Talk:Willie Brown (politician)
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"Critical" section needs work before it goes in.
[edit]The section labeled "Critical" looks like a smear job, and may be libelous. It may be factual, but needs to be fleshed out and fully sourced before it can go in an article. I've commented it out until somebody who knows more about Brown and isn't pushing an agenda can work on it. !melquiades 18:56, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
The parts not in the section labeled "Critical" look like a pump job, and may be echoing the self-serving press releases from Brown over the years. It may be factual, but needs to be fleshed out and fully sourced for alternative interpretations of the facts before it can go in an article. For example, characterizing Brown's architecturally inappropriate remodeling of City Hall as heroically spearheading needed repairs and upgrades. 98.255.201.201 (talk) 22:11, 16 July 2013 (UTC)50-year resident of SF
!melquiades, The below were all sourced and were the topic of many radio shows, newspaper articles. 1.If you can provide evidence that Miss Carolyn Carpeneti was indeed doing 100% city work in that office then by all means contact the San Francisco Chronicle. Please take the time to read the articles cited. 2.As far as pushing an Agenda?...... Hey, they don't call him Slick Willie because of these entries which are factual and cited. 3. He has admitted that on live TV that he is the father of Miss Carolyn Carpeneti's child. The records as to all the details are sealed as are all child related records but he hasn't exactly been quiet about it. 4.Oh, and this is not a smear campaign, just facts that are there. As far as libelous? Well, if I had made it up, there wasn't a child, no office or articles to cite yes, but the articles are all there. Let us be real and admit that the man has a colorful life and he has even upset some folks within his own party.
So, I have no agenda but I don't think it would be honest to omit his colorful life while documenting every detail of the Monica affair with Bill Clinton. There shouldn't be "Special" standards for Willie Brown....I do believe this is one reason so many voted for term limits. Jessie Jackson doesn't receive specail treatment and his issues are well known and documented. That is one reason so many still admire Jessie and Clinton regardless of the bumps on the road, they (Bill Clinton and Jessie Jackson) can still awe the people with their message.
Removed items:
- Carolyn Carpeneti and Mayor Willie Brown Had a daughter in 2001 while still married to his long time spouse.[1]
- The San Francisco Chronicle reported that Carolyn Carpeneti had been paid at least $2.33 million by nonprofit groups and political committees controlled by then Mayor WIlie Brown and his friends in a period of five years.[2]
- 1998, Brown arranged for Carpeneti to obtain a rent-free office in the city-owned Bill Graham Civic Auditorium. She moved out after the San Francisco Chronicle began to inquire about the use of the office.[3]
- Fajita Gate During his tenure
- Cronyism allegations have followed Willie Brown’s tenure as San Francisco mayor with Kimiko Burton-Cruz being the most visible as reported by the San Francisco Chronicle[4].
So, do read them (do say how many would be enough.....sources that is) and then we can discuss the re-insertion of them unless you want to take a poll on special treatment for Willie on Wikipedia. Oh, please tell me too what is it he does as TV co-host?....political commentator? Peace TalkAbout 19:30, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
- I don't actually know anything about Willie Brown (which is why I was looking him up; he was mentioned in a newspaper article). He may be the worst human being on the face of the earth for all I know; I'm not trying to defend him. It was just a very poorly written section. You don't need my permission to fix the section and reinstate it -- just (1) make sure it is encyclopedic in tone, and doesn't read like a partisan diatribe (as the old entry did), and (2) is properly footnoted, using the sources you gave, and doesn't venture beyond the facts of the sources into POV material or speculation. In other words, it just needs to adhere to Wikipedia's standards. It sounds like you hate this guy a bunch, so that may take some self-discipline on your part, but give it a go. Obviously, the page should reflect the controversy surrounding him -- but it should keep itself above that controversy. !melquiades 06:27, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
- I rewrote the section, in what I believe to be a more encyclopedic tone (I like prose over lists, anyway). I also removed the Fajitagate reference, as Brown isn't mentioned in that article, so I don't think it had much impact on him. I also removed a lot of the section headings, as one paragraph sections are way too small. Please have a look and see if these changes are accecptable.
- Looks good to me! !melquiades 17:42, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
- !melquiades,
- Yes, it looks good to me too! As to the Fajitagate he was in office at the time and was not pro-active which led to numerous complaints...I thought the article mentioned he was in office (Mayor).... As to your question above: I believe elected officials need to be accountable and transparent. When this is not the case it leaves people disenfranchised as they do not want to participate in the electoral process. When participation drops we find that civil liberties go next. Cheers!TalkAbout 19:05, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
Aside from this discussion of what's libelous or not (and I don't think that the current text is in the least), I was surprised, when reading this, that the "criticisms" section was so focused on potentially shady relationships. Brown was also criticized plenty for his politics, particularly what many considered an intense harshness and punitive approach to the homeless. For that matter, he was even pied for it (see http://bioticbakingbrigade.org/communique110798.html ). I have minimal experience with Wikipedia editing, so I don't want to take a lot of time to write something that may not meet the community standards. But it would definitely improve the piece. -Matt
- I'm no expert either, so don't let that hold you back. Be bold, and have a go! If you are worried about meeting community standards, you probably will. Basically, use common sense: it should read like an encyclopedia; it should stick to facts and not take sides; anything that seems like it needs to cite a source should. Read the policies and guidelines for more detail if you like — but do contribute! !melquiades 17:42, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
PR Talk
[edit]Does anyone else think this article reads like it was written by PR Staff? The continued emphasis on his supposed Muni funding increases and other bullet points are particularly disconcerting.
He was a shoeshiner, so why remove the category?
[edit]As a perusal of this article suggests, Brown was a shoeshiner at a young age. The article on shoeshiners shows many other prominent people have been shoeshiners. So, why remove the category? It isn't an insult. He was literally a shoeshiner. Hoktiwe (talk) 15:45, 12 April 2019 (UTC)
- @Hoktiwe: Because it is trivia and not a defining characteristic of this subject, nor of other subjects where you have been adding the category. See WP:CATDEF (as I indicated in my edit summary when I reverted your edit). General Ization Talk 15:49, 12 April 2019 (UTC)
Not dead yet
[edit]Saw someone had edited the page to past tense following the death of Raiders hall of famer Willie Brown. The football player and the former Mayor of San Francisco are not the same person. The politician Willie Brown is still very much alive (at the time of this edit, at least). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sunnyvalian (talk • contribs) 22:05, 22 October 2019 (UTC)
Graduation date
[edit]Date of Mayor Brown’s Graduation from SF State should be 1955, not 1995. PTJ333 (talk) 03:27, 19 November 2022 (UTC)
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