is derived from French via Latin via Greek. Why not find a good old English replacement, such as "saying? JohndanR (talk) 19:55, 19 December 2020 (UTC)
According to Grammar Girl "prior to is an acceptable idiom". As for "saying" - was it meant as sarcasm? Idiom is a group of words whose meaning is different from the meanings of the individual words, while saying is a well-known phrase or statement that expresses something about life that most people believe is wise and true. The difference is obvious. Anyway, thank you for your response. I really appreciate it. Regards :-) 85.193.228.103 (talk) 02:59, 20 December 2020 (UTC)

There is now an alebra system validation of the 340 cipher

https://blog.wolfram.com/2021/03/24/the-solution-of-the-zodiac-killers-340-character-cipher/ 176.213.135.195 (talk) 10:53, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

Possibly Solved?

Jacob B. teenager known on discord as @lolno, has a conclusion to the zodiac killer case he writes in his journal " I think it was a four man job, there where ten shots but only 9 bullets where found the one shooting the .22 rifle (Arthur Allen) wanted a souvenir, Donald Bujok wrote the Halloween letter , and left his mental health class, (because he was in the navy) 4-F as a clue to take their eyes off Arthur for the time being, Lawrence Kane was a peeping tom so it makes sense that most of the victims where female, Jack Terrence lived in Vallejo California and went to the same high school as Arthur did, so there is a high chance that they knew each other [10:35 AM] and summing up all that information Arthur was the big mastermind behind the zodiac" he put all of this together with evidence and logic he has also solved other mysteries: Jack The Ripper The Salem Witch Trials The Migazaws Case The Bobby Dunbar case The Timothy Pitizen case The Gareth Williams assassination

JB234567 (JB234567) 17:42, 7 April 2021 (UTC)

Some rando blog is not a suitable source for adding content to this information. Please save the conspiracy theories for such locations. Primefac (talk) 17:51, 7 April 2021 (UTC)

Untitled

Indeed, specifically the Zodiac Killer's wiki page seems t imply that the saliva results were never produced but this isn't true. In 2002, the SFPD developed a partial DNA profile from the saliva on stamps and envelopes of Zodiac's letters. The SFPD compared this partial DNA to the DNA of Arthur Leigh Allen.[101][102] A DNA comparison was also made with the DNA of Don Cheney, who was Allen's former close friend and the first person to suggest Allen may be the Zodiac Killer. Since neither test result indicated a match, Allen and Cheney were excluded as the contributors of the DNA.Jellinator (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 17:31, 29 May 2021 (UTC)

Interesting story....

I’ve Cracked Zodiac, a French Engineer Says.....https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/22/world/europe/france-zodiac-killer-cipher.html - Neils51 (talk) 21:53, 24 June 2021 (UTC)

Santa Barbara -> Santa Barbara County

The title of the "Santa Barbara" section should be renamed to "Santa Barbara County". The murders in question in the section occurred in Lompoc, which is some 50 miles north of the City of Santa Barbara. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.71.206.53 (talk) 16:42, September 21, 2021 (UTC)

 Done TJRC (talk) 23:58, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 October 2021

Zodiac solved October 6th 2021 2603:6010:5E34:7A62:50BA:35F6:6D20:BB33 (talk) 03:56, 7 October 2021 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. You also need to provide sourcing for this. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 11:27, 7 October 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 October 2021

In the most recent update regarding the case breakers 2021 identification, it falsely states that they claim DNA from another murder connects Poste to the Zodiac crimes. It is documented in every article that they believe DNA might support the connection to the murder of Cheri Jo Bates, but they've been unsuccessful in getting that. Their basis for the connection to the Zodiac Killer is pictures of Poste that include facial scars matching the police sketches of the Zodiac Killer, as well as the letters of his name being taken out of one of the Zodiac's ciphers.

Suggested change: 2000s development section, final paragraph, change:

In October 2021, The Case Breakers, a team of over 40 cold case investigators composed of former law enforcement investigators, military intelligence officers and journalists, claimed to have identified the Zodiac Killer as Gary Francis Poste, who died in 2018. The team claimed DNA from a murder committed a hundred miles away from the other crimes, previously unattributed to the Zodiac, matched Poste's DNA, as well as scars on his forehead matching those described on the killer.

To:

In October 2021, The Case Breakers, a team of over 40 cold case investigators composed of former law enforcement investigators, military intelligence officers and journalists, claimed to have identified the Zodiac Killer as Gary Francis Poste, who died in 2018. They claim that photos from Poste's darkroom include images of Poste with facial scars matching those on sketches of the Zodiac Killer. They further revealed that in one of the Zodiac Killer's letters, Poste's full name was removed to reveal another message.

The citation following could probably be www.fox13now.com/news/national-news/investigators-say-theyve-finally-identified-the-zodiac-killer%3f_amp=true since that seems to be the one that broke the news. 2600:1009:B02E:5C4C:B9DF:7A4B:E9AD:1E6D (talk) 21:48, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

It should also state that the FBI announced they are investigating this lead as that was immediately announced as soon as this story broke. Colliric (talk) 00:34, 7 October 2021 (UTC)

 Already done Text has already been updated to address these concerns. ––FormalDude talk 08:09, 10 October 2021 (UTC)

Duplication

The "Public Speculation" and "21st century developments" section both have significant overlaps in content and subject matter with regards to the new suspect Gary Poste. Shouldn't all the info be in one spot and not duplicated as it is now? Reflecktor (talk) 13:11, 15 October 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 October 2021

Updating "State(s)" and adding brackets around California, to link to the wikipedia page. 75.186.18.51 (talk) 02:06, 8 October 2021 (UTC)

 Done Interesting Geek (talk) 16:14, 8 October 2021 (UTC)

"In 2021 it was revealed that the identity of the Zodiac Killer was revealed to be a man by the name of Gary Francis Poste, who passed away in 2018." This statement, on top of being unsourced, is way too absolute. The truth here is that yet another person has been pointed out as the Zodiac Killer, and going by statements in media, the claimed evidence is pretty circumstantial.

This section of the text, if not outright removed, should be reworded and have a citation attached to it. 2A00:801:2D2:DBA7:591C:7CF2:F1D6:65B7 (talk) 10:02, 16 October 2021 (UTC)

Zodiac Killer's name has been released now.

His name is Gary.F Poste and he Died in 2018. I have some proof it's https://jtacnews.com/13043/uncategorized/zodiac-killer-possibly-identified/,https://deadline.com/2021/10/zodiac-killer-bay-area-criminal-case-breakers-1234851218/,https://www.the-sun.com/news/3808404/zodiac-killer-gary-poste-francis-solved-dna-code-suspects/. Thegibuspyro (talk) 16:04, 16 October 2021 (UTC)

Have you read the article or the sections immediately above? Acroterion (talk) 17:55, 16 October 2021 (UTC)

Oh, but should we wait because it's important? or just make New contents. Thegibuspyro (talk) 15:07, 17 October 2021 (UTC)

It's already mentioned in the article and has been discussed here. It's not a definitive conclusion, and the article says so. Acroterion (talk) 15:10, 17 October 2021 (UTC)

Section title

"1969 mailings and 2020 breakthrough" why are we making it sound like its solved?Moxy- 22:39, 17 October 2021 (UTC)

The cipher that the section talks about was solved in 2020. JOEBRO64 22:56, 17 October 2021 (UTC)

Amended composite sketch in infobox?

I'm thinking that if we have only one of the two SFPD composite sketches of the Stine murderer, wouldn't it make more sense to use the amended sketch (which witnesses felt was more accurate) rather than the original? Global Cerebral Ischemia (talk) 01:50, 18 October 2021 (UTC)

21st century developments edit suggestion

A person by the name of "Tom Voigt" often inserts himself into articles/pages about the Zodiac Killer. He has done it on this page and I believe it is irrelevant and should be removed: "and author Tom Voigt, a Zodiac Killer investigator, called the claims "bullshit". Voigt noted that no witnesses in the case described Zodiac as having scars on his forehead.[99]"

Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.190.38.123 (talk) 13:14, 17 October 2021 (UTC)

The cited article is a perfectly appropriate secondary source. Global Cerebral Ischemia (talk) 01:51, 18 October 2021 (UTC)

Jumping the gun on the Gary Francis Poste story?

Regarding the section on Gary Francis Poste being identified as the Zodiac Killer, wouldn't it be best to take this development with a grain of salt? This development didn't come from any of the police departments investigating the case, but from a group of private individuals. Should their word really carry that much weight? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 139.47.95.249 (talk) 16:16, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

Yes. The section is about public speculation which includes authors and investigators. I think that the bit about Poste needs more detail, such as the bit about his boots and the fact that his name was initially in the letters, but taken out. 2603:3024:1533:C500:C546:BEF7:49C:E71B (talk) 17:39, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

For now, it's just a suspicious. This is not the first time that a group or person claimed to have "identified" the guy. For now, the police hasn't confirmed it or denied it. It's ok to be in the article, in a specific section with the appropriate context, but not on the lead, like this was something new and ground breaking. We should wait and see at least until the police speaks on this with more clarity cuz, so far, the case remains open. Coltsfan (talk) 18:03, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

Agreed. Nothing wrong with including it in its proper section with a source attached.2603:3024:1533:C500:4DD7:244E:4F00:B671 (talk) 21:07, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

The case remains open until the police declare it shut, but I think I speak for most people when I say he's definitely the Prime Suspect now and will probably be so from now on. The evidence they presented was very highly convincing. The FBI and has already announced they will be pursuing this lead now. Colliric (talk) 21:29, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

Well, according to the FBI, the case is still open with "no new evidence" (see source here and here). Coltsfan (talk) 16:35, 7 October 2021 (UTC)
A press release from a private group of people about some random person being Zodiac, and he's "definitely the prime suspect"? I don't think so. Just another in a long line of spurious claims; one more suspect on the list (and AFAIK, weaker than most). Global Cerebral Ischemia (talk) 01:55, 18 October 2021 (UTC)

You guys think they're actually going to "catch him?" Turtleshell3 (talk) 14:03, 8 October 2021 (UTC)

New editor 2230redondo is editing the related article Zodiac Killer in popular culture pushing recent events into a long rambling lede, that has been reverted by two editors, Materialscientist and myself; and tagged with the rather benign {{Lead too long}} by Earle Bartibus Huxley.

I've reverted them twice already (with explanatory edit summaries and messages on their talk page), and am loathe to edit-war myself; but input from the editors here would be welcome (including telling me that I'm off-base and that 2230redondo's edits are generally an improvement, if that's the case). I'm posting here because the IPC article doesn't get that much traffic and I know that this one does.

Thanks. TJRC (talk) 03:53, 22 October 2021 (UTC)

The new information is far from rambling and includes a pivotal article written by THE Zodiac Killer Reporter - Kevin Fagan - The most talked about subject in the Zodiac Killer world today is who has 'really' decoded the ciphers. Especially the 340 cipher. This new information is an example of pop culture 'True Crime' Literature. It is highly appropriate and very well written, if I say so myself.

The objection of the materialist and TJ is inexplicable as the entire page has been abandon for at least 2 years. Why are they so active to remove this information. The information has more citation than any post on the page, just click the links and examine the volume of detailed information.

Maybe those two should take more time to research what is being said and look at the work on the links, than exercise domain over the page as if they own the world of words on the Zodiac. Personally, I have not heard a cogent, intelligent, or reasonable answer to why they want it to go, except that they deleted it.

Please explain to everyone why you think it is rambling... It seems very specific and it is explosive, which the rules state that we should overlook the 2 paragraph rule if the information is enticing and draws the reader in. Well, Identifying the 'REAL:' name of the Zodiac and solving the My Name Is... Cifer is pretty interesting in the pop culture world of the Zodiac Killer.

So, why don't you and materialist chill out and let readers take in the information and view some comments, before you start a war, which you seem intent on doing. Now if you are hiding your 'real' identity 'David' and your results don't match up with what is here, maybe you should show your work vs. just telling people the FBI said you achieved the correct answer. I am waiting to see it..

Please. show us all!

2230 Redondo — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2230redondo (talk • contribs) 04:16, 22 October 2021 (UTC)

I'll watch the article and see how it goes. Frankly, the long, rambling comment (never mind the implausible claims) from 2230redondo above is not encouraging... Global Cerebral Ischemia (talk) 11:40, 22 October 2021 (UTC)

Cheri Bates correction is needed

"Cheri Jo Bates, 18: stabbed to death and nearly decapitated on October 30, 1966, at Riverside City College in Riverside. Bates's possible connection to the Zodiac only appeared four years after her murder when San Francisco Chronicle reporter Paul Avery received a tip regarding similarities between the Zodiac killings and the circumstances surrounding Bates's death.[46]"

The above is incorrect. Here is the correct info, which has been documented on the Internet since 1998: https://zodiackiller.com/RiversideMemo1.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by TomVoigtZodiac (talk • contribs) 19:20, 11 November 2021 (UTC)

Fargo Wells letter from December 3rd, 1968

17 days before the Lake Herman Road murders, a San Francisco bank branch of the listed above bank found a note full of weird misspellings and syntax errors. It was signed "zodiac" and was taken into FBI custody. It should be on this article. Here's a link to the full story: [2] ~ Dxrd, 15:56, 20 December 2021 (UTC)

That comes from a blog. That's a problem.50.111.6.149 (talk) 17:38, 20 December 2021 (UTC)

340 cypher solved

Apparently the 340 character message has been solved and validated by the FBI.

https://www.discovermagazine.com/the-sciences/how-mathematicians-cracked-the-zodiac-killers-cipher Soccerguy243 (talk) 11:41, 23 December 2021 (UTC)

New Suspect.

A man named William Mcduff Andrew, is being toted as the new Zodiac Suspect, though currently all evidence against him is circumstantial, it's certainly the strongest. he died in 2014. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Only One Zodiac (talk • contribs) 18:42, 10 January 2022 (UTC)

Edward Wayne Edwards

Suspect list needs an update to include Edward Wayne Edwards, who is actually known, strictly for murdering couples and can be tied to the zodiac through some circumstantial evidence. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Only One Zodiac (talk • contribs) 18:46, 10 January 2022 (UTC)

Incorrect information in article

The article claims that the San Francisco Chronicle received letters on October 13 and October 14, each containing pieces of Paul Stine's shirttail. This is incorrect. There was only one letter received, on October 13, and it only included one piece of the shirt. The threat against school children was made in the same letter. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 45.37.139.243 (talk) 02:50, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

Possible additions

It should be mentioned that there are similarities between Zodiac and the fictional character Francis Dolarhyde, either on the Zodiac Killer page, the Zodiac Killer in popular culture page, and the Francis Dolarhyde page. These are that he killed by the moon cycles and likely (but not for certain) has multiple personalities. The Hunt for the Zodiac Documentary in 2017 proves these connections. It talks about how each known slaying occurs during a Dali Day on the 13-moon calendar and how one of Zodiac's sketches sent to the police reflects this. There was also an alleged solving of the z340 cypher in 2017. The documentary did not reveal the name of the killer outright. I wanted to talk about some of this. He bears similarities to Dennis Rader and Joseph James DeAngelo, who could be placed under See Also. Additionally, Dennis Rader has been identified as a suspect, albeit a highly improbable one, for the Zodiac killings. The same is true for a man [whose name I will not mention until it is absolutely okay to do so or if this individual is dead] who matches the Zodiac sketch and possessed rare comic books featuring phrases and killer themes similar to what the Zodiac included in his letters. This man could be a more probable suspect. In the event that the Zodiac Killer is identified and/or apprehended in the future, this article should be greatly shortened in order to deprive this individual of undue attention. Please take this into consideration. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SomeoneWWTSI (talk • contribs) 17:52, 15 March 2022 (UTC)

So... these comic books are rare enough that the killer's use of phraseology is a reliable clue, and yet you know of these books (but will not tell us)? Also, the length of the wikipedia entry is not necessarily a reflection of undue attention. I understand that you feel that paying attention to serial killer may serve to encourage them further, or might even encourage would-be killers or copycats to embark on such a career. Maybe that is true. Unfortunately, the attention is warranted. 2A01:CB0C:CD:D800:CD50:BE34:214B:7875 (talk) 09:10, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

Italian suspect

MisterCrusca (talk · contribs) keeps adding an alleged Italian suspect to the article, sourced only to two Italian sources. In response to a request for evidence that the theory has any currency outside Italy, they added a reference from The Sun, which is anything but a reliable source, and there is no evidence that this theory is even taken seriously in Italy, much less in the US. Please provide better sourcing if you want this to be kept in the article. Acroterion (talk) 16:18, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

"Public speculation" was the original subtitle of the paragraph "Other suspects". I think it was more appropriate. Joseph Bevilacqua is American and has been discussed as a possible suspect on Reddit and forums since 2018. Certain observations imply that Gary Poste should be considered more seriously than Bevilacqua because the original source is Fox News instead of Italian newspapers. I do not now if this could work. Even if I do not think that is diriment, I could reply that Bevilacqua has been investigated by some authority, at least. MisterCrusca (talk) 17:42, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

Can you find something better than the Sun to show coverage outside of Italy? Acroterion (talk) 17:44, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

Yes, if you can wait MisterCrusca (talk) 17:56, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

Zodiac Killer is not identified.

He is Gary Francis Poste. Barnacles14 (talk) 02:09, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

Not unidentified* Barnacles14 (talk) 02:11, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

The adoption of the Zodiac alias (draft)

In his 1976 autobiography, Melvin Belli described an engineered encounter with a Riverside law student who had allegedly claimed to be the Zodiac Killer.  Upon meeting the young man face-to-face, Belli decided that they were investigating the wrong man for the Zodiac crimes.  In 2002, Robert Graysmith described the possibility that a former student of Pacific High School, in the San Bernardino area, was the source of the Zodiac alias.  Eventually it came out in online posts that both accounts referred to the same person.  While much of what is online and in print is juvenile gossip, and the young man has been cleared repeatedly, he has confirmed that he did use the nickname Zodiac while a teenager.  As the logo in the Cheri "Jo" Bates letter resembles the young man's initials, MLZ or simply MZ, the Zodiac killer or killers apparently wanted to implicate this individual.  The fake "Patricia Hautz" letter in 1967 further supports this.

[Melvin Belli My Life on Trial, pages 295-296]

[Zodiac Unmasked, Graysmith, pg 74]

[Pacific High School Yearbooks, 1963-1965.  Photos posted in Zodiac discussions show and name the young man. I own a copy of the 1964 yearbook as displayed and sold by Classmates.com]

Thorough, but not publicly visible.  Morf13 was the author.

This is a sample of the less focused summaries.

[Note that the young man went on to run for public office.  As a public figure, and because of the importance to homicide investigations, it would be reasonable to name him.] VallejoHistory (talk) 10:30, 24 July 2022 (UTC)

Why readers need to know about possible cases after 1970

I tried to be concise, but as a fellow editor deleted my previous addition to the article page, I have written a verbose version here in case anybody has comments.

Regarding Robert Graysmith's  ZODIAC book (The Yellow Book, YB):

  The book is of high quality, though not perfect.

  The book is a standard reference for people studying the Zodiac case.

  Sensationalism present in Graysmith's later writing is largely absent from this publication.

Graysmith's ZODIAC books list of 49 individuals (confirmed + possible victims):

  Many of these are already on the Wikipedia article page.

  Zodiac varied his MO in the confirmed killings, just as Graysmith's list allows for new and varied MO's. 

 Donna Lass vanished in 1970, after some people claim that the Zodiac killings ended.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by VallejoHistory (talk • contribs) 20:05, 4 August 2022 (UTC)

  Zodiac declared that he would strangle by "Rope" in the October 27, 1970 letter.

  The Santa Rosa Hitchhiker Murders included many strangulations.

  The Santa Rosa Hitchhiker Murders were abductions, as were the likely Zodiac attacks on Donna Lass, Kathleen Johns, and Isobel Watson.

  Zodiac is an accepted suspect in the Santa Rosa Hitchhiker Murders, and is listed as a suspect the article page for those murders.

  Graysmith's list, though imperfect, has held up well over time.

  Online researchers certainly take the list seriously.

(Also, "Rope" is the name of a Hitchcock film and the director shot Shadow of a Doubt in Santa Rosa.)

Often when a specific suspect is considered, murders not on the "short list" are considered.  For example, discussions of Larry Kane usually include the murder of Dana Lull.

Given the brutality, premeditation, and goal of disgracing law enforcement, I don't believe that Zodiac stopped killing in 1969.

I know that the murder of JonBenet Ramsey at first seems unrelated to Zodiac killings, but the links are there:

   The references to crime films in the "Ransom note."  (Well attested in print.)

   Zodiac inspired Dirty Harry, one of the films referenced.  (The Zodiac inspiration for the film is on the film's article page.)

   Claims that the "Ransom note" writing is similar to Zodiac's. (John A. Cameron)

   The feminine style of the note echoes Zodiac's fake "Patricia Hautz" letter.

   The possibility that Zodiac wore a disguise, such as a Santa Suit. (Cameron)

   The possibility that the killer made snuff films of the killing fits with Zodiac's film interest and is probably why Zodiac apparently abducted many victims from 1970 onward.

The intent of the above is to make readers aware of the many possible Zodiac murders.  The more data points to consider, the better people can explore patterns.  Readers given a view of the case as it was perceived in 1970 will assume that there is nothing further to learn, discuss, or consider. VallejoHistory (talk) 08:35, 4 August 2022 (UTC)

Psychological and physical profile

There's been a fair bit of discussion in the field of forensic psychology etc about the psychological profile of the Zodiac and there's also been some discussion regarding his physical one. Shouldn't this be on this page? Reflecktor (talk) 09:29, 11 August 2022 (UTC)

Any justification for deleting references to Santa Rosa Hitchhiker Murders, Graysmith's 1986 list, and Cameron's summary?

Yes, I know that law enforcement generally believes that a single Zodiac perpetrator became intimidated by the manly police of San Francisco in 1969 and converted to a flag-waving, Bible-thumping John Wayne fan who spent his free time teaching girl scouts car repair (and became a close friend of Mother Teresa, too). As far as I know, evidence that Zodiac repented, reformed, or went cold turkey on murder has always been a little thin. A psychologist (or similar) did interpret "A Citizen" to mean that Zodiac attained a degree of accomplishment and recognition sufficient to overcome feelings of inadequacy in society and no longer felt the need to exhibit life-and-dearth power over others. I recommend reading Tom Voigt's Just the Facts. The autopsy reports make it clear that Zodiac's hatred for women and disdain for society was not a whim or passing interest.

I do own all the print publications which I cite. I have been spending free time during Covid studying and discussing the case. Sadly, Zodiac has been able to slaughter woman after woman for decades without apparently serving prison time for any murder. Simply changing his MO and ending claims of individual killings was all that was needed to befuddle law enforcement. Bureaucrats have embraced the fantasy that law enforcement has had no need to spend resources on Zodiac, as he was a small player. This is a tragic mistake, and history will not treat law enforcement kindly.

If anyone does have proof that Zodiac stopped killing in 1969 or 1970 or 1971 or 1972 or 1973, kindly share it. Otherwise readers will be stuck with law enforcement's fantasy that Zodiac simply faded away. Readers will not explore the victim discussions in print and online.

Thank you. VallejoHistory (talk) 15:08, 11 August 2022 (UTC)

There is no proof either way, obviously. It is wishful thinking to believe otherwise, and of course, authors and armchair sleuths alike can link or speculate he may have been responsible for such and such a case in California, Connecticut or Kathmandu. If there is some form of proof his attacks (as opposed to conjecture) continued after 1970 (if Kathleen Johns was abducted by him) then it should be added.

Personally speaking, the irony of this obv. publicity hungry guy claiming credit for crimes proven not to be his (Radetich, very likely Cheri Jo Bates etc.) and encouraging speculation as to the number of his crimes while comparing murder to sex with women as he wrote cryptic letters (some only recently transcribed) claiming he adores his believed beckoning of a "Paradice Life" with slaves (male and female) he was collecting, and welcoming his death for a better reborn life than his Earthly own one tells me all I need to know about him and his inadequacy, and his need/thirst to be noticed. One note he wrote saying to the effect "I only look like that when committing my murders" shortly before skulking off into almost complete silence tells me all I personally need to know about this guy and his reasoning in his life before he went silent of his own accord-after the identikits were published- with his tail between his legs and while writing, increasingly infrequently, of his "lonely TV addict score" = guess, "SFPD" = 0 sign-offs with claims (even numerically) to murders he never even described.--Kieronoldham (talk) 21:55, 11 August 2022 (UTC)

Zodiac did manipulate and lie.  Richard Raditech may not have been a Zodiac victim.  Graysmith actually omitted his name from his 1986 list of possible and confirmed Zodiac victims.  The list still has value, decades on.  Nancy Bannallack, listed as Mary Bannallack, has recently had her killer identified through DNA, but most of the 49 individuals are still possible Zodiac attack targets.
Kathleen Johns's abduction story, however, does have strong elements pointing to Zodiac.  Graysmith wrote that both Johns and Bryan Hartnell considered their attackers to have spoken in monotones.  In the "This is the Zodiac Speaking" documentary disc 2 of David Fincher's Zodiac Blu-ray, Nancy Slover describes Zodiac as speaking in a strange monotone (33M:26S.)  Her account is worth viewing. Sandy Betts also claims that her main harasser and attacker, "Tony," had impaired speech and spoke in a monotone.  While Johns made a poor impression on law enforcement, her description of her abductor's speech has support.  As I recall, Betts has also claimed that she and Johns both observed scars on the suspect's right jaw and cheek.
That someone abducted Johns does fit well with many other possible crimes.  While Zodiac appears to have committed some home invasions, the emphasis at this time was to abduct by vehicle.  Isobel Watson and most of the Santa Rosa Hitchhiker Murders support this.
Jack the Ripper possibly quit killing after gaining notoriety, but this type of cessation is rare.  Bundy was a killer until the end.  At best, Ridgeway moderated his killing when he had a pleasing home life.
Author Soren Korsgaard describes how Zodiac acted out and referenced the Hitchcock Presents episode "Museum Piece."  Zodiac really did care about crime and horror dramas.  The references to films in the Zodiac letters did more than enhance the savage tone of content.  As Zodiac claimed to have used disguises, we should consider it possible.
Cheri "Jo" Bates, by the way, may have been selected as a target because of her middle and last name.  Josephine/Jo was the name of the main female character in Hitchcock's 1956 remake of The Man Who Knew Too Much.  Bates of course is synonymous with Psycho.
Over 200 possible Zodiac victims have been discussed online.  Sometimes proof emerges that victims such as Bannallack should be attributed to other killers.  Still, dozens of Zodiac murders seem likely.  I see no justification in deleting scenarios which encourage readers to pursue the case further.
VallejoHistory (talk) 10:05, 15 August 2022 (UTC)
Something further supporting Kathleen John's abductor as being Zodiac: Sandy Betts also describes acne or pockmarks scars. Betts has stated this in the past and agreed to write a new summary of the main killer, Tony:
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/zodiackillerfr/the-sandy-betts-story-t8160-s800.html
Betts agrees with many points made by other people who have interacted with Zodiac. She differs from other prime witnesses when she states that the man appears to be of Hispanic / American Mexican ancestry. Betts is not simply parroting what others have claimed. VallejoHistory (talk) 11:16, 25 August 2022 (UTC)
I added further support for Kathleen Johns abductor to have been Zodiac. I believe that this justifies making readers aware of killings after 1969, especially the list Graysmith published in 1986.
VallejoHistory (talk) 10:26, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
Summarizing points in favor of Zodiac being responsible for many of the Santa Rosa Hitchhiker Murders:
  A. The MO's varied, just like the confirmed Zodiac killings.
  B. Laura A. O'Dell and Brenda Key Merchant were stabbed to death, an established Zodiac MO.
C. Some were strangled, and Kim Wendy Allen was known to have been strangled by a ligature. This appears to be a fulfillment of Zodiac's claim to kill by Rope.
  D. Most bodies were left where they would be found, often within days.
E. The abduction by car of many victims was similar to that of Kathleen Johns, whose story I have given supporting evidence not previously on the article page.
  F. Zodiac is as good a suspect as the rest.  (Manalli died in 1976, before Graham and Kimble.)
  G. Serial killers do poorly at "cold turkey."
  H. Hitchcock's preferred nickname was "Hitch."
VallejoHistory (talk) 08:43, 28 August 2022 (UTC)

Korsgaard's description of August 1969 "Episode" paragraph

The following seems to have been deleted, but if people want to discuss it, here it is:

"Author Søren Roest Korsgaard explains that the "episode" paragraph in this letter referenced the Alfred Hitchcock Presents episode Museum Piece. The attachment of a light to a gun was a plot element which Zodiac adopted. The episode dialog also contains the phrase "The most dangerous game." Zodiac was both referencing and acting out Hitchcock story elements."

The episode is online from various sources. The one available on The Roku Channel seems OK, though other sources may have better image quality.

Korsgaard's book is America's Jack the Ripper: The Definitive Account of the Zodiac Killer. This is an updated edition. It was published in 2020. Most of what Korsgaard writes regarding the episode has been discussed for years online.

Note that there is no imagination required and no disagreement among people who have seen the episode. The August 1969 Zodiac letter certainly refers to this episode.

I had added Hitchcockian under See also. VallejoHistory (talk) 10:22, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 September 2022

The line, "In October 2021, the Case Breakers, a team of over 40 cold case investigators..." should be changed to "In October 2021, The Case Breakers, a team of over 40 cold case investigators..." HogunDogun (talk) 11:08, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: most sources use the current capitalization. Madeline (part of me) 14:50, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

Paul Doerr?

New book: How to Find Zodiac by Jarett Kobek. All I know is in this article: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/sep/30/zodiac-killer-jarett-kobek-california 173.30.64.118 (talk) 06:08, 2 October 2022 (UTC)

Read an piece with the author of the book and the daughter of Paul Doerr in Los Angeles magazine  —I'llbeyourbeach (talk) 13:00, 5 October 2022 (UTC)

'The Zodiac Killer' or 'The Zodiac'?

The article can't make up its mind which name to use. 31.51.14.209 (talk) 21:00, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

Interesting point. I think "Zodiac Killer" in all instances would be fine in my take. — Moops ⋠T⋡ 21:02, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 April 2023

Would you please include the Person of Interest sketch from Lake Berryessa. Even if you say, this was a sketch of a person thought to be lurking during the day of the murder of Cecelia Shepard. How can you be credible without it? 2603:8000:AD43:D3EC:D451:883E:5BB7:679 (talk) 03:09, 18 April 2023 (UTC)

Unless it was created by the FBI, explicitly published as public domain, or fals under one of Wikipedia’s copyright exceptions, such a sketch may not be usable. Is there a compatibly licensed file? Acroterion (talk) 03:30, 18 April 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 22 May 2023

Code Z13 has been cracked on May 9th 2023 by Michael Klemer, Germany.Z13 cracked Jochen Merkle (talk) 17:38, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

@Jochen Merkle YouTube is generally not a reliable source (see WP:RSPYT). S0091 (talk) 17:48, 22 May 2023 (UTC)
well ... I agree in general on YouTube ... but the video does not just claim that Z13 has been cracked, it cracks Z13 ... Jochen Merkle (talk) 17:59, 22 May 2023 (UTC)
There are perennial claims that Zodiac ciphers have been cracked. If it actually has been, it will inevitably be covered in a WP:RS. Until then, it should not be covered in Wikipedia. We have no objective of trying to scoop news sources. TJRC (talk) 18:20, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 May 2023

In Murders and correspondence/First letters from the Zodiac, end of 4th paragraph's first sentence, a slash was typed instead of a period. AlcoholicGel (talk) 14:52, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

 Done Cannolis (talk) 15:03, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 July 2023

Yasien Ibrahim Eldieb (talk) 15:21, 4 July 2023 (UTC) Its called paradise not paradice

Yes, but it's a direct quote, so it's spelled as the original. That's what the [sic] indicates. We don't correct quoted spelling. Acroterion (talk) 15:34, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
@Acroterion, I had just added the [sic] to the first instance of the word, but reverted since the article text discusses the numerous misspellings in the deciphered message. Xan747 (talk) 15:39, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
Yes, the misspellings are a characteristic of those communications. The editor who asked the question probably doesn't realize that. Acroterion (talk) 15:44, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

Regarding "the zodiac killer"'s usage of "Blue Meanies" against the Police

From the Blue Meanies (Yellow Submarine)'s wiki entry:

It's most likely "the zodiac" read that newspaper and borrowed it from it or from it's peers-to-lingo press.-User:Dxrd, January 1st, 2022. 22:22 PM.

References

  1. ^ Harry Hamlin (2010). Full Frontal Nudity: The Making of an Accidental Actor. Simon and Schuster. ISBN 978-1-4391-6999-5.
  2. ^ Jesse P. Ritter, Jr. (15 August 1969). "Nightmare for the innocent in a California jail". Life. 67 (7): 54. ISSN 0024-3019.

37

Zodiac did not claim to have murdered 37 people. He just stated the number 37 in a communication. Please delete this false information. 2A00:23C6:410F:A001:6908:F848:BECB:549B (talk) 21:46, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

Zodiac may have intentionally linked crimes and letters

Content draft: Since the early years, there has been support for Zodiac intentionally linking crimes by showing preferences for certain elements of attacks:

  Locations near water[], such as Lake Herman Road and Lake Berryessa.

  Attacking close to holidays[] and other significant dates, including Independence Day and Halloween.

Many more possible links have been considered over the years.  Targeting young couples seemed intentional based upon the first attacks for which Zodiac took credit.  Using .22 caliber long round ammunition may have been a preference.  The shooting of taxi driver Paul Stine appears to have been an intentional repeat of the killing of taxi driver Ray Davis.  Zodiac possibly killed other individuals with the surname Davis[], including Elaine Davis (1969, Walnut Creek) and Carolyn Davis (1973)[].

Notes: I am considering a new section for this. It does not seem to fit with any existing section.

The phrasing can be debated. "Water references" perhaps should be included because of Riverside. I did add "other significant dates" because Cheri Jo Bates died close to Halloween.

This topic is significant because there are many unconfirmed Zodiac crimes which may share links with the confirmed and likely Zodiac attacks.

Sources: Graysmith's 1986 book is the primary source.  It discusses the water and significant day link (pages 80-81) and lists Elaine Davis and Carolyn Davis as possible Zodiac victims (pages 309, 311).  For Carolyn Davis, I will provide a link to her section of the SRHM page.

For the Davis name, tentatively I will also cite a self-published book which I co-authored.  I will not mention other possible Davis victims or Davis references discussed in the book, however.

VallejoHistory (talk) 21:49, 29 August 2023 (UTC)

Firstly, you need to read WP:OR, as it appears that you are partly relying on your own research. Wikipedia can only publish material which have reliable, secondary, sources. Regards, David J Johnson (talk) 12:21, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
I actually read the policies carefully and followed the instructions to declare the usage of my own material in the talk page.
As your comment implies rejection my material, I plan to remove the citation to my work and replace the sentence with Elaine and Carolyn with:
Other possible victims with the surname Davis include Elaine Davis (1969, Walnut Creek) and Carolyn Davis (1973, Northern California). In the unconfirmed Zodiac May 1978 "Channel Nine" letter, Zodiac also mentioned former former LA Police Chief Edward M. Davis.
----
The above are only the best documented. For example, Zodiac may have begun to harass Sandy Betts, my co-author, while she was using the surname Davis. There are many more, with one unsolved 1971 homicide and one unpublished letter being strong candidates for Zodiac.
The killing of Ray Davis supports Zodiac killing well after October 1969. This is incredibly important. Simply the idea that Paul Stine's shooting was a reenactment of the shooting of Ray Davis expands how Zodiac can be perceived. VallejoHistory (talk) 00:30, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
The following cleans-up the phrasing and emphasizes the original 1969 list from law enforcement.
Subject: Repeated Elements
There has been considerable discussion regarding which elements Zodiac repeated.  Law enforcement's evaluation following in October 1969, prior to the attack on Paul Stine, is:
  1. The victims were young students, couples.
  2. The attacks all occurred on weekends, two near holidays.
  3. The murders were at dusk or night.
  4. Robbery or sexual molestation was not a motive.
  5. A different weapon was used each time.
  6. The killer had a compulsion to brag about the murders by phone or letter.
  7. Zodiac killed in remote lovers' lanes.
  8. The slayings all occurred around and in cars.
  9. The victims were always near water.
Additional killings imply changes to the above list.  For example, Zodiac probably killed Cheri Jo Bates.  Her murder was on the night before Halloween.  This suggests that Zodiac had a preference for unofficial observances a well as holidays. In general, the list has been influential, regardless of whether or not it accurately describes Zodiac's behaviors.
Additional information on the Zodiac crimes has generated many new candidates for repeating elements.  The recognition of possible Zodiac attacks in the early 1960's suggests that Zodiac may have preferred .22 caliber long round ammunition.  The number of film references in Zodiac letters increased over time.  Zodiac's actions centering on the shooting of taxi driver Paul Stine appear to have been an intentional repeat of those surrounding the shooting of taxi driver Ray Davis.  Other possible victims with the surname Davis include Elaine Davis (1969, Walnut Creek) and Carolyn/Caroline Davis (1973, Northern California).  The unconfirmed May 1978 "Channel Nine" Zodiac letter mentions former LA police chief Edward M. Davis.
It is unclear which repeated elements had meaning to the Zodiac Killer.
Sources: Graysmith's 1986 book contains the list (pages 80-81) and identifies Elaine Davis and Carolyn Davis as possible Zodiac victims (pages 309, 311).  The following link to a news report provides a concise summary of the Ray Davis shooting: https://www.cbs8.com/article/news/crime/police-looking-into-claims-by-historian-that-zodiac-killer-may-be-responsible-for-1962-oceanside-murder/509-06453d97-3244-478f-9160-3cd499ce2ec0 VallejoHistory (talk) 09:57, 5 September 2023 (UTC)

Number of victims. Change ASAP.

Zodiac attacked 7 people and 5 died. He never claimed that he had killed 37 people. There is no Zodiac communication where he claims to have killed 37 people. This is false information which needs to be deleted ASAP. 2A00:23C6:410F:A001:8902:3053:99AF:ED45 (talk) 15:57, 12 September 2023 (UTC)

on his final letter(sent on January 30, 1974), at the end of the letter, the Zodiac’s final score was written. “Me-37, SFPD-0”. Yes, he attacked 7 people and 5 died, but on the second letter he sent(1969), he claimed he will no longer announce when he will commit his murders, continuing on how he would commit his murder, Listing routine robberies, killings of anger, + a few fake accidents, etc. Yourhistoryfolkie (talk) 17:37, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
What 37 means is 37 celcious, F means fahreinheit. 37 is a column header, it doesnt mean he will kill 37. 174.29.125.36 (talk) 20:19, 22 December 2023 (UTC)
The answer to Z13 is glasses male ma Z32 is Solar enkman Emperor of japan, Z340 is personal information and comments, Z408 has his full name, it was missed, Z18 says "something is hidden" which is his name. 174.29.125.36 (talk) 20:21, 22 December 2023 (UTC)
Water has a relationship to the Grimoire but people seem focused on the dragon. Read the True Gimoire. 174.29.125.36 (talk) 20:22, 22 December 2023 (UTC)
The count of people killed is incorrect, he killed in Florida too, and there are 4 more in SF that you havent counted. 174.29.125.36 (talk) 20:23, 22 December 2023 (UTC)
The Zodiac Killer died in 2022.
Thus the case will always be open and unsolved even though it is known who he is. 174.29.125.36 (talk) 20:26, 22 December 2023 (UTC)
Zodiac spent years in the middle east starting in 75. This is shown thru birth records of the children and the ciphers, they are all middle eastern languages of which he was very proficient in. He returned to Riverside after that. 174.29.125.36 (talk) 20:28, 22 December 2023 (UTC)
The Zodiac killer was just an adolescent kid, hes never been mentioned as a suspect but he was early on and cleared in error. Hanwriting, but he writes 4 ways. 174.29.125.36 (talk) 20:30, 22 December 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 31 December 2023 (2)

Change Cipher to cipher. 5.46.53.81 (talk) 18:22, 31 December 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Cannolis (talk) 18:28, 31 December 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 March 2024

Change: In October 2021, the Case Breakers, a team indicating that have over forty former law enforcement investigators, military intelligence officers, and journalists

To: In October 2021, the Case Breakers, a team consisting of over forty former law enforcement investigators, military intelligence officers, and journalists Joshgrosz (talk) 14:14, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

 Done Liu1126 (talk) 14:57, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

“Details”.

The killer never claimed to have killed 37 people in any communication. He simply stated the number 37 in one letter.

Please delete this false information from the “Details” section. 2A00:23C6:410F:A001:1C2A:F2CC:7CC0:B62C (talk) 22:34, 9 March 2024 (UTC)

Edit Request

Change "Diane Ohlig" to "Diane Uhlig". See the referenced article for correct spelling of name. https://www.hmbreview.com/news/authorities-take-new-look-at-50-year-old-coastside-killing-that-still-shocks-conscience/article_c9ea0584-afab-11ec-b245-a72108e8b7a2.html WA-Bit-Tiger (talk) 17:00, 16 March 2024 (UTC)

Done - Other sources also show Uhlig. thanks. Moons of Io (talk) 17:15, 16 March 2024 (UTC)

edit request

Put links to the suspects wiki pages on their names. 46.132.67.255 (talk) 15:14, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

 Not done The prominent suspects' existing wiki articles are redirects to this article. GSK (talk • edits) 00:58, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

Change: the suspect, described as undefined was in fact discovered in 2018 by Francesco Amicone through a letter sent by the killer himself to the papers years prior, in the letter signed Zodiac a code that would have had revealed the name of the Zodiac once translated was present. Amicone was able to translate the unknown code thanks to a suspect he had managed to work his way to while investigating on both the Zodiac killer and The Monster Of Florence. The suspect, Joseph (Joe) Bevilacqua gave the Italian (Francesco Amicone) instructions on how to solve the code and once translated the 13 character code revealed one name, the one of the suspect himself, Joe Bevilacqua. Francesco Amicone has publicized all of his studies and are claimed by many to be the ones conducting to the infamous Killer Of The Zodiac, whom then later moved to Florence when the suspect (Joe Bevilacqua) started another killing spree, accordingly under the name; The Monster Of Florence given to him by the papers of the time. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Antonioravenga (talk • contribs) 19:18, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

Code Broken?

I just read an article in "The Register" stating with authority that the code has been completely and recently broken by a combination of "crowd source" investigators, and a newly advanced software, plus two high-powered cryptographers who were sharing the credit with everyone involved over decades. Said there was one final uncracked code and not two as this Article states,so I wonder how out-of-date this Article is. 2603:8081:3A00:30DF:8ACF:679C:8748:31DA (talk) 00:30, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

I believe I'm reading the article you're referring to, the one uploaded yesterday? It refers to the second cypher which was cracked in 2020 (the 2nd out of 4). The article was written because the people who cracked the cypher published a paper on how they did it. I'm not seeing an authoritative statement saying a final uncracked code was cracked, maybe it was in an original version of the article and they edited it out. https://www.theregister.com/2024/04/04/zodiac_killer_code/ Atubofsilverware (talk) 03:13, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

Another reference proposal

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuNyQ44JYxM - Video from a member of the group that decrypted the 340 cipher in 2020, with explanations about the history of process. 92.37.137.132 (talk) 02:28, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 May 2024

Change his daughter to her daughter in the section regarding Kathleen Johns in the addition victims section. Suspect doesn’t have a daughter, Johns does who she was accompanied by at the time of incident 203.211.109.13 (talk) 12:49, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

 Done M.Bitton (talk) 13:54, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Richard Lee Hoffman suspect

YouTuber 'GroovyGavin' interviewed the Grandson of a potential suspect who presented evidence on the fact that their Grandfather may have been the Zodiac Killer. This is presented with timelines and I suspect more evidence will be brought out around this in the future.

https://youtu.be/u4YIotUciNY?si=kYF3rThAoXS05OTY Whatthedogdodin (talk) 21:31, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

YouTube is not a reliable source. GSK (talk • edits) 21:34, 21 August 2024 (UTC)
It's not YouTube. Hoffman has been an unofficial suspect for over 4 decades and was mentioned in related books and websites.
Here are the main reasons:
- Hoffman made the same "funny spelling errors" as Zodiac killer. This is very strange and uncommon coincidence, mentioned many times including in the post below from zodiackillerfacts.
- Hoffman's first name is Richard. His name and description matches the survivor's description.
- He was in law enforcement and an officer in patrol in the same region in multiple killing nights. He said he didn't see anyone suspicious. He had an unmarked car and had a flashlight to investigate, similar to some survivor reports.
- Zodiac's first call was from a phone booth, two blocks away from Hoffman's station.
- Hoffman was very interested in the case. He injected himself into anything related. He was a consultant in Fincher's Zodiac film. He was also one of the main four interviewees in Zodiac documentary.
- There are more interesting notes on his personality and body language. Those cannot be considered as facts, but surely make him look like a sociopath. His daughter removed all ties with him due to domestic violence, too.
Here are some sources to continue on this topic:
- from zodiackillerfacts.com (old post mentioning spelling errors): https://zodiackillerfacts.com/zodiac-theories/zodiac-theories/the-zodiac-hoax-theory/3-the-hoffman-report/
- from 2017 forum discussion: https://zodiackillermystery.freeforums.net/thread/212/speculations-regarding-officer-richard-hoffman
Hope you research on this person and add an entry to the suspects link. No need to tie this to the recent claims by a social media personality who claims to be his grandson. Urraco64 (talk) 18:28, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
The Grandson has a TikTok where he also discusses it in a 13 part series as to why he believes his grandfather was the zodiac killer
https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTFNYPPmM/ 132.147.158.178 (talk) 03:10, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 October 2024

Under "Suspected Victims" section, "Robert Domingos and Linda Edwards", change "Edwards told her friend Shirley that they were going threre." to "Edwards told her friend Shirley that they were going there." 2601:644:9201:8AF0:702F:BC0F:F385:E1D3 (talk) 16:28, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

 Done Typo fixed. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 16:35, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

The text here "They were linked by the fact that they were dumped in ravines and killed in conjunction with astrological events, such as the winter solstice, equinox, and Friday the 13th.[124]" Implies that Friday the 13th is an astrological event which it is not. I'd recommend either removing Friday the 13th or put that in a different sentence — Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.59.33.96 (talk) 18:20, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

Short citations

The short citations should probably use a template like {{sfn}} or {{harvnb}}. Also, the Nuys in "Kelleher, Nuys 2002" should be Van Nuys. I'm sure there's a way to automate adding the "Van," but I'm not clever enough to figure that one out. Snowman304|talk 00:41, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

Wrong information about 37.

There are no communications where the killer claimed to have killed 37 people. He simply stated the number 37 in one 1974 letter.

This does not mean he killed 37 people. It could be a clue about anything.

Please delete the wrong information from this sentence:

“The last confirmed Zodiac letter was in 1974, in which he claimed to have killed 37 victims.”

No such claim was ever made by the killer.

The sentence should be changed to:

“The last confirmed Zodiac letter was in 1974.”

Thank you. 2A00:23C6:410F:A001:AC34:FC91:7519:E985 (talk) 04:32, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

Not done. "Me = 37, SFPD = 0." is clear as day considering the context of the other letters where he does the scoreboard thing. Reliable sources say this means 37 victims, and we go off of what reliable sources say. Atubofsilverware (talk) 22:43, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

Separate pages

The article is nearly 200k with 266 footnotes. It's a bit of a slog. It sure seems like it would make sense to break it out into separate pages.Trumpetrep (talk) 04:49, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

I was building up the article until I would separate the suspects section into its own page a la Jack the Ripper suspects. I think the article would be fine in scope from that point on. You can create Zodiac Killer suspects (that's a redirect) if you want right now, I'm busy with other pages. Atubofsilverware (talk) 22:03, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
And then I'll quickly write a summarized version of the suspects page on this page. Atubofsilverware (talk) 22:06, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
Actually, I'll hold off those pages for now. I made the Zodiac Killer suspects page and I'm transferring refs and photos right now. Atubofsilverware (talk) 22:17, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Great. That seems like the right move. It does seem like a few suspects should not be listed in an encyclopedic article, especially given that most of the citations rely on what is essentially fan fiction. For example, if John A. Cameron's allegation is met with "universally disdain", why are we including it on Wikipedia?Trumpetrep (talk) 02:24, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

Agree great move.... much easier to navigate and manage this article now. Moxy🍁 02:31, 10 November 2024 (UTC)
I agree with you on those two suspects. "Highly-criticized suspects" was a temporary categorizing by me, they were already on the article prior to my work. I've removed them. Atubofsilverware (talk) 02:40, 10 November 2024 (UTC)
It seems like a 3rd page about the Zodiac letters that also presents the ciphers in their entirety would be warranted. The dizzying amount of communication and the fact that people are still trying to solve the ciphers today strikes me as notable enough for an article.
It would also ease the pressure on this article, which is still far too bloated. I've incorporated the Works Cited books into the reflist as single, named citations. There are still a great deal of bizarre reference names and citations. Will plod on. Trumpetrep (talk) 04:52, 10 November 2024 (UTC)
I support an astrological murders page, but a letters page strikes me as overkill. We're at 9000 words now, which is not wild by any means. Atubofsilverware (talk) 10:54, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

A good example of this article's shortcomings with the Zodiac letters is the Avery Halloween Card section I just edited. The paragraph introduces it as a "card", but refers to it the rest of the way as a "letter". I edited them all to agree. I'm not sure this is correct, though (was there a letter inside the card?), and that's the problem that I see. The Zodiac letters are so frequent, complicated, and integral to the case that it seems like the material should be presented with more clarity.

I realized that the other issue was that the Zodiac letters were separated from each other by the "Suspected Victims" section. It makes little sense to separate them on either side of such an expansive section in an expansive article. It seems best to keep confirmed Zodiac victims and letters together.Trumpetrep (talk) 19:33, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

The separation was not my doing, I'm fine with moving that section up.
As for your other concerns, I agree that the correspondence needs work. I was working on it before you started helping. But I don't see why more clear writing on the Zodiac's correspondence needs a separate article. Atubofsilverware (talk) 23:09, 10 November 2024 (UTC)
Or another way to phrase it: I think ~8800 words is appropriate for "arguably the most famous unsolved murder case in American history". Atubofsilverware (talk) 23:12, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

The word/byte count is not so much of an issue as utility. Is the entry doing what it is supposed to for Wikipedia? For instance, JFK's assassination is such a sprawling topic that there are articles for his autopsy, Oswald, the Warren Commission, Clay Shaw, etc. The 11/9/69 Zodiac letter is 7 pages, yet it occupied the same amount of space as Sandy Betts did in the article.

Sandy's kooky claims could absolutely be worth including in Wikipedia, but isn't a verified Zodiac letter with a bomb diagram more important? The article seems to be trying to do too many things at once in its current form. That is why it seems worth a bit of restructuring. Thanks for the additional pages you've created! Trumpetrep (talk) 01:51, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

Alright, I'm convinced. What are your ultimate plans for the page though? Is that the final major change you think should be made? Atubofsilverware (talk) 15:18, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

I'm most focused on making sure credible sources are cited in an efficient way and that the language makes sense. I want to make sure that assessment's concerns are addressed. The biggest issue remaining seems to be classifying the material. The way you merged the confirmed attacks and letters is a good example of how things should look.Trumpetrep (talk) 18:16, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

OK, I think I have a bead on it. The piecemeal nature of the article is a big issue, as referenced in the assessment. At the head of the body, there is an extremely helpful listing of the 4 confirmed Zodiac attacks. I think that is also the place where the article should introduce the confirmed correspondence and ciphers. For example, when you get to "First Letters from the Zodiac", there is a helpful summary of his correspondence. I would move introductory material about confirmed Zodiac letters & codes to the beginning of the "Murders and Correspondence" section. It sets the topic out clearly, and enables the subsequent material to flow more easily. Does that make sense, or am I missing something? Trumpetrep (talk) 19:01, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
You mean move that paragraph from "first letters from the zodiac" to the top, and give a quick bulleted list of the confirmed messages like the murders after? That sounds fine. Atubofsilverware (talk) 19:04, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
Okay, I took a stab at it. Not sure the list of letters is in the best format, but I think a sortable table is overkill. It's helpful to see at a glance who got the letters, when they were sent, and which ones had ciphers. It should only include confirmed letters, and I'm unclear on what counts as "confirmed".Trumpetrep (talk) 05:33, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

The page is now at 95k bytes and 130 footnotes, essentially a 50% reduction in size. Most of that reduction is a result of consolidating citations and material. The bulk of the article's copy is intact as it was. The remaining issue I see is intertwined.

There are a half dozen books that are cited in the article that don't seem like they should be. It seems like these citations are a way of working them into the bibliography, and a way of not over-relying on Graysmith and Kelleher/Nuys:

  • Kobek, Jarett (2022). How to Find Zodiac. We Heard You Like Books. 4–5.
  • Korsgaard, Soren Roest. America's Jack The Ripper: The Crimes and Psychology of the Zodiac Killer. Lulu.com, 2017. 264ff.
  • Oswell, Douglas Evander. The Unabomber and the Zodiac. Douglas Oswell, 2007. 231.
  • Penn, Gareth. Times 17: the amazing story of the Zodiac murders in California and Massachusetts, 1966–1981, Foxglove Press. 1987.
  • Rogers, Kate. The Zodiac Killer: Terror in California. Greenhaven Publishing LLC, 2017. 40.
  • Adams, Charles F. (2004). Murder by the Bay: Historic Homicide in and about the City of San Francisco. Quill Driver Books.

That gets to a fundamental problem with the topic in general. So little is definitive. For instance, what makes a letter or murder "confirmed"? If there's a consensus, we should explain how it was formed and by whom. From what I can see, there is not. There just seems to be a general sense that 4 attacks/15 letters are genuine and then there is a whole lot of grey area.

This article could benefit from a critical apparatus that helps readers distinguish from theories and confirmed facts as well as self-published fluff and respected sources. I don't think Wikipedia likes annotated bibliographies, but this topic really could use one.

If it were up to me, I would:

  1. Move Kobek et al. to a section of Self-Published Sources in Further Reading. Use more reliable sources for their citations.
  2. Add the respected websites to Further Reading. At first glance, Voigt's site looks awful, but it seems like it's one of the more respected ones. Help readers know which sites to use.

Trumpetrep (talk) 05:05, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

You make good points, that all seems good to me. Atubofsilverware (talk) 19:27, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
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