Talk:Zhuyin table

	Writing portal This article falls within the scope of WikiProject Writing systems, a WikiProject interested in improving the encyclopaedic coverage and content of articles relating to writing systems on Wikipedia. If you would like to help out, you are welcome to drop by the project page and/or leave a query at the project’s talk page.Writing systemsWikipedia:WikiProject Writing systemsTemplate:WikiProject Writing systemsWriting system
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

China Mid‑importance

	China portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject China, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of China related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ChinaWikipedia:WikiProject ChinaTemplate:WikiProject ChinaChina-related
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Adding Sound...

Dear Reader,

 I like this Zhuyin Table, its perfect to practice for clearer accent and pronounciation. I think it would be great if you would first make it printable as it doesnt all print out nicely. Secondly make it downloadable. Finally if you added sounds with tone difference this would be a great tool for people who want to perfect there accent. Please consider this.

My Best,

-jdeiter

A set of these tables, showing the valid initial-final combinations for each tone, would be interesting. But it may be a bit too much from an encyclopedic point of view and get into more detail of "a guide to learning Chinese" rather than a reference table explaning how Zhuyin works. This may best be included into some sort of wikibook, like that already started for Chinese: Chinese Wikibook Murdocke 05:52, 7 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"The inherent approximating nature of Pinyin"

The latest edits by DrSpeakwell and DrSpeakwritewell (the same person?) added a few paragraphs, wherein DrSpeakwell talks wrote "There are discrepancies between the Pinyin table and the Zhuyin table due to the inherent approximating nature of Pinyin.", "Thus, the inconsistencies are within Pinyin itself" and "These kinds of inconsistency indicate that Pinyin does not really qualify as a phonetic symbols system."

But it's not clear what "inconsistencies" DrSpeakwell is talking about, and it's not explained what is meant by "inherent approximating nature". Also, DrSpeakwell made several claims without references, like "Chinese however does not really have the equivalents of consonants and vowels." and "Zhuyin in Chinese means exact pronunciation specification...Pinyin in Chinese means attempted sound approximation..."

So, I reverted to before those changes. If someone wants to add that content again, I think it would be best to structure it more clearly and add references.

Also, the introduction says that this is a complete listing of syllables used in standard Chinese. According to what dictionary? For example, how can we decide whether variant sounds 挼(ruá; ㄖㄨㄚˊ), 扽(dèn; ㄉㄣˋ), 忒(tēi; ㄊㄟ) should be included?

For example, DrSpeakwell added the entries ㄙㄟ (sei), ㄉㄣ (den), ㄋㄧㄚ (nia), ㄉㄧㄤ (diang), ㄖㄨㄚ (rua), ㄋㄨㄣ (nun), ㄌㄩㄢ (lüan), but it's questionable whether there are any characters in standard Chinese with these readings; for questionable entries like this, references to a dictionary or similar source would be good.

ㄌㄩㄣ

Are there any characters out there that has the pronunciation ㄌㄩㄣ (lün)? Google mostly reveals ㄌㄩㄣˊ, which seems to probably be some sort of approximation for 倫. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.126.241.139 (talk) 01:05, 10 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It seems that ㄌㄩㄣ is either some kind of non-standard spelling or transcription of Cantonese lyun rather than Mandarin sound; in either case, it doesn't belong here. And since nobody addressed this for almost 2 years, I'm removing it.

I have cross-checked this table with The Manual of the Phonetic Symbols of Mandarin Chinese (國語注音符號手冊) which is somewhat official and has a similar table broken down further by tones. In the manual there is no ㄉㄧㄚ (dia) and no ㄌㄩㄣ (lün), but it has ㄌㄩㄢ (ㄌㄩㄢˊ lüán and ㄌㄩㄢˇ lüǎn). ㄉㄧㄚ seems to be quite rare, but various sources have ㄉㄧㄚˇ (diǎ) for 嗲 and 𪦕, so I'm leaving it be. ㄌㄩㄢ is easily attested in numerous places including CNS data and Wiktionary, so I'm undoing Special:Diff/455185993 to restore ㄌㄩㄢ together with wording explaining why it should be included here even if it's not in pinyin table. — mwgamera (talk) 06:36, 5 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]