Talk:Waymo/Archives/2015

Driverless?

Unless the car is operating itself 100% it isn't a driverless car - even if a person was to give it a destination only, they have operated the car and therefore are the driver. --ZhuLien 2:00, 22 February 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 27.32.141.11 (talk)

Perhaps they were "driving" the car for the millisecond when they chose the destination. The industry-accepted definition is that choosing the final destination doesn't count as driving.Owen214 (talk) 10:22, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

and when I'm driving and decide to stop while the car is still moving and use my mobile phone and the car crashes I can claim I'm not the driver for that moment I wasn't driving. ZhuLien 66.249.80.203 (talk) 09:13, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

And, more importantly, when I get in the back of my limousine and tell my chauffeur where we are to go, I am not driving in any way shape or form. I suggest you take a quick course on common sense, in your world there would be a factory producing driverless cars that could not be moved, even off the production line for fear of you declassifying them! :) Chaosdruid (talk) 20:05, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

Self-Driving Misnomer section has been removed twice already by ColinClark and Mdann52, and reinstated both times by the original contributor: 70.39.231.187. The section tries to make the case that the labels "driverless" and "self-driving" are incorrect, and that the cars are (or could become) network controlled. The section is vague ('suggests an increase in autonomy') and incoherent ('under the control of persons other than' the occupants), and appeals to future possible developments rather than the actual technology. The cited articles and video don't substantiate the claim that the names are incorrect. Removing this section (once again). Oliver Crow (talk) 05:59, 30 July 2013 (UTC)

The car has a driver and is therefore not driverless. The driver is the "system," which is not autonomous (or self-driving) because it depends on external networked systems such as the GPS network besides others. The nomer "driverless" or "self-driving" are just wrong because the car is neither driverless, nor does it drive itself, and ironically it will effectively prohibit a person from driving the car themselves (or being "self-driven") because it is under the control of the "system" and the human occupant has been reduced to a "supplicant" of the system and those who actually control how it automates transportation.

The profound significance of this is how centralized/network-system control of the transportation system is critical to "turnkey tyranny." I won't explain turnkey tyranny -- just look it up. If "driverless cars" are presented to the public conscious as "autonomous" or "self-driving" meaning they're independently controlled, then there's no concern, no alarm. But if in fact they have the ability to be and are in fact centrally-controlled, then their prevalence that comes about under the guise of "safety" is nothing less than the subjugation of a civilization's entire transportation system to a central authority that can at any moment decide to use that power to oppress the people, squash dissent, and render any resistance immobile.

The bottom line is if you allow this car to be called "driverless" or "self-driving" (suggesting it drives itself) then you are complicit with the conspiracy to fool the public into conceding power over the transportation system to a malevolent driver under the guise of technology and safety. Mark my word, these cars have a driver. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.39.231.187 (talk • contribs)

Ok, I see what you're saying. But do you have any sources to back up what you're saying? Wikipedia is supposed to reflect what sources say about a topic, we are not supposed to insert our own original ideas. - MrOllie (talk) 15:00, 30 July 2013 (UTC)

The car is officially a "Google self-driving car." "Self-driving car" is exclusively the language used by Google. It's on the side of every vehicle. It's in all their official communications.[1][2][3] I think the title of the article should be changed to what Google uses. Why should it not be? Pdxuser (talk) 17:04, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

Style ought to be cleaned up

Several times the laws passed by states are repeated with citations. This is a little repetitive but is probably the just result of people only working on sections and not reading the entire article for clarity. Some cleanup should be done.--Varkman (talk) 01:41, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

Own design?

See here:

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn25637-google-unveils-design-for-its-own-selfdriving-car.html

This isn't mentioned in the article at all. How much is known about these? I cannot imagine they developed the entire car completely in-house, they must have an automotive industry partner. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.243.199.239 (talk) 09:00, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

@84.243.199.239: Have you seen a picture of their own design? They may have had a manufacturing partner, but I doubt it was anyone in the automotive industry. It's not hard to build a small car - college students do it all the time. --Ahecht (TALK
PAGE) 15:35, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

Incorrect and/or Outdated Information

The $150,000 figure for the cost of 'equipment' is wrong. "The cluster of radars and lasers that sits above the car costs about $75,000 today" http://www.wsj.com/articles/google-sees-self-drive-car-on-road-within-five-years-1421267677 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 12usn12 (talk • contribs) 16:17, 27 March 2015 (UTC)

+++

Sebastian Thrun is no longer leading the project and does not work at Google anymore. Chris Urmson is the new project lead, which you can see on his LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/pub/chris-urmson/3/227/539 The following change is recommended:

Replace: The project is currently being led by Google engineer Sebastian Thrun, former director of the Stanford Artificial Intelligence Laboratory and co-inventor of Google Street View. Thrun's team at Stanford created the robotic vehicle Stanley which won the 2005 DARPA Grand Challenge and its US$2 million prize from the United States Department of Defense.[2] The team developing the system consisted of 15 engineers working for Google, including Chris Urmson, Mike Montemerlo, and Anthony Levandowski who had worked on the DARPA Grand and Urban Challenges.[3]

With: The project is currently being led by Google engineer Chris Urmson, former professor at the Robotics Institute at Carnegie Mellon University, where his research focused on motion planning and perception for robotic vehicles. During his time at Carnegie Mellon, Urmson served as the Director of Technology for the team that won the 2007 DARPA Urban Challenge [source: https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/DARPA_Grand_Challenge_(2007)] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2620:0:1000:5E02:8CC1:21DD:CF77:906F (talk) 19:35, 20 July 2015 (UTC)

+++

After the sentence beginning "In May 2014..." suggest adding: In June 2015 Google announced that they had begun testing the prototype on Mountain View public roads. [source: http://www.mv-voice.com/news/2015/06/25/the-robo-car-revolution-hits-mountain-view-streets]

+++

Regarding the sentence: "Google plans to make these cars available to the public in 2020."

The 2020 date has not been confirmed. Here are two sources for information on the timeline: http://www.popsci.com/cars/article/2013-09/google-self-driving-car and http://recode.net/2015/03/17/google-self-driving-car-chief-wants-tech-on-the-market-within-five-years/

Suggest changing text to the following: In September 2012 at a ceremony where Governor Jerry Brown signed California's self-driving-car bill into law, Google co-founder Sergey Brin said "you can count on one hand the number of years until ordinary people can experience this." When asked about the timeline more recently, Chris Urmson has said that his team is committed to making sure his son, who is 11 years old, doesn’t have to get his driver’s license.

+++

Regarding the sentence: "Google has also developed their own custom vehicle, which is assembled by Roush Enterprises and uses equipment from Bosch, ZF Lenksysteme, LG, and Continental."

This makes it sound like Google is only working with them, but in fact they have many other partners. Suggest adding "among others" at the end of the sentence.

+++

Regarding the sentence: "Google's robotic cars have about $150,000 in equipment including a $70,000 LIDAR system."

This citation does not confirm the total amount of equipment, nor has Google ever confirmed it. Suggest removing.

+++

Regarding the sentence: "Google's vehicles have traversed San Francisco's Lombard Street, famed for its steep hairpin turns, and through city traffic."

It's important to clarify that these are Google's Lexus vehicles, since their new prototype vehicles have not done this.

+++

Regarding the sentence: "The system provides an override that allows a human driver to take control of the car by stepping on the brake or turning the wheel, similar to cruise control systems already found in many cars today."

It's important to clarify that this system is for Google's Lexus vehicles, since the new prototype is not designed to have a steering wheel and pedals.

+++

Regarding the sentence: "As of June 2015, Google's 23 self-driving cars have been involved in 12 minor traffic accidents on public roads..."

It should be changed to "As of July 2015, Google's 23 self-driving cars have been involved in 14 minor traffic accidents on public roads..." per Google's monthly reports: http://www.google.com/selfdrivingcar/reports/

+++

Regarding the sentence: "Google has partnered with suppliers including Bosch, ZF Lenksysteme, LG, Continental, and Roush, and has contacted manufacturers including General Motors, Ford, Toyota, Daimler and Volkswagen."

Google has not confirmed this. It would be more accurate to say: "Google has partnered with suppliers including Bosch, ZF Lenksysteme, LG, Continental, and Roush, and news reports have speculated that Google has contacted manufacturers including General Motors, Ford, Toyota, Daimler and Volkswagen."

+++

Regarding the sentence: "The second bill will provide an exemption from the ban on distracted driving to permit occupants to send text messages while sitting behind the wheel."

It's important to clarify that this bill was about texting while sitting in a self-driving car, not texting while driving. Suggest changing to: "The second bill will an exemption from the ban on distracted driving to permit occupants to send text messages while sitting behind the wheel of a self-driving car."

+++

Regarding the sentence: "In August 2013, news reports surfaced about Robo-Taxi, a driverless vehicle from Google.[44] These reports re-appeared again in early 2014."

It's important to clarify that these were speculations; Google never confirmed this. Suggest changing to: "In August 2013, news reports speculated about Robo-Taxi, a driverless vehicle from Google. These speculations re-appeared again in early 2014."

Outdated Limitations?

The Limitations section is based on an article from Aug. 2014. It mentions temporary traffic lights and identifying police officers as imitations. However, a Mar. 2015 TED talk by Chris Urmson shows how the car can identify both situations https://www.ted.com/talks/chris_urmson_how_a_driverless_car_sees_the_road — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.117.136.8 (talk) 12:36, 16 August 2015 (UTC)

Page name

Google self-driving car more accurately describes the content and is the more commonly searched term. I propose dropping the Project and removing the capitalisation in order to make it less like a corporate PR title and more like a description of a thing. Any objections or thoughts? Btljs (talk) 08:56, 8 December 2015 (UTC)

Just realised that this page redirects here. Propose swapping Google Self-Driving Car Project to redirect to Google self-driving car instead of vice versa. Btljs (talk) 09:03, 8 December 2015 (UTC)