Talk:Youssef Bey Karam

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Biography: Politics and Government

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Lebanon Mid‑importance

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Military history: Biography / Middle East

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Referencing and citation: criterion not met Coverage and accuracy: criterion not met Structure: criterion met Grammar and style: criterion met Supporting materials: criterion met

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Importance of the subject

For many, Youssef Beik Karam is an important figure in the chain of statesmen who contributed to the creation of modern Lebanon. I will cite the five important figures. The first is Fakhr-al-Din II who planted the seeds of the Lebanese particularism and who encouraged Druze and Maronites to unite their efforts. He knew how to profit from the relationships of Maronite with the Western world to get support against the Ottoman empire. The second is Emir Youssef Al Shihabi in that he started in the second half of the 18th Century the reduction of the powers of the local sheikhs who prospered during the vacuum created after the death of Fakhr-al-Din in 1635 and somewhat reunited the Lebanon of Fakhr-al-Din. The third is Bachir Chehab II who ruled rather ruthlessly, continuing the action of his predecessor, practically eliminitaing the sheikhs system. Tanios Chahine is the fourth, he did in Keserwan what the Shihabis princes did in the Chouf/Metn and in Jbeil / Batroun. Youssef Karam is in the same tradition. Through his nationalistic approach, he contributed in North Lebanon to the creation of a new political elite based on merit. He also somewhat contributed to the creation of the Qa'immaqamiyatain regime and then Mutassarifiah regime, that gave birth later to the Greater Lebanon. youcroft (talk) 21:15, 14 April 2008 (UTC)—Preceding unsigned comment added by Yellaban (talk • contribs) 21:10, 14 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This is a very interesting history. However, please read the WikiProject's importance scale criteria. A high-importance article is defined as one which "Most readers will have some knowledge of the subject". It may be the case that most readers in Lebanon have some knowledge of who this person is, but I don't think that most readers in the world will have ever heard of them. For instance, the example of a high importance article is the Lebanese Civil War, which is probably much more known that this individual. That was my thinking at least. ← George^[talk] 09:10, 15 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed move to Youssef Bey Karam

Please state the reasons you would like to move the article to Youssef Bey Karam. If the reasons are acceptable, I'll ask for it be moved by an admin you can replace Youssef Bey Karam, this will keep the article's history intact. For the record the reason User:Saroufim1 can't move the article is that you need to be confirmed. Callanecc (talk • contribs) talkback (etc) template appreciated. 14:12, 14 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Neutrality issue

Youssef Karam is unquestionably a pivotal figure in the history of Lebanon, nevertheless the man had his own agenda and a larger than life ego. All his skirmishes (described here as great battles) and all his machinations aimed only at promoting himself to become the Maronite ruler of a Maronite principality aka Lebanon. The article is written in the tone of a folk tale, the kind my grandfather told. The tone and the POV pushing here is unacceptable, I need the consent of a couple editors before introducing the real facts into this article. It is very hard to accept that one of our national heros was only an arriviste who did more harm than good to the Maronite cause because of his ill-placed aspirations. The latest and most objective historian to write about him is Carol Hakim, here's a link to her book The Origins of the Lebanese National Idea: 1840–1920, and a couple others too Lebanon: War and Politics in a Fragmented Society and a Turkish scholar also The Long Peace: Ottoman Lebanon, 1861-1920 Truth is above all, at any cost -Elias Z 12:29, 22 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

As a visiting Wikipedian (who came to this article after seeing the portrait of Youssef Bey Karam in a Lebanese restaurant), I would agree that the article is insufficiently objective. I would support an attempt to base it more on referenced scholarly works. Mrmedley (talk) 03:01, 3 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Moved. EdJohnston (talk) 23:11, 23 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Youssef Boutros Karam → Youssef Bey Karam – This is the grand-uncle of Youssef Salim Karam. So people won't get confused between. Thank You. --Relisted. Armbrust ^{The Homunculus} 14:11, 13 May 2014 (UTC) Saroufim1 (talk) 16:46, 5 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Translation to Arabic

We need to translate this wiki page into ARABIC — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.110.118.6 (talk) 20:31, 31 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

New Page in Arabic

As Youssef Bey Karam and his origin are Lebanese and Arabic, we need to create/start about him in the Arabic language based on the information from the Youssef Bey Karam Foundation. It's good to have a page in English and French, but we need to start a new one in Arabic. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Saroufim1 (talk • contribs) 14:09, 13 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]